https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MU JWIOnURQ >R51 Gen 2

Fuck, man. These things are still a giant shitshow. Just look at the disassembly/reassembly. Everything about this POS is fucking pathetic.

Interesting idea, terribad execution.

>>31612185
Why would anyone have thought Remington would get it right the second time?

>>31612123
The grip safety also is decent at chewing up the web of the hand either from the seam it creates or otherwise just the lack of any kind of grip material in that area.

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>Remington

w-was the original good?

>>31614505
Nope
That's why they made the Gen 2

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>>31614505
This original was alright for the time.

The R51 was shitty enough that it was recalled and pulled off the market after about a year and this is what they came out with when they pledged to fix it. Still shit, as expected.

It's sad that they can't get it working because the locking system has some (mostly packaging) advantages vs tilting barrel.

>>31614585
So... the patent must be expired by now yeah? Why haven't any intrepid entrepreneurs taken it upon themselves to make their version of it?

>>31614626
The firearms market is weird. The work to scale it up from .380 to .45 is also already done, the Model 53 was looked at to supplement (and replace for the Navy\ Marine Corps) the 1911 but wasn't purchased after WW1 ended. Since the civilians market was primarily 1911s and revolvers until the mid70s, and simple blow back pocket pistols were cheaper, it pretty much stalled out autopistol development in America.

Pretty much it's a case of good enough is the enemy of better. The simplified browning action is robustly developed and the defacto standard for pistols.

Somebody may pick up a similar system now that civilian demand is there, but after the R51, I doubt it. A lot of the R51s flaws would be overlooked if it worked as it does allow a slimmer profile and lower bore axis at the cost of a bit of additional complexity, but Remington.

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>>31614626
>>31615097
Shit, now that you have me thinking about this, I really can't figure out how they've fucked with the Model 51 design enough to end up with that slide.

Here's a disassembled model 53\ Remington 1917. Even that is slimmer than the chunkiness modern Remington has going on.

I've also got a side by side of the Model 51 and an R51, but thought the differences were just .380 to 9mm, but there is some next level "engineering" to blame for this shit.

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>>31615222
Not sure what's happening at Remington. But the more I think on it, the more I want someone competent to work on the Model 51.

>>31615243
This

>>31612123
I want to hate the R51, but
>MAC
I can't take anything he says seriously.

>>31612123
Remington should have just cancelled the project after the Gen 1

>>31615517
What's wrong with him? I'm not subscribed because frankly I have no interest in watching reviews of expensive shit I can't afford and tactical shit I don't want, but what's your beef with him?

>>31615592
For a time, he was putting the Tavor into every video he made. Even in his Kalashnikov tribute video, at the very end, he just pulled out a Tavor and tested it even though the video was supposed to be about Kalashnikovs.

He's better now, but it was very annoying to hear him go, "TAVOR, TAVOR, TAVOR."

>>31615097
There is a reason why hesitation lock never picked up, even in the civilian small arms world.

Browning action, Rotating barrel, delayed piston and roller locking for pistols in that order ended up being more popular alternative actions for a reason.

>>31612123
The only good gun Remington makes is the R1 1911.

The 870 used to be good but then freedom group fucked that up

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>>31616002
RIP DuPont era Remington

>>31616081
You got that right mane, I've been on a vintage Remington kick lately. Can't get enough. Kind of ironic I'm looking at a 742 Woodsmaster right now, one of the few old models that had quality/durability issues.

>>31615972
Yeah, I touched on that a bit. It is more mechanically complex, but the primary reason for the Browning action becoming ubiquitous is the 1911 being adopted. If the Model 53 replaced it in Navy\MC inventories as planned instead of being called off with the war's end, you would see the hesitation lock action being used more. I'm not saying it would be as popular as the Browning system as the modern widespread use of tilting barrel is more due to\ descended from the HiPower's (and then SIG P220 for most modern guns) simplified system, but the reasons for hesitation lock disappearing (and really the reasons behind most successful firearm design) are economic, not mechanical.

There were a lot of other firearms from that era that disappeared in that era due to the civilian pistol market being focused on revolvers and that whole great depression thing completely killing the civilian arms industry (as well as increased regulatory overhead and taxes in 1934).

I'm not saying it's the best overall action, but it has merits, especially for concealed carry.

If you know of some theoretical flaw in the mechanism go ahead and lay it out there, but market success isn't really an indicator of what's "best", just what people buy.

>>31616194
Go for the 760 pump models if you want reliability, the autoloaders never worked 110% of the time where my 3006 pump still takes deer today.

I think they overreached on how many different calibers and rounds they could cram into the same operating system.

>>31616236
Fist of all, Overall weight and the requirement of a strong material in the frame locking recess is a big negative. In a time where your standard concealed carry single stack 9x19 weighs in the area of a single pound.

Second, the action has never been tested for longevity or reliability like other actions have. Sure the original R51 exists but the round that it does shoot is relatively low pressure and can work just as well as a simple blowback. Once scaled up it needed to be redesigned, Rudd himself admits this.

The second run of 1911's was way more likely to happen than the Model 53 ever going into service.

>>31616567
An addition to my second point, the R51 also had a reputation of cracked bolts, something that really doesn't happen on browning actions.

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>>31616611
That has more to do with construction\ the individual weapon design than an intrinsic problem with the action, but could explain why the R51 has a bit of a beefier bolt.

Also, can totally happen on browning actions, have a Glock with a fucked breech block

>>31616795
Cracked breechfaces can happen to almost any design if the wall is thin enough like on the Glock. This picture means nothing and you have not actually made a valid point.

I am talking about actual load bearing surfaces getting cracked like the locking lugs, Which is know to happen on the original Remington 51.

>>31616567
>Fist of all, Overall weight and the requirement of a strong material is a big negative

Weight is comparable to a Browning action pistol if not lighter, there really aren't any issues with materials, can't be zamac, but we're not talking titanium

>Second, the action has never been tested for longevity or reliability like other actions have

Ignoring the military trials of the Model 53, but you're pretending that the original 1911s didn't have issues here, further refinement can easily happen

>Once scaled up it needed to be redesigned, Rudd himself admits this.

See model 53. Of fucking course it needs to be redesigned, but it was done.

>The second run of 1911's was way more likely to happen than the Model 53 ever going into service.

But the Navy actually ordered the pistols to replace all 1911s by the end of trials, not to supplement them. Production was just too expensive with the war ending.

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>>31616860
>I am talking about actual load bearing surfaces getting cracked like the locking lugs

Oh, never mind, yeah the 1911 never had issues like that. The "no point" was exactly my point, there can be issues with construction or the design of a specific part without invalidating the operating concepts behind the design.

>>31612185
even if it was flawless I wouldn't buy it because of that disassembly/ reassembly procedure

>>31616879
All striker fired plastic fantastics weigh half a pound less than the bulky R51, even with an aluminum frame. The scaled up 53 turned into a expensive shitshow that worked but not well enough to justify it replacing the 1911. This is reality.

>>31613186
Which is hilariously sad because they basically had the original design, which works.

>>31617094
Worked in 380. They tried to scale it up to 9mm and failed hard.

>>31615607
And this affects his testing and review on a handgun, how?

>>31612123
It's a lot better than the first generation was.

>>31612185
>>31616948

You guys plan on field stripping your guns under enemy fire when you're innawoods fighting the forces of Hillary's Rough SJWs?

Not defending it. It's just different. I don't care for my CZ's takedown but I do it when I need to.

>>31617174

Did you actually watch the video?

That shit is fucking terrible. There is no excuse for it to be so poorly designed.

>>31617157
they had two years to fix it and it seems like every person who actually bought a V2 has at least one complaint about build quality, jamming or just issues in general.

No thanks.

>>31617032
>but not well enough to justify it replacing the 1911.

Unless you're the Navy, you are missing the part where the 53 was ordered by the navy to replace all pistols, including the 1911. The contract fell apart due to financial problems, no issue with the guns.

>All striker fired plastic fantastics weigh half a pound less than the bulky R51

I am in no way defending the R51. but you're comparing metal to plastic. Metal is heavier.

And again the R51 being shit has little to do with the viability of the hesitation lock system.

You're comparing it against guns using a system with a century of development and refinement and were designed by capable engineers. I'm saying that had the model 53 purchase gone through, we would be seeing refined hesitation lock weapons today although they would likely be more expensive and less popular than tilting barrel guns.

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>>31617174
CZs are easy as fuck to strip, I do it at least once a week.

>>31617377
It never really happened. This is the simple reality. They won a test in 1918 with prototype models but the contract never actually materialized enough to actually "fall apart". Production never started and tooling was never made for mass production.

By then there were enough 1911's in production to go around and the whole idea was dropped completely.

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Some tripfag bought a first gen one and posted pictures of it

Dumping the glorious build quality of another fine Remington product

>>31617456
How deep into the spectrum are you?

No one claimed it happened, the war ended so the Navy wasn't going to foot the bill for pistols. A bid was accepted and then not funded, that is pretty much the definition of a military contract falling apart.

You're pointing to them not being commercially viable as evidence that the method of operation isn't viable.

I know spergs have trouble with hypothetical situations, so I'm going to have to walk away from this now.

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Last one

Doesn't it just ooze quality?

>>31617572
The Remington 53 was quite simply a failure, it never found a market and was never produced outside of prototypes.

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>>31617655

>>31612123
I want this so bad, I want it to work, but there is unanimity that it is a Remington.

>>31617720
Just continue living in denial.

>>31617130
Because he's a jew loving SHILL.

>>31617598
Did someone blow a load into that?

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>>31614505
The original all-steel pistol from the 20th century? Yes, it was available in .32ACP and .380ACP, with the 'Hesitation-Lock', it was very easy to rack the slide, and with light recoil, the gun was thin, and with modern defensive ammo, it would probably be quite good for carry (Ian from ForgottenWeapons apparently carries one from time to time), Lehigh makes some copper bullets that really helps the .32ACP and .380ACP give good penetration.

The old Remington 51 worked.
The modern Remington R51 in 9mm Luger is a horrible imitation of the original Pedersen design and really gives you a bad impression of Hesitation-Locking.

>>31617943
Yeah.. they should have just reintroduced the original. Pocket pistols are a market winner.

The R51 is like the new Star Wars or Fallout 4. I want to like it more than I actually like it.

>>31615243
>modern Pedersen pistol, maybe outright call it "New Pedersen"
>all steel makes it durable and makes for easier recoil
>available with Crimson Trace style grips and plain wood panel grips
>available in .32ACP, .380ACP, 7.65mm Luger (probably as a target model), and 9mm Luger
>available in full-size and compact

I would also like to see if a double-stack variant could be made, allowing for at least 10 or 12 shots of each of these calibers, it would really be a phenomenal light carry piece then, light recoil, easy handling, some capacity, and with modern defensive ammo. I'm thinking something close to the realm of the Beretta Cheetah pistols

>>31618056
I want this but to happen with the P7 and it's gas delayed blowback system.

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>>31619209
There's already the P7M13, which holds 13+1 rounds of 9mm Luger, being gas-delayed blowback and all.

I'd argue that's the best compact 9mm pistol that you could carry, though it's rare and expensive, and have fun paying for the magazines.

Pic related was on Gunbroker, stated to be New In Box, it has a nickel plating and comes with two spare magazines, it starts out at $2700, I really wish H&K would have kept making these things as exclusive carry guns, rather than stop, and them turning into super expensive collector's items.

Wouldn't an easy fix to the nose dive issue be to get rid of that piece at the front of the feed ramp? That's where it hangs up. I haven't seen another gun with mags that have a piece of metal directly in front of the next feeding round.

>>31615972
>a reason
If you're going to say this then please describe the reason. I read this "we do ____ for a reason" all the time and it's usually just people arguing for the sake of arguing like "I have no idea but I'm trying to sound correct"

>>31617174
No, but did you see the video?
That's absolutely retarded.
Yeah the CZ-75 sucks to take down because that pin is stupid stiff, but it's cake compared to this.

>>31620276
Please, be my guest in searching for the hard facts behind the matter yourself, for some reason.

>>31621123
It is what it is.

>>31621123
It really works out that way in the end.

>>31619209
Unless you make a P7M8 and M13 with a polymer frame devoid of a squeeze cock mechanism, you would bleed money just like HK did

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>>31623315
Fine with me.

>>31619729
Yeah, I know about the M13, good luck finding one under collectors price. Even then who would carry it knowing its value?

This is why a new production slim poly frame 1.5 stack magazine would be really nice. If you worked out proper heat isolation it might even be a fun gun to shoot more than a couple magazines out of too.

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>>31624556
But the P9 was already a thing, it was their top of the line pistol for the decade before the P7.

>>31612123
Cool looking gun, total disappointment.

>>31625500
Didn't stop them from reusing the volkspistole name