alright /k/ is the lee enfield a good SHTF/bugout gun? it's

The best equipment is what you have when you need it.

I will say that the Lee enfield served as a main battle rifle for many countries for a long time. Take that as you will.

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>>31602336
Lee Enfield
>Possibly the smoothest/fastest standard-issue bolt action ever made
>10-round capacity when most manually-operated rifles are 5-6
>Clips for fast reloads
>Pull-through and oil can in buttstock

If No.4

>God-tier long-radius aperture sights
>Thick free floating barrel (thicker than Mk.III*'s barrel)

If No.5

>Something like 7lb unloaded, perhaps 7.5lb loaded
>Handy as fuck
>Flash hider
>Long-radius aperture sights

You've got arguably the best bolt action on the planet... you're good to go, anon. If you have a No.4 (pic related) then you have what I consider the GREATEST standard-issue bolt action ever devised.

If you have a fuckton of ammo. Yes. Otherwise no. In a bugout situation what you really want is something with plentiful ammo. Otherwise just stock up on British .303

>>31602531
>Lee Hand Press
>.303 die set
>Repriming die
>Lyman 500 Scale
>Bullet puller (the one that looks like a hammer is cheap and light)
>Box of CCI Large Rifle Primers
>Stock up on .312 cal bullets
>Get enough brass and clips to fill a bandolier or two

You're good to go. Find ammo? Pull the bullet, use the powder in .303 ammo (just make sure you don't overcharge), boom. If you find 7.62x54r, you can reuse the bullet as well as the powder (I would advise using ALL the powder in it). 7.62x39 could simply have the powder poured in a .303 casing, the bullet seated, and you're good to go. Primers are light, small, and cheap (cheapest component of ammo, in fact) so stock up on that.

You can now make ammo literally anywhere that there is a flat surface and light. Lee Enfield is manually operated, so it doesn't matter if the cartridge is underpowered, in fact you can make it as weak as .32 H&R Magnum or 7.62x38r and it'll still function perfectly. It'll just lack in long-range accuracy as well as penetration (which only really matters if your target is wearing armour).

But yeah, unless you have all that siht, .303 is pretty rare in the US I hear. In Canada, you can find it at most any Walmart, Canadian Tire, or gun store. Practically as common as commercial .308, really.

>>31602336
Nope.

in shtf, get a gun that is light, easy to clean/repair and not shooting literal snowflake of an ammo

In strictly shtf situation, consider getting yourself either a scout rifle or break action shotgun

>>31602336
You'll be fine, but you might find yourself wishing it was in a more common caliber, and had more common parts. It's potent enough for all medium game, and will outlast your ass.

>>31602581
I direct you to
>>31602578

Also, it might be snowflake ammo where you life (I assume US), but if you preper accordingly then you can make the most of just about any firearm save for a black powder muzzle loader. You want snowflake ammo? Good luck finding black powder in the event you run out.

If you want a firearm that will have plentiful ammunition, then you basically need to go for something that uses a cartridge currently in service meaning there's surplus ammo that's affordable and common, or 12 Gauge, .22lr, or one of the major pistol cartridges (9mm/.40/.45). Those are the most common sorts of ammo available, but not everyone has a firearm in that.

Get a portable press, the appropriate die set, repriming die, a scale that doesn't need batteries/electric charge, a bullet puller so you don't mar up bullets that might be useful, the proper primers, the proper casings, as well as something with which to carry your ammo, and you're good to go.

If you've got such equipment, then you could be outfitted with a God damn Martini-Henry in .455 Henry, and you won't run out of ammo as long as your bullets/primers hold out. You can get powder from whatever ammo you find. Find a box of .22lr? It'll be time consuming, but start wrenching those little bitty bullets off and pouring their little amounts of powder in your rifle cartridge. Don't need to get a full charge; use just a half charge and you can get twice as much ammo. Just keep your spare primers/bullets in mind, and keep any bullets that can be reused. .45 ACP/.45 Colt Long/.44 Magnum/.44 Special bullets might work with .455 Henry.

For bonus points, get a portable cast to make your own lead bullets. Just load your ammo to pistol or magnum strength, and you're good to go. Melt any found ammo down to get the lead and you can basically turn almost any ammo into the ammo YOU need as long as your brass holds up and you don't run out of primers.

>>31602624
.303 is plenty strong enough for moose as well, so in a pinch I'd also trust it to brown bear. Just hope that if it starts charging, there's enough distance to get a good few rounds on it, hopefully a lucky one in the heart or brain. Good thing the Lee bolt is capable of a faster rate of fire than a Mosin, Mauser, or pretty much any other bolt action rifle on the planet. Bayonet might be handy in such a situation. Receiving multiple .303 and then being stuck with a bayo? Pretty sure that'd fuck even a brown bear up pretty good, especially if it's a God tier P07 bayonet. What's the blade on that sucker... 17"? Basically a shortsword.

>>31602414
>clips
Lol

>>31602675
From 0 to 10 rounds in the mag within 5 seconds? Clips aren't as outdated as you might think. With 10 or less capacity, there's more advantage in having clips than spare mags. Clips are lighter, cheaper, and less cumbersome. Magazines will weigh significantly more, cost significantly more, create more bulk on your loadout, and won't really speed up your reload because you have to save your magazines. If you just drop them, you risk dirt/damage (like stepping on them) affecting reliability, not to mention you might lose track of where it was dropped and end up one magazine shorter, wishing you had some clips with which to replace it.

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Not OP but my no.5 is my only bolt action. I'm sure you'll be okay.

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>>31602675
noob

>>31602698
The fuck kind of rear sight is that? I've owned two no.5s but never seen a rear sight like that on one of them. Meant for marksmanship or something?

>>31602718
Gorgeous... and loading two clips don't cost twice as much time as loading one either.

Kar98k:
>Open the bolt
>Grab clip
>Place clip
>Push down
>Close bolt (Clip ejects automatically)

Lee Enfield

>Open bolt
>Grab clips (2)
>Place clip
>Push down
>Tab top of empty clip back while placing second clip (first clip will fall off)
>Place clip
>Push down
>Close bolt (clip ejects automatically)

M91/30

>Open bolt
>Grab clip
>Place clip
>Push down
>Remove clip (On rare occasions the clip pops off automatically but do not rely on this)
>Close bolt (clip does not eject automatically on Mosin rifles)

M1 Rifle

>Grab clip (bolt opens automatically when shot until empty)
>Place clip
>Push down (bolt usually falls automatically when hand comes away from clip)
>Push bolt forward or rack bolt (Not always necessary, but sometimes yes)

Mauser reload - 5 steps
Lee Enfield reload - 8 steps
Mosin reload - 6 steps
M1 Rifle - 3-4 steps

So the Lee Enfield reload might take twice as long or possibly even a little more than twice as long as an M1 Rifle reload.

>locks at the rear of the bolt

>>31602766
You know, the Enfield still works if you insert one clip

>>31602766
AR15

>Grab mag and eject it into hand (You don't want to risk damaging/losing it)
>Put back in your loadout
>Grab fresh mag
>Insert
>Drop bolt (Not necessary if a round is already chambered)

That said, if clips are all you have then you don't want to lose them. I don't think clips can be damaged as easily as mags can, but if they do get damaged it would be easy to fix. They'd be easier to lose, however. A bit of a conundrum, but my point remains; when we're just talking about 5-10 round capacity, the advantage in speed that a mag swap gets over a clip load is negligible to non-existant, leaving only the downside of weight/cost/bulk. Now if we're talking 20-30 round mags, then there's advantage to having both spare mags as well as clips rather than just clips alone.

In a situation where your 20-30+ capacity firearm can accept clips or detachable mags (Lee Enfield excluded as well as K31), then it's more advantageous to carry half your ammo in mags and half your ammo in clips rather than ALL your ammo in mags or ALL your ammo in clips.

>>31602782
Weaker action than Mosin or Mauser bolt to be sure, but it's plenty strong for the round it was intended, and that's what matters, especially considering you can hunt moose with said round.

>>31602786
Indeed, but you can carry 10 rounds in the mag. If it's empty, and if you're not pressed for time, might as well slam two clips in to top it up. It's not like it would take much longer if you juts grab the two clips at once. The only steps that would be doubled is placing the second clip and pushing the second clip's rounds down. You only open the bolt, grab clip(s), and close the bolt a total of one time. Pretty handy though... if you have ammo in the mag but it's 5 rounds or less, you can top it off with a clip. Extra 5 rounds to play with and it only cost perhaps, what, 3 seconds? Just like a Mauser reload, except you weren't at any point empty.

>>31602851
I remember a story I read about online about a WWI veteran's experiences. He fought for the Commonwealth because he had a Mk.III*, and said he obsessively kept it loaded. They were going to make a charge into No Man's Land so he opened the bolt up, brought a clip to the clip guide, and pushed down until it had no more give (mag was loaded). He didn't even look at the clip as he closed the bolt, but there was probably 2-3 rounds left on it. Didn't care, just wanted to get the rifle loaded so he was ready.

Not sure what the point of sharing this was, but thought I'd bring it up.

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>>31602851
"Muh moose"
Jesus fucking Christ you could at the least attempt to have a different argument.
Yeah no fucking shit a .30cal projectile can kill a moose, a fucking dildo could kill a moose. Hell EXISTING can kill a moose.
Fuck off

>>31602927
Would you suggest that .308 is meant for medium game?

>>31602955
Yeah, move those goal posts.
Good job.
It means nothing.
Moose an animal like all others
Can die by bullet no problem
GLOCK KILL MOOSE
Moose fuck

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What about the K31?

>>31603068
Jesus Christ, that's the most beautiful K31 I've ever seen. Those are great rifles. Still, might want portable reloading gear; 7.5x55 isn't the most common of cartridges, but I dare say the K31's bolt will take hotter loads than .the Lee bolt, even though it isn't as fast or as high capacity.

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>>31603148
K31s are beautiful rifles.

>>31603068
Nice rifle, but ammo isn't very common.

As far as Milsurp bolt-actions go, the Nugget is actually supreme in terms of ammo availability

I don't know what happened, but I see far more 7.62x54R than .303 or 8x57

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Yes

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>>31602719
Williams aperture sight

>>31602336
My SHTF rifle is either going to be my AR or my 98k that I'm going to have rebarreled to .308: I'm going to get a military contour 7.62 barrel and mount it to my 98k.

8mm is kill, and stupidly hard to find and way too expensive. .308 is literally everywhere, and I think a k98 in .308 is the perfect SHTF rifle.

I'll post pics when I eventually start this project.

>>31603576
... not adjustable for elevation?

>>31603618
Noice, but how about an AIA Lee Enfield? .308, detachable mags (Can use M1A mags I'm pretty sure), better sights, free floating barrel, and I'm pretty sure a sight mount comes standard with those AIA beauties, not to mention the smoother bolt for faster follow-up shots.

With practice, you can manage 2 shots per second 'rapid fire' in a pinch. Yeah I know, 2 shots per second is pretty slow, but for a bolt action that's bloody lightning.

>>31603670
It's fully adjustable for elevation and windage. Came with the rifle when I got it. I traded a shinola watch I found on the ground for the rifle.

>>31603439
>7.62x54r still in service
>.303 British essentially not mass-produced on a Military scale since the 1950s or so
>8mm Mauser not mass-produced on a Military scale since about 1945

Yeah both Lee Enfields and Kar98ks are still found on battlefields today, but I'm talking ammo production on a truly professional scale. Millions of rounds, pumped out by superpower nations, possibly even by multiple nations.

>>31602414
>arguably the best bolt action

The action is sloppy and loose. I can't believe it has to be said time and time again, but anything with a Mauser action is the best bolt action, hands down.

don't get me wrong, I LOVE the enfield. It has aesthetics, the sights are great and the bolt is smooth, but the action is nowhere near as strong or robust as a Mauser (or an Arisaka but those take meme cartridges).

>>31603689
How much adjustment for elevation? It looks like it's basically a fixed battle sight for 100m, but a really high quality one. I'm not talking minute adjustments of windage and elevation to zero it, but elevation adjustment for 200m+.

>>31602336

No. The Lee-Enfield is a great weapon, but .303 ammo availability is awful. The only bolt-action service rifle I would be comfortable using in SHTF is .30-06 because that shit is everywhere.

>>31603706
I'm not really too sure to be honest. I haven't adjusted it since I've bought it. I didn't wanna mess with it until I fully understand how to zero it.

>>31603670
>AIA Lee Enfield?
I have literally never heard of them in the US.

>Smoother bolt
Nice maymay. That might be beneficial to someone with literally no practice with either weapon, but I'm far more confident in the 98 system than any Enfield iteration. I also hate cock on close.

I appreciate the input though. I just feel "better" handling a 98k than any Enfield: it just feels a lot more rigid to me, and thus stronger.

>>31603696
>The action is sloppy and loose.

This. I feel like I hold and handle 4 or 5 totally shit and poorly fitted Enfields to every 1 Enfield that feels solid and trustworthy.

>>31603717
A Nugget would be a good alternative if you don't have a .30-06 rifle.

>>31603696
>Bolt sloppy and loose
The Lee Enfield is still wickedly accurate, ruggedly reliable, and as smooth as can be. Even cock-on-close Mauser bolts aren't as smooth as the Lee bolt due to its 60 degree bolt turn as apposed to the 90 degree bolt turn.

>Mauser action is the best
How so? It's slower than a Lee, Mauser rifles are generally 5 round capacity which is half that of the Lee, they generally have short-radius notch-and-post sights which are inferior to the No.4's long-radius aperture sights, and you generally can't fire a Mauser rifle without taking your hand away from the bolt which is another benefit of the Lee bolt.

>Action nowhere near as strong or robust as a Mauser
That's a fair point; dual rear-locking lugs vs dual forward-locking lugs PLUS rear safety lug along with the lugs being larger in general? No comparison, but that just means you can't rechamber a Lee Enfield to a magnum rifle cartridge. Ultimately, who would WANT a magnum rifle cartridge in a SHTF scenario, unless perhaps this SHTF scenario involved time traveling dinosaurs who's gone millions of years into the future to rock our shit?

Ultimately, no single bolt action is 'best', but merely what is 'best' for the individual. All bolt actions are give and take, no single one is the greatest in ALL ways, but I think the No.4 Lee Enfield is the greatest standard-issue Infantry bolt action ever made because it gives the soldier essentially the fastest bolt, highest capacity, and best sights of any standard-issue bolt action ever devised. There's also the extremely thick free-floating barrel and a storage compartment in the buttstock which is not present on all all that many standard-issue bolt actions. P14, M1917, M1903... pretty sure the Arisaka rifles don't have it, and the Kar98k and M91/30 certainly don't. Carcano doesn't, K31 doesn't... I know that a storage compartment isn't the BIGGEST selling point, but hey, it's yet another benefit for whoever owns it.

>>31603779
This entire post is what happens when one's entire source of knowledge is from biased internet articles and/or ridiculously limited experience.

>>31603718
... so you claim that it's fully adjustable without hesitation, yet you've never adjusted it or zeroed it? Come on, man...

>>31603722
AIA Lee Enfields are in Canada, there's also one model made after the No.5 "Jungle Carbine" however is chambered in 7.62x39 and uses AK rounds. Legit.
>Smoother bolt
The Mauser action IS more rigid and stronger what with its 90 degree bolt turn and bigger locking lugs, but that's exactly why it's a slower/clunkier bolt than a Lee bolt. It's also cock-on-open, which also makes it inherently less smooth/fast as a Lee bolt. You simply cannot avoid the resistance of cock-on-open, but if you close a cock-on-close bolt with authority then you'll never know there was resistance in the first place.

>>31603740
I'd rather a nugget over a .30-06. Outside of America, .30-06 isn't all that common, CERTAINLY not as common as 7.62x54r is what with surplus being available.

>>31603806
Gun owner since 2008, owned and handled four separate Lee Enfields; No.1, Mk.III*, No.4, and No.5. Got an RC Kar98k, couple M91/30s, Carcano, and K31.

There is also this:
https://youtu.be/iiajgOeKOKU

I don't care how 'sloppy' or 'untrustworthy' or 'poorly fitted' you think a Lee Enfield 'feels' to you. They're accurate, reliable, and as seen in that video, VERY smooth/fast. You simply will not find speed like that on a Mauser action, even on an M1917 which can be fired without letting go of the bolt and is cock-on-close, just like a Lee bolt. 90 degree bolt turn, it slows things down.

>>31603828
I can only conclude your entire knowledge of guns is founded upon by reddit-tier gun memes.

When you go into such autistic detail such as muh 60° bolt lift, it all tells me that you have no fucking experience and that you rely purely on theoretical advantages, theoretical advantages that only benefit a user that has zero experience with either weapon.

>>31603867
Never been on Reddit before. It's bolt 'turn', not bolt 'lift, and you would know that it does make a difference in smoothness if you'd handled a Lee Enfield as well as Mauser or Mosin bolts before to compare the two.

Check that vid, and tell me that the Lee bolt isn't smoother/faster than any Mauser or Mosin. Keep making assumptions on my personal experience, it's merely the cherry on the butthurt in this mall ninja 'muh Mauser' fest.

>>31603696
>but the action is nowhere near as strong or robust as a Mauser

it is however strong enough for firing its designed loads for a very long service life.

sure it cant handle overpowered loads as well but that doesnt matter much for combat purposes or a shtf scenario.

mauser is nice but its main advantage is being strongly built but effectively it is overbuilt for most purposes

>>31603828
I know it has both, I've just never messed around with the adjustments before.

>>31603850
Why would I care about what some chunky random Joe Blow with a YouTube account says? He even fucked up multiple times while shooting a whopping ten rounds. I'd also like to see how that "skill" translates to practical application of actually hitting the target (or even more than one target, which is possibly more realistic).

Face it, you're full of memes.

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>>31603952
>>31603828
As you can see, it's fully adjustable for elevation and windage...

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Here's the right image...

>>31603984
>Innahouse
>Bump in the night
>All you can reach is a bolt action because it's all OP owns
>Not wanting one that can fire twice as fast as most bolt actions
>implying you wouldn't want rapid-fire capabilities in close range

It's not my fault the Mauser is sluggish and clunky compared to a Lee Enfield, go cry elsewhere.

>>31602336
Had a Lee Enfield no4 mk1/2 with pristine bore and milled rear sight once. Sold that piece of shit and bought an aimpoint for my AR instead.

>>31603985
>>31604025
... that's clearly meant to be adjusted ONCE for ONE distance and then left there. When I say adjustable, I mean being able to go from 100m, to 200m, to 300m, by simply turning a screw by hand or sliding a slider. I don't call it adjustable if you have to keep it at one distance, and adjusting it to another distance will mean lots of shooting and fine tuning.

The rear sight must be raised more when going from 200m to 300m, than it does from 100m to 200m. Similarly, the difference in height between 400m and 500m is greater than that of 300m and 400m. When a rear sight is adjusted in 100m increments, each successive increment is larger and larger. Those lines show the same increments throughout, so it's obviously not a 100m, 200m, 300m, etc. situation there. You sight it in for ONE distance, and then you're meant to leave it along at that ONE distance. I would suggest you dial it in for 300m, and then aim for the belt buckle/belly button area should you ever have to use it. If you figure it to be farther than 300m, try going for the chest/head so that the bullet will drop to the torso area.

>>31603670
AIA are of inferior build quality to military Lee Enfields. The Canadians tested them to see if they could replace their No4s with an AIA but found them lacking. 7.62 converted No4s are god tier though, there's quite a few in the UK, NZ, AUS and Canada but they seem to be rarer in the US.

If you see them IRL it quickly becomes apparent that they are, infact, piles of shit made in SE Asia.

>>31604035
When are people gonna realize that mad minute became a meme after the beginning stages of WWI?

Are shot guns over rated when SHTF? What are the advantages/disadvangates to taking of a bolt action, unrifled pump gun, and rifled pump gun when innawoods and bad guys are out and about?

>>31604035
>needing a fast action

If you're doing home defense and your only option is a bolt-action, you should FIX BAYONET

>>31604305
The 'mad minute' is a youtube meme because people are too retarded to realize that it's a range exercise only and that you'd never have the opportunity to fire like that in real life because you're not shooting at just one target, you would have to switch. The BEF did lay down a shitload of accurate rifle fire, but they we're shooting 'muh mad minutes'.

They two biggest benefits of the whole rifle are the short, quick bolt throw and the fact you can start a fight, if not continue one, with a 10 round mag. The former gives the ability to cycle the action with ease not found of some other rifles, from any shooting position, without having to disturb your position and hold, means you can, given enough practice, chamber another round without losing your sight picture; only letting it settle back down like it should. I love my Swedish Mauser and M1917 to death but you can shoot a Lee Enfield more like it was a semi-auto than any other bolt rifle I've fired, and I don't mean in ROF (of course it's slower), but in the fact that if everything's right then cycling the action only requires you to move your right hand up, and give the bolt a comparatively easy and short flick, nothing else needs to move. It's like that one step away from keeping your hand on the grip, like a modern rifle. You can shoot some other rifles like that, if the bolt doesn't reach your face, but few as easily as an Enfield. It's not a game changer, it just helps a little; and I expect it did just that in the wars.

>>31604521
*but they were not shooting 'muh mad minutes'.

>>31604305
>Not wanting a smoother/faster bolt action
lel enjoy the Mauser

>>31604450
Personally I'm not a fan of shotguns, but I can see how unbelievably useful they are. Birdshot for small game hunting, buckshot for medium game hunting and self defence at reasonable ranges, rifled slugs for medium-large game hunting and much improved accuracy. That said, it's something like 10 or 11 shells of 12 Gauge for 1lb. Roughly 22-24 for 1kg. Meanwhile with .308/.303 you get about 18 rounds for 1lb which is around 38-40 rounds per kilo I guess. Just about twice as much ammo for the same weight. 7.62x39 is about 29 rounds per pound I think while .223 is about 38 rounds per pound or so. Of course bullet weight makes quite a difference, so 150gr .308 will be lighter than 180gr .308. So once you get into the .223 range, you're talking almost 4x as much ammo for the same weight. You'll also get better accuracy than with slugs.

>Rifled pump gun
(I assume pump action shotgun)
Is that a thing that exists? If so, why?

>>31604471
Fair point, but still, if a firearm gives me a faster rate of fire with higher capacity and better sights, imma go for it.

>>31604521
The point about the Mad Minute, whether it's viable or not, is that it demonstrates the Lee Enfield's ability to give rapid but accurate fire. That vid of 2 shots per second was just blind rapid fire. Beyond 5-10m, it likely won't hit jack shit. Still, it shows that a casing can be ejected with another round chambered within half a second, which leaves another half a second to realign the sights for a follow-up shot. By the time a well practiced Lee Enfield gunner is aiming at the target, a well practiced Mauser or Mosin gunner is probably either still chambering a round, or only just getting the sights realigned not yet having gotten them on target.

So whether a Mad Minute is useful or not doesn't make a difference, but the fact it exists and can't be as efficiently done with a Mauser is testament to the Lee's smoothness

>>31604637
>Is that a thing that exists?
If you mean rifled pump shotguns then yes they exist, for all the things you would usually use a rifled shotgun for.
Pump-action rifles are also common too.

>>31604723
I literally don't think I ever seen a pump action rifle for sale before, but yeah I know they exist. They're not too common in my experience, however. As for rifled shotguns, I just don't get it. Wouldn't that increase the spread on bird/buck shot? Since there's rifled slugs, it kind of raises the question of why to have a rifled shotgun to begin with. The only legitimate reason for wanting that I could find is if you shot ONLY slugs, and you also want to make your OWN lead slugs. It's easier to make a typical unrifled slug than a rifled one, so a rifled shotgun would be exactly what you're looking for.

I don't understand why someone would be in such a situation.

>>31604922
I believe there's some sort of regulation that makes them more popular in australia but I don't know the details.

>>31602336
>>31602414
>>31602382
>>31602578
>>31602624
>>31602643
>>31602657
>>31603068
>>31603439
>>31603717
>>31603779
>>31603828
>>31604035
The lee Enfield would be shit tier for shtf in the US. Ammo is uncommon, parts are uncommon, it's heavy, and it's hard to maintenance. Even if you reload and shit it's still very impractical for shtf in every way. If you have a shtf gun you want it to be in 5.56/.223, 7.62x39, or .308 generally because these are the most common cartridges in the country. Of course you don't NEED a shit ton of ammo at the ready but it's always advantageous. Nugget food and fuddy ought six work well too.

Overall, sure it could work but you'd be much better with other stuff. ARs are suggested because they have lots of ammo and parts available and are lightweight and easy to clean. You don't need and ar but you want something with similar characteristics to it.

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>.303 ammo availability is awful.

Where are you? Down the states?

You can find them anywhere here in Canuckistan.

>>31605186
In the states it's very uncommon. NZ and Canada have a lot though. In the US it's rare.

>>31602336
What exactly does it do better than a nugget? You can even buy a 10 round magazine for the nugget for less than the price difference between the two.

>>31605206
>303
>rare
Jesus Christ what state are you from

>>31605208
I love the M91/30, but the No.4 Lee Enfield has many benefits over it.

>Smoother bolt
>Smoother clips
>Better sights
>Storage compartment in buttstock
>Free-floating barrel
>About 4" or so shorter barrel making it handier
>About the same weight but that's because the No.4's barrel is thick as fuck

Meanwhile, comparing a good Kar98k to an M91/30 of equal quality is as follows...

Bolt: About equal (90 degree bolt turn and cock-on-open)

Sights: About equal (Short-radius notch-and-post sights. Mauser front sight is sharper, but that's splitting hairs... cross hairs. Badum-tch.)

Weight: Kar98k is probably half a pound or a pound lighter, so fair enough

Accuracy: Pretty much equal. (Both a good M91/30 and a good Kar98k will outshoot the vast majority of shooters on Earth; not many people can reach 800m+ even with top of the line modern equipment.)

Stoppan powah: Myth, but it if was a thing, 8mm Mauser and 7.62x54r are pretty much in the same league.

Reload: Mauser clips>Mosin clips (Mauser clips are smoother to use, and also Mauser rifles eject the clip automatically upon closing the bolt (like a Lee Enfield) while Mosins (and the SVT-40) needs the clip MANUALLY removed most of the time before the bolt can go forward.)

Handiness: Kar98k (Nicer stock, shorter, lighter.)
So yeah, the No.4 is leaps and bounds better than the M91/30 in many respects, but the Kar98k... not so much. For the most part they're equal except for some aspects like clips, weight, size, and so on. I know it's meme that nuggets are inaccurate and takes herculean strength to work the bolt, but in the real world, this is simply not the case.

I assume you're referring to the Angel stock or whatever it's called, for 10 round nugget mags?

>>31605504
Waaait, I forgot one beneficial aspect that the Mauser bolt has over the Mosin bolt. Mauser has controlled feed while Mosin has push-feed. I don't much see a benefit in RELIABILITY unless you're Spiderman and trying to shoot a nugget while upside-down, but when closing the bolt on a cartridge, there is resistance as the extractor is pushed against the rim so it can be pushed to the side so as to clamp onto it. This gives resistance not just to opening the bolt (cock on open) but also to closing the bolt on a cartridge (push-feed).

Man-arms can work the bolt of a Mosin as quickly as a Mauser, but if one were to have little girly arms, then the Mosin might lag behind the Mauser a bit. Personally, I'm 6' tall and have worked some pretty physically demanding jobs before, so I can work a Mosin as quickly as a Mauser save for reloading which is inherently slower most of the time. On VERY rare occasions, the clip sees fit to pop out of the rifle upon having the last round aggressively stripped off and into the mag, but that's VERY rare and should not be counted on.

>>31605206
>>31605411
Not rare precisely but the selection will be poor with no cheap options at your local gunstore. In my area the cheapest is 75 cents a round without ordering online.

>>31605186
Fucking eww.

>>31605609
i like it. the knife is a little goofy and self-indulgent but other than that it's pretty okay

>>31602336
Goddammit it was adopted by many countries over decades.. Is it good for/at XXX. Chances are the answer is yes

>>31605647
Unless you address the impracticallity


>>31605411
Not rare but not nearly as common as any other mainstream cartridge, making it shit for shtf

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>>31605504
I'm referring to actual 10 round magazines that you fill with two stripper clips. Between that, the several Mosin carbines, and free floating the barrel (free with a sheet of sandpaper but unfortunately irreversible, still relatively cheap with the Archangel stock that floats the barrel and offers 5- and 10-round replaceable box magazines), it seems comparable in performance in practically every way to the Enfield and Mauser pattern rifles while being cheaper and using plentiful ammo that's still in production.

>>31603689
You realize you're a thief if you didn't try to return it, right?

>>31605801
>Thinks the only differing aspect of a bolt action is the mag capacity.
>What is cock-on-close vs cock-on-open?
>What is bolt turn?
>What is differing clips?
>What is differing sights?
>What is shooting a rifle without having to let go of the bolt?
>What is storage compartment?
>What is controlled feed vs push feed?

The Lee Enfield, M91/30, and Kar98k are AMAZING rifles, and ANYONE in SHTF with one along with enough ammo to go with it will be FAR from unarmed, but it's blind to think that they're all equal/comparable in every way.

Cool 10 round Mosin mag, though. Still, even with that mag, it has many disadvantages when compared to a No.4 Lee Enfield. Better sights, better barrel (free floating comes standard, not to mention it's a much thicker barrel), smoother/faster bolt, smoother/faster clips, storage compartment, can fire without letting go of the bolt, etc.

They're all great rifles, but that doesn't mean they all perform the same.

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>>31602675

As others before me have said, if a Lee Enfield is all you have in SHTF, it's certainly a hell of a lot better than nothing, and better than many other choices.

As a Lee Enfield owner, the only gripe I have is ammo availability and price. You can occasionally find some .303 in shops that go out of their way to keep a wide variety of surplus calibers, but it's going to be new brass cased Privi Partizan. High quality ammo, but expensive. Most of my .303 Brit ammo was bought online, also Privi Partizan.

There's not many ammo manufacturers of .303 British anymore, unfortunately, and the surplus ammo has all but dried up.

That said, the Lee Enfield is a fantastic battle rifle, possibly the best bolt action rifle issued. A well-trained rifleman can put accurate shots down range as fast as a semi-auto rifle. You get 10 rounds in detachable magazines.

As far as SHTF guns go, you could do a lot worse. You could do better, but you could do waaay worse. It's a gud rifle and would probably serve your needs adequately.

>>31606178
Pretty sure he said it in a way that is mocking clips as opposed to mags, rather than mistakenly calling a magazine a clip. Still, funny pic. Here's some fun facts.

Loaded STANAG mag; about 1lb
Loaded vZ.58 mag; about 1.6lb
3 loaded SKS clips; about 1lb

SKS ammo weighs about the same as AR-15 ammo, but that's not the fun part.

8 plastic cZ.58 mags (240 rounds) - About 12.8lb if I did my math correctly
24 SKS clips (240 rounds) - About 8lb
12 SKS clips and 4 vZ.58 mags (240 rounds) - About 10.4lb

Over 2lb saved by exchanging half the mags for clips. Can carry a 5th mag for 30 more rounds and still be saving weight, or can carry 6 more clips for 60 more rounds and be ALMOST the same weight (still a little less).

Save the loaded mags for emergencies, and use the clips in calm situations. If shit is going to Hell and all the loaded mags have been spent or partially spent, you can still revert to reloading with clips; able to reload 10 rounds in about the same amount of time as it takes to swap mags. Whenever you've got some time, use the clips to refill your mags so that you've always got them in a pinch.

Having both mags and clips instead of just mags allow for more possibilities in maintaining your loadout. The chance to top off a partial mag instead of swapping it out so you're not dealing with so many partial mags. Got an empty mag and some time to fill it? Replace your current mag with an empty one, and it can probably be loaded with 3 clips within 15 seconds or so. One minute could EASILY see 3 empty mags getting filled up with clips, essentially using your firearm as a mag-loader.

Actually, that's a handy option; imagine if a bunch of soldiers are expecting shit to go south QUICK while defending a position. Everyone gets the clips out and tosses them in a pile. The worst shot amongst them, perhaps the 2 worst shots, are assigned mag duty. Empty mags are tossed back towards them, and they dutifully load them up with the clips.

>>31604637
My Argentine mauser's bolt is a lot smoother and faster I wager than your Lee enfields bolt. Only thing the Lee enfield has going for it is degree in which the bolt is bent, placement of the bolt and short throw but you still have to deal with cock on close. This is coming from a guy who has owned both.

>>31606519
The aspects that makes the Lee bolt so fast/smooth is as follows:

>cock-on-close (inherently smoother than cock-on-open, can explain why upon request)
>60 degree bolt turn
>Ability to fire without letting go of the bolt

If the Argentine Mauser uses ammo that's longer than .303 British, then yes, bolt throw would also be a beneficial factor. On the other hand, if that Mauser was rechambered for .308/7.62 Nato, then said Mauser would have a shorter bolt throw. That said however, you would still have to deal with such:

>Cock-on-open (No way to avoid the resistance of opening the bolt)
>90 degree bolt turn
>Inability to fire without letting go of the bolt.

It's kind of a silly thing, but I think the biggest advantage of the three is the ability to fire without taking your mit off the bolt. The INSTANT you're feeling that recoil, you can already start yanking that bolt back, and because it's cock-on-close it's silky smooth to open, and because it's cock-on-close you can just close the bolt with authority to entirely ignore the resistance, and because of the 60 degree bolt turn it opened and closed so quickly that it will have sounded like a straight-pull. Clack-clack. Meanwhile, with Mausers and Mosins, typically you hear three or four clacks even with experienced shooters. In this way, you can see AND hear the smoothness of the Lee bolt when a person who is experienced and practiced with one uses it. After all, you can't pump out 2 shots per second rapid-fire with an Argentine Mauser, can you?

>>31606186
>detachable magazines

Wat?

I'm nogunz but if I'm not mistaken doesn't the SMLE use an internal magazine?

>>31606727
an internal detachable magazine. Not normally removed except for cleaning.

>>31606787
Just read that. I figured it was removable but the word "detachable" made me think in terms of reloading.

>>31606727
>>31606787
Lee Enfield has a detachable magazine, full stop. As has been stated however, it's meant to stay in the firearm except for cleaning. There ARE people who collect magazines and reload via magswap, but it's ridiculous. The mags are rare as Hell, I doubt they're expensive, so you're not going to just drop them to the ground unless you're insensible. It's also a two-handed affair to take one out; they're not drop-free. So the mag swap is so slow that there's really no advantages vs loading with 2 clips (I can reload an empty mag with 2 clips within 5 seconds if the clips are readily available).

In fact it's DISADVANTAGEOUS to carry spare mags for a Lee Enfield. As stated; they're pricey, and they're not any faster or if they are then you're saving MAYBE 1 second, perhaps 2 seconds if you just suck with clips. They're heavier than clips so your loadout is made heavier, and they're also bulkier than clips. In short, you spend more money, you carry more weight, and your loadout is more bulky, but you can save MAYBE 1-2 seconds when reloading (I seriously doubt you'd save even that much though).

I THOROUGHLY believe that reloading with 1 clip instead of 2 would be faster than swapping mags with a Lee Enfield, so if you SERIOUSLY need to reload ASAP then you're better of ramming a clip in than swapping mags.

>>31606860
I meant 'I doubt they're cheap' or 'I imagine they're expensive'. In short, I may or may not have had a stroke. Maybe I AM nutnfancy.

>>31606806
maybe you are over thinking this. The enfield has a perfectly viable quick release magazine that could be used for reloading. The main reason people don't do this is because they manufactured one magazine per rifle.

>>31605822
Hey if you're dumb enough to drop a $600 watch you probably shouldn't have it in the first place

>>31606899
>Quick-release magazine
>Needs two hands to remove it which also involved changing the position of your shooting hand
Pick one

>>31607036
It is indeed dumb to drop a $600, but it doesn't change the fact that you're a thief if you made no attempt to return it. It has nothing to do with how stupid the guy was, and you CAN go along with 'finders keepers', but the fact of the matter is it still has an actual owner unless said owner actually THREW it away with no intention of getting it back. Somehow, I doubt it was thrown away, which means you took and kept someone else's property until trading it for something else.

>>31607248
You don't have to move your shooting hand away from the magazine release lever. You might have gotten confused since you cant reinsert magazines without holding the lever very easily which is unusual.

>>31606860
It's still nice to have a detachable magazine. Most Brit soldiers carried two magazines, an extra in case the one in the rifle got fucked up somehow (follower breaking/spring wearing) which, while rare, happened on more than one occasion.

It's nice to have redundancy. My Lee Enfield came with two magazines, and if I were ever to carry it for whatever reason I would keep one in the gun, one loaded in a pouch, and the rest of my ammo on stripper clips. I'd only change the magazine if I did something like dive rifle-first straight into a jagged boulder and the magazine took full force.

>>31604922
Pump action rifles are popular in places where semi-automatic rifles are restricted for hunting or in general. Remington 7600s are probably the most commmon, with Browning BPRs behind. I have a pump-action .223 that feeds from AR magazines I bought for fun.

I think rifled shotguns are mostly used in places where hunting with actual rifles is restricted.

>>31602336
Is it in good condition? Then yes, it's a good SHTF gun.

>>31606358
I would carry many mags and grit the weight. Know a guy who had all his mags catch bullets for him on a mission. Had to bum from his team because mags don't work so well once they've been shot.

>>31605091
>bolt action rifle
>hard to maintain
I'm confused.

>>31606613
You just need to become a tripfag named the Enfield Evangelist.

You won't accept anything that isn't admittance of your favorite rifle in the whole wide world being leagues ahead of everything else.

Nobody can take your fanboyism seriously.

>>31608904
If anything breaks you're generally fucked due to parts availability. I didn't mean clean.

>>31602336
If you're in the US, and you really like the Enfield action, get a 1917 Springfield. It fires 30-06, which is still a common hunting cartridge in the US.

get a rail so you can put a modern sight on it

>>31610478
What would break on an Enfield?

>>31610311
>Admits that the Lee bolt is weaker than the Mauser or Mosin bolts

>Admits that the Lee Enfield can't be rechambered to a magnum rifle cartridge

>Never refutes that headspacing is affected after decades of use (though to be fair I don't see it to be an issue to worry about)

>Admits that is IS a bit heavy at around 9lb unloaded (however that's due to the incredibly thick and accurate barrel for the most part so it's not like there's no advantage to it)

Yeah, I sure can't accept anything that doesn't pertain to my favourite rifle (No.4 Lee Enfield) being leaps and bounds ahead of everything else.

Compared to the Kar98k or M91/30, the No.4 Lee Enfield...

>Has better sights
>Has a smoother/faster bolt due to a variety of features/aspects
>Has twice the capacity
>Has a free floating barrel that is likely thicker than either of theirs
>Has a storage compartment

In short; better sights, faster rate of fire, higher capacity, zero chance of losing the cleaning equipment, and it's as accurate or moreso due to the long radius sights offering better precision coupled with the thick free-floating barrel.

Negative aspects about the Lee Enfield:

>Can't be rechambered to a significantly stronger cartridge
>Uses a rimmed cartridge so sloppy reloading can lead to malfunctions (practically non-existant if you reload properly)
>Needs a specific tool to completely disassemble the bolt (Only really necessary to clean the bolt spring (why?), or to replace the firing pin)
>9lb unloaded, so likely about 9.5lb loaded, probably 10lb or more with bayonet fixed as well (Primarily due to the super thick free-floating barrel)
>Semi-controlled feed (Bolt does not control the top of the rim, so working bolt while upside down MIGHT result in malfunction/the round falling to the ground, but have not tested it)
>Two rear-locking lugs (Not as strong as two forward-locking lugs that are also thicker due to 90 degree turn instead of 60 degree; headspace can suffer with decades of use)

>>31610311
Nice thread you started, anon.
>>31611616

>>31602336
Shhhh
Be quiet and eat your cordite, Dear
Dont you know there are starving Brit Bongs who would give qnything for a Smelly?