BOB Thread

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>>31202095
bamp

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>>31202171
how much does it weigh?

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>>31202095
>high flouride tooth paste
It's like you don't even care about your precious bodily fluids.

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>>31202209
Haven't ever weighed it. I would guess like 30 pounds or so

>>31202239
you use that to treat tooth rot if you get it. it's medicine, not something you use all day erry day.

>>31202095

You need some toilet paper in there.

>>31202303
>>babby wipes

>>31202240
do you have ammo hidden in places?

>>31202309

Baby wipes will run out too quickly. One roll of tp is light and easily compressed.

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>>31202356
Currently I keep 6 ar mags loaded in the bag and another in my gun
. And have a ammo can filled with 556 and 9mm ready to go if I need to bring more with me

>>31202381
sure. but that's just my 3 day max bag with only the immediately necessary survival stuff. that's why it focuses on water. I'd throw a bunch of potein bars in there just before I leave and that would be it. the Bob, guns, rig and camo clothes would go inside a regular big rucksack

>>31202418
I run like this:

lvl1: Rifle with 45rd mag
lvl2: +rig with 12 30rd mags
lvl3: +OP specified BOB
lvl4: +MC ACU
lvl0: lvls1 to 4 in a 110l ruck posing as a grey man

It kinda is heavy....

>>31202381
You've obviously never used baby wipes in the field. One normal sized pack of wipes with about 1/8 cup of rubbing alcohol if the end all be all for cleaning everything - your ass, your skin, your weapon before oiling. Good luck finding any type of non-pog squad in the field without a couple dudes packing baby wipes.

>>31202512

That's the point. baby wipes would be too valuable to use for TP. Might as well throw something else in there.

>>31202559
OP here, no. I hate a shitty ass which is why I have BWs in every of my bags for EDC too. A roll of P certainly isn't a bad idea though, I'll add that.

>>31202095
>platypus 2l gravity filter
>sawyer mini filter
>2 field stripped boxes of red beans n rice (compact, weighs nothing, good calorie density, cooks fast)
>MSR Int'l Whisperlite backpacking stove with fuel bottle of white gas
>3 bic lighters, blastmatch, and pill bottle of strike anywhere matches
>10 pre lit birthday candles
>titanium 2qt backpacking pot and lid (stove and fire stuff nest)
>2, 1L lexan Nalgene bottles
>50ft of duct tape wrapped around one bottle, 200yds 50lb test braided fishing line wrapped around other
>small assortment of fish hooks and split shot in a pill bottle
>Ruger Mk3 pac lite and 3 mags, 100rds, in homemade kydex holster
>petzl tactikka headlamp
>ultralight OD green rainfly/tarp (I think 70d ripstop nylon)
Total weight with both water bottles full is 24lbs.

>tampons
If you aren't a woman, then you are retarded and don't need tampons.

>>31202580

Makes good tinder too.

>>31202588
Found the never served/newfag.

>>31202588
>>31202594
two of my 3 escape routs would involve swimming in a river which is why I mentioned making a fire earlier.

>>31202599
No seriously, compared to actual first aid shit like crinkle gauze tampons are pretty shit for gsw's.

They're better than nothing and don't take up much space (good for an altoids tin aid kit) but aren't any lighter than a comparable amount of gauze so if you've got a backpack or LBE carry the fucking gauze. Especially if you can afford hemostatic gauze.

>>31202615
I do have an IFAK with Celox and all that shit but it's to be used now. in a SHTF world, what good is that stuff when I have nobody to use it on me? and who would patch me up after?

>>31202632
Same thing can be said of tampons. There isn't really anything you can do for self aid that's going to permanently fix a gsw, regardless of what you carry.

>>31202651
duuuude! The tampons are tinder! they come hermetically sealed and will stay dry.

>>31202669
Cotton doesn't burn worth a shit tho. Just kinda smolders and likes to go out.

>>31202171
Get a better Leatherman tool, a supertool, Charge Ti, or Surge. When you get too cold or have an adrenaline dump, or whe wearing heavy gloves, you lose dexterity in your extremities, the bigger tool doesnt add much weight but will be about a billon times easier to handle

That clp can will eventually leak or explode, buy remwipes if you feel you have to have lube.

Replace those heavy as fuck bottles of water with an empty bladder and filter w/ purification tabs. if you have to carry water, get a few of the survival waters in the pouches. expect them to leak at some point.

Take the card board out of that duct tape and flatten the roll.

Put your clothes in a dry bag, a quality one, like sea to summit.

lose the pot, add a canteen, aluminum or stainless, prefferably stainless so you can boil in it.

Lose all that water sucking food and add some MREs. Entrees ONLY, and some energy bars and power drink mixes.

get a snowpeak titanium spork

lose all the extra ammo that isnt in a magazine.

replace all batteries with lithium ones, the lithiums will last longer and wont corrode and leak shit everywhere

>>31202460
>110 litre ruck

>grey man

thats not how grey man fucking works, anon

>>31202845
>aluminum or stainless, prefferably stainless so you can boil in it.

is there anything wrong with cooking in Aluminium? We've been using Al army mess kits fr decades.

>>31202861
yes it is. here you will often see groups of hipster backpackers with backpacks larger than themselves, clad in the latest Jack Foreskin and Patagonia shit pretending they are ascending K2.

>>31202876

And I'm sure each one of those idiots stick out like ass pimples on a hot chick.

>>31202095
The tampons are used for wounds? Or for that time of the month?

>>31202864
no, except it has a lower melting point and if you drop it in hot coals or forget about it on hot coals for to long it will burn thru or melt or warp

>>31202892
stuck out of what?

>>31202898
I soak them in alcohol and jam them up my ass for that all day blackout drunk feeling

>>31202910
LMAO. Good answer

>>31202898
tinder

>>31202899
ok, thx. I was already getting worried along the lines of

>chinese "stainless steel"

>>31202916
Thanks man, it wasn't a lie. That's how I stay drunk at work

>>31202876
oh, so you're going to bug out with your 40lbs 110L pack in your gucci deck shoes and skinny jeans? Because that sounds very not grey man, and stupid. But maybe you plan on wearing 511 pants and solomans, and milsurp m61 field jacket and Oakleys.

which also, is NOT FUCKIG GREY MAN

either way you stick out like a sore thumb because yiu have a ridiculously huge pack.

and btw, everyone knows those hipsters have tons of disposable income to pack tose bags full of shit they'll use once and forget about, so that seems like a prime target.

Not to mention a 110L bag is closer to INCH territory and not a BOB.

but Im guessing you have to make up for your lack of skills by buying every manner of plastic junk at REI and rucking it on your back

>>31202918
nah, Aluminum is fine IF you konw how to take care of it and understand that it isnt going to last forever. especially if abused. But it cant be beat for budget and is only bested by Titanium for weight.

If its in a true BOB that doesnt double as a camping or hiking equipment and you dont expect to use it often then Aluminum is goat.

hell, even thin steel will eventually wear through or warp if you burn in hot enough in the same place often enough.

sometimes the cheap chinese stainless stuff will crack, thats my only complaint about that.

>>31202969
>oh, so you're going to bug out with your 40lbs 110L pack
Make that 30kg with 4l of water.

>in your gucci deck shoes and skinny jeans?
No, shoes/clothes will depend on season.

>Because that sounds very not grey man, and stupid.

I agree which is why I ain't doing it.

>But maybe you plan on wearing 511 pants and solomans,

Wouldn't matter, Europoors wouldn't really know tactical brands. Even many shooters who have ARs and other US stuff aren't aware of 5.11.

>and milsurp m61 field jacket and Oakleys.

That would paint me as an ANTIFA Punk at best.

>which also, is NOT FUCKIG GREY MAN

Agreed.

>either way you stick out like a sore thumb because yiu have a ridiculously huge pack.

It's not that huge. Regular size. You see backpackers, student's soldiers etc. all the time with this size of back traveling. I know, I did it all through uni.

>and btw, everyone knows those hipsters have tons of disposable income to pack tose bags full of shit they'll use once and forget about, so that seems like a prime target.

I said I'd carry a bag like that but the brands I'd wear would not allow you conclude that I'm a rich hipster.

>Not to mention a 110L bag is closer to INCH territory and not a BOB.

The 110l is a way to carry all I want with me out of my place and the city to my parent's farm on the countryside. It's not really a BOB as the BO is INSIDE. Pls read: >>31202460

>but Im guessing you have to make up for your lack of skills by buying every manner of plastic junk at REI and rucking it on your back

I don't have that much junk really, read the thread pls before you call me names. Thx.

>>31203020
>sometimes the cheap chinese stainless stuff will crack, thats my only complaint about that.

my point was that it's full of lead and other poisonous heavy metals....

thx anyhow. I don't plan on boiling water in my Al bottle regularly but I certainly want the option to do it in case the sawyer breaks and the poolshock and WPTs run out...

>>31203050
>I don't have that much junk really, read the thread pls before you call me names. Thx.

I didnt call you names, I said you're compensating for your lack of wilderness/outdoors skills by loading up a big bag worth of shit as a BOB. Im not trying to be insulting phamalam, Im trying to say you need to focus on experience and learning and ditch all that shit thats going to slow you down from getting to a safe spot until the heat dies down.

1) thats not what a BOB is intended for

2) Im 6'2 and 275 lbs and that bag would look big on me. I have a 50 Litre pack thats looks big on me, so unless you're bigger than me, then it is not going to look normal.

FURTHER, ANY visible pack is going to get noticed, its just the level of notice goes from "student with a backpack" to "thru hiker with gear"

>>31203207
I think whether or not a backpack makes you noticeable is very area specific.

For example, I live on the semi rural fringe of a midwestern US city and EVERYBODY wears a backpack everywhere, because it takes an hour+ to get anywhere. Seeing someone without a backpack is very out of the ordinary, and sackpacks/bookbags/milsurp rucks/full blown 60L+ backpacking packs are all about equally represented.

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>>31203207
>I said you're compensating for your lack of wilderness/outdoors skills by loading up a big bag worth of shit as a BOB.

Pls point out the things that you think are shit I compensate with and I will reconsider them. Thanks.

http://www.steinadler.com/en/shop/product/1481R100/1677/essl-trekking-backpack-100

This is the bag. It's out of the line of bags that basically 50% of men here buy as they serve the military to carry their dirty shit home.

>>31203287
>Pls point out the things that you think are shit I compensate with and I will reconsider them. Thanks.

>45 round magazine
>12 loaded mags

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>>31203318
That's it? How does that play into wilderness/outdoors skills?

>>31203318

This is a good point. 405 rounds of ammo seems a bit excessive.

You could easily cut that number in half or even to a third.

>>31203351

It's a shitload of weight, relative to usefulness, and that implies poor decision making for general outdoorsmanship. You know that movie Wild with Rese Witherspoon? Remember the part where the guys on the PCT look at all the bullshit she's got and tell her to dump half of it? Inexperienced hikers fuck up weight management and that serves to illustrate their inexperience.

>>31202418
Looks bretty good to me anon.

I see no reason why some people stockpile thousands of rounds. It's as if these people think they're going to be some type of war lord in SHTF. In reality you're probably going to get killed really fucking fast once someone finds out how much shit you have.

>>31203373
well let me explain in more detail to avoid misunderstandings:

>lvl1: Rifle with 45rd mag
This is for home defense and smaller incidents, engagement duration no more than a minute or two.

>lvl2: +rig with 12 30rd mags
The next level. Now it's not just one guy breaking in but an actual terrorist attack by 2 to 4 guys, I'm basically defending the block. ROF is king. Engagement duration <20mins.

>lvl3: +OP specified BOB
Lvls 1+2+3 allow me to fight and stay alive for 3 days to a week. Should be enough to let me get home even on foot crossing streams and woods (which i've tested before).

>lvl4: +MC ACU
Nice to have.

>lvl0: lvls1 to 4 in a 110l ruck posing as a grey man
I leave home as a grey man, change into the ACU, put on lvl1+2+3 and stash my grey man clothes and big pack somewhere.

>This is a good point. 405 rounds of ammo seems a bit excessive. You could easily cut that number in half or even to a third.

True. But i can ditch ammo at any point or just leave it at home. I don't see the problem here.

>You know that movie Wild with Rese Witherspoon?

No but 400rds is nothing. I can shoot that in a few minutes and we are talking about war and SHTF here. 400 is the max my chest rig would accomodate. If I don't need that firepower, I'm not leaving home and all my other shit in the first place anyway....

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>>31203469
>It's as if these people think they're going to be some type of war lord in SHTF


That remark tells us more about you than the ammo stockpilers. No Prepper I've seen wants the confrontation - we are just aware that it will happen because it did in the past.

>>31203548
You think you are ever actually going to get the chance to use 5,000 rounds? What type of scenario are you planning for? The thing about you guys is you contradict yourselves constantly and have a level of cognitive dissonance so strong it's impossible to ever argue with you. Do you think you are going to actually survive so many gun fights that you are justified in owning so much ammo? Or do you think you're going to be some kind of messiah for the raggedy ol' crew, arming your entire neighborhood like it's a fucking movie? Which one is it?

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>>31203608
>WOLVERINES!!!

>>31202845
>Replace those heavy as fuck bottles of water with an empty bladder and filter w/ purification tabs. if you have to carry water, get a few of the survival waters in the pouches. expect them to leak at some point.

>replace your water with zero water or an unreliable storage method

>get a snowpeak titanium spork
>nah

>>31203608
>You think you are ever actually going to get the chance to use 5,000 rounds? What type of scenario are you planning for? The thing about you guys is you contradict yourselves constantly and have a level of cognitive dissonance so strong it's impossible to ever argue with you. Do you think you are going to actually survive so many gun fights that you are justified in owning so much ammo? Or do you think you're going to be some kind of messiah for the raggedy ol' crew, arming your entire neighborhood like it's a fucking movie? Which one is it?

I'm going to my parent's farm where I'll have family (parent's, uncle's family, 2 brothers).

>>31203608
What about bartering? I always liked the idea of stocking small but necessary survival shit that you could barter. If you had a couple hundred bic lighters, a bunch of common ammo like 9mm or 12ga., fuck, what about hygiene shit like tampons, toilet paper, etc., you'd be effectively rich if shtf.

>>31203608
I've already lived through the AWB, Rita, Katrina, the Waldo canyon fire, the happening, various riots etc.

Nothing wrong with making sure you can pursue your hobbies without depending on Walmart and nothing wrong with being prepared for tough times

>>31203711
So you have your entire family armed up and an arsenal of weapons & more ammo than you could dream of. What now? Like I said, do you really expect to get in to that many gun fights that you would need to expend thousands of rounds? If so, maybe reconsider your plan.

>>31203744
It's a fine idea but then you run into the same problem. You better have a damn good place to hide your shit and not become known as "the trader guy" because then people are just going to either kill you for your shit or torture you until you tell them where you're hiding it.

>>31202095
You should add a big ass tarp and a shit ton of paracord. Also some food. I know it's a fighting BOB but you're not as good at fighting when you're cold, wet, and hungry

>>31203779
I think I could defend it. It's not like I'm going to be surviving on my own with no one to watch my back, and I'm not in a big city where everyone will turn in to some kind of bandit. I'm in a small town, and I have at least 4 people who I would be living with. We would keep watches at night and such, I think we could keep it safe.

Anyone who plans to survive alone in shtf is a retard. Sure, it can be done, but if you piss people off enough they'll find you while you sleep.

>>31202428
>'focusing on water' for 3 day pack
>has less than a days worth of water
>yet has a giant can of CLP
>has enough tampons for a complete menstrual cycle

>>31202845
This could be some of the worst advice I have ever seen in one of these threads

>>31202275
Nigga fluoride doesn't treat rotting teeth. You need pliers and antibiotics

>>31202095
Cept that isn't true about mechanix gloves tearing super easy. Now I have a set of deerskin when I'm hauling a ton of square bales (inb4 someone says use your hands... nigga just proved they never touched a hay bale), but for the occasional bale to throw to the animals or for small moving jobs (50bales and under) the mechanix have been holding up just fine.

They also make deerskin glove lined for light farm use. They aren't like gloves you can pick up at the feedlot but theyre close and theyre a little cheaper too.

>>31203779
>So you have your entire family armed up and an arsenal of weapons & more ammo than you could dream of.

Stop. Don't use nogunners rhetoric. My dad has a bolt gun, his brother too, my brothers have autoloaders like me. That's hardly "more guns than you could dream of".

>What now? Like I said, do you really expect to get in to that many gun fights that you would need to expend thousands of rounds?

No, but if I'm leaving home chances will be that I will have to fight. That's why I'm leaving in the first place. Depending on circumstances, I may even be going to help my brother (or the may need to come to bail out me) first.

>If so, maybe reconsider your plan.

Always. And thx for your input!

>>31203890
>"more guns than you could dream of"

Reading comprehension, faggot. I said more ammo than you could dream of.

>No, but if I'm leaving home chances will be that I will have to figh

You plan on needing thousands of rounds to get from where you are to where you're going? If so, you're doing it wrong. That's the whole point I'm trying to make. Stockpiling that much ammo is just a waste of money.

>>31203796
>You should add a big ass tarp and a shit ton of paracord. Also some food. I know it's a fighting BOB but you're not as good at fighting when you're cold, wet, and hungry

There is a poncho in there and I should be leaving home in a gore tex jacket. and lvl4 has ECWCS gore tex rain gear included.

>>31203471

You're not going to survive 400 rounds worth of engagement.

>>31203916
Ammo will be a good currency, heavy but precious.

>>31203934
Again I have the same response. How do you plan on trading this shit reliably without getting yourself killed? Why would anyone want to barter with you when they could just follow you to your stash, murder you and take your shit?

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>>31203855
>has less than a days worth of water
>yet has a giant can of CLP
>has enough tampons for a complete menstrual cycle

what? 3l Camelbak + 1.5l bottle is what I take out of the door. That's the first day. The 2nd day I'll organize as I go along.

>>31203878
yes it does, pic related. I've treated begginning toothache several times with it.

>>31203779
>you should only ever posses the exact amount of something that you will need for an event that you don't control

I'll keep that in mind after I develop the power or precognition

>>31203884
>Cept that isn't true about mechanix gloves tearing super easy. Now I have a set of deerskin when I'm hauling a ton of square bales (inb4 someone says use your hands... nigga just proved they never touched a hay bale), but for the occasional bale to throw to the animals or for small moving jobs (50bales and under) the mechanix have been holding up just fine.

fine. I don't like that they will burn and melt on your skin though.

>They also make deerskin glove lined for light farm use. They aren't like gloves you can pick up at the feedlot but theyre close and theyre a little cheaper too.

yeah, Kevlar/Dyneema is great too. I don't mind that it doesn't look tacticool - in fact, I like that.

>>31203954
Well I guess I should just stockpile thousands of Advil because I never know how many headaches I'll get in my life.

You're fucking retarded.

>>31203977
Probably woudlnt do that, im pretty sure advil has an expiration date

>>31203977
Advil prices are pretty static. Ammo prices are not, and they never trend downwards.

I sit on a decent stockpile of ammo so I don't have to wait for panic buyers to calm down if I want to go to the range any time after mahmoot shoots up a gay club.

>>31204047
This is a decent argument, and I feel I'm in the same vein. However I only keep about a thousand rounds of .223 and 9mm for target shooting, and that's just because I order in bulk to save money. My SHTF stockpile is about 500 each 5.56 and 9mm, and I think I have about 200 of 12 gauge. Pretty sure I would die before I ever got to shoot all that because I'm not an overoptimistic faggot and I don't have infinite income to blow on being a dumb prepper.

>>31203916
>Reading comprehension, faggot. I said more ammo than you could dream of.

Doesn't matter, you can never have enough ammo. If you think that 405 rds of ammo is enough to defend a homestead for any period of time I don't know what to tell you. Look at Syria vids and count rds.

>You plan on needing thousands of rounds to get from where you are to where you're going?

Pls don't deliberately overexagerate what I'm doing like a leftturd no gunner. 405 isn't thousands. Now I do have 1k rds stashed with my father but that still isn't thousands.

>>31204077
>I don't have infinite income to blow on being a dumb prepper.

Neither do I, OP. But I don't smoke, drink, whore or buy the latest shit and instead spend my money on ammo which only goes to waste if you consider shooting a waste.

>>31203977
You can buy a 500ct bottle of generic advil for $9 or a 10ct bottle at a gas station for 2.50.

Why would you not buy the 500 and not have to worry about it until it expires. Especially if you have a family or friends. As for ammunition there is literally no downside to buying cheap and stacking deep because it's subject to fluctuation or restriction. There are times within living memory where I could find ammo just to go shoot on the weekends and youre acting like it's impossible.

Your short sightedness is what's retarded.

>>31204087
well, I will consider it as soon as I find a wide mouth bottle of good size that can also serve to heat food etc.

>>31204108
I'm not talking about people that buy ammo to shoot it. I'm talking about people that hold on to upwards of 3,000 rounds because they think they need it for SHTF.

>>31204112
Ammo shortage is a myth anon, perpetrated by panic buyers who buy up all the local WoolMurt ammo and sell it online. Restriction is also a myth perpetrated by the same people in order to increase their profit.

>>31204086
You're taking my arguments out of context then. Talking about 2 different kinds of people.

>>31204217
Gimme summa dat newly imported 7n6 if restrictions are a myth

>>31204200

Well, had I known the situation would be as it is this time last year, I would have bought 5k 223 right there. 9mm is twice the price it was last year. Had I bought 10k 9mm at 180€ and were to sell it at 300€, I'd still be cheaper than the local stores selling at 380€ and more. I'm shooting and holding it.

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>>31204177
>wine goon bag
this?

>>31204264
>9mm is twice the price it was last year.
Umm, no it's not? It's been hovering around $0.20 per round for decent target ammo for all of my recent memory, at least the last 5 years. Where are you getting your ammo from?

>>31204259
right. It's just luck I can buy 223 unchecked and stash as much of it as I want - and I'm doing exactly that!

>>31204264
>i didn't see the euro symbol

Heh, nevermind. Get cucked eurofag

>>31204291
>Where are you getting your ammo from?

I'm Europoor. S&B plinking ammo is hovering around 370-400 depending on where you are per 1000rds.

>>31204200
And you are still being foolish by acting like it cant happen or that shtf is a single scenario where there is a sudden onset of a sudden collapse instead of a slow descent


>>31204217
Which created a shortage.
And now prices have increased due to the massive increase in sales of firearms over the last decade.

>>31204305
>Get cucked eurofag
>he would curse a brother and feels kinship with those who seek to disarm and disown him just because they have the same passport....

;_;

Yall niggas need to get /out/ more.

>carrying a whetstone in a 3 day pack
>no sleeping pads
>aluminum shit
>barely any fucking food

>>31204338
>carrying a whetstone in a 3 day pack

20 fucking grams of artifical sintered carbide shit will not kill me

>no sleeping pads

ok

>aluminum shit

is this really such a big deal? what's bad about it?

>barely any fucking food
ok

>>31204325
There is no shortage. Again, if you can't find ammo to buy, you are looking in the wrong places. Sure the price of decent ammo has increased but if you are looking for a large amount of target ammo it can still be had relatively cheap and in large quantities. Stop making shit up.

>>31204414
>Stop making shit up.
That's more you than us. Ammo has become expensive and the trend has always been up, never down. 2008, when I got my first gun 1k of 9mm was still 130€. I have the receipt right here.

>>31204414
>There is no shortage
But there was. Not that it wasn't being produced, but it was being bought out immediately or sold at inflated prices, some areas worse than others.

Wanna dig up old copies of shotgun news with 7n6 cans and obscenely cheap 7.62Tok? Wanna Google pictures of empty shelves spotted with box's of.357 sig, .32acp and 16gauge?

Just because shit has settled down doesnt mean it never happened

>>31202095
I would trade the tealights for regular camping candles. They last longer.

>>31204495
>Wally World is the only place one can possibly obtain ammo from

Seriously you're verging on retarded now

>>31204499
>This two seems viable


Yeah, Lilly is my prepperfu. But I don't like the bottles. If I can't get my fist in there, sucks. I refused to get a Camelpak until they released the new wide mouthed Antidote baks that you can get inside to clean.

>>31204553
why? it's a quality swiss made bottle btw.

>>31204442
you gone brosef?

>>31204516
Nah, you're just looking to drag out an argument by any means necessary. Glad you lived in some alternate reality Montana where gas is leaded 8mm Mauser is sold by the pallet and you somehow have an in'N'out.

op bump

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>>31204742
OP's preSHTF EDC shit

>>31204675
>implying
Whoa there anon, you'd better head out to WalMart before you shitpost so much, wouldn't want to miss out on the ammo!

>shooting 8mm Mauser
Well there's your problem.

>>31204888
>Well there's your problem.
are you an ammo racist?

>>31204888
You reaching that hard or just not following along with the narrative of common calibers being hard to find when all the retailers we're getting hit?

>>31204973
Stop buying from retailers dipshit, or did you not get the memo that you're wasting money and supporting the Chinese economy?

>>31204414
>mo it can still be had relatively cheap and in large quantities. Stop making shit up.

Except in places like California, where the bill was just signed that requires ammo sellers to meet the same standards as FFLs. The same bill also requires a background check for purchasers, prohibits personal importation from out of state, and limits buyers to 50 rounds per month.

Restrictions aren't mythological, anon. At least 8 million gun owners are all too aware of that fact.

>>31205141
>and limits buyers to 50 rounds per month
This can't be real. Even me eurpoor ass can buy as much ammo as I want and have money for.

>>31204177
>only plastic, not glass

False

>>31205141
>living in commiefornia

Why haven't you escaped yet, anon? No excuses.

>>31205161
Google California Senate Bill 1235.

Although I mis-spoke about personal importation from out of state. You can bring in up to 50 rounds from out of state.

>>31205221
Because I'm almost 60 years old and I own my home. Too damn old to run away. Eventually I'll wind up with no place left to run to, broke and tired from all the running.

You should look at the ramifications of posting shit like you just did. If all of the CA gun owners moved, the other states would have to make room for between 8 and 10 million people. And you guys have made it clear that you don't want us.

Then, there's the fact that if we give up California, we're also giving up the other states covered by the Ninth Circuit. Hawaii's already a lost cause, but what about Alaska, Nevada, Arizona, and Montana? Oregon and Washington are slipping toward the edge as we speak.

You go ahead and run away if you want. I'm too American to spend the rest of my life as a refugee. Inb4 living under Communism instead, civil disobedience is a thing. And there's also lawful resistance. Link related.

http://www.offrosterguns.com

>>31205502
>git off my lawn!

Don't bitch about shit if you aren't gonna do anything about it you old faggot

>>31205547
>aren't gonna do anything about it you old faggot

How on earth did you get that impression? Pissing and moaning at my elected representatives is what I do best. I also lurk DU to see what they're up to, and to occasionally slip in some subtle think pieces. Drawing the connection between gun control and institutional racism seems to work really well.

So, what are you doing for gun owners?

>>31205723
>Drawing the connection between gun control and institutional racism seems to work really well.


wait what?

>>31205771
The GCA of 68 passed, in large part, because of the specter of armed and angry black people patrolling neighborhoods. The 2 Kennedy shootings alone wouldn't have been enough to get it passed. As soon as MLK got shot, that changed everything. Black folks got riled.

The Black Panthers had been around since 66, very leftist and very anti-cop. You know all of this BLM bullshit that's going on today? It was exactly like that in the late 60s, only with more bomb throwing. And a ton more lefty dingbats shooting at cops. That's actually the impetus that got the Act pushed through in record time, all of the minority unrest.

There weren't SWAT teams in those days, just cops with revolvers and shotguns. They actually were pretty outgunned, their only real advantage was comms and organization.

Anyhow, Congress passed the act because they wanted to keep a lid on restive minorities. It didn't help that the NRA encouraged them to do so. Although, you do have to keep in mind that the NRA of the 60s was a white guy/bolt action only shooting club back then. I gave up my membership in the 80s, when I realized that the organization no longer stood for the values and interests of the majority of shooters.

So, to bring this ramble full circle, GCA68 passed with the sole intent of disarming blacks. All other subsequent legislation disproportionately affects minority communities.

I can also explain how gun control laws are responsible for the disproportionate amounts of black crime.

>>31206052
>I can also explain how gun control laws are responsible for the disproportionate amounts of black crime.


Pls do! Very interesting!

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>>31205723
>Pissing and moaning at my elected representatives is what I do best

>wahhhhhh i can't get ammo
>i know, i'll write a letter!
>that'll show them!

Kek, old people really are fucking stupid and out of touch.

>>31206244
So, tell me, O hip one, how do you express your displeasure to your elected representatives? Interpretative dance?

>>31202580

I know that feeling man. I carry small thing of baby wipes in my man purse, after every shit I got to use at least 1 to 2 wipes, or else I just feel nasty as fuck.

>>31202703

Tampons work pretty decent for tinder, you got to fluff the shit out of it. Cotton works amazong, why you think the number 1 make your own tinder is cotton balls and a lil bit of vasoline? Plz don't tell me that you're this retarded.

>>31202095
>tampons
fuck, bullet sponges, I totally forgot about those and I was just going over a shopping list earlier this morning

>>31206174
It goes back to the GCA and the social engineering of the 60s. Welfare, in all of it's forms, and things like public housing projects were all the rage. Due to socioeconomic factors, and the last vestiges of post-Civil War racism, the black population dwelled a lot closer to the poverty line than whites typically did.

Historically, this is normal for large populations who were integrating into American culture. The Irish and Italians went through a similar phase after their mass migrations to the new world. It was more complicated for blacks because of slavery, the Civil War, Reconstruction, and subsequent legislation.

Regardless, if they'd just been left alone, legislatively speaking, after the 50s, everything would have been fine. As blacks normalized into society, their general condition as a whole would have crept upward toward parity with everybody else.

The problem is, the lefties and libs wanted to meddle. The civil rights movement was still a recent phenomenon, and the left wanted to show how not-racist they were. They also realized that there was an untapped power base just waiting to be exploited.

So, the left started up dem programs. The war on poverty, TANF, WIC, Section 8, and every other handout program. Don't get me wrong, there are times and places where this type of social charity is needful. But not to the degree to which it's been pushed. In essence, the Dems were buying votes.

If you take any group of people and provide for all of their basic needs at no cost to them, that group is going to become complacent. Drive, focus, motivation, initiative, and creativity all atrophy. You see this among career welfare recipients, regardless of ethnicity.

Part of this social engineering was the message that gunzrbad, mmmmkay? Remember, JFK and RFK were Dems, and MLK was pretty left of center. Their deaths were major formative events during this time.

1/?

>>31202239
kek

>>31207025
keep going

>>31207025
2/?

The intention of all of this programming and whatnot was to jumpstart minorities into equality. Back then, when you talked about minorities, that was code for black folks.

The effect of all of this do-gooding was nowhere near the intended result. It created a cultural learned helplessness. This isn't a strictly black phenomenon, but more a socioeconomic stratum problem. It just happens that blacks were overrepresented in the affected strata.

As long as recipients toed the party line and didn't make waves, they'd be taken care of. If they became problematic, irregularites would be discovered in their benefits application.

The net effect was to tell a whole societal layer that they were incapable of managing their own affairs, just let the gummint take care of it. In short, they were institutionally regressed to a childlike state. So they began acting like children.

Of course, Big Government is more than happy to slip into the Daddy role. Provider, stern but fair disciplinarian, jolly giver of gifts to the deserving, and now increasingly abusive.

Meanwhile, back in the hood, things are getting increasingly worse. About 4 generations of learned helplessness doesn't make for a happy or fulfilled populace. They begin acting like unruly children.

>>31207728
go

>>31207728
3/?

One of the ways this childish behavior manifests is in their interpersonal relationships and treatment of each other. Somebody has something you want? Hit them until they give it to you. Somebody takes your favorite thing? Hit them and take it back, or go tell Daddy.

Time to digress. These giveaway programs are a lot like how Communism works out in practice. It's supposed to be to each according to need, from each according to ability. Problem is, the system kills any any productivity beyond that necessary for survival. Ability gets throttled back, need stays full bore.

Government assistance programs provide no outlet for creativity, or personal initiative. The cultural background frustrates finding positive outlets for these normal human urges. So the smart, motivated ones look for ways to quell their restlessness and boredom. Drugs and alcohol are two popular methods. So is violence. Or random destruction. Anything to break the monotony.

Of course, Daddy frowns on this and takes increasingly strict steps to stop the behavior. Problem is, Daddy isn't providing meaningful alternatives. So, the behavior continues.

Another factor in play is, with Big Government acting as the ultimate provider, normal familial and community bonds weaken. There's no social or family pressure to behave in a civilized manner. Why should they? Needs are met without obligation, wants are met by exactly the kind of misbehavior that other social strata vigorously discouraged.

>>31207670
>>31207953
Sorry it's taking so long. Doing it on my phone, between various minor chores.

>>31202864
No we use steel. I've acquired 5 all steel. Never seen one aluminum one.

great looking bag m8. better than most posted here.
how 'bout a shot of the hip belt, what kind of suspension does it have? the real heart of a good pack, anything else is just a bag with straps.

>>31205001
Ah yes because hornady, Olin, federal, LAX etc are all from China. My God you're dense. Go back to your fantasy world where non of this ever happened. And since your angle here is that gun shops somehow grow ammo on the shelves or that the internet wasn't effected we can pretend the shit cheaper than dirt pulled never happened either

>>31208243
4/?

One thing that Daddy can't provide is acceptance, approval, and love. Weakened and fractured family structures don't meet the need, or provide exactly the wrong kind. Ironically, this is also endemic among socioeconomic classes several strata above the welfare layer. Different causes, but still very much present. A child doesn't care if his absentee dad is in prison, dead, or working 100 hours/week in a law office. The child just knows he has no dad. This commonality explains, in part, why rap and hip-hop has resonated with the well-to-do white hipster crowd. It's not cultural appropriation, it's a voice for the unspeakable.

The various strata will actively seek that sense of family, of belonging to a group of like individuals who'll accept them regardless of defect or deficiency, and gently correct them when they err. At the welfare level, this manifests in gang behavior. The gang provides everything that the failed family can't.

Besides providing for Maslow's needs, the gang structure also gives a sense of independence and control over destiny. These were among the earliest casualties of the welfare class, they may not know exactly what's missing but they're aware of the void.

A flawed educational system acts as a positive feedback loop, reinforcing negative behavior patterns while encouraging the learned helplessness pattern. The systemic flaws are clearly apparent to everybody involved, and send a message that the welfare class is only worth the effort of feeding and housing them, but not worth the effort of teaching them enough to better themselves.

All of the factors I've talked about engender a formless resentment toward the government. The welfare class know they're pawns in somebody's game, they just don't know whose game, or what game, or even what the rules are.

>>31205547
Did we read the same post, cause you seem to be implying that he is somehow the problem

>>31205502
Good on you anon. I've never been to California but it seems like a state that needs to be taken back so to speak, and it sure as hell won't happen on its own. Every California expat I've ever met seems to carry the paradox of California being the greatest shit ever, but not worth staying or fighting for

>>31208698
there also are trying to bring there shit gun laws to Oregon.

>>31206052
>>31207025
>>31207728
>>31208243
>>31208634

Would somebody screen cap this? It's odd to see something that makes sense on 4chan and I'm on mobile right now. Seems pretty well put together

>>31208794
Seconded. I'm putting up 100 of my own Internetz to the anon who does it.

>>31208749
But.. But south Oregon was like north cali but not shitty. Fuck

>>31208634
5/?

The overall welfare environment tends toward a lot of rules, both formal and unwritten. Breaking the formal ones can get you locked up, which can be viewed as a rite of passage. Breaking the informal ones can get you ostracized, crippled, or killed. Of course, Big Daddy makes every effort to enforce the formal rules while stifling the street rules.

Community leaders within the welfare class side with the government out of sheer pragmatism. They're massaging the system to gain more benefits for their local community, and, by extension, themselves. These local leaders also typically represent the older, more stable residents of an area. They want the status quo without the excitement and uncertainty.

Many of these community leaders are clergy of some form, because that's the easiest way to assume the mantle of authority. This, in turn, gives rise to certain cultural speech formalities. The reverends Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are exemplars of this speaking pattern.

Now, finally to the gun part. For decades, the government has been telling the welfare class that guns are a no-no. Big Daddy wants the troublesome kids to be as harmless as possible. Community leaders side with the gov for a variety of reasons. Altruism may be one, I'm not betting on it. All of the pro-gun community leaders were killed off or incarcerated in the 60s and 70s.

So, we have Daddy telling the rebellious kids to stay away from the forbidden fruit. Like that's really going to happen. Of course a segment of the welfare class is going to get guns, simply because it's frowned on. Daddy don't like it, so it must be cool.

Guns in the hood are viewed as argument winners, problem solvers, security blankets, status symbols, and a voice for the functionally illiterate. The gov doesn't like this, not one bit. Too much usurpation of the customary gov roles. So, Daddy works hard to get and keep guns out of the hood.

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Not OP but purchased pic related for BOB, how did I do?

I bought a new flashlight for my BOB this week and it just came in. Runs off of a single 18650 2200mah battery. Has high, medium, low, strobe, and SOS settings. 600 lumens and completely waterproof. Less than $20 on amazon.

Link for those interested.

https://www.amazon.com/BYB-Flashlight-Rechargeable-Reflector-Resistant/dp/B017R9YNRC

>>31209190
Not bad. I have one and used to use it as a get-home bag in my car's trunk.

Food (2 Mountain House meals, 2400 kcal lifeboat rations, folding stove & hexamine, camp pot, camp utensils), water (2 bottles of water, Sawyer Mini, folding bag, coffee filters), tools (multitool, compass, fire starters, flashlight, glowsticks, zipties), shelter (mylar blankets, handwarmers, reflective tarp, paracord), and some light medical (basic FAK & trauma kit). Aside from that, it holds either four BX-10 mags and two 100rd boxes or four BX-25 mags. I'm shy on a few things, like an emergency radio (with crank, solar panel, and USB charger), clothing (have a few itchy blankets instead), and spare batteries.

In the future, I may put a folding 12GA and shells in there instead of the 10/22 TD. Add to that a handgun--an SR22, SP101, LC9S, or a G26.

Anyone else keep Fish Mox Forte in their bag or is that just me?

>>31209149
6/?

This gives rise to a number of problems. The biggest one being, it sends another message to the welfare class that they are definitely separate and by no means equal. The Bill of Rights is for others, but not them. Disenfranchising a whole class of people is not a good idea.

Another huge problem is, legislation to keep guns out of the hood has to be all-encompassing. Otherwise, it's obviously racist and patently unconstitutional even by the skewed standards of the New Left. Instead, they have to settle for stealth racism. Make no mistake, the Left is just as racist as the Right. Both sides have a vested interest in keeping the welfare class helpless and dependent. The left as a power base, the right as a bugaboo to keep their power base in line. I suspect that both sides considered the welfare class to be a ready source of disposable hoplites in the event of war with the USSR. Draft and casualty statistics from the Vietnam war show a slight overrepresentation of blacks, which could be viewed as supporting data if you squint just right.

This isolation of the welfare class also tells the other socioeconomic classes that the welfare class is of lesser value, hence entitled to fewer rights. This keeps the racial and economic barriers nice and rigid. And it helps keep the various power bases nice and insular.

As long as there's a significant welfare class, we'll be constantly battling gun-grabbing legislation. It's how the system has evolved, and it's too useful to the establishment to be allowed to change. Institutional and legislated racism is a fact of life in the US. It's an effective management tool.

Olive Drab molle-laden daypack with 4-day kit, $40 bullshit off a walmart rack
>4x 2400cal ration crackers
>2L off-brand hydro bladder
>spare clothes, shorts, fleece, flannel, t-shirt, boot socks, lots of sweat socks, knit cap
>rope rope and more paracord
>tinder matches and two firestarters
>compass
>co2 pistol, spare cartridges, spare pellets
>cheap imported chinese "survival" knife, hollow screwtop hilt
>gerber suspension multi-tool
>snakebite kit
>hatchet & machete
>self-defense spike
>molle-compatable shotgun scabbard, olive drab
>iodine, deet, camp soap
>solar charging usb/micro-usb battery pack
>off-brand lifestraw
>LED flashlight
>2x emergency blankets, 2x emergency ponchos
>spare leather belts (various waistbands sizes

Tru-spec 24 7 tacvest, fatigue shirt, & cargo slacks
>pockets everywhere
>just ordered a 1.5L Camelbak bladder for the vest's rear pouch
>2x shotshell cartridge belts (18+18)
>2x shotshell bandoliers (28+56)
>2x wood handled folding knives
>3x spare 9mm mags (17ea, 5 hydrashok up top, 12 aluminum cased FMJ on bottom; spares: 50x Winchester JHP, 152x Al-cased FMJ)
>oversized leather belt as poor-man's drop-leg platform to carry knife and pistol holster

Leather map case
>various books
>paper, pens, pencils
>deck of COLT leather-men playing cards

>Endurance/Luxury Packs
Surplus OD duffel w/extra clothes, canvas sheet, minimalist sewing kit
Internal frame rolling luggage duffel w/books and games [HEAVY, ditch first]

>>31209762
7/?

A very recent problem that's coming to light is the fact that the system is becoming increasingly dysfunctional. There are cracks in the edifice. The parties of the establishment are representative of an ever-decreasing percentage of both the left and the right. An ever growing string of events illustrates this point. Ruby Ridge, Waco, OKC, OWS, the Tea Party, Bundy Ranch, Malheur, BLM, the near-nomination of Sanders, and the nomination of Trump. All indicative of the same problem- we've lost control of our government.

I could make a case that the the latest batch of high-profile shootings is also symptomatic of the same problem, but I would need to veer into tinfoil hat territory. Don't want to go there. Yet.

Having a government sanctioned underclass is dangerous on many levels. It acts to split society, which facilitates governance. That's a favorite of Fascism, btw. Iirc, it's listed as a characteristic of classical Fascism in one or more definitions.

A permanent disenfranchised class can also become a target of other classes, when they're dissatisfied. HobowithAshotgun touched on this in his excellent series of posts, last night.

The welfare class can also present a danger if they decide they want a bigger piece of the pie. They've been taught that they're entitled without having to exert any effort. BLM riots and similar are presymptomatic of how this can play out.

The biggest danger of a permanent welfare class is the fact that some percentage of our society is permanently removed from making any type of meaningful contribution to our society.

Right now, we're rich. We can absorb the extra load. But that load does have a noticeable impact on our ability, as a nation, to respond to sudden events and regional emergencies. Katrina is the textbook example.

What happens if we get hit with a bigger emergency? Say, for instance, the New Madrid fault cuts loose 3 days before another Katrina makes landfall?

>>31202095
Why Tampons?

>>31210294
8/?

And ISIS gets lucky among the confusion and manages to pop a dirty bomb on the waterfront of one of our coastal cities? We're going to be stretched thin, responding to all of that (guarantee that the dirty bomb gets the bulk of the first response, even though it's the least damaging.

With all of that going on, the welfare class is going to start feeling neglected. The ones affected by the event are going to want FEMA trailers and gummint cheese right now. And they'll riot until they get their way. This siphons resources from the real problems, and creates openings for bad actors like China to stick their beak in.

Let's revisit the religion aspect, briefly. Remember, a lot of community leaders among the welfare class are clergymen of one stripe or another. How well do you suppose radical clergy would be received in the ghettoes? The foundation for deep seated, Euro-style radical Islamic problems exists in every one of our urban areas. If it comes to pass, things are going to get bloody.

So, how do we fix welfare? I'll say it again, some social charity is a necessary thing. Overdoing it the way we do is grossly unnecessary. It will be hard to break the cycle of dependence, though.

The easiest way would be to reintroduce the CMP into all inner city schools. Mandatory, and federally funded. Funding contingent upon full participation by all students, no deferrals except in the case of provable physical disability. The nearest MEPS will determine and examine qualifying disability cases. Children must shoot a qualifying score as a condition of advancement to the next grade level. There would be other changes to curriculum and staffing levels, but I'd rather not get into that.

Kids will want to go to school, and stay in school, because they get to shoot stuff. It's a lot easier to teach students who are engaged and motivated. They also learn TD, safe handling, proper form, and marksmanship.

>>31210304
you stick them in bullet holes

>>31210547
Thanks for sharing. Well written my friend.

>>31210547
>bring back marksmanship classes
this is my every anime fantasy ever

>>31210304
decent temp fix gettin yourself or dude off the x without having to fuck around with a tq. unless there's some serious arterial bleeding.

>>31210547
9/?

Hitting the X ring is an immediate self esteem booster. One that can be shown off all day long. And think about the paradigm shift when some homie does that sideways gangsta hold and gets laughed off the range.

Shooting sports can be used as an intro to a bunch of STEM disciplines- chemistry, physics, ballistics, metallurgy, materials sciences, plus an assortment of vocational fields.

I know I've over-simplified a lot of complex issues, but I've wanted to clarify my thoughts on the issue for a while. This all spun up from the fact that gun control is inherently racist. This is the first time I've ever laid it all out. I wonder how many more watchlists it put me on?

If you are prioritizing Bug out bags over bugging in you're doing it wrong.

Having a BOB is meaningless if you don't have a site B shelter stocked with provisions. The BOB is really a get home bag and it's useless if your plans are to go get lost in the woods and slowly starve to death.

>>31210701
this is known, the trip down to Camp Bravo takes about 8 hours, a 4-day bag plus endurance bags should be enough to cover most transit contingencies outside of a foot march across the states

>>31210739

That's good but that shouldn't be plan A to bug the fuck out when the lights go out.

I get the BOB stuff though. It's an essential thing to have set up but that's a contingency situation only piece of gear.

People should be stockpiling food and water. Have a workable solar system setup supplemented with a gas generator, some guns and a lot of ammo. HAM radio equipment to stay in the know and a friends & family support system to accumulate supplies and skills sets.

I get why people do the BOB first because it's easier and cooler to have but stuffing mylar bags full of white rice and oxygen absorbers should be more important.

>>31210865
I don't decide when to BO, I'm just an Able hand to Cain.

>>31210985
You BO when your current position is untenable, or clearly about to become so. Rising flood waters, approaching flame front, hazmat spill, angry mob- stuff like that.

Have more than 1 egress route planned, have a definite BO location planned, with a backup or possibly a long-term waypoint. Have multiple travel routes picked out.

Bugging out is the most dangerous part of any shtf event you can name. You're leaving your sheltered location and supplies to travel at a time when travelling is not the optimal solution. On top of which, you may be sick or injured. Imagine having to get out of a flood zone while on crutches, and you've got the flu. Hobbling out into that blizzard is really going to suck.

Plan for the realistic worst, prep accordingly.

>>31202138
That looks nice.

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>>31211676
>>31208480

>>31210701
>The BOB is really a get home bag

Yupp. I leave my city home and try to make it to my parents and family where I grew up. The BOB comprises shit I may need on this trip.

>>31211736
in that regard it's more like a simple 3 day pack. It's what I'd need to fight my way back home.

>>31208478
>No we use steel. I've acquired 5 all steel. Never seen one aluminum one.

what?

>>31206052
>>31207025
>>31207728
>>31208243
>>31208634
>>31209149
>>31209762
>>31210294
>>31210547
>>31210634


Thx for the effort. I'm kinda a racist so I don't agree on the parts where you state that black violence is engineered but all in all it does make sense. The thing you describe has been called the "Deomcrat Plantation" by others.

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op bump

>>31202095
good kit
however I find it strange that you would bring tampons and a water filter, but no food at all
also get a burner phone so you can chordinate with people and contact your friends for support

also don't presume you will be dressed when SHTF, keep a full set of clothes and hiking boots with your BOB
if you are dressed just leave them behind

also bring a bin bag, to hide your backpack in, or to poop into, or to catch water, or for any other thing
also can be used to black out a window in a building you are staying in

>>31212657
>however I find it strange that you would bring tampons

for tinder.

>but no food at all

a few protein bars will be thrown in.

>also get a burner phone so you can chordinate with people and contact your friends for support

yeah, I was thinking about getting us a few radios for a time but decided against it...

>also don't presume you will be dressed when SHTF, keep a full set of clothes and hiking boots with your BOB if you are dressed just leave them behind

well the lvl0 setup contains a whole ACU + ECWCS rain gear

>also bring a bin bag, to hide your backpack in, or to poop into, or to catch water, or for any other thing also can be used to black out a window in a building you are staying in

The backpacks have covers that are waterproof and will float once they are in them.

>>31209762
I like reading about this stuff, where can I read more?

>>31210634
WTf learn shooting > then become a stem God? Blacks have a average iq of 85 , this shit will never work

>>31212805
>WTf learn shooting > then become a stem God?
Yeah, Didn't you hear how Jerry Miculek got an invitation to CERN because he can split an atom at 2000 meters with a .22?

>>31212868
op bump

>>31211784
>I'm kinda a racist so I don't agree on the parts where you state that black violence is engineered

Not necessarily engineered, but part of and integral to the culture. Engineering implies deliberate intent to achieve that result. I don't believe that the Great Society of LBJ was trying for that particular result. It was an unintended consequence.

If we, as a society, had just left blacks alone, they would have eventually risen to their own level within society and successfully integrated. This process takes generations, and has to be driven from within. Trying to jump start it through outside agencies will always fail miserably. The Italians and Irish both went through the same process, without outside intervention, and were successful.

The blacks within the welfare class have very little respect for the government that provides for their needs. Why should they? They're not vested in it, nor do they participate. And yes, they're just as racist as you are.

Part of that is cultural, a lot of that is human nature. African blacks are about as racist as Asians, who are probably the biggest rascists on the planet. The Rwanda genocide was purely an exercise in ugly racism.

Btw, everything I posted is strictly my own opinion. I can't point to a body of research to back my opinions. However, I have been observing and pondering on the overall topic for the better part of 35 years.

>>31212783
Dig around through here.

http://www.rand.org/pubs.html

You might also want to pick up an assortment of anthropology, sociology, and US government textbooks to give you some background. College level intro texts will probably be a good choice. Don't buy them new, they're expensive. Check out second hand and thrift stores in college towns. You can get them for a few bucks that way.

You can also review the legislation behind the various Federal welfare programs, which will give you the publicly stated reason for the legislation. Then compare the statement with the reality.

>>31212805
>Blacks have a average iq of 85

Because of the shit educational system, and because their culture doesn't favor any efforts at self improvement. It's one of the effects of learned helplessness.

That's why I advocated putting the CMP back into schools. Full court press in the inner city districts. Guns are the hook to get them to go to and stay in school. Shooting teams give them an outlet for their competitive urges.

Not every kid is going to become a Heisenberg because of guns, but there are going to be some who want to know the why and how behind the bang or the hole in the target.

Baby steps. It took generations to get them to their current state, it's going to take twice as long to reverse the process.

Before welfare came along, poor folks had to depend on themselves, each other, and on charity. They knew self reliance, community cooperation, and essential civility. Those were survival traits. It all went away with the advent of welfare.

>>31202418
How's that federal lr work for you? I picked some up right when we finally started getting .22 back in my area but have yet to run any through my 10/22

>>31202861
Trash bag rain cover over backpack? When I go backpacking at high altitudes I always have one on mine. You could not tell the size, character, or contents of the bag at any distance.

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>>31215844

>he thinks IQ is based on quality of education.

>>31215954
Response from one with an 80 IQ.

>>31216017

Because the reason you can establish a childs IQ as young as 5 is because of their robust education.

>>31215954
And you really think that black people genetically are just more stupid than other races?

Go back to stormfront.

>>31216342

Not a lot of stormfront in the idea that congenital features are carried down genetic lines. Basic hereditary traits are a thing. Hard to be tall with short parents, hard to be smart with stupid parents. IQ has geographic distributions like literally any other hereditary trait. Why can ethnicities have distinctive physiological characteristics but that somehow doesn't extend to brain function?

Are you going to argue that the epicanthic folds Asians have are a social construct?

>>31203471
this post didnt make you look better, it made you look dumber

>>31216017
IQ can shift up to 20 points over the course of your life. Though it was mostly a downward trend because of rising education standards influencing what goes into the test, that still makes a case for education shifting IQ generationally.

>>31204604
there is nothing of any reputable testing linking aluminum and alzheimers

Its all psuedo science holistic bullshit websites and fearmongering

>>31215954
Education and culture, doofus. The potential is there. Like I've been saying, it's going to take generations before the bell curve starts moving right.

>>31204938
says the guy shooting nazi relics

>>31207025
>The problem is, the lefties and libs wanted to meddle. The civil rights movement was still a recent phenomenon, and the left wanted to show how not-racist they were.

you forgot the part where the democrats, where the last vestoges of southern racism went to hide, embraced eugenics and socialism, using both as a means to control blacks, as well as supporting the drug culture of the 60s and 70s allowing it to flourish within the black communities.


>>31207728
>The effect of all of this do-gooding was nowhere near the intended result.

there was no "do gooding"

they knew exactly where their actions would lead, which is why they did it.

Stop giving them a moral pass on the grounds that they were incompetent.

>>31216511
>IQ has geographic distributions like literally any other hereditary trait.

Yes, and the cultural mores of the welfare class favor low IQs. That doesn't mean that there aren't bright or smart people within the class. They turn toward culturally acceptable outlets, which will tend to sidestep the Dickens-Flynn feedback cycle of self enhancement. In short, every ghetto genius has to reinvent the wheel. This stalls intellectual development, which fosters class-wide stagnation.

I've been harping on time in terms of generations for a reason. There are no quick fixes for the welfare class. Bringing median IQ up is one small piece of the puzzle. Doing that requires introducing additional challenges into the welfare environment, which stimulates cognitive processes. Tapering down benefits would be a method of introducing these challenges. Putting work-for-benefits programs into place would also also work. The overall idea is to get off of the unearned benefits cycle, and begin instilling normalized values of personal accountability into the class as a whole.

A game changer would be fixing benefits at a certain rate, with increases only allowed for provable disability. No more increased benefits for additional babies. The bennies you get upon entry into the system are the cap. Have 4 more children while on welfare? Too bad. This too would serve as an introduced challenge. It would also serve as a means of regulating unwanted behavior within the culture.

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>all you fags taking that much shit with you for a few days
i survived a few months innawoods with just a bow, arrows, knife, some cord, 2 wool blankets and 1 fleece blanket and a leather bottle and metal tin can for cooking. it's not difficult.


and i took proper wool clothing, not muh synthetics shit

>>31217230
>some next level shit

>>31203884
A ton of hay is what 5 round bales or maybe 30 square bales. Your hands can't handle that?

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>>31207025
Best thread derail ever

even though, I do agree with most this

just bought a pack of tampons and nitrile gloves, segregated them into ziploc packs and distributed between my carry rig medpouch and pack, looking at a molle-hung pouch to keep my medical stuff separated from the rest of my gear since my BOB is already overful

>>31208794
You are attracted to it because it offers a nice non-racist explanation for racially determined behavior. But that's exactly why its bullshit.

Dear /k/, stop intellectually cuckolding yourselves by hewing to the anti-racism line. As a Jap cunt I realize more than anyone what bullshit these "oh they were just seduced by welfare" arguments are. Race is real, and it is more than skin deep.

By accepting and repeating the "welfare corrupted them" meme, you are merely giving more ammo for the egalitarian mindset that is currently murdering your society. Black folks are never going to become upstanding intelligent folks who believe in your brand of freedom. It'll never happen. So, whitey, please stop giving rope to your hangman for free.

>>31218732
Either way we can't afford their subsistence programs, so regardless of the reason why, they need to have their lifelines cut. Why not give the liberals a hefty does of egalitarianism to choke on while they're labeled the tyrant.

>>31202239
Kekarooni

I watch Dr. Strangelove at least once every year.......never gets old

>>31218764
This(whitey reaching for any non-racist excuse) is an issue that's been bothering me for a while. Instead of accepting racism on the basis that the science actually supports it, they go "oh I'm not racist" because they are too pussy to push back against our society's biggest lie.

>>31215844
>Because of the shit educational system
>dey need mo money for da programs
Fuck off, idiot.
>>31216342
>being this stupid
lol wew lad, you must be a nig yourself

>>31216342
>And you really think that black people genetically are just more stupid than other races?
Yes. This isn't even debateable anymore, IQ is genetic. Only (((social science))) still believes the lie. Lewontin has been scientifically disgraced for a few decades now. Do try to keep up.

>>31202703
Nothing burns as reliably well as some cotton and a little bit of vaseline. I've started many fires with a cotton ball and vaseline.

>>31219363
you can kill a man with a piece of wax paper and two teabags

>>31212689
that's great man
however I really think a BOB needs more food, because if your primary aim is to be able to flee a disaster zone you don't want to be stopping for food and water three times a day

>>31219363
I've heard of this before as tinder, but how does it compare to char cloth?

>>31203608
I stockpile ammo because sometimes it's hard to find and sometimes when it is available it's being sold at panic prices. If SHTF I want enough to last my family awhile not just for self defense, but for hunting as well. Some animals are just easier to get with a quick shot than they are with one of my bows.

My goal is to keep self several thousand rounds in each caliber that's useful (10,000 for .22lr). If for some reason one caliber isn't available, I'll know that I have enough for awhile. It has nothing to do with wanting to a fucking neighborhood Rambo. It's basic prepping. Having enough of whatever on hand in case Wally Martinez can't keep shelves stocked. Let urbanites fight for the scraps, I'll be in the country with enough on hand to get by.

>>31203469
I have thousands of rounds of ammo for the same reason I have 20 pallets of bottled water plus about 20 gallons of water, plus a few hundred batteries and extra radios.
Its more than enough than I will ever need, and that makes it barely enough.

Living in a populated city let's me know that shootouts will occur, there are other people around me with ARs that don't stock pile ammunition, and I'd like them to be able to patrol with me as they help keep the neighborhood safe.

There's a term in the medical field that I forgot but it had to due with vaccinations, if most of the populace is vaccinated it severely restricts how well a disease can spread. Well if a good amount of my neighborhood is armed and trust worthy then we can fight back against looters better.

>>31219487
Never used char cloth. I e literally been using the same huge bag of cotton balls and tub of vaseline for 3 or 4 years. They cost about $5 total. Is char cloth cheaper?

>>31216971
>you forgot the part where the democrats, where the last vestoges of southern racism went to hide,

No I didn't. They were bending over backward to appear not-racist, because that made controlling the minority power base easier. The only reason the Kennedys folded on civil rights was because they wanted to keep the power base in their pocket while simultaneously gearing down for the upcoming adventure in Vietnam.

>Stop giving them a moral pass on the grounds that they were incompetent.

The original idea was altruistic. The original people who worked to make it come to pass had good intentions. And we all know what the road to hell is paved with.

Reality intervened, and the power brokers infiltrated the system. The exact same thing happened with OWS and the Tea Party.

It started off as starry-eyed idealism, leavened with towering ignorance. As soon as it looked useful, the bottom feeders and nightcrawlers usurped it. The idea of a social safety net was perverted into the US version of a patronage scheme. Buying and selling voter blocks.

There was, and is, a great deal of incompetence within the system. It's been flavored with increasing doses of cynicism, and codified into the institutional SOP.

That's why we'll never be rid of welfare fraud- it's part of the system.

Moral pass? No. I'm not going to start demanding accountability from people long gone about the wrongs they did to our society when I was a small child.

I do, however, study the flawed system. If you pry at the right cracks, you can get a glimpse of the inner workings of the whole dysfunctional lash-up. Enough glimpses give you an idea of where the weak points are. And where the controls are hidden, since you can't just toss sand in the bearings and expect good results.

Bringing the whole edifice to a screeching halt would be instant shtf. Instead, it needs to be slowly redirected and throttled back, slowing down until it's obsolete.

Then, we legislate it out of existence.

>>31202095
>tampons
no

>zip ties
replace with para cord.

>deerskin gloves
no need to project to us about how fucking wonderful your gloves are.

>poolshock
no

>4 bic lighters
good

>high-fluoride toothpaste
regular works fine too.

>goggles and shooting glasses
pick one leave one

You lack food, cooking utensils, spare clothes, and a sleep/shelter system.

>>31221323
Also missing a proper personal first aid kit, navigation aid (button compass sewn to your ass), and a watch.

>>31218732
>explanation for racially determined behavior.

Bullshit, yourself. It's culturally determined behavior. The culture in question does have an enormous overrepresentation of blacks, but correlation does not equal causation. Whites within the same socioeconomic stratum will exhibit the same objectionable behavior.

Japan, prior to 1945, exhibited all sorts of horrid behavior toward everybody they encountered. You guys were, and may still be, some of the most bigoted fuckers on the planet. Nanking, Bataan, Unit 731, and a whole litany of other savage behavior were justified as the rightful actions of the master race. Anybody not Japanese was viewed as subhuman.

Then, they got their shit pushed in, hard and deep. The occupation government of MacArthur systematically dismantled every aspect of Japanese society that contributed to their militarism and execrable behavior during the war.

If it was racial, as they claim, the behavior would be pervasive even today. It's not. It was cultural, not racial. Mac eradicated the culture, replacing with the one that gave rise to anime, Hello Kitty, and other atrocities.

No, welfare class behavior is cultural. Not to say they're not racist. They are, in spades. You're trying to ascribe racist behavior as racial behavior.

I wasn't trying to promote a non-racist justification for welfare class behavior. Everybody is racist, to a greater or lesser degree. However, their behavior is adequately explained by their cultural mores.

Welfare leeches, regardless of color, fall into certain patterns. A constantly growing sense of entitlement is part of the package. They weren't seduced or corrupted by welfare, it's a payoff by their handlers. Remember, the welfare class is a power base. They know it and they resent it. They're not getting their hands on any of the power.

OP here, thx for postan to all of you all!

>>31221539
No. IQ is real and as gentically determined as skin color. And African IQs range from 70-85. People like that can't integrate into a society that was built by IQ 100 people for IQ 100 people, just as the dumb/retarded white people with the same IQs can't integrate.

>>31219658
Herd immunity.

>>31221539
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Transracial_Adoption_Study

But you are wrong. It is genetic and cultural. Mostly genetic.

>>31221975
Seems that your link says otherwise-

>the finding that the average IQ of "socially classified" black children was greater than that of the U.S. white mean

>results from the Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study provide little or no conclusive evidence for genetic influences underlying racial differences in intelligence and achievement

Background material provided with the study does appear to favor cultural inflences as the predominant driver of academic achievement.

>>31221323
>tampons
>no
oh but yo yes.

>replace with para cord.
nah, I don't intend on building shelters.

>no need to project to us about how fucking wonderful your gloves are.

:3

>poolshock
>no

ever cleaned a camelbak without?

>high-fluoride toothpaste
>regular works fine too.

not if you are developing caries.

>>goggles and shooting glasses
>pick one leave one

no. amber shooting glasses are just sun protection. Googles are for when you have to run through the woods so a branch doesn't poke your eye out.

>You lack food,

true. but I've done the hike home without food before. I'm not too concerned about 3 days without food.

>cooking utensils, spare clothes, and a sleep/shelter system.

No shelter. keep warm by moving. he who doesn't move dies.

>>31223156
You're making a lot of assumptions. Like will you be within a 3 day hike of home? Will you be unhindered by injury or environment? Will there be a home to go back to?

>>31223197
>You're making a lot of assumptions.

I have too. I can't prep for everything, the extend of SHTF I can prep for is rather limited.

>Like will you be within a 3 day hike of home?

Most likely. Unless I'm abducted from my city home, I will be.

>Will you be unhindered by injury

If I'm injured I'll need medical help. An IFAK, whch I have for every day use, doesn't help you here.

>or environment? Will there be a home to go back to?

Well if there isn't I'm probably not leaving.

>>31221817
>And African IQs range from 70-85.

You're mis-citing the source. Upon graduation from high school, black students average IQ is 85. White, 100. Both numbers are averages, meaning that half of the sample tested scored higher than the number given.

The difference, 15 points, is equivalent to 3 or 4 class years of school. Cultural factors alone are more than enough to account for the disparity. The welfare class sees no need to better themselves.

We're getting bogged down in petty nitpicking. Regardless of the underlying causes, the welfare class presents a very real threat to society.

In a shtf scenario from outside factors, the welfare class becomes a resource sink. I've already used Katrina as the classic example, but it's so true. There's no return on the resources invested.

The entire class can also be the source of shtf events, Ferguson comes to mind. Or Dallas, although I'm not positive the shooter was properly a member of the class.

In a very widespread scenario, grid down for instance, the welfare class as a whole will probably gut all of the major urban areas. They'll riot until the EBT cards start working, and the lights come back on. Expect inner cities to become slaughterhouses. This will hinder recovery immeasurably.

The only silver lining is, they're not very mobile. That's the other thing Katrina showed us. Most of them won't make it 5 miles out of the hood before running out of luck or resources.

Who /bugin/ here

>>31223391
>You're mis-citing... higher than the number given.

Nope. You should read up on what a bell curve is and read the actual book of the same name on the subject.

>The difference, 15 points, is equivalent to 3 or 4 class years of school. Cultural factors alone are more than enough to account for the disparity.

NO. IQ does not improve with education. It is genetically determined and the environment only effects in in a negative way, eg. bad nutrition during youth can reslt in kids not "reaching their potential". 15 IQ points means the world btw. I can assure you that you have no frieds whith IQs 15 points higher or lower than yours. You just wouldn't jive with people like that and they would not jive with you. YOu would have nothing to talk about, your humor would be different and you would not understand each other's jokes.

>The welfare class sees no need to better themselves.

True. And even if they wanted, they would not be able to. American blacks have the advantage that there has been significant white admixture over the years which gives some of them a chance. African blacks show up here with IQs of 75 and less and people with IQs of 70 are considered functionally retarded.

>We're getting bogged down in petty nitpicking. Regardless of the underlying causes, the welfare class presents a very real threat to society.

No. The owners of the democratic plantation who use them for votes do. They are a fifth coulumn and need to go.

op bump

>>31223884

pls thread don't die on me!

>>31218732
>as a jap cunt
Ah yes, an Asian, the most racist of the races from one of the most fucked cultures of the last two decades. I'll send your opinion right on to waste management. Meanwhile as a Southerner that grew up in Louisiana and has seen first hand the huge gap between niggers that want nothing more than to be niggers, and black people that are fucking pillars of society, I'm going to stick with culture being the issue, since every race has their own nigger

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>>31224983
> I'm going to stick with culture being the issue, since every race has their own nigger

You contiinue your cherry picking which is a form of being a destructive force to society in it's own right. Sure, every group has their bad apples but judging by the standards of the "western world", built by white europeans for white europeans, Africans have more of them. Again, read up on the bell curve. IQ 100 people are the norm for white europeans while Africans with an IQ of 100 are as exceptional as white europeans with IQs of 120+. It's just the way it is. If it wasn't, we'd see cultures like we saw in ancient times in Africa too - which we don't. There is no African equivalent to ancient Greece.

>>31225032
bump

>>31206324
Kek'd. The anon does have some shred of a point tho, writing letters doesn't do a damn thing, needs to be collective thing ya know?

>>31202418
What bullets loaded?

>>31225211
>writing letters doesn't do a damn thing, needs to be collective thing ya know?

Good to know you think he's the only anon in California that actually contacts his representatives

>>31202095
>>shooting glasses
>>googles
>reduce weight
>just brings google glass

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>>31203876
Care to elaborate why?

>>31225032
>There is no African equivalent to ancient Greece.

Oh but I'm the cherry picker here. So are we assuming that the relative lack of advancemet has fuck all to do with Africa being Africa whereas Europe was a mass of different peoples in a rock polisher. Not that Africa is isolated, but it's a bit insulated which makes them an outlier in their own right.

>>31223156
Literal bait. I swear to god /out/ is better at this than we are now.

>>31226425
>Oh but I'm the cherry picker here.

yes.

>So are we assuming that the relative lack of advancemet has fuck all to do with Africa being Africa whereas Europe was a mass of different peoples in a rock polisher. Not that Africa is isolated, but it's a bit insulated which makes them an outlier in their own right.

Nice. You basically admit to it: Africa is shit because they did not have contact with white people to uplift them. thx.

>>31226425
>whereas Europe was a mass of different peoples in a rock polisher.


Also, Africa has many more peoples than Europe. In fact, Africa is the place with the most conserved distribution of distinct populations in the world.

>>31225032
>Again, read up on the bell curve.
Sure, I'll read up on some hollow earth theories too, while I'm at it.

>>31226517
>bell curve
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_distribution

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve

Sorry but it seems you don't even have moderate high school education if you don't know what a bell curve/normal distribution is:

>You're mis-citing the source. Upon graduation from high school, black students average IQ is 85. White, 100. Both numbers are averages, meaning that half of the sample tested scored higher than the number given.

Is just sad and wrong in a very Forrest Gump way

>>31217230
fingerless gloves are such a guilty pleasure.
get over it

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>>31223156
>No shelter. keep warm by moving.

Nigga what if it's a downpour when SHTF? What if it's snowing when SHTF? Have fun dying from exposure.

>>31227037
>Nigga what if it's a downpour when SHTF? What if it's snowing when SHTF? Have fun dying from exposure.

especially then moving is the best solution.

>>31227064
No, finding/setting up shelter and staying dry and warm is the best solution.

Hypothermia is no joke.

>>31227064
>>31223156
I love how idiots in these threads offer "advice" that will kill you.

>>31225032
>Sure, every group has their bad apples but judging by the standards of the "western world", built by white europeans for white europeans, Africans have more of them

Sure. Because you're judging their cultural behavior by our cultural standards. You're also moving the goalposts all over the field. The discussion was about the welfare class in the US.

I suspect that welfare blacks will place lower on standardized tests than African blacks. Why? Culture, not genetics.

>>31227273

With any luck, they'll bring plenty of non(slowly)-perishable food with them for those of us who know what we're doing to scavenge.

>>31224148
OP, your thread kind of derailed, just a little bit. When it gets close to autosage, start another and link this one.

The discussions that derailed the thread are peripherally related to shtf, which is peripherally related to BOBs, so it's not a total loss.

Look at it this way- we're gaining a deeper understanding of the cultural and socioeconomic forces that shape shtf events.

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>>31227273
These are the people who heard about preppers and SHTF from the internet and probably have never tested any of their equipment, let alone gone camping/hiking with it.

These are the people who have BOB and don't have a plan on where they're going to go.

These are the people who have absolutely zero survival training and probably haven't even read a book on the subject.

I've seen cub scouts with more survival sense than these fuckers.

>>31227340

If you're going to buy a product for something like this, you buy 2 and use the hell out of one so you know what you're getting into.

>>31227278
>Sure. Because you're judging their cultural behavior by our cultural standards.

Our culture is where they are so that's the bar by which they have to be judged. How retarded are you? Are we supposed to let the muslim refugees trade their child brides here just because that too is part of their culture? Fuck off and die in a fire niggerlover. IQ is genetic and African IQs are 2 standard deviations lower than those of europeans, making it impossible for them to integrate. I know it will not make the news but it is fact.

t. mad as fuck

>>31227579
>>31227337
>Because you're judging their cultural behavior by our cultural standards.

wuahahahahahah! I can't get over the bullshit you just spewed here! Congrats, you actually made me rage IRL. How can anybody be so stupid to actually say something like this while defending the niggers and claiming they are the same as white europeans? How can you lack self awareness to this extend and suffer from cognitive dissonance at this level and still breath without an iron lung?

>>31223524
I read The Bell Curve in the 90s. The authors state that they believe culture and genetics are equally responsible for placement on the curve. Not race, which is entirely separate from genetics. I also browsed some of the criticisms of the book, finding them to be mostly SJW PC fluff.

>NO. IQ does not improve with education

I got the 15 point spread and the 3-4 schoolyear numbers from

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Transracial_Adoption_Study

>>31223466
Me

>>31226572
>Is just sad and wrong in a very Forrest Gump way

The number and school year spread came from the link in >>31221975

Take it up with them. I'm sure they'll be willing to review your study.

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>>31227687
>>31227740
I don't fucking give a shit at this point - your culture remark killed a piece of my soul just now. I sequence and classify animals for a living and going by your replies I might as well consider a career change and try VCR repair man if this is the awareness that the genpop has on the subject....

>>31227783
> I might as well consider a career change and try VCR repair man if this is the awareness that the genpop has on the subject....

If that's what it takes to soothe your butthurt, go for it. Sounds like somebody needs a hugbox.

>>31227878
>butthurt
no, it's more sadness. you lack the cognitive capacity to even understand why the stuff you said is so stupid.

>>31227937
No, I'm pretty sure it's butthurt. Sadness doesn't drive people to become VCR repairmen.

>>31227278
>I suspect that welfare blacks will place lower on standardized tests than African blacks. Why? Culture, not genetics.

That's a stretch and it'll depend on the area in Africa. Pick a decent US state, Canada, or a Brit black and I would feel better about the odds. Africa is a weird goddamn place

>>31227579
>Our culture is where they are so that's the bar by which they have to be judged.
>Our culture
Bruh, unless your pants are glued below your ass and you aspire to be a thug rapper with street cred from your days selling dope it's not OURs because culture isn't a race or a nationality. Here in the US, which isn't alone in this there is American culture sure, but that's divided into smaller stronger sects.

Have you never met a super white black guy that wasn't raised in poverty. Or white trash, wiggers or chavs?

>>31229300
My reasoning is, African blacks still have to compete to get their needs met. Food, housing, etc. Welfare blacks have their basic needs taken care of. This tends to dull innovation and motivation.