>1911 is outdated! How? Exactly what has changed in gunfi

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>>31485895
It's a full size gun that holds 8 rounds mi familia.

>>31485895
I mean it's a gun it'll go bang, but
1) Lack of a safe decocker, not everybody wants it, but if you listen to all the 1911 bitch about having decock with the web of the thumb..
2) Easier modern slide disassembly
3) Drop in parts aren't really a thing
4) Capacity
5) Modern sights aren't always available.

>>31485895
>Springfield 1903 is outdated!
How? Exactly what has changed in gunfighting since 1903? What specific changes relevant to gunfighting have made the 1903 obsolete? If it worked back then, why can't it work now?

>>31485911

1. why the fuck do you want to decock a 1911
2. dawson toolless and a bull barrel. done.
3. drop in just means "sloppy tolerances"
4. buy a 2011.
5. mill your own.

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>>31485909
Glock 21 (doublestack) is 13 rounds

P220 (single-stack) 8 rounds

Not really obsolete.

>>31485911
>Lack of a safe decocker

It's a single-action only you moron. Do you also bitch about how you decock a Colt Single Action Army?

>Easier modern slide disassembly

Oh no a few extra steps.

>5) Modern sights aren't always available.

Novack is better than than anything "new" and you can get tritium or fiber optic novack sights dipshit.

>>31485911
>1) Lack of a safe decocker, not everybody wants it, but if you listen to all the 1911 bitch about having decock with the web of the thumb..
Not needed. Carry cocked and locked like you're supposed to.
>2) Easier modern slide disassembly
The 1911 is easy enough to field strip.
>3) Drop in parts aren't really a thing
Not needed. The gun comes fine out of the box.
>4) Capacity
8+1 is enough for 99% of pistol fights.
>5) Modern sights aren't always available.
I have seen dot, fiber optic, thick, thin, colored and every other kind of sight imaginable on a 1911.
>>31485917
The main reason they switched was semi-automatic actions, but those are of dubious benefit anyway.

>>31485895
>why can't it work now?
A box full of 9mm hollowpoints doesn't fit in it.
Every handgun people criticize always has one problem with it in common is that it doesn't fit 20ish+9mm hp.

>>31485911
>lack of a safe decocker
Why would you ever wish to decock a 1911?
>easier modern slide disassembly
No. The 1911 slide is the single easiest semi pistol slides to disassemble, as the ONLY 3 PARTS in the slide proper all come out of the same hole, and require no tools to do so.

If you mean field stripping, bull barrels are a thing and anything but the tightest bullseye pistols don't require a bushing wrench.
>drop in parts aren't really a thing
That's the fault of everybody wanting to be a snowflake manufacturer, not a fault of the design of the gun. This is literally like expecting M&P parts to work in your Glock. Generally, parts from the same manufacturer interchange just fine.
>capacity
Double stack 1911's exist, just like single-stack Glocks, M&P's, and XD's exist. And a double-stack 1911 is currently the single highest-capacity pistol available with a flush-fit mag at 21 rounds of 9x19 or .38super.
>modern sights aren't always available
Yes they are. Every single company that produces a 1911 offers at least one model with either Novak or Bo-Mar sight cuts. Literally NOBODY makes exclusively GI models.

>>31485980
A whole box of 9mm is great for spray and pray. 45 ACP is great for stopping fights.

>>31485980
>http://stiguns.com/mag-capacity/
A 1911 currently has the highest mag capacity of any pistol made.

>>31485980

a 126mm MBX mag holds 20.

if you go for a big stick, a 170mm holds about 30. and it isn't cartoonishly huge like the Glock 33 round mags.

>>31485972
>8+1 is enough for 99% of pistol fights.
That's not quite true. 0+0 is enough for 96% of the time a pistol is drawn in self defense. The other 4% of the time is mostly 1 round, followed by instances of a LOT of rounds, which average out to 3.

Pistol rounds, ALL pistol rounds, are anemic. There's cases where people took 5 rounds of .357mag to the center chest and not only won the fight but lived afterward, don't try to pretend that .45 has something potency-wise that a .357mag round doesn't.

If you need to be shooting more than once you want to have as many bullets as possible.

>>31485985

>Double stack 1911's exist
Double-stack 1911's are abominations; 9mm 1911's are abominations. CZ75's are for people who want double stack 9mms.

>>31486044
>waaaaaaahhhhhhh
>someone proved me wrong on the internet, time to call the existence of something I didn't know about an abomination and move the goalposts!

>>31485895
People expect more reliable guns now. Glocks are the most reliable guns around, per: https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_5_4/160140_High_round_count_pistols__100_000___observations.html

1911s are more of a bullseye competition gun aka a "race gun" than a combat gun, these days.

>>31486038
Most fights where someone needed an unusually large number of rounds is because they missed a lot. You show me anyone who can take 8 rounds of 45 ACP hollow points in the chest, and I'll buy him a beer. Of course, if you really needed more capacity, there's always this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9IAJEML8jU

>>31486000
No. See >>31486038

There isn't a pistol round that exists that is great for stopping fights. If you want that you need a rifle or a shotgun. Hell, FBI testing showed marginal differences at best between 9mm/.40S&W/.45ACP, and that even .380ACP didn't have much less in the way of capability when compared to .45ACP.

>>31486056
>there are over 300 different manufacturers producing 1911's
Of course reliability is going to be all over the place. Buy from a reputable manufacturer or build it yourself, never have an issue.

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I can shoot my M&P at you 17 times before reloading. You can shoot your grandpa pistol at me 7 times.

>but muh 7 hits are better than yer 17 misses

Yeah and my 10 hits and 7 misses are still better than your 7 hits.

The pig departments and militaries switched to higher capacity for a reason

That's it the end case closed fuck off

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>>31486056
>1911s are more of a bullseye competition gun aka a "race gun" than a combat gun, these days.

The trend of 1911's in IDPA and IPSC are a drop in the bucket compared to the combat experience the 1911A1 has.

Modern 1911's get their reputation of being finicky because middle aged faggots spend top-dollar on custom models/parts and expect the tolerances to be tighter than a thirteen-year-old Icelandic girl. Meanwhile, A mil-spic Colt can withstand the trenches of Ypres.

>>31486094

Pal, a 1911 just can't fucking hack it in terms of reliability, ease of maintenance, cost of manufacture, or capacity.

I own a full size 1911 as well as a couple of polymer frame 9mm and the 1911 is a fun gun. It's a comfy gun. It's an aesthetic gun.

But it is not the optimal gun, ever.

>>31486070
Best get driving to Boise then, they use Glock 21s on their police force, the same police that shot Dorian Willes 20 times including at least 6 abdomen shots, several chest shots, and at least 1 shot to the head. He's alive and now competes in the Paraolympics.

https://web.archive.org/web/20130116114607/http://www.ktvb.com/news/local/64307962.html
http://masscops.com/threads/willes-i-was-scared-and-evading-police.66049/
http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2008/11/boise_man_shot_20_times_by_pol.html

>>31486000
I wouldn't know I don't use either in my semi or revolvers.

>>31486109
Yep, that's why CAG, Force Recon and MARSOC have stubbornly stuck with theirs for decades now.

>Muh Jungle country/Freedom Group gun isn't reliable!

My Springfield Range Officer Operator and CZ75 both have zero malfunctions after thousands of rounds. According to Glocksuckers I should be dead by now.

>>31486109
Sounds like you bought the wrong 1911 then.

>>31486155
Haley has reiterated that while it's a familiar gun to him, modern handguns are better in capacity, reliability, and weight.

1911 fags are almost as bad as ARfags, except their praise is actually substantiated.

>>31486081
>>31486094
>>31486156
Funny how Glockfags never need to make this excuse.

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>>31486155
>>31486156

>Muh military operators
>Muh 'not my 1911 which has never once failed ever'

15 rounds.
17 rounds.
No hand fitting.
Superior mechanical accuracy.

What aren't you getting?

The 1911 is still as effective as it ever was, it just isn't the best tool for the job anymore.

>>31486084
10 hits won't kill anyone any deader than 7, or two for that matter.
>>31486134
If what you say is true, then he's a truly exceptional man. Hell, I'll buy him a beer if I ever meet him.

>>31486007
There's a 100 round drum for glawkz and even the 18 mag is more than 26 rounds

>>31486201
>10 hits won't kill anyone any deader than 7
oh boy, here we go

>>31486201
Well if they are kills shots sure, but stats have shown time and again capacity is king, then performance. So like 60-40 capacity/cartridge.

>>31486180
Because Glock clones are not cheaply made by unskilled laborers in the Philippines.
>>31486197
Your increased capacity comes at the expense of stopping power. You may have twice as many rounds, but it'll take you twice as many shots anyway, so all you're doing is shooting more for the same effect.

>>31486228
Stats can be manipulated to show ANYTHING. Just look at all the anti-Second Amendment stats out there.

>>31486201
>If what you say is true
Wow you really are a fag. You're given 3 fucking legitimate sources to back it up and you try casting doubt on that anon's truthfulness?

>10 hits won't kill anyone any deader than 7, or two for that matter.
It might lead to killing them at all. Every extra hit is a chance to hit nervous system or artery and stop the person shot.

>>31485895
>heavy
Most modern handguns are quite a bit lighter in weight, usually with a frame made out of polymer or aluminum.
>low capacity
Most modern handguns hold more ammo than the 1911. A full size .45 is expected to hold 12-15+1 rounds, not 7+1. Yes, there are double-stack 1911's, but they are not widely produced.
>no accessory rail
These are now considered standard for a full size handgun. Again, there are some 1911's that have them, but it's not widespread.
>no configuration without a thumb safety
This is a bit of an odd requirement on an SAO system, but the default now with modern handguns is to either have the ability to convert a pistol to having no thumb safety, or to be able to buy a version that doesn't have a thumb safety. The 1911 was originally designed to only have a grip safety, after all.
>no real way to custom-fit the gun to different users' hands, aside from swapping long/short trigger types, which requires complete disassembly
I understand there are some thin grips you can buy, although you do need to install thin grip screw bushings with those, but there's no standard S, M, L backstraps or ergonomic grip panels to swap out, as many modern handguns are moving toward having standard.
>trigger guard is not gloves friendly
The trigger guard on the 1911 is small, and not ideal for using while wearing winter gloves, as most modern handguns are designed to be capable of.

Counterpoint:
>>31485911
>1) Lack of a safe decocker, not everybody wants it, but if you listen to all the 1911 bitch about having decock with the web of the thumb..
No one who knows anything about guns wants a decocker on a 1911.
>2) Easier modern slide disassembly
Fair.
>3) Drop in parts aren't really a thing
That's because you're buying garbage tier 1911's and expecting custom race parts to drop in easily. Any Colt part will drop into any Colt 1911.
>4) Capacity
Yes.
>5) Modern sights aren't always available.
That's not even true.

>>31486197
>what aren't you getting?
The extra recoil absorption of a metal-framed handgun

The greatest trigger to have ever been installed in a pistol

Multiple safeties

Second strike capability

>so what's the tradeoff?
Not capacity, 1911's can have up to 30 rounds in a 170mm mag or 21 rounds flush-fit.

Not caliber options, 1911's are available in everything from .22lr through .460 Rowland (in fact the only other pistol with a commercial offering in .460 Rowland is the XDm)

Certainly not comfort, 1911 has been routinely touted as the single most ergonomic pistol to have ever existed, globally.

>>31486217
The 100rd glock drum is shit. Also there's a 50 and 120rd 1911 drum (also shit). The G18 mag is 204mm long and only 27 rounds, the KCI 33rd stick mag is 228mm long.

>>31486229
>Your increased capacity comes at the expense of stopping power. You may have twice as many rounds, but it'll take you twice as many shots anyway, so all you're doing is shooting more for the same effect.
Yeah nah, the FBI says you're full of shit, and I'll believe their actual testing over your asspulling.

>>31486229
>>31486244
>>31486253
>I-IRRELEVANT STATS
>M-MUH MATCH TRIGGER
>M-MUH STOPPAN POWAH
And that's it folks, go home.

>>31486253
>The extra recoil absorption of a metal-framed handgun
People should stop bringing this up as if weight is a positive feature on handguns.

>>31486229
he is gonna pull the 'muh statistics' card soon and then fail to realize that when you have just a handful of rounds, you tend to aim those rounds better than "just fuckin magdump him" being taught to every cop across the US.

>>31486197
Funny how they didn't pick lolonly9mm for the USSOCOM Offensive Weapons Project.

>>31486251
>yes, there are double-stack 1911's, but they are not widely produced.
4 US companies produce them. 7 total that I'm aware of.

That's 6 more companies than produce a [Glock, M&P, HK, Walther, etc].

>>31486274
>4 US companies produce them.
And they're all no-name, fly-by-night outfits.

>>31486253
>Multiple safeties
Introducing Murphy into a combat situation is a Bad Thing.

>The greatest trigger to have ever been installed in a pistol
Utterly pointless when adrenaline is pumping in a combat situation.

>Second strike capability
A number of modern guns have this too.

>The extra recoil absorption of a metal-framed handgun
BUT IT WEIGHING A TON IS A *GOOD THING* GUISE REALLY

>>31486269
Because the Offensive handgun concept can be accomplished better with a 10.5 carbine or SMG. Hence why SOCOM abandoned it.

They sure as fuck didn't choose a 1911 for the project.

>>31486274
They all have obnoxiously thick grips with proprietary mags.

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>>31486229

>Stopping power

Will this meme ever die? I thought we dealt with this 10 years ago and all the shitposters finally caught onto the truth and moved on to something else.

Stopping power doesn't mean anything at all in the context of a handgun round. If you're penetrating sufficiently to not get deflected by bones or stuck in a thick jacket the only thing that matters is shot placement anyway.

Not to mention modern 9mm defensive ammo is putting just as much and in some cases more energy on target that .45. Pretty embarrassing clown caliber fags.

If you're even going to have a 1911 you might as well have one chambered in something that isn't trash.

>>31486262
>trusting stats written around pocketbooks and ladyhands
even overlooking that, the only reason they went 9mm was because of the P9HST1. Simply put, all 9mm JHP's were shit until Federal rolled out the HST line.

>>31486269
>Funny how they didn't pick lolonly9mm for the USSOCOM Offensive Weapons Project.
SEALS have no problem with 9mm, and the military is using fucking ball ammo anyways like chumps, which is about the only time .45 actually could see a notable improvement over 9mm.

The rest of us aren't doing that.

>>31486288
hot

>>31485895
Of course the Fedora is an outdated design. It came from an era when headwear was designed to be tipped, not to avoid gentlemanly conversation lawsuits. It came from an era where it was the norm to learn how your m’ladys operated and to practice being a gentleman until it became second nature, not to design the headwear to the lowest common denominator. It came from an era in which our country tried to supply its gentlemen with the best garments possible, unlike today, when our non-euphoric men and women are issued headware that was adopted because of international deal-making or the fact that the factory is in some well-connected God believers district. Yes, beyond any shadow of a doubt, the Fedora IS an outdated design… and that’s exactly why I tip it.

>>31485895
Two handed grip is the most obvious major difference.

>>31486295
On the contrary, Winchester Ranger was great before that and is considered just as top-tier as HST.

>>31486253

>Extra recoil absorption.

Not necessary considering you've got a full size pistol with less recoil impulse to begin with.

>Trigger

Hyperbole. It's only as good as the person who hand fit the gun.

>Multiple safeties
Present on both examples

>Second strike

You mean something the 1911 doesn't have without manually cocking the hammer for a second? The picture HK P30 is DA/SA which is far superior for "second strikes".

>Double stack 1911's

So now ergonomics are totally irrelevant?

>.460 Rowland

Like anyone gives a fuck about wildcat cartridges.

You're really stretching there kid. Go to bed.

>>31486288
>If you're penetrating sufficiently to not get deflected by bones or stuck in a thick jacket the only thing that matters is shot placement anyway.
thing is, 9mm JHP's tend NOT to do that. 9mm ball, on the otherhand, does it just fine, with 18-35inches of penetration consistantly from weaksauce 115gr to 147gr fatboys.

Hell, even P9HST1 can barely pull 13-16" in 10% ballistics gel, and thats not even factoring in bones, muscle tissue, etc. - sidenote, the first 4" of gel penetration is consistant with just breaking skin, hence the BB test (4+ inches of penetration in gel=broken the skin, 3-4 means it left a big fuckin bleeding welt)

>>31486295
>these well known tests prove me wrong
>better just say they're lying without any proof!

>>31486324
>>>Trigger
>
>Hyperbole. It's only as good as the person who hand fit the gun.

Not him, but let's put it like this: An average 1911 trigger is going to be easier for a bad shooter to shoot well than an average trigger on most any other handgun.

>>31486314
If you would of said Gold-dot 124's I would of given it some consideration. If you would of said black talon 124gr's I would of agreed. But once they rebranded it to 'ranger', it went to shit. The extra long talons made it even worse. but those black talons......weeeewwwwww they are no fuckin joke.

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>>31486353
>would of

>>31486334
>Our tests find that "modern" JHP loads are just as effective as [Insert actual caliber worth a shit here].
funny how you always have to justify how your babby 9mm is just barely making it to the bigboy table in all these threads. I aint even OP.

>>31486329
>Hell, even P9HST1 can barely pull 13-16" in 10% ballistics gel, and thats not even factoring in bones, muscle tissue, etc.
Confirmed for not knowing how ballistics gel works. Gel takes bones and muscle tissue into account as part of the math related to how the mix works. 13-16" is the sweet spot for ammo to land in for maximum performance in the human body--the FBI penetration standards are 12-18" to ensure penetration through auto glass and sufficiently deep into the human body, without excessive risk of overpenetration.

You are an ignorant buffoon and you just revealed that to everyone.

>>31486268
It is if you're shooting it more than carrying it.

It isn't if you're carrying it more than shooting it.

They also make polymer framed 1911's. Such as the STI 2011. Which weighs the exact same as a Glock 17.

>>31486280
STI is a no-name, fly-by-night company? Literally *the* competition pistol maker? lawl.

Springfield Armory is a no-name, fly-by-night company?

Para Ordnance is a no-name, fly-by-night company?

Wilson Combat is a no-name, fly-by-night company?

SVI? Nighthawk Custom? Ed Brown? Dan Wesson? Les Baer? Armscor? Rock Island? Caspian? SMITH AND WESSON?

Please. You literally could not be more wrong.

>>31486285
>literally the only possible/valid use for a pistol is as a combat weapon
Just (some) Sigs and (some) CZ's and the BHP have second-strike capability. Literally none of the striker-fired guns do.

An unloaded 1911 is within a couple ounces of an unloaded Glock 17. An unloaded STI 2011 is actually 2oz lighter than an unloaded G40 MOS.

>>31486286
>proprietary mags
Because your Glock mag totally works in your M&P, and your P99 mag totally works in your USP, right? ALL FUCKING PISTOL MAGS ARE PROPRIETARY.

>>31486379
>It is if you're shooting it more than carrying it.
>It isn't if you're carrying it more than shooting it.
Ah, so it's only good as a range gun then, instead of a combat gun. No person using a gun for duty is shooting it more often than they are carrying it, dumbass. If you're only taking it down to the range to shoot and then packing it up, yeah in that case weight is no concern.

>>31486379
>STI is a no-name, fly-by-night company? Literally *the* competition pistol maker? lawl.
>
>Springfield Armory is a no-name, fly-by-night company?
>
>Para Ordnance is a no-name, fly-by-night company?
>
>Wilson Combat is a no-name, fly-by-night company?
>
>SVI? Nighthawk Custom? Ed Brown? Dan Wesson? Les Baer? Armscor? Rock Island? Caspian? SMITH AND WESSON?
>
>Please. You literally could not be more wrong.
Thanks for proving me right.

>>31486372
funnier how salty .45fags get about how they can't even PRETEND that 'stoppan powah' is a legit reason to use their caliber anymore

>>31486374
There was a /k/unt on here who got shot in the arm in the drivers seat of a car with a JHP. It failed to leave his humerus and even break skin on the other side of his arm, let alone his ribcage.

I will trust real-world results over bullshit pedaled by lying sacks of shit tailoring info in the attempt of trying to sell you ammo at $1+/rd.

There is a reason the .mil considers 20" of penetration in TWENTY% ballistics gel to be minimum and sufficient.

>>31486394
Aaaand we're back to the
>the only possible use of a handgun is as a combat weapon
News for ya sweet-cheeks: 99.999999999999% of people who will ever fire a gun will never do so at another living being.

Target guns are 99.99999999999% of the market, and that includes all military small-arms sales. In both the US and globally.

>>31485895
>sao
>low capacity

>>31486413
Wow, did you even read the report? If you did, you woulda seen it was talkin about dat GLAWK FOTAY. not no slow 'n heavy fo-five.

>>31486395
>anything that isn't Glock is a no-name, fly-by-night company
Goddamn you are one dumb motherfucker.

>>31486353
>confirmed for not knowing shit
>the modern Ranger round is the exact same bonded bullet as the HST
>Gold Dots are using older tech dumbass, using it better than anyone else still using it but older and less efficient bullet shaping

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>Hurr muh capacity
>Proceeds to carry a J frame revolver/six round pocket pistol

>>31486379
>It is if you're shooting it more than carrying it.
>
>It isn't if you're carrying it more than shooting it.

Way to tip your hand. We're talking about advances in handgun technology and design. Handguns have always, ALWAYS been considered a defensive weapon to soldiers, police, and smart citizens. The 1911 is a bit of an outlier in regard to its size. Take a look at some of the older semi-autos carried in Europe and ask yourself why many of them tend to be super fucking tiny. It's because they were limited to using steel in the construction, so the only way left to them to reduce weight was to simply reduce the size and amount of material used in the gun. With modern gun technology, steel frame pistols are simply out-dated. You could call it obsolete if you like. It's a very basic concept and the fact that it's so hard for you to wrap your mind around just tells me that you are emotional, irrational, and not worth talking to.

>>31486044
BHPs are double stack 9mm 1911's.

>Search your feelings
>You know this to be true.

>>31486423
Go read the OP post again moron, it's asking about combat use of the 1911 vs other handguns.

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>>31486436
>he insulted my favorite gun maker!!

Call me back when STI moves more than 100,000 units in any five year period.

ITT: Salty 1911fags that honestly believe true drop-in parts, more than 8 rounds, and ease of maintenance are memes.

The 1911 was obsolete as soon as the Hi-Power came out. Even if you are a 45fag, there are much better pistols today.

>>31486435
If you've read the full FBI testing you'd see that .380ACP, 9mm, .40S&W, and .45ACP all got compared and found to be functionally identical in wounding vector.

>>31486423
>News for ya sweet-cheeks: 99.999999999999% of people who will ever fire a gun will never do so at another living being.
>
>Target guns are 99.99999999999% of the market, and that includes all military small-arms sales. In both the US and globally.
>>31485895
>What specific changes relevant to gunfighting have made the 1911 obsolete?
>specific changes relevant to gunfighting
>relevant to gunfighting

>>31486468

Low volume does not mean fly by night faggot. Is Aston Martin a fly by night automobile company?

>>31486479
>true drop-in parts
This really isn't that big of deal if you just buy the parts from the same company that made your gun.

>>31486498
Is Aston Martin relevant at all to the auto market? No.

>>31486419
>There was a /k/unt on here who got shot in the arm in the drivers seat of a car with a JHP. It failed to leave his humerus and even break skin on the other side of his arm, let alone his ribcage.
So a pistol bullet got stopped in a bone and this surprises you? Your single cherrypicked story doesn't change the accuracy of how the modeling works.

>There is a reason the .mil considers 20" of penetration in TWENTY% ballistics gel to be minimum and sufficient.
The military is using BALL AMMO and they aren't going to be getting anything less than 20% no matter how much they would prefer it. HOW CAN YOU BE SO IGNORANT?

>>31486501
You must not have owned a Kimber

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>>31486522
9mm is like a BB from an airgun. 45 is a bullet from a real man's gun.

>>31486000
>everybody knows 9mm is a bee sting .45 can stop a train.
a .22 will kill you fampie since it bounces around in the body

No but all shitposting aside the danish Sirius patrol changed to a .45 because 9mm wouldn't kill charging polar bears

>>31486457
>polymer framed 1911's exist (and are actually good)
>aluminum-alloy framed 1911's exist (and are actually good)
>most major handgun manufacturers still produce metal-framed handguns
>the overwhelming majority of military sidearms in the world continue to be metal framed
You're a fucking retard.

>>31486531
Why would anyone? With Colt, though, in my experience, most parts are generally drop-in. I have not had to replace a barrel, though.

>>31486551
Don't call me a retard if you are going to present a piece of an argument and pretend like you won the debate. There is no modernized 1911 that addresses every single one of the ways I pointed out in >>31486251 how the gun is outdated. Unless you can find an example that addresses all of those points (spoiler: you can't), then shut up and fuck off.

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>>31486537
>i have lost handily, guess i'll just proceed to troll since i'm too sore about 1911s being shown to be antiques
pic related, you

>>31486569
STI 2011 addresses every single one of those points.
>lighter than G34/G40 MOS, has polymer frame
>higher capacity than any Glock short of using G18 mags or the KCI 33rd stilts
>correct-spec picatinny accessory rail
>can be configured to only have thumb safety, only have a decocker (to half-cock), or only have grip safety. Or any mix of the 3.
Thumb safety is superior btw, and most competition guns have the grip safety deleted.
>2011 available with 3 different sizes of grip, each in 2 different thicknesses, with 3 different profiles of MSH
>extended, enlarged, square-front trigger guard
I have average-sized hands for a man and I can literally get both thumbs in the trigger guard of a 1911 and never touch the trigger.

I don't know how people can't recognize a great design and still not believe it's the pinnacle of handgun development.

It holds 8 rounds. I do realize it's single stack and thinner and more comfortable, but it's a full sized handgun. If I can carry 17 in my CZ 75 every day and be fine, I should be able to in a gun that people claim to be the greatest of all time.

It's a .45 pistol. Modern 9mm is very similar ballistically to modern .45, and smaller.

1911 fanboys are possibly one of the worst of the gun community, and there are a bunch of shitty ones.
>hehe i carry a foe-tee-five cuz they don't make a foe-tee-six
Half of the people I see who carry it are fudds, and the other half have hundreds of dollars in modifications to it. The rest of the people seem like an underwhelming minority.

People just aren't willing to accept anything else. I carry a CZ but I have many other guns I like and other brands I use. I like FN, H&K, Sig (from the one pistol they've made that I've shot), S&W, Glock (in a purely practical sense, I'll never own one again), Ruger (sometimes), Beretta (kinda), etc. But everyone who carries a 1911 acts like there's nothing that can beat it.

>>31486624
>STI 2011 addresses every single one of those points.
>lol, just kidding, I mean not ALL of them

Funny how that gun is called a 2011 and not an 1911 anyway.

>>31486626
>>hehe i carry a foe-tee-five cuz they don't make a foe-tee-six
Funny how they'll never take a guy up on carrying a Desert Eagle because "oh well that's too big".

>>31486626
How can anyone call a 100+ year old design the "pinnacle" of anything?

>>31485895
Why isn't the Maxim used anymore? What exactly has changed in machine gunnery?

>>31486636
>literally every single part in it is identical to a Colt's model of 1911 US Army, with the exception of the width of the magwell
Sure it isn't a 1911.

I suppose you're one of those purists that thinks an FN M16A4 isn't an M16 because it isnt made by Colt, or that a Series 80 isn't a 1911 because it isn't a Series 70. Or that an Exeter Sig isn't actually a Sig.

>>31486663
>FN M16A4 isn't an M16 because it isnt made by Colt
But it was Armalite who developed and first produced the M16.

How do Coltfags always manage to forget this?

If it fires bullets that can kill in a straight line, who cares?

>>31486680
Same way Glockfags always manage to forget we've had 8+1 1911 mags since 1939 or that we've had double-stack 1911's since 1972, or that 1911's have been offered in calibers other than .45acp since 1913.

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>>31486661
Ukraine would like a word with you.

>>31486435
not the forday short n weak b-but you lose 2 9mememeters! What if you get ambushed by a pack of snipers?!

>>31485895

Modern peestols have double the capacity and more than a 1911 while also being able to mount optics.

It's still useful and can hold up, it's just that there are things out there that are a little bit better.

>>31485895
Honestly, if CZ made a single stack version of the 97B...there really would be no reason to own a 1911.


The 97 B breaks down almost as fast as a glock, the barrel bushing is a screw on and it's 10 shots standard...only down side is that it's a bit over built and thick and not I deal for small hands and even with large hands I'd recomend replacing the wood or rubber grips with the slim aluminum ones.

But if they made a 97B skinier and slimmer as a 7 or 8 shot single stack...then the 1911 would be dead.

The only thing the 1911 has going for it is that it a metal gun in a market iver flooded with plastic, and some folks don't trust tgeir lives with plastic and buy 1911's, M9A1's etc or even use revolvers.

I own a 1911 from 1943, it was my grandfathers gun that he carried all through the war to the very end, it is a great gun and I shoot it often.... but I carry a Glock 9mm, because it is lighter and more reliable while also holding a good deal more rounds, the game has moved on, if the 1911 was the only thing I had to defend myself then I wouldn't feel bad about it but I'm not going to let nostalgia for an old design put me at a disadvantage if I don't have to.

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>>31485895
Metal frame single stacked

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The amount of misinformation, retardation, mindless parroting, and stupidity in this thread, really reminded me the reason I always assume anything I see on /k/ is wrong.

>this asshurt on a Kenyan rice farming and interpretive dance board over a 105 year old overcomplicated full size single stack gun created by a cultist in his basement.

>Muh stopping power
>Muh accuracy
>Muh other guns suck too so mine is good
>Muh SAO is better somehow
>I LIKE less features!
>I like requiring 20 different tools to work on my gun
>Muh $5000 race gun that can't run unless soaked with oil

>70 series will blow your foot off
>80 series has a dogshit trigger anyway.

Literally no reason to own one. Anyone that actually owns one for other than range toy purposes is a fucking hipster faggot.

the 1911 is not even drop safe

>>31486661
Mobility.
Nothing wrong with the Maxim, however.

>>31486000
>muh stoppan powah

>>31486484
.380 ACP is pathetic

>>31485970

>P220 (single-stack) 8 rounds

Nigga as if the P220 isn't outdated.

To all the fucking amerifags on full damage control: Yes, 7+1 or 8+1 is fucking outdated shit and can get you killed you faggots.

>>31486698

Except that 8+1 is still useless and can get you killed in certain situations (why take this risk) and double-stack 9mm colts suck dick

wtf

>>31485929
Well for one, say you come home and stop carrying for the day. Decocking is easier than unloading and dry firing, even if you lead the hammer with your thumb.

I agree, capacity is an issue. Subcompact variants, like the p938, ate amazing though. Full sized 1911 feels like holding a brick.

>>31486000
>45 ACP is great for stopping fights

>http://www.copblock.org/157248/officer-shoots-undercover-cop-9-times/
>Brachle fires twice, repositions himself, then shoots another six times into the vehicle, emptying his magazine filled with .45-caliber, hollow-point bullets.

M-MUH STOPPAN POWA

>>31487996
Says the man who has never been shot with .380

>>31488006
>>31488016
Then why do people carry 6+1 Sig p938s and other single stack pocket guns? Carry a spare mag.

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>>31485895
>What specific changes relevant to gunfighting have made the 1911 obsolete?
pistols became lighter, more reliable, more accurate, more capacious.

>If it worked back then, why can't it work now?
pic related.

>>31486307
Kek

Capacity > power when it comes to actual ""gunfighting""

If some nigger breaks down your fucking door at 3 am and you pop out of bed, half awake, probably scared shitless (inb4 leos tell me how badass they are), you are not in optimal condition for shooting people and you WILL miss shots. Assuming you actually hit, nigger isn't gonna realize you shot him until the adrenalin wears off, so you want to put as many bullets into the fucker as possible to have the best chance of hitting something that will take him down immediately.

I'm speaking as a homeowner that had to kill a guy who broke into my house. I shoot competitively and consider myself a decent marksman. That night, I fired 9 shots and hit him twice, he shot 3 at me and didn't hit shit. The second time I hit him I got him in the upper spine and he died in the hospital. I was using a M9 beretta.

Shit fucks you up by the way, it's been 3 years and I still feel fucking terrible. I saw the kid's mom later on, she came by to talk to me. She wasn't really mad, she came by to tell me she understood but really wished I'd tried to talk it out. It was devestating.

>>31488119

>more accurate

You're arguing that M1911s aren't accurate.

Oh man.

>>31485972
>semi-automatic actions
>but those are of dubious benefit anyway

[fedora tipping intensifies]

>>31488238
Shoulda fucked his mom while you were at it.

>>31486052
What a terrible argument. We're discussing why a 1911 is an outdated design, and you suggest something totally different from the original design makes it better.

>>31486070
Why only 8 rounds from a 1911 rather than 9, 10, 11 from a more modern gun?

>>31488102
Why do people drive without their seat belts? Because some people are retarded.

>>31488238
>really wished I'd tried to talk it out
You did anon, in the only language he was going to understand.

I'm glad you're alive.

>>31488245
the military models weren't, as proven during the XM9 trials where the 1911s scored unacceptable in the accuracy test.

>>31485917
Your post would have been valid if you used the garand or the Sks instead of two completely different actions

>>31486547
The Danes use glock20s...

>>31489112
I wanted to emphasize how dumb OP's question was; a little exaggeration assisted with that.

>>31486663
>>literally every single part in it is identical to a Colt's model of 1911 US Army
You just spent an entire post proving how different from the 1911 it is. Fucking idiot.

>>31488006
Where the hell are you from where you can blanket insult Americans and carry a gun?

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>>31486227

He's right though. Most people are going to be down for the count after 2 rounds of anything. Whether it be a .22lr or a 10mm. I'm relatively unbiased on this subject as I like the higher capacity and lighter weight of modern handguns but I also like the slim profile and the way the grip fits in my hand so I can appreciate both.

>>31489890
Probably one of the many other countries where you can buy a pistol? Just a guess.

There's 2 things I hear repeated a lot:

1. The caliber of a gun makes no difference in a "gun fight" is a statistical fact.
2. Trigger is one of the most important things, a good trigger is why guns like the PPQ get a ton of praise when they wouldn't otherwise.

Consider the above.
1. All the arguments against .45acp are irrelevant.
2. Since 1911's have the best triggers in the world, they're among the best handguns in the world.

So, to answer your questions OP. No, they are not out of date.

>>31488006
>7+1 is outdated
>Meanwhile there are people everywhere carrying pocket pistols with 6-7+1 9mm, such as the Sig P938, Sig P290, M&P shield, etc.

The argument isn't that the 1911 doesn't have enough to sustain itself in a firefight. The argument is that for its size and weight, there are better options that will hold more ammunition, be lighter in weight, smaller and better concealed, and more comfortable to carry. I always carry a spare mag with my cc, and I personally believe 21 rounds is either too much or not nearly enough. If something like the paris attacks happened near me, and I lived long enough to engage until I ran out of ammo, I'm sure my first though would be "Fuck, I wish I had more ammo."

That's why the idea of most pocket pistols doesn't appease me. To be fair though, most pocket pistols like the 938 carry 6+1. A spare mag and that's 13 rounds. That's uncomfortable for me, but in most situations it's a light and very well concealed gun, in which pocket pistols get most of their benefit. No printing, especially when laying down or following orders, is in my opinion a crucial thing to have.

In any instance, it comes down to preference and what the person wants. More ammo and a double stack, or less ammo and a very easily concealed pistol. The 1911 loses out in both concepts.

>>31490134
To clarify, a full sized single stack 1911 loses out in both concepts. Small variants based on the design, such as the P938, are superior pocket pistols.

The 1911 is indeed outdated. It is by no means obsolete, and a few modifications (doublestack polymer frame) make it just as capable as whatever plastic-fantastic wonder-9 you can name.

Worst thing about it is field strip, but even that isn't horrible. Regardless, in single stack form its still one of the thinnest pistols on the market, and an aluminum frame commander is under 30 oz, which is easily light enough for CC. It would only be inappropriate for deep concealment situations, but it can be done in a pinch.

Well, it's large and heavy for what you get (a single-stack 8+1 in an outdated, but not obsolete calibre), and it's certainly harder to take down and maintain than a modern design. That being said, the 1911 is comfy and ASTHETIC as fuck.

>>31490134
>>7+1 is outdated
>>Meanwhile there are people everywhere carrying pocket pistols with 6-7+1 9mm, such as the Sig P938, Sig P290, M&P shield, etc.

A full size service pistol and a back up pocket pistol are apples and oranges.

>>31485895
I love the 1911, and don't think it's outdated, but do think that quote in OP's pic is a bit cringeworthy.

>>31490255
>The argument is that for its size and weight, there are better options that will hold more ammunition, be lighter in weight, smaller and better concealed, and more comfortable to carry.

Please re-read and try again.

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>>31486379
>Literally none of the striker-fired guns do
Ahem.

>>31488041

it's trivially easy to unload the gun.

like holy shit it's easy.

anyone here CC a .22?

>>31490603
I do... my body is ready.

>>31490364
The FN Forty-Nine also has restrike capability. HK VP70 as well, IIRC.

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>>31486056
>falling for the glock meme

>>31490115
The wound difference between calibers is irrelevant, the fact that you can carry a lot more rounds of 9mm over .45 is not. 9mm is the better choice.

>>31490603
Rimfire ammo has really poor reliability, so I hope not

>>31491007
I'm the one carrying .22. My SR22 is reliable.

>>31488238
Should have used a a revolver. You would have actually aimed and .357 magnum or .45 long colt would have done more damage than a 9mm.

>>31490603
I do. Buck Mark with tactical solutions barrel and a three back up mags.

All with velocitors

>>31490976
Incorrect, I can't remember who did their doctoral thesis on studying the outcome different caliber and handgun type and it's correlation to the outcome of defensive shootings but they found, statistically, it absolutely does not matter, there is no trend. One is not better than the other.
Your argument is invalid.

I thought we were done with these threads two years ago.
1911fags, 1911s are great, maybe even the best design of its time or tge most influential handgun but it does have drawbacks and it is not the absolute gold standard. .45 also doesnt make elephants explode.
Glockfags, Yes glocks are reliable, yes they are the most cost effective and functional gun of their time. Weight is not an issue and capacity is still not much worse than other .45s for its benefits. Also .45 does have some inherent benefits

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>>31485909
It's 8+1.

You can get a commander size and then it's still 8+1.

>>31485911
4) is your only complaint that makes any sense

>>31491390
Yeah aside from when there are more nogs to shoot than you have rounds faggot

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>>31491553
>.45 also doesnt make elephants explode
That's why you need 45 super.

Or the 460 kit for the commander 1911 that will make it about the size of a normal government model with the compensator.

That'll explode an elephant real good

>>31491597
Caliber, capicity, unless you start reducing to absurdity, they don't matter. 7 shots or 15, for a conceal carry piece, it doesn't matter. Most defensive shootings are 1 to 3 shots, that's it.

What matters is that the bullet goes where you want it to. For most people, chasing excellence in accuracy, the trigger is the big factor, 1911's have the best trigger.

Ergo, a 1911 is a great defensive gun, >IF< you can carry it comfortably. If not than a kel-tec 9mm will do you just fine.

Personally, I own the full variety and like them all. OP asked if the 1911 is outdated. It isn't.

>>31491636
>most
That's not all of them faggot. Most people won't need a handgun to defend themselves ever. We're not carrying guns for when everything goes right. You carry a gun with higher capacity so when Jamal and Bubba and their 3 coked up buddies decide to come into Starbucks and rape your bf you actually have enough rounds to handle things. It's it likely? No. But it's certainly possible. There's no reason to carry fewer rounds when you can carry more in the same space. Fuck off with your opinions

>>31491752
There is no correlation with reality and your claims.
I'm talking about when people actually needed a gun.
Maybe you should just open carry a SAW everywhere.

>>31491752
>Statistics, records going back decades functioning as a mathematical proof is now opinion.
mmkay, thanks for playing.

>>31486079
Magnum rounds exist for stopping fights.

>>31491299
The man was completely incapacitated after 2 bullets, what more could he have accomplished?

>>31491787
Statistically, crimes are becoming more common in groups of 2 or more, while crimes committed by single aggressors are becoming less common. Imagine for a second you need to engage two or three people.

>>31485895
There are better 45acp guns for the same weight or less . With more capacity and better materials

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>>31491905

>>31491764
>>31491787
>didn't refute the point
Shocking. There is no reason to carry a .45 when you can carry a greater number of 9mm rounds in the same space

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>>31486307

Top kek.

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>>31486507

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>>31486307

kek

>>31492515
Unless that. 45 has a better trigger and you shoot out better, which many do.

This was the whole point. You ignore the caliber debate, because it doesn't matter.
The gun you shoot best with is the best choice. For many people that's the 1911 due in no small part to is outstanding trigger

>7+1 boolets for a full sized handgun
>not 10mm