Could the coalition enforce a no-fly zone over Syria for Russian

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>>31409296
Well, yes, obviously. Just destroy Russian troops in the area and start WW3 and by the time you've killed all of the Ivans, sunk their ships, blown up their AA and dropped their planes, you can freely enforce a no-fly zone.

>>31409296
Most likely. The coalition aircraft in the region currently outnumber both the Syrian and Russian aircraft there. The Kuznetsov is heading there, but so is the CdG, and the Carl Vinson is already there. There wouldn't be much point though.

>>31409402
This. It could be established but vatniks would be free to ignore it. We would risk being seen as the agressor if we'd drop a russian plane.

Also the russians could start enforcing their own no-fly zones with SAM's effectively creating a passive-agressive war.

tl;dr Yeah we could but it'd be stupid.

>>31409296
Well if you want to get fucked by Ivan in his front garden you could definitely try a no fly zone.

>>31409511
It's not his front garden.

It's an allotment in a bad neighbourhood.

>>31409296
Yeah, plenty of men and material in the area to lock out Russia/Syrian air forces.

>>31409397
>start WW3
lol they didn't do anything when Turkish cockroachs downed a Fencer

Russia is a paper tiger.

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>>31409600

>It's not his front garden
It kinda is once you start seeing forest for the trees.

>>31411285
Yes, and? What you trying to show me? You think couple of outdated cruise missiles can pose a threat?

>>31411326
>Kaliber
>outdated
Oh boy.

>can pose a threat?
If posing a threat includes capacity to crater every US and NATO airstrip in the region, then yeah, that's precisely what they do.

>>31411417
And nato can do exactly the same thing.

What's your point? How is this relevant to the subject?

>>31411580
NATO can do what? Are you autistic?

>>31411580
you mean the US could probably do it, rest of NATO is a fucking joke.
Russkis could steamroll through till spain if they wanted to.

>>31411692
NATO can crater every Russian airfield with tomahawks and other cruise missiles. Russia can't even hit all the European airfields. Let alone the American and Asian ones.

Not that this has any relevance on Syria being Russia's front garden. Russia has to fly over nato members or nato controlled airspace to get to Syria.

>>31411134
they hurt turkey hard actually

>>31411730
>Not that this has any relevance on Syria being Russia's front garden. Russia has to fly over nato members or nato controlled airspace to get to Syria.
No they dont.

>>31411716

What makes British tomahawks less effective than American ones?

Also they wouldn't make it out of Poland before NATO mobilised. You wouldn't even need American forces to stop Russia in 2016.

>>31411776
>What makes British tomahawks less effective than American ones?
Their amount.

>>31411767
Oh yeah? And how does Russia get to Syria without flying through Turkey or Iraq?

>>31411716
>Russkis could steamroll through till spain if they wanted to.

They'd get bogged down almost immediately.

>>31411792
Good thing it's not the UK on its own.

Also I'd love to see how all those outdated missiles do flying over the anti missile network set up for them.

>>31411803
Iraq is not nato controlled airspace. I mean - considering they fly through it just fine on regular basis.

>>31411827
>outdated
They are newer than Tomahawk. Significantly.

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>>31411776
>What makes British tomahawks less effective than American ones?
They don't have enough of them and Russian Intel would notice the buildup and probably target everything in the area for a first strike, before these weapons get deployed.
At the same time they would launch a shitton of Low flying Thermonuclear tipped cruise missiles, SCUDs and whatever else they have in storage then proceed to fuck the complete border, all military installations in the region.

Then a shitton of butthurt slavs run over the border and rape the shit out of us.

Should Slavs notice that they're on the losing side they will start to play really dirty so expect chemical agents.

>>31411820
by who?
I doubt we would find enough brave and willing soldiers here in europe who would volunteer.
We have no conscription here, people don't care about their nations and politicians enforce a shitton of stupid ROEs.
We have Woman, Trans abominations and Homos on the Front Lines.

The only hope for Europe is the US.

>>31411827
Oh, so now you're back to hiding behind the big guy, right.

>>31411875
you're an idiot

>>31411836
The Russians ask permission to fly through Iraq. If a no fly zone was imposed Russia would need to fly over coalition controlled bases and airspace before it got close to Syria.

Kaliber may be new but its far from advanced when the west already has mature stealth missiles and is developing hypersonic missiles.

Something being new to Russia doesn't mean it's new to the world.

>>31411893
>can't contribute anything besides insults

isn't summer over already?

>>31411894
>The Russians ask permission to fly through Iraq. If a no fly zone was imposed Russia would need to fly over coalition controlled bases and airspace before it got close to Syria.
Then why is it not there already?
>Kaliber may be new but its far from advanced when the west already has mature stealth missiles and is developing hypersonic missiles.
Much like Russia.

>>31411885

>Topic is about Article V NATO vs Russia
>Vatnik gets butthurt when UK and US are involved in a war that has been explicitly stated to include both of them

Just no effort these days.

>>31411930
If you're reduced to saying "durr Europeans are gay" in your own post you don't have much room to talk.

>>31411875

> and Russian Intel would notice the buildup

>Russia
>Being able to spot Virginia, Ohio, Astute, Los Angeles and Trafalgar class subs ahead of time and then know how to target them

My fucking sides

>>31411885
Not at all, like I said. NATO doesn't even need the US to destroy Russian aggression. Remember the UK alone spends $10bn more than Russia on defence. Add France and you already have twice Russia's defence spend.

You can quote vehicle and aircraft numbers all you like, but they don't have crews, don't have spares, and if you think people in Europe don't have the will to defend themselves you should see how impoverished Russians feel when invading a superior enemy.

>>31411894

>Kaliber may be new but its far from advanced when the west already has mature stealth missiles and is developing hypersonic missiles.
Sunshine. I won't even bother to address all erroneous bullshit you've managed to squeeze in one post. You have have absolutely no idea what are you talking about.

>>31411977
You do not need to spot subs to notice the buildup, dipshit.

>>31411954
>Then why is it not there already?

They are literally discussing this now. And no one wants to impose a no-fly zone without consent of all parties (except the Syrian government but they are irrelevant).

>>31412000
>Remember the UK alone spends $10bn more than Russia on defence.
11 less.

>>31412045
They are discussing it for, like, five years already?

>>31411973
Its true tho, try asking young people if they would fight for Germany for example.

The faggots who got money instantly haul ass, everyone else goes full liberal and anti war.
Nobody has training here.
Not even talking about the lack of material to fight such a war. We would already fuck up by not having good soldier material.

Meanwhile Russians learn already in elementary school how to wield AKs, they're also very patriotic and attacking them would instantly lead to a shitton of butthurt slavs joining forces, willingly.

>>31411977
If I remember correctly Subs are for second strike in case the other nuclear weapons are all fucked.

>>31412014
AGM-129 ACM was introduced in 1990 and was a superior weapon. So tell me why you think Russia's brand new toys are not obsolete?

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>>31412052
>having to go back 10 years to find information that agrees with you.

Janes published these numbers this year.

>>31412110
Because russian Cruise Missile is ready for use while that one is rotting in a scrapyard

>the USAF made the final decision to decommission its entire inventory of AGM-129s with the last missile being destroyed in April 2012.

>>31412148
>the fact that we scrapped a weapon from the 90's that's more advanced than your latest weapons is proof that kaliber is not outdated.

My sides.

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>>31412206
>he thinks europeans would be able to stop a russki missile spam in time

protip: we can't, but don't tell vlad

>>31411134
They took a huge chunk out of turkeys economy and cancelled the holiday plans of half the country, I'm betting with no refunds on the airline tickets, and definitely not on the hotel/resort tickets

>>31412144
A mobilized Russian army would be 10 times the size of any UK army

Only an idiot would be willing to sign up for the modern western militaries.

>>31412270
like i said, your numbers are meaningless. there's no one to drive and pilot those vehicles, you are tearing apart vehicles to use their engines. You don't have pilots for more than 50% of your aircraft, those pilots barely get to fly for a few hours a week.

You can't even complete your aircraft inside of Russia because you're not allowed to import the computer components you need, so you need to send incomplete jets to India for them to complete.

Russia is dropping iron bombs on Syria and using UAV's and EW aircraft that are literally decades behind the west.

Also who said anything about fighting just the UK? You'd be fighting 28 nations with a defense budget 17 times larger than yours.

>vatniks constantly yelling to 1v1 IRL

>>31412039

>Immediate posting is about cruise missiles being something NATO can do too
>R-Russia would spot them!
>Called on obvious bullshit
>Backpedalling furiously to try and move goalposts

>>31412335
I think hes implying intel doesn't only consist of watching the subs. Personnel and other variables play into that.

>>31411875

Holy fuck, vatnik potatoes are something else.

Russian army is in worse state than EU army. Stop deluding yourself. Most of your tanks and planes are rusting junk and entire western EU has missile defenses.

>>31412270

Oh yes, because modern war is won by conscripts with AKM's and T-72's rusting without maintenance since 1990.

>>31412249

What missile spam? Europe has much more working Asters and PAC-3 than Russia has working cruise missiles. Soon even poland will be full of PAC-3.

>>31412331
not to mention, but didn't certain journalists in Russia say the government could barely support it's armed forces while fighting in Ukraine? And I'm fairly sure there was one paratrooper battalion got wiped out...they were originally from someplace outside St. Petersburg

>>31411875
How come whenever discussing military matters with a Russian, they ALWAYS somehow work in Gays, Lesbians and Transgender like its some sort of trump card/I got you moment? How is it relevant at all?
Ameribro: We can deploy and support large numbers of soldiers away from our shores in offensive combat operations for extended periods of time.
Russiabro: Yeah, but you have trans people and gays which means instant defeat for you.
I truly don't understand.

>>31412436
>And I'm fairly sure there was one paratrooper battalion got wiped out
Yes, all of them. All of the paratrooper batallions got wiped out, thats truth. Ffs.

>>31412482
Because Women and the mentally ill are a danger to your own military.

>>31412331
>like i said, your numbers are meaningless
Numbers are absolutely everything here.
You can't shoot down all the Missiles, Cruise Missiles and Planes and some will always slip through.

>there's no one to drive and pilot those vehicles
there is conscription and their young men all know how to operate this shit.
meanwhile we don't have that in most developed European Nations, we don't know shit about warfare here and people here don't have the will to fight.

>You don't have pilots for more than 50% of your aircraft, those pilots barely get to fly for a few hours a week.
well they had enough pilots to fly a shitton of mission in the last time so assad could get the high ground, isn't that training enough?
we don't know how they rotate their pilots there so thats only assumption how ready they are.

>Russia is dropping iron bombs on Syria and using UAV's and EW aircraft that are literally decades behind the west.
They seem to be more efficient with that shit in syria, we don't know what else they have.
all we know is they
>they work on electronic warfare
>they test lasers who damage eyes
>they like to use cluster munitions
>they have thermonuclear weapons in all sizes and all kinds of plattforms to deliver them
>they have biological and chemical weapons and know how in the field
>a shitton of thermobaric weapons

Their Military advisers also seem to be more competent than their western counterpart (see ukraine/syria)

>You'd be fighting 28 nations with a defense budget 17 times larger than yours.
Germany has like 30 tanks in total who are able to operate and like 4 warplanes for SEAD missions. Sure that shit is expensive but is it effective? I don't think it is.
You also can't buy peoples will to fight and to join, you can't buy experience.

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>>31412383
I was actually in the Bundeswehr not too long ago.
I can tell you for sure that we don't have the capacity to survive a fucking Russian invasion.

Our Bases are guarded by Private security which is fat guys with glocks, most soldiers chill at home and masturbate on saturday and do fuckall, nobody is ready or prepared at all.
We have useless Tornados and barely any Euro Fighters. We have to rotate tanks between units so they can all train on it, we don't have enough tanks.

We don't have enough Ammo, we don't have enough Soldiers, we don't have competent leadership, we don't have experience, we don't have enough of anything.

The only thing Germany has is the US forces, the only ones who could put up enough resistence.

>>31412432
we have no idea what else or how much they have of that shit.
never trust a russkie, I bet my ass they would spam all the shit they have in case of WW3.

>>31412482
I'm not even Russian but I saw myself what danger woman and mentally ill retards pose to the normal soldiers.
I wouldn't want to trust my Life in the Hands of such a person.

>>31412436
>he thinks human life matters to russkis
lol

>>31412506
Good thing thing, mentally ill people are not allowed into the military and there are literally 3 women who are combat MOS qualified in the entire US armed forces.....where do you get off thinking that has any metric toward success in an open war?
>>31412503
I didn't say all of them, I said one.

>tfw you realize Germany, France, and the UK could each individually defeat Russia in a conventional war
>Even if Russia somehow won, it would be completely broken as anything resembling a military power
Really, they're a paper tiger and their only hope in any sort of war against an even remotely modern military is atomics. That's the reason why we shouldn't be shitting all over them politically like we have been. There's no way this ends well for anyone.

>>31412627
remove germany from that list, no way we could survive longer than a week against them.

think UK would be fine since they have a good Island location would still be nuked tho, France, well no idea but they don't seem to be very competent either.

>>31412607
Life does matter to the Russians, this isn't 1942, where you could throw wave after wave of men at a position and take it, and be fairly sure it would be censored out of the press. Those days are over, people from around Russia are questioning the governments take on the events surrounding combat where Russian soldiers are or are thought to be deployed. It's led to multiple organizations trying to peel back the corruption surrounding the military so they can find out what happened to family members.

As for you "I saw the danger" comment. That just means you're not really well adjusted to operate in society like a normal human being. Where did you see this danger? Certainly not in any first rate military, because then you'd know that idiots are represented in all shapes, colors and orientations.
tl;dr You're delusional

>>31412617
>there are literally 3 women who are combat MOS qualified in the entire US armed forces
what about the ones who crew ships and other installations. military operations rise or fall with that shit and wrong decisions can be very fatal.

>>31412263
Wow, Russia is truly an economic force to be reckon with. I dare not imagine what would happen to the nations who would get in an economic warfare with them.

>>31412607
Also, how would that matter? An aircraft carrier is still an aircraft carrier. Just because you beileve the "Russia Stronk" line played out by russian media, doesn't mean things good you way on the battlefield, especially once it parks itself off the Danish coast outside of higher probability of kill ranges for missiles and aircraft.

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>>31412690
>Life does matter to the Russians
If there was real existential danger to Russia you can bet your ass they would all join in and fight for the motherland. Sure in these small proxy wars there are people who still have time to give a fuck but in all out WW3 where Russia is getting attacked, good luck surviving the butthurt.

>Where did you see this danger?
I saw Woman and other special cases working in positions where they have to decide important things and fucking up, in peacetime. I doubt they would be able to steer us through WW3.

>>31412723
Like I said, only the US is able to protect us. Europe on its own would be fucked in a matter of weeks.

also never underestimate the slav, they like to play dirty and they like to cheat, that shit is like in their genes for some reason.

>>31412695
They've been serving since the beginning of time, I know a friend who has an uncle who was gay. Served as a pilot during in the Vietnam war. 2 tours, upwards to 70 missions (i think). He did fine, he did his job without regard to who he was as a person or lack thereof.
But so far those crews and ships and whatnot still achieve their objectives. Iraq, Afghanistan, Bosnia all were achieved with a diverse group.

>There are Europeans so buttdevestated by the US and NATO that they would love the idea of being invaded by Russian just to spite the West.

>>31412758
probably because they man positions that hold little to no importance?

bless jesus that we got the US on our side

>>31412768
scary isn't it? and somehow we have to transform these people into soldiers.

>>31412681
Russia is no less incompetent than any of their European peers. Even in neutral territory, they'd get thier shit pushed in, or at least it would turn into a stalemate or pyrrhic victory that costs them their entire capacity to wage war. But then the Russians would just nuke everyone as soon as they realize they've lost, everyone nukes Russia back, and we get to be the generation that permanently ended global warming.

Not without opening hostilities with the Syrians and Russians.

>US declares no fly zone
>Ruskies fly anyway
>We shoot down a Ruskie fighter
>They move SAMs into the area
>Keep flying
>Nail the next US jet that flies into range
>Now both sides have a big, expensive problem

No one is going to declare a no fly zone because the fate of Syria isn't worth the shitstorm that could unfold if US and Russian forces start openly engaging each other.

>>31412752
Not, that's a meme that's been touted every time something happens. However events (as they are based in reality and not in some vatnik fantasy) have shown that's not the case. Chechnya 1 and 2. Both times where the structural integrity of Russia was threatened (by other Russians no less) and no one joined up (to the contrary, military service was seen as a potential death sentence back in the mid 90s).

>I saw woman
I have no idea what you're trying to say. What positions? Give examples of them fucking things up. Are you sure that's not because they're just incompetent in the first place?

Yes, nevr underestimate the Slav. I would know, I'm Croatian. But that works against you, Slavs have everythign to lose by being invaded by russia, they were occupied illegaly by them for nearly 50 years. They'd fight tooth and nail to preserve their cultures and way's of life. If you think they'd just roll over and take a Russian invasion laying down, well you'd be in for a rude awakening. And don't even think about giving me the "Russia would be treated as liberators bullshit".

>>31412768
All jobs in the military hold importance, you don't need to be a Navy SEAL to hold an important job. Case in point, I have a friend from college who joined the Air Force because she wanted to, she works in an admin job and does very well at it. Because she does her job well enough, it makes everybody else's job easier.

For the people who like Russia more than the west, I can guarantee those people are just being edgy.

>>31412839
Nuclear winter is a myth.

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>>31412868
>comparing some skirmish shit in 90s chechen shithole with WW3

nigga pls
also russkies back then weren't as nationalistic as they are now. they were still fucked up from the whole perestroika shit and nobody understood what the fuck is going on, they had no clear path. nowadays they are more motivated as they see their success in Ukraine and Syria. Moral is very important.

>woman, What positions?
In any position where they hold any authority and where they have to do important decisions.

>I would know, I'm Croatian.
Russkis would nuke you to rubble and continue pushing for the important targets in central europe.
or do you honestly think they will bother sending tanks and ground troops to you, you probably get the chance to either step back or face nuclear, chemical or biological annihilation.

>>31413134
What are you talking about, they're not nationalistic. They ARE however starting to question certain aspects of their government. You can't play the "Russia Stronk" position for very long, especially under these economic conditions, it's just not feasible. They have to resort to fraud, silencing opposition, and nepotism to get what they want (the people in power). As for Syria and Ukraine, they really haven't achieved much, Ukraine proved to be a disaster, with disproportional amounts of casualties suffered. Syria is little better, the only reason they're actually there is to maintain the Med Sea port.

What about Margaret Thatcher? Joan of Arc? Queen Elizabeth? They played hardball when the chips were down. Just because women are poor fits for combat MOS' (like really poor fits) doesn't mean they are not useful in other jobs (not that I'd advocating mandatory quotas or something like that). Stop concocting this idea that the Russian army is full of manly men and NATO forces are barely combat capable just because women and others who are not like you can join (assuming they meet the requirements, which are being lower, which i think is bullshit).

I should have clarified, I'm Croatian American. And even if I did live there, they wouldn't send troops there because the likelihood of them reaching Croatia is nearly non-existent (not to mention they would have the same problems they faced in Chechnya there against people who have considerable more combat experience). But please tell me, where are those central European targets? And what forces would they use?

>>31413134
I forgot to address the Chechen shithole part.
The reason you says its a Chechen shithole is because they lost control of their own territory and could not regain it in a timely manner because people in that area were tired of the Russian way of life. They can't even control the territory they claim to own without paying local strongmen huge amounts of cash to maintain order (who I'm sure of it, would switch sides the second the flow stopped).

>>31409296
Easy. Crater the runways. Done.

>>31412144
What exactly is Germany spending that money on?