If someone is shot on the battlefield, what should be the immediate

>>31211491
Have you never read anything on basic first aid? Why would you remove the bullet?

Apply pressure dumbass.

>>31211491
Secure area/cover fire, pull wounded into secure cover, apply pressure to slow bleeding, apply tourniquet to prevent more blood loss, if necessary inject morphine, call for evac, hold out, evacuate wounded personnel, continue engagement if necessary.

Seems pretty obvious.

>>31211497
This.

Removing foreign objects is risky in the field. Why do you think it is recommended if impaled to put on a tourniquet and let the doctors extract the foreign object.

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>>31211491
Battlebuddy or nearest soldier drags the wounded into cover, provides emergency medical aid, calls for medic.
Immediate first aid focuses on cABC:
catastrophic bleeding (stop it)
Airways (make sure they're open)
Breathing (is he?)
Circulation (smaller wounds, that over time can kill someone,)
From here, casevac arrives and evacuates the wounded to the rear. The unit continues performing its mission.

You want to push the bullet through the person's body to create a one way hole. Their blood acts as lubricant so a trained professional can do this relatively easily. Afterwards, you want to rinse the one way hole with rubbing alcohol and iodine and then plug the holes with something. Cotton balls work well but your earpro earplugs work too in emergency situations.

Once you do this you need to elevate the wound so that it is above the heart. This means that if they got shot in the thigh, you want to hand them upside down on a tree using some strong rope.

>>31211520
Hospital Corpsman here,
this is the right answer.
Ignore the other faggots.

How do you stop someone from going into shock?

>>31211527

don't let them visit clickbait pages promising that they will shock you

>>31211527
You apply a tourniquet around the patients neck so blood doesn't rush out of his head.

>>31211543
This
>>31211527
Its why is called SCBAs my dude,
You need to secure the circulation, breathing and airway.

>>31211491
Male nurse here, though I'm not ER I'm Neonatal... Baby nurse

All my med kits and go bags/pocket med kits have a unused tampon for plugging holes and easy to apply pressure. they do some magic from time to time in a pinch.

>>31211491

>remove the bullet

Fucking what and/or why.

He's not going to bleed any less while you're rooting around inside him.

>>31211527

Google reversible causes of shock. Without the right kit you won't be able to do shit most of the time. Even the tip of the spear modern medicine has a hard time dealing with trauma if it's bad enough, sometimes cunt's just die.

Source: medfaghere

>>31211576

You sick motherfucker.

>>31211589
The bullet caused the bleeding. If you remove the bullet, it stops causing bleeding. Simple shit retard.

>>31211520
That was classified information you moron. Enjoy the ATF shooting your dog now.

>>31211649
On this ATF shooting dogs thing - if I don't own a dog, will the ATF bring a dog to give me, and then subsequently shoot it?

>>31211700
Yeah, but they don't shoot it immediately they let you keep it for a few years first so that you get fully attached

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>>31211642

Inject bioform to seal the wound. If you're in Mjorinir, auto-injectors will take care of it.

>>31211491
You always remove the bullet, lest the patient dies of lead poisoning

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>>31211491
>remove the bullet

>>31211642
This.

Conversely, if you remove the original bullet and the bleeding continues, try inserting another bullet and then removing that one. Think of it like restarting your computer

>>31211576
My mom was neonatal, I respect you guys a ton.

>>31211491
DRABCS

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>>31211752
Is it weird I assume must of this board has military experience.
Even me a comms nerd chair force fag knows SABC

Every single "person" here is wrong, the first step is triage.

>>31211507
>>31211516

this

>>31211824
I heard it's actually pretty common that soldiers in shock try to do first aid on clearly dead comrades
it's brutal, but I suppose it's worth saying not do do CPR on two arms and a head, or trying to tourniquet a spare pair of legs

>>31211824
I was led to believe that triage is done by a medic and not the first soldier who stumbles on by, average rifleman joe or even the combat life saver cant assess the survivability of the fella so it's better to apply combat first aid rather than not, of course it's a different matter if the guy has his brains all over the place or something else bloody obvious. t. conscript

>>31211491
Actually, removing the bullet is almost never done even in a regular hospital with all the fancy equipment. It's actually more dangerous to go picking out all the fragments than it is to let it be most of the time. Other than that, and don't quote me since I'm not a medic, I think you're supposed to pack the wound with something.

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>>31211713
Those bastards

>>31211905
I was taught to stop catastrophic bleeding, check his breathing and if he's not, put him in the recovery position and carry on. But that's during an attack, so naturally if you have the time and capability you'll give the best treatment you can.

>>31211905
Triage is only performed if there are multiple casualties. It is the process of determining the order in which people should be given attention, based upon their survivability and the severity of their wounds. In an emergency situation, a first aider can do this, but in your local outpatients or ER, it is of course performed by a trained nurse. It's also the reason you sit several hours in the waiting room. Your broken finger is bad. But there's only so many doctors, and Steve is taking a heart attack, Mary is taking a stroke, and Jimmy's been stabbed in the chest 37 times.

Battlefield medics stop death. If shot, they stop the bleeding. Infection takes far longer to take place. Bleeding out can happen in seconds. Never remove the bullet.

>>31211925
Of course, but the first responder in a combat situation being another member of the squad, he doesn't do proper triage, he assesses the situation fast then gives first aid to whom he sees needs it the most or whom he can help without being killed himself, actual triage where they give those yellow/red/etc tags is done on the nearest aid station by a medic or higher.

check if they're conscious, if they are make them lay supine, otherwise put them in the recovery position

check for location of wound, if on the appendages apply pressure on the wound and a tourniquet. if on the abdomen, keep them stable, apply pressure, call for evac, you can't do anything more. if higher, apply pressure, call for evac, keep him stable and calm.

if on the neck, apply pressure and hope he doesn't die

if on the head, attempt to stop bleeding if you can, don't go attempting surgery or anything

regardless of where the wound is, NEVER remove the bullet/shrapnel/etc. if the object has made it's way into the body it probably is sharp and is capable of doing a lot more damage if you attempt to move it, so just keep the person as still as possible and wait for someone more skilled to arrive.

if you're a standard grunt you're not going to be able to do any more than this besides maybe applying some of that quickclot shit or some adrenaline if you have access to it.

>>31211962
>if they are make them lay supine
If their face is blown up, chances are they'd prefer to sit up and will probably have issues breathing when lying down.

>>31211962
oh almost forgot:

keep the wound above their heart, especially if it's something like a major wound to the leg. it won't stop bleeding but it'll alleviate it a bit.

>>31211969
yeah you're right, i was going off the assumption the guy was able to breathe. if someone is able to breathe you should put them supine to minimize the chance of further tissue damage (of course you have to watch the airway though). if he has any problems breathing he'll probably be best sitting up.

>>31211515
>GUYS A BULLET'S IN HIM, I'M GOING IN, PASS ME MY KBAR
>NOW ALSO PASS ME YOUR KBAR

>>31211637
What kind of medical training to non-medics get? Would the average soldier know how and when to make a tracheostomy or epinephrine or bicarbonate?
A lot of people are saying "airway circulation and breathing" but only know to check for them rather than manage them.

>>31211491

You tell him to stop being a pussy and walk it off. If he can man up and walk the equivalent of 1 lap he'll be fine. If not it's his fault for being a vagina.

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>>31211994
The average soldier is commonly not trained to actually treat injuries, beyond applying tourniquets, bandages, quick clot and similiar extremely simple treatment methods. So no tracheostomies, bicarbonates, fentonyl lollipops. They will not even carry these. Their job in the medical care of casualties is to stabilize them until a combat life saver or medic can take over the treatment and evacuate them as their primary purpose is to engage the enemy in combat and that is where they are needed most.

give them a quick death and return to the fight

>>31212008
Am I projecting or this thread full of finnposters? I'm kinda curious what kind of medical training US forces/peacekeepers/other 1st world soldiers liable to actually get shot receive.

Tourniquet, apply pressure and plug wounds if at all possible. If you have hemostatic agent use that. After bleed is controlled RELEASE TOURNIQUET.

Do not forget that last one, otherwise you are going to probably lose the limb.

>>31212027
Same shit he said. Stabilize the fucker until proper care can be provided by trained individuals.

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>>31212027
I'd expect it to be. What with the conscription and every single conscript receiving first aid training. Americans are just waking up, aren't they?

>I'm kinda curious what kind of medical training US forces/peacekeepers/other 1st world soldiers liable to actually get shot receive.
The Finnish system is based on the American one, so I wouldn't expect any massive differences.

>>31211491
First do the DR'S ABCD checklist:

>Danger - remove you / the patient from it
>Response - COWS: Can you hear me? Open your eyes. What is your name? Squeeze my hand.
>Send for help - call an ambulance / have someone call in a casevac
>Airways - clear them, put them in a recovery position (on their side, head tilted back, tongue / obstructions cleared
>Breathing - are they breathing?
>CPR - if they're not breathing, do CPR
>De-fibrillation - if their heart has stopped, use an automatic emergency defibrillator (AED).

If it's in a limb, apply a tourniquet at the base of the limb, apply gauze / quickclot / whatever fancy stuff has been given to you and wrap up the wound. Don't forget to write down the time at which the tourniquet was applied so that medics know whether a limb is worth saving.

If it's a wound in their abs or whatever, stop the bleeding like with a limb (minus the tourniquet) - aka stuff it with gauze and bandage it.

If it's hit a major artery, then unless you have one of the new magic congealing systems (like those expanding foam in a syringe things or that glue-like liquid), your best bet is to literally try and grab the artery with your hand and hold it closed.

If it's hit a lung, creating a sucking chest wound, get an occluding / watertight dressing or if you don't have one, some plastic (eg a plastic zip-lock bag), lay it flat over the wound and tape up 3 sides (assuming its a square / rectangle) with the bottom edge (as dictated by gravity) left untaped. That creates a one-way valve (if you've done a decent job) and limits the chances of them literally drowning in their own blood.

>>31212052
>CPR - if they're not breathing, put them in the recovery position and carry on. Chances are you breathing into their mouth and pressing their chest is not going to save them from being shot, of having their body filled with fragments or internal organs liquified by the blastwave. Leave it to the medical personnel and continue with your mission.
>De-fibrillation - if their heart has stopped, use an automatic emergency defibrillator (AED).
See above. You're not going to be carrying a de-fibrillator at a squad level and it's not going to do much to help someone who's suffering catastrophic internal injuries.

ok some good stuff in this thread...some idiocy as well.

here is how to treat a sucking chest wound without a medkit.

your buddy was shot in the chest, you can hear a sucking sound. There is blood.
>expose the wound
>apply preassure directly over the hole.
>using your other hand, go through your gear, or whatever else is around to find plastic wrapper or sheet of rubber, or ANYTHING that is waterproof/wont let air through
>once you have it put it over the wound
>if there is an exit wound it will be bigger, so keep that in mind.
>use the casualties clothing to tie the plastic/rubber in place, do your best to make it so no air can get in or out. Tape would be better, but if you dont have it, you must make due.
NOTE: they used to teach flutter valves where you leave one corner open, this does help prevent lung collapse, but if you can tape it, you cant do it.
>wrap the wound as much as you can and GTFO and get to a fucking hospital
>as you move keep an eye on the casualty.
>listen to his breathing, it will be all fucked up, and he will cough up blood, this is to be expected, you are listening for that sucking sound. If you hear it, readjust the pastic and bandage
>look at the casualty, both sides of his chest should be inflating
>LOOK at his "windpipe" if it is straight, GOOD. If it is crooked he is dying. Depending on wich way the windpipe is bending means he either has a leak in the plastic or his lung is collapsing due to being full of blood or air (the sack just outside of the lung is supposed to be a vaccum
>To fix it: expose the wound and jam your finger into it and ream the hole, there should be a burping sound (this is known as burping the wound). let the blood drain and reapply your plastic.
NOTE TO MEDICS/CLS: the wound burping is what was used before needle chest decompression and before chest seals were a thing. If you have a medkit USE NEEDLE CHEST DECOMPRESSION, burping the wound is for when you have NO OTHER OPTION.

>>31212083
AEDs are fucking everywhere now though. I hear some units are getting one per truck now and just about every gov building has a few.

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>>31212144
Perfect. I hope no /k/ommando ever has to treat my sucking chest wound, but if they must I hope they remember this post.

>>31212152
>I hear some units are getting one per truck now
That's still not immediate first aid though, unless the unit happens to be right next to their truck, which they probably won't be, unless the poor sod is unlucky enough to get shot when dismounting, or the truck simply hits and IED / is shot.

>>31211491
>immediate medical response
"are you okay?"

>>31212194
To be fair, if their heart has stopped and you don't have a defibrillator, it's not like there's much you can do other than perhaps stimulate the heart physically.

>>31212206
If their heart's stopped and they're not breathing as soon as you make it to them, chances are an AED wouldn't save them anyway. If he drops dead from his injury, he'd need some serious medical attention, that's really not an option in combat.

>>31211576
Stop perpetuating the "tampon in bullet hole" myth. Any bleeding a tampon can stop is not life threatening, and they tend to shred when sodden. Replace those with rolled gauze.

Remember that ballistic wounds are often irregular tracks. When you pack the gauze into the wound you need to really get it into the channels. Your patient will not like this.

>>31211962
You have the basics somewhat covered. With a conscious patient, let them position for comfort. Also, wounds to the chest are best treated by applying an occlusive dressing. If you don't have a chest seal around, you can use packaging from other medical supplies or food packaging. Cut/tear a piece that will cover the wound and an extra couple of inches in all directions, then tape it down on all sides to make as close to a gas tight seal as possible. Some people will insist on leaving one corner unsecured to vent any trapped air, but this is no longer the recommended technique.

>>31212027
You now know.

>>31212052
>>31212144
Good shit right here. You medical guys, or just determined to live. 68w here.

>>31211491
Absolute first thing?
Fire superiority

>>31212265
So what if the chest wound is all the way through? Just do it on both sides?

>>31212211
Touche
>>31212265
Ex-RAAF, so it's not as if I'd ever actually realistically get shot on a battlefield, but for whatever reason a lot of my basic training stuck really well.
>>31212314
Yep

>>31212314
Yes. You treat the first chest wound you find, then check for more. Don't be afraid to roll the patient to do so. >>31212318
Good stuff. People like you are invaluable during mass casualty events.

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>>31212302
This. All else in this thread is null and void.
Absolutely first of all is kill the enemy real dead, lest your Medic will be inured too. If this is not practical or possible you get the injured guy into cover only when the enemy is properly surpressed or you've got covering fire and/or smoke.
After the area is a little less of a killzone, or you've gotten into cover you start your TRAPS/CABCDE and take proper action from there.
Source:
>I'm a Combat-Medic/First Responder

>>31212265
to be fair to hin the tampin thing is not a myth...but it really shouldnt be his go-to either. The tampon thing is what you do when you dont have gauze...NOT part of your kit. I think its one of those things that was mentioned off handedly and taken as "you should do this."

besides if its between a semi-sterile tampon and a dirty napkin go for the tampon.

I got really into snake/bush medicine a few years ago. A lot of times a medic/EMT/Nurse/doctor will freeze up when they encounter a casualty without their bag, no fault of theirs, they were just trained to use tools and without them sometimes they fumble.
story:
>atta party
>gf drinks too much, falls, cuts open her wrist
>blood flowing, looks like red gatoraide because of vodka contrnt
>I examine, I can see the fucking artery
>use paper towel to wipe blood away
>use makeup tweezers to pull out glass resting on artery
>pack wound with paper towel and duck tape a hand towel over it.
>"lets go to the hospital"
>no im fine
>you need stitches
>no im fine.
>fuck it
bitch bled all over the place and I was sure she was gonna die....but didnt. I checked her wound every few min, eventually it clotted. The next day she said "you didnt really do anything, all youdid was clean it and put preassure on it."

>>31212671

Eh.. I personally wouldn't have removed anything and straight up told the idiot that she will die unless she gets to a hospital.

>>31212692
we were on the down slope so I wasnt tooooo concerned about her well being. I only removed the glass because I knew I could and any preassure on the wound with it there would have caused it to hit the artery

>>31211822
Shut up Nonner, nobody cares how many CACs you made today

>>31211809
Nobody asked

shot in the limb? tourniquet

torso? cover the holes with dressing and apply IV fluids.

>>31212671
Not downing field expedient tools, but seriously, stuffing tampons into wounds is a bad idea. They disintegrate and can complicate corrective surgery.

To restate what I said earlier, any bleeding that a tampon can control is not life threatening.

Now, what you did sounds about right. Frankly, paper towels or even clean socks/shirts make for good bleeding control in the absence of proper supplies. It is important to avoid things that will easily back up in the wound. Something like cotton balls would be terrible, while a strip of a sheet would do fine.

>>31213136
Ive never actually used a tampon, but they dont leave behind any residue in my wife,,,well that I saw or she comolained about anyway. In theory since they expand they would help clotting.
Most snake medicine involves using the worst possible stuff to save a life, because it is litterally the last resort and simply better than nothing.

Btw the bitch went on to claim the massive scar was from a suicide attempt to get money/sympathy from her family and paint me as the bad guy when we broke up.

>>31213136
also as an example of when you would use a tampon:
>out runnng with chick in the woods
>no medkit because its a normal suburban area
>chick falls, boom 2inch thick steel rod through her thigh
>she panics and pulls herself off the rod
>no cell, its getting dark
>your shirtless and all she has on her is her spare tampon.

I mean for you to use one it would have to be a pretty bad situation.

>>31214687
I get what you are saying, but be aware that the vagina is mucosal. It is self-cleaning for the must part. Puncture wounds are not as accommodating.
>>31214860
Sounds good.

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>>31211491
You give him mouth to mouth and press 3 times with both fists on the boo boo place.