>There are people on this board who think it's okay to

>>31486494
It's okay to have hot gas redirected back into the receiver of their gun.

>>31486494
It's okay to have hot gas redirected back into the receiver of their gun.

>>31486494
>Gas and fouling is still leaking out into the receiver at a much higher rate than a piston gun.
Bullshit.

>>31486494
Yeah because the gas totally just gets dumped into the chamber and magazine, not vented out the side or anything.
Guess we all have to sell our DI guns now

>>31486494
I can plug your gas leak in the end of your reveiver, anon.

>>31486524
Are you seriously trying to imply that the bcg is air tight and doesn't leak into the receiver?

>>31486542
Yeah dude, as pressure tight as a 747

>>31486494
your pic is inaccurate. the shape of the tube station are wrong and how the porting is made on the gas block is all wrong. just fyi.

>>31486542
Who fucking cares, my gun has never fucked up yet

>>31486494
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/09/08/ar-endurance-findings-at-a-rental-range/
>Standard bolt carrier piston rifles meet durability needs
>Only a couple super expensive short-strokes come close

As someone who sold a Sig 550 to get a Sig M400, I can guarantee you that the 550 was fouled with black carbon extremely quickly (with a few dozens rounds) and extremely difficult to clean, as it required to clean 3 parts : the piston, the gas tube and the gas valve, with many hard to reach parts.
On the other hand I can shoot hundreds of rounds through my M400 with only some fouling, and the bolt carrier and bolt are really easy to clean.

So yeah.

Long stroke piston is superior, fampai.

Nigga, the DI design is a work of genius, reducing both felt recoil and overall weight, while being quite reliable. The only minor issue is cleaning, but experience has taught us that a dirty AR will still run as long as it's lubricated.

Piston ARs are a fucking meme unless you have a SBR or run suppressed a lot.

>>31487966
And makes it more accurate than overhead pistons because the recoil is in a perfect line with the bore axis.

>>31487966
DI is a dead end and the M4 would be replaced by a piston gun in the future.

SFs are using HK416 now.

>>31486494
I'll put either of my ARs up against any piston AR, three day weekend, field conditions. Loser pays for ammo.

I live in nc and am willing to drive 6hrs.

>>31488508
Just be sure to leave your cans at home

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>>31488528
Nope, cans are coming with me and will be part of the test.

>>31486494
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JmIQXkoog8
the problem is not the gas system you commie faggot

>>31488508

Wast of ammo and time. Both rifles will run identically, because apparently Stoner's design is robust enough that M4s with retro-fitted pistons are out competing other piston designs.

AR owners need to stop pissing on each other and realise that it does not make a shit.

>>31488569
Piston fags need to fuck off and stop putting their 1910 tech in ARs

>>31488574

Why does a metal rod make you so salty? Did some HK rep insult your sister or something?

Holy shit the piston shills are out in full force today.

>>31488090
>DI is a dead end and the M4 would be replaced by a piston gun in the future.
The next general service rifle will probably be an M4 that feeds cased telescoped.

>SFs are using HK416 now.
Not many, most still use M4s, sometimes with a Mk.18 CQBR upper.

>>31488588
>Carrier tilt
>Impact damage to carrier
>Excess weight
>Dirty gas all over inside front rails
>Imbalanced recoil
Fucking pistonfags.

>>31488634
but muh clean bolt

The AR isn't a classic DI system. The bolt actually works more like a fluid piston system, and most of the carbon fouling either goes into the buffer tube, or blows out of the side of the bolt carrier group and out of the rifle. The only times this concept is affected are when the expansion is slowed-- as in when the weapon is suppressed, or the barrel and gas system are shortened too far, like in the sub 10" barrel pistols and carbines.

>>31488634
Don't forget it's not as resistant to mud and debris anymore because there's no gas venting out the side of the carrier to clear out the ejection port.

>>31488634

> Carrier tilt

Yep. Buffer tube is now a wear item. I'll replace when my barrel runs out.

> Impact damage to carrier

I've yet to see peening but we'll see when I approach the 6000 round mark.

> Excess weight

It's a narrow metal rod and an adjustable gas block. My optic weighs 20 ounces more, so I don't notice.

> Dirty gas on inside of hand guard

Why would you want to cover an adjustable gas block with your handguard?

> Imbalanced recoil

I have yet to notice a difference, even shooting offhand from a chair.

I didn't want black thumbs again from scraping carbon off a bcg, and I wanted to inhale less carbon blowing in my face. Piston AR solved both for me. I'll probably get a can at some point as well.

Keep shooting DI, man. Ignore the piston haters. Ignore haters in general.

>>31488706
>didn't want black thumbs again from scraping carbon off a bcg, and I wanted to inhale less carbon blowing in my face
So the only reason to own a piston AR is if you're a pussy? Got it.

>>31488731

Isn't it getting late in Australia, anon? Don't you have work tomorrow?

>>31488760
Didn't you hear? Canadians are the new shitposters.

>>31488588
Same reason an ls in a mercedes does

>>31488550
I liked your old paint more. Still my favorite AR posted here.

>>31487930
Did the 550 malfunction when it was dirty? The inside of my engine comparment is dirty as fuck but it doesn't matter because the moving parts clean themselves. It's all on surfaces that don't matter.

>>31488550
Are you a life size toy soldier or something ?
These guns are completely hideous.

>>31486524

Do you even have a gun yet?

>>31486928
This shit right here. If it's not broke why fix it?

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>>31486494
>Doesnt know about bolt tilt
>doesnt know about piston shatter

>>31488621
The SF that run the 416 usually run cans with low pressure sub sonic loads that don't do as well out of a short, talking 10.5" barrel without mcfucking around.

Usually there's no issue but throw in the fact that seals who only really are the only ones using the 416, who also fuck around in water slot, it makes sense as stoner impingement doesn't like going immediately from being deeply submerged to firing. Again, rifle specific, can specific, not always an issue.

>>31491497
>low pressure sub sonic loads
M8, you don't actually believe they use 300meme-out, do you?

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>not enjoying hot gas and carbon fouling blast all over your face

It's like you're some sort of faggot.

>>31491664
Di is shit and will always be shit, no matter how rare or interesting the rifle may be.

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>>31491680

>not enjoying hot gas and carbon fouling blast all over your face

It's like you're some sort of faggot.

>>31491809
Look, you can enjoy your scat fetishes all you want, just don't expect polite society to accept it and keep it to yourself.

>>31491559
>DOD has purchased 212,000 rifles in .300blk
>NSWC-Crane specifically designed, tested, and is publicly fielding 8" ARs in .300blk
>NSWC-Crane was a key developer in .338 whisper mk2, is sole governmental customer of Robar's whisper-chambered integrally suppressed boltguns
Yep

>>31491884
source

>>31491680
Weren't you just beating your chest earlier about how your DI > Piston under any circumstances any day of the week?

>falling for the AR is a good design meme

truth is it's one of the worst firearm designs in history.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CXu0nh-iD4&spfreload=10

>>31493082
>Overuse, out of spec builds, bad rounds, dry guns, and shitty mags
Stay mad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPC-4KBX4qE

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>>31486494

That image is unadulterated bullshit.
And I suspect you know it.

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>>31493021
i don't own any di guns

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>>31486494
>>31488250
>>31494946
Whoever you are, pls stop.

>>31486494
because DI guns aren't fucking expensive to maintin, the piston will not work with any other bolt carrier that one of its own system, and if it breaks, you have to buy a new piston for a few hundred, whereas if DI breaks, you spend ~$15 to put in a new gas tube or 60 for a new carrier or whatever...simply put, it costs less, it's easier to repair, and there's interchangability. so fuck pistons and their extreme propriety of compatibility.

>>31487966

to add to this doesn't DI help with short term robustness to mud?

>>31486494
Piston ARs arnt any more or less reliable in durability tests.

It's literally a bad meme.

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>>31486494

Hurry up and call the Army, OP.

They'll really want to know about your groundbreaking findings. This is going to fucking save lives on the battlefield.

>>31495087
>and if it breaks

Which is never...

>>31495410
Sure, if you're a weekender firing a couple hundred rounds a year at most.

>>31495581

Hasn't been my experience after 2000 rounds in 2 years, but maybe I've been lucky. How many rounds before your bcg broke?

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>>31488634
long stroke piston
master race

>>31495621
Bolt breakage correlates to ring failure because a loose ring will bleed gas into the bolt chamber which in turn breaks bolts.

Rule of thumb is every 5000 rounds, replace ring. Every 1000 do weight check. If carrier can't hold itself for more than 30 seconds, replace rings to be safe.

Mono rings have a longer life and cost the same. Those you can safely replace with barrel and gas tube.

I don't know if there is a company that has made a work around for this though.I saw a maybe once but that was it.

Unfortunately the one honest to god thing piston had over SI, fucking not needing gas rings.

>>31495646
You say that as Russia considers short stroke for the new ak400 series for easier machining, lower recoil, lighter rifle with the same reliability.

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>>31495238

>The army always has the best equipment for our soldiers.

>The Army is always right.

>This is the one time you can't question the Army.
Fanbois are so obviouse.

The direct impingement guns we have are not bad, but let's not pretend like there are no legitimate arguments against it.

>>31495410
wrong. The piston WILL shatter seemingly at random. In reality it is way to thin for the gun but has to be to fit inside the handguard. So if you dump a few mags on a cold day the sudden change in temp can cause this failure.

Also Bolt tilt will ruin your upper...and your lower...and your bolt...and your buffer tube...
But if your lucky it will only ruin your bolt from it being smacked by the piston.

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>>31495646
aufbtomatt is recycle with gas pressure from cartridge.

>>31495746
Yeah, but piston guns also pull the bolt lugs against the lock ring instead of gas pressure holding it forward, creating risk of shear.

>>31495797
Not when the argument is for piston ARs, it isn't.

>>31495797
the military actually does a lot of test and has stringent requirements.

>>31495843

Sure, they also make mistakes and must factor budget into their decisions. Let me guess, the M9 is also the best gun for the job? It's okay, it's just not ideal. We all know why soldiers are still using these guns and it's not because they are the best design.

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I originally bought my LWRC for the cool features and free aimpoint T-1. But honestly, theres nothing wrong with DI. yes the gas piston is cool an all (im an ak guy), but DI guns are fine,

>>31495872
>Sure, they also make mistakes and must factor budget into their decisions.
Yeah, and not using retarded piston gimmicks in their ARs that would wind up costing a lot of money for no gain whatsoever avoids the first and takes the second clearly into account.

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>>31495763

my grenniday is better then automat 400 is experment for army not for army army

>>31495821

No worse than any other rotating/locking bolt and piston system. Did the HK36 or AR18 have significantly worse shearing problems than the AR15?

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There is literally no functional difference between piston and DI for 99% of people, unless you're some kind of turbo autist both systems are pretty much the same shit at the end of the day. This horseshit about pistons "shattering at random, total failure!" or DI "fouling everything, it will jam I tell you!" are born out of dumb people who don't maintain their guns.

BOTTOM LINE: IF YOU MAINTAIN YOUR RIFLE AS YOU SHOULD ANYWAY YOU FILTHY FUCKING SAVAGE YOU WILL NOT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH EITHER SYSTEM.

I own both, the only reason why I went with either system was it happened to be cheaper at the time and I literally do not give a fuck.

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>>31495900

That's like, your' opinion.

>>31495872
If there was another rifle that was actually more accurate, light, reliable AND could be manufactured in the hundreds of thousands for less that $650 each, I'm sure they'd switch. But there isn't.

I'm curious if there is a single thread topic that pisses /k/ off more than the piston rod/gas piston debate.

Mud tests, maybe?

>>31495135
No. AR is a sealed gun making it less likely to have foreign debris enter the firearm.

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>>31495963
>for less that $650 each

That is the only way your statement works and they are only that cheap because they were adopted in the first place. Whatever our next service rifle is, it will be more expensive than an AR at the beginning. It's common sense economies of scale.

>>31496047
Politics.

>>31496063
>Implying there's anything that meets the other criteria right now
>Implying there's ever going to be a replacement unless it fires caseless/cased telescoped, never needs lube, and/or sucks your dick on command

>>31496063
listen, the ar15 and the gobacs is the best fucking thing in the world and you need to get over it.

>>31496064

There it is.

>>31495065
Then I probably read this wrong?

>>31488508

>>31488621
>The next general service rifle will probably be an M4 that feeds cased telescoped.
A piston M4, yes.
>Not many, most still use M4s, sometimes with a Mk.18 CQBR upper.
Delta has ditched M4 in favor of HK416 though.

>>31495238
Guess what part of the Army use Piston ARs?

SF, the guys who use their rifles the most.

And of course, the muhreen with their piston AR SAW.

Long stroke>Di>>>>short stroke

>>31498598
SF uses whatever the fuck they want, there's no standard that demands they use piston ARs

>>31498604
Long stroke > short stroke > DI

AK > FAL > AR10/AR15

>>31498611
Except Delta specifically ditch M4 in favor of HK416.

>Delta Force replaced its M4s with the HK416 in 2004, after tests revealed that the piston operating system significantly reduces malfunctions while increasing the life of parts.[4]

>>31488090
>>31491497
>>31498598
Is this the part where civilians try to talk with confidence about shit they don't know anything about?

Last time I checked, SF, which in the context of America, refers specifically to US Army Special Forces, never even got the authorization to purchase the 416, because it doesn't really do anything the M4 doesn't do. Likewise the SOF units that have 416s them tend to use other rifles more.

>>31498619
>using what is presumably wikipedia as a source for specific details like that regarding the SOF community

Wikipedia also claims that Delta recruits from other branches including the Marines. I wouldn't be too confident with it, buddy.

>>31498638
Well, you can try proving Wikipedia wrong.

And I should correct myself, the specific SF I was talking about is Delta Force.

>>31498619
>>31498647
>Delta Force replaced its M4s with the HK416 in 2004, after tests revealed that the piston operating system significantly reduces malfunctions while increasing the life of parts.[4]
>[4]
>Well, you can try proving Wikipedia wrong.
Actually click the citation.

>>31498657
Well, damn, the article isn't even there anymore.

>>31498657
Well, how about the word from Larry Vickers himself?
http://dangerousmagazine.com/2013/03/02/earning-its-keep-the-hk416-within-the-us-military/

>>31498663
Not even that, but it's an army times article mane. You think army times is even let into the real inner workings of such a thing, and then is allowed to report about it lol? Regardless, I found the article, it's sourceless when it discusses Delta "replacing" their M4s with HK416s. He also goes on to say SOCOM awarded FN the contract for the SCAR, in order to replace their M4s, something we know now to be both false and did not come to pass.

And THEEEEEN he goes on to say the US Army intended to replace the M16 family with the XM8 but it never happened because of in fighting.

Guy seems hacky honestly.

>>31498728
So, I'll give the no conspiracy theory, and the conspiracy theory version.

It's public information that Vickers specifically worked with HK in order to develop the 416, he was pretty much the big driving force to get it into the hands of Delta. Putting on my tinfoil hat, I'd wager the level of push had more than just "I wanna save lives even though the rifle we're using isn't killing anyone."

I thenk, he has financial stake in it, it isn't after the all the only product he's ever shilled for cash.

Also, no mention of Delta "replacing" their M4s with HK416s.

>>31498743
>"I wanna save lives even though the rifle we're using isn't killing anyone."
I realize how dumb that sounds, I mean, it's not like it was Vietnam era fuckery where the initial introduction was so bad it was getting the users killed. Since the A1 on, the AR-15 as a design has proven very effective.

>>31498743
Vickers is objectively more knowledgeable than you regarding Delta though, the fact you think he's a shill or not.

And he has this to say:
>“The bottom line is that the M4 is a good gun,” Vickers says, “but it has its limitations. Special Operations needed something that could perform outside those limitations.”

>>31498794
>Vickers is objectively more knowledgeable than you regarding Delta though
And he said nowhere that Delta replaced the M4 with the 416.

Replace is a strong word, I'm sure both M4s and 416s are in the racks, but replace? No.

>but it has its limitations. Special Operations needed something that could perform outside those limitations.
Which was the SCAR, which didn't replace the M4 even after adoption.

>>31498808
Dude, he's specifically talking about the 416 in that, the SCAR is a failure and hasn't been adopted for mass usage unlike the 416.

And I don't need to prove Delta replaces 416 with M4, just that 416 is superior M4.

>>31498814
>Dude, he's specifically talking about the 416 in that, the SCAR is a failure and hasn't been adopted for mass usage unlike the 416
The SCAR was officially adopted by SOCOM. Adoption =/= replacement.

>>31498814
>just that 416 is superior M4
Based on? One guy who has been pushing it for over 10 years? One single source? That's your argument?

>>31498833
Based on the guy who was ex-Delta and got connection with Delta Force, yes.

And I was obviously talking about the fact 416 has been adopted for mass usage in 2 countries already, while the SCAR has not, for one.

>>31486494
There are people in this forum that use roller delayed blowback. You'll never have a clean gun again

>>31498837
>Based on the guy who was ex-Delta and got connection with Delta Force, yes.
Then, do you believe vaccines cause autism? Because only one guy, who had connections to the medical community and was an accomplished doctor pushed for that concept.

Don't ever, ever, ever EVER believe a single source you unintelligent fuck.

>And I was obviously talking about the fact 416 has been adopted for mass usage in 2 countries already, while the SCAR has not, for one.
>On 4 May 2010, a press release on FNH USA's official website announced the SCAR Acquisition Decision Memorandum was finalized on 14 April 2010, moving the SCAR program to the Milestone C phase. This was an approval for the entire weapons family of the Mk 16 SCAR Light, Mk 17 SCAR Heavy, and the Enhanced Grenade Launcher Module
>In late October 2010 SOCOM approved full-rate production of the Mk 20 sniper variant of the SCAR, with fielding beginning in mid-May 2011.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_SCAR#Users
At least try to know what you're talking about.

>>31498855
>Don't ever, ever, ever EVER believe a single source you unintelligent fuck.
Except all the western major SFs are using HK416, it's not just Delta force or Vickers.
>At least try to know what you're talking about.
I'm talking about the fact Norway and France have adopted HK416, if it isn't obvious already.

>>31498864
>Except all the western major SFs are using HK416, it's not just Delta force or Vickers.
And they all also still use the M4. What's your point? They got a budget to spend on all kinds of cool toys?

>I'm talking about the fact Norway and France have adopted HK416, if it isn't obvious already.
And?

>>31498868
>And they all also still use the M4. What's your point? They got a budget to spend on all kinds of cool toys?
The fact they are using 416 means it's a good and proven platform. If M4 is equal, they would just buy more M4.
>And?
416 is already in mass-usage, unlike the SCAR, which is a failure, SF-only toys.

>>31498855
you forgot this part faggot:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_SCAR#Mk_16_Cancellation.2FMk_17_Preference

>>31488790
Sorry.

>>31498875
Not really, just wasn't pertinent, yes they're getting rid of, if they haven't already done so, the 16. And making conversion kits for the 17. Again, I said it was adopted, not that it REPLACED the M4, just like the 416 didn't replace the M4.

>>31496085
>be me in military
>2025
>new rifle introduced that sucks your dick instead of M203 attachment
>drill sergeant mad because no one wants to do anything but fuck their rifles
>this is for fighting and fun
>guns always well lubed
>dick suck function being replaced every 2000 rds
>us economy falters as all of K joins military for dick sucking guns
>hippies and liberals join military too
>everyone making love not war to their raifu
>BJ5000 attachment sold to civilians now
>on every Christmas list
>procreation comes to a screeching hault


Yeah feels good man

Why hasn't flesh light made a picatinny attachment yet?

>>31496916
where in that statement did i say or imply that i own any di guns?

>>31498882

We all know you're the true Canadian here, anon.

>>31498587
>A piston M4, yes.
lono.
>Delta has ditched M4 in favor of HK416 though.
[citation needed]

>>31498598
SF units still use the M4A1 as the standard rifle.

>>31498647
>the specific SF I was talking about is Delta Force.
SF refers to Green Berets. SOF is the term you want fuckstick.

>>31486494
so go buy a galil and enjoy yourself.
i too enjoy galil-chan.

>>31487930
As a guy who has served with one, has one and works with them, I can say that this statement is utter bollocks. All you need is one rag and the cleaning brush in your cleaning kit.
The only thing that can be annoying, which also happens on my FNH FN-15 Tactical Carbine are the tiny bits of brass in the trunion.

>>31499202
Delta is technically part of sf.

Special Forces Optional Detachment-Delta

>>31499191
>lono.
That texron rifle that was supposed to fire telescoped round is a piston gun.

>>31499990
That's a general code name and not really official. SFOD-A-B-C refer to the Team-Company-Battalion tiers of SF. Delta is not part of that.

>>31500069
Isn't it also a belt-fed auto?

>>31500135
Not the rifle version, it ain't.

>>31493082
The fat fuck in the video needs to lose some weight and not watch as many videos with Chris Costa.

>>31488811
>LS in a Mercedes
You have piqued my curiosity.

>>31486494
>Confirmed for not knowing how DI ARs actually work
>Confirmed for never hearing about carrier tilt

>>31500154
>implying they'll use that version when FNUSA can just readapt the M4 for the round

>>31500232
Heck, I'd doubt that.

They can easily sell a complete version with better price.

The lower wouldn't fit either.

Them or HK, and these guys are piston masters.

>>31500224
>carrier tilt
The modern AK is inaccurate meme.

>>31500261
But carrier tilt actually exists. Furthermore the recoil is no longer in line with the shooter.

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>>31500261

>>31500269
Carrier tilt exists with every piston design, even AK has carrier tilt.

It doesn't mean shit in reality.

carrier tilt is fixed in these guns. it is not a problem.
only the cheap as uppers, and drop in kits will have tilt problems.

>>31500269
>Furthermore the recoil is no longer in line with the shooter.
what the actual fuck are you even smoking man. do you actually believe the recoil comes from the piston hitting the carrier?

>>31486494
Do you own a Prius, OP, or have you at least had the emissions equipment on your non-electric vehicle removed so that combustion gases aren't redirected back into the airflow?

It's a fucking machine, retard. And nothing wrong with gases going where that machine allows for them to go.

Oh, my, OP, do be sure not to fire your AR in urban environments, where the smog levels are higher, as it may enhance corrosion or carbon deposits. And be careful not to mar the finish on whatever Euro-issue piece of shit you're using, and always wear gloves, to protect the gun from the salt deposits on your hands, especially if you've had a Starbucks salted caramel frappucino with your hipster friends recently.

Listen, fagboy. Go get a fucking life, a real gun, or a mud truck. Any one of the three. Then make use of it for a while as intended. You'll learn something other than moronic hypersensitive internet minutia.

Seriously, do you have only Band-Aid brand bandages in your medkit, and intend to blather about how duct tape and a piece of cotton are not "optimal"?

Piss off, sniveling feminized metrosexual scum.

>>31500347
>not knowing how equal and opposite reaction works
Shame on you.

>Not knowing where the force is applied in a DI gun vs a piston gun
You're hopeless kid

>>31500353
I love how this is the defense of DI now, calling everyone who use piston metrosexual.

I guess people just don't like being farted where they eat.

>>31500384
>short-stroke Piston repeatedly generates impact on a point that was never meant to take it
>somehow better than a piston chamber designed for the gas flow and to vent it out the ejector port
Pistonfags are so delusional.

>>31500476
As said, every pistons have carrier tilt.

And no, that shit has been solved, you see the M27, they are fucking machine guns and the muhreen love them.

>>31500366
the recoil you feel comes mainly from the accellerating bullet anon. or do you think bolt actions have no recoil?

the barrel is fucking inline with the stock. same as in stoner ARs and every other modern gun.
using a piston does not change that you retard

>not knowing how equal and opposite reaction works
thats excactly why its inline.
I'm sorry your not old enough to go to physics class yet

>>31500384
No, moron, use a piston if you like. I have nothing against them. I have something against fags who think that it matters enough to bitch about it, because they are the same momma's basement dwelling fuckers who would matter-of-factly state that using Turtle Wax instead of their favorite product will ruin their vehicle somehow.

>>31500491
Yeah, in heavy, custom, railed receiver versions. You're not getting it in anything near a stock AR design.

>>31500509
Dude, we have a freedom of speech to bitch.

Piston is the future anyway, it's likely the VHS-2 is going to be the last DI rifle, after the Army run out of M4.

>>31500518
M27 just has a beefier barrel actually, it's the same shit as a HK416 otherwise.

>>31500521
>FN USA actively building new M4A1 and the Army converting all M4 to A1
>Running out or going away in the next three decades

>>31500476
>short-stroke Piston repeatedly generates impact on a point that was never meant to take it
uhh no. the impact point of piston guns were designed to take the impact.

even stoner DI will have a sliiiighth carrier tilt btw, as the gas builds pressure, it will also act from the gaskey and forwards.

its just that it isnt a problem

>>31500538
And after that?

The M4/M16 cannot stay there forever, brah.

>>31500536
The 416 is an expensive design completely rebuilt for an ss piston.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/09/08/ar-endurance-findings-at-a-rental-range/

>hundreds if thousands of rounds
>only a couple piston guns come close to wear rate on stoner gas system

>>31500572
The guys have never said which piston fail.

Then again, this is the same range that said AK (a WASR) can last 100.000 rounds without change barrel.

If that's true, maybe the US should switch to AK.

>>31500558
No, it's usually just an impact block where the gas key would be.

And, no, standard ARs don't have tilt. The gas pressure drives the carrier straight back, which is why it doesn't need rails.
>>31500559
The Army has stated there needs to be a revolutionary difference to justify that. Nothing yet meets that.

>>31500602
>The Army has stated there needs to be a revolutionary difference to justify that. Nothing yet meets that.
And when something meets that, it will have a piston in it.

>>31500586
They said only a couple like the TDI 416 knockoff meets durability standard.

Which means everything else.

>>31500609
And which are these everything else?

>>31500606
Sure, maybe. If it's actually designed for it, but probably not because the stoner gas piston is still superior.

>>31500617
Nobody else is using these "stoner gas piston" man, it's gonna die with the AR design.

And this is not assuming HK416 becomes the new trend among NATO forces and everyone start adopting it.

>>31500602
>The gas pressure drives the carrier straight back
and that same pressure exist in the gas key right?
which acts upon itself and creates and off bore force, allbeit small. the point is, tilt is not an issue when its fucking solved.

>No, it's usually just an impact block where the gas key would be.
and that impact block and its screw and the carrier are designed to handle it, which they do

>>31500641
Just because everybody else went with the cheaper AR-18 system doesn't mean it's better. Half a million Nickleback fans can be wrong, too.

>>31500651
>I'm going to double down on being wrong

>>31500773
>I'm going to double down on being wrong
thanks for the good explanation of where I'm wrong

>>31500795
>Update
All the gas pressure on a stoner piston is generating force forward on the bolt and back on the carrier. You don't get damage to the buffer tube like with a short stroker.

And the carrier was never designed for that impact force. A screw can and will shear.

>>31500221
Google 190e ls1

>>31500773
>Just because everybody else went with the cheaper AR-18 system doesn't mean it's better. Half a million Nickleback fans can be wrong, too.
For guns, it does though.

This ain't vidya here, guns are all about the better, more mainstream and popular system.

>>31486542
The fouling in the receiver all comes from the chamber after the action opens. This isn't changed by using a short stroke piston action.

>>31488706
A good AR barrel has a lifespan of around 50,000 rounds. There will be appreciable wear in a 416 buffer tube in 10-15k

>>31500966
And when given a choice instead of the native manufacturer the country buys from SOF units around the world go to AR-15s. But you ignore that manufacturing nativism drives purchase more than quality.
>L85
>G-36

>>31486494 (OP)
It's okay to have hot gas redirected back into the receiver of their gun.

>>31500997
Proof for either statement?

>>31501024
>It's okay to have hot gas redirected back into the piston chamber and out the ejection port
FTFY

>>31500997

> 50000

Government spec for the M4 is 10000 rounds according to the government whitepaper I've seen pushed around on /k/.

Even if that's b.s., no damn way a .223 is going to last 50000 rounds when a .308 only gets 8000 and something like a .22-250 gets around 2000.

>>31500997
the 416s we were issued was 4 years old, i personally shot over 10k rounds through mine while i had it, there were no signs of tilt wear in the buffer tube on any of our guns. the piston was changed once, and I was told to look out for cracks at the locking lugs since the bolt was aproaching its lifespan.
trigger group and gasblock was modified/changed due to problems with the system.

there was no mushrooming of the rod, and no noticable peening of the gas key.

>And the carrier was never designed for that impact force. A screw can and will shear.
and it still doesnt happen, because the screws were designed for it.
dude, its not that hard to calculate the forces here and use the right dimensions/material. thats like engineering 101.

and about the gasses, there is pressure in the whole gas system, including the key and the tube, which will exert forces that wont be canceled in the direction of the flow. this is fluid mechanics 101.

another thing to note is that HK operates with a 10-15k rounds warranty on everything but the piston.

anyone of you cucks wanna explain why do you think that ar 15 beats any quality ak? Even the oldest rk 62 I have shot felt better, shot better and never jammed even in arctic conditions.

>>31501703
>416
>The super expensive HK design
No shit those did well. 99% of ss pistons are not to that standard.
>>31501762
>Implying Finnish versions aren't always superior to the native Russian design
>Implying ARs aren't just as reliable but also lighter and more accurate

>>31500503
>the gas itself does not apply force over the barrel as it fills the piston
loool. So the piston doesn't move?

>>31502265

I actually cannot find what changes HK implemented for the 416 to know if everyone has just aped them at this point.

File: gas-piston vs direct-gas.jpg (34KB, 700x368px) Image search: [Google]

34KB, 700x368px

As has been pointed out repeatedly, the direct-gas system for the AR was adopted for COST CUTTING reasons, not because it’s better then a gas-piston design.

Don’t shit where you eat.

>>31502612
>Don’t shit where you eat.
The Stoner piston doesn't, enough memeing for today.

>2016
>people still spout the "SHITS WHERE IT EATS" meme
>people still have no idea how a fucking BCG in an AR works, nor what the gas key accomplishes
I mean, it's a 60 year old design, we have the fucking internet, and everyone and their dog owns an AR now. I think you actually would have to try to be this retarded.

>>31495911
what if you could combine the counterbalance mechanism with the hyperburst mechanism

>>31499105

>>31488508
>I'll put either of my ARs up against any piston AR

Makes it seem like you would put any of your DI ARs up against any piston AR. Because putting piston AR against piston AR to prove that DI is better or worse doesn't make any sense. I'm assuming it was a typo though?

>>31502945

The short answer is that contrary to popular belief, there's no such thing as a DI AR.

>>31502265
>HK
>super expensive
HK mil contracts are actually pretty fucking good deals

iirc they were about the same price as diemacos when norway were procuring them

>>31503010
The civ version is $3000.

>>31502612
>direct-gas system for the AR was adopted for COST CUTTING reasons

Which is why the AR-for-poor-people-18 is short stroke piston-operated. Right.
It's amazing how self-assured many people are who know fuck all about the subject at hand.

>>31503167
and has little to do with how cheap they actually are.
HK can make a superior rifle regardless of its gas system for the same prices as its competitors, thats why people are buying them. it just happens that the HK gas system combined with their better materials give the guns longer lifespan and better performance

File: ar15 - gasimpingement.gif (144KB, 1072x268px)

144KB, 1072x268px

>>31502703
>>Don’t shit where you eat.
>The Stoner piston doesn't

It absolutely does blast hot dirty propellent gasses _into the receiver_ and that’s a BAD thing.

>>31505394
>hot dirty propellent gasses _into the receiver
Not from the bolt carrier, bolt carrier vents to atmosphere through ejection port, receiver fouling is caused by gas that vents from the chamber and barrel.

Short Stroke piston designs do not improve this unless they increase dwell time before bolt lug unlock.

>>31505394
>BAD thing.
Also it's not actually a big deal.

>>31502987
he gets it, he's just trying to get replies.

>>31505394
>gif shows entering piston then out ejection port
>durr into receiver durr

File: shitting where you eat.jpg (21KB, 540x405px) Image search: [Google]

21KB, 540x405px

>>31505722
>>31505737
>>31506150

File: ak-74_4.jpg (55KB, 733x318px) Image search: [Google]

55KB, 733x318px

>>31506889

>>31503167
That's because it's made in Germany.

In Germany, HK shit costs about the same as normal burger shit.

Slavshit is still best shit for price though.

>>31502265
>Implying Finnish versions aren't always superior to the native Russian design
It isn't.

Vepr shit all over Valmet/Galli.

File: nasty_ar_blt.jpg (33KB, 350x263px) Image search: [Google]

33KB, 350x263px

>>31506899

I’m not denying that with any rifle, some percentage of exhaust gases get in the receiver via the chamber but _purposely_ introducing hot dirty propellent gas into the receiver is stupid and the AR was designed that way for ease of manufacturer and cutting costs.

Sure, it still works (and works pretty well, if kept clean) but a direct-gas system is NOT better, it’s just cheeper.

(And that AK probably had 10x the number of rounds fired thru it...)

>>31506889
>>31506899
>>31507134
>Using the Filthy 14, which has intentionally never been cleaned over 40,000+ rounds, to make your point
And it still works like that.

Try harder, faggot. You're still completely wrong about the "shits where eats" bullshit.

>>31507134
Filthy 14 often went 20,000 rounds with no cleaning (it got wiped down every time it needed minor parts replacement). It only malfunctioned when something broke or it was allowed to run dry.

Stop believing memes.

>>31501216
Government standard for an M4 barrel is 6 MOA, it's expected to shoot worse than that after 10,000 rounds, but the standard was written when the issue ammo was M855, which is accepted when it'll shoot a 4 MOA group. Machine gun rental places generally toss FN AR-15 barrels after 50,000 rounds of full auto, when they start to keyhole. Filthy 14 was shooting 3 MOA groups with commercial 55 grain ammo at 48,000 rounds.

>>31501762
Because it's lighter, more accurate, more reliable, more ergonomic, and more easily customized.

Don't get me wrong, I actually prefer AKs, I think they are more fun, but if I was told to equip a militia in an legal environment where my costs roughly tracked the US civilian gun market, I'd go with the boring Mattel toy every time.