Nogunz here looking to get my first gun. I don't have the

>>31346206
Build an AR.

>>31346206
Build a $500 AR

>>31346206
Wait a little longer, save and buy/build an AR. Seriously, you're looking at a few hundred dollars difference between a mediocre platform (sks) and arguably the best intermediate cartridge rifle

>>31346230
Price is a big issue here. Time is the second issue. $400 is already putting a big dent in my savings and I wouldn't want to go above this.

>>31346273
While that does sound like a tempting goal, I have done almost no research on ARs compared to the Mosin and SKS. From what I know about price points, isn't a $500 AR going to be really shitty?

>>31346308
Adding on to this, one of the main reasons I like the SKS is that I wouldn't be reliant on a magazine. I have some autistic idea that one day I'm going to live in a wasteland and I feel like being able to hand-load a rifle without relying on a peripheral part that could be lost or damaged is an advantage.

>>31346308
Dude just do some odd jobs on the side and earn $100-200 more. You've shown you can save up to $400, so you're capable of doing a little more. If by "time" you mean the election, you have plenty to make a hundred bucks.

>>31346308
A $500 AR will be perfectly fine for anything you would be doing. Buy a completed our stripped lower at your discretion since they're easy as shit to put together, and then buy a completed upper and pop them together

>>31346342
Okay Stalin.

If you care that much just never take the mag out.

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>>31346206
Get an SKS.
Then a Mosin.

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Congratulations, you just came.

>>31346346
>>31346358
I can save up the money, yeah. I'm just not as knowledgeable about ARs and am not quite sure where to look.

The second thing is I'm not too sure if I'd even have any business at a gun show if i'm going to build an AR> Stuff like that sounds like it'd be cheaper to hunt for deals online. I was prepared to try and haggle prices on an SKS.

I've been to a couple gun shows as a kid, but never as a buyer. Last I remember like 70% of the vendors just had AR shit. Am I gonna get shooed away when I try and talk someone's price down or am I gonna be stopped at the door by retarded prices in the first place?

>>31346364
Ha вкyc и цвeт тoвapищeй нeт

>>31346445
That was my original plan but these AR guys are making a tough argument.

>>31346460
You buy the AR stuff online, not at a gun show. There are rarely ever any decent deals at gun shows. Go order an Anderson or PSA or whatever other cheapo lower and have it sent to your FFL. Then get a PSA completed upper (not one of their PTAC ones though) and a rear sight shipped to your door. If you got a stripped lower you'll also need a lower parts kit, there are a million places that make them and they're mostly the same shit.

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You can get some ARs for $500 matey

>>31346206
if non-russian/chinese is okay there's this:

https://www.classicfirearms.com/yugo-sks-semi-auto-excellent

>>31346849
The lack of a chrome-lined barrel on most Yugo SKS makes is that much more unappealing. Plus I've just heard nothing good about them ever. Even Norinco is pushing it for me.

>>31346445
are most sks stocks supposed to look like that? Or is that a refinish? I've got a Norinco, and the stock is definitely darker red and more beat up than that one.

>>31347222
Chinkwood comes in either blond or rosey.

>>31346206
Get the sks. They're incredibly reliable, accurate for whay they are, and still pretty affordable. Also there are a plethora of reasons that 10 round fixed mag is an advantage rather than a disadvantage.

To build on this post, what do as far as sks care? What food should I feed it? Is steel fine, or should I go brass? Where do I get clips from?

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>>31348054
Look up to see if you can find any Seller&Bellot bulk 7.62x39 ammo. If you find any, they all come in stripper clips in the crate. Is good. I'll post my crate so you can see.

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>>31348214

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>>31348220

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>>31348233
Almost done, 1 more picture left. I got a new SKS tonight actually for 250 beaverbucks

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>>31348243

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>>31347874
Thanks my dude. Here's the norinco. This is right after the reassembly concluding cosmo removal.

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>>31348254
My new gun

>>31348274
nice stock
>the shellac is stronk with this one

>>31348274
>>31348270

lookin' sexy, bros

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>>31348291
Right? It looks so beautiful

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>>31348294
>>31348291
Here's my second SKS. Actually the first one I bought. Second one was a cheap refurb so I bubba'd it cause why not. I'll post that next.

>>31348301
man... mine looks like ass compared to that finish, damn

>>31348054
Also, I would probably want one with a bayonet, is there anything I should be aware of , like what variants have a bayo and which don't, or should I just go ahead and look?

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>>31348323
You can get ones with a blade bayonet, and ones with a spike. If you stab someone or thing with the spike they die. >>31348316
Thank you friend :)

>>31348274
>>31348301
This is the new one, (Help me pick a name for this one guys)
>>31348315
This is my first one, (Natasha)
>>31348337
This is the americanized one. (Anna)

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>>31348346
jealous?

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>>31348373
Should I be?

>>31348373
>>31348387
How much do the russian ones go for & where do you get them?

>>31348387
of course u do lol
if thats the same rifle as above with the beautiful shellac i just have one question
>hows it in that great condition for being 66 years old?

>>31348404
The land of the frozen lakes, of the terrifying fucking moose, of the doom shits known as canadian geese. This is where you will find Russian surplus my friend. Russian surplus for cheap. Take a look and glimpse into our realm....
http://www.cabelas.ca/product/78682/russian-sks-semi-auto-rifle-w-laminate-stock
>>31348416
Lol I used to work at the Cabelas' in town; I was good friends with the guy behind the gun counter today. He picked out the best SKS they had in stock for me. As for the condition
>i have no fucking idea, but I sure am happy

>>31348337
God, look at that ugly fucking thing.

>>31348428
I know I know... I did it because I really wanted to. I'm actually gonna put the regular old stock back on it, but I'm gonna keep the magazines, because the kwikrail doesn't let stripper clips in there.

>>31348404
the 1952 is $350 from SoCal guns
>its actually an early variant sino-soviet tula armory sks, marked as a type 56. its 40 inches tho and not 44 inches so as far as i can tell its an sks and not type 56. That being said it has some chinese parts u can tell the chinese steel is darker it also has some nips initials on the firing pin. all the serial numbers match tho

>>31348427
>Lol I used to work at the Cabelas' in town; I was good friends with the guy behind the gun counter today. He picked out the best SKS they had in stock for me. As for the condition
>>i have no fucking idea, but I sure am happy
so i assume its an early variant. someone told me recently that since mine is also early variant if i load it and shake it violently it will fire.
>have u tested this? i havent been back to the range since hearing this

>>31348435
http://brassstacker.com/sks/sks-see-thru-scout-scope-mount.html

And put the fucking bayonet back on. It looks pathetic with it's empty lug hanging down there.

>>31348454
I saved the bayonet, don't worry. I'll put it back on. In fact I'll do that tomorrow, okay? I'll start a new thread with >>31348337
as the OP image. Watch out for it.

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Not op but also nogunz trying to get one. I'm in a similar mindset, I like older, wooden stock rifles, though I especially have my sights on bolt actions. My budget's in the same ship, too, at 400$ or less, and so far the most tempting thing I've seen online is pic related. Should I just go for it?

>>31348523
If you pay $400 for a mosin I will come to your house and kill your dog like I'm in the ATF

>>31348523
I've got one for sale.

>>31348585
it's finnish

>>31348593
And that makes it a different rifle?

>>31346453
Not even in my most wonderful dreams have I beheld anything so beautiful.

>>31348592
Neat

>>31348599
more collectible, higher rarity, more value

>>31348626
And any of this matters to a first time buyer how?None of that shit matters to anyone who just wants to shoot the thing. A finnish mosin and a chinese mosin shoot the exact same. For $400 buy a goddamn mauser

>>31346206
unless you have enough money for a decent $800+ AR plus $300 more for ammo, just get the sks.

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>>31348656
>implying .223 is more expensive than 7.62x39
>implying you need to spend $800 on a good AR
WEW
E
W

>>31348639
>A finnish mosin and a chinese mosin shoot the exact same.
you want to know how i can tell you know nothing about milsurp?

>>31348664
You wanna know how I can tell you're a total dip?

>>31348662
>>implying .223 is more expensive than 7.62x39
>implying i was implying that
whats the point of buying a shitty $500 AR that may or may not feed all that steel case if he cant afford more than a couple magazines worth of bullets?

>>implying you need to spend $800 on a good AR
great idea, spend $500 on a meh tier rifle, just to replace 90% of it down the line. much smarter than buying what you actually want on the thing the first time

>>31348668
>makes a blatantly ignorant claim
>gets salty when hes told hes wrong

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>>31348662
AR's suck
>especially the shitty $600 ones
>especially when u throw $500 worht of sights and grips and shit on ur rifle
just get an SKS op ull be happier with the SKS

>>31348682
>I know nothing about AR's so let me tell you about them
S&W M&P ii is a more than passable beginner AR and it's ~600. If you decide to replace parts that's $15 here, $60 there, maybe $200 if you spring for a BCG. That's a huge difference between buying all that shit up front. Steel case ammo is garbage and shouldn't be shot out of anything, but you could put it through the m&p ii
>>31348691
OP there is a reason that even the slavs figured they should replace the sks. Special snowflake here just wants to be unique. That is the literal only reason to pick an SKS over an AR

>>31348690
Okay so tell me exactly what changes on a finnish mosin. The action? The sights? The tolerances? Fantastic, tolerances are clearly incredibly important and justify doubling the cost of the rifle on a bolt action milsurp gun when you can buy a rifle that is superior in every facet for the same price. Mausers are $400. Finnish mosins are $400. Only dipshit newguns actually buy any mosins for anything more than $200

Obviously the finnish is superior. But it is not double the price superior unless you're a nugget autist

>>31348702
>>I know nothing about AR's so let me tell you about them
yeah, nothing except the two that i built.

>S&W M&P ii is a more than passable beginner AR and it's ~600
so $200 over budget and were still basic bitch with no ammo. gotcha

>If you decide to replace parts that's $15 here, $60 there, maybe $200 if you spring for a BCG
try a couple hundred for a decent barrel, a couple hundred for a decent bcg, a couple hundred for a decent trigger, plus small amounts for several other parts that he will almost certainly want to replace down the line.

>Steel case ammo is garbage and shouldn't be shot out of anything, but you could put it through the m&p ii
theres literally nothing wrong with steel case if youre a poorfag or a beginner

>>31348718
a finn mosin is superior to a m48. get over it wehraboo.

>>31348702
>Special snowflake here just wants to be unique. That is the literal only reason to pick an SKS over an AR
that or value for money
sks costs 1/2 of what the S&W M&P costs
>you can get 40 stripper clips for the price of one magazine
and the sks can eat any shitty steal ammo no problem. I've literally fed rounds into my sks that my uncles AR wouldnt fire.
>also my sks (the 1952 one) has only jammed 1 single time
>Whenever i go shooting with someone who brings an AR its always (like my uncle)
Charging handle, click
charging handle, BANG, click
charging handle, click
Charging handle, BANG, BANG, BANG, click
and back the the charging handle.


>its always the special snowflakes who get AR's kuz they want fancy foregrips and a super neato sight with predator dots and hexagons and shit
Plus the AR15's are black. they are criminal rifles! havent you watched the news? aren't they illegal yet lol

Get an sks
>can't ban the simonov

>>31346206
Buy a AR. Palmetto State rifle kit with nice MOE furniture http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-midlength-5-56-nato-1-7-melonite-acs-l-rifle-kit.html

or you can get one of their cheaper kits for 100 bucks less. Then you just need to grab rear sights, so grab some Magpul MBUS sights off amazon or Palmetto if they have them. I got mine for like $40.

You're probably old enough to buy a AR-15 lower receiver (which is all you need to complete the rifle kit, you gotta be 21 to buy it though)

Then buy however many magazines you want/ammo. Cleaning supplies would be good too.

Finnish mosin nogunz here, this is why it's been 3 weeks and I still have no solid idea of what to get

>>31348735
Literally everything you said to replace would be absolutely fine for a poorfag or beginner.

>replace barrel
Why do you need to do that on an AR but not an SKS? Do you actually believe the barrel on a russian milsurp rifle from 1958 is better than a current s&w melonite barrel?
>$200 over budget for basic bitch
Yeah but you still have a rifle that beats the shit out of an sks in every way for a few hours worth of extra work
>try a couple hundred for a decent barrel, a couple hundred for a decent bcg, a couple hundred for a decent trigger, plus small amounts for several other parts that he will almost certainly want to replace down the line.
>barrel
see above
>BCG
stock bcg is better than that of SKS
>decent trigger
stock trigger is better than that of SKS
>several amounts of other parts
such as? Quite intentionally vague here to mage your argument seem more substantial
>theres literally nothing wrong with steel case if youre a poorfag or a beginner
The poorest of poorfags can afford to not shoot steel
>>31348753
>value for money/double the cost
m&p costs $200 more than an SKS. If you can find a $200 SKS let me know
>fed rounds into my sks that my uncles rifle wouldn't fire
well maybe you should try feeding 5.56 into your uncles AR
>my sks has only jammed once
My AR hasn't jammed in four years. Bullshit on your uncles AR. You've never shot an AR and your uncle doesn't own one. It consistently beats out AK's, which I own, in reliability.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAneTFiz5WU
>>31348774
do not fucking buy a $400 mosin. Mauser action is used in every bolt action rifle that is made today. There is a reason for that.

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>>31348774
if ur a no guns their are 3 obvious choices
>Ruger MKII ~$300 used
>Ruger 10/22 ~$350 new
>SKS ~$350 used

Dont listen to these AR-fags. unless you have $1500 to build the snowflake-AR u want its not fucking worth it. Don't build one, they come out like shit, jamming all the damn time. AR's are complicated, so many damn options, and IMO totally not worth buying unless its direct impingement. When ppl are like its a $2000 AR! isn't it neet? Im like "direct impingement or gas system" ... "its got a gas tube" "its shit u wasted your money"


GET A FUCKING SKS, its a cheap reliable rifle. If you don't like SKS its really not the rifle, its you.

>plus i really like how fucking easy it is to take the SKS apart. easy as fuck.

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>>31346548
l-lewd

>>31348788
Where should I be looking for a Mauser then?

And at what price should I be looking for one, then?

>>31348788
>m&p costs $200 more than an SKS. If you can find a $200 SKS let me know
M&P costs ~$600 and realy more like $650 where I live
>well maybe you should try feeding 5.56 into your uncles AR
his special snowflake AR shoots 7.62x39 you simpleton

>>31348821
Here you go

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/584327384

Peruse gunbroker. Look at the prices of ammo as well because they're chambered for different cartridges depending on the country of manufacture. If you want something milsurp that shoots a more affordable round and still has the aesthetic, look at french mas39. Fucking great rifles and I know for a fact you can get ammo for them at a good price, and the rifles still go for ~350 on gunbroker for very good condition

>>31348788
>Literally everything you said to replace would be absolutely fine for a poorfag or beginner.
>reading comprehension
the point is to get the poorfag gun because hes a poorfag instead of buying a shitty AR that hes just going to replace in the not too distant future, anyway

>Why do you need to do that on an AR but not an SKS? Do you actually believe the barrel on a russian milsurp rifle from 1958 is better than a current s&w melonite barrel?
again, you miss the point. why put the extra money into a gun that gives not no particular benefit (since hes a beginner) and that hes going to replace?

>Yeah but you still have a rifle that beats the shit out of an sks in every way for a few hours worth of extra work
no, you dont. the only way a $500 ar beats an sks is magazine capacity. and for that you pay at leas $100 extra and run the risk of not being able to feed steelcase

>stock bcg is better than that of SKS
>stock trigger is better than that of SKS
see above

>such as? Quite intentionally vague here to mage your argument seem more substantial
like potentially every single piece of his rifle depending on his personal preferences

>The poorest of poorfags can afford to not shoot steel
this is not only wrong, but stupid.

>>31348821
dont listen to those idiots. an m39 is better than a m48 in nearly every way.

>>31348816
Source? Iqdb and google aren't helping

>>31348788
>do not fucking buy a $400 mosin.
so much this
>the crossroads gunshow has a scam artist who sells 91/30's for fucking $350+ dont fucking buy a nugget for more than like $150 TOPS

>>31348832
>gee I wonder why this platform designed for 5.56/.223 doesn't shoot 7.62 well
AR's chambered for 7.62 never perform well. The same is true for AK's in 5.56. I bought a saiga 223 and it shot like shit so I traded it for a saiga 7.62 and it shoots fine

>>31348838
The image of the wolf girl? I got it from /pol/, she's the anime mascot of the trump fans

>>31346206
Im a nogunz college kid too but my AR parts just came in. However, in the area im in, a lot of people have 12 gauges. Apparently you can buy like 90 clays for 5 bucks at walmart, get 25 shells for 5 bucks too. Just walking into the local gun store I found nice 12 gauges for $300 or lower.

Just another thing to consider I suppose. Shotguns are great since there are so many different loads.

Im definitely going to grab a 12 gauge next.

>>31348850
Well thanks anyway. It's Momiji Inubashiri from Touhou.

>>31348842
>dont fucking buy a nugget for more than like $150 TOPS
>dont buy a nugget for more than ($50 over average price for a nugget)
why is /k/ perpetually stuck in 2008? and why do you people not realize that finn mosins are almost completely different rifles than any other countries' but still feel the need to comment on them?

>>31348859
>>31348850
I was wondering if you had the full image/knew where it was..

>>31348860
$50 under average price for a nugget*

>>31348846
>AR's never perform well.
fixed that for you

aren't you the idiot who said sks's are for snowflakes? Whats more snowflake than chambering an AR with AK food. Its like every last one of you ARfags are totally delusional.
>are u also the person who said u built 2?
So maybe ur an expert but why the fuck you would recommend an AR to a beginner. its soooo not a "first rifle" rifle.

take ur hipster bullshit AR advice elsewhere.

>>31348836
>the point is to get the poorfag gun because hes a poorfag instead of buying a shitty AR that hes just going to replace in the not too distant future, anyway
If the point is to buy a poorfag gun he can build an AR from PSA for ~500. Those things shoot even better than the s&w ones depending on what you buy
>again, you miss the point. why put the extra money into a gun that gives not no particular benefit (since hes a beginner) and that hes going to replace?
No, you miss the point. If he doesn't have to replace the barrel on the SKS he doesn't have to replace it on the AR. He just has the option to, which is something he doesn't have the option to on the SKS. God forbid he gets money later on and would rather make his current rifle better than have to buy a new one
>see above
addressed, he doesn't have to as they will do better than that on the SKS but he can if he wants to. Which you can't on an SKS.
>like potentially every single piece of his rifle depending on his personal preferences
Name a single part on the AR that we haven't talked about that would be something you want to buy to increase performance. No BCG, barrel, trigger allowed.
>this is not only wrong, but stupid.
Yeah I forgot that food stamps can't buy you federal .223
>>31348860
Tell me how it's different. The tolerances and materials are better. Those are great things. Those are not things worth doubling the cost of the rifle

>>31348867
big 5 still sells nuggets for $99
>and thats in Commiefornia
maybe ur nugget market is shit but its not like that for everyone, so what if the finnish one is good, most of them aren't worth a ton

>>31348868
>>AR's never perform well.
Aside from the mud tests that show AR's outperform AK's in reliability. And accuracy. And you also completely missed the point of what I said. AR's chambered in 7.62 are inherintly less reliable than those in 5.56, same with AK's that are chambered in 5.56. lrn2read
>are u also the person who said u built 2?
Nope that was the other guy. Also
>implying an AR isn't the perfect beginner rifle
How fucking stupid are you? They're insanely reliable now, you can find parts for them in most tip jars, and they shoot the single most common rifle round in the world.

Before you come on /k/ again go shoot a fucking gun instead of masturbating to the history channel

>>31348868
Hi noguns, AR's are the single best beginner rifle there is. The military literally issues millions of them to 17 year olds who have never seen a gun in their lives

>>31346230
>>31346273

Different anon, but I'm not really interested in building an AR. If I get one, I just want to buy it because the only reason I want it is to have it before I can no longer buy one (CA resident).

What off the shelf AR isn't awful?

>>31348873
>No, you miss the point. If he doesn't have to replace the barrel on the SKS he doesn't have to replace it on the AR. He just has the option to, which is something he doesn't have the option to on the SKS. God forbid he gets money later on and would rather make his current rifle better than have to buy a new one
>why have two rifles in two calibers when you can have one and a bunch of parts you will never use and cost several hundred dollars
its truly a mystery
>Name a single part on the AR that we haven't talked about that would be something you want to buy to increase performance. No BCG, barrel, trigger allowed.
>what are rails, sights, grip, stock, gas system, and charging handle
>what are aesthetic chances

>LITERALLY arguing that people dont use steelcase

>Tell me how it's different. The tolerances and materials are better. Those are great things. Those are not things worth doubling the cost of the rifle
every part of the rifle is replaced with well fitting and high quality parts you fucking mong. try actually looking into something before you shit on it because "m-muh mauser"

>>31348874
>lying on the internet

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>>31348893
>missed the point of what I said.
The other anon here >>31348873 kept telling u, that u were missing the point. now thats what ur telling me? I really doubt ur intelligence here, parroting "insults" is like projecting.


>>31348893
>>implying an AR isn't the perfect beginner rifle
>How fucking stupid are you? They're insanely reliable now,
just fucking stop, they have shit reliability.
>Before you come on /k/ again go shoot a fucking gun
this is /k/ everyone here has guns, calling someone a noguns is a really shallow insult

sry u bought into the AR propoganda. I dont like them because they jam all the damn time and sks is better value for money. Deal with it.

>>31348915
Off the shelf the s&w m&pii is good. The ruger counterpart is also good but QC isn't as nice and the price is almost identical. Being in CA, you'd be insane to not buy a PSA kit like this:

http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-midlength-5-56-nato-1-7-socom-melonite-freedom-rifle-kit.html

And pair it with a stripped lower (runs $70, even in CA). Bam, you have an AR and the only part that has to go to an FFL is the lower. That being said, there's no bullet button on it so I think it's not CA legal

>>31348926
Wait, so you're saying that having a rifle for $100 more, if you go the PSA build route, that you can replace parts on as you like, and sell the stock ones if you don't want to keep them as replacements is a bad thing?
>sights, rails, grip, stock, gas system, charging handle, aesthetics
So he can change these things on an AR while he can't on an SKS. Tell me again how this is a bad thing

>every part of the rifle is replaced with well fitting and high quality parts you fucking mong. try actually looking into something before you shit on it because "m-muh mauser"
>LITERALLY buying an inferior rifle for the same price because m-muh russians

>>31348915
>the only reason I want it is to have it before I can no longer buy one (CA resident).
buying it before its illegal, good man.

>>31348927
You just tried to use a post I made as an argument against me. Watch the video I posted. AR's beat out AK's in reliability tests every single time and it isn't close

If you have a gun the SKS is the only one you own and you've never shot an AR. You're clearly new to guns which is fine, but don't go off spouting wrong opinions as though they're correct. They steer first time buyers in the wrong direction

>>31348957

Problem?

>>31348973
No problem. You're smart.

>>31348956
>Wait, so you're saying that having a rifle for $100 more, if you go the PSA build route, that you can replace parts on as you like, and sell the stock ones if you don't want to keep them as replacements is a bad thing?
>actually thinking you can sell basic bitch ar parts
youll have trouble giving them away
>So he can change these things on an AR while he can't on an SKS. Tell me again how this is a bad thing
>tell me why a poorfag buying a more expensive gun with no measurable benefit, which youre just going to replace every part of later for an even greater loss is worse than buying a poorfag gun and waiting to build or buy a quality gun when you actually have the money

>LITERALLY buying an inferior rifle for the same price because m-muh russians
>LITERALLY thinking finn mosins are russian mosins
are you an actual retard? the only part of a finn mosin that may be russian is the receiver.

>>31348973
no thats smart.
buying before its illegal is totally valid in my mind, especially in commiefornia with gunmageddon looming

>>31348956
>>sights, rails, grip, stock, gas system, charging handle, aesthetics
>So he can change these things on an AR while he can't on an SKS. Tell me again how this is a bad thing
didnt u see the plastic SKS the other anon posted where he changed the sights rails grips and stock?
clearly u have ur head up ur ass if you think they dont make upgrades for ur sks.


>>31348970
ButthARt
>how can opinions be wrong, they are opinions.
also anyone who is new to shooting should buy an SKS and not an AR. save them a lot of money and they wont have to sell the abomination-AR when they learn what they really want.

>AR's are for idiots. their i said it.

>>31348993
>youll have trouble giving them away
Alright so now you're just going to ignore facts. They (bolt carrier groups) go for ~$100 depending on how many rounds are through them on gunbroker. Even so it's a moot point because out of the box it's still a better rifle than an SKS. So he could replace 0 parts and still have a better rifle
>are you an actual retard? the only part of a finn mosin that may be russian is the receiver.
It's a russian design you fucking dipshit that's what I was saying, it doesn't matter who manufactured it. There's only so much that can be done with a mosin design and the mauser design is objectively better. Every bolt action rifle made today uses the fucking mauser action for a goddamn reason, how can you even try to argue this?

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this thread has become a flame war because of these fucking AR faggots
>AR's suck
>AR's jam
>AR's are overpriced
>AR's are VERY overpriced
>AR's aren't superior to ak, sks
>AR's are only for fudd's

AR fags will defend the Chauchat like "they dont suck?! only blah blah american version blah croak blah viva la france huhuhu"

>>31348998
>clearly u have ur head up ur ass if you think they dont make upgrades for ur sks.
Yeah there are just as many upgrades available for the SKS as there are AR's. Free floats are freely available for the SKS. Same with trigger groups. And new bolt carrier groups.

The only fucking thing you can change on an SKS is the stock
>>31349017
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAneTFiz5WU
AR15 mud test

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX73uXs3xGU
AK 47 mud test

>>31348998
Holy shit did you drop out of the fourth grade or what? How many little red lines were there before you hit "post"?

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>>31349024
THEY WORK GREAT!!!

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>>31349033
>completely ignores video proof he's wrong

>>31349033
You realize the only issue with the chauchat was that the magazine was open to mud and the like, right?

>>31349014
>It's a russian design you fucking dipshit that's what I was saying, it doesn't matter who manufactured it.
confirmed retard. good parts and manufacturing process are absolutely crucial to producing anything of value.

>There's only so much that can be done with a mosin design and the mauser design is objectively better.
its not. there is nothing objectively better about a mauser action than a mosin. in fact, the mosin is easier to produce, stronger, easier to assemble and disassemble and has fewer parts.

>every bolt action rifle made today uses the fucking mauser action for a goddamn reason, how can you even try to argue this?
some current production bolt actions use variations of mauser actions because of the marketing genius of the mauser brothers. the action itself doesnt do anything particularly well.

>>31349042
>some current production bolt actions use variations of mauser actions because of the marketing genius of the mauser brothers. the action itself doesnt do anything particularly well.
Alright well I'm not sure why I responded to you in the first place

>>31349053
>i cant even think of a single thing a mauser does better than its contemporaries

>>31349064
Well aside from have a smoother more reliable action. Which is, ya know, the only thing that actually matters on the action of a bolt action rifle

>>31349041
the long ass spring and over complicated firing mechanism also caused it to jam.
>and by the fucking way open magazines isnt a small issue, if it was the only issue, which it wasnt thats still a massive issue.

I fucking knew these AR fags would defend the Chauchat. A machine gun that is widely accepted as being the worst piece of shit death trap machine gun ever designed by the frogs.
>it really give u insight into the fucked up mind of AR fags

>>31349069
I don't own an ar. I'm just not dumb enough to think that you can equate a french lmg from 1915 to an american rifle one hundred years later.

Also this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCwP3Dm52Ls

>>31349067
>t-the only thing that matters is the thing i personally like about mausers
finn mosins are just as smooth as your average mauser and smoother actions exist.

>>31349067
oh sorry, i forgot
>more reliable action
and how exactly is one bolt action rifle more reliable than the other?

>>31349076
No they're not. Tell me a smoother action. And tell me why mauser actions are used in not some, but every bolt action rifle made today, with maybe a single exception that I can't think of off the top of my head. Tell me how good the mauser brothers marketing was that it's lasted the better part of two centuries

>>31349024
pour gritty mud into open ak internals- it stops working
pour gritty mud over ar's fully covered internals- it still works
well no shit sherlock, I dont think anyone whos experienced with either weapon would argue that the ar is more reliable this is just a retarded test to bust a retarded myth (you can pull fully working aks out of swamps)

>>31349087
that's the point of a dust cover you fucking idiot. you can't use a dust cover on aks

>>31349085
>Tell me a smoother action.
lee enfield and Mannlicher/Schoenauer off the top of my head.

>And tell me why mauser actions are used in not some, but every bolt action rifle made today, with maybe a single exception that I can't think of off the top of my head.
if by "mauser actions" you mean two front locking lugs, youre right. if you mean any other component of a mauser action, not so much.

>Tell me how good the mauser brothers marketing was that it's lasted the better part of two centuries
well enough to sell an objectively "just above par" action for its time to a good portion of the world.

>>31349087
loose tolerances handle mud poorly. tight tolerances handle it well.

ar has tight tolerances. ar handles it well. ak does not. ak is not reliable like ar is. the first ars from the 50's and 60's had a different action. after that got sorted out, they were revealed to be much more reliable than aks. If this were vietnam you would be correct though

>>31346206
If you can find one for 300 or less do it.

>>31349104
not that guy but youre making this far more black and white than it is. which is more reliable depends almost entirely on the circumstances. mud test videos just test one very specific situation

>>31349102
>lee enfield and Mannlicher/Schoenauer off the top of my head.
except that objectively wrong and I like my lee enfield more than my mausers. The only thing that the enfield action has over the mauser is that it's cock in close, which is great for speed but terrible for accuracy
>if by "mauser actions" you mean two front locking lugs, youre right. if you mean any other component of a mauser action, not so much.
mausers have three locking lugs

alright well you're a dipshit. Shoot more guns, lurk, and then post

>>31349117
You're right, but under the vast majority of circumstances AR's are much more reliable. Unless you intend to bury a rifle for 30 years an AR wins out every time. Or if you plan on pouring a gallon of sand inside your receiver while you're cleaning your bolt group. Those are only two times that an AK is objectively more reliable. In mud, water, muck, rotten vegetation, etc an AR is more reliable simply because it has such a tiny opening for things to get through, and a dust cover to keep them from getting in, and tight tolerances that work better for everything aside from sand.

>>31349118
>except that objectively wrong and I like my lee enfield more than my mausers.
i own two lees and a mauser. the lees are smoother.

>The only thing that the enfield action has over the mauser is that it's cock in close, which is great for speed but terrible for accuracy
cock on close is not what makes lees less accurate than its contemporaries

>mausers have three locking lugs
two on the front and a third in the rear.

>Shoot more guns, lurk, and then post
i can almost guarantee that i own more guns, shoot more, and read more than you do.

>>31349131
>i own two lees and a mauser. the lees are smoother.
Opposite for me. Maybe your mauser or me lee isn't polished enough, but it's not like enfield has any lack of publicity or marketing on their action. If it was truly superior it would be the norm, but the mauser is
>cock on close is not what makes lees less accurate than its contemporaries
no, but it is what makes it faster. And when you use it the way the brits used the mad minute all accuracy goes out the window, hence the implication. The only reason to pick an enfield action over a mauser is the potential for speed, which is obviously not something people give a shit about in bolt actions now
>i can almost guarantee that i own more guns, shoot more, and read more than you do.
I really doubt that, everyone on /k/ owns 300 guns and shoots 18 hours a day

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>>31349125
aks are more reliable in cold, wet, and sandy conditions. these are objective facts.

>>31349157
How cold? I shoot in Minnesota a lot, during the winter as well, and I've never had to use my forward assist. The wet conditions I've never seen but I'll take your word for it. Already said AK was better in sand

>>31348874

Commiefornia here.

Nuggets are scarce. Last seen at Turner's for (I think) $250 or so. On sale.

>>31349125
have to disagree, leave behind a bunch of AK-47s in Africa, middle east and south America 50 years later some kid from the congo can still pick one up and use it, now if you did the same with a bunch of AR-15s I very much doubt you'd have the same situation you might be interested in this article

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/the-usas-m4-carbine-controversy-03289/
>"Among M4 users, however, 19% of said they experienced stoppages in combat – and almost 20% of those said they were “unable to engage the target with that weapon during a significant portion of or the entire firefight after performing immediate or remedial action to clear the stoppage.”
I know its not an AR-15 exactly, but you'd never hear anything like that from a member of the AK-47 family

>>31349155
>If it was truly superior it would be the norm, but the mauser is
im not saying a lee is superior. just that the action is smoother, or at least has the potential to be.

>no, but it is what makes it faster. And when you use it the way the brits used the mad minute all accuracy goes out the window, hence the implication.
fair point

>The only reason to pick an enfield action over a mauser is the potential for speed, which is obviously not something people give a shit about in bolt actions now
they both work fine for what they are. im not particular to either but they both kil pigs/deer/paper just fine. the mauser is a little more accurate though.

>I really doubt that, everyone on /k/ owns 300 guns and shoots 18 hours a day
fair enough

>>31349172
>have to disagree, leave behind a bunch of AK-47s in Africa, middle east and south America 50 years later some kid from the congo can still pick one up and use it, now if you did the same with a bunch of AR-15s I very much doubt you'd have the same situation you might be interested in this article
Again, I already said that yeah that would be the case. Looser tolerances mean corrosion isn't an issue. That also means that you can leave a rifle buried for decades and it can be shot.
>I know its not an AR-15 exactly, but you'd never hear anything like that from a member of the AK-47 family
No, because they completely reworked the action. Modern AR's are insanely reliable in any condition beyond being in the arctic circle, buried for 50 years, or getting sand poured into the receiver while the bcg is removed. The rifle has changed in the 70 years since the link you posted happened

>>31349168
-20F

>>31349181
>im not saying a lee is superior. just that the action is smoother, or at least has the potential to be.
I disagree on that one. I care for my guns well and do all I can for their actions, but my mausers are smoother. Maybe you can get a lee smoother, and maybe mine just has a shitty action, but that's not what I've yet to encounter any mauser, or modern mauser action, that isn't smoother than my lee.
>they both work fine for what they are. im not particular to either but they both kil pigs/deer/paper just fine. the mauser is a little more accurate though.
Yeah they all work great, but the mauser is more accurate (maybe slightly) than the lee. And the lee is more accurate than the mosin. So why buy a mosin over either of those two rifles now that you can buy at least a mauser or the same price? And the ammo isn't even a significant difference anymore either

>>31349184
Makes sense, but that's like saying the AK will perform better on mars. It's irrelevant as unless you go hunting in Antarctica it won't matter, whereas mud and muck are something that any shooter can encounter in the woods

>>31349192
>And the lee is more accurate than the mosin.
a finn nugget is more accurate than many mausers and most lees. they have reputations for excellent accuracy.

>>31349209
I seriously doubt that given the ballistics of the 7.62r vs the 8mm

>>31349212
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-552985.html
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?71160-Expected-M39-accuracy
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=336058

just google m39 accuracy. accuracy is not a measure of ballistic potential btw. especially not at average shooting distances.

>>31349218
Honestly I'm sure it's plenty accurate. I've shot plenty of mosins and they've all shot fine to distances that I can't see. My issue is that the action of a mauser is smoother and more accurate, or at least just as accurate as you put it, and it shoots a better round. So if all things, including price, are the same why not get the rifle with better sights, what most view as a smoother action, and shoots a better round that costs essentially the same as nugget food? I just don't know why you'd pick a finnish nugget when there are zero advantages to it over a mauser

>>31349233
same reason as you, mostly personal taste. i prefer rifles with history, prefer the sights, prefer the look, and have plenty of 54r from when it was 20cpr. you prefer the mauser, i prefer the finn mosin. any differences for range and hunting use are purely personal taste. it just triggered my 'tism when people were talking shit about a gun they knew nothing about.

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You know, we should probably have a /k/ competition to see who can build the cheapest fully-functional semiautomatic rifle using "off-the-shelf" commercially-available components, within a given time-frame.

It must have all the regular functionality of a real weapon, but can dispense with any auxiliary components like rails or scopes.

>>31349244
Well of course it comes down to personal preference. "fuck you I like it" is a perfectly valid reason to pick a mosin to, lets say, hunt with over something from remington. But you can't tell someone who hasn't developed those preferences to buy something when there's an alternative that has some benefits that your choice does not
>>31349257
We should also have a price limit imho

>>31346308
A 500$ AR will out shoot an sks, ammo is about the same, there's and aftermarket so you can upgrade it later as you like. Usually ARs will shoot 1 moa out of the box, milsurp stuff tends to be 2-3 when they're LNIB.

Palmetto state armory runs good deals on kits, you save by building the rifle yourself. Just check periodically for sales. Oh and use a credit card if you buy from them, there's wide rumor that they're site security is comprimised.

The best base level AR is probably an s&w sport II. Ruger makes a decent one as well.

Don't buy an AR for and think youre ready for SHTF, that's just the goofy shit, practice survival skills and make a plan to get the fuck out if you think the zombies/dindus/jihadis/nukes/reds/1%/obama/hillary/trump disaster are really going to be a near future thing for you.

>>31349263
i wasnt telling him to buy something objectively worse. i was telling him to buy something objectively on par with what others were telling him to buy. a mauser has no particular objective benefits over a finn mosin. you just personally prefer the sights and action and its not like a new shooter is going to be taking advantage of the marginal ballistic advantage of 8mm, especially when hes using turk surplus.

>>31349279
Yeah point taken. Not like he'd be going for .3 moa with something made 80 years ago.

That being said mas39 or gtfo

>>31349283
i dont own a mas. whats all the hype about?

>>31349288
Good enough action, amazing sights, powerful soft shooting bullet that isn't too expensive and the fucking aesthetic. Prettiest gun I own easily is a mas 56 with the 39 shortly behind. Idk why but it just looks so good

>>31349297
neat. ill have to pick one up some time.

>>31346206
.22lr would be my choise. cheap ammo and can be the start of multiple things. I've heard that 10/22 is guite moddable gun and also semi. Friend of minen has 2 stocks for the gun. One resembling AK and other looks like DMR. So he trains with 1 gun sniper and basic infantry skills. Note also: 22lr is CHEAP. Do not even consider bying SKS if you do not want be autist fuck. sure 7.62 is cheap but you really don't have the ability to actually train for multiple things with one gun.

When you shoot 22.lr to target that is 150m and 20cm diameter it is eguivalent as .308 shot at 450m distance (target diameter 60cm)

>AR
>Mosin
>SKS
Don't. Just don't. Save your mind and wallet.

>>31348774
.22LR rifle of course. I have Sako P54 target and mosin and 870 and Baikal 1 barrel shotgun.

Remington is used for hunting and SRA/Practical. Sako .22lr for sniper training and hunting small game. Mosin is quite fun gun and I'm going to buy TA-85 stock from Hämeenlinna's store. They sell used military stuff there.

Homma se 22lr. Ruger 10/22 on aika hyvä kuulemma.

>>31348054

Slav rifles dont care about ammo type. Feed the sks whatever you can afford

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Hey OP, i see theres a lot of non relevant discussion going on here. Hoping you haven't aubandoned the thread. I own a colt match target, a russian sks, and a yugo sks. I've also owned 2 chinese models. If you have any questions about any of the rifles,feel free to ask.

If you like slavshit and the feeling of a wooden stocked rifle, the AR will not appeal to you. It will feel like a plastic space gun. The sks, especially the yugos due to their heavy build, feel like a real man's rifle. The ar is definitely more capable, both in terms of range and accuracy, but I wouldn't dream of swinging my AR like a bat or smashing a window with it. The sks will do that all day long. It really comes down to personal preference. SKS's are rising in price and availability is going down, but the AR is more likely to get banned. Either one will serve you well

>>31349642

Forgot to mention a major advantage of the sks- barrier penetration. The x39 cartridge will chew through cinderblock walls and car doors without a problem. The 5.56 tends to fragment and doesn't do as well. Hit your target through cover with the sks

Calico liberty 3

>>31346308
Mosin nagant

>>31346453
I'VE GOT SPURS

THAT JINGLE JANGLE JINGLE

all these fucking morons who compare ak-47 bonus point for shit Romanian ones to ar-15s

do you know what rifles were in service when the ak-47 was? the Garand and the M14, but noone compares those two because that would be fucking retarded as the are built for different purposes and fill different roles, compare the ar-15 to an ak-74 which again is more comparable to the m16a2 in terms of in service, for best results get a real izhmash ak-74m and compare to m4a3 otherwise you arent really proving anything

OP here again, just woke up. Nice to see the thread taking off.

>>31348702
>>31348735
>>31348753
>>31348788
>>31348832
>>31348836
>>31348868
>>31348873
>>31348935
Thanks for debating this out. I think I'm gonna go with the SKS first. I view the AR almost like a gaming computer. Why drop $500 of sub-par parts when I can just educate myself further, save up like $800 and come back and do a better build right from the start? The argument that I would be buying a "basic bitch" rifle for $500 and then paying to upgrade it further makes sense to me and I'd rather just save up more money and "do it right" the first time.

>>31348856
I appreciate the sentiment.

>>31349305
My friend has a bunch of .22 rifles and I'm not really impressed. I wanted something with a bit more oomph to it.

>>31349642
>>31349694
My main issue is I don't know where to go to actually shop for the gun. I have the idea that russian/sino-soviet are a bit pricier/better than a straight chinese, but I'm not sure what to expect at a gun show and if I should just start looking online. Have you had any issues with slamfiring? Is it more common with specific models?

Thanks for all the input so far, everyone.

You can buy a $500 AR. There cheaper than AKs

>>31348214
I found some online, like $300 though. Sound reasonable?

>>31348702
Nailed it on the head there. I want something different. An old Slav military weapon that is clip loaded is pretty special snowflake.

>>31348810
What are the different major sks variants? What's the diff? Are they all generally parts interchangeable?

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>>31350811

Russians are the best. Chrome bores after 1950, beautiful stocks, dark blueing thats almost black, top quality machining. Expect 500 to 600 dollars

Yugos and chinese are tied.

Yugos are the most heavily built and feel invincible. Even the russians arent this sturdy. Extremely durable, but no chrome bores. The 59/66 also has problems with leakage from the gas valve, but the m59 doesnt suffer from this because it doesnt have a grenade cup.

The chinese have chrome bores but are very light and feel flimsy. I've sold all the chinese models I've bought. Sino soviet rifles are part chinese, part russian parts. Better quality than straight chinese but also more rare. Expect 400 bucks for yugo and chinese.

Slam firing only comes from an extremely dirty gun when dirt and oil jam the free floating firing pin. It wonts happen if you clean it when you first buy the rifle.

All rifles are similar in terms of accuracy and overall performance. Check armslist, local gun stores, and gun shows. Don't overpay by too much but if you find a russian, jump on it because they are hard to find. Chinese and yugos are everywhere.

>>31351880
I got mine for $299. Yeah perfectly reasonable.

>>31352169
What about Romanian SKS's?

>>31352366

I've never seen or held a romanian sks so I'm not sure.

The romanian m44 mosin that I own is mediocre in terms of the wood but machining is fine. Romanians are very hard to find, even more so than the russians so I wouldn't count on finding one unless you already know one for sale.

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>>31346206

you can get decent bolt-action 22LR's for under $200 all day. I got mine for $100. It's not a large caliber with a lot of stopping power, but it gets you shooting for cheap and keeps you shooting for cheap.

>>31346206
As said above. Save up to build an AR.

5.56 will be a lot easier to get your hands on than 7.62x39 if Hillary gets in power/shtf.

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I got the pic of my arsenal finally

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>build an AR
>build an AR

you faggots if OP doesnt have the money to buy or build an AR then they wont have the money to feed one either. Buy a nugget and learn to use and care for it, perfect starter gun.

>>31358450
I've been hearing on /k/ that the nugget surplus ammo is drying up, and that the guns themselves aren't dirt cheap like they used to be either.

>>31361563
When god emperor Trump takes office the sanctions against Russia will most likely be lifted and then we can have our glorious Russian surplus guns for cheap again, also the ammo yes. but for now it is more rare than not to find cases of surplus in my location so the other anons are correct.