Why hasn't the military developed drugs to enhance

If you broke it, you bought it.

The DoD has already broken enough human beings in the last 15 years to keep them busy for the next 50.

>>31088119
Blood doping, go-pills, and Rip-Its all exist.

>>31088119
Don't need it, just PT more man damn.

whats the point? why spend billions on researching how to make grunts be stronger and shit when most of the work gets done by bullets and vehicles?

also why not just give them a fucking rude mech suit to fight in?

>>31088119
Adderal

>>31088143
make them more accurate, run faster, carry more loads, heightened senses and all

basically a SPARTAN program

PcP?

>>31088119
I thought fighter pilots did take drugs

Modafinil is the USAF go-to for awareness agents.

>>31088470
Even clinton is using it

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Everyone was on some sort of Amphetamine during ww2.

>>31088456
they do, it's modafinil, an anti-narcolepsy medicine

>>31088119
Caffeine is a drug breh

Mefloquine is a herd-mindset inducing drug which also raises aggression levels

just pleasant military side effect of fending off the malarias

>>31088119
They have, they just don't advertise it

>>31088187
That can be all acheived without modifying the human.

Its way easier to make an exo-suit than to play with genetics.

>>31088119
>Why hasn't the military developed drugs to enhance combat effectiveness?

They have, I'm fairly certain that every major world power has made use of some serious stimulants in the past.

If you're asking why we haven't turned people into supersoldiers it's because real life isn't a comic book.

>>31091021
Depends what kind of Exo suits are you talking here? Are you talking something like halo where it is basically a suit or something like cod advanced warfare where it is literally an outer skeleton?

They tried LSD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWodyapGNxI

>>31091021
>Its way easier
More like socially acceptable.
>>31091003
This.

>>31088119
They should just let troops bosh steds instead of forcing some faggot ass stigma against them reinforced by uneducated, ignoramus shits

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>>31088522
>they handed these out to kids sometimes.

Aren't they?

Isn't it just a matter of refining the drugs to the point where the Drug Cost : Soldier Ratio makes it worth chemically enhancing current numbers of soldiers vs. just training more of them?

And keeping the side effects down so Combat Effectiveness Enhancement : Soldiers 'Lost' isn't in the negatives?

>>31088119
What is steroids?

They had a program in the 90s called Treadstone.

>>31091447
>bosh steds

Is that bong for take steroids?

>>31091513

>tfw no Hermann Göring Chocolatefabrics anymore

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>>31091666
>Checked Satan
>Mfw my name is actually David Webb

>>31088119
Well the nazis already made one.

>>31088119
>Spec Ops don't take steroids
>Pilots don't take amphetamines
Yeah. Combat drugs. Nobody's ever used those before.

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>>31091513
METH. CHOCOLATE.

>>31088119
Why develop new stuff when speed and steroids exist?

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>>31091447
>some faggot ass stigma against them reinforced by uneducated, ignoramus shits
>muh roids are gud 4 u

lel, let's talk 20 years later familia.

>>31088522
This.

You can't convince me the military doesn't already administer low-level performance enhancing drugs to grunts and shit already on the down-low. I felt great in the military. I was capable of doing things I never thought I could have before. Nothing crazy, obviously. I wasn't lifting cars or lobbing grenades 100 meters, but some of the PT shit I did or just general tolerances for pain, etc surprised the shit out of me. Not even 2 months out of the military I was already feeling like garbage again. I didn't stop PTing either. And I still drank and ate healthy. 3 years out now and I don't even know how I did any of the shit I did while in the military. I used to whole days of doing dumb physical shit in the dead heat without even getting tired. Now I feel like I need a nap every 2 hours. Again, I haven't stopped lifting or doing cardio on a pretty regular basis.

Drugs, man.

>>31091447
>>31092384
I know a lot of people even in my shop do test boost, teen, etc. If done right there are no long-term side effects.

>>31092515

Test boosters, creatine, thermos are not steroids.

>>31092641
Meant tren, autocorrect to teen. Test boosters and tren are both steroids that artificially increase testosterone, like all anabolic.

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>>31092641
>Creatine
>Natty
Look at this cretin.

>>31092766
>>31092947

I mean, yes. Technically speaking, they are "steroids" but not in the sense that most roids are roids.

>>31088119
>MK Ultra

>>31088187

>make them more accurate
computer-assisted targeting system can do this.

>run faster
vehicules are fine for this, be it a humvee or a choper.
Some even add some protection.
And if it brokes, you just have to order some spare parts.

>carry more loads
vehicules (and exoskeletons) can already do it

>heightened senses and all
computer-assisted sensors already do it

>>31088125
Yeah most people don't really take into account that tons of people just do their 4 years and gtfo. Having a million disability claims for permanent metabolic/organ damage from whatever low-cost performance enhancers they decide to use would be a nightmare.

Not to mention once the services get a reputation for fucking people up it's hard to shake that stigma. Things like joint wear/damage from being treated like a pack animal and PTSD from "zomg I herd a boom!" are already known quantities for new recruits.

>>31093062
Can't rely on vehicles for everything. Saying something like "order some spare parts" is easy in the U.S. but in Afghanistan we had to wait 4 months for a CV axle. Ultimately it's just more shit to break.

>>31091513
War is hell
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHX7q061e1E

>>31088131
how i pass my PT test

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>>31091513
They're still around today, albeit in slightly different form.

>>31091666
You know the Bourne movies aren't real life right?

>>31091513
>>31095305
Those are most certainly not the same thing, schokakola has caffeine, panzerschokolade had methamphetamine.
Also,
http://www.ww2f.com/topic/55292-finnish-military-forces-1941-44-mountains-of-heroin-morphine-and-speed/
>Heroin was a wartime panacea, which was used for pain, cough, arthritis, and muscle aches. Medics carried two ampules of cocaine in their bags, in addition to four ampules of morphine, 30 opium tablets, and 30 heroin tablets. Those on the front line were issued a package of five heroin pills.

>>31088119
Drugs can't do as much as powered armor could, and powered armor doesn't obliterate the soldier's body with continued use. If you tried to lift as much as a powered exoskeleton could, even doped up on drugs, you would simply obliterate the muscles in your arms. There are some genes which might be usable in genetic modification, genes which greatly improve muscle growth and bone density, lung capacity, etc, however as far as I know they are only being investigated for uses in therapy for those with crippling physical ailments. Altering normal healthy individuals would face a huge push back from moralizers and certain members of both the conservative and democratic parties. (you know the ones, the idiots who are against stem cell research or against GMO food or vaccination). I don't think they'd react very well to "oh yeah lets fuck around with our soldiers genetics and feed them supplies of drugs to alter their bodies and psychology".

>>31088119
>Why hasn't the military developed drugs to enhance combat effectiveness?
supply lines

>>31094255

i'm gonna play this in Red Orchestra 2

>>31088119
They're called amphetamines.

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>>31095925
>There are some genes which might be usable in genetic modification, genes which greatly improve muscle growth and bone density, lung capacity, etc, however as far as I know they are only being investigated for uses in therapy for those with crippling physical ailments. Altering normal healthy individuals would face a huge push back from moralizers and certain members of both the conservative and democratic parties. (you know the ones, the idiots who are against stem cell research or against GMO food or vaccination). I don't think they'd react very well to "oh yeah lets fuck around with our soldiers genetics and feed them supplies of drugs to alter their bodies and psychology".

>>31095925
Non-germline gene therapy would be sweet for the military. They could modify all they want and there's no effective on anybody else in the population, it doesn't pass to children, etc.

>>31088119
>Meth

Only for very short term sparse use though and even then it's a pretty shit tier drug.... Unless you're using it for it's intended purpose which involves staying awake.

>>31099439
>Hey idiot.

Sounds like you need to research Monsanto, agent orange side effects, fluorosilicic acid, sodium fluorosilicate, and sodium fluoride. Google the side effects of those chemicals.

Fluoride Action Network |

>>31095647
What a time to be at war aye?

>>31092515
>Bullshit.

>>31092435
It's the fluoride dude. Fluoride in the tap water has some really nasty side effects. Blame the 1% for fundinf the depopulation plan, agenda 21.

>>31101659
>>31093031
>>31092384
Confirmed for fat lords perpetuating the same meme logic
>you use steroids one time your heart explodes as your face swells up full of pus and acne.

>>31101726

Cool strawman, but it doesn't refute the fact anabolic steroid abuse side effects are real, well documented and every single guy who suffers from them thought at one point he "knows what he's doing."

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>>31101668
>impurifying our precious bodily fluids

>>31088178
They switched that out with modafinil for pilots I read.

What was that shit they were taking in generation kill?

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>>31088119
Why would the military need to develop steroids and uppers when both those things already exist and are readily available?

>>31101742
>fact anabolic steroid abuse side effects are real, well documented and every single guy who suffers from them thought at one point he "knows what he's doing."
>every single guy who suffers from them thought at one point he "knows what he's doing."
Case and point, people are fucking stupid. As are you if you don't legitimately believe that AAS can be used safely and effectively while mitigating even slight side effects.

>>31101726
I'm not fat, I just work out and eat right. Don't need steroids. Also if you think those things are good for you you are truly delusional.

>>31088135

This. Healthy recruits are widely available, training improves discipline and mental toughness, and the real distinguishing factor for effectiveness is training and morale.

So you can get "good enough" effects by having your troops do something that vastly improves their combat readiness in lots of other ways, too. Something cheap and whose risks the public accepts.

And, incidentally, the military does invest money into researching performance enhancers. And even has a few available for use (caffeine being the silly obvious example). Notice with the stuff they have that they look for stuff to improve alertness and situational awareness, reduce dependence on sleep, and reduce panic. IE enhancing the "mental toughness" stuff that PT helps foster.

>>31101831

Military restricted drugs ensures loyalty. Look at Gundam SEED's Extended and Druggie pilots

>>31101788
the old ripped fuel formula. mainly just ephedrine and caffeine.

>>31103791
>The weeb goes full retard
Go figure.

>>31103768
PT standards for front line troops are already pretty high compared to other times in history. What really needs to happen is that he combat load needs to be reduced instead of finding chemical or mechanical ways to minimize the impact of increasing it.

>>31091513
MMM Schokolade

They do
It's in the food and MREs

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>>31088119
>Why hasn't the military issued steroids?
Too expensive for too little gains.

Well, there'd be a lot of GAINS, but why pay for something when people will get natty asf after being in for a while, anyway?

>>31104117
And the cost of more training would work out as better, perhaps. Roids are surprisingly expensive.

I'm not too sure, though. If they were bought in bulk, they'd surely be cheaper. Would it then work out as better? I don't know.

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The US DOD is currently performing human trials with follistatin gene therapy.

Follistatin is the hormone responsible for stimulating muscle growth, it has the exact opposite function of myostatin which inhibits muscle growth.
Some animals such as Belgian Blue cattle or "bully" whippets either lack genes necessary for producing myostatin, or they produce abnormal amounts of follistatin. As a result they have a much higher ratio of muscle mass than their non-mutant counterparts.


It has been trialed in mice and monkeys before with great success.

It almost doubles the natural growth of skeletal muscles seemingly without any major negative consequences.

And since it's gene therapy it's permanent.
You take daily injections for a month and you're a beefcake for the rest of your life without needing to lift weights.

The only negative effects of this treatment I'm aware of is an increase in the body's nutritional requirements, which is only natural.
If the patient maintained a normal diet he would lose body fat before he lost muscle mass.
There is also a chance of a slightly reduced life span, and problems associated with high body weight such as joint pain would likely also be present.
There are however no abnormalities in non-skeletal muscles such as the heart.


Of course this is all classified. But it has been more or less confirmed.
A few years ago the FDA shut down all experiments using follistatin gene therapy to stimulate muscle growth and confiscated all research data.
It has since been classified.

>>31105354
Any links I can read through?

>>31105684
There is some info about follistatin online, but a lot of it is bullshit spewed by people on bodybuilding forums that have no idea ETF they're talking about, or they're spewing bullshit in a stupid attempt to sell some snake oil supplement.

If you really want to learn about follistatin you can start by visiting the Wikipedia page then reading all the studies and articles used as references to write the wiki article.

>>31105354
Spoopy

>>31105999
When we finally get a better understanding of the human genome and how to fully utilize CRISPR gene manipulation this stuff will seem like crude tricks.

It's on a completely different level.
It's an incredibly potent tool that would allow for very drastic modifications of humans.

Want to be immune to cancer?
Done.

Want to live to be 150?
Done

Want to be 7' tall, incredibly beautiful, have an IQ of 400, enormous muscle mass without working out, and 15 inch cock?
Done, done, and done.


But some fucker will probably ban it before it gets that good.

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Hey why weren't we invited to talk about augments?

>>31105354
I can see how being a permanent beef-cake might be undesirable. Although it's nice to be big and have permanent increase in strength I wonder what it would actually do to your lifespan and heart rate (unless it fully mitigates this and improves the heart and other cardiovascular shit as well).

>>31101850

Ignore the retards. They probably don't even know that steroids are artificial testosterone. Steroids are prescribed to people to help against swelling, or even people with severe muscle atrophy.

>hurr durr steoirds r berd

>>31106146
Bully Whippets and Belgian Blue cattle live almost as long as their scrawnier counterparts and they don't have any unique health problems, so I'd guess it's probably reasonably safe.

Although it's impossible to know for sure until some people have gone through the treatment and lived with it for a few decades.

>>31091021
Playing with genetics would be far more efficient if you could perfect it.

>>31105354
That mouse went FUAAAAAAAAARK

>>31088119
Soldiers are cheap and gear isn't. Same reason they don't get better body armor or really [insert anything that generally makes their jobs easier/lives better].

>>31106192
>doctors prescribe it to some people with medical conditions that warrant hormonal therapy, that means it's totally fine to take it to get ripped
>it's just hormones so it's okay lel!!1

Do you actually read the shit you're posting or do you just let your hands type whatever?

>>31088119
They already do.

>>31088125
If they break you they don't fix jack.

>>31106338
>Soldiers are cheap and gear isn't
>Same reason they don't get better body armor or really

Total bullshit, this isn't the 40's. Servicemen cost outrageous amounts of money. The kit is pretty expensive, too, but it's basically nothing compared to what your average semi-literate beaner costs to deploy, let alone someone with an actual skillset and education. Fucking summer, when will it end?

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>>31088119
They do

>>31088119

Sure. Meth, steroids, testosterone. Repeat until no longer neck beard. Yes a sizable minority will experience side-effects possibly even lethal. But if we needed couple more million infantry for whatever reason. There are ways.

That said it won't happen. Robot warfare is coming fast. No point focusing on infantry when they're going to be replaced by drones, bots, and AI in 50 years.

>>31106852
Sure thing bro.

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>>31106949

Wow, great argument fagtron, you sure convinced me with those hot opinions.

>>31106996
I'm not arguing. I'm dismissing your post because you haven't the foggiest clue what you're talking about. Hell, you've already proved it by talking about the purchase price of a piece of equipment as if that's even a substantive fraction of a hunk of gear's costs.

You're too stupid and too utterly convinced you're absolutely correct to bother with, so sure, have fun posting graphs.

>>31100903
It might, but pearl clutchers and brain damaged conspiritards would obstruct research into this field even if it had significant benefits for people outside of military applications.

>>31107022

That's an awful lot of words to type out just to say you don't have an argument.

>>31105354

That mouse is fucking JUICY

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>>31105354
Holy shit that mouse is obscenely ripped.

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>>31106075
Augments?

>>31106918
>thinks soldier's costs are high because of training and not the assorted benefits

It's cheap to put boots on the ground at whatever skill level you want. What's expensive is paying for them to go to college after they get out, paying retirement, giving them medical care, giving their dependents medical care, etc. etc. etc. etc.

>>31088789
Por que?

>>31107348
So they can stay awake for abnormal periods of time.

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>>31101645

>>31107348
So they can stay fully alert for retarded lengths of time, an suffer less performance degradation as heavy fatigue sets in

The average person will start to experience difficulty concentrating after around 24 hours awake not doing much, and will start to suffer microsleeps after 30 to 40 hours, the drugs help to delay those problems

>That feel when 1 hour sleep in 4 days on an exercise
>Start to hallucinate soviet paratroopers and tiny lizards everywhere

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>>31088119
Because winners don't use drugs.

they tried.

>>31091021
The problem with exosuits is that, well they're suits. The soldier depends on this suit for strength, agility, and a heightened sense of intelligence. But suits can be taken off. Without the suit, they'd be vulnerable af.

>>31109584
Gotta make nanosuits that grow into the soldier and feeds itself and the soldier by sucking biomass

>>31093062
>vehicules

>>31112299

The whole post reads like a twelve year old.

>>31088119
Amfetamin or Panzerschokolade was used by Luftwaffe pilots and eastern front soldiers whicch could get a hold of it.

>>31088119
Because they are funded and supported by people who belive that there is such a thing as a soul that was a gift from an imaginary sky father. Therefore teh woor on drugkz must go on on erry front.

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>>31088119

>>31088119
they do.
Even MRE's are pretty much drugs to enhance combat effectiveness, compared to regular meals they're made to make you fight longer and harder.

Plus, in the past when governments gave not even half a shit about a soldier's well being after the conflict, they'd pump people full of drugs and/or allow them to be on drugs with complete disregard for safety. Es. methamphetamines being given out like literal candies.

The most recent conflict that allows you to see the effect this had was Vietnam. That's part of the reason why many vets (most) were pretty much forgotten, many were broken by drug abuse and would have been expensive for the country to "fix".

Right now I dunno how's the situation in general, but as I said earlier, even MRE's can be considered combat drugs. A lot of research goes into making the most effective meals, and the difference they make is huge.

>>31112735
Cruel and unusual punishment is a violation of human rights you dumb kangaroo.

>>31112774
>Even MRE's are pretty much drugs to enhance combat effectiveness

If "tons of fat, sugar and little to no water/fibre to be as high-calorie as possible for their weight, while pumped full of preservatives to last as long as possible" means "drugs" in your world, then yes.

>even MRE's can be considered combat drugs

Maybe by 12 y/o airsofters who "get high" on Monster energy drinks.

>A lot of research goes into making the most effective meals

A lot of research goes into making them last, while being calorie high and not overly expensive.

>the difference they make is huge

That's right, if you eat actual food instead of MREs, you can actually go take a shit every other day instead of pushing a dry brick the size of a newborn out of your asshole after a week of suffering.

>>31112839
It's not just about taking shits, it's the high amount of calories that can be eaten in a short amount of time.

But then I'm Italian and all I eat takes 1 hour to consume, so I guess that's my view that is skewed.

>>31112735
>spreading vegemite that thick
you fucking animal.

>>31091433
Now take your B-vitamin.

>>31112774

Don't know what you're saying about MREs. But we did give our soldiers a fuckton of amphetamines during WW2, Korea, and I think Vietnam as well. We'd just give out these "pep pills" that are actually just straight amphetamines so our dudes could stay awake and focused for long periods of time.

When will we start making Rangers and other special operations/forces soldiers take Test E to get joocy swole? Get them on a good diet filled with protein and make them do a 12 week cycle. With the proper post-cycle therapy drugs and dietary habits, they'd be fit as a fiddle. I'd say 500mg of Test would be good.