spinoff: It's December 6 1941, the day before Pearl Harbor

>>31202034
They're all photos of nuclear explosions and the devastated ruins of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. As well as Tokyo after the firebombing.

There's nothing Japan could have done to win.

Let's say they got everything at pearl and won at midway.

The US produced more ships in 43 and 44 than the IJN had in their inventory

100 pages of don't fucking do it.

>>31202034
A volume of TLR;D

"don't" 100 times

>>31202055
Japan's only hope was to go for the European colonies and pray the US didn't intervene

Going for the US along with the European colonies just made things so much worse for them, but they just didn't understand how much the American public didn't want to go to war, and it was completely amateur of them to think a more powerful nation like America would actually cower in fear and sue for peace after they bombed our naval base

>>31202103
This. When a country like America gets attacked, it just pisses it off.

>>31202034
Tell them to warn general Patton that they will kill in a HMMWV accidental

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>>31202107
Actually there would have been one more way the Axis could have potentially won the war, but it would have been impossible politically

>Japan goes for Vladvistock and the European colonies
>Stalin panicks now that his biggest fear is confirmed for actually happening and he's fighting a two front war
>he foolishly sends some troops back East to build up against Japan
>maybe he even sends Zhukov since he has experience in that area
>with Zhukov and less Soviet soldiers on the Western front, Hitler manages to take Moscow
>the Soviet Union finally collapses
>it would then be a more even fight with Japan and Germany vs the UK and maybe eventually the US

But of course the huge caveat would be Japan would basically be making a suicide run on Vladivostok and would get nothing out of it in the short term, even though it was probably the only way the Axis could have won WWII

>>31202034
prints of moe anime

Tell them what their culture would be after the war.

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>Don't
Pretty much sums it up

>>31202211
Nice fanfiction. Soviets, during the entire war increased the ammount of troops on Japanese/Manchu border. Meanwhile border incidents in 1938 and 1939 have proven that Japanese Army can't compete with Soviets no matter of conditions(including huge numerical superiority and being close to own supply lines).

Also - Zhukov was a memeboy. He wasn't bad but he's not some genius either.

>>31202144

>Hmmwv
>1945

>>31202263
Yeah they increased the amount of troops on the border while the Japanese did nothing, I'd imagine they'd send even more troops East if Japan actually invaded

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>>31202278
In practical terms it means that they've had manpower and equipment to spare, otherwise they wouldn't be able to strengthen themselves here.

The only difference would be that Kwantung Army would last 2 weeks instead of 2 days had they attacked by 1941. Go back to your cuckshed, tojo, nobody cares about your power fantasy.

>>31202034
the specifications for the manufacture of cavity magnetrons, transistors and the VT fuse, and a warning regarding the treatment of prisoners and to declare war immediately, pearl harbour will still be vulnerable to the attack even with notice

give the fleet better defenses against air attack and airborne radar for better searches and maybe able to beat the USN badly enough to get a peace deal and keep china rather than get nuked.

slim chance of course but better than none and I am assuming 'dont do it' wouldnt work

>>31202211
People tend to forget that Japan was at war with China at the time, they weren't just chilling in the far east. Japan would be in a two front war in China as well as in the north vs ussr.

100 pages of doujinshi

>>31202103
>but they just didn't understand how much the American public didn't want to go to war
Pretty much a myth
Gallup polling from just before Pear Harbour shows widespread support for war with Germany.

>>31202211
>Japan goes for Vladvistock
And get wrecked, Soviets had reserve there for that occasion and pretty large amount of TB-3 bombers in few hours of flight to Tokyo.

>>31202812
I'm not aware of the capabilities of the Soviet unit stationed there but I'd say that strategic bombing of Tokyo with TB-fucking-3s is a suicide mission of little value.

>>31202827
Japs were aware, and they choose to go against US.
By oil embargo US turned time bomb placed under core of Japan economy. They literally counted days before end of oil supplies. War with USSR could not defuse that bomb, because USSR had no oil production there.

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>>31202034
>You were able to bring 100 pages (8.5" x 11") of information back in time with you.

Surprise nigger, I put everything on microfilm and am able to give them a literal turbo-bible of weapons systems from the duration of the Cold War.

>>31203099
The oil production wasn't in the control of the US. The point was to attack everyone BUT the US. The Allies in order to secure resources, and the USSR in order to let Germany win the war and diminish the USSR's power.

>>31203489
>The oil production wasn't in the control of the US.
Fun fact: the Brits and the Dutch sanctioned and embargoed Japan because US pressured them to do it.

>>31203489
>The oil production wasn't in the control of the US.
Cancellation of embargo was in US control. I have numbers and shit, but I'm too lazy to stand up and take the book. I use Japan: A Modern History by James L. McClain. They attack US because they need things that US stop selling.

Microprint of the greatest technological advancements and major world events since then. Japan the world's leading power within 30 years.

>>31203558
>>31203559
I'm saying that the US may have been the ones in charge of the embargo, but the resources in the Pacific were in control of the French, Dutch, and English.

>>31202034
Tell him not to do it.

>>31202034
The American aircraft carriers are out on exercises and you won't nab any of em if you attack tomorrow.

/thread.

>>31204902
You can't /thread your own post, faggot.

>>31204902
Oh, I'm sorry, I never saw that rule.

But I don't care.

>>31204940
Holy fuck, you're a next level shitter. Quoting the wrong post and acting like a self-righteous twelve year old, never mind that you never knew that you weren't supposed to /thread your own post. You can't have been on the site for more than a week.

>>31204951
How am I being self righteous? Nobody obeys your stupid little rule, I see anons posting and /threading all the time. I suppose you expect all OPs not to >inb4 too. Go be autistic about your secret club rules elsewhere. And yes I quoted the wrong post. My mistake. Get over it.

>>31204997
>How am I being self righteous?
Are you not seeing what you're doing? Have you no self awareness at all?

>>31203196

And they can't build any of it because they have not enough steel, not enough coal, not enough oil, not enough factories, and not enough technology base.

Their metallurgy and precision machining tools are all garbage tier, and that's not something you can improve just by telling them how.

>>31202034
It's 100 pages of modern moe manga.

Every soldier is to be shown a facsimile and informed this is the sort of thing Japan will end up unleashing on the world if they do not fight at their best. The sheer determination this should imbue them with will be more than enough to bulk up their Japanese spirit and allow them to destroy the USA.

>print out advanced military tech
>print out revolutionary tech for the next few decades
>help glorious japan to win the war

>>31205362
Telling them how is just half the battle.

However, it's like researching a new tech on HoI-IV, with a 25% research speed bonus + a 50% time reduction.

Anon there just made it so Japan could be a superpower in under 20 years.
So they avoid attacking the USA, and cease their outward expansion for a bit.
Embargo gets lifted, Imperial Japan goes full R&D mode with cheats turned on.

Poof, 10 years later they resume combat operations and steamroller everyone.

>>31204902
Yorktown and Lexington were out on missions, not exercises. Saratoga was being refitted in the West Coast.

>>31202034
>Launch third wave to ensure destruction of Oil and storage facilities
>US Navy can no longer operate longer than 3 months from West Coast Ports until facilities rebuilt and storage levels replenished
Battle of Savo Island
>Push the attack after defeating the Allied Fleet, Marine had no cover and little supplies on the shore
>Admiral Mikawa could've easily wiped out a good portion of the landed Marines and finished off the Allied transport ships as Naval Cover was in full retreat
1st Naval Battle of GuadalCanal
>Push the Attack on Henderson Field while awaiting from 2nd Fleet Admiral Kondo and 8th Fleet Cruiser Force
>While the IJN lost Hiei and a number of smaller ships they were in a much better position than the Allied Naval Forces. Their decision to retreat and allow land based air power full reign against their naval forces lead to much large losses after the actual battle.

Seriously though, one of these three could've potentially ended the war in Japans terms/favor which was Truce with the United States. Now that Truce would've probally only lasted as long as Nazi Germany still stood and then the rest of the world returned to bitch smack Japan, but it would've been possible.

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>>31202211
>soviets
>effectively fighting japan
topest of keks

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>>31202034
write "don't fucking do it" in their moon runes in all 100 pages

>>31206365

> embargo is never lifted until Japan BTFO's out of China
> Americans get drawn into WW2 against Germany (75% public support for war against Germany the day of Pearl Harbor, it was going to happen).
> Germany BTFO even harder with US equipment not diverted towards pacific.
> US turns still mobilized forces towards Japan and tells them to peace out of China
> Japan leaves China or gets annihilated

Without Chinese resources, Japanese growth potential is limited. Remember Japan still has 0 domestic oil production.

>>31206435

This is worse than "Germany could have won" wank that goes on in other threads.

Japan had even less of a chance than Germany, the best they could do is drag out the war another year at the most.

Modern Wars between great powers aren't won and lost by a single battle, or a single campaign. The other side has to lose and lose and lose until they have nothing left to lose.

Yamamoto was correct, if Japan wanted to win WW2, they had to be prepared to dictate the terms of the peace treaty from the White House, and Japan had no chance in hell of doing that.

>>31206683
10/10

>>31206933
>suffer massive surprise attack that wipes out entire BB fleet and Oil/Storage (which includes all repair capability mind you)
>BB's cannot be simply re-floated and repaired without those capabilities like what actually happened
>US Spends months rebuilding it's forces or further Diverts Atlantic Assets to plus Pacific fleet back up
>US Still has to spend months to get Oahu Facilities back to their pre-strike capabilities to supply the fleet
>US realistically has 6-8 Month delay from rebuilding/restructuring until they can do a real force/strike again Japan

Or lets look at Savo Island if above never happened and it followed history
>damn we just lost almost an entire task force, thank god the completely superior IJN fleet sailed away
>All of our Air Cover and remaining large ships are in full retreat
>Only severely damaged small DD/Cruiser force remaining
>Entire Marine Force is on the beach with limited supplies and is America's first true entry into the war after Pearl
>OH SHIT THE IJN IS BACK
>Marine force gets shore bombardment as remaining transports and ships BTFO
>What marines make it into the forest now face Island Defenders and get overrun
So now the US has suffered defeat at Pearl Harbor, Savo Island and Guadal Canal! Damn are we batting 1000 or what!

I'de do one for the Naval Battle of Guadal Canal but it's essentially the same as Savo Island barring bombardment of Henderson Field and cut off of supply to the Island as Allied Forces were extremely lucky the IJN pulled back during the first engagement due to the loss of Hiei and left the transports and remaining damaged fleet alone. This decision to retreat and then send in a lighter force of DD/CA's (which was inadequate to destroy remaining defenders or bombard Henderson Field) as the Heavy Fleet retreated allowed the Allied Fleet time to send TF 64 which included the Washington and South Dakota to arrive as the 2nd Fleet arrived and defeat them.

1/2

>>31202034
Japan couldn't possibly win, but I'd bring 100 pages talking about how MacArthur singlehandedly won the war and massacred millions of Japanese. Oh. And he's sitting in the Phillipines while it's being read.

Might not change the outcome of the war, but it would do America a great service to have the Butcher of Washington martyred

>>31207104
If Abe had continued the fight he could've realistically defeated the remaining heavily damaged defense fleet and allowed Yamamoto's transport force to land fairly uncontested on Guadalcanal. Even if his forces had Stalemated, with the arrival of the 8th Fleet DD/CA force it would've turned the tide and allowed the landing. Even if TF 64 was still sent, the combined forces of Abe, 2nd and 8th Fleet would've been to much for TF64 to withstand and been forced to retreat or be defeated as they tried to relieve the Land forces.

Ultimately ends the same as Savo Island outcome, repeated defeat after defeat for allied forces. We got extremely lucky with the Japanese pride and lack of balls especially in the realm of Naval Warfare where they would retreat at perceived threats and failed to exploit many of the advantages they obtained.

2/2

>>31206933
Other anon here, I'm going to call bullshit. Like it or not, war is merely the advancement of politics by other means. As the US has learned so well in recent conflicts, military achievements don't mean much if the politicians back home turn against the war for some reason. I know this is hard to realize at the moment, but before June 1942, it was REALLY quite dark for the US and Western Allies. They were given defeat after defeat. The Americans and other allies really didn't have anything going for them. They had a lot to defend and not very much to do it with. Unlike the later war, the Japanese held most of the cards. They had more capital ships in theater. Their carrier crews were flat out better than the Americans. They had the land airbases The Zero was still quite a difficult adversary, as the techniques for fighting them were not developed or disseminated yet. To put it bluntly, the Japanese held most of the cards. Midway was a MAJOR boost in confidence. It negated Japan's biggest asset of all. With that, the public and political leaders now had the knowledge that the Americans COULD fight the Japanese and win.

But what would happen had the scenarios anon mentioned happened? The Americans would have been pushed back for months, with no major operations being able to occur in that timespan. The Japanese would still have the initiative, and they would continue to use that initiative, striking as they were best able and most likely delivering defeat after defeat to the Allies. Would the political leadership have had the willpower to continue getting thrashed? Regardless of whether or not we would eventually have more ships than the Japanese, that is the question we need to ask.

Now, a likely outcome even in the event of a peace is that after the war with Germany wraps up, the Allies turn their full attention to Japan with a newly rebuilt fleet and likely win, but that's just one possibility.

>>31206635
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battles_of_Khalkhin_Gol

How are you this fucking clueless about history?

>>31206912
china didn't have oil. there's actually an interesting documentary called "the prize" and it discusses how a large team of Japanese oilmen were sunk by a US submarine and the repercussions that their deaths had. They were brought to indonesia to restore the oil production but with their death, Japan lacked the specialize technicians during war to boost indonesia oil production.

>>31207151
>>31207189

And what was Japan going to do when more than a dozen carriers show up on their doorstep just a year later?

War is an extension of politics by other means, but Pearl Harbor gave Roosevelt unlimited political capital to do whatever was needed to win.

Think about this, the declaration of war against Japan was passed through the senate 82:0 and 388:1 in the house. That's a much higher percentage than ratified the war against Germany in WW1 (82:6 in the senate, 373:50 in the house). The US lost 50,000 people in WW1, even if every marine on gaudalcanal died and every ship in TF-17 sunk, that's less than 15:000 men.

What else? the US knew it was building a fleet 6 times larger than their pre war fleet, it knew it had roughly 15 million men in reserve, and it knew Japan didn't have the resources to match a tenth of that.

>>31207447
You have to remember that politicians are not rational creatures. If their emotions or political wellbeing tell them to do something they will do it. The declaration of war occurred after Japan had launched a surprise attack on the US and crippled its main fighting arm. Congress was rightfully pissed off, and the vote reflects this. The only question is how long that will lasts. Faced with defeat after defeat and no victories, would Congress see fit to win the war? Further, political capital is a term which doesn't really apply to a situation wherein everyone had a unified outlook on it. Roosevelt didn't have to call in any favors or use his powers of persuasion in order to convince people to declare war on Japan. How long would Congress's nerve hold? Would they still be convinced that war was necessary after they lost practically all footholds in the Pacific farther West than Hawaii and farther East than India? If that was the case, it would have been significantly more bloody to reconquer the Pacific, as land based airpower is actually HUGELY important.

In any case, I've got to run for several hours. I'll respond in four hours or so.

>>31207447
>And what was Japan going to do when more than a dozen carriers show up on their doorstep just a year later?
That's funny, how do their gain the experience of knowing Carriers are way to go without having Coral Sea or similar battles happen? Or all the experiences they learned from the Wildcat fighting the Zero and incorporated them into the Hellcat? Hell their most actual experience would come from Buffalo's and P-40's.

Your also looking at a very possible portion of Australia or even Hawaii being occupied by Japan Forces at this point, further weakening the ABDA forces as Japan has had a large time to consolidate, reinforce, and fortify positions.

Again the most likely Scenario is truce that last until the fall of Germany and then combined world stomp of Japan by allied forces with possible inclusion of Soviet Forces.

>>31207559


Your also looking at a very possible portion of Australia or even Hawaii being occupied by Japan Forces at this point, further weakening the ABDA forces as Japan has had a large time to consolidate, reinforce, and fortify positions.

Invade Australia with what exactly?

The IJN started WW2 with less than 100,000 marines, while Australia alone would mobilize about a half million. That's not counting any possible American reinforcements.

The IJN would then have to pull men from the IJA for a possible invasion of Australia, and once there, it would have to keep those men supplied, and I hope you know the IJN's logistics capability (it's shit).

Oahu and even Midway were safe from Japanese invasion, because they simply didn't have the logistical capability to support an invasion force that far from their pre-war bases.

Case in point, Japan brought a single Marine battalion to invade Midway, which was garrisoned by 3 US marine battalions. Right off the bat you can tell the problem of trying to pull an amphibious invasion against an opponent 3 times more numerous. Said marine battalion was killed almost to a man later on Guadalcanal when they Banzai charged a US marine company at Henderson field.

>>31203489
But attacking the Soviets would have been a suicide run for Japan as I said before, and would have only helped Germany in the short run IF attacking the Soviet Union made Stalin freak out and make more mistakes to help Germany win

The Japs best and most realistic plan was for them to attack the European colonies for oil only

>>31207234
That was Zhukov and his meme magic

It would have been more interesting to see the Japs vs Soviets without Zhukov in play

>>31207668
Imperial Japan never allowed Korean soldiers until the very end of the war. Not that it matters too much, but they had over 300,000 Korean men that volunteered for WW2. Most of them were denied until 1945.

>>31202034
I have the technology for time machine. It means I have the technology for plastic surgery.
>Kill Tojo and assume his identity
>Convince the Emperor to ally with Brits. Afterall, Brits and Japs were WWI allies
>Surprise attack German navy at anchor and sink all of their surface fleet
>Join the Royal Navy in transporting troops for the invasion of France in 1942.
>Be on the winning side and get to keep China and Korea as reward.

>>31207969
>Surprise attack German navy at anchor and sink all of their surface fleet
how the fuck are you going to get an army there?

>>31207969
If your face is close enough to Tojo for you to assume his identity, then, well, I feel for you mang.

>>31207969

Way too late for that, Japan and the UK parted ways after the Washington naval treaty in 1922. After that time, there wasn't much of a chance the two nations could get together again.

Starting in the 30's, Japan spat at the UK time and time again, and by 1941, the Rubicon had been crossed long ago.

>>31207780
It would have turned out like Finland.

Massive casualties but eventually by sheer numbers Soviet victory.

>>31202034
SEND IN THE THIRD WAVE. HIT THE FUCKING REPAIR FACILITIES AND OIL DEPOS.!! for the love of jesus start looking into synthetic oils and rubber. also set your depth charges deeper guys and have dedicated convoy escorts. dont underestimate the intelligence department of the u.s. change your codes at least every six months. start on this shit NOW.

>>31207189
>>31207151
>>31207104
very cool post. It would be interesting to read alternative histories regarding Japan, Germany, or the Soviet Union.

>>31206384
Was the Yorktown and Lexington out on missions near Pearl Harbor?

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You're gonna have to go way further back in time than one day before pearl harbor to actually help them.

Go to mid-1939. Stop them from building their stupid ass Yamato battleships. Make them build a repeat of the Shokaku-class carriers instead, with better damage control systems and the capacity to be retrofitted with catapults later on.

Advise them to start working on the Zero's successor immediately. Tell them about Hidetsugu Yagi's work on radio antenna before everyone else in the world BUT them use his design for their radars. Give them a headstart on radar fire control as well.

Show them how to properly use submarines the way the germans did with their wolfpacks, instead of... Whatever they were doing in the original timeline. A few had some lucky breaks, but nothing compared to what they could've done by cutting off supply lines in the Pacific.

A less elitist pilot training program couldn't hurt as well. Make them rotate their air groups in battle so that every pilot gains experience and they don't lose all their aces all at once if (when) shit hits the fan. Organize better supply routes for their troops disseminated in the pacific so that half their army doesn't starve to death. Finally, tell the Army and Navy to get their shit together and start working with each other for once.

Even with all that, they still won't win the war but they might gain an extra six months of agony.

>>31209641

The other thing that might happen is that you would be assassinated, because the IJA/IJN had a nasty habit of assassinating people they didn't like.

One of the ways that the Military Clique obtained so much power is that the IJA/IJN gave implicit permission for it's junior officers to assassinate civilian officials who opposed them, civilian officials who supported the other service branch, or even officers in the other service branch. The prosecution would be cowed into dropping their cases or handing out light sentences by the accusation that they were unpatriotic.

Such outrageous statements like "we should expand our pilot training program to be less elitist", or "We shouldn't build the biggest battleship ever, which by the way is named for out country" is an express ticket to getting a grenade thrown into your place of residence.

I say you needed to go as far back as the late 1920's if you really wanted to make a difference.

>>31209718
OP didn't say anything about having to convince them to listen to reason, so I just assumed they automatically would once they learn I'm from the future. But yeah otherwise I might as well commit sudoku immediately.

>>31206365
Japan would have to leave China for the embargo to be lifted, something Japan wasn't willing to do at all. Espically after the costliness of the Sino-Japanse war as it was. Japan wasn't leaving China unless they were forced out by military intervention, which in turn means that the embargo would never be lifted without some type US military intervention, which would lead you back to what we are trying to avoid in the first place.

Literally the only thing that could have saved Japan would have been them to keep their dicks out of China, abide they're time and make due with what they can. After that, proceed to conquer English, Dutch, and French oil fields since they'd be pretty exhausted from the German conquest in Europe. Then they can proceed with fucking with China and inevitably the US.

>>31210166
>proceed to conquer English, Dutch, and French oil fields since they'd be pretty exhausted from the German conquest in Europe

The US would never allow that. The pacific war was about containing Japanese expansionism as much it was about revenge for "Pearl Harbor." I still believe that Pearl Harbor was just an excuse for the US to enter WW2. Japanese cipher machines had been broken in 1940 and the US military was aware of some attacking being planned by the Japanese.

>>31209641
I have to agree with this anon. The planning and logistics for the Japanese military would have to be revised before the war began. The army and navy had little to no communication between each other and they didn't even share the same type of weapons for their infantry. Japan also needed to focus more on antisubmarine warfare.

However, if Japan was given advanced technology and the populace were to accept the proposed changes and equipment suggestions, they would become a superpower and we would be speaking Japanese now.

>>31209225
>dont underestimate the intelligence department of the u.s. change your codes at least every six months.

This

>>31202034
Just go further back in history and take Hawaii before Americans.

>>31202034
japan as fighting the Chinese primarily
americanizaton of history whites that out

the chinese sustained three times the casualties that the US did, were invaded, something about nanking

ask any american why the japs attacked pearl harbour and they will produce some very naive answers

why would japan attack a country so much larger than themselves, when they were already fighting china, when the US was ahead of them technologically, and when they had no chance of holding ground on the US mainland?

the japenese were smart enough to see that america would attack the strongest asian country no matter who won, which is why the US is attacking china today

the japs should have found allies in SE asia, bullying smaller countries into supply contracts and used their large navy to form a soviet-style bloc, spring boarding into china from the coast

then offered russia half of china, which would incline russia to mass mobile forces on the northern chinese border
with the prospect of fighting russia (which later occurred in the korean war Ithink) the americans might never have committed to fighting japan at all

>>31212525
>US is attacking china today
Shit, when did this happen? I'm signing up now.

>>31212586
the US and china are in a cold war, just as serious as the russian-US cold war

america is fielding allies in SE asia, and moving naval assets into the south china sea

china is setting up missile bases and forming a global power bloc

china will clamp down on the timor sea stopping trafi to the west coast and shit will be on

>>31212525
>the japs should have found allies in SE asia, bullying smaller countries into supply contracts
These nations were all European colonies.

>>31212525
>being this ignorant of history