what advantages, if any, does the .45 still have over other cartridges?

>>31580524
It's easily suppressed.

>>31580589
So is 9mm

>>31580524
It's subsonic. So it can be easily suppressed.

>>31580636
not as easily

>>31580665
What? Why? 9mm can be just as easily suppressed. What is your reasoning other than
> Nuuu uhhhhh

>>31580665
Just because .45 is naturally subsonic, doesn't intrinsically make it a better suppressor platform.

>>31580678
.45 can be more easily suppressed because lolalreadysubsonic.

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>>31580687

>>31580696
> Lol already subsonic
Look at all the subsonic
They even sell it at wallmart
http://www.ballistics101.com/9mm.php

>>31580524
Less penetration. Yes, the same reason the military has mostly dropped it, is a positive in other situations like home defense.
Round for round it is better than 9mm. Many people shoot .45 just as well as 9mm.

>>31580636
No. A 9mm has to be relatively weak. You can shoot +P .45 and it is still subsonic. The .45's energy advantaged over 9mm is increased. Special Forces guys generally use .45 when they want a suppressed handgun.

>>31580696
On top of that, the sound of a 45 impact is far louder than the sound of a 9mm impact. Even on cloth. You can. Hear a 45 whizz through the air even. 9mm not so much.

>>31580524
I agree, it's shit.
But god dammit I'm one day going to have a fucking .45 super 1911.

>>31580704
What is the difference of energy at muzzle when you have a subsonic vs a supersonic 9mm round?

>>31580717
Nobody uses 45 anymore. Not even the "special forces"
Operators get to use pretty much whatever pistols they like, standard issue is now 9mm and has been. Cops don't even use 45 nor do FBI because its a weak round even with p+

>>31580696
and .45 has a lot more powder behind it. which means there's a lot more hot gasses the can has to contain.

>>31580741
>>31580704
Not a whole lot. It's a pistol round, you aren't trying to shoot through cover or armor.

>>31580749
The H&K 45 compact is the suppressor platform used for forces like the Navy Seals. You are simply incorrect.

>>31580756
That's a fairly simple operation versus making your 9mm subsonic hit as hard as a standard 9mm

>>31580749
>Cops don't even use 45 nor do FBI because its a weak round even with p+
OK, this guy is just trolling.

>>31580749
not sure about the military, but plenty of cops including the FBI can use the .45 if they want.
the department just has to either authorize a pistol in it or the the FBI's case qualify with it. Just becuase its not the standard doesnt mean you cant use it

>>31580756
This is true as well. 45 sucks. It's just outdated. The lethality difference between pistol calibers are negligible, but the performance, ability to suppress, ballistic characteristics, are not

>>31580767
it's a pistol caliber. there's a negligible difference between them. Pretty much anything above a .380 is going to do the job basically as well as anything else.

>>31580760
But the .45 ACP is still superior, for a marginal additional investment in your suppressor.

Now you can ask whether that superiority is worth it for your needs, or if it is marginal- but it does exist.

>>31580772
They can use any caliber I suppose, but 9mm is standard for a reason. There was just a thread about how the Glock became the new sidearm of the Marines. It's chambered in.... 9mm! 45 was created in an attempt to make a more powerful STOPPAN POWAH round, and as ballistic sciences progresses we found out that stopping power was negligible between rounds, and when you factor in hollow points or p+ and suppressablity the whole area of study changed.

>>31580802
Superior HOW? cheaper? No. It fly's further? No. It does more damage to flesh? No it has more penetrative power? No. It's more "quiet" than 9mm? No so what's so superior about it??

>>31580832
They think it has superior m-muh stoppin powah!

>>31580664
so is 147 gr 9mm. and it's much quieter.

>>31580832
>it has more penetrative power? No
A full power jhp out a suppressor will penetrate better and have more surface area than a subsonic 9mm jhp that by its nature is compromised.

reasons to get a .45:
- nostalgia boner
- mericuh boner
- .0475" difference in radius gives you a noticeable advantage in bullseye shooting
/list

>>31580993
nope.

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>>31580993
Not really.
Yeah, it might have more surface area, but that's not really going to make any sort of appreciable difference.
here's an apples to apples comparison.

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>>31581098
You mean shot placement is the most important factor, and adequate penetration is the second.
Everything else means essentially fuck all?

>>31581144
That's what the current conventional wisdom tells us, pretty much.

>>31581006
This. It's a fun round don't get me wrong, but it's not a "best" or even "good" round. It's fun.

147 GRAIN 9MM IS SUBSONIC YOU STUPID FAGGOTS

147 GRAIN 9MM IS QUIETER SUPPRESSED THAN ANY """NATURALLY SUBSONIC""" FUDDY FIVE SUPPRESSED

FUDDY FIVE IS AN INEFFICIENT SHITTY ROUND

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>>31581197
Unless you cant use modern haller tips!

dammit why oh why didnt i get a 9mm suppressor instead of 45

>>31581232
YOU FELL FOR THE MEME

>>31581197
I've been trying to tell them... Idk if all caps will help.

>>31580665
Easier actually. Smaller opening means less noise, less gas volume means less noise. Most 147gr standard pressure loads are subsonic. The advantage when suppressing is the larger bullet. This makes it louder, due to aforementioned larger opening and gas volume, but more effective on target since velocity is fixed by the subsonic thing and our only variable for more KE is mass. With modern bullets that expand reliably at subsonic velocities this is even more marginal.

>>31581242
i sure did man... feelsbad. i just wanted to get a usp tactical just like my counterstrike game

>>31581232
Well, you can still use the larger .45 can to shoot 9mm. The added volume compensates for the larger opening most of the time.

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>>31581267
Mass of the projectile is a thing with rifle bullets where its means more shrapnel after fragmentation, bigger wound channel if yawing, and more penetration if going for tougher than two legged varmint targets.

In handguns about it really does is make a round more barrier blind, assuming adequate penetration. "Dumping energy" is straight up fuddlore.

>>31581314
Or you use a suppressor designed for the multiple hosts, and has different end caps

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>>31580687
>Just because .45 is naturally subsonic, doesn't intrinsically make it a better suppressor platform.

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>>31581383
>the only factor in suppressor effectiveness is subsonic ammo

>>31581324

Yeah, we're agreeing, 9mm> .45 suppressed especially with expanding bullets decreasing whatever advantage .45 might have based on a purely KE standpoint. But you're not going to see fragmentation from subsonics. Mass basically equals effective range when discussing subs, with some adjustments for better bullet design\ ballistic coefficients.

Agree on the fuddlore Energy transfer is BS, all that matters is disruption of vitals and data seems to show that more\ quicker attempts at hitting important shit is better than marginally more shit that may or may not be important being disrupted per round.

>>31581204
What? She's never going to catch a fish with so little line. Most women would starve, i swear to god.

>>31581334
Yeah, but he already has a suppressor. I'm assuming he'd know if he bought a modular suppressor.

>>31581383
YOU'RE A FUCKING MEMEING IDIOT

>>31581431
I got a SiCo hybrid in ATF jail for literally one can fits all shooting.

>>31581408
>>31581444 (I'd compliment you on your trips, but they're clearly wasted on you)
>Got meme'd on.

I don't know anymore. I just don't like how much more arc it has in its trajectory.

>>31580524
This entire fucking thread
>Muh hydrostatic shawk
>Muh stoppin' powah
>Muh 1911
>Muh proven on the streets
>Muh basketball-sized exit wound
>Muh subsonic
>Muh 230 grain
>Fuck magazine capacity

>>31581833
Did you even read the thread, their has been more arguing over suppression than everything you listed put together.

>>31581018
Were you on debate team in school? You have me convinced.

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>>31581204
>standing directly behind a fisherman during a cast
>using insufficient length of line
Women, amirite?

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>>31581408
>>31581444
a larger bore size helps too

>>31580524
Go super.

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>>31580749
>Cops don't even use 45 nor do FBI because its a weak round even with p+

>>31581204
David Dubnitsky is a saint

>>31581098
>surface area
Try mass fucko

>>31581324
Are you implying that a round being barrier blind isn't an advantage?

>>31581833
Magazine capacity isn't a huge factor, if you are in a situation where you need more than 10 shots you probably should have brought a carbine. Mass improves intermediate barrier penetration and helps mitigate bullet failures like jacket separations. A bigger wound certainly isn't a bad thing, and a .45 can shoot anything suppressed effectively instead of getting assraped on "super operatur subsonics". Terminal ballistics are comperable for 9, 40, and 45, so what are we really shitposting about.

so besides easily suppressed which is something the average ccw holder would give a shit.

wht is .45 auto good for?

i rly wanted to like the round and belive . 45 will kill someone harder then 9mm or .40

>>31580665
147gr is typically sub sonic. Stop being stupid

>>31583247
Kills thugs dead, what else do you want out of your carry?

>>31580524
I own 45 I love 45 I shoot 45 I carry 45.
9mm is better.
Supressors:
9mm has 147-160 grain options that are naturally sub sonic. loaded with 160 grain bullets at ~1000 fps out of a SMG or pcc the 9 is quieter, the smaller hole in the can makes the suppressor work more efficiently.

Capacity: No explanation needed.

Weight: 9mm weighs less, you can carry more 9 for the same weight.

Cost: 9mm costs less than 45 because it uses less lead copper and brass to produce. economy of scale is also a thing.

Recoil: 9mm kicks less. the gun is easier to control under rapid fire, also the smaller round size allows for smaller grips that fit more hands.

Power: This is the only place where the 45 wins. the larger bullet has more surface area, this allows more force to be exerted on the bullet at any given pressure. This also allows for a more effective transfer of force to the target.
>Muh hollow points!!
45 has those too.
Standard 45 has more power than standard 9mm.
+p 45 has more power than +p 9mm
45 Super has more power than +p+ 9mm.
My unmodified 4 inch barrel XD will launch a 255 grain flat nose slug at 952 fps for just a hair over 500 ft lbs of kinetic energy, and a significant amount of momentum. A 9mm can't do that.

>>31580696
147 gr 9mm is already subsonic as well

>>31580524
Places with 10 round mag caps exist.

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>>31580524
.45 still has a place as a good subsonic round if you want to run a suppressor since you're effectively trading velocity away and still have a weighty bullet to lob through the air.

The only reason to carry an unsuppressed .45 is because your gun also has carry duty and you left your suppressor at home.

>>31580524
45 is good in a 1911 because 1911 but it isn't good anywhere else.

Isn't a .45 cal fmj projectile superior against unarmored targets compared to fmj 9mm?

>>31582023
just a thread of idiots getting asshurt that other strangers on a korean scribble discussion portal aren't using the same caliber as them

>>31584883
meant for >>31583208

>>31583247
45acp supposedly creates a larger permanent wound cavity than 9mm, but that could be negligible with the right loading on any caliber

you could also pistol-whip Tyrone with your 1911 if you don't drop him in 10 shots

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Would you rather have $9 or $45

>lower cap mags
>higher cost per bullet

.45 is a meme. If you want to feel like you have a huge penis and are busting off monster cals, then go right to 44 Mag, 454 Casul or 500 Mag.

>>31580524

you are correct, .45 ACP is largely outdated as a handgun round, however rounds developed from it such as .45 Super and .46 Rowland fill a peculiar niche: bridging the gap between handguns and magnum revolvers.

>>31580636
You are giving up power to do so.

>>31580524
.45 +P going just under the speed of sound is the perfect compromise between 9mm velocity and the stopping power needed to end the threat. Magazine capacity over 13 rds is the only pitfall to it. Critical duty Hornady 230gr rounds meet the federal specifications, along with being double the mass buy keeping the same velocity as the 9mm.

>>31585428
This

All this talk of 9mm and .45. Does anyone know how .40 200 grains perform? You get a lot more mass than 147 grains and double stack mags are still feasible,

>>31580524

Jerry prefers .45

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=382BkpHcvNo

>>31580524

>shown to not be as powerful as it once boasted
Just because fuddlore isn't true, doesn't mean mallninjalore is

>military dropped it
>most federal agencies dropped it
>most LEO departments dont want it
>it isnt even considered for new pistol trials in most cases
logistics

>more work dont in improving 9mm, .40, or even .380 ballistics in recent years,
Explain to me how that works.

>.45 variants are often an afterthought when a new pistol line is ontroduced, often released later just becuase
Almost nothing here has anything to do with how good .45 is.

.45 has a 60% larger frontal surface area, with identical penetration to 9mm in ballistics gel.
It makes bigger holes in people.
Since most defensive gun uses involve firing 2-3 shots, depending on the source, mag capacity is a minor concern.
High quality pistols can have be made to use .45 super for power equal to 10mm

>>31580749

>cops don't even carry .45

Well I carry an FNX .45 on duty so...

Mainly to prevent overpenetration. I'm more worried about hitting Susie or her mommy if I have to take out Jamal when I carry 9mm.

That being said, I'm also qualified with Glock 17, Sig P226, and M1911A1 just fucking because.

>>31586174
If you're suppressing a pistol it's not for defensive purposes. The 2 main reasons are range toy or offensive stuff where follow up shots are and placement are more important. As for the 9mm and other calibers, faster burning powders have made 9mm a better round for most cases.

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I prefer .45 because it's what I own. I'm not going to buy a brand new gun, holster, magazines, ammo, etc because any of you provide a convincing argument about any other gun.

>>31581416
>Mass basically equals effective range when discussing subs

This isn't vidya where the ump45 has better range than the mp5.

>>31581421
Do you not cane pole? You generally don't need more line than that.

Though you also generally don't cast...

>>31586248
>If you're suppressing a pistol it's not for defensive purposes.
Do you always put on earpro when clearing your house in the middle of the night?

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.32acp and .38 special worked just fine for a lot of years.

Carry what you want, this circle jerking over caliber is stupid.

Carry whatever round your given platform of choice runs the best. 9mm, .40 .357 etc who the fuck cares.

.380 killed trayvon more than a little bit, yaknow?

>>31586462

This, not to mention that most suppressors double as flash suppressors, preserving your hearing and your sight.

My nightstand gun has a suppressor on it.

what's the deal with .357 sig anyway? I'm newish to firearms beyond the doorway of .22 and 30-06.

I mean I want a pistol chambered in it but I have no idea why. Is it actually any good at anything?

>>31580524
In a given power factor, a heavier bullet will do a better job of breaking bones.

Federal JHP .45 is crap, note that >>31581098 shows no .45 loadings from any other companies. Winchester Ranger +p 230 grain is the benchmark for defensive .45, and the Cor-Bon is better.

I've shot wounded deer with 147 grain hydrashocks (out of a 4.5 inch barrel) and also with 230 grain Ranger (out of a 5 inch barrel, and while the .45 is certainly more impressive, posthumously, the fact of the matter is that shot placement is king, penetration is queen, and having your bullet open up 3 tenths of an inch wider is Bishop at best. It'll give you a little more leeway on what constitutes a good hit, but not all that much.

Capacity isn't something I sweat too much in a pistol, I feel that if you don't make good hits with the first 3-5, odds are you never settle down enough to make the next 10 matter either.

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>>31586669
Its a bottle necked bullet which in a pistol can help alot with feeding, so theoretically it's more reliable.

Its shooting a relatively small bullet at a very high speed, resulting in a lot of kinetic energy and a very flat trajectory. It's supposed to be comparable to .357 Magnum, field data suggests it may indeed be comparable.

It can be hard on guns, its stupid loud, expensive to shoot, has a lot of muzzle flash and the recoil impulse is very fast which can be jarring.

If you're a woman and can't handle .357 SiG, don't worry because there is a watered down pussed up version called the .40 Stupid and Worthless (Aka Short and weak).

We don't have a lot of real world information from actual shootouts available but supposedly this should slot it in above .45 in terms of raw wounding factor.

>>31581197
okay so lets say you happend to stumble upon an angry grizzly bear what would you rather have your 9mm or a 45?

>>31586793
>angry grizzly bear what would you rather have your 9mm or a 45?

.45...-70

I like the recoil characteristics of .45 since it's a low pressure round. Feels more like a push than a snap in the recoil. That's part of why I enjoy shooting my 1911 so much and keep it as my HD gun.

Otherwise .45 doesn't really have any advantages. Terminal ballistics for wounding isn't really significantly better than 9mm or .40, reduced capacity, costs a but more to shoot, ect.

>>31580524
I like the big holes it put's in people and people do in fact look at the muzzle of my .45 and are more spooked by it than my .357 barrel.

>>31586793
Whatever I can magdump faster desu

>>31586863
do you goaround pointing the two guns at people and ask them wich ones more frightening?

>>31586654
.38 special has killed more people than any other caliber in the past 100 years and will still probably be king for another half century.

Califag here.

If I'm going to be limited to 10 round magazines, I'm going to make sure the boolits I'm using make the biggest holes possible.

>>31586987
A thug laughed at my snub nose GP101 saying it was a little pussy pocket revolver and still came at me with a bat.

He got three shots of .38 critical defense.

Years later a car jacker climbed into the cab of my semi and his eye ball lined up and came two centermeters away from the muzzle of my Super Redhawk and got a great view of the bore and shat himself and jumped out if the cab and stumbled around of the ground and kept running.

>>31586242
Cops worrying about over penetration is fucking hilarious. Instead of worrying about overpenetration through dindus, how about you worry about the penetration of the 80% of shots a cop misses when they mag dump in damn near every officer involved shooting.

>>31583391
>probably one of the best posts in this thread doesn't get any replies

Maybe I'm just fucking dumb and this post is terrible

>>31587172
>poorly trained NY officer mag dumps 80 rounds and only 2 hit
>this means all police are incompetent and a danger to the general public
Same logic gun grabbers use when a single sperg kills random people.

>>31587137
(You)

>>31587259
That's not a one off statistic. That's pretty across the board as far as police shootings go.

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I like .45 because
1.the round looks cool
2.the front end of my 1911 looks cool
3.nostalgia
4. Recoil is less snappy then 9x19
5.because i think its cool

9x19 is better in everyway but i just like .45

Reading through this thread makes me feel like a complete retard who should off himself though

>>31581450
If thats the inly can you olan to ever own then it's a great option. If you plan to own other silencers in the future that work better, smaller lighter, etc... Then its a terrible opion, not in that it wont do its job, just that it will always be a jack of all trades but master of none.
Cycling issues with weak quiet handgun ammo, weight issues with rifle rounds, size issues compared to a good .22 can, etc etc...

>>31580524
Would it be more practical in an area with magazine limits, where most 9mm handguns would also be limited to 10 rds?

It's still an effective round, and I like the way it recoils. I'm not at a huge disadvantage carrying it or using it, so why not?

>>31587485
Because im right and your wrong, there is no middle ground now fuck off

>>31587137
>ITT: things that never happed

It's good because it makes a whole bunch of people feel confident in their handgun choice, which is quite important. Not as important as, you know, actually practicing -- which most of them do only rarely -- but nevertheless a good thing.

It's bad because it lulls those same people into a false sense of ability, which translates to a never ending circle of 9 vs. .45 shitposting.

>>31587228
No, this post >>31583391 is great, People just don't read it because its more than 10 words and none of those words is fag, fuck, or gay.

>>31580749
My local PD standard issue is a glock 21. Go eat a dick troll.

>>31587019
Or you get a single stack 9mm for concealability.

>>31580524
Since when does a bullet need to have advantages over other bullets to be considered effective enough?

>>31582124
Is that photo the reason why Kim Jong-Un is so fat?

>>31581197
9mm is perfect mm
i once saw a guy stick like 50 of them in his pistol and sent guys flying backwards must of took out an entire gang of them a 45 would of just ran out of ammo and probably been so slow and heavy it'd fall short of hitting any target

>>31586242
that's the whole reason my pd friends dropped the .45s and went .40 a decade ago, someone had an overpenetration and shot a bystander.

>>31581197
Maybe if you yell loud enough it'll alter the timeline and unmake .45 auto. Hell, keep screaming and maybe you'll get your father to love you again.

>>31589949
kek

>>31580524
>what advantages, if any, does the .45 still have over other cartridges?

I made you a comprehensive list:

>>31580717
>Less penetration. Yes, the same reason the military has mostly dropped it, is a positive in other situations like home defense.
two words: hollow point

My experience, it's just a lot more fun to shoot. And that's enough for me.