Say hello to the new ET-MP hand grenade, replacing the M67 i

>>31382800
instead of obscure shit like frag / blast it should have an adjustable timer and a switch between timed detonation or impact detonation after thrown (using accelerometers)

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>ambidextrous

>and until armed, the hand grenade will not be able to detonate

I see the DoD still won't openly admit the mechanical fuse failures that got soldiers killed in combat. Nice to see they're getting their shit together but god damn...

How does the frag/blast toggle work?

>>31383482
What are you going on about? A properly stowed grenade has three separate safety systems.

(Speaking from having to deal with these bullshit duds personally). The only issues I ever heard about and had to deal with were people who slapped electrical tape around the grenade body and spoon and then ended up with dudded grenades because they couldn't get the tape off in combat.

>>31383498
It blinks the shrapnel into the warp, duh

>>31383498
I don't know, just spittballing based on munition background.

There could be two sleeves, an inner and outer in a cylinder shape around the inside of the grenade body. These sleeves are made of metal which provides the frag. Each sleeve has holes all around it on the sides. When the grenade is in "frag" mode, the sleeves are lined up in such as way as to cover all the holes, causing pressure to build up until the sleeve is blown apart, tossing frag. When in "blast" mode, the sleeves are aligned so that the holes in both match up, leading to the relatively thin skin of the grenade, creating channels for the blast to go. The blast will take the route of least resistance, blasting out while leaving the frag in place.

Again, just pulled out of my ass, but that's how I'd start off designing a frag/blast mode grenade.

How the hell do you select blast over frag?

Where does the metal go if you do this?

>>31383661
This is the most intelligent response I've ever seen on /k/
Good job man

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>>31383661
That seems rather likely.

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>fuze timing completely electronic
nice. That's going to be a significant space savings on the grenade.

>>31383666
my guess is it's going to be frag is going to be "more" and concussion is "less" but not none. One possible way would be multiple detonators. Firing the detonators in different locations with same or offset timing could cause the explosive wave to shape differently. I can't figure out how that relates exactly to more or less frag, maybe it will pop the shell off in one direction instead of shredding it all around. Think of the Brunswick RAW with it's selectable modes, or how a nuclear bomb's explosive lens

>>31383661
that's plausible. It could work with the multiple detonator idea as well. Fire one detonator and the explosion may travel from one side to the other, popping out the thin concussion end. Fire both detonators on opposite sides and the waves meet in the middle and expand out the sides more

>>31383758
Selectable modes for a HEAT warhead aren't really the same as switching between blast/frag modes. On a HEAT warhead, the different modes really aren't affecting how the explosive detonation happens, they are just changing WHEN it happens, which creates a different end effect on the target. For the RAW it's really just switching the inertia delay by a couple of miliseconds in either direction.

>One possible way would be multiple detonators. Firing the detonators in different locations with same or offset timing could cause the explosive wave to shape differently.

Way to complicated, especially for something expected to be this compact. Usually when weapons have multiple detonators, they aren't all meant to actually go off in the same warhead, they are just meant as backups in case the primary duds. Most wave shaping in conventional explosives is done with spacers shaping the maincharge to cause blast waves to intersect with each other in weird ways.

>nuclear bomb's explosive lens

Whole other ballgame.

>>31383508
>not folding the end of the tape over onto itself so you have a makeshift tab to pull on
This is why some men need their hands held.

>>31383347

Accelerometer. Throw 90mph fast ball nade, it explodes in your hand.

Nade slips from bloody hand, gg.

Glad you don't design weapons.

>>31383816
Actually the issue was that electrical tape isn't really meant to be loadbearing tape. It melts and stretches and deforms, especially in heat.

So somebody has a grenade wrapped in the stuff for, what a month? A few months? And then when they finally try to use it, the tape is a melty sticky mess all over the grenade.

Something else that happens is that a piece or pieces of the tape stretch and break when the tape tab is pulled, leaving a little bit of tape on the spoon. That causes the spoon to very slowly leave the grenade during flight as the grenade is tossed. Spoon slowly leaving grenade body means the spring loaded firing pin very slowly moves, causing it to hit the primer too gently. Leaving you with a dud. And then you have to make the call if the grenade has a lightly struck primer, or a struck primer with a slow burning malfunctioning delay.

TLDR, if you put tape around grenades, you're retarded. But if you MUST do it, use 500mph tape, not e-tape.

>>31383841
So your lads weren't checking or refurbing their shit before they went out? How utterly unprofessional was your unit?

>>31383841
Why would you put tape around a grenade? Maybe if it was attaching the safety pin to a belt or whatever (Still retarded but makes a little more sense) but wrapping the whole thing? What tactical advantage could you possibly hope to gain?

>>31383851
I'm who called called after the fact when that stuff fucked up. Wasn't my unit. I have seen so many awful explosives handling errors that it's a wonder there aren't more accidents.

>>31383862
Sometimes it's turboPOGs who are afraid of their own explosives, so they wrap it in tape to be extra mega, super duper secure.

Sometimes it's really dumb infantry shit, where they remove the jungle clip, straighten out the legs on the pin to make it easier to pull, but then after they do that they think "oh shit, this looks like the pin might fall out" so they wrap it in tape. Don't ask me to explain the lack of forethought in not just fucking with the grenade in the first place, because honestly, people are fucking stupid.

>>31383347
I concur with the other post, an accelerometer is probably a bad idea for a handgrenade. There is stuff like that for rifle grenades, but it is safer due to generally being combined with other aspects like centrifugal force as part of the safety, or due to the extreme speeds required beyond what somebody tossing a hand grenade would get.

There are impact detonated grenades though. First thing to mind is a Chinese mini-grenade with an all way acting impact fuze.

>>31383862
Insurance and peace of mind, especially when you're moving through a complex environment. It takes all of one second to take the tape off if you're doing your job well.

>wrapping the whole thing
Fuck no. Spoon and fuse. One and a half rotations with a pull tab at the end. Job done.

>>31383758
>Brunswick RAW
I remember reading about this thing in Jane's

>>31383907
>sometimes it's turboPOGs who are afraid of their own explosives
>I'm who called called (sic) after the fact when that stuff fucked up
Righto, bud. Try not to sound informed on combat team-level SOP when you haven't been kicking in doors for 18-months flat.

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>>31382800
What is everyone's thoughts on a design like this?

>When the spoon is gone it's a cylinder that can roll freely.
>Cylinders can be stacked and screwed into each other to make super nades.
>Timer cap can be removed and converted into a launched grenade/mine/booby trap.
>Timer and various other sensors for flexible use.

I know it's probably not the most practical but I wondered if it might have any useful ideas behind it.

>>31383929
AS an infantryman, infantrymen are fucking retards, and I can understand why an EOD bub would be fed up with their shit.

>>31383929
Thanks for not reading the entirety of the post. Sometimes it's done out of some kind of SOP combat thinking, sometimes it's done out of pure skiddishness around explosives. I've seen all manner of handling of explosives and reasoning behind it.

I've dealt with people terrified of so much as holding a block of C4, and dealth with people who will no hesitation pick up a dudded RPG-7 warhead without a thought.

In general I've seen a lot of people fucking around with explosives and thinking they knew what they were doing, but surviving from blind luck.

I've also seen an infantryman fucking impaled by a LAW warhead from close range, so I take this shit kinda serious.

>>31383935
I'd want electrical contacts in the areas where they lock together so they can all detonate simultaneously and not have one get accidentally blasted towards you. Maybe a handle module to fit into the bottommost grenade so they're easier to throw further.

>>31383935
You might be interested in:

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/02/24/stackable-grenades-hooah/

Not everything you said is there, as your idea is kinda out there sci-fi to put all in one package, but bits and pieces of what you said exist.

>>31383962
>>31383956
Cool, nice to know it's not complete bullshit.

>>31383952
>Thanks for not reading the entirety of the post.
Sarcasm doesn't become you, muppet. There wasn't anything about definitive SOP in your post. Uppercut yourself and re-read your own writing.

Your country should invest more into training your lads if they can't even handle the basics correctly. This applies to you as well, champion >>31383947.

>>31383935
Would be better if you could have them timed seperately and armed simultaneously
> Connect a frag, flash and incendiary
> Flash is on 5 seconds
> Frag on 7
> Incendiary on 8
Assuming they don't just destroy each other... which would probably be what would happen. Fuck.

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>>31383980
Also "throwbots" exist, which are about grenade sized throwable robots. So, the sensor part of your post also isn't too outlandish.

>>31383935
Stacking is interesting, especially for traps.

Using a hand grenade for a launched grenade would take a significant amount of size and weight weight to make the high-low gas system casing and more size/weight if you want an impact fuse with a rotational safety.

Time delay sounds like an accident waiting to happen. Built in timer or trap settings would have to require VERY deliberate controls.

>>31383987
My country invests the most money into training out of every country. You can't fix stupid, though, and guess where the military puts stupid.

>>31383987
What country are you, friend? Because I'll betcha I've talked with my equivalent from your country who shakes their head just as much; never met somebody in my position that didn't have stories about their nation's retards. The thing about a lot of soldiers is they think they know about explosives and are thickheadedly confident about them, when really they are being kept alive by redundant safeties and luck.

>>31383992
have a tiny charge to push them apart like a little cluster munition.

a flashbang doesn't seem necessary, just hit them with the frag. Incendiary afterwards is hilarious though, just in case they weren't thoroughly dead

>>31384006
I'm guessing Britain, in which case nobody cares, or Australian, which would explain the shitposting.
>your lads

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>>31383482
>I see the DoD still won't openly admit the mechanical fuse failures that got soldiers killed in combat
Explain

>>31384010
> Blind and disorient so they can't run away
> Blow them up while they're figuring it out
> Burn them if they weren't already dead

>>31384034
What if the frag went off after the incendiary to scatter the thermite flames (Assuming it works like an M14)

>>31384005
>...guess where the military puts stupid
HQDA. They're obviously not doing their jobs well if the result is so poor at the opposite end of the chain.

>>31384006
>never met somebody in my position that didn't have stories about their nation's retards
Yes, indeed. We have our retards. Our lads don't blow themselves up on a regular basis on operations.

The new Enhanced Tactical Multi-Effect grenade
Featuring multiple effectors
Fragmentation
Pressure
Chemical
Biological
Radiological

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It's a concept artwork.

Nobody has done any serious design work on a switchable blast/frag grenade, it's somebody's R&D brainfart to do it in a sphere.
It will end up like every other blast/frag grenade - a cylindrical blast body with a slide-off frag sleeve.
It's basic explosives physics and you can't change that with computer graphics.

>>31384006
Agreed, nonUS EOD here, and still no fucking idea why but every retard thinks its a good idea to put electrical tape around grenades, even fucking smoke. M67 has the pin plus the jungleclip, how much more do you want to fuck around to throw a simple frag? FFS.

>>31383824
Or maybe you're not stupid and design it so the accelerometer doesn't activate until after several seconds. Retard.

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>>31383824
>what is timed safety arming grenade only 1 sec after lever is released

>>31383935
Cylindrical body would have shit frag pattern distribution. Sphere is ideal for that purpose.

>>31385043
Agreed. Sphere is ideal isotropic frag propogation, hence M67 RGO RGN V40 etc etc to produce 360* frag.
But how do you make a selectable spherical frag that can be blast-only without having to put 2 halfsphere frag sleeves arong the HE?

>>31385006
nah i'm laughing at the retards that think the g forces when thrown are anywhere near comparable to impact also the grenade can detect it's free-falling and can arm itself then.

All of this seems fairly complicated for something that's thrown by hand and explodes.

>>31383907
You sir make me kinda glad I went into IT instead of military explosives.

Dealing with that shit would be fun. Dealing with the stupid and dangerous shit that every day people would end up doing... god damn.

Are there days where you're lucky to have made it home, because of someone else's incompetent handling of something?

>>31383929
>door-kickers know more about explosives than trained specialists
>hoo-rah!
At this point, even if we found out the guy was completely full of shit, YOU would still be more full of shit with a statement like that.

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How would an electrical trigger work on a grenade?
What about the variable fuse time?

Could an impact triggered grenade work? Like the ones in Halo, they wouldn't explode until they hit a surface, then waited a second or so and went off.

The Halo 4 iteration of them didn't feature a spoon, they were palm sized and you folded down that tab on one side with your index finger and pushed the red thing off with your thumb for one handed operation and the whole fuse assembly pushes off from that leaving you with just a sphere.

Could a detonation system like that work well?
Seems like an impact based fuse would be a good addition, in addition to the variable timer, have like impact or direct fuse toggle, then you could change the timer on it, with the default setting on 4 seconds direct timer.

>>31385079
My first through was to just learn to live with the two piece frag sleeve. use magnetic attachment and you need no moving parts, and adding/removing the sleeve should be quick and easy while still retaining a good connection.

Then I though the sleeves on their own would be a bit of a space hog. But not much to do there, it isn't like we can make them folding without adding a bunch of hinges or...

Hey, why does the sleeve have to be solid? Get a small fabric pouch with some stretchy stuff at the opening, stick a bunch of shrapnel on it like sequins, slip on or off as you see fit. Just leave some room between spoon and body so shit doesn't get in the way there.

>>31382800
Hello

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So I know nothing about grenades.

Why would you want to be able to switch between high explosive and frag?

Aren't frag grenades already explosive? What is the point of either?

Why don't we use rifle grenades anymore?
How are under barrel grenade launchers like the M203 or seperate weapons like the M79 grenade launcher preferable over just being able to stick a grenade on the end of your gun and shoot that?

Also what's the deal with this thing?
>>31383758

>>31383508
>>31384992
Tape around grenades is a literal real life meme.

>>31385225
Frags have a higher casualty radius, sometimes you don't want that. Traditionally HE was offensive grenades and frag was defensive grenades, as in thrown when charging a trench vs thrown against the guys charging your trench

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>>31385079
>But how do you make a selectable spherical frag that can be blast-only
http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2011ballistics/12006.pdf
http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2012armaments/Wednesday14041kerwien.pdf

>>31385168
>Could an impact triggered grenade work? Like the ones in Halo, they wouldn't explode until they hit a surface, then waited a second or so and went off.
>What is RGN and RGO?

>>31382800
>select fire grenades
the future is now

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>no jumping/airburst mode

Dropped

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>>31385404
>RGN and RGO
>after a 1-1.8 second delay the grenade will detonate on impact
>if the impact fuse had not triggered it will then a second pyrotechnic fuse will cause it detonate in 3.5-4.2 second
>the impact fuse detonates when it hits any terrain - even sand, snow, or water
How does this space magic work? That's fucking cool. The wikipedia page doesn't actually say anything about the real inner workings of the fuse.

>RGN
>assault grenade
>lethal radius of between 4 meters (12 ft) and 10 meters (33 ft), and a safety radius of 25 meters (82 ft)

>RGO
>defensive grenade
>lethal radius of between 6 metres (20 ft) and 20 metres (66 ft), with the safety radius being 100 metres (330 ft)

>330 ft
Jesus Christ.

How far are soldiers able to throw grenades?

>>31385444
Imagine doing live grenade exercises with it, foxhole can not save you anymore.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFyNjwmyUyY

>>31385225
>How are under barrel grenade launchers like the M203 or seperate weapons like the M79 grenade launcher preferable over just being able to stick a grenade on the end of your gun and shoot that?

Because with an M203 you just have to use a different trigger to fire a grenade, whereas with rifle grenades you have to unload the rifle, load the special rifle grenade bullet then fire the grenade, then you have to reload it when you want to fire bullets again.

>>31385528
This scheme does >>31385036

>How far are soldiers able to throw grenades?
Thus it is called defensive and should be employed from cover.

>>31385548
Don't they make grenades you can just shoot with a normal bullet? I thought someone had grenades like that.

>>31385528
I think I recall from training that all soldiers should be able to throw a grenade 30 meters out accurately, so yeah, you really don't want to get caught in your own fragmentation.

>>31385581
there are some that have a bullet trap that can handle 5.56. The Jews have a door breacher that has a bullet catch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjRxkem9oz4

>>31384026
>Explain
The simple burn fuses used in most grenades are notorious for not burning for the exact amount of time the grenade is labeled as. This goes back all the way to ww1, if not earlier. The fuses can burn slower or faster due to many manufacturing, assembly or storage issues.
As for the soldiers that got dead or maimed, most of the dumb fucks thought they were in a video game and would "cook" the grenade so that it would explode right as it hit their target.

>>31385580
I can't read Russian.

What makes the defensive one so much more lethal? Just that it makes more shrapnel due to the double layer of metal?
How could it be possible to make one that lets you be able to change between it?
I mean that's the type of effect they would want from a toggleable HE-Frag grenade isn't it?

>>31385675
>What makes the defensive one so much more lethal? Just that it makes more shrapnel due to the double layer of metal?
Either a larger charge or a higher energy explosive.

>How could it be possible to make one that lets you be able to change between it?
How could it be possible to make one that lets you be able to change between it?
Between RGN and RGO? You don't.
Between frag and blast? As earlier anons have said, you put a frag sleeve on a blast grenade.

>>31385708 here
Also forgot, for the first question: increasing the thickness of the walls of the grenade would increase the pressure before the grenade loses integrity, which would mean a higher energy imparted to the fragments.

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>massive nukes detonate in space over the center of the USA
>EMP fries everything
>all the grenades go off

>>31385675
>What makes the defensive one so much more lethal?
RGO has double frag layers and it is steel. RGN frag layer is aluminum, its fragments are so light they don't have lethal kinetic energy past 25 meters.

>>31385727
>increasing the thickness of the walls of the grenade would increase the pressure before the grenade loses integrity, which would mean a higher energy imparted to the fragments.
>>31385745
So like, having a steel sleeve you could like slide over an aluminum offensive grenade could convert it into a defensive grenade?

How hard would it be to design a system that uses a set up like that? Then just give soliders a bunch of assault grenades, and then the defensive sleeves to slide over them?

Would that work?

>>31385727
This is not how it works, anon.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gurney_equations
http://fas.org/man/dod-101/navy/docs/es310/warheads/Warheads.htm

>>31385738
If they have any sense the circuit is not complete until you pull the pin.

>>31385444
How the hell does that work? Bouncing airburst grenades?

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>>31385760

>>31385760
It's been done before, most notably with the German m24 during ww2.

>>31385770
Bouncing Betty the grenade:
https://mega.nz/#!mUt1nJYD
!RG97Ledqn0BER4umZ41u45h9_I-707us1fT8c7ILuAA

>>31385651
Or they explode after the spoon comes off. Right about 2 inches from the throwers hand and face.

>>31385651
Remember, while the men are off throwing grenades, the woman are back home manufacturing the fuses. Most have trouble with a 2x4 let along something that could explode in my face.

>>31385444
>That visible cloud of shrapnel.
Yikes.

>>31385444
>Swedish space magic

>>31383347
>grenades now cost 1 million dollars apiece
Good thinking.

>>31382800
>electronic fuse

Anyone remember those Air Scan platforms that could burn an area and try to predetonate IEDs ahead of friendlies?

>>31386328
It's built by Rheinmetall, so it's the krauts who are at it again.

>>31386988
http://www.fmv.se/en/News-and-media/News-Archive/News-archive-2013/The-jumping-hand-grenade/

>>31386988
It is Swedish development and patent.

>>31387166
>>31387172
http://www.guns.com/2013/04/25/swedens-nextgen-air-burst-hand-grenade-photosvideo/

>Produced by Rheinmetall Waffe Munitions ARGES

>>31387210
>iphone
>produced by ching-chonk

>>31387210
Developed by swedes, produced by germans

>>31382800
How would you make the switch though? What is going to physically stop the grenade from fragmenting?

>>31387301
They most probably do low order detonation or deflagration in blast mode

>>31383661
Good idea but that sort of device would only really be applicable to something like a flashbang grenade. If you are dealing with enough HE filler to produce any sort of lethal blast radius the rest of the body would absolutely still fragment.

>>31383661
you are very smart, I would have simply guessed that it would be a variable yield explosive, where a lower explosive force would generate larger fragments.

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>>31383661

>>31382800
>electronic fuse made in china
>has backdoor
>usa goes to war with china
>china remotely detonates all american grenades simultaneously

>>31385581
>Don't they make grenades you can just shoot with a normal bullet? I thought someone had grenades like that.

Yep. Mostly the french, belgians and israelis... They're the ones who're still into rifle grenades.

If i'm correct, it was actually a requirement for the new french army rifle to be able to fire said rifle grenades.

>>31387464
So why use separate grenade launchers when you could just have rifle grenades?

>>31387895
because you have to carry the launcher adaptor and special blanks alongside the grenades, and it beats the hell out of the rifle.
The US and the Russkies got it right with the under barrel launchers

>>31388077
You mean the US. Russia got theirs in the late 70s.

>>31383824
>Accelerometer. Throw 90mph fast ball nade, it explodes in your hand.
good thing grenades have a spoon there, to, you know, NOT do that
>Nade slips from bloody hand, gg.
what do you think the accelerometer is for?

WWII impact grenades solved these issues with extreme ease. They wrapped a length of cloth around the fuse and put a lead weight on the end. Throwing the grenade unwraps the cloth automatically.

Please stay away from weapon design yourself if you just insult people instead of thinking for two seconds. It seriously takes two seconds to think "don't have it detonate before throwing" and "don't have it detonate from 6ft drop"

>>31389335
M203 went into service in 1969

>>31385225
>Why would you want to be able to switch between high explosive and frag?
>Aren't frag grenades already explosive? What is the point of either?
Frag grenades have a larger kill radius than non-fragmenting HE. It makes them more lethal but also more dangerous to the user, so you can switch depending on the situation and how much cover and distance you have.

>Why don't we use rifle grenades anymore?
They have absurd recoil and put a lot of force on the gun. Check youtube videos of rifle grenades, they really batter the shooter. Then check 40mm grenade videos. Much much easier recoil.

>Also what's the deal with this thing?
Read it bruh. It was a concept for a rifle grenade style explosive. It has a range sensor on the front and a shaped charge inside, and will blow up at varying distances to get different effects. The shaped charge needs a particular standoff distance to penetrate armor. Blow it up too close and it'll explode outward like a regular lump of explosives. They used that to make a switchable explosive.

>>31385357
thanks famalam, those were informative

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>>31387401

>>31383661

or, instead, there are multiple interlocking columns of explosives and fragmentation material. Switching from frag to blast moves the explosives from the core of the grenade to an outer layer, and the metal bits from the outer layer to the core.

>>31383411
Well with current doctrine, using an m67 it has to be held upside down for lefties to hold the spoon in place with proper technique.

>>31385738
>EMP
>electrical fuse housed inside of a metal shell

Keep the cogs turning, you'll get there...

>>31385738
Simple electronics like cell phones and radios are not affected much by EMP. These new fuses will be safe.

>>31385789
>>31385832

Fucking Nazis, always thinking ahead.. well, kinda..

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>>31383666
You know exactly where it goes.

>>31385789
Wouldn't it just blow out the top instead, taking the path of least resistance?