>https://lenta.ru/news/2016/09/02/s econd/ >"The

>one potato has been deposited in your vatnik bucket

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>>31199029
Russia is a joke, they can't afford to finish the program with an economy the size of fucking Mexico. PakFA is vaporware, like so many other Russian projects.

India just signed a Logistics Supply Agreement with US of A.
>http://atimes.com/2016/08/india-us-to-become-logistical-allies/

They are going to buy the F-35 now, might be one of the largest operators too considering their requirements. Without their money and orders PakFA is FINISHED.

>>31199264
>it's behind Spain
That's just kind of sad.

>>31199264
Economy size is irrelevant.

South Korea has a smaller economy than Brazil and yet Samsung and Hyundai are more technologically advanced than every single Brazilian company in existence. Same applies to Italy, Spain, Australia, Russia and even Mexico.

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>>31199399
Not really

>>31199399
The average age of a Russian engineer is +40.

Over 600,000 Russians, especially young ones, have applied for Visas to the West during sanctions. The long term effects of economic stagnation are crushing Russia.

Russia lacks money to continue funding development for these sorts of projects.

>>31199399

South Korea also has a population of just 50 million to Brazil's 200 million.

It's GDP/Capita is fully 3 time higher than Brazils, which indicates an advanced economy with a high amount of skilled/college educated workers and a strong technology base.

Economy size is very relevant, but it's not the only thing that's relevant.

China has a GDP/Capita that's lower than Brazil, but it's able to get things done due to the sheer size of the economy and concentration of funds into the high tech sector.

>>31199614
What we can learn from China is that you don't actually have to bring the entire population up-to-date; you can just concentrate on important the important parts.

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>>31199482
Brazil is the most pathetic manufacturer industry on earth because 99% of the parts are made by first world countries. Not even South Africa is this pathetic.

>>31199647
You mean exploit poor farmers for cheap labor while either building for or badly duplicating western technologies manufactured there.

>>31200010
Well first I don't care about Brazil but calling embraer less technical then hyundai is just laughable. Second, the 787 has parts outsources all over the world. They do it to help win sales in those countries.

Nominal GDP is generally considered a poor figure for the purpose of making comparisons and also ignores inflation and deflation.

>Lies! They can never build it! They're poor! REEEEE

Ahahaha. Keep at it day/k/are

>>31200548
>attacks basis of analysis
>doesn't provide a replacement methodology

>>31199581
>Over 600,000 Russians, especially young ones, have applied for Visas to the West during sanctions.
Lel, people applying for visa is not the same as them emigrating, moron. The actual emigration from Russia has fallen to record lows. And the people who do emigrate are self-described 'creative personalities', not scientists and engineers.
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-07-06/russia-is-not-dying-from-a-brain-drain

Daily reminder that China is set on a trajectory to world leadership in applied science and electronics somewhere between 2025 and 2030, right about the same time when the current supply of american scientists and engineers will retire without adequate replacement from an ill-educated millenial generation. So the US is 20 trillions in debt, has next to no manufacturing, the education standards keep falling, the majority of birthrates are non-white, and in a decade from now even high-end companies will move abroad. The US will become a literal Brazil, rife with socialism, unemployment, and racial warfare.

>>31200623
Wut?

>>31200898
>Daily reminder that China is set on a trajectory to world leadership in applied science and electronics somewhere between 2025 and 2030
No creativity and no initiative, they copy the shit out of everything but make nothing new. Their top native smartphone is android with hardware and skin that looks like an iPhone. They aren't going to get close to US companies on high-end stuff like Intel, AMD, and nVidia.

> right about the same time when the current supply of american scientists and engineers will retire without adequate replacement from an ill-educated millenial generation.
Retard detected. The problem's that we're graduating TOO MANY people from college based on the faulty theory that you want a degree regardless of applicability to career. So there'll be plenty of STEM field replacements you idiot.

>So the US is 20 trillions in debt
>Government debt is the same as your personal debt

>has next to no manufacturing
Semiconductors, heavy industry, and cars don't count? Just because we've offloaded all the cheap and easy crap to China doesn't mean we've lost manufacturing.

>the education standards keep falling
>DERP

>the majority of birthrates are non-white
>Muh Quiverfull

>and in a decade from now even high-end companies will move abroad
Sure buddy.

>The US will become a literal Brazil, rife with socialism, unemployment, and racial warfare.
>>>/pol/

>>31200623
>day/k/are
>posts at almost midnight
I guess it's day in Russia...

>>31201053
I'm from Hawaii

I find Russian and China militaries impressive especially china's.

>>31201053
Its 11:00am in Moscow right now. Shitposters are on full swing.

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>>31199264
>PakFA is vaporware, like so many other Russian projects.
FCS is a Russian project
2018 Bomber is a Russian project
Boeing YAL-1 is a Russian project
Comanche is a Russian project
EFV is a Russian project
MPC is a Russian project
FRP is a Russian project

>>31199581
Problem with russia is that everyone who isn't a massive vatnik sees russia for what it is and wants to get the fuck out.

>>31200978
>No creativity and no initiative, they copy the shit out of everything but make nothing new
I guess this is how they came up with the only existing quantum satellite.
>there'll plenty of STEM field replacements
Yeah, all STEM graduates will drop their Starbucks jobs and make astonishing careers in astrophysics, kekekek
>Semiconductors, heavy industry, and cars don't count?
Ford, Chrysler and GM build their cars in Mexico. Transmissions for them come from all over the ocean. This is how american auto industry looks like, a half-empty plant in the outskirts of half-abandoned town in Michigan producing engines for cars that will be assembled in fucking Toluca.
It is because since 1971 the US has given up making real products. Americans had transferred all low-end manufacturing industries to China and Mexico. Besides the high-end industries, such as IBM and Microsoft, 70% of working US population moved to finance and service jobs. The US has completely become a hollow state with no real economy sector to offer investors big return.
>pol
Did I divert this thread from military hardware to economy and emigration memes in the first place? /k/ is terminally incapable keeping on board subjects anyway, and automatically flips it's shit over russian gear regardless. Might be due to those abysmally low education standards in US as a matter of fact.

Thread is about lying janes

Burgers try to correct the record and put the subject aside

>>31201251
Janes is british you idiot.

>>31201141
even in hawaii it would have been 9pm

>>31201251
I fail to see how janes is any way related to the article at hand?

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>>31199029
>.ru
neck yourself vatnik

Until the engine is in place on a flying plane we can safely disregard it as vaporware.
Lying to save face is what russia does,official russian government sources are even less reliable than tabloid press.

>>31199029
>their

>>31199029
>Janes
>established military and aerospace news source, widely regarded as the premiere source of information in the field

>lenta.ru
>propaganda outlet directly controlled by Kreml, fired any journalist with any semblance of journalistic integrity back in 2014

Yeah, why would I believe a rag that only serves to push lies from Kreml?
Face it, the PAK-FA is trash, not even the Indians want it any more and China is scooping up the disappointed customers left by the incompetent russian plane industry.
Stick to your Su-27+++, it's as good russia can make and can possibly bully minor nations like Georgia which is all russia is capable of these days.

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>>31201286

>>31201286
>>31201302
Janes posted a video about the development and issues the PAKFA has been having. The video had slides about when it started development (1996 or 97) and has been termed a 4th gen plane wanting to be a 5th gen.

Russia is literally having a 6 year gap between production batches because the technology needed to make it 5th gen is beyond their current ability right now.

>>31201316
>>31201303

Ok, so how did janes lie exactly?

From the looks of it, they have a core on a test stand, that does not mean its airframe ready. "Testing is going as scheduled" does not mean its ready for production, or even flight testing.

>>31201326
Janes never lied. They posted what was publicly distributed from Russian and Indian sources and the vatniks came preaching how they are giant homos and Jane's (a british company) is a "burger" chomper.

Russia's is having issues and the whole program is in trouble and more money is needed. India is calling out Russia's shit and is pulling their feet from the fire.

Russia cannot go beyond 4th gen technology simply because the requirements are beyond their ability. They need 6 years to get the basics.

>>31201336
I honestly think china, while a little better, is in the same basic boat as russia with their J-20.

The difference is, is that its not an export bird, so we dont get the viewpoint of buyers. They are also notoriously tight lipped about everything.

>>31201353
Right now I am currently wondering why the fucking vatnik homo brigade came into /k/ screaming about a video no one even heard of or viewed until they moaned about it. THEN we started calling out their bs.

Literally vatniks shoot themselves in the fucking foot all the time.

>>31201353
china is in a better position because they have a working economy and the US doesn't completely hate them

>>31199029
>.ru
>their
Rly makes u think. . .

>>31201209
>he fell for the 'manufacturing is the only real economy meme'

ever heard of a service economy m8?

>>31201384
Yes, but they still need pure time to catch up, and the US is not exactly sitting still.

The J-20 is almost a mirror of problems of the pak-fa. Intirm engine, no dometic critical reviews, worse, no public domestic review of the program itself, very large bird with small internal loadouts, i can go on and on.

>>31199264
>India just signed a Logistics Supply Agreement with US of A.
Nice! India was associated with the Soviet Union back in the days.

>>31199581
Also, the sanctions is forcing Russia to spend money on biotech, because they can't import the same foods. And biotech is really a shaky business for Russia, because Lysenko basically ruined it back in the days.

>>31200672
The first question would be what do you want to compare?

If you want to compare the standard of living PPP would be way more effective.

>>31201534
>PPP would be way more effective.

Wew laddy.

Haveing a gorllian poor people does not make a rich country

>>31201576
That post doesn't make sense.

>>31201622
What exactly do you think PPP is?

>>31201534
PPP is used to compare purchasing power of a imaginary basket of consumer goods.
Military reaserch is not consumer goods, there is next to no correlation between the two.

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>>31200623
Pretty much. PAK-FA threads are full of yanks who will viciously attack anyone who has the gall to suggest they aren't the only country who has engineers.

>>31201881
It's more that people call bullshit when a country with 10% of the resources and has suffered from 20 years of brain drain, corruption and decay suddenly claims they are on level and even surpass the US in ability to develop and produce new military hardware.

>>31201881
>>31200623
The issue for Russia is that they lack the industrial base to produce what they really need to put a full 5th generation fighter into production, and they lack the economy to develop that industry.

The point is that until Russia can unfuck their economy, they're just gonna get left behind by everybody else. Our civilization is past the point of being able to go to the other guy, watch how he does something, then copy it well enough that it works. You have to build the tools that build the tools that build the tools that build the product. You can't just shortcut that shit without the another nation basically doing it for you.

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>>31199029
>for years hear about how the pakfa engines are going to be brand new designs and have nothing in common with the su-27 variants
>going to be better and require far less maintenance than previous designs, going to be equivalent to western engines
>going to be super stealthy and not even require an s-duct
>all this is why the engines are taking so long to make
>turns out it's just a su-35 engine with different exhaust duct

>>31201914
>Russia can unfuck their economy

Well, it will never going to happen. Russians should just give up. They wasting billions of dollars on absolutely useless projects, like PAK FA, while their population is starving.

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>>31201843
>Military reaserch is not consumer goods
Because you pay to your researches with what? Smell of freedom? Military research of one depends mostly on materials and people from that country. People receive payment in that country's currency, materials are bought in that country's currency and everything else, mostly, is paid by that country's currency. Change of Yuan\Rouble\Iranian Rial course will not change price of research same way as it changes GDP number in wikipedia. Price WILL rise, because some equipment and parts can be bought only in US\Europe, but that price increase will not be linear. Their military industry does not depend on price of dollar as their civilian industry, because their military industry does not buy as much equipment for dollars as civilian industry. And military industry has no problem with credits taken in dollars, because of US sanctions. No credit - no problems. Government will provide money with symbolic interest rate
>>31201914
>lack the economy to develop that industry.
You have no idea what are you talking about. Suchoi corporation is a part of United Aircraft Corporation and this company produces and sells to Russia and other countries a lot of planes.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/overall-us-military-aircraft-exports-strong-in-2015-423939/
https://theaviationist.com/2014/12/17/russia-produces-more-combat-planes/
And now with suctions they receive more profit than they used to, because they operate in currency of their own country but sell planes for dollars.

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>>31199029

New engine installation went exactly as planned

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>>31202080
your pic is the old 5th prototype
the new engine was installed in the 6th
lurk more

>>31201997
>I don't understand basic macroeconomics

Not surprising coming from a "former" communist state

>>31202104
>one potato has been deposited in your vatnik bucket

J-20 > F-35 > T-50

>>31201534
Both nominal and PPP GDP are awful indicators of standard of living. GDP per Capita can get closer, but can still get inflated by a few rich individuals.

If you want to compare standards of living, just looking at the amount of money nations have is a poor way to go about it.

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>>31202126
>some one point out the trust
>he must be vatnik/AIDF
so the rumor about neo /k/ is right

>>31202126
Yes, this is all butthurt burgers can do. Post memes. Their like liberals gun grabbers, muh feels when they encounter facts that does not agree with they're propaganda.

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Russia stronk!

Russophobu idi na hui!

>>31202156
>muh feels when they encounter facts that does not agree with they're propaganda

Yeah just like anyone who is critical of Putin ends up disappearing in mysterious circumstances. At least over here we can call Obama a nigger without fearing for our lives

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>>31202126
>vatnik

>Hurrrr if I see someone discussing Russian advancements, they MUST be backwater Putinbots and shills!

Well done, thanks for your daily contribution towards making /k/ a little bit more shit than usually.

>>31202132
Accurate

>2016
>even after claiming it for years
>China still didn't buy a single Su-35

>>31202204
>saying anything declaritive about the j-20

Shill spotted.

>>31202139
US is 3rd world

>>31201997
>No credit - no problems. Government will provide money with symbolic interest rate
>we will print money!
As expected of a former commie failure of a state.
By your reasoning Zimbabwe or Venezuela could produce unlimited military might, both have large natural resources and in the grand scheme of things, wages of foreign engineers are relatively minor when developing military hardware.

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>>31202143
>air ducts straight as nails
Gets me every time

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>>31202486
They don't have full cycle of production. Their military vehicles will require import engines, import electronic components, import armour e.t.c. All that cost dollars and final price of vehicle will be direct linked to prise of dollar. Russia, China, Iran, France and maybe Sweden has more or less (key word here is more or less) full cycle of production.
>Government will provide money with symbolic interest rate
is not
>print money
Because it is just government who provides dollars to UAC instead of commercial bank. It is not printed rubles. It is freely convertible currency. UAC needs them to buy import production equipment. That's how end cost of all Russian planes receives "dollar part" but it is not that high. And that dollar part is dropping because they are switching to Russian-made stuff now.
Russian fleet program was fucked because of rouble drop, not aviation. Percent of import components in their ships are high. Aviation program and tanks are more or less (key word again) fine.

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>>31202753
>has no idea how economics works

We know.

>>31202143
Hello newfag.

>>31202793
How much planes LM build in 2015?

>>31202817
>How many

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>>31202817
>dat engrish
>dat deflection

>>31202824
>dat pic
>dat filename

Goddamnit, anon. That's the second fucking time this year.

>>31202753
>They don't have full cycle of production
>Government will provide money with symbolic interest rate
What prevents them from using the same "economic mechanisms" russia would be using to develop self sufficient industries given that the only external cost is competent engineers from the west?
>Government will provide money
Is more or less the exact same thing as print money in this case, not a single government has the amount of free capital just sitting about unless you want russia to tap into the currency/gold reserves which would be Bad with capital B economically speaking. Like really major bad even back when the oil price was >$100, before the russian economy took a major thrashing from falling oil prices and sanctions.
Russia is not a command economy anymore.

>>31202886
>not a single government has the amount of free capital just sitting about
$392bln of Foreign-exchange reserves.
>Russia is not a command economy anymore.
Officially - yes. But if you look closer to their military industry, you'll see that it's all concentrated in "united corporations". And biggest shareholder in all of them is Russian Federation. Not military economic is kinda free market and all that stuff, but military and nuclear industries are under complete control of government and they receives a lot of money from federal budget. In the end - Russia has 27% of world weapon market. I'm pretty sure that Suchoi can develop PAK-FA without government contract at all, only for their own money. Actually, they did that with Su-47, it was their own project. UVZ develops and sells a lot of projects on their own too, without contracts from Russian ministry of Defence.

>>31199029
I can't tell if this plane will turn out good or utter shit, but dear god does it look good to me!

>>31199029
>.ru

no.

>>31202978
It is just an evolutionary improvement. Certainly not worthy of any hype.

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>>31202978
>but dear god does it look good to me!
Reminds me of pic related every time I see it.
Someone dropped this in an early PAK-FA thread and now I can't unsee it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfpTDOAfj7Y

>>31202817
50 or 60, I can't remember.

>>31202988

>implying only Western sources are thrustworthy and everything else is propaganda.

>>31203027
>literally no such implication made

stay mad vatnik

>>31202886
>>31202965
In practice Russia has been a Kleptocracy since the fall of the USSR.

>>31203027
I think someone had a comparison in an earlier thread that in the US, 80% of people get their news from multiple sources and comp[are different types for conflict, while in Russia the majority just watch the (state-run) news channels.

>>31203033

>.ru
>no

This literally states that anon is going to defy every information disclosed on the site because it has a Russian domain.
>It's Russian, it must be propaganda.

>>31202104
Those are the same AL-41s. Russia is incapable of developing modern engines. Just look how shitty they are doing in the commercial sector.

>>31203069
probably because 99 percent of .ru news is owned by the kremlin

All you have to do is look what the indians are doing. Pivoting towards western made gear.

>>31203019
53 in 2016, bringing the total up to 218 IIRC.

LRIP is scheduled to end with a shift to FRP in 2019, by which time 518 F-35s will have been built.

http://www.defenseone.com/business/2016/05/f-35-production-set-quadruple-massive-factory-retools/128120/
>This year, Lockheed will build 53 F-35s here and at another assembly facility in Italy, pushing the worldwide total past 200. That’s more than the Air Force has F-22 Raptors.
>By 2020, one year after the Fort Worth plant hits its full 17-jet-per-month stride, there will be more than 600 F-35s, including nearly 180 sent to U.S. allies.
That plant is just one of several producing F-35s.

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>Russians actually build prototypes to make sure the design's sound before going into production

lol they can't even afford to start full production of an untested system, only to find out that it doesn't work, with dozens built, and then have to go back and try to fix the ones already built while simultaneously changing the production process mid-build so the new ones won't also be broken

>>31203069
Meanwhile, in the OP

>Their not even objective journalists, their NATO mouthpieces.

Going to shit on a well established and trusted military reporting site for no reason other than being buttfurious and that one single biased source disagrees with them

Nice try vatnigger.

>>31203027
No matter how much Whataboutism you throw around, it doesn't change the fact that Free Press is a dream dead for almost a decade now in Russia.

Stay mad, my vodka pickled friend.

>>31203019
Thx. UAC delivered 157 planes to customers in 2015, 159 in 2014.

>>31203127
Oh, I thought we were just talking about 5th gen.

>>31203127
Which customers? Russia? Is anyone outside of Russia buying Russian made junk anymore?

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>>31203114
>It is OK. Russia can afford to lag a few decades in fighter technology
>We actually wanted this. We wouldn't spend more if we could.

>>31203149
No, about overall. Numbers about F-35 deliverers can be found easily.
>The 45 F-35 deliveries include:
>• 26 F-35A - U.S. Air Force
>• 2 F-35A - Royal Norwegian Air Force (first two)
>• 1 F-35A - Aeronautica Militare (first Italian Air Force)
>• 8 F-35B - U.S. Marine Corps
>• 8 F-35C – 4 U.S. Navy /4 U.S. Marine Corps

>>31203112
>Pivoting towards Western made gear.
Yes, India also operates Western equipment, but about their newer projects...

What is S-400
What is BrahMos
What is Su-30MKI
What is INS Vikramaditya
What is MiG-29K
What is FGFA

>>31203175
Right, most of that was bought over 15 years ago. They have stopped buying Russian gear.

Btw they are really pissed off at Russia bout those Mig-29s.

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>>31203113
>TFW in 2019, more F-35s total will be in existence than all Su-27 family aircraft in Russian service

>>31203127
Weren't we talking about F-35s? Shit, Boeing alone produces over 40 737s a month if we're just talking aircraft production.

>>31203193
Just wait for the UAC research base on mars.

>>31203193
Boeing and Airbus owns civilian market. We're talking about military production.

>>31203174
Do you think LM only produces F-35s?

>>31199264
This. Russia is an empty shell.

I want the shills to leave /k/

>>31203211
How many of the 95 planes delivered in 2015 were yak 130s?

>>31203233
No, that's why I am asking about overall numbers of planes produced by LM in 2015.

>>31203183
What happened with the MiG-29s?

>>31199029
>Janes BTFO

At least they're not as bad as Debkafile.
>http://www.debka.com/article/24909/A-Chinese-aircraft-carrier-docks-at-Tartus-to-support-Russian-Iranian-military-buildup-

>>31203252
The production quality of the Russian made Mig-29k is so bad it's incapable of being a reliable aircraft carrier based jet.

http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/naval/naval-aviation/2016/08/10/india-mig-29k-aircraft-navy-defects/88510782/

India will have to buy the F-35 to replace it as there are not other options for their old carrier.

>>31203276
Topkek. Vatniks on suicide watch.

>US is already drawing up plans for 6th gen while the most Russia can muster is an underpowered, overbudget """stealth""" 4.5th gen Flanker variant.

What exactly gives Russians the unwarranted sense of self-importance? Is it the large landmass filled with snow and no infrastructure? Is it the huge military filled with legacy equipment manned by the unmotivated? The trillion dollar economy hanging by the single thread of fossil fuels?

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>>31201680
>PPP

PPP is preferable for military expenditures because Russian jets are paid for in Rubles, the pilots fly for Rubles, the engineers work for Rubles, not Dollars, in Russia a Ruble has around 80 % more purchasing power than outside of Russia - you simply get more goods and services for it, thus you get more military gear for it or more research and experimentation.

>>31203127
Do you have a source on that? According to Janes UAC delivered 124 combat aircraft in 2015.

http://www.janes.com/article/61695/russia-s-uac-reveals-aircraft-deliveries-for-2015

>>31203308
lulz. If I'm a great engineer, why would I stay in Russia and make rubles when I can move to the USA and make dollars?

>>31203252
They find flaws and defects in planes before every large tender. They fucked French brains for 3 years in MMRCA contract and buy 36 planes instead of 126 originally planned. It's their way to drop prices and force seller to transfer technologies.

>>31203305
http://sputniknews.com/military/20160302/1035650866/russia-seventh-generation-fighter.html

Meanwhile, Russia is working on 7th gen uav fighters with swarm technology where they can build a trillion of them for the price of the f-35 program!

Fatniks would be on suicide watch but the rope breaks every time they try to hang themselves lol

>>31203323
Because your family is there?
Because you have grandpas inherited land there?
Because they actually pay you well for your services unlike the common street vatnik?
Because you're actually a vatnik yourself?

This list can go on and on.

Or simply... your Russian education and academic achievments is not accepted in the USA.

>>31202965
>392bln of Foreign-exchange reserves.
And any economist would tell you it's major levels retarded to spend that on military projects that will only be a major net drain on the economy.
>UAC
But every other company and business is not, the shift to capitalistic economy has also permeated every part of russian defense industry.

>>31203305
Weak, easily bruised and overdeveloped sense of machismo.

>>31203338
It's years later after delivery and they can only operate at 20 percent because the engines and fly by wire systems are so full of defects they are fucking worthless.

>>31203248
These are just the manned aircraft LM produces:
http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/what-we-do/aerospace-defense/aircraft.html

It also produces standoff munitions, space vehicles, UAVs, ships, and ground vehicles.

The F-35 does not even represent a majority of current projected production contracts.

>>31203323
If suddenly USD and Ruble traded places, along with the apartment prices and all, how would you rate your chances of successfully moving to another country along with your family, learning a foreign language and getting a high-paying job in the defense sector, especially considering the country you'd be moving to already has a bunch of well-educated engineers? Not every engineer is a von Braun or has a briefcase or a head full of state secrets you'd like to trade.

>>31203384
>http://www.janes.com/article/61695/russia-s-uac-reveals-aircraft-deliveries-for-2015
Oh, and I should point out that Northrup, Boeing and several other companies all build and have active production contracts for manned and UAV aircraft for the US military and the rest of NATO/allies.

>>31203350
>Because they actually pay you well for your services unlike the common street vatnik?
No. It doesn't pay well at all.

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>>31203347
>http://sputniknews.com/military/20160302/1035650866/russia-seventh-generation-fighter.html
>Fifty-five PAK FA jets will be delivered to the Russian Air Force by 2020
>Viktor Bondarev said that the Sukhoi PAK FA, also known as T-50, will be able to outduel America’s F-22 and F-35 fifth generation fighter jets.

Man, vatniks are fucking hilarious

>>31203402
I belive we need proofs.

Though i suspect Sukhois payroll is not publicly available.

>>31203248
There aren't total numbers, certainly not for export. 5 minutes of research gives me 55 F-35s, 124 Blackhawks (all domestic, can't find export numbers), and 14 C-130s. Besides the 21 export F-35s this is all domestic and doesn't cover export sales, including obviously models they only now produce for export, such as the F-16.

>>31203310
Yep, 159 overall produced, 126 combat aircraft. Since I want to compare them with LM I dunno if their Hercules are considered as military or civilian.
>>31203241
12
>>31203368
>But every other company and business is not
UAC
United Shipbuilding Corporation (They're in sooo dip shit now)
RosAtom (40% of the world uranium enrichment services market)
Roscosmos State Corporation for Space Activities
Uralvagonzavod (tanks)
Rostec which contains such companies as
Kalashnikov Concern
United Engine Corporation (pretty obv. what they do)
Russian Helicopters company
>As of 2015, Russian Helicopters enterprises produced around 23% of the global military helicopter fleet, 32% of the global combat helicopter fleet, and 43% of the medium-heavy transport helicopter fleet.

And so on. All together they create almost full cycle of production of all kind of military hardware and machinery. All of them are state-owned or have State as biggest shareholder.

>>31199029
Man, even if the T-50 delivered on every single promise the manufacturer has given for it, it'd still be inferior to the F-22 and F-35, and there are already more of both aircraft built right now then there will ever be T-50s.

>>31203350
>be 25 yo, fresh from the university with a master in engineering
>lots of debt
>no kids
>probably no gf
>moved away from parents
>option to stay in russia, live in commie block, get paid a modest sum
>option to move to US/EU and get paid more than twice as much, live better, can move back later to russia when you have the dosh to live much better and provide a better living for your parents

You have no idea how many russian engineers I've met who willingly abandon any sense of patriotism and duty to russia when they get paid better, get to live better and a possibility to provide for those they care for.
You see precious few western engineers in russia.

>>31203487
>UAC
UAC is major level exposed to the international market, you can not in any sense think that the particular project of the PAK-FA will be isolated.
Remember that India is critical investor in the whole deal, the project relies on Poo money.

>>31201209
>I guess this is how they came up with the only existing quantum satellite.

That sat is just a laser link for two earthbound labs experimenting with quantum comms. Nothing quantum about it.

[spoiler]the US tried to launch the same thing two years ago but Antares had to go boom[/spoiler]

>>31203394
But it's not sudden. These guys grew up, and went to school knowing the best way to make money as an engineer is in the west.

Stop pretending this is a last ditch thing. There's a reason there is a huge brain drain out of Russia. The ones left are shit tier engineers and managers. All over 40+.

>>31203530
>Remember that India is critical investor in the whole deal,
No, you're an idiot. Aerospace force of Russian Federation is being funded by Ministry of Defense, not export revenues.

>>31203487
And they keep losing customers that aren't Russia.

>>31203617
lol no. Without Indian cash the T-50 is done. There's no one willing to buy that piece of shit even at a deep discount.

>>31203632
You are an idiot is all I have to say. T-50's domestic purchases and Indian export variant are two different contracts. Plane goes into series and RuAF acquires it regardless of success or failure of Indian deal

>>31203632
>Without Indian cash the T-50 is done
No it's not. Suchoi developed Su-47 and began PAK-FA program without ANY money. Only their own cash from export and service contracts. They get money from MoD in 2005. They began work on PAK-FA in 2002.

>>31203682
They began development in 1997 or 1998

>>31203492
>Ther are LITERALLY no engineers in Russia! ALL, absolutely everyone is leaving!!

Ok uncle Sam, got it.

>>31203492
>russian students
>debt
Ahahahaha. Ah nigger.

>>31203617
Nope, russia has been sucking miles of Indian dick to have them stay on the project.

>>31203745
Sure seems like it. Russia doesn't even design their own cars anymore.

>>31203662
>two different contracts
>same plane
>half the funding for R&D comes from India

No India, No plane.

>>31203492
You don't even know how hard it is for an inexperienced engineer to find an employer abroad who will recognize his diploma. Getting a tourist visa for more than a week or two to try and meet the employer for the job interview is not really an option either. Hell, I know a Russian guy who got admitted into some university in New-York only to have his student visa request turned down without explanation. It's not as easy as crossing the border. The most reliable way besides having connections is to get a few years of experience in Russia and acquire a few international diplomas before attempting to immigrate. However, by that time people have already grown roots and can't move unless they're extremely ambitious.

>>31203745
>vatniks first strawman argument
Kill yourself

>>31203816
Given that you are an uneducated vatnik, one should not expect you to know that students in russia have to pay for living expenses on their own

>>31204028
I live in yurop, might be different here.
Have met a ton of Russian students and engineers who have emigrated.

>>31201141

Why would you find their militaries impressive when they're way behind the power curve?

>>31204090
>Why would you find their militaries impressive when they're way behind the power curve?
Read that post again. Pay attention to the grammar and diction. Then realize that if he isn't flat out Chinese, he's at least a naturalized citizen somewhere else.

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>>31203992
>>31204024
Oh don't worry my sweet summer child. Funding is the last thing Russian MoD lacks these days.

>>31204117

Fair enough. I mean I was trying to give that anon the benefit of the doubt.

>>31204119
How much of your pic related was actually delivered? I know for damn sure they didn't get 701 brand new armored vehicles.

>>31201187
America has the money to waste R&Ding shit that doesn't pan out.

And unlike Russia, they don't beat their dicks screaming "GAME CHANGER! BTFO! HOW CAN THEY EVEN COMPETE?!" Everytime they so much as make a CG concept model.

>>31204119
>Funding is the last thing Russian MoD lacks these days.

Are you kidding me?

The reason for upgrading MiG-31s and purchasing Su-27 variants is because of the cut back in orders of the PAK-FA.

>>31204078
Yeah I happen to be friends with one who currently works in Berlin. In his case, he was hired by some guy he had met way back when he was still a student in university when he was giving a presentation or something. I also happen to know a middle-aged couple living near Munich, except they're not engineers but well-educated historians, who had also inherited two apartments in Moscow center, which they now rent for enough a sum to cover most of their expenses, but that's a different story. But yeah, I'm sure a big chunk of educated people would move to a first world country of their choice if they were promised a job and some help settling in.

>>31204173
>beat their dicks screaming "GAME CHANGER! BTFO! HOW CAN THEY EVEN COMPETE?!" Everytime they so much as make a CG concept model.
This is literally what America does all the time.

>>31201209

>Yeah, all STEM graduates will drop their Starbucks jobs and make astonishing careers in astrophysics, kekekek

Yeah, should said jobs become available. They are STEM graduates after all, but thanks to a slow economy and a glut of H1B workers they have difficulty finding jobs.

>muh "we don't make anything here anymore" meme
US still manufactures a shit-load of stuff, the reason why manufacturing employment has dropped is due to it becoming more efficient. Robots are cheaper than assembly line workers.

>Ford, Chrysler and GM build their cars in Mexico.
Ford still makes most of their cars in the US, and the Japanese and Koreans (as well as B&W) have outsourced a good portion of their automobile manufacturing to the US.

>>31204182
Your entire post is a non sequitur. T-50 is a dedicated A2A fighter. Mig-31 is an interceptor. How is one supposed to make up for the lack of another is a mystery.

... Unles your tiny prozac induced brainmass had somehow come to the conclusion that T-50 was designed as a jack of all trades like a $1,5 trillion Lockheed disaster.

>>31204423
>US still manufactures a shit-load of stuff
Not to mention shipyards, heavy construction equipment, the truly important semiconductor fabs are all here, and that's ignoring all the smaller CNC/welding and such businesses for high-precision components.

>>31204438
It's hilarious that you're calling the F-35 a disaster while talking as if the T-50 is anywhere near ready to go into production.

Also:
>1.5t
>Already spent
Fuck off.

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>>31204438
>Your entire post is a non sequitur. T-50 is a dedicated A2A fighter. Mig-31 is an interceptor. How is one supposed to make up for the lack of another is a mystery.
>>31204182
>and purchasing Su-27 variants

Perhaps the one with the tiny prozac induced brainmass is you.

>>31204182
>The reason for upgrading MiG-31s and purchasing Su-27 variants is because of the cut back in orders of the PAK-FA.
Another one who does not understand how Russian military industry works (inb4 poorly). They're upgrading MiG-31 to keep 5000 job places in MiG company. They're purchasing Su-27 variants to keep job places and working production line in Irkutsk (14700 employees) and Komsomolsk-na-Amure. Different plants produce different models of Su-27/30. Producing one model on all factories will drop their efficiency, because of different machinery equipment, logistics and stuff.
PAK FA under development in Komsomolsk-na-Amure factory. Not very likely that factory in Irkutsk was modernized for PAK-FA production. Right now it is unknown where it will be build. Are you proposing to stop working production lines on two different plants to build plane that is not ready yet?

>>31204491
...furthermore, if the reason for delayed T-50 is money rather than test of new engines then how does Russia find roubles for magnitude more of new Su-30/35s and Su-34s every year? Your thought pattern is mysterious. But more likely you're just an utter imbecile like majority of people populating this thread.

>>31204438
lol everyone knows that if your jet isn't a jack of all trades it tends to be a failure. Look at the best fighters in any era starting in ww2. Jack of all trades.

>>31204571
How many new SU-35s does russia make a year? 2-3? SU-34s? 2-3?

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>>31204601
>How many new SU-35s does russia make a year?
10-18
>SU-34s?
18
66 or 70 Suchois of all modifications per year.

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>Vatniks parading around an aircraft and touting it as an "F-22 killer"
>not even the poo-in-loos want it

I actually feel embarrassed for the Russians.

>>31201997
>You have no idea what are you talking about.
Well, considering Russia is broke as fuck, who pays for the advanced composites factories, the advanced alloy foundries or the infrastructure required to support those things? Certainly no country in the west is gonna sell them the equipment they need to create those composites and alloys necessary for a proper modern military, much less give it to them. Even then, they don't have even half of the materials science breakthroughs of the past thirty years the west has.

It's a cumulative system, each technology and tool/material builds on the last. That shit requires time, effort, ingenuity and massive amounts of money.

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>>31202528
>muh radar blockers.

>>31204682
>Russia is broke as fuck
>who pays
27% of global weapon market. US controls 33%.
Russia is not that isolated as CNN wants you to think.

>>31204641
lol citation. They have built like 35 su-35s in the last 10 years.

>>31204698
>not understanding what s-ducts can do for RCS
Your potato has been revoked. Back to Latvia.

>>31204817
They build 10 or 14 last year.

>>31204881
that's just not true

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>>31204943
Welp, it is.

>>31203338

To be fair the French are also not the best suppliers. Israel found that out the hard way in 67.

>>31203114
>Thinking that the F-35 is in full production
>Thinking that it was ever in full production

Go and stay go, Yevgeny.

>>31205194
There's already two productions lines open on two different continents with a 3rd one being built.

>>31204419
Uh, no.

>>31205257
It's still in low rate initial production. An anon from earlier mentioned that it will stay in LRIP until like 2018.

>>31205257
It's just a difference in scale. There are more F-35s being built per year in LRIP then there are Typhoons/Rafales/Gripens/Su-35s built per year (individually not all together), despite them being in full production, because the end target is far larger.

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>>31204825
>not understanding obvious sarcasm.

>>31204438
>literally doesn't know that interception is a role
>doesn't understand that air superiority fighters are better at interception duties

full fucking retard