Has the AR-15 really become a reliable platform or it's

Yes.

Everything is a meme, even you.

Is an AK incapable of hitting the side of a building at 600 yards or is it just a meme?

>>31371151
>>31371157
>>31371175
/thread

>>31371130
It depends on how you quantify reliable. If you drop an AR in the mud it will work fine because it's a sealed system with almost nowhere for mud/sand to get in. It's close tolerances don't allow for the ingress of particulates. However these close tolerances also mean that carbon build up will become an issue much faster then in other more open designs. The AR is also a very accurate due to it having locking lugs all around the bolt. This is important because it more uniformly seats the rifle each time it cycles. The reason self-loading rifles aren't as accurate as manual actions is because their more complex parts don't fit together the exact same way each time they cycle. So better locking surfaces allow the AR to be more accurate.
>>31371175
The 7.62x39 cartridge has poor design in that it drops significantly after 400yrds. The AK was also designed in mind to replace sub-machine guns and for all intensive purposes that is how the Soviet doctrine intended to use them. The AK's inaccuracy is more of a urban myth. While it isn't as accurate as an AR, and in some ways gimped by its cartridge it's still a rifle. Although AK-74's use the superior 5.45 cartridge and can more reliably reach farther out.

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>>31371257
>typing all that tl:dr shit for a b8 thread

>>31371257
>intensive purposes
Hooo boy

>>31371310
It's bait.

>>31371310
>>31371323
How is it bait? The soviets designed the AK as a replacement for their sub-machine guns to fulfill their roles. Where as the Germans designed the STG-44 with the intention of it melding the roles of rifleman, and light machine guns. The soviets designed the SKS to replace the Mosin and SVT, obviously they realized the AK could bridge the gap for both sub-machine gun and rifleman roles. Hence the SKS not having a particularly long service life.

>>31371382
He meant the tread was bait.

What you said was correct tho.

>>31371257
>7.62x39 dropping after 400yards is "poor design" in a rifle you agree was designed to replace submachineguns

>>31371442
Obviously the soviet doctrine didn't think infantry would be engaging targets over 400yrds. They designed the cartridge for their purposes which meant they simply didn't care to take the time to design a cartridge with better overall ballistics. The 7.62x39 fulfills the role it was meant for, that doesn't mean its drop off was intentional, they just didn't care to fix it. I wouldn't say it's even a compromise in the design. The Yugoslavians tried to improve on the 7.62x39 cartridge to improve upon this. I'm not saying it's a shit cartridge, but I am saying that in that regard there was poor design.

>>31371130
It's been a meme for so long that it's become a reliable platform. The design itself is kinda crap, but we've refined it to the point of being one of the best rifles out there.

I still hate the thing, for the record.

>>31371490
Yugo M67 (and modern Russian derivatives like Golden Tiger) were not designed for better range, they were designed to begin yaw sooner in-target.

We both understand why 7.62x39 was replaced, I just disagree that it represents poor design now or then.

>>31371609
Why would you design your cartridge so that it drops off at 400rds? Even if it was only intended to be used in closer ranges, why not design it to have more potential? Obviously Russia realized that it was poor design, why else would 5.45 been made.

>>31371648
>why else would 5.45 been made
Doctrinal change. Same reason NATO adopted 5.56, its not that 7.62 was "poor", its just that carrying more for less weight was considered preferable over bullet size.

>>31371680
The difference is other then experimenting around with some different cartridges 5.56 was THE adopted cartridge. NATO adopted and has stuck with it. Russia changed their intermediary cartridge. If they had originally made something like 5.45 they never would to have adopted another cartridge, because it works fine in close and longer ranges unlike 7.62x39. 7.62x39 is corner cutting, and that's it. There is no good reason to gimp your cartridge past 400yrds.

>>31371130

Many of the problems attributed to the AR-15 stem from its early days in Vietnam, where it was issued both without a cleaning kit. Combined with ammunition that did not use the right kind of propellant (which quickly gummed up the receiver with excess carbon), this led to those tragic stories in which dead G.I.s were found with their M-16s broken open trying to fix FTEs.

Especially following several iterations of improvement, the AR-15 has indeed become a reliable platform. Can you completely disregard it like you might an AK? Of course not. But proper maintenance will generally result in near-flawless performance in a good-tier AR.

>>31371543
Monicca. I think caliber should not be a factor, if the cold war didn't happen and soviets weren't so the AK47 would not be as popular and would fade into history instead of being seen everywhere in the hands of degenerates.

>>31371786
Was that even a sentence? If the Cold War didn't happen it would only be because either Germany shattered the USSR, and or Patton got his way and the allies invaded the USSR with the help of German, and Italian POW's. In which case yeah Soviet weaponry wouldn't be as common.

>platform

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>>31371130

I'm glad you asked.

See, what memes have become is different than what they were. It used to be, a few years ago, that a meme was what it was because of the people who chose it. Now, a meme is a meme if someone thinks it's a meme. Memes normally come about in a rational way, as a course of the community and time. But now, there's no way of knowing if a meme is a meme because it naturally became one, or if someone made it one. In fact, there's no telling if a meme is a meme because people like it or because people don't like it. Sometimes people say the word "reddit". That doesn't change the nature of prices rising for milsurp and people talking about the election. Either way, gun stores don't carry the same guns you can buy on the internet, and thank fuck youtube exists, because otherwise people would (or wouldn't?) know how to use the world "shill", which in and of itself is a meme

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>>31371310
It's a doggy dog world out there.

>>31371130
Everything's reliable when you CLEAN IT.

That said, frictionless coatings and Stainless Steel internals help.

An average AR is actually pretty reliable

>>31371130
I once shot 10 rounds out of an AR without malfunction. I was pleasantly surprised.

>>31371609
>>31371648
It's 2016 and AR fags are trying to copy the ballistics of the 7.62x39 with the 300 BLK. There's a reason why the 7.62 round is considered a good one, it knocks people dead and is more than rangey enough for the vast, vast majority of infantry small arms engagements.

>>31371130
No, is still crappy.
Shitty caliber, shits were it eats, prone to failure is too much dirt and buttstock can't fold.

>>31371257
i for one liked your post

for future reference though it's intents and purposes

spelling mistakes like that are a diamond dozen these days with auto correct and all

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>>31373896
>buttstock can't fold

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>>31373896

>>31373896
>shits where it eats

We have been over this many times. The AR15 is not a true DI system because the bulk of the gases leave through the ejection port as the bolt is pushed back. It is more akin to vomiting where you eat.

>>31371130
Go shoot one and find out.

>>31371175
>Is an AK incapable of hitting the side of a building at 600 yards
I mean if we're being serious here, 600 might be pushing it but that's the round itself, not the gun.

>>31373939

>shoot AR with buttstock folded
>BCG through the eye

>>31374340

I thought it was because the gasses push the bolt forward to unlock it that it wasn't "direct" impingement.

>>31371730

>>31374887
The bolt isn't pushed, the gases push against it to move the BCG which turns the bolt and unlocks the action. There is nothing between the gased and the BCG, so it's direct impingement.

>>31375101
DI systems push directly against the carrier. The gasses are like a hammer smacking the carrier to move it.
The Stoner system is a piston based design and uses the exapansion of the gasses to push against a piston to move the carrier. It's nothing like DI.

>>31374872
There's a piece of the latch blocking the bcg when it's folded. The only thing that will happen is your empty won't extract. You would have to unfold the stock and charge the gun again

>>31371310

i know right? moron like this are a diamond dozen now a days

>>31373938
>>31375145
My bad, thanks for pointing it out. I'll be the first one to admit that my grammar is shit.
>>31373884
I never said the 7.62x39 cartridge was bad, I simply said it was poorly designed in that one regard. I can understand wanting something larger then a 5mm cartridge, but that doesn't mean your cartridge has to rainbow.
>>31374940
Thanks for your insightful retort anon, you know discourse is good because you learn from it. If I was wrong, i'd much rather you tell me so that maybe I could learn something.

>>31373938
Isnt it "dime a dozen"?

>>31373896
>noguns trying to noguns

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>>31374940
>>31375709
>Thanks for your insightful retort anon

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>>31371130
>>31371175
this

AK is accurate enough, and the AR is reliable enough.

>>31371257
>>31371382
Excuse these gentlemen they just watched ians latest video and felt the need to regurgitate like baby birds.

>>31371130

Yes. The AR-15 was always a reliable platform. The military adopted the M16 in 1964, that's 52 years ago. The first rifles lacked a chrome lining and the grunts were told that they didn't need to clean their new super rifles. This led to stoppages.

There has never been anything inherently wrong with the AR-15 platform, it is a fine system.

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>>31371257
>The AR is also a very accurate due to it having locking lugs all around the bolt
>close tolerances also mean that carbon build up

holy shit go read a book nigger.

>>31375133
Semantics. The gases impinge directly onto the bolt carrier, so it is direct impingement. Different kind of DI than what has come before, but DI nontheless.

>>31382144
They don't though. They go INTO the carrier to push on a piston.

>>31382165
They push the carrier. The ""piston"" only blocks the gases from escaping.

>>31380010
>>31379847
Well, can you please tell me how i'm wrong?

>>31382295
Thats how a piston works, yes

>>31371130
There are genes, and there are memes, and scenes.


But yes after so much use and testing, we have it down perfectly.

[spoiler]Same for AKs just don't tell anyone[/spoiler]

>>31384462
No actually. Ordinarily, the gases push a piston which moves, not pushing against it while it stays still.

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>>31377600

Lurk more.

if you buy anything other than an ar-15 for any application you are a fucking fool. it is the perfect weapons platform system with unmatched ballistical advantage in any scenario. if you are looking for a deer, duck, skeet, concealed carry, home defense, shotgun, and you buy anything else than an AR-15 you are a fucking moron. the design is literally perfect and there is no reason to buy your cheap weak bullshit like FAL, AK, HK toy guns. anything that is not an ar-15 is a toy. anyone with half a brain that knows the first fucking thing about guns will recommend an AR-15 for any firearms need you have. if you knew shit about guns you wouldnt spend you rmoney on anything other than an ar-15. with free floated barrels, quad rails, extreme forward assists, it is unmatched in performance and reliability. this weapons system is so accurate at long distance shooting that is being banned by the geneva convention.