Is the finnish military a meme? Realistically there can't

>>31362706

They'll be a good soak until NATO shows up. Because they will.

These days any conflict with a nation that has any sort of organised armed force is a massive undertaking and a lot of risk, and i think russia would definitely get a bloodied nose if they tried anything with finland. Maybe not beaten, but finland wouldn't be the normal proxy war or georgia the russians try on every so often.

They don't have to be strong enough to win because that will never happen, they just have to make it more trouble than it's worth for the Russians.

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>>31362706
a meme.

fights off the soviets, twice.

OH GOD I THOUGHT SUMMER WAS OVER!

>>31362706

WINTER WAR
I
N
T
E
R

W
A
R

>>31362706
They can't fend off Russians, but they're there to make it too costly for them for it to be feasible. Also due to the prevalence of military training in the populace and the amount of guns in civillian hands, occupying the nation would be a nightmare.

>>31362788
>>31362803


Fucking Summer Fags.

They fought off the Russians because the Russians had purged out practically all their officers, and anyone who "Might've been a threat." If Russia decided to invade Finland, the same thing wouldn't happen. The Winter War was catastrophic for the Soviets because New doctrines and no experienced officers.

The Finnish Military would be gone within a short while, provided help from NATO didn't arrive in a timely manner and then it would devolve into another gorilla campaign against the Russians. However neither way will this happen because Finland kisses ass with both Russia and NATO and pretty much said they would back the enemy of whoever invades them.

>>31362706
The Finns acknowledge the fact they can't stand toe to toe with other militaries, so they have trap cards laying around the board called Sissi Companies. The Sissi units are trained to stay behind when the Finn military retreats, and just attrit and sabotage as much as they can of the invading force until NATO or someone else comes to save them.

>>31362813
>prevalence of military training in the populace
Do you have any idea how shitty the recruits are nowadays? Half of them would flee to Sweden at the first sign of trouble and the rest would be too weak and fat to fight.

>>31362835
>They fought off the Russians because the Russians had purged out practically all their officers, and anyone who "Might've been a threat.
Similarly, Finland had shit for materiel, and less cohesive training than they do now.

>>31362857
I think you undersestimate them. There are a lot of bad eggs for sure, but that goes for all countries. I think most people are saying they wouldn't fight now for political reasons. The government is incompetent and does not represent the people.

>>31362835
you do realize russkies cant allocate their whole army to finland right?

Thing is, surprise invasions of first world nations are pretty much impossible to pull off. By the time the russians arrived, they'd be facing half of nato.

>>31362878

Are you fucking retarded, or what?

>>31362884
They have enough fast reaction mechanized forces that could drive to Helsinki before FDF could lift a finger. If they for some reason wanted to.

Ofc those forces would be proper fucked if the Finns don't just give up.

>>31362934
But mobilising those forces would be noticed, and moving them in withpout serious air support, which would also be noticed, would be suicide.

>>31362779
/thread

>>31362934
this is including time to sober up or not ?

russian do a lot of driving to insert capital here lately

Kiev, Warsaw, Berlin and so on

>>31362906
He's right though. That's why you can't compare just numbers vs numbers when estimating capabilities. Russians for example have to police a huge airspace and can't just put all of their fighters on the Finnish front. Same goes for troops.

>>31362835
>gorilla campaign against the Russians.
I knew there was a reason the KGB who took out Harambe!

Why the FUCK would NATO go to war with Russia over Finland?

We would strongly condemn them and stop selling them coca cola and that's about it.

>>31362980
...because literally every european nato member would scream article V?

Because they're a nato ally?

Because the EU would go in hard, and what's the point in only half of nato doing a thing?

>>31363008
>they're a nato ally?
where is proofs

>>31363034
http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_49594.htm

And they're a fucking EU member. Even if they weren't friendly with nato, the EU certainly is, and every single nato member in europe screaming article V at the same time is not exactly going to be ignored.

>>31363046
They cooperate with NATO, they aren't in NATO.

The EU is fucking useless too, they can't even fight Libya.

Georgia was a partner and got invaded. Ukraine was inching closer and got invaded. NATO did fuck all.

>>31363008
>>31363046
Finland is not a member of NATO you dumb shit.

>>31363070
$0.5 has been deposited into your account.

I have never said they are in nato. They are allied to nato, a member of the nato quick reaction force, and they are in the EU. Most of nato is also in the EU. Do you honestly think that said nato members of the EU are not going to act to assist another european nation if the russians invade? Do you think the rest of scandanavia would not throw everythign they had in to help because they would inevitably be next, or that france, the uk and poland would not get forces over there fast on top of whatever eu quick reaction forces exist?

This wouldn't be making dirt bounce again, it'd be first world nations operating from on top of thier own supplies, repelling an invader. they're literally inside of typhoon range from half the major airbases in europe, including the usaf ones.

Russia attacking Finland would also mean Russia attacking Sweden, how much that matters is a question but the Swedish and Finnish navies are powerful to hold back the russian baltic sea fleet, Finland especially can just mine off the Russians. Swedish air force together with the finnish are sufficient to hold off atleast 120+ russian jets, especially on defensive missions, the russians cant field too many jets on one front, they have a huge space top defend. How big the russians ground force would be is hypothetical but one can be assured that the leningrad military district would be central, reinforcements from the far-east are also expected. The finnish and swedish army have enough numbers between them also defending in forest train wich you are used to is very easy, deep war doctrine wants a 10 to 1 power ratio of friendly forces, this would be not be possible. try to dispute me vatnikshit.

>>31363008
>>31363126

>Because they're a nato ally?

You can't ally to an alliance you clown. You're in it or you're not. We aren't risking nuclear warfare for a Partnership for Peace member.

>>31363161
>Russia attacking Finland would also mean Russia attacking Sweden
Please tell me why.

>>31362706
The thing is we only have to kill enough of them until they get bored and go away.

How are the finns gonna stop the ruskies when they aren't even allowed to use landmines anymore

>>31362980
Because Russia annexing Crimea under suspicious circumstances is completely different than Russia blatantly invading a western nation with strong ties to NATO and a member of the EU. Furthermore, you can pretty much bet Sweden and Norway would get involved, which would result in NATO being forced to get involved in turn to bail out Norway. That, and pretty much every Baltic state and Poland would be urging NATO to get involved.

>>31363184
Finns still use landmines, you retard.

>>31363191
>Norway would get involved, which would result in NATO being forced to get involved in turn to bail out Norway.
That's not how Article 5 works. You can't attack someone before they attack you and drag the alliance with you. Short of a full scale invasion of an actual NATO member NATO isn't fighting Russia.

There would be harsh words, condemnations and embargoes but we aren't going to war with the Russians over Finland. They aren't important enough. The EU is not really a military alliance like NATO, and without the US's support it frankly isn't enough to take on the Ruskies.

>>31363212
They are in the Ottawa Treaty, you retard. They don't use landmines.

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>>31362706
Finns still have one of the biggest armies in the world alone, with over 250 000 war-time troops.

The number was still 500k back in mid-00s, then they did cuts, and now they're planning to increase the numbers again.

Gear-wise they're very modern armed forces, and almost completely NATO compatible nowadays. Tons of local specialties in the mix too.

>>31363072
>ally = member
implying

>>31362845
>Sissi troops are un-motorized and are not equipped with heavy weapons or equipment
They'd get murderized, that's what. You can be the best light infantry there is but once the big guns of the arty and tanks and the bombs in the air drop you get mulched like everybody else.

>>31363257
They use landmines. AT-mines are also landmines. They do not use AP-mines other than pipe mines or claymores which have to be detonated by finnish soldier from a distant rather than by the enemy stepping on trap wire.

>>31363257
It's cute that you think you know what you're talking about. Finland may have ratified the Ottawa Treaty, but they still use landmines. Ask anyone serving in or who has served in the FDF.

>>31363271
>allied with an alliance
>alliance defending a non-member

>>31362706

There is no bigger meme than Russian army.

They couldn't take fucking Grozny.

>>31362706
It'd be hell for the Russians. The fins have always been one of the most successful countries when it comes to bleeding the russians. Strong national themes of hunting, self reliance, and target shooting make a populace that is uniquely adapted to a opposing an invading force.
Winter war 2.0.

>>31363295
It took them a couple tries but they did. That's like saying the US military is a meme because they couldn't keep Fallujah.

Don't underestimate Chechens either man

>>31363283
>2016
>using AT-mines

Talk about obsolete tech

>>31363273
thats why the finns have them right?

>>31363249
France and the UK could probably repel a Russian invasion on their own, and they have dozens of smaller allies

>>31363273
You assume some pretty funny things here.

1. The Russians know the location of the light infantry accurately enough to call in artillery/CAS

2. The Russians are willing to expend considerable amounts materiel to kill squad sized units

t. another anon

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>>31363295
>Decisive Russian victory
>Capture of Grozny by Russian Forces
>Fall of the separatist Chechen government
>Decisive Russian victory

>>31363249
I understand exactly how Article 5 works, but what you don't understand is how the moment NATO just sits back and watches a member state get BTFO by Russia is the moment the Alliance falls apart. It doesn't if the member state was aggressor or not, and it doesn't matter if Article 5 was invoked or not.

>>31363258
>Tons of local specialties in the mix too.
Such as?

>>31363257
I am conscript trainer in Finnish defence forces and I can tell that we still use landmines, we just call them "charges", not "mines".

>>31363314
>1. The Russians know the location of the light infantry accurately enough to call in artillery/CAS
Organic fire support is a thing.

>2. The Russians are willing to expend considerable amounts materiel to kill squad sized units
You can't do shit with squad-sized units alone. You need more, like a company at least, especially with the lack of fire support. You can't even hold a small road for instance with just a squad- even a dinky BTR and its complement of troops is more than enough to mulch your guys. Remember Bravo 2 0?

>>31363375
>there are no sissi companies
you know nothing about the fdf do you?

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>>31363328
ItPsv 90 "Marksman" anti-aircraft system.
Originally on T-55 chassis, now they're being put on the Leopard 2A4 chassis.

Plenty of unique communication devices too, many made by good ol' Nokia itself.

>>31363375
I think you are trying to make light infantry in a role that they weren't designed to do.

They harass the enemy. They don't hold the ground.

>>31363304
In forested finnish countryside those are still quite handy

>>31363383
Then why the fuck did you refer to squad sized units then?
>The Russians are willing to expend considerable amounts materiel to kill squad sized units

>>31363304
>implying there is anything wrong with AT mines

In eastern Finland tanks and other heavy vehicles are tied to the roads due to the thick forests.

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Just remember fellow Finns: think about what you're about post. Don't make the mistake of revealing sensitive information just to defend your point in an online argument.

>>31363391
>They harass the enemy. They don't hold the ground.
Its pretty hard to harass someone who brought his own set of wheels or tracks, and has fire support in spades. You'd get pinned down and encircled and that's it, you're dead.

>>31363385
Its kind of a waste of a perfectly good Leo 2 hull when it can be mounted on an MTLB chassis instead.

>>31363398
because companies do not act as a single unit smartass, 150 men organized in 3 man units will ravage your logistics and command, radar guided missile operators live dangerously too.

>>31363398
The original post about Sissi explicitly mentioned companies, it's your own fault for not paying attention.

>>31363450
>russians send two btr-80s on patrol behind lines
>one gets destroyed by AT mine
>other gets APILASd or KESKd
>bomb whole area
>sissi troops are already 10 km away when word gets trough
try to bomb like 3 guys hiding somewhere in a mile wide forest

>>31363443
I swear comrade, there are no filthy russians on 4chan. Please proceed with telling information.

>>31363443
you are assuming that russians can read or have internet and electricity ....

>>31363258
Almost all of those are reservists though, who only train a few weeks out of the year. Of course so is Russia's military, but they also have close to a million active duty troops.

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Its about creating a big enough hurdle for the enemy to go over that there isnt any point for them to invade. A pyrrhic victory is not worth it, not even for Rusia.

>>31363525
>Almost all of those are reservists though, who only train a few weeks out of the year
A vast majority of them don't train at all.

>>31363540
Too busy browsing spurdo memes to train

>>31363525
You're failing to take into account that the majority of Russian active duty troops are also Russians, so they have that going against them.

>>31363451
>150 men organized in 3 man units
Yeah that won't do. A single objective requires a platoon at the very least to accomplish. Fireteams can't do shit but flail around the place. You need mass, cohesive mass to achieve anything. If this is how you guys are going to fight then I'm sorely disappointed, the Chinese in Korea were much better off tactics wise- sorry.
>>31363455
>The original post about Sissi explicitly mentioned companies, it's your own fault for not paying attention.
I reviewed the past posts and I didn't see anything of the sort of what you are saying. Its your fault if you post something that explicitly stupid that can't be backtracked.

Finland can't realistically stop the Russian military alone.
It can prevent itself from being as vulnerable by leveraging risk and cost from an invasion, however.

>>31363555

You're not looking very hard
>>31362845
>The Finns acknowledge the fact they can't stand toe to toe with other militaries, so they have trap cards laying around the board called Sissi Companies.
>Sissi Companies

>>31363466
>meanwhile a whole regiment arrives at the nearest Fin settlement
>every man executed for crimes against mother russia
>every woman gets to be liberated by a squad
>kids sent to mongolia

>>31363273
Yeah, just like theMujaheedin, Talibans and Viet Cong never ever managed to do an ambush.

Oh wait.

>>31363555
i think the whole finnish army is sissi companies
t.slavaboo burger

you dont realize what dispersion behind enemy lines is at all do you? sissis arent regular infantry units you fucking retard

>>31363593
>kids sent to mongolia
To see their relatives

>>31363578
And? did I say anything about squads prior to this post? >>31363314

>>31363512
Nice try, Sergei.

>>31363618
Nice backpedaling there.

>>31363551
there are no Russian troops, only liberators. They are the only invaders who leave the place with a bigger population than before then invaded.

>>31362835
>b-b-b-but muh purge!
How well is Russia taking the Ukraine?

>>31363642
Assuming they don't get lost and wander into Ukraine instead. That seems to be happening quite a lot these days.

Sissis will do guerilla warfare.

And like it or not that shit works.

>>31363651
One thing I'll say for the Russian military: they get the longest vacations.

>>31363602
>Yeah, just like theMujaheedin, Talibans and Viet Cong never ever managed to do an ambush.
And all got murdered by the gallon for every oz they kill.
>>31363611
>i think the whole finnish army is sissi companies
And now its the whole of finnish army, when we were discussing sissies...

>you dont realize what dispersion behind enemy lines is at all do you? sissis arent regular infantry units you fucking retard
What dispersion? The silly post of your that say 3 man teams go up and achieve objectives on their own?
>>31363639
>Nice backpedaling there.
Expert witness.

>>31362706
The Mongols took a lot of Russia, so I wouldn't be surprised if they could beat them again

>>31363686
>And all got murdered by the gallon for every oz they kill.
Ah yes, that must be why Afghanistan is a Soviet state. Oh, wait.

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>>31363700

>>31363686
>i am stupid, t.burger
mining a road used by supply trucks doesnt need a whole platoon
taking out a buk projector doesnt need a platoon
killing a russian command post doesnt need a platoon
blowing up invidual vehicles with mines and AT weapons dont need a platoon

>>31363686
>And all got murdered by the gallon for every oz they kill.

Yeah but it still worked. By your logic the Soviet Union lost WW2 simply because they lost more people than Germany.

The Finns and Germans are the two major forces in the EU who are pushing for an EU army.

Maybe it's because the Finns feel theirs won't be capable to hold up vs Russia.

I wonder how the air war would play out, assuming russian OCA and spec ops dont wreck everything on the ground, 60 some hornets pack some firepower, especially when you consider JASSM strikes would hit vital targets in ze motherland

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>>31363700
Dubs confirm

>>31363650
We're you around for the Ukraine war threads? The ukrop military was like retards with guns. My sides never recovered when they drove 5 multimillion dollar vehicles in a ditch.

>>31363686
>What dispersion? The silly post of your that say 3 man teams go up and achieve objectives on their own?

Their objective could be to ambush a supply convoy of trucks.

I.E they set up an ambush with some mines and AT-4s. Fire them off and leave before anyone knows what happened. Worst case scenario is still just 3 people dead.

>>31363756
Russians win air superiority after taking disproportionate losses against the Finnish Air Force and Air Defences

>>31363740
>The Finns and Germans are the two major forces in the EU who are pushing for an EU army.

Germany I can understand but do you have a sauce?

The current spurdoparty or who ever is in charge for the moment might want it but
I doubth a majority of Finland thinks like that.

Finns won the winter war. Lost the continuation war. Read a bit about the treaty to the continuation war last night.

They got a really fucking good deal. Only 1 province ceded and one lend lessed and reparations? I thought for sure after stalingrad they would burn Helsinki to the ground.

>>31363686
>The silly post of your that say 3 man teams go up and achieve objectives on their own
Yes exactly this, comrade! How can soldier think for self? Impossible. Guerrilla warfare? Pah! Just rush enemy with mass mechanised infantry like real army!

>>31363756
Finland has rather anemic air defenses. I'd expect cruise missile strikes to destroy most of the air fields as an opening move for the Russians.

>>31363711
>Ah yes, that must be why Afghanistan is a Soviet state. Oh, wait.
Afghan Soviet Puppet State only lost because the sponsor collapsed and wasn't able to provide the funds necessary to maintain the state apparatus especially the military. Something like a 70% desertion rate happened in the 6 months after funding dried up and people's wages weren't paid.
>>31363734
>Yeah but it still worked. By your logic the Soviet Union lost WW2 simply because they lost more people than Germany.
That's because the Soviets simply exchanged a couple illiterate peasants that they had in spades all over Russia for every volkische. Finns don't nearly have enough trained manpower, especially excellent soldiers needed for standalone light infantry work to waste in shitty tactics that don't negate the enemy's firepower advantage.
>>31363728
Mines are ultimately a nuisance, unless backed up by fires. A convoy would just stop for a while, find a way around the forest (tanks are very handy here) and off they go their merry way.
Also, i would like to know what kind of recon assets you have that can scout out the locations of mobile assets that are well within the defensive umbrella of several offensive oriented units or being that far in the backfield.

>>31362953

It depends, there is the age old tradition of mobilising under the cover of a scheduled exercise. Like what the USSR was afraid of with Able Archer 83. Even earlier this year, a lot of the Turkish soldiers involved in the coup were told they were mobilising for a military exercise until it happened.

It's entirely possible that Russia could use one of its exercises where it mobilises tens of thousands of personnel as a cover for a surprise invasion of Finland. Still, there is no reason to believe they would ever do this. The risk is far greater than any plausible reward.

>>31363740
It's because Finland knows that only closer integration of the eu will allow Europe to compete politically, economically and militarily with the growing threats outside of the eu.

>>31363891
That's not what would happen though. European nations hate military spending. If the EU military ever actually happens they'll all just take it as an excuse to cut spending to practically nothing.

>>31363869
>A convoy would just stop for a while, find a way around the forest

Thats the problem. They would in that case need to cut down the forrest and build a road.

In the 400 km border between finland and Sweden there is a grand total of 5 roads that goes from the east to the west. I doubth the north of finland is much different. There just isnt any roads and those who exist would be blown up when the FDF retreats.

The Finns would never win a war against Russia alone, but it would such a pain in the ass to take Finland that Russia probably wont even bother.

>>31363869
>Also, i would like to know what kind of recon assets you have that can scout out the locations of mobile assets that are well within the defensive umbrella of several offensive oriented units or being that far in the backfield.

Could you make your web recon attempt more obvious, pls?

>>31364033
The Bv 206 is just pure sex, but the seats in the rear will kill your ass.

>>31363845
>I'd expect cruise missile strikes to destroy most of the air fields as an opening move for the Russians.

>implying that would matter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1piR6LPJ6I

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>>31362706
>Is the finnish military a meme?

Indeed

>>31363763
And yet, still no glorious victory for Russia.

>>31364089
>that feel when I'm fairly sure I've slept pretty close where this pic was taken.

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>>31364050
>>31364033

>>31362835

That sounds like you're making excuses.

>>31363258
Having a conscription system will do that. However, that does not mean that Finland actually have 250 000 wartime troops. It generally means, given that the wartime planning and preparations are solid that you will have a large amount of ground troops but quality will be suffering. And that matters less and less these days. Without the addition of a high-level core of air force and navy with high readiness there isn't a chance in hell that Finland will be able to mobilise before shit hits the fan.

Now, the state of their enemy (Russia) isn't at a point where that is a real threat, but it might be within 5 or 10 years, which is why Finland is looking to move away from conscription and focus on modernisation.

>>31364056
There's a difference between being able to take off on a highway, and maintaining and arming an aircraft in that sort of environment.

Plus while the Hornet is a decent aircraft, I don't expect the relatively small number of them Finland has to survive long against hundreds of Russian aircraft. The only real advantage it has is superior data-fusion.

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>>31363317
>Decisive

>>31363176
I assume he's referencing the fact that Sweden and Finland are best buddies. It would be a sort of obligation for Sweden to come to Finland's aid, but given the political climate in Sweden that is not a sure thing.

>>31364273
>referring to the political climate in sweden
the political climate in Sweden is that Finland is Swedens closest ally. There is nobody saying otherwise.

On the other hand, there is a large debate currently raging about a NATO membership, which, as it stands at the moment, will go through (minority government is against it, minority opposition demands it) if the composition of the government changes or should the right parties unite to push it through.

>>31364273
>given the political climate in Sweden that is not a sure thing
More like "given the state of the Swedish military". Sweden scrapped its invasion defence after the cold war and instead built up a small task force that can be sent to play in Afghanistan with the big boys and other nonsense. The politicians are only just now starting to accept that maybe we haven't entered into the era of eternal peace yet.

>>31364038
That guy is so obviously a delusional vatnik, that it isn't even funny.

>>31364273
It seems to me that it's pretty obvious that a Russian invasion of Finland is a massive threat to Swedish defence and sovereignty.

Considering the fact that Finland does not have any strategical value or any natural resources that Russia doesnt already have, Russians have no reason to to attack Finland what so ever...

Only plentiful natural resource that Finland has is forests and freshwater lakes. Russian millionares and even their president own quite a lot of land they have legally bought from finns around those lakes.

Why would they want to ruin their investments by bombing them to shit?

>>31364316
>>31364358
>Sweden's greatest defense against a possible Russian invasion is the vast population of Muslim immigrants who definitely have no jihadist bones in their bodies, none at all, and definitely would never arm themselves in spite of Swedish laws
Topkek.

>>31364112
Because muh sanctions, not superior Ukie army, still got Crimea though.

>>31362706
Pretty good for their size. Enough of a speed bump to allow NATO to counter.

If Finland were invaded by Russia, would the Swedes help the Finns? Or stay out unless directly attacked?

Anyone know if the Finn's have plans to replace their FA18s? F35, Gripen or Super Hornet would seem most appropriate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw8bimAc6i0

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>>31363317
>Decisive Russian victory

>>31364616
>>31364221
>Second Chechen War
Get a clue

>>31364419
It takes a special kind of retard to think that such parasites would fight for their host rather than just move to another one.

>>31364601
Will be replaced by 2025 IIRC, options are superbug, 35, gripen and rafale

>>31364582
>wearing the flak vest outside the snow suit
This is why everyone thinks artillerymen are retards

>>31364636
>implying Swedish caliphate isn't the ultimate goal
But yeah, you're right. Just shitposting.

>>31363740
>finns are pushing Eu army

Scuse me what? Could I get some soure for that? Because Our defense minister just said in interview that he doesnt see EU army happening because only france and Germany have large army and everyone else would just be freeloading off of them. Our members of european parliament also doubt it ever happening.

Finland is not pushing EU army, but instead pushing cooperation between EU states in training and crisis management and information exchange.

The more I read into the Finnish military, the more I'm amazed by their Mongolian Shamanism with their mix of East and West. Taking Moist Nuggets and refurbishing them into something that's not trash.

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>>31363845
>anemic Air Defense

Bitch you dont even know. Least we finally got some stingers.

>>31363845
Air defenses are okay, counter air is where it's lacking.

>>31364709
That's what you get for all your vox worthy programs. HMGs on quads.

>Finland vs Russia alone
Russia wins hands down
>Finland + allies vs Russia
RIP Russia

>>31364709
We've had Iglas for a long while, long before Stingers. Also plenty of actual AA missiles.

Yeah, not every low-level soldier even gets to see any of that crap during their service.

>>31367052
The majority of Finland's air-defense consists of MANPADS, autocannons, and short-range SAMs. The only serious air defense they have is NASAMS, which is still just AIM-120Cs. It could present problems for Russian air-assault via helicopter, but it's not really going to do anything to high-altitude aircraft.

File: 1473072713307.jpg (50KB, 531x419px) Image search: [Google]

50KB, 531x419px

>>31362835
>slavaboo detected