Ukraine is trying to modernize its army and needs someone who

I use a bunch of shitty ex Soviet boats to mine the fuck out of the Bosporus from the Black Sea side. This neuters the Black Sea Fleet and means they have no reason to take Crimea. Russia won't mess with Turkey because NATO and Turkey won't mess with us because the US is backing Ukrainian separation from the Russian sphere of influence.

Their locally made tanks are good enough, all they really need is western electronics and help with parts that are difficult to manufacture.

>>31210935
Russia is ready to supply hundreds of T-90s, T-80Us, BMP-3s, BTR-82A, 2S1Ms and 2S19s for free.

They already have licensed Israeli weapons, have had for a few years now. No change needed.
Buy armor from Russia, the few old guys their army has left will have experience with Russian vehicles so no reason to switch now.

>>31210935
Their weapons are perfectly usable. I would focus entirely on training, from what I've seen of the Ukrainian civil war the government forces have barely been better than the rebels. They need to learn squad tactics, fire discipline, and basic combined arms before even thinking of upgrading their gear.

>>31210935
I'd disarm the army and hand myself in.

Дa здpaвcтвyeт Poccия

>>31211581

Some high ranking officer of the Ukrainian Navy did so, if I recall correctly he handed over the flagship.

Actually, that would be the kind of thing I did as well. EU government is a bunch of cucks.

>>31211796
The former commander of the Ukrainian navy is now deputy commander of the Black Sea Fleet, the flagship, Hetman Sahaidachnyy, was rumoured to of raised the Russian flag but didn't end up defecting.

>>31210935
I'd train them like fuck more than anything else

>>31210935
100% slavshit. No compromises

First I would send their officers to the US to get trained at one of the international war colleges.
I would also request trainers from the US/UK to train my line Soldiers
For arming my guys:
>MAC-10 would be the standard issue side arm (yes I said side arm as in pistol)
>Tavor for main rifle
>AR in 6.5 Grendel for SDM
>AR-10 for Snipers
>Equip every squad with a Javalin team
>ZSU as main IFV (I know its ADA, but those guns can be used ground to ground and we can cram a few extra guys in there)
>T-99
>Merkava as a support tank
>HIN-D for air assault ops
>AH-60 for CAS/anti-tank ops

Laugh all my way to the bank.

Why the fuck would you switch to 556 when you are fighting russia who has an infinite supply of slav calibers. why would you even suggest that op that is very insulting to /k/

the obvious solution is to equip all the ukraine with fitty cal bowolf and 45lc/.410 pistols

>>31210935
>upgrade locally made decent tanks with electronic packages
>make training good
>weed out corruption
>get part kits to make AK's ergonomical, eg better grips, safeties that don't need an assistant gunner to operate, charging handle on left side, give them rails and front grips
>bargain a cheap deal for F35's
>join NATO

>>31212028
30000 US trained Iraqis have fled from 800 ISIS fighters, leaving behind $2 billion worth of equipment. No matter how you train people, what hardware you give them, how much money you spend, they just won't fight for the country that doesn't exist.

>>31212058
>ukraine
>not a country

It's different.
US destroyed iraq twice. western cutlure is alien and foreign and if anything seen as the invading culture meanwhile isis is full muslim just like iraqi.

Ukraine is different, sure languages are similiar but russia is the invader and agressor who has occupied them forcefully for 70 years and genocided them as well for good measure and has now invaded again after trying to install a puppet.
Ukranians just like all other eastern europeans don't like russia.

>>31212058
Nah you dumb cunt
You're telling me there's no ukies fighting?

i'd continue with the current plan where several 100 NATO pers are in Ukraine training them

Considering how cheap it is to produce ammo and the fact that ukies don't even have working factories that produce ammo i would switch to other calibers.

>Where would you begin?
Increase salary from $300/mo to $1500/mo avg
>Would you replace the T-72s with Challengers?
Nope. Mostly i would repair old equipment and put some modern electronics on them but ukrainian t84 and t64 are also fine. Probably i would mass produce t64e and additionally some t84 bulats.
> Swap the AKs for M4s?
I would. Modern ar 15s that are built like a tank with good barrels. Get some .308 bullpus too for marksmans.
>Or would you look East and start buying QBZ-95s and Type-99s?
HAAHAHAHAHAH

I would mostly avoid buying much air fighters and CAS planes. Mostly transport planes like an70 with couple of modernized escort fighter planes. Some CAS jets but not too many. Mostly gunships and light helis.
Bunch of modern drones. Lots and lots of AA for all ranges. Maintain balance of precission and dakka artillery.

>>31210935
>ukraine

no such thing

>>31212132

Say that again when Ukraine joins NATO.

Sooner or later, Ukraine will regain control of the rest of its nation.

>>31212058
apples and oranges friendo.
The Iraqis were handed to ISIS by their commander. Also arabs in general are cowards, where slavs are not.

>>31211512

Can western electronics really be compatible with soviet tanks?

>>31210935

Military purge. Execute every general, every high officer.

>>31212172

The day that Ukraine joins NATO will be the day that Russia launches its nukes. It's their Cuba.

>>31210935
Doesnt even matter anymore. A lot of Ukrainians and Russians will have to die before Ukraine as a nation realizes that they are never entering EU or NATO.
Its what Russia has cooked up for them since Maidan. They took what they wanted and left them a rebellion that can be reignited any time the Russians want to.
It was never about who has a better army or who has better equipment, its about who holds whos balls.
From the start, Russia has had Ukraine by the balls and punished them hard for turning to the west and installing the western puppet president.
Crimea is only thing worth taking and its long gone, no matter what the media spins off.
Sanctions didnt do shit to russia, only the oil price did.
And the entire mess there, i see as a failed attempt from turning russia away and crippling them from fucking around in Syria in the early stages when we were to bomb the shit out of Assad just like all the sandnigger dictators.
This is a first in history that the plans went to shit and there will be consequences. All while europe is being flooded with battle ready sand nigger rapefugees with nobody to dare and stop them.
Tough times are ahead for the entire world, dont be distracted by the little things and the bias you were born with.
Think for your goddamn self just for once /k/. Dont be a bag of fuckmeat grunt (even if most of you are skinny faggots that shave their own assholes), it will get you in deep shit sooner or later and you will, like usual, blame the wrong people.

>>31210979
>How to make enemies out of everyone 101
>Mine the waters of another sovereign nation to cockblock russia
>Shut down commerce of a fucking strait
>HEADLINE: Ukranian Seamine kills 12 year old and father fishing

>>31212172
They need to get back or give up Crimea to join NATO, both not going to happen of course.

Replacing the russian weapons would be retarded because logistics.
I would try to make an elite fighting force with good equipment comprised of 100% ethnic ukrainians who are loyal to Kiev.
I would train and equip the Crimean Tatars, import some chechnyans and let them fight for an independant Crimean khanate. The Ukrainian army should focus on eastern Ukraine. Ukrainian gangsters would do the dirty work so that ethnic cleansing and funding terrorists isn't traced back to the ukrainian regime.

>>31210979
It will be an act of war, and even the entire western friendly MSM and NGOs will not be able to whitewash Ukraine and save it from imminent invasion.

>>31212419
>an elite fighting force with good equipment comprised of 100% ethnic ukrainians who are loyal to Kiev.

A guaranteed recipe for a new coup.

>>31211575
This. Most wounds UA casualties are self-inflicted.

>>31212419
"One khohol - the partisan, two khohols - the partisan unit, three khohols - the partisan unit with traitor" - old Russian saying.

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>>31210935

>>31212443
Why is that? Just wondering

>>31212405
I agree with you, with the exception the Syria part. IMO Putin started supporting Assad with troops to force some kind of US-Russia deal on Ukraine.

>>31212498
Because main force behind Kiev govt is russian speaking kievans. 100% ethnic ukrainians go to the nationalist militia who dont like govt or ditch the fight.

>>31210935
>Rifles
They already got their licensed versions of Tavors in 5.45x39. The 5.56x45 is versions are presumably used by special forces. However, they also got 7.62x39 Malyuk Sealed Kalashnikov Bullpups (Can be adapted to 5.45x39 or 5.56x45 as well, pictanny rail system and rear apreture sights) to replace their 7.62x39 Kalashnikov rifles as well. Thus they're set for the gradual replacement of kalashnikovs had they not been too damn poor and in a civil war.
I'd say they should modernize their tanks and make use of Polish PT-91/91M kits. Another is modernizing their BTR4s. They've done a well job replacing the Russiand equipment inside and switching over to Germany for a touch of Kruat Space Magic.
Weeding out of corruption and fixing their training is absolutely necessary. I'm sure having British advisors would help alot.
For the rest, see here:
>https://issuu.com/ukrainian_defense_review/docs/udr-01-2016.

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>>31210935
I'd supply them with cyanide pills.

>>31212540
Ok, i didn't know that.

>>31212186
>Also arabs in general are cowards, where slavs are not.

This is just pure stupidity. Has nothing to do with courage and everything to do with collective identity.

You have an isolated, illiterate farmer who needs to provide for his family of 15. The only place with secure pay is a "military" which says "run in circles with this gun in front of the Americans, and relax the other 99% of the time." Of course they would sign up, who wouldn't given their situation? And then they bait+switch you, ship you off 30 miles, which feels the same as 300 miles in a different country, to fight for people you don't know and have no relationship with. They have no sense of national identity, and for all the talk of "honor" they realize that it's stupid for them to risk their lives for a paycheck when death means the ruination of their family. This isolationism is due to a lack of infrastructure. They'll fight to the death to defend their village of 5sq mi, but put them 20 miles over and they will literally not give a fuck.

So let me ask you - would you fight to defend Guatamala for minimum wage, knowing your death would mean disaster for your family, all because you signed for a job that told you that you would be sitting on your ass every day? Most likely not.

>>31212310

yes, the T-72B3's that Russia is pumping out now uses a French thermal sight.

>>31212596
>calls me stupid
>promptly demonstrates he knows nothing about the Iraqi Army.

Jesus christ your post is so off I dont know where to begin....
First, Iraq had an infrastructure and its common for a guy to use ROADs and CARS to DRIVE 30miles to get to work in the city, from the suburbs or country.
Second: for Iraq the Army and police pay decently and are considered decent jobs
third:ISIS initial gains wete made becuse high ranking Iraqi officers were suporters and literally ordered their men to lay down arms and walk south along the road "to get on the waiting buses" that were going to take them on "leave." Instead ISIS was waiting for them.
Fourth: even when they are acting as a unit and fighting, they will onky do so so long as they have the upperhand or are on equal footing. As soon as rhe fight turns against them, they retreat to eventually regroup. ISIS does this as well.
Arabs in general are cowards.

source:
2 tours in Iraq working with the IA

google the shit I am talking about. Specifically the article "why arabs lose wars"

>>31212394
>Russia will destroy itself over a sliver of a third world country.

If Russia keeps pissing off countries including nuclear powers, they are going to split their nuclear forces and every year they wait is more ABM systems coming online further weakening their nuclear posture.

Protip: threatening to kill yourself is not the best way to play tough to the west. Nukes aren't a magic wand lol.

>>31210935
I join NATO and stand out among the others by actually spending that two percent.

Mind, I'm one of the three liberals on /k/ and have no military experience so I'm at a loss as to WHAT I'd spend it on, but that's what I'd do.

Look, I'm aware of how nonsensical this entire situation is.

>>31212503
But he did save Assad from getting bombed and wrecked like Qaddafi or Saddam.

The Ukraine army was just a bunch of unmotivated conscripts in the beginning of the ATO.

They had to rely on the "private" Oligarch funded armies like Azov who were quite effective.

>>31212831
He did, but was that his goal or just means to? If this was about securing Latakia base he would act quicker, just like he did in Crimea, but he didn't.

Find a way to get nuclear weapons. That's literally all Ukraine needs to be left alone, effective nuclear weapons and make everyone believe they're reckless enough to use them. Then test one of them on Serbia because they're a bunch of faggots and you need to show how reckless you are.

>>31212944
Because he had Ukraine to deal with. Russias ultimate goal in Syria is to build the goddamn pipeline and not allow Qatar to do it instead.
Turks are all of the sudden ok with that because the pipeline will go across Turkey too.
Meaning now we have to 'retake' Turkey to our side sometime in the future.

>>31212310
Why not? You just tell western contractors to reprogram them to be compatible with Soviet tech and give them data needed for it.

To be honest Ukraine was doing quite fine in the ATO until the separatists were near defeat and Russia came in.

>>31212967
The pipeline isn't an issue, Assad refused the deal with Qatar in 2009, before the war began.

>>31212967
>Meaning now we have to 'retake' Turkey to our side sometime in the future.
Does that mean dethroning Erdogan? Because I have no problem doing that in the future

>>31212765
>If Russia keeps pissing off countries including nuclear powers,
Which nuke power did they piss off recently that already didnt have nukes pointed back?

>they are going to split their nuclear forces
1500 warheads is plenty enough to fuck up everyone relevant for generations. If they ever need more they can just not renew START or better yet pull out of the INF treaty, and focus all ICBMs on CONUS. Not like its a very fair treaty anyway, the French arsenal is mainly IRBMs anyway as well as China's.

>every year they wait is more ABM systems coming online further weakening their nuclear posture.
And every year they replace their arsenal more and more with next gen missiles incorporating ABM countermeasures. MAD is preserved, everyone's happy.

>Protip: threatening to kill yourself is not the best way to play tough to the west. Nukes aren't a magic wand lol
It already worked lol. Pray tell why didnt the west rush in Ukraine with legit formations of their own after learning of the scale of Russian intervention? Everyone knows they arent ready for a full scale war with NATO anytime soon- fuvk they are only in the middle of wide scale reformation and rearmament that would finish roughly late 2020s and aside from a few early victories from much faster mobilization they would only get beaten as the war drags on...

>>31213008
Well to be fair, no separatist on Gods Earth ever started separating without a suggardaddy having his separatist tushy well oiled and protected.

>>31212961
US would come down hard on you if you do that. They actually bankrolled the temporary maintenance then disarmament or transfer to Russia of Soviet nukes (nunn lugar is what its called afaik). Btw the Soviet nukes on Ukrainian soil then were under command and control of Russian authorities so even then they cant do jack shit with them.

>>31213042
That means having to go in a war where its turks vs turks vs kurds in turkey, while Russians trough Syrians are selling each faction what ever they can buy.
NATO is forced to keep one of its most important members from blowing the fuck up, you get the regime faction, the anti-regime faction, kurdish faction, terrorist faction, and God knows what the russians will inject just to gloat and laugh as people die from a clusterfuck that was never supposed to happen.
Turks already hate the west. They hate everything in reality, but at one moment they will get too cocky like the time they shot down the russian jet and had series of terror attacks later and had to apologize even if they stated that there was nothing to apologize for.

>>31212961
Holy shit! Is Deki still alive? Was he LPR or DNR?

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>>31210935


>Would you replace the T-72s with Challengers?

On what budget? Are you a fucking retard?

>Swap the AKs for M4s?

"Would you waste money on swapping for equivalents for no reason."

>Or would you look East and start buying QBZ-95s and Type-99s?

No. Again, why?

>>31211524

>They already have licensed Israeli weapons, have had for a few years now. No change needed.

Only Omega SOF unit (only "real" elite CQB unit Ukraine has left after SBU Alfa a shit) uses the Tavor clones. Also for no reason.

Ukraine needs:
1. Good sniper rifles.
2. Good guided AT weapons.
3. Drones for artillery spotting.
4. Incoming artillery and counter-battery calculators.
5. Secure comms.
6. Good AA.
7. Some sort of Phalanx equivalent.
8. Repaired helicopters.

Most of all the problem is budget and corruption. As well as lack of training.

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Op is a stupid faggot that sucks cocks and doesn't know what war really is; but

Create false wartime paradigms:
-Emphasis that the Ukrainian army does not fire from civilian settlements but the separatists do.
-Emphasis the premise that the Ukrainian military uses arms fitted with western precision technology, whilst the separatists use crude, inaccurate and indiscriminate last century technology.
-Send out specialist teams to zones of conflict to record damage to infrastructure while the battles are ongoing, then broadcast the footage on all channels for an hour immediately after.
-Set bounties on recorded separatist telecoms audio which could be considered incriminating.
-Organize lynch mobs against captured separatist soldiers.
-Target all civilian separatist telecoms, justify this as war against extremist ideology, and target this infrastructure indiscriminately.
-Jam all separatist satellite feeds with your own news broadcasting.
-This one's important; create an international English speaking channel and emphasis that Ukrainians want peace, freedom and democracy and not Russian Fascism, correspondents should be contracted out to other popular western news agencies and should see daily appearances on news segments.
-Ban Russian news broadcasting and journalists, present this in a way that it supposedly is a step towards democracy.

As for weaponry:
-Shoot dead 1/2 of the top Ukrainian army brass live on television, replace the dead generals with weapons specialists and contractors from former eastern block nations that hate Russia.
???
Profit.

Also, make the penalty for army misconduct severe, and make an example of it on live television.

>>31214516
basically israel

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>>31210935
I have been studying their Military for a while I have come up with this:

Ukraine will sick with the Heavily upgraded T-64's and T-80's. They are just now bringing back their T-72s but they are little better than how they were when they were put in the bone yards.

They domestically produce their own M-4s and Tavors but in very limited numbers. They will stick with the AK-74, until they run out of ammo in their stockpiles. The last ammo factory was blown up in Luhansk.

They are heavily developing their own domestic short range ballistic missiles. Ukraine has a history of building rocket engines and they have the infrastructure. This is the right direction because their air force although very useful in the beginning of the conflict got shredded by Russian supplied AD. With balistic missiles, they will be able to sell them to other countries, can act as a deterrent to the Russians and strike rebel bases and pillboxes with out endangering their air force or arty to counter battery.

They are digging every available vehicle out of their massive bone yards. The Ukrainian army although devastated by the Summer of 2014 is regenerating rapidly. Although they did lose a lot of their best equipment and ammo.

First thing I'd do is round up Russian speakers, and send them to Russia. No violence is necessary, but the implicit dual loyalty of many people from the Ukraine is a problem.

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They have done a shit ton in only a couple years

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>>31212058
A wild Vatnik appears with tasty bait.

>>31212028
Way too expensive, their budget couldn't sustain this over a short period. If you wanted to undertake the decades' long process of converting all this equipment, even with fast tracking most of it through trials (keep in mind the logistical side), swapping out the small arms for what you're recommending would yield only a relatively small net benefit on the small unit level and introduce such a large supplies nightmare that I think you would be laughed out of the room with a proposal, even if you were army chief of staff. Everyone else would shout you down so hard that you'd be forced to concede (in this case rightly).

Focusing on improving training, supplies, organization, and communications will improve the capabilities of the military far more than anything else that I can think of, and certainly within budget constraints. Basic doesn't matter much; but unit schools and OCS should approach what we have in the West. Supplies and organization are thoroughly connected.The best way to unfuck them are to rip out corruption, keep infrastructure intact, maintain supply fleet, etc.

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>>31214699
The Ukrainian army has used ballistic missiles in the past and it was completely without any coordination with the army, same thing for their aviation and artillery.

Also, they will never run out of ammo, the ammo factory the other hand is still alive and well in Lugansk, there have been a few videos about its restoration.

>>31214734
Game over, the thing that sparked the entire conflict was that the eastern separatists got the feeling that the Ukrainians were gonna do something like similar to what you said to them.

>>31214737
Nigger, don't believe anything you read that out of any government public relations office, that's like Sun Tzu's first rule.

>>31214769
This nigger gets it but the most effective way of going about it is to launch a terror campaign on the populace so that if anyone is suspected of corruption, it's a trip to the gulag for them.
That's the only way you deal with corruption, ever.

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>>31214313

Just an observation

>Good sniper rifles.
They are still using Dragunov but a lot of their snipers are buying their own guns. A few guys even have Barrett's.

>Good guided AT weapons
They are fucked on this one. Although, they do have a domestically produced one that they have been work with Belarus on.

>Drones for artillery spotting.

They government is just now investing in it and are way behind the curve. The volunteer grass roots drone programs are doing crazy well. They don't have the range and often get downed from jamming but for recon and spotting for arty they are doing an absolute amazing job. /K/ needs to take note in the whole FPV sport and it's applications in warfare in SHTF.

>Incoming artillery and counter-battery calculators

The US is giving them some radars and the Ukrainians are bringing back some of theirs. They still have a fairly good radar industry.

>Secure comms.
They are fucked

>Good AA
They have some S-300s and a decent network or early warning radars.

> 8

>Repaired Helicopters

They are good when it comes to transport helicopters but from my observation 4 or 5 combat ready Mi-24s left. They have the air frames in the bone yard but they have been stripped and are useless.

Really my first priority would be creating a few battalions of infantry with a command structure that doesn't suck, and high motivation.

Ukraine has plenty of military equipment, what it lacks is motivated, competent personnel.

>>31213123
India

>>31214737
this bullshit. every time there been a fight is the guys with the cheap guns and the cheap gear that fight it. all the money in the world been shit, if you cannot put a guy on the corner with a gun.

>>31214806
>Restoration

I don't really buy that to much. I haven't seen the videos but It's probably just a PR stunt to explain how they they just magically get ammo that doesn't come from Russia.

They are also Running out of Tochka-Us. Lack of coordination was a huge problem. Hopefully they fixed that.

>Never Running out of ammo

You would be surprised how much ammo a Soviet era artillery unit can consume.

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>>31214825
Their front line volunteer units have high motivation . Their command structure is the worst part of their military.

>>31214857
English please?

>>31210935
Before we can even reconsider with what you have to arm your troops with or the quality of their training, I think the first priority is to ensure you could sustain even a "short" war. That would require an understanding of the economy, the will of the people to wage the war, and some other factors.

The question then, I ask, is who are the enemies of Ukraine in this scenario? Not that you're at war but who could be potential risks? I'd assume Russia of course, even if they are willing to sell Ukraine weapons.

Then I'd have to look into the economic and material resources available to the Ukraine. It's all well and good that you get you would want to get the best gear and weapons for your troops, but if you don't have the industry or infrastructure to support that equipment, you're going to find yourself in trouble.

So, what does the Ukraine produce?

>>>31214737
>Nigger, don't believe anything you read that out of any government public relations office, that's like Sun Tzu's first rule.

I've seen it though I go back home to ukraine every summer lol.

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>>31214878
No, it's real.
People in eastern Europe aren't as incompetent as westerners when it comes to concrete feats of engineering, ESPECIALLY when they're at war.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHD2CQs-y9w

>You would be surprised how much ammo a Soviet era artillery unit can consume.
The still won't run out of ammo, they've already planned to purchase other eastern European weapons stock.

>>31214918
Yeah, it still doesn't matter; appearance only makes the difference in that it's good morale (see, its even had an affect on you) but on the front lines its competency, skill and enthusiasm that matters, all of which the Ukrainian army lacks.

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Focus on those arms that can be manufactured locally. The cost effectiveness will outweigh any tactical consideration. Supplement with purchases of additional assets not available in Ukraine from neutral or Western sources. I don't know what sort of shape the Ukrainian Air Force is in, but EW and Wild Weasel equipment from Israel or the U.S. could help counter Russian SAM systems.

Also, get western advisors ASAP.

>>>31214918
>Yeah, it still doesn't matter; appearance only makes the difference in that it's good morale (see, its even had an affect on you) but on the front lines its competency, skill and enthusiasm that matters, all of which the Ukrainian army lacks.
Obviously I'm only saying their equipment got a lot better since maydan.

>>31214974
What a meme, the entire eastern region is a defecto no fly zone because the AA systems are impenetrable.

Also, they would do better with Hezbollah-tier short-ranged missiles, at least those would wouldn't be a fucking waste of money.

To fix the Ukrainian army you will have to understand Ukrainians in the first place, and the Ukrainians are no different to Russians, you'll only get them to work when they have a fucking barrel to their skull, just like in good old Stalin times.

>>31215039
Sick joke dude Russians are a fucking disgrace to slavs. Cлaвa нaцiї!

>>31215063
>disgrace to slavs

Fun fact.

"disgrace to slavs" and "slavs" mean the exact same thing.

>>31210935
I would treat them like compitent Iraqi soldiers. Ground up from basic. Their guns are fine, they just need more of them. Especially armor for the engagement they desire.

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>>31215063
Yeah right, unlike the Ukrainians, the Russians accept who they are, the Ukrainians for some reason want to fit in with the European crowd, the same crowd that sees Poles, Russians, Ukrainians and everyone else as subhuman scum.

Fucking posers.

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>>31215008
EW and Wild Weasel are a meme? But hurry up and tell the USN and Israeli AF.

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>>31215143
That should be 'Better hurry up...'.

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>>31210935
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqPooEb5KsE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Y7vwsfrq3M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=un0kEUytzFY

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>>31215143
>>31215161
Wew lad, you sure told me, too bad you weren't there to tell the dozen Ukrainian pilots that were shot down and killed via manpad and heavy machinegun fire.

>>31214699
>Ukraine has a history of building rocket engines

You mean Russian has a history of building rocket engines in Ukraine.

If you regard the rearmament as anything else other than money laundering, you're naive.

>>31215209
you forgot the one with the right sector bus

>>31214889

Yeah, their skinheads are indeed motivated.

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>>31215209
good times

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>>31214822

You are pretty much right in everything you said. There is also some domestically produced sniper rifle, but in shit numbers.

>The US is giving them some radars and the Ukrainians are bringing back some of theirs. They still have a fairly good radar industry.

Russia has already destroyed most of those, while Ukraine held the Donetsk airport.

>They have some S-300s and a decent network or early warning radars.

Too afraid to use them because they shot down a civilian jet over the black sea during training, by accident. This was way before the civilian jet shoot down by the Russians, before the war.

>They are good when it comes to transport helicopters but from my observation 4 or 5 combat ready Mi-24s left. They have the air frames in the bone yard but they have been stripped and are useless.

Yea, there isn't shit.

>>31215250

>You mean Russian has a history of building rocket engines in Ukraine.

Ukraine was part of the USSR just like Russia. Ukraine designed a lot of leading technologies, such as Shkval.

>>31215270

As are Russian ones.

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>>31215343

Russians designed technology. I should know since my grandfathers brother (Russian) is a member of the Ukrainian academy of Science.

Ukraine is a meme.

http://tarpley.net/metaphysical-doubts-concerning-the-existence-of-modern-ukraine-a-1918-creation-of-the-german-general-staff/

>>31215343
>Ukraine was part of the USSR just like Russia. Ukraine designed a lot of leading technologies, such as Shkval.

Ukraine was taken out of Russia, before then only fanatics were sectarian.

Also, your pic proves that neo-nationalists in general are fringe fanatics, Ukrainian nationalism is no different.

>>31215437

>Ukrainian nationalism is no different

What are you even talking about? Are you saying that being a Ukrainian nationalist is somehow strange, and being a Russian nationalist is not?

>Ukraine was taken out of Russia, before then only fanatics were sectarian.

What?

>>31215409

And my uncle works at nintendo, therefore Russia is a meme.

>>31215466
>What are you even talking about? Are you saying that being a Ukrainian nationalist is somehow strange, and being a Russian nationalist is not?
No, that's what you're saying, I'm just saying they're both retarded fanatics.

>What?
Fanatics are people who are determined that their side is infallible; the Russians believe that they are the saviors of mankind, and the Ukrainians believe that they are the vanguard of Democracy, but meanwhile in the real world, Poroshenko has been actively trading arms with Igor Bezler and making deals on who gets to run Donbass.

>>31213121
>>every year they wait is more ABM systems coming online further weakening their nuclear posture.
>And every year they replace their arsenal more and more with next gen missiles incorporating ABM countermeasures. MAD is preserved, everyone's happy.
Not enough next gen missiles I'm afraid, Russians cannot afford it. Meaning most of those 1500 warheads you mentioned become useless.

Russia is losing because they chose corruption and banking all of their economy on oil, instead of investing in high quality industry that would let them actually get waaaay more of those next gen stealth jet concepts, armata tanks, and those missiles you were talking about online.


This is the country you wanted ivan, that's what happens when your people pussy out and let oligarchs take over your lives

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>>31215712
>Not enough next gen missiles I'm afraid, Russians cannot afford it. Meaning most of those 1500 warheads you mentioned become useless.

That and China's already surveyed the entirety of Siberia and is ready to take it over.

They deserve everything they get desu.

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>>31214822
checkd but

>They are still using Dragunov but a lot of their snipers are buying their own guns. A few guys even have Barrett's.

For most purposes, the SVD is probably fine. An M107 has range over the SVD but generally isn't really more accurate. They're usually both about two minute rifles, give or take. Now, if they had snipers equipped with nice sleek .308 or .338 bolt guns with good optics, I'm sure the snipers would love it, but I'm coming from this >>31214769 being me.

They should use all of their old small arms (SVDs, AK74s...) and MANPADs until they're relatively beat to shit and low on stored ammunition and parts. Then they should look into replacements.

A lot of guys think that small arms are king of the battlefield. Sometimes they are, but that's usually when you're dealing with chicken shit counter-insurgency sweeps. When they're doing any hot action, artillery and air support are really at the fore followed by armor and mechanized columns. Infantry are somewhere after. I don't mean to diminish the role of grunts, but until their given stocks of weapons are something like 30%+ unserviceable, there's no need to worry about this shit because an AK74 gets the job done about as well as a tricked out M4A1.

>They are fucked

So, what, you're claiming that Russia's C3 infrastructure is so much further ahead that it's futile for them to invest? If anything, that's not an argument and they should probably go ahead regardless.

>>31215661
To this point, part of the overarching strategy should be pushing for a quick resolution in Donbass (i.e. within the next year, two tops). The army should be geared toward long term development that shouldn't stop or wind down too much even after some deescalation from Donbass.

How I imagine a proposal to work: concede about 1/3 of the territory they're demanding along with partial population transfer (this allows you namely to kick out the paste sniffers and miscreants, among other sorts collaborators with the current rebels). Demand payment in return, preferably in some international currency rather than rubles. Insist that these mark stable borders for some period equal to at least n (say, 10-15 years), where you can get your military and economy better situated. First things last, Ukraine needs industry and trade deals. Second thing, as aforementioned, eviscerate corruption as much as possible. Thirdly, do not neglect the military and enter some sort of Slavic-Baltic alliance. It doesn't need to be NATO, and NATO is probably worthless anyway (since Ukraine wouldn't get in for reasons); but the point of this alliance is to fight not only Russian aggression, but to any major 4th gen shitkickers (i.e. Russians in Estonia, Muslims chimping out, whatever).

The fall back if this proposal isn't accepted is to go full out trying to get the US to place its missile shield and forward NATO shit in the Ukraine. After all, it's probable that they won't stop with the Donbass if you lose that bit disgracefully...

Keep upgrading T-64s to Bulats and other late-models, formally adopt the T-84-120 Yatagan (if they're still hoping for NATO, if not go with the BM Oplot), continue upgrade package for the AK-74 (however drop the Mepro red dots for pretty much anything else; Rarkurs or Aimpoint would be a better choice). Standardize to one camouflage (Varan-ZSU preferably, MM-14 is alright but still an ACU variant).

Get rid of the fucking MTLB any way possible. Those things are fucking death traps. Adopt the BMPT-64 as a way of getting rid of older T-64 chassis.

The most important thing overall is getting this shit to the frontlines. The Ukrainian Military can adopt all the shit it wants, but as it stands a lot of the fighting is done by the National Guard units (a lot of which are former volunteer) so all the new stuff is hanging back. Get the new stuff out there, pull the National Guard back, refit the National Guard, then deploy them both on the frontlines. You can have all the fanciest equipment in the world sitting in your capital, but if your men on the frontlines still can't even get the same fucking uniforms then what's the point?

Employ chemical weapons. Since there are clearly no Russian troops present I don't have to adhere to rules for international warfare. I can fire tear gas at protesters so I might as well shoot chlorine at a bunch of people who have been rioting for years.

>>31216696
Say hello international sanctions and war crimes then. And say goodbye to what little chance Ukraine had of joining the EU or NATO.

A better tactic would be to just target key structures such as power plants and water treatment sites. Then focus on raiding their supply chain and claim it's to deny the rebels resources. You'll either starve the rebels into surrendering or cause enough unrest in the populace for moral to drop.

>>31216901
>Wanting to join EU

>>31211575
Doesn't matter still would be BTFO by Russian artillery guided by UAVs. They could do nothing about it.

>>31215466
ignore the bait, brother

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Scrap everything. The Soviet legacy gear is useless for defending the geography of Ukraine. That gear was designed for facing off against 20th Cen. NATO forces. The kind of forces that have successfully dominated that landscape are the Scythians, Huns, Cimmerians, Kipchaks, Tatars, etc. All of them were highly mobile, flexible, fast moving forces. Digging in is fucking stupid. Your just food for Russian arittelry. Eliminat the Ministry of Defense, replace it with a rhizomatic Ministry of Territorial Protection. Kind of a National Guard meets FEMA meets Border Guard. Decentralized, based on small units of indigenous anti-armor troops relying on fast vehicles paired with robust drone tech. Beef up that drone tech to have single-use zerg rush capability against armor and artillery. Ukraine has the engineers, everyone knows that. Sell the tank and replace them with AT missiles and Carl Gustavs. Take the best elements from Israeli and Swiss defense plans. Kill the bloated army, reinvent it as a locally controlled, seemingly chaotic force that is unpredictable to the enemy. Don't fight Russia at it's own game, change the rules. Fast attack anti-armor + tethered spotting drones + fast&mobile anti-armor infantry in flexible units + single-shot swarm drones. Goal is not to confront enemy head on, it's to harry their forces with hard hitting, random attacks. Classic defense-in-depth. Don't mass your forces, they'll get BTFOd by MRLSs.

>>31211523
Russia actually uses BMP-3? Somehow I only ever hear of them or see pictures of them when they are in foreign service.

>>31219913
>Russia actually uses BMP-3?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8PgoBdh1qRs

I need somebody to tell me why this is a stupid idea

>get SAMs
>get MLRS that can fire cluster mines
>mine the shit out of the border between Ukraine and Russia
>???????
>profit

>>31219870
You need to be competent to fight mobile forces though.

Like, the logistical burdens of combined arms warfare are intense.

Hence why the Iran-Iraq War and Ethiopia-Eritrea turned into trench warfare, despite both sides having tanks.

>>31219870
>rhizomatic

Nice taste my friend. Although it's a little memetastic even so.

>>31212448
Mostly due to similar gear/weapons as well. Many troops in this conflict seem to be using variants of the Gorka, as well as older Soviet era BDUs and camos. Everyone uses an AK variant. Everyone speaks a sort of slavic language. It isn't Germany invading Russia, and you, a poor slav in a regiment doomed to die, immediately being able to recognize that Hans over there isn't quite tovarish material. His guns, his uniform, his goddamn face. Everything is a grey area.

PLAN
Keep all existing gear for the Ukrainian army.
PART 2
Depose Merkel, put a nationalistic government such as the Kaiser system back into play in Germany. Have them oust the shitskins. EVERY ONE OF THEM. Then, have them stop being goddamn apologists who keep the shite legacy of WWII lingering and just fucking forget about it.
STEP 3
Erase Greece from the map.
STEP 4
Have the Ukrainians buy Challengers from the UK in batches unheard of. Integrate them with normal military forces. The consequence of this- Economic stability in Britain.
STEP 4 pt 2 THE SEQUEL
Train the Ukrainians in fast assault maneuvers with their new British MBT's. Have them consider a full frontal assault with Russia, no holds barred.
May the best man win.

Final segment- Bullshit in half the world is solved, with Germany not being a hole, the UK being less of a hole, and Ukraine and Russia solving their differences like men instead of playing slapfight like fucking pussies.

>>31215209
the guy at 0:40 is pretending to be dead

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>>31214969
Thanks for the video. I know they just got like 150 tons of ammo from the Baltic's. But from what I have read, they are running low on the heavy artillery and ATGMs

>>31215343
The US just sent them a new batch of counter battery radars. They lost a few of the LCMR and even had storage containers and frame captured. However, those are really for very short ranges and are really for mortar fire not multi gun arty and rocket attacks.

Push to join NATO then spit in the bears face as I up the budget to 2% and push east killing rebels.

Try to purge the the corrupt officials within the armed forces silently and making a case for military reform with other NATO countries.

Proceed to ask for outside volunteers from other NATO nations to bolster our forces.

>>31210935
I begin by killing the banksters, then the representatives of House Clinton, then the Banderists. Then I send Joe a taunting phone message about his son.

>>31215328
How the fuck does that happen. its like his insides were just liquified.

>>31212172
>ukraine

no such nation

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>>31210935

https://twitter.com/Souria4Syrians/status/772777333753311232

>>31224686
*le russian maymay

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I would replace all their armored vehicles with pic related

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Buy our Altay tank and Give us S-300 System.

Now!

>>31224867

nice monkey model K2