>tfw no SCAR Is any place even taking back orders for them?

>>31463135
They're filling their military contracts first. Should probably be another shipment around February I think.

>>31463135
Its been about a year now since significant inventories of the SCAR were found.

I've seen multiple 17s at the range lately, along with many more AR308s as well lately.

I assume demand for .308 has really gone up. I guess everyone is either into long range or hunting now?

>>31463135
FN creates scarcity to drive the price up.
>>31463155
>SCAR
>Military contracts
Good one

>>31465205

Not for the US, dipshit.

Also, they don't have SCAR factories seperate from Minimi factories and shit, it doesn't work like that.

>>31465146

/brg/ has just gotten really popular.

>>31465213
US orders are made at American FN dumbass.
Civilian orders are from Belgium.

>>31465223

And guess what? FN won the contract to be the sole supplier of Belgium's small arms.

Why does everyone like the SCAR so much? I'm not trying to troll or start an argument over why gun x is better than gun y. I would just like to know about them. Only things I know about the rifle are that they're expensive and use .308 rounds. Can some SCAR owners tell me what drew you to this rifle and made you want one?

>>31465249

They're neat. Ergos are good.

Purely personal preference.

>>31465241
What a huge contract!

>>31465249
It's a CoD gun

>>31465255

Whatever dude. You're actually retarded. I told you why they're exporting less civilian shit, because they're concerned with meeting the contract requirements over the American civilian market. These are facts.

If you have any other questions, please direct yourself to FN Herstal.

>it's manufactured scarcity!
>actually it's a military contract
>SCARs aren't used by the military!
>yeah but the factories that make SCARs make other shit, too
>civilian imports are from Belgium!
>yeah, the Belgian government is who the contract is for
>Belgium is small!

What next, dude?

>>31465278
How young are you kid?
FN has been doing this shit since the SCAR became for sale.

>>31465278
>Implying it's just one contract.
The whole series of models from small frame .223 guns to the mk20 have been getting procured in assorted quantities all over the world.

>>31465249
I like it because its different to a degree. I already have 4 AR's in varying calibers, I didn't want a 5th. The folding stock is nice and for a 762 rifle its not too bad in the weight department. The only thing im not too crazy about is the reciprocating CH, but that was specified in the design requirements. Its more of a personal preference thing than a design issue.

>>31465286

>he is proven wrong
>he looks like am idiot
>so he calls me a child

I'm done talking to you, stupid.

>SCARs are just fancy ARs! They should cost less!
>but dozens of manufacturers make ARs, FN owns the SCAR
>psh, nothing personnel, kid

>>31465306
Listen kid. Sine the scar came out a few years back FN has always released small batches. It's to create scarcity. Even going as far as to only bring black guns over to raise the fde prices.

Nothing new here, champ.

>>31465301

I know, it's several contracts, but the most recent one, and largest so far, has been the sole supplier of Belgian military and police. That's the contract they're talking about most.

I think we're on the same side.

>>31465316

>I look sillier
>he's onto me
>I'll keep calling him a child

Okay bucko bear.

>>31465327
You got me kid.

FN totally doesn't sell the SCAR in batches. Doesn't bring more black guns than FDE over. Nope.

Not at all.

>>31465249
I'm a PTR owner who got to shoot some fagot's SCAR a few times. It's really impressive how much the SCAR tames the recoil from a 308, it felt more like shooting a 7.62x39. If I wanted a second battle rifle I'd probably skip the FAL and shell out for a SCAR.

>>31465304
That's another factor, there's something very satisfying about owning something different. People are more interested than they would be about just another AR-15.

>>31465341
When you've been on /k/ since summer vacation started, by this time of year your a goddamned expert.

>When is the gear up for fall promo going to start!

>>31465341

Alright, tiny, barely literate infant. Actual embryo.

Your zygote mind can't comprehend market share and customer base.

How can a fetus even use the internet? Do placentas come with wi-fi now?

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>>31465371

>>31465352
That said many people just judge a gun based on the sized hole it makes relative to the price. While thats important (arguably whats most important), /k/ would be a very boring place if all everyone owned was Anderson and PSA Ar15's, bare bones PTR's, and Glock 19's.

Not than any of those things are bad, but theres more to buying a gun than its pure utilitarianism

>>31465396
>But cheapo .308 ARs are cheaper than PTRs

>>31465408
Are they? I'll admit I'm largely ignorant when it comes to .308 AR's. I know the big, more expensive names like KAC, LWRC, LMT and Aero on the lower end. Whats the Anderson equivalent for AR10s?

>>31465435
Alexandria pro fab
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XPF30818U8459900

Lower is like $125-150 + lpk

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>>31465205
>being retarded to justify your irrational hatred of a product

>>31465504
I don't hate the SCAR though?

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>>31465249
You can tell it's a great firearm by how many butthurt faggots hate on it.
Or you can just take my opinion because I own one.
>reliability, extremely reliable
>ergonomics (as comfortable and usable as an AR, but simple manual of arms like an AK, but better)
>piston driven
>lower recoil (I'm not arguing about this again for an hour with people who haven't ever shot the gun)
>Uses AR mags
Mine is a 16s (in 5.56). .308 is for people who don't leave the bench and when they do, carry one mag to hunt deer with.
But I'm only saying that because I know people who don't have 16s or 17s will have a problem with me owning a gun that isn't in a fudd caliber.
>>31465262
This poster meant to say "The only experience I have with the gun is in COD".
>>31465286
>>31465316
>>31465341
Fuck off, kid.

>>31465557
>airshit parts
>that grip
>"Take my opinion"
Ya straight to the dumpster.

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Why is it taking so long for FN to release this?

>>31465575

My suspicion is that the long range precision market is already saturated with bolt actions and ARs.

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>>31463135

1. Election
2. Batch rotation
3. Belgium just ordered it for their entire military
4. South Carolina plant is busy producing MK20 receivers so that there won't be as much of a shortage when it launches.

>tfw german
>SCARs not allowed because they are considered "weapons of war"
>ARs, some AKs, AUGs and all the other stuff is still allowed

>>31465570
>can't tell the difference between gun parts and airsoft parts
>What is a MOE-K2+
>your opinion is bad because I'm retarded
Yea...I'm gunna stop replying to you now.

>>31465599
Not a valid reason, the development costs have already been spent. It's going to be related to the spotty availability of SCARs in general or some issue with civilian version that needs to be ironed out.

The Mk20 in military hands all say it's a ~.5moa gun. There is always room for that. Even if the wild pricing rumors are true.

>>31465610
Theres no fucking way that is a K2+ looking at that grip angle, and he's shitting on your AFG anyway.

>>31465610
>grip hanging off the lower because he didn't shave the lower or grip
>still having an opinion
Nope kiddo.

>>31465646
If you say so.
>>31465648
>telling people to "shave the lower (receiver)"
>accusing others' opinions of being trash

>>31465648
>This fag doesn't know about based PMM

>>31465634

> Destroying your yearly earnings report by releasing a product where it's not going to sell because of sunken costs related to military procurement

This is all conjecture, of course. All the other reasons you listed are just as valid.

>>31465670
>paying someone to shave the grip for you
Dad doesn't let you new the power tools, huh?

>>31465683
I use the ERGO SCAR grip. No need to shave nothing.

>>31465683
>He doesn't outsource menial tasks to experienced professionals.
Tell me more about how you don't value your time.

>>31465731
I bet you pay a gunsmith to clean your rifle too.

>>31465746
>Clean your rifles
Topkek

>>31465731
This is hands down the worst post I've ever seen on /k/. This post alone makes me question whether or not I should stay here in the company of someone who would actually make a post like this. This is just terrible. It's awful.

>>31465772
You need to lurk more.

>>31465772
This is hands down the worst post I've ever seen on /k/. This post alone makes me question whether or not I should stay here in the company of someone who would actually make a post like this. This is just terrible. It's awful

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>>31465789
Nice

One thing that really stuck out for me and makes me want the 16 to go with my 17s, is if the battlefield Vegas video with Mr.gunsandgear. While interviewing the armorer, he mentions that the scar 16 they have has had around 200,000 rounds through it and it's only on the 3rd barrel and they only replaced a broke hammer.

I ask this every thread. Can anyone quantify what, exactly, makes the SCAR so much better than anything else?

Emphasis on exactly. Saying muh accuracy muh reliability without anything to substantiate is the same thing as saying "its just better"

>>31465818
70-80k round barrel life makes the high replacement cost much more bearable

>>31465832
This question has already been asked and some serious answers given. If they don't work for you, then try asking a different questions.

>>31465832

I'm not aware of any side charging, 8lbs .308 semi auto with a short stroke/tappet action, that posts <1.5 moa rifle despite a pencil thin barrel.

It's also a gun with a profile that is immediately recognizable as unique in a market awash in ARs.

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>>31465557
16s... My dude!

>>31465832
For me
Ergonomics, short throw levers, placement of controls. I did replace the stock selectors and trigger. Reciprocating charging handle that can swap sides, or have one on both. Folding, angled, whatever you want. Folding and telescoping stock that is comfy as fuck.
Lightweight, can be made light enough to get to Cooper spec scout rifle.
Kitten recoil
The aftermarket, sweet mother the aftermarket
Accurate enough for .308 and a short barrel.
Perhaps the most reliable semi auto rifle out there.
Parts are built for longevity that is amazing. Barrel life is almost as many rounds as an AK receiver life.

So in general, everything, it's a superior rifle. And I'm sure I missed something

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I personally love mine. Able to get sub MOA often not always. Really smooth shooter but yeah fucking expensive.

>>31465849
>not answering the question
???
>>31465870
So it's better because it's side charging and looks pretty?

>>31465926
I wouldn't say it's so much better than it is different. I own a few higher end AR's and I like the recoil impulse on my SCAR, I also like not having to clean it even remotely as much. The thing is absurdly reliable, and the bolt itself and some of the carrier pieces are a bit beefier. No one thing makes it master race, just a great rifle overall.

>>31465926
IDK maybe you should read the thread or perhaps maybe even google it yourself. Even now you're cherrypicking posts to reply to just to satiate your need for shitposting. The reason you have to ask the same question every thread is because you have no interest in learning anything from people who actually bought one. Its one thing to not like it for whatever reason, but to feign ignorance regarding why people like SCARs and to continue to ask the same retarded question makes you a stupid cunt.

>>31465926
Btw here are the posts you chose to glaze over that explain why some people like them

>>31465254
>>31465304
>>31465352
>>31465557
>>31465818
>>31465902

>>31465966
I like how instead of offering anything substantial which would seemingly be so easy for an expert like you waste so much time and energy bitching about the question instead.
>>31465902
>>31465948
These are good answers, thank you.

>>31465988
I asked you to explain why specifically, not just "because I like it" dipshit.

Though the anon who brought up the battlefield Vegas visit has a good point.

>>31465609
It's because they're scary.

>>31465845

There is no damn way that thing does not lose significant accuracy over 70000k rounds. Otherwise, every .308 shooter would be running FN barrels in their bolt actions, since a .308 barrel holding accuracy at just 10000 rounds is considered damn good.

>>31465926
No one's claiming it's better you turbo autist. We're just saying why we like them. Fuck off back to your AR thread.

>>31465989
>>31466003
Nothing said here hasn't been said in previous SCAR threads. I can't wait for you to ask the same question in the next thread, I may even give you a (you) in the next one, you fucking child.

>>31465926

You can run a higher end AR if you prefer something in a similar or higher price range, but most of them are pig heavy for anything but a bench or a stand.

LMTs come in at 10lbs unloaded, KACs is like 15lbs (wtf?), and the HK417 is just over 9lbs.

>>31465278
honestly FN might make more money selling to the american civ market than the belgium military. It boggles me that we forget just how pigfat bloated our runaway country is, we are the size of the entirety of Europe for fucks sake, with a gun shop in every city

>>31466062
>spends all his time insulting and shit flinging over a simple question
>calls others children
LOL k

>accurate
>magically-low recoil
>rule of cool -- "best battle rifle on civilian market"
>price under $4000
>eats any and all ammunition you feed it

I let anyone shoot my scar17 at the range when they ask, just because I know that it'll make their entire range trip. Then they return to their AKs and their ARs, wondering how they can get rid of them for enough money for a down payment on a scar.

>>31466103
Or because they're using heavy barrels...

>>31466119
>rule of cool
I forget sometimes that neo/k/ like nutnfaggy.

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>>31463135
MFW I don't have this feel

>>31466122

I don't think those companies even offer lighter barrel options though.

>>31466171
That's not their market.
LMT and KAC specifically sell DMR type rifles to militaries.

>>31466171
KAC does. The ACC, 8.4lbs
https://www.knightarmco.com/sr-25-e2-advanced-combat-carbine/?cate_cm=commercial&term=sr-25&features=sr-25-e2-acc

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>>31466130
I've never seen nutnfancy and I've been on /k/ long enough to be your internet grandpa.

"Rule of Cool" is much, much older than nutnfancy, you fucking newfag.

>>31466130
We've always liked nutn, but make fun of his autism.

>>31466201
>>31466203
>neo/k/ the posts
K

>>31466211
Been here longer than you fagatron

>>31466194

Neat. Glad to see some competition for the higher end carbine market that isn't 10lbs.

>>31466226
Especially since KAC has dialed in the chroming process, their barrels are about as accurate now as FNs, used to be 2moa.

>>31466249

Jesus, how did they ever win the M110 contract with 2 moa? Assuming an 8" target, that's a maximum range of 400y.

>>31466249
>>31466274
>this shot out barrel is 2moa so all KAC barrels are 2moa.
Let me guess you're the same retards that say the SR25 mags are shit because they get reused a million times and then fail also?

>>31463135
>he fell for the SCAR meme

Just buy an AR

>>31466274
M110 has a target barrel, the ACC is much thinner. First few years they just weren't super accurate, needed to be dialed in. The ECC/target rifles were always great shooters.

>>31466308
Get a load of this fag. Holy shit, cunts like you are why we can't have nice things.

>>31463135
I really want a 17s, but it's expensive. I know why it is but still. I don't like how some the the accessories are stupidly expensive, I guess that's just the nature of the beast

So here's my next question - how much does a scar actually cost FN? Obviously they're marked up because R&D, demand, etc. But I'm curious how much they cost raw.

>>31466492

The semi-auto .308 market as a whole is overpriced, honestly. Fortunately (or not, I guess), I have to save up enough money to buy 10+ acres of land before I would have a use case anyway.

>>31466547
Not a whole lot, but probably more than most people seem to think simply due to how high quality they are.

Injection molded plastic parts everywhere.
Extruded aluminum receiver.
CHF barrel. Which is a good thing, but actually comes at low cost per barrel.
Very few machining steps on parts like the bolt carrier. Look how simple it is.

The FN engineers did a good job designing a really good rifle that is really cheap to produce. Civilians pay the FN tax because it's a high demand gun.

Same thing goes for the P90/PS90 but to an even higher degree.

>>31466605
>Civilians pay the FN tax because it's a high demand gun
More like they pay the idiot tax because they bought a meme gun since teh l33t operaters use it xD lol

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>>31463135
>ITT: Poor people hating things they can't afford
Fucking kids ruin everything. I have yet to see ANY legitimate criticism.

>>31466667
Being expensive is a legitimate criticism.

>>31466667
When you can buy an AR that's just as good for half the price with a more expansive, cheaper aftermarket, there's no reason to buy a SCAR unless you wanna be a special snowflake and flash your cash around like a faggot.

>>31466106
No. Even if the Belgian government only purchased 1000 guns, that is a bigger single purchase than anything the American civilian market will do for months. And they almost certainly ordered more than 1000. Probably something like 50000 or so. Considering the volatile nature of guns to civilians, especially from overseas companies prior to a election, yeah they made a smart business move. If nothing happens politically, they still made a huge profits and can safely reimport to a market they have cornered at will.

>>31466547
They sell 16s to departments for just under $999 sometimes. So somewhere around there.

>>31466832
They're not selling them at cost. If they sell at $1000 then FN makes them well below that, low enough to pay the power bills, pay employee salaries, and the hundreds of other expenses associated with running a business the size of FNH that aren't directly related to the exact cost of production.

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You can get them for under 4k. That's not too bad for a good rifle in high demand.

There are over 20 of these just on broker alone

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/587140606

It's not terrible... for a rifle that you can count on as a go-to MBR/DMR, use a suppressor and dial your gas settings, have sub MOA accuracy with correct ammo, low recoil and good handling.

FN is smoked right now and it's hard to even get them on the phone. There are other decent MBR options out there but they are just not SCARs.

Just pony up the extra coin and sell a rifle you don't want and go for it. reee

>>31466865
>You can get them for under 4k. That's not too bad for a good rifle in high demand.
>4K
>not too bad

Get out of here Alex you trustfund shiester.

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>>31466714
>has never shot a SCAR
>forgets that reliability is actually an important issue

Show me an AR-10 that is as reliable, light and accurate all at once and I'll bite.

>flashing cash

some of us realize that just because you own something nice doesn't mean you will get GF and friends by waving it around, rather it's the opposite, you will get criticized and spit on by people like yourself.

>>31466889
>le AR is unreliable meme
Found the 13 year old.

>Show me an AR-10 that is as reliable, light and accurate all at once and I'll bite.
t. a guy who's never had an AR-10

>you will get criticized and spit on by people like yourself
Yeah, because wasting money based on a meme is stupid, and so are you if you do it.

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>>31466888
oh you got me

>>31466931
>fails to answer the question

I'll say it again: show me an AR-10 that is statistically as reliable as the SCAR 17.

The AR-10 is a good platform but it has inherent functional problems that make it finicky. Go buy a brand new Sig AR10, a brand new Ruger AR10, etc. and you will have FTF/FTW/jam issues and become yet another gluten free pizza crust imageboard statistic.

They are not "bad" but they are not AS inherently reliable. This is one reason why the SCAR 17 is so popular in its class.

>>31466955
You understand you can build them, right? That they don't all have to be out of the box?

>>31466889
https://www.knightarmco.com/sr-25-e2-advanced-combat-carbine/?cate_cm=commercial&term=sr-25&features=sr-25-e2-acc

Almost as light

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>>31466931
>wasting money on a meme

are you the one who made the SCAR hate thread and you still have plenty of salt left to keep going? How many of you guys are there, about 3-4? Or is there actually more of you?

You cannot into funxtionality, usability, capitalism or supply / demand and think $3k-$4k is a fortune so you spend your energy making fun of anyone who decides they want to purchase a SCAR.

You know why?

Because you don't have one. And you really want one.

>>31466985
Oh gee no I had no idea

>>31466997
>costs more than a SCAR

get out

>>31466998
>Yesterday's SCAR rage thread
That was a riot.
Nothing brings out the haters quite like the SCAR.

>>31466998
Honestly, I wish I wanted one. It's not like I can't afford one, I've got plenty of guns worth more. But I don't see the need for a semi .308 period, at least for my personal situation, so I shitpost.

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The Fox and the Grapes is one of the Aesop's fables,[1] numbered 15 in the Perry Index.[2] The narration is concise and subsequent retellings have often been equally succinct. The story concerns a fox that tries to eat grapes from a vine but cannot reach them. Rather than admit defeat, he states they are undesirable. The expression "sour grapes" originated from this fable.[3]

>>31466998
>are you the one who made the SCAR hate thread
Nope, I'm the guy who makes M14 hate threads :^)

Battle rifle fanboys are so easy to enrage it's almost not fair.

>You cannot into funxtionality, usability, capitalism or supply / demand and think $3k-$4k is a fortune
You have that backwards. See, a shrewd Capitalist doesn't waste money just because he can. It doesn't have to be a fortune to be retardedly overpriced, it just needs to be significantly more expensive than a comparable product based on reputation alone. The SCAR is the crApple of guns. You're paying for the name.

>Because you don't have one. And you really want one.
Lol no. Trolling aside, I just prefer the AR-10 for a multitude of reasons, but mostly because of the aftermarket support. The SCAR is more expensive than a decent AR-10 and doesn't have even a 10th the aftermarket.

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>>31467063
>You're paying for the name.

So the generic SCARS are just as good?

where can i buy one of those

>>31465249
honestly i shot one and in comparison to my AR i like it way better. It performs god dam well and people are mad cuz its not a"murica gun"

>>31467063
>Shrewd capitalist
Your not amortizing the amount of ammunition and parts into your calculations clearly.

Either that or you dont shoot much

>>31467116
The Mac vs PC comparison is pretty accurate here. With Mac/SCAR you're paying a premium up front for an off the shelf solution that's a little nicer than most off the shelf solutions from the competition, but also you're paying for the name and the reputation. With the PC/AR-10, it's extremely versatile and efficient because it's cheaper and has a huge aftermarket, with the potential to have vastly superior performance, but you have to have the know-how and patience to assemble it yourself to get that superior performance.

>>31467150
Actually I am. AR-10 parts are cheaper and more available, meaning cost over service life is still reduced. Ammunition isn't going to be more or less with either platform so it's irrelevant in this scenario. Well, unless you take into account that AR-10s can be easily built in calibers besides .308, another benefit to them, but one that could potentially impact ammo cost, thought it doesn't have to unless you want it to.

>>31467189
>the potential to have vastly superior performance

detail please

>>31467209
With access to the huge aftermarket for AR parts you can get much better triggers, lighter weight parts, better quality parts, all manner of other improvements.

The SCAR has a Giessele two stage and a half-hearted offering from Timmny, one or two handguards, and AR pistol grips. That's about it.

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>>31467189
>>31467238
What reputation? Oh right the failed socom rifle and CoD/Battlefield gamer cred.

SCAR has nothing over other alternatives,

>>31467238
so you are saying that there are "vastly better" triggers for the AR10 than the Geiselle offering for the Scar? Which one would that be?

handguards and pistol grips? dozens of them.

I can see the argument that "there are lots more aftermarket parts available for the AR10 platform" but "vastly superior performance" is not a legitimate statement.

It's a great rifle, but it's not good enough over the alternatives to justify adopting it or shelling out the cash for one.

Granted if you just want a range toy that's irrelevant.

>>31467189
But ammunition costs are important for comparing the total cost of ownership. And being more available doesn't drop the cost lower than what they are now.

And your still not getting QD functionality with your barrels, unless your running LMT and getting OEM, or that one dude converting barrels. And your still not getting the left side charging handle unless you've got an repr (and I hope your magwell isn't undersized), and your still not getting a folding stock, unless you get the one adapter, but even then you can't fire more than one shot while folded.

You have simpler needs it sounds like.

>>31467270
The shooting site SCAR trigger

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>>31467345
>range toy

>>31465316
poorfag underage b& coming in hot with the autistic projections

>>31467443

With the rare exception of CC pistols, rednecks shooting game, or the rare LEO, every gun on /k/ is a range toy. That's not really a dig.

>>31467485
Ad hominem attacks are so boring.

The gist I'm getting for this thread is that, among the military contract .308 rifles, FNs rifle is actually the least expensive offering, correct?

>>31466341
>don't buy what I can't afford

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>>31463135
>tfw bought scar a week before all the shootings

>>31465557
>he bought one in 556
What a fucking joke. The 308 version is the only version anyone wants, because the 16 is garbage.
>hurr 17 so heavy
You've never compared then have you
Even if you did you would stick a shit vortex onot it anyways

>>31467599
The 16 is actually the best 5.56 rifle you can get out of box. Only difference is there isn't as much of a power gap like with the 17.

>>31467599
Have you only learned about guns from /k/?
Holy hell.

>>31467619
Wrong. If it cost 1,000 you would be correct. At the 2.5-3k price range there are a host of better options.
If the 16 was so amazing why didn't it get adopted by fucking anyone

>>31467644
God forbid I think a rifle that before you even start putting shit on it costs three times the price of an equivalent.

>to clarify, I have no issues with the 17.
>the 16 however is for snowflakes who think they're hot shit

>>31467619

I agree with this. And would go on to say that the SCAR 16 is possibly the single best 5.56 or intermediate cartridge rifle full stop.

You can't upgrade an AR to make up for it's shortcomings vs the SCAR platform. The mechanical differences aren't something aftermarket compensates for.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?62889-SCAR-vs-AR-A-detailed-look

You're right, the 17 is better vs other 308 platforms, but the 16 is still a top tier rifle.

>>31467692

Because no 5.56 system is "better" enough to justify changing out an entire manual of arms / armory system.

Government contracts are a pretty shit way to determine quality. The marines don't wear a lot of Patek Philippes either but that doesn't invalidate them as a pinnacle of their industry.

>>31467692
Such as?

>>31467692

You're talking about value, not quality. You need to appreciate that they're not the same thing.

Legitimate question:

If I shelled out for a $2500 parts-built AR-10, do you think it would perform better or worse than an off-the-shelf SCAR 17?

>>31467816

Define "better."

You can get / make a more accurate AR10 than an off the shelf SCAR but you can't make an AR10 like a SCAR in most other respects.

>>31467847
I don't really care about the DI vs short-stroke debate.

I just want a battle rifle I can get 1 MOA or better groups with.

>>31467866
And won't shit the bed after 500 shots, obviously.

I don't mind building an AR. I'm not new to it, and it's kinda fun.

I guess I should ask: what's the difference in the magazines available? I assume they take different kinds.

>>31467866

Buy a bolt gun.

If you want semiauto to punch paper with or maybe for 3 gun, build an AR10. It'll be more accurate for less and lighter weight to boot.

If you want a combat oriented battle rifle, the SCAR is worth the price. The 17 isn't intended to be a precision rifle. It's a battle rifle. The 20 is the precision platform.

>>31467921
>combat oriented battle rifle

How is an AR-10 not a "combat oriented battle rifle?" What, is it too accurate or something?

>The 17 isn't intended to be a precision rifle
Then why slap a fucking $2500 price tag on it?

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>>31465249
Lightest yet softest shooting .308 battle rifle.

RFB > SCAR

>>31467943

We discussed this above. "Is it worth the price?" is a value question. "Is it good or not" is a quality question. You can conditionally answer no to one and yes to the other. Value is subjective.

>>31467816
You'd still have the poor charging handle, non folding stock, higher recoil impulse.

>>31467921
It's possible to get an AR 10 lighter. But you can get a SCAR down to like 7.5lbs or less.

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>>31468128

Maybe. My SCAR 16 is a fat bitch at ~10.5lbs and while I could always use a lighter optic mount, optic, and ditch the flashlight. I'm not sure how you can get a decent optic on a 17 and keep it below 8lbs.

You can carbon fiber and skellington up an AR10 pretty easily, though I'm honestly not sure why you would want to.

>>31467816
With that kind of budget and some research into what you're buying you should be getting a quality rifle. I think you'd be satisfied with its accuracy and reliability, though I don't think it would be as reliable as the SCAR if you are using it in a life or death situation.

>>31468110

This. I'm not sure why some people consider a reciprocating charging handle to be an issue. It's a feature and was included by request.

>>31467599
>MEMES MEMES MEMES MEMES MEMES
Fucking kill yourself nogunz

>>31468268
FDE is always the answer. All 6 shades of it.

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Going to get a Scar 17 but can't decide if I want it in black or FDE

>>31468273
Alright will go with FDE

>>31465832
Accuracy are reliability is about the same as other BR platforms (assuming we are talking about the scar h) where it wins is in weight and ergonomics. So unless you have the money to buy and actually use the scar as an actually BR and not a safe queen, the only reason to by the SCAR is if you are weak and not coordinated enough to work a paddle mag release

>>31468286

Think of the lack of a uniform color as camouflage!

>>31468244

In a "life or death" scenario the presence of a gun itself is enough to deter most people, in the case where shots are fired in self defense, the average number of shots fired is 2

>>31468225
My 17s is 12.2lbs loaded.
Under 8lbs, you'd need elimination panels, a shorter barrel, and you could get an aimpoint to be under.
Maybe with an acr stock you could use one of those leupold featherweight scopes

>>31468259
meant the AR10 has a poor placement for a charging handle. SCAR is fine, if not ideal

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>>31463135

So what is this weird slanted floor plate on the SCAR 17's mags?

>>31468361
Plastic piece, attached to baseplate, acts as a magpul of sorts, monopod if your low enough

>>31468298
>If I repeat it enough it will be true!
I don't know why you can't just be happy with the gun you have and instead have to get so assblasted that something better exists lel

>>31468298
Things that dont matter to me shouldn't matter to you, if you believe otherwise, you are wrong and should be publicly scolded.

How about you go fuck yourself

>>31468391

Its really sad that schools these days don't teach kids cost benefit analysis.

>>31463135
I know someone selling their SCAR 17s. It's unfired and safe kept. He wants 3000 for it. It's the black one. Hit me up of you're near the Hampton roads area in VA

>>31468407
Didn't teach you very well either.

>>31463135
They'll be producing a lot more for civilian sales now that they got their shit stomped in by H&K in France for the FAMAS replacement and they won't have to focus on those big cheddar contracts.

On the other hand, I hope this doesn't affect/delay H&K importing an MR556A3.

>>31468445
>France
>Big military buyers

>>31466782
The order's only for 4,500 as far as I can tell. But, considering other FN contracts and the amount of SCARs produced that number is not insignificant.

>>31468391

If it doesn't matter is doesn't matter, unless you are hunting hogs or some other pest creature then the only reason to own any kind of BR is really for fun because you like shooting like everyone else here

I was mostly addressing the demographic of nutters who think they need a top of the line rifle to fight some imaginary opponent in a fantastical SHTF scenario where the gunfights that take place would give micheal bay a permanent hardon. It's never going to happen

>>31468480
400,000 FAMASs need replacing. That's a pretty big contract.

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>>31468518
So you don't consider a ergonomic rifle to be of any value? Lifecycles on parts that are set new levels of reliability has zero value? Even something as simple as a folding stock and being quickly broken down can be useful.

Even for some just punching paper on the weekends.

>>31468566
Less than quarter of that will be ordered.
Something like 90k over 10 years.

It's not small, don't get me wrong. But it's more politics than anything. The HK is a fine rifle.

>>31468480
>100,000 weapons + support for a decade
>From a company with less than 1,000 employees
It's a pretty significant contract, and it's not the first time the H&K and AR platforms in general have stomped the shit out of the SCAR.
>SOCOM spends a ~decade developing it
>Cans the 16 almost immediately because it doesn't do anything an M4 doesn't
>Keeps the 17 only because they finally need to can the M14/EBR
>JSOC totally ignores it from the get go and rocks 416/417 and SR-25s
>Loses to the 416 in Norway
>Loses to a DI AR from LMT in NZ
>Loses to the 416 in France now
>HAMR loses to M27
>Loses to Colt/Diemaco for the M/10 in vikingland
SCAR has had a pretty disappointing life desu and the last few years losing nearly every single time to HK/AR weapons probably isn't helping. At this point FNH might as well just discontinue the 16 altogether and sell 17 conversions like SOCOM did, the 17 really is the only decent gun of the two.

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>>31468601

I hope it's been thoroughly drop tested.

>>31468518
>need
I don't need any rifle, I just wanted the top of the line battle rifle because why not get the best one? And it is the best in every metric, aside from a purpose built AR-10 that can be more accurate or lighter by sacrificing other aspects. The goal post keeps getting moved between quality and value. S far as quality goes, it is the most accurate, reliable, light, and ergonomic BR out there. Value is the subjective one. It's it worth it? Don't apply your own metrics to other people and get mad when they call you a retard. I shoot enough that at some point the absurd longevity of the parts will lessen the price gap between the SCAR and the other offerings

>>31468578
>>31468391
>>31465832
>sr15
>lmt MRP
There you go.

You also have rifles like the ARX100.

>>31468616
Is that just down to price difference? The SCAR seems to do everything at least to the same standards as its competitors.

>>31468578
>SCAR
>ergonomic
Kek.
Aside from the stubby carbine length rail, garbage sling attachment points, reciprocating charging handle that chews knuckles, flimsy plastic stock, and stubby safety?
Sure, very ergonomic.
>folding stock
Super useful in a world of CQBR barrel lengths, especially considering basically every SOF team seems to not care or give a damn about the feature.

About the best thing the SCAR has for it is reliability/long term durability of parts, which is actually pretty damn good, but the other factors don't seem to be making that big of a splash as it's still trailing behind (albeit not too far) other (AR) options.

>>31465891
>>31465922

What the fuck did you do to that poor rifle?

>>31468578

That value isn't worth 3x the price tag. Buying for yourself is not the same as the military issuing you a rifle. Most infantry engagements is guys shooting each other from distance. All that speed loading shit is really only applicable to a very small subset of the military. Even in situations where SWAT has to use their weapons, most of those engagements end with only a very few rounds fired

>>31468669
>>31468391
I was replying to the tardo talking about how the PTR is as good as a 17s so I'm not sure why you dragged me into your poodleshooter passing match

>>31465249
My brother's uses 5.56

Is there even a fucking reason to get a scar when an AR10 can be just as good for over a grand less before the scar even has an optic on it?

>>31468616
To be fair, there's those with worse times out there.

>>31468676
>price difference
>HK
Obviously not.
>The SCAR seems to do everything at least to the same standards as its competitors.
Or different, which is what's not doing it any favors.
One of the main reasons the 416 and other ARs keep dominating the SCAR in major testings is ergonomics/handling. Reliability/durability is pretty consistently neck and neck, but time and time again basically every tester is saying they prefer things like a longer handguard, better controls, in-line stock, and non-reciprocating CH.

The biggest problem with the SCAR is that it was built specifically for and to the standards SOCOM asked for at the time, things like a reciprocating CH, carbine length rail/gas system, built in sling eyelets, sloped adjustable comb stock, etc. which even they have now moved away from, so FNH is stuck marketing a gun they spent a decade building to someone else's now abandoned standards/ideas and hoping other people like it.

>>31465249
Shoot one. That's as easily as I can explain it. Your mind will be blown as to how little recoil it has for a .308 that weighs 8lbs.

Of course poorfags will cry about how its overpriced because LOLPLASTICC!!!1

Be fortunate that FN even sells the SCAR in the civillian market.

>>31468711

No one ever said that, stop injecctinng bullshit where it doesn't exist

Everyone has awknowledged that the SCAR is the objectively better system, but the factors that make it the better system simply isn't worth what the civilian price is. The SCAR is in demand which is what is driving the price up to where it is and nothing more.

Seriously, SCAR owners are making HK owners look sane right now

>>31468787
>how little recoil it has for a .308 that weighs 8lbs.
Part of which is due to it coming with a brake straight from the factory, and even still an 8.5lb SR-25 with just a flash hider not only beats it in recoil control, it flat out fucking demolishes it.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-5R-mUg5z4

>Of course poorfags will cry about how its overpriced because LOLPLASTICC!!!1
It's not that much, but it would be a lot nicer if FNH's contract didn't exclude them from selling their SC made SCARs in the U.S. and lower the price a couple hundred, and for the price it is lacking a ton of features that competitors come with, particularly the 16.
>FN even sells the SCAR in the civillian market.
Not really a worry here, FNH has done a pretty good job at trying to get most/all of their products out to the civilian markets, which is awesome.

I live in belgium , is it possible for me to buy and resell them to some /k/ommandoes in the US?

>>31468842
>No one ever said that
>>31468298
>Accuracy are reliability is about the same as other BR platforms
This is the same autist that made the SCAR hate thread and has repeatedly said that a 2-4 moa gun is the same as a 1 moa gun lol

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>>31468843
Holey fuck

>>31468860
Sure , enjoy 40 years in prison

>>31468892

The FAL,G3 have proven themselves for decades, other than weapons tests where the manufacturers is testing a brand new weapon over old stuff out the armory and service with a very small subset of special forces units the main one which decided to abandon the platform, the Scar has yet to prove itself in that regard

>>31468843
>8.5lb
https://www.knightarmco.com/sr-25-enhanced-combat-carbine/
Try over 9 sans optic
>just a flash hider
That's a MAMS, which is a muzzle break
http://shop.knightarmco.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductID=KM30168
Are you too stupid to spend 3 seconds on Google or just a shill?

>>31468892

Most well manufactured BR's are1 MOA with good ammo. Throw in standard issue M80 and a pencil thin barrel used to cut down on weight and you get more realistic results

No one is shitting on the SCAR but let's be come back down to earth here

>>31468942
>SCAR is unproven
It passed SOCOM trials and was adopted. The FAL and G3 have proven themselves just fine and are good rifles. The SCAR is still a better firearm. It might not be a better firearm for general adoption by a military because of all the economic and logistical factors, but we're not talking about equipping a force, we're talking one rifles qualities vs another for individual use.

>>31469022

If I had ever seen PTR owners posting 1" @100y groups, even with match ammo, I'd have jumped on a PTR91 years ago. Best I've seen is 1.5-2".

>>31469022
Given the same ammo a SCAR is more accurate than a PTR or FAL by a reasonable margin. When going out to 500+ those inches add up

>>31469039

SOCOM trials are nice and all, but when it comes down to individual use (who doesn't have the support of a military logistics support system with a blank paycheck) it's the idiot trials of being handed to the average soldier and conscripts that really matter more when it comes down to the civilian owner

Take glock for example, sure most special forces in the world don't use it, but millions of people from police, responsible owners and complete morons alike have used the system and that right there speaks volumes

>>31468669
>The solution is $3500 308 ARs and $2250 .223 ARs

>>31468843
SR25 has more recoil, and a longer recoil impulse

>>31469090
It's made out of the same materials as any modern firearm and has nearly the same manual of arms as an AR. It's a stupidly simple gun.

>>31469134

No one is arguing against that, but many issues aren't going to be initially discovered unless you issue it in mass. Every weapon that pasts testing and comes out as "perfect" all have problems that are inherent to every mechanical device come out once more people have a chance to use it

>SCAR or AR

This is like watching Nissan GTR owners fight it out with Porsche 911 owners lol

All Neckbeards in this thread need to calm down.

>>31469177
>trialled and adopted by SOCOM
>issued and used in every combat theater since 2009
>sold ten's of thousands in the commercial market for the same duration
>is on the third major revision with a generation 4 on the horizon

You don't have to like it, but to say that the SCAR has not been "proven" at this point in time well over a decade since it's inception is laughable.

>>31468843
you either haven't shot both guns, don't even own a gun, or a lying piece of shit.

Go fucking suck dick elsewhere, fag.

>>31468843
that's a KAC MAMS you dumb shit. A 400 dollar muzzle device.

Stop talking about shit you don't know.

>>31469575
all 3

>>31469332
AMG a shit.

>>31463135
To drive up demand.

It's like diamonds, there is vaults of diamonds in Africa, that if released onto the market, would devalue diamonds just like how the spanish devalued gold when tgry conquered America.

Hell all a diamond is is super vompressed carbon, we can make that shit in a lab.

Like wise a polymer lowered rifle like an FN scar should at best cost 1,300.00 but no, much like hiw successful HK marketing is for justifying the price of their guns, FN ups the price of these things by living off the Idea that it's the rifle elite special forces units use and that it's rare and finding one is a prize and owning one is a priviledge.

>>31469972

AMG is the embodiment of Hitler's Final Soultion, only targeting tires instead of Jews.

>>31465146
Everyone is bored shooting .223/5.56 and have money burning in their pocket and are moving to .308 rifles or doing snowflake rounds like 6.5 creedmoore.

I personally love 6.5 creedmore, it's 300 win mag without the recoil...but good lord dose it kill barrels fast...can you imagine if 6.5 CM was the new basic infantry rifle caliber or if on a machine gun platform?

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Question for any and all SCAR owners in this thread:
whenever I ask people irl if they'd prefer a Mk17 to to their current .308, quite a few of them have told me no because, price aside, they see the charging handle as a serious problem.
Has the charging handle actually caused any of you issues? Personally I can't see why it'd cause more issues than AK or any weapon with a reciprocating charging handle, but that's just me.

>>31465504
I don't hate the SCAR, I love it, but I recognise what it is, and what it's not.


It's a good, solid rifle, but it dosen't justify the price tag.

>>31468787
>Be fortunate that FN even sells the SCAR in the civillian market.

...dude, get the fuck out of here.

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>>31470190

Who in their right mind is having trouble with the charging handle? It's a feature, not a defect. As for the clearance issue, that's a thing but about 20 companies make replacement angled handles now if you don't like the one that's stock, including a variation that doesn't reciprocate. People you know IRL are dumb.

>>31470190

Everything is a tradeoff. The side mounted reciprocating charging handle is simple and robust. It gives you instant visual/tactile feedback on the condition of your weapon and the means to conduct type III malfunction clearance with one hand. It can also whack your hand or barricade support if it gets in the way potentially causing a malfunction. Optic mounts become another consideration to avoid scraping your knuckles. Many aftermarket options provide solutions to these issues as well as simply training around them. FN has developed a non-reciprocating drop in conversion bolt carrier as featured in the FNAC and CSASS that may be released commercially some time in the future, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

>>31469972
AMD chipsets 4evah!

>>31470324

You can also knock your bolt open with your boot, should it become necessary.

>>31470322
>cantilever mount on a monolithic upper
>throw levers on the wrong side
>rail covers everywhere
>even under the scope mount

Please get a LT111 like a normal person before posting that abortion again, thanks.

>>31470190
I have an trijicon acog on my scar that has the knobs sticking out over the charging handle. Whenever I pull the charging handle, I scrape my knuckle against the knobs on the acog. My solution was to switch the charging handle over to the right side, so it's not a significant problem.

>>31470327
Wait, I'm talking about Mercedes AMG. Besides, everyone knows that Nvidia is better.

>>31470384

>implying I didn't replace it with a Bobro.

>>31470434

You know you could just reverse the ACOG mount, right?

>>31470454
But then I couldn't take advantage of my totally useful reversible charging handle feature.

>>31470450

Enjoy your overcomplicated spring tensioned sloppy slide fest.

>youtu.be/V3TnMeqNjXo

>>31470079

Quite literally this, the best way to retain product longetivety for something that was rejected by its intended consumer is to tell people that it is rare and sell up its unimpresive qualities.

Thus the people who buy the SCAR are less likely to shoot it as often to avoid "ruining it" but will defend it to the death out of post purchase rationalization sperg

>>31470476

Let's see...

>change something which dramatically affects the way you operate the weapon

or

>change something inconsequential with no impact on weapon manipulation

I guess option two makes sense when you don't actually shoot/train with your rifle.

>>31469441

>>trialled and adopted by SOCOM

Also rejected by SOCOM

>>issued and used in every combat theater since 2009

You are either intentionally lying or don't keep up with world events and the various conflicts going on in the world

>>sold ten's of thousands in the commercial market for the same duration

To a class of collector gun owner who are not obligated to use it in training or the field like a line unit would

>>is on the third major revision with a generation 4 on the horizon

But have no major contract to sell to anyone considering the French chose HK instead

>>31469441

What revisions have been made to the design?

>>31470479
1 example? Are you some kind of fucking retard? Maybe it's the dudes gun.

>>31470546

It will come with an "Official FNH Certificate of Operator Recognition" so the buyer will feel better about overpaying for a gun that is sold to agencies for 900 dollars a unit

>>31470525
>rejected by SOCOM
Source?

>>31470593
>insert something about the Mk16 being defunded due to budgetary constraints

He has to use words like that even though they're patently false to help massage the anal creme on his booty bothered rumpus.

>>31470643
Kinda figured but I want to give the dude a chance

>>31470514
Well, I'm ambidextrous in the first place, so having the charging handle on the right side isn't that much of a problem.

And yeah, I only shoot at the range or the desert. So I don't really put it through a lot.

>>31470585

The same agencies that buy SIG P320s for $245.

Welcome to markup.

>>31469055
Not out of the GI, but I have done it multiple times with my SC that has a heavier barrel

>>31469064

Ok buddy, just because a SCAR cost more doesn't make a thin profile, 16 inch chrome line barrel magical. Not before you get your panties in a twist, I am not shitting on the SCAR by any means. The 10lbs HK trigger and the whatever on the FAL might be worst. But you advertise the idea that the SCAR can make up for reduced velocity at range due to the shorten barrel that will heat up more rapidly due to its thin profile is literally arguing against science.

>>31470525
>Also rejected by SOCOM
you're a retard.

It's my understanding that the gas block of the SCAR allows for quick suppressed vs unsuppressed adjustment, which is something that AR10/15s do not.

>>31470701
>comparing a 16in pencil SCAR against a longer heavy barrel gun
Ormaybe you could compare it against the 20in heavy barrel SCAR lel
We're talking battle rifles, not DMRs. A PTR with a heavy 20" barrel *might* be close to a SCAR with a normal pencil barrel. Make everything equal though and the SCAR pulls ahead again

>>31470970
well, you can always buy a switchblock, or other adjustable gas blocks.

A lot of piston guns have gas adjustments. My AUG has it too.

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>>31465218
Did sa/k/uya get banned?

>>31470992
Also the need to quickly go from suppressed to unsuppressed doesn't exactly come up often, if ever. I mean it's better to have it than not but it's hardly a selling point. Mine shoots fine unsuppressed on either setting with regular M80

>>31471017
until you get to the field. There is a reason why these gas adjustments exist.

>>31465557
>he actually bought a SCAR in 5.56
>absolutemadman.jpg

>>31471062
Elaborate? Who is in the field quickly throwing on a suppressor? And the suppressor setting would leak more gas, so it's not like it's an adverse conditions setting

>>31471088
no, the point I was making is that even not taking suppressors into account, you might have to change your gas setting in the field due to temperature and state of the weapon.

Oh, btw, I routinely attach, then detach suppressors in the field.

>>31471123
Kek, in the field means actually operating, not playing in a literal field. And again, the SCAR only has 2 settings. A normal one and a suppressed one. There's no adverse conditions setting.

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If you don't like the SCAR don't buy one, who gives a fuck what other people own. Posting muh SCAR

>>31471141
kek, I was talking about my AUG.

>>31471088

Not true, I occasionally had issues with chambering a new round when flipped to the suppressor setting with no can on.

>>31471158
Fair enough man. Post webm of tactical cornstalk removal with your AUG sometime, shit sounds like a great time
>>31471178
Well yeah, suppressors create back pressure, so the suppressed setting is going to under gas an unsuppressed gun.

>>31471217

That's my point. It's not like you can leave it on one and leave it there forever. The option exists for a reason.

>>31470985

But I am comparing to rifles in its class. A standard barrel for both the FAL and G3 is longer and thicker. The SCAR needs to cut down on weight somewhere

>>31470322
>People you know IRL are dumb.

Talking about gear is probably the worst thing you can do irl, right next to religion and politics

>>31471275
that's not true. With the right people, you can talk about anything....well, except religion.

>>31471237
But you had it on the wrong setting. You wouldn't have had a problem if you couldn't adjust the gas block lol. I think you should be able to adjust gas settings on piston rifles easily, but it's not like being able to flip it with a switch vs switching it with a minute or two of adjusting a gas block using a bullet tip is a big selling point.

>>31471347

Out of 4 possible combinations, 2 of them are wrong leading to either feed issues or an overgassed action.

My boneheadedness with the wrong setting at a shooting bench aside, I like to be able to have it right when I shoot both suppressed and suppressed and being able to do so with a thumb flip is a nice feature.

>>31471431
Overgassing shouldn't really render the gun inoperable though, so the only bad option is suppressed setting while unsuppressed. It is definitely a nice feature to be able to do things that easily. Just a very very minor one

>>31465205
>>31463155
It's the truth. They're fulfilling a contract for the Belgian Army. They're replacing their entire stock of rifles with SCARS, they've warned us distributors this will severely affect US shipments for the foreseeable future.

>>31471486
>replacing their entire stock of rifles
I thought the SCAR was made for a special audience, not an entire nation's armies.

>>31470297
>price tag
Yep same here. I think it would be an excellent hog gun. But i can not justify nor rationalize purchasing it.
Im still on the hunt for a good semi 308

>>31471598
PTR is pretty decent, and I say that as someone who had spent the majority of the thread making fun of the poorfags with them. You could probably build a pretty economical AR-10 if you watch for sales

>>31471559
I thought so too, I could imagine their SF guys will get the 17 and the standard line units will get the 16 maybe?

I know one of the major selling points of the SCAR is how reliable it is, I could see this as a long term costs savings measure from an armory/supply perspective. Plus FN is local so i'm sure they'getting it at a mad discount.

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>>31471559

ahahahahahaha

>>31471745
this guy'll probably kill you, murder your kids, and rape your wife all within 30 seconds, and without batting an eye. Africa is a hard place.

>>31471869

gotcha, it is *that* kind of special

Aren't those Kenyan SF?

>>31471910
You know, these african SF groups using the scar just attests to its durability and reliability

>>31471869
>within 30 seconds
>he cums that fast
Shameful

>>31471963
Surprisingly enough, this. Kenyan SF are actually pretty fucking tough. Of course, they aren't free from corruption but they sure as hell can fight.

>>31472086
>tfw think of Street Fighter instead of Special Forces when I see SF
Too much vidya for me.

I've been looking at .308 battlerifles/DMR's is the 17 really worth it? assuming the price drops when the US gets some new.

What other .308's are out there that are good quality?

>>31472350
If you've got the dosh and want the best battle rifle then sure. Cheaper options are alright too though. DMRs are a pretty different beast in general. You're going to be looking at a heavier, longer gun most of the time.

>>31472350
it's probably still going to be 3k
if you're fine with having that much in one gun go for it

then again by parts my ARs are almost 2k

>>31465249
It was slowly worked into boys minds in videogames. before it was halo 2 battlerifle and goldeneye p90, then ten years ago something changed.

>>31472865
I remember the ACR appeared in a few games but that still had Remington fucking up.

>>31467599
You're the fucking joke. I bought it because I prefer 5.56.
And the 16 and 17 have 80% parts interchangeability.
So I KNOW you're retarded and don't know a damn thing.
>>31467968
The only thing Kel-tec is better than is hi-point.
>>31468688
>"stubby carbine length rail, garbage sling attachment points, reciprocating charging handle that chews knuckles, flimsy plastic stock, and stubby safety"
You don't own the gun.
I can tell from just listening to you.
>>31470297
I have never said anything about the price.
>>31470322
I love the charging handle.
Because of it, I don't think I could never go back to the AR platform.
The AR charging handle is what also stopped me from buying the Sig MPX.

>>31472350

I mostly see older guys with tons of disposable income shooting semi-auto .308 at my range. I've seen them shooting CMMG, PWS, Sig, and Windham, along with rare SCAR or KAC.

None of the mid range guns had problems when I was there. You'll still hear about the occasional lemons in all of them on the internet though. Guess that's why we have warranties.

I got the chance to shoot the Sig, and while it was accurate, I didn't really understand why a 16" carbine was something like 11-12lbs with the 3-16x optic the guy had on it. I have a 26" medium contour bolt action that's 2lbs less than that.

>>31465316
Kel-Tec does that, FN does not

>>31463135
Why do the faggots from FN only seem to import black SCARs and not Tan ones? Is the tan one discontinued?

>>31472350

Learn the actual difference between a DMR and a Battle rifle, for what most idiots shell out for DMR's vs what how they actually shoot it, they would be better off buying a higher end bolt gun. BR's a good if you want to throw alot of brass down range that packs a punch while being maneuverable and maintaining good accuracy up to 500 meters if you really needed. The DMR concept doesn't exactly translate over to the civilian side of gun ownership

>>31472939

Freedom group son

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>>31473179
>And the 16 and 17 have 80% parts interchangeability
Haha, no.

Different: upper, lower, barrel, bolt carrier, bolt, firing pin, recoil spring, compensator, brass deflector, gas regulator, mags
All the important working and structural parts

Same: stock, grip, trigger group, safety, mag catch, bolt catch, irons, side/bottom rails, gas module, screws
All the small shit that everyone replaces with aftermarket things anyway