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US cancelled the only real competition to the Tunguska because Congress + the press were too retarded.
How does this make you feel?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M247_Sergeant_York
>Congress authorized production money to keep the program alive through a test-fix-test cycle but with a caveat; the funds would be released only if Weinberger certified that the gun "meets or exceeds the performance specifications of its contract." The tests were monitored by the Pentagon's new Director, Operational Test and Evaluation Office (DOT&E), mandated by Congress in 1983 to serve as an independent watchdog. The tests were carried out late in 1984.
>The results were abysmal. Unable to hit drones moving even in a straight line, the tests were later relaxed to hovering ones. The radar proved unable to lock even to this target, as the return was too small. The testers then started adding radar reflectors to the drone to address this "problem", eventually having to add four. Easterbrook, still covering the ongoing debacle, described this as being similar to demonstrating the abilities of a bloodhound by having it find a man standing alone in the middle of an empty parking lot, covered with steaks. The system now tracked the drone, and after firing a lengthy burst of shells the drone was knocked off target. As it flew out of control, the range safety officer had it destroyed by remote control. This was interpreted by the press as an attempt to "fake" the results, describing it as "sophomoric deceits". From that point on, every test success was written off as faked.
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>because Congress + the press were too retarded.
No, it was because the thing was a piece of shit that didn't work.
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>>31509685
maybe if they actually funded it properly, it would have. you know, because the fucking Russians built a DIVADS that's hugely effective
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We don't need SPAAG, we have something better. Airplanes that aren't shit. How does it make you feel a single fighter can do the job of a battalion of soviet AA guns? Get lost baiting cuck. Sage.
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>>31509675
Sergeant York was more a competitor to the shilka than the Tunguska, unless you're hidden 8 missile launchers somewhere on that thing that i can't see.
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>>31509695
You should look into the history of American attempts to build SP AA platforms during the cold war. They were basically all failures.
Look, sometimes something just sucks, because the people you have working on it aren't competent enough to make it work. Giving those idiots even more money will not fix the problem.
The York was in development for 12 years. How much longer do you need to wait to shoot down enemy helicopters?
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>>31509700
>We don't need SPAAG
opinion discarded, the Israelis learned that SPAAG wasn't irrelevant once they decided to fly in low. When the Meme-35's stealth features are degraded or overcome at high altitude, it will learn that lesson too.
>>31509703
Later proposals included room for missile systems, but muh cost-over-runs, muh design-on-the-fly
>>31509705
I am looking into it, and the only way to get a thread about this niche thing going on /k/ is to be a little bit controversial, so I'm going to tell you to "fuck off vatnik", the DoD just needed more money and a better program, the latter of which is effectively what the ADATS wound up fulfilling after DIVADS was kill
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>>31509700
Anti-air is a force multiplier. Every single unit in the area makes the air force's job that much more difficult. Every single unit forces the aircrafts to react and in an engagement between airplanes, a single unit of AA can cause a plane to lose the fight, nevermind making low flight far riskier, whether it be for CAS or simply evading radar and missiles.
Planes also take time to arrive on station, or intercept enemies. Nevermind defence against enemy attack helicopters, which is what SPAAG are amazing at.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jbe8NOzgE0
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>>31509712
>so I'm going to tell you to "fuck off vatnik", the DoD just needed more money
Wow.
You really are retarded.
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>>31509726
I know, I'm working on getting help.
In the mean time if you'd like to discuss SPAAGs or failed military projects (my actual favourite is the Cheyenne) go right ahead.
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>>31509725
correct. do you think Finland DLC in wargame will get NASAMs or Buk-M1s because of the REDFOR roll
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>implying the land-based variant of CIWS Phalanx, C-RAM, isn't basically a SPAAG on roids
its got dakka AND brrrrt
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>>31509767
Buks, of course. NASAMS in the FDF would be the most egregious timeleap into the future yet. Too bad there won't be any mines in game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QU9X84KGXTE
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>>31509767
I'm hoping Finland gets some blufor technology. it doesn't have to make sense, I'd rather they be interesting than realistic.
I mean if you don't count the MD-500, Israel will be the first blue faction to have red equipment (PT-76) so hopefully Finland gets some blue units in return
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>>31509787
>Israel will be the first blue faction to have red equipment (PT-76)
also BTR-152s and various T-55 hull based systems
I hope Yugo has heaps of infantry and M-84 variants
>>31509781
that's a sweet video, thanks for sharing.
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>>31509796
calling it right now, inf and arty will be all that yugo has. I can see them possibly stretching timelines to give Finland good armor and AA, but something tells me that they want Yugo to be THE infantry country. which is fine, as long as they're present in a coalition to support them.
imagine Yugo inf with Polish tanks. good stuff
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>>31509787
Finland has a mix of Blufor and Redfor in reality as well. Crotales, Xa-180, Apilas, TOWs, alongside Fagots, T-72s, BMPs would be expectable in game.
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>>31509814
well everybody knows that, but eugen can't be trusted to do anything nice for redfor. the fact that China has Crotales in 1996 is a miracle.
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>>31509822
I'll be content so long as I get my super-sneaky Sissi infantry and "Blackie"s.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bn7VBVWrZKk
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>>31509725
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>>31509675
Gun based AA was obsolete by then and remains so.
Looks cool tho
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>>31509833
Objekt 292 when
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>>31509844
Your mum's obsolete.
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>>31509848
Stridsvagn 2000 WHEN?
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>>31509856
Never. That gun is way too masculine for lil' old Sweden. It enforces the patriarchy.
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>>31509844
>>31509700
nice dubs but check this
https://books.google.com.au/books?id=tN6dCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA31&lpg=PA31&dq=israeli+losses+spaag&source=bl&ots=Pm7YYadhg6&sig=SX6aq0S6DPeNlB4hJPhc--vEwl4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiulvKn77bPAhWi0YMKHcgPBFcQ6AEINDAE#v=onepage&q=israeli%20losses%20spaag&f=false
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>>31509864
>it keeps happening!!!
https://books.google.com.au/books?id=tN6dCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA20&lpg=PA20&dq=shilka+gulf+war&source=bl&ots=Pm7YYaea93&sig=kH6eq1lMPBVI4nAsXEmm5Wu14qA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj68J6U8LbPAhWI7YMKHTdeAkUQ6AEINzAF#v=onepage&q=Self-Propelled%20Anti-Aircraft%20Guns%20of%20the%20Soviet%20Union%20gulf%20war&f=false
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>>31509851
Panstir would be a much better "equivalent" to the Patriot for balance purposes than the Meme-300
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>>31509882
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>>31509781
you got anymore of these sorts of vids?
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>>31509887
>argument completely destroyed with cited facts
>resorts to name-calling and obtuse reaction pics
sounds great desu
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>>31509885
bullshit. Patriot was intended to shoot down ICBMs and strategic bombers. S-300 fills a similar role. REDFOR is fucking entitled to strategic air defense assets if BLUFOR is.
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>>31509892
Not exactly like it, but the FDF's channel has loads of translated footage. All with ridiculously dramatic music.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPgceb9PuW0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHLEY4uIqno
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iF3_Gsvj9vA
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>>31509896
I'm not him and I posted it, thinking you were the same person.
Nevertheless, a single case of ARAB anti-air failing is not evidence of anything. If military doctrine was based on the performance of shitskins in a single situation, we'd all be fucked.
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>>31509904
>Patriot was intended to shoot down ICBMs and strategic bombers
except that's not what it's used for in WGRD, i'm afraid. patriot a shit but i'd rather have a properly modelled pantsir than s-300
>>31509908
thanks.
>>31509914
... the whole point is that SPAAG literally works against a competent enemy with a modern airforce ESPECIALLY when, for whatever reason, missile systems fail, and the target is with the SPAAG's range.
in the near future, a fucking Tung will rip apart a Meme-35 and I hope you and I will live to see it
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>>31509920
>in the near future, a fucking Tung will rip apart a Meme-35 and I hope you and I will live to see it
I can't wait for the butthurt that's going to create. All the retards thinking it's some kind of invincible super fighter, all the people thinking it's complete shit and everyone in between trying to argue against eachother in one massive ball of autistic fury.
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>>31509925
ECM and chaff can stop SAMs but not booleets
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>>31509931
CAN. They're not foolproof.
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>Current Year 202X
>civil war in whatever meme MENA
>Tunguska-Ms ripping apart hired dindu mercs and sandnig snackbars
my god damn dick is already diamonds
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>>31509882
not only that but i imagine these beasts would rip apart apcs and some ifvs if they get into a a fight.
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>>31509999
most definitely, my quad-having friend
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZSU-23-4#Ammunition
the Tung even moreso
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>>31509675
The interim solution for having no York was interesting and supposedly rather effective - attach stinger teams to EVERYTHING even the REMFs
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>>31509675
Why do you want Sergeant York when Chaparral exists? Guns are shit.
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>>31509725
>defence against enemy attack helicopters
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUlaGXDeSik
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>>31510055
Congress canned that too, bunch of dickeads if you ask me. nice dubs
>>31510076
we've literally been over it, idiot, Chaps are shit, have long-ass acquisition times, USA needs a fucking Tung-equivalent if its ever to fight mechanised in hilly terrain
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>>31509675
Why could't they just copy Shilka radar? Glorious american radar technology my ass.
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>>31510091
Out of interest, how effective do you consider the Starstreak HVM as a SPAAG replacement?
Mach 4 seems like a good counter to pop up helicopter attacks, with the target acquisition admittedly an issue.
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>>31510119
it pretty much does come down to target acquisition - there's a lot of room for obscuring mechanisms and factors like smoke and chaff, and human error on the crew, that can make misfires entirely possible. ffs it's saclos, so idno how that would play out when everything else in it's general range category is f&f, and it's entirely kinetic too, with little armour-piercing potential, unlike the adats or ap-spaag ammo. seems like it being deployed against possible 9/11 attacks at the olympics will be the most "sensible" use of the system.
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>2016
>SPAAGs
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>>31510091
Tunguska is a piece of shit. I can understand if you said Pantsir but Tunguska, lel.
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>>31510283
>c-cyka pindo, what if missile is too slow?
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>>31509807
But Yugo artillery was historically, besides sheer numbers nothing really special. A proliferation of different rocket arty systems. The armor is where it's at - M84A, M90 Vihor (it would be a missed opportunity not to add it), BVP M-80A, for variety it has old Pattons. Hopefully the 90s units will cover some experimental projects like Novi Avion, though it's doubtful. At least they'll get Sabres.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxPA-6Tb2es
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>>31509781
If they added mines, playing against NATO would be cancer with their FASCAM shit everywhere.
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>>31510298
The m163 exists for a reason
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>>31509931
>>31509925
>>31509920
how deluded do you have ot be to think an F-35 will ever be used within range of a SPAAG?
do you watch a lot of anime? maybe we should employ massed archers to defeat attack helicopters too.
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>>31510298
>what if missile is too slow?
We use laser, ivan. This isn't the 80's.
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>>31510298
Worked well in afghanistan :^) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wobG_68P_LE&from=g391.ru
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>>31512512
>Worked well in afghanistan
Numbers say otherwise.
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>>31509675
One the biggest things that people both in designing, studying, and procuring air defense platforms do not take in account for or completely ignore is the concept, the doctrine of virtual attrition. If an ADA system makes an attack helo or ground attack aircraft either pickle off its ordnance and then RTB or make a new heading for another target than that air defense platform still did its job even if it only did minor damage or missed completely. Back in the early to mid 80s, every genius wanted the DIVAD to kill everything it searched, tracked and got a fire solution on.... and that's admirable but that was never going to happen.
There were other issues, mating a turret onto a tank chassis which was pretty much end of its active service life and unless Big Army was willing to spend a lot of money upgrading the powertrain and suspension meant the M247 was going to lag... way behind.
The combination doppler and monopulse radar was prolly but given time and access to greater and cheaper civilian type semiconductors and hardened gallium arsenide based chips that would have been dealt with in a mid life update along w/ newer types of prefrag/proximity fuzed ammo.
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>>31509725
Wait is that gepard's turret on t-72 chasis? Is this even possible?
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>>31514796
The auto-cannons make it look like a Gepard but it isnt one.
>>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marksman_anti-aircraft_system
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marksman_anti-aircraft_system
Its the Marksman SPAAG which has the same 35mm auto-cannons that the Gepard has.
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>>31509712
>hmmm, I wonder who's behind this coin
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>>31509844
As AA sure. In the direct fire role though it's freakin awesome.
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