f-35 fags btfo http://www.businessinsider.com/gene ral-chuc

>5th gen fags btfo

ftfy

>>31086133
entire article is tripe. Yeager is a sad old man getting lead around the nose by his wife and aids, isolated from reality and shunned from the airforce proper. If you can engage him he may actually have a moment of lucidity as he relives the past, but the truth is he is a miserable old fuck who nearly had his statue removed from Edwards AFB.

Sorry, but the dude is a mortal man, and a racist/ sexist mother fucker who has zero appreciation of just about anything.

>>31086461
But even he can see the truth.

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Aaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnnd... GO!

>>31086473

except the last time he fought in combat, a radar weighed 100 tons and a lead computing gunsight was a pipe dream. much less LPI radars, targeting pods, etc.

Yeager is out of touch. which is fine for an old man. let's hope his handlers let him be remembered for the hero he was rather than the PR nightmare he is.

>>31086461
>>31086490

Someone's salty.

>>31086507
You deal with him once, going in wide eyed and expecting a great man, and instead get what we got, and yeah. You get a little disillusioned and salty.

>>31086461
> and a racist/ sexist
What has that got to do with aircraft.

>>31086133
I was sure that Chuck Yeager died several years ago. Mandela effect is in force.

>>31086486
I am 100% genuinely confused about CAS, I thought it always had to be low and slow.

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>>31086618

Yeah, I thought so to. I remember being bummed about it because the guy is so awesome.

Maybe it was a BS headline we both saw. The press does fuck things up from time to time.

>>31086507
Moore's Law

>>31086632
Close Air Support means the enemy is close to your allies, not that you are close to the ground.

>>31086473

But can he see why kids love cinnamon toast crunch?

>>31086461
>racist/ sexist
someone is in the wrong place

>>31086669
I'm aware of that, I thought CAS had to be low and slow to be more accurate and saturate the target with more ordnance.

>>31086618
Probably thinking of Robin Olds

>>31086719
With the advent of guided munitions that's no longer really the case, the reason you may want to be low would be to avoid enemy air defenses.

>>31086719
How does being low and slow make you any more accurate at dropping Laser Guided Bombs and JDAMs?

>>31086647
different anon, here. i've been pretty heavily affected by the mandala effect and i don't remember yeager dying. for whatever that's worth.

>>31086490
>he hasn't read CY's biography
>he doesn't know that yeager flew Canberra bombers in Nam

>>31086735
>>31086730
You don't always use guided munitions?

>>31086133
It's going to be interesting seeing who was right.

>>31086758
You do 95% of the time unless you're an A-10.

Which is why the A-10 is shit.


CAS doesn't HAVE to be low and slow. It can be if you're in a low-threat environment, but it doesn't have to be.

>>31086758
We're talking about the US military anon, not Estonia or somethin.

>>31086784
>>31086771
I'm not defending or saying the F-35 can't CAS, just shit I thought it had to be low and slow. What flies CAS more anyways A-10s or F-16s?

>>31086806
F-16s.

>>31086806
>A-10s or F-16s
F-16s, by far. But the undisputed king of CAS during Iraq Part Duex and Afghanistan was the B-1, when looking at iron dropped by weight.

>>31086133
Guy next door as a kid was Don Lopez a flying tiger
Cutting grass one day and see corvette in Mr. Lopez driveway
See old guy in leather jacket talking to Mr. Lopez
Chuck Mother Fucking Yeager
Later I ask Mr. Lopez if that was Chuck Yeager
Mr. Lopez says "Yeah he stops by when in DC" and "complains about all the niggers".

Really cool to see two aces chatting about the old days.

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Well, Yeager has spoken.

>>31086461
>Sorry, but the dude is a mortal man, and a racist/ sexist mother fucker who has zero appreciation of just about anything.

>thinks this means anything here

>>>/tumblr/
>>>/reddit/

>>31086490
You literally know nothing about Yeager's flight history...

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>5th gen fighters?
>waste of money
>4th gen fighters all u need m8
>don't need stealth
>if targeted by missiles
>just afterburn a mach 2 parabolic evasion
>while carefully
>lining
>up
>the
>shots
>and brrrrt brrrrt brrrrt the missiles as they close
>missiles don't dodge
>all you need are canon shells
>then you close with the now-empty enemy jets
>you're faster because you don't bother with low-speed, high-drag bullshit like stealth
>you don't need radar because you just follow the contrails of the missiles you shot down back to the planes that launched them
>there they are
>you can see them out there in the sky
>get into a nice furball
>brrrt
>splash one
>brrrt
>splash two
>engage next target ad nauseum until out of tangos
>continue flight
>repeat until bingo fuel

>>31086461
>Wahh racist, sexist
Where do you ''''people'''' even come from, you clearly do not belong here.

>>31086957
Quiet, /pol/

>>31086461

>zero appreciation of just about anything.

What do you expect he spent his generation fought to save the country and make it great and then got to watch a couple of generations of greedy whiney pussies throw it all away.

What do you expect him to appreciate.

>>31086983
>someone tells some soft skin to fuck off
>you cry /pol/

Sure is summer in here.

>>31086461
if there were less niggers, spics, and women the air force would be a lot better off.

>>31087000
>memes hard
>get's caught
>blames summer

Yeah, no. >>>/pol/

>>31086133
ITT: Non airmen and non pilots talk about things they have little experience with

>>31087031
SJWs belong on /pol/.

Fug off.

>>31087077
>anon points out that Yaeger was once a great man but is now completely lost in time and place
>completely out of touch with modern social norms and technology
>probably not the definitive voice on where the country needs to go with new technologies in military aviation overall
WAAAAAAAAAH MUH SJWs!

>>31087077
Protip: This is /k/. The only other board with regular lefty bashing threads. Calling people SJWs? That's only going to get people to tell you to fuck off.

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>>31087147
You're hating people for being products of their time.

He's an American hero, but his view of modern air combat is clearly lacking.

Fuck off m8, If you get offended by the word nigger you shouldn't be on fucking 4chan. Go browse tumblr or something.

>government in charge of keeping a project under budget

Just cut funding and write off the losses. American taxpayer has already been raped enough

>>31087241
People shouldn't be SJWs if they don't want to be called as much.

>>31086990
His generation were the people who spent all the tax money I'll ever give before I was even born. So don't you go calling any kind of 'greatest generation tripe'.

>>31087321
Psssssst!

We're trying to tell you something!

>>31086133
Is this James Yeager's dad?

>>31087248
>You're hating people for being products of their time.
Nope. Simply pointing out how ill-prepared this great man of another age is to comment on current events, technologies, tactics or procurement. It's like asking John Monash whether the Armata T14 is worth a shit. Yes, he was a ground-breaking and excellent tank commander in WWI. No, he doesn't have a fucking clue what makes an excellent tank on the modern battlefield.

Anything that comes out of Yaeger's mouth about modern fighter technology is irrelevant noise. He hasn't been in the game since the USAF was slapping the ass on newly-born Century series fighters.

>>31086735

going fast actually makes the JDAM work better. up to a point at least.

>>31087344
Psssssst!

>>>/pol?
:^)

>>31087443
kek

>>31087474
No one is arguing that, but his personal beliefs of race, or whatever, have no relevance to any of it.

>>31087535
Yeah, no. It always amazes us how often you guys try this bit and how often it doesn't work.

>>31086461
>Old people's opinions are irrelevant, they don't know anything!

typical millennial

>>31087545
>but his personal beliefs of race, or whatever, have no relevance to any of it.
No relevance to his comments on the F-35 or F-22, no. However, they are very indicative of a mindset which reached its (admittedly stratospheric) zenith quite some time ago and has not bothered to stay abreast of current events or advances.

I don't think it's out of bounds to point out when discussing his comments that this man is so out of touch that he uses the word "nigger" in everyday, public conversation. Not in his home. Not when he's really drunk camping with lifelong friends. Not on 4chan ironically/unironically. In public. This isn't being a victim of SJW rage. This is going to sleep in 1952 and forgetting to wake up and go to work for the next 60 years.

>>31087565
>Us
Kek, I only see you here, SJW shitter.

>>31086133
John Boyd hated the F-22. What's your point?

>>31086553
How'd you meet him?

>>31086758
If you're doing CAS, especially danger-close, you really, really want to be using guided munitions. It's a lot safer.

APKWS can do the same thing as a gun run, for example, but from altitude and with as little or less frag dispersion.

>>31086632
Assuming you arent trolling it is a reference to dropping shit near your own people, not being close to the ground. Low and slow was a side effect of the mk1 eyeball having to ID targets clearly and lack of all-weather targeting. But it isnt 1980 anymore, and Sniper pods and JDAMs can put a bomb a few feet away from you even when dropped thousands of feet in the air

>>31086758
>You don't always use guided munitions?
Guided munitions haven't always been a thing. Technology advances. When CAS was first developed, there were no guided munitions. Now there are. So CAS has evolved along with the weapons.

>>31087599
This

Got to love the underrage autists getting all butthurt over just mentioning sexism.

So old chuck doesn't like the F-22 or the F-35. What does he want P-51's and F-86's. He is an old man who glory days were in Germany and Korea. He has no real experience with modern jets beyond taking a joy ride in a F-15.

>>31086486
>early in project
>F-35 fags tell us that F-35 lacking gun means nothing because guns are not really useful nowadays
>mid 2015 or so.
>F-35 got a gun

Explain.

>>31086133
While this is obvious b8 and definitely Yeager is out of touch, can f-35boos answer this one little question.

Why entire idea of F-35 is based around fighting 4th/4.5th gen.

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>Listening to some old fuck that says the F-22/F-35 are both wastes of money

Okay

Why does this thread still exist again?

I'm sure when I'm a crusty shit I'll think that the latest version of windows that jacks directly into your brain is a waste of money and back in my day all we used is XP, but that doesn't make my nostalgic and out of touch opinion fucking relevant

>>31090051
only the F-35A is getting an internal gun, F-35B and C are getting gun pods which effectively means that they included the gun for CAS, not AA combat (hence why it's a 25mm not a 20mm gun, so that it can punch through BTR/BMP armour etc better

>>31090396
If there is a BTR/BMP, its not going to be doing gun runs.

>>31086486
Bingo!

>>31090092
It's about being able to strike ground targets and defend itself if needed. Its fighter role is a secondary concern. The fact that it can, at the very least, wipe the floor with the most common fighter craft of the modern age as its night job is an indication of how good it is.

It is not a purpose designed fighter but it wins every mock engagement we put it in with almost comical ease, so that has to count for something.

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>>31090313
If your talking doesn't make sense, how about you try barking?

>>31090496
Wat? He's saying people's opinions are obviously going to be bias towards things they personally grew up with and have a fondness of.

>>31090313
except XP is still infinitely more practical andvreliable than 10

>>31090521
Did I say Windows 10?

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>>31090505
did you just go full dog?
never go full dog!

>>31090551
*tips fedora*

The government is smarter than you.

>>31090602
Pretty sure you just missed the point. Not sure how you managed it, but you did.

>>31090521

It really isn't. You people are such a cancer to the cyber security world. XP is riddled with vulnerabilities and bugs.

>>31090795
I'll have you know that one of the computers I use at work has XP, and is extremely secure.

>But that's because it's not networked, and only used with some legacy devices.

>>31090396
No, the F-35s gun is not for, and will never be used for CAS gun runs. The reason it uses the round it does is because it only carries one seconds worth of trigger pull.

>>31090873
Chinese_VHF_Radars.jpg

>>31086133
All this fag knew how to do was strafe women, children, and airfields, steal kills, and shoot people in parahutes. Some of his kills wouldnt have been counted by soviet or german airforces like him "causing" 2 people to crash without shooting. I will never understand the yeager dick sucking that occurs when there are so many better aces

>>31087248
>>31086486
"I know more than a veteran officer and test pilot": the post.

OK, time to show your credentials, minimum 10 personal decorations.

>>31087004
*Fewer

>>31086461
I think his analysis sucks, but whining about how he's a "miserable old fuck" and "racist/sexist motherfucker" makes you look like a sheltered 14-year old who lives in a gated community and goes to a 95% white high-school that preaches that "diversity is our strength" and has discovered the joys of calling people "niggers" on Xbox Live while playing Call of Duty.

It doesn't help your case.

>>31091557
>"a veteran officer knows more than the consensus of many, many more veteran officers who were undoubtedly consulted"
Knowledgeable, and even smart people can be wrong too, ya know. See Linus Pauling for one example; one of the best, smartest, and most well-respected scientists in the last hundred years, but completely bloody wrong about vitamin C.

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>>31086486

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>>31086691
@GenChuckYeager: Waste of money

>>31086759
Not the old man who's been retired 7 years longer than he was in the same year the F-15 entered service) and never flying anything more advanced than the F-4 in combat.

>>31086771
Even then in Desert Storm 95%+ of the attacks the A-10 made were using Mavericks from Medium altitude. When they did try the low guns approach on the Republican Guard they suffered unacceptable loss/damage rates.

>>31091557
Credentials: I wasn't born before the Great Depression.

He's great, he's a hero, I greatly admire him.

That being said, I probably wouldn't ask him to help me set up a new computer I just bought, understand?

>>31087587
>typical millennial
Dumbass. Yes, you should listen to experience, but doing so blindly is retarded. You need to weigh how the experience is relevant and if they have kept up that knowledge into modern times to still be relevant.

>>31087625
>John Boyd hated the F-22. What's your point?
John Boyd hated anything that didn't match his math, too.

Fun fact, Boyd was the one who wrote the disastrous 4-ship formation doctrine used in Vietnam.

>>31089598
>Guided munitions haven't always been a thing.
The Air Force has had LGBs since Vietnam, 4 Pave Knife pods were deployed as part of Linebacker.

And the Combat Tree BVR IFF system in the F-4E.

>>31090092
>Why entire idea of F-35 is based around fighting 4th/4.5th gen.
It's not. It's designed so that it's a lot easier to upgrade and defeat potential future threats.

>news is now twitter and replies

>>31090396
>hence why it's a 25mm not a 20mm gun, so that it can punch through BTR/BMP armour etc better
Plus the rounds are optimized for ground targets instead of aircraft like the standard load for the M61.

>>31090521
Complete retard detected.

>>31090818
And in a year or two your bosses are going to be in a panic because the computer failed in some way and it's going to cost three times as much to fix it as a planned upgrade.

>>31090818

Exactly my point, fine whatever use it on air gapped devices, but pleeeease for god sake don't give them a connection to the internet.

>>31090882
>What are Programmable Bursts
>What are advanced sensors
The F-35 will do gun runs with a significantly lower rounds:hit ratio, and be far less likely to commit fratricide than the A-10.

>>31086133

Because legendary old war veterans are always right, just look at France in WW2.

>>31092084
French war veterans are said to become more heroic with each retelling of their stories.

I met a few real war heroes from WW2 (sadly, all are dead now) and the one thing they had in common was that they never promoted themselves.

>>31090476
>The JSF program was designed to replace the United States military F-16, A-10, F/A-18 (excluding newer E/F "Super Hornet" variants) and AV-8B tactical fighter and attack aircraft.
>Its fighter role is a secondary concern
who needs air superiority anyway

>>31091799
and if you end up wrong? I want you to dig him up and suck his cock until he comes back to life and implants his seed so deep in your throat that you never talk again

>>31092983

DUDE MULTIROLE WHAT A WASTE LOL XD

>>31093009

k.

Being that new modern F-16's cost 200 million, i would love to see what would NOT be a waste of money.

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>chuck yeager is still alive

>>31093009
>and if you end up wrong?
Well, I won't, so not really a problem.

>>31091974
It literally never will, its guns aren't even sighted in, nor meant for ground attack. No F-35 will fly below 20,000ft in a real mission.

>>31094817
If it were meant for air to air, they would've just put in the M61. Instead they picked a four-barrel version of the AV-8B's gun and selected a ground-attack specific round.

tl;dr: You're full of shit.

>>31094936
It has a bigger round because it has significantly less ammo. And is in fact sighted in for air to air firing, in a half attempt to appease people who thought the 35 still needed a gun, even if it will nevery be used for a2a, and is too dangerous and frankly worthless, for a one second worth ground attack run.

>>31095122
http://www.gd-ots.com/armament_systems/mbw_GAU-22A.html

>The demonstrated versatility, coupled with significant combat lethality, makes the GAU-22/A gun an ideal candidate for air, land and sea platforms

Now fuck off.

>>31095122
>It has a bigger round because it has significantly less ammo.
They could've fitted in the M61 just fine if it was an A2A gun. The 20mm PGU-28A/B SAPHEI is purpose-built for downing fighters. 25mm APEX is built for light armor.

>And is in fact sighted in for air to air firing
So are the M-61 on the -15, -16, and -18 and they all do gun runs just fine.

>and is too dangerous and frankly worthless, for a one second worth ground attack run.
Still making this stupid assumption that it'll be doing gun runs as "spray and pray" like on 4th Gen, I see.

>>31095251
>So are the M-61 on the -15, -16, and -18 and they all do gun runs just fine

No, they don't. You clearly know nothing about combat aviation, tactics, or basic physics. Eagle and Viper pilots have a much harder and more dangerous time trying to perform gun runs than dedicated ground attack craft, the wrong elevation or their gun, the speeds that they're flying at, and the steeper dive angles they have to use all come out to equal them having only a fraction of the time to setup a correct gun run than that of a Hog driver, which leads to less accuracy, and higher chance of firing at the wrong target. In most cases, fixed wing fighter pilots will not even attempt to provide CAS with guns because it is too difficult for them, instead theyd rather drop flares and engage the burner at low level to try and scare the enemy.

If you're so ignorant about the differences between gun elevation, speed, and attack angles that are needed by various aircraft, then by all means feel free to educate yourself on the matter instead of shitposting here. Learn for yourself what it's like to perform a gun run in an A-10, then switch to an F-15, or a Mirage, or an Su-27, ect to see the difference. You can literally learn about this from your own home, obviously, you've had little interest in doing so.

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>""An A-10 is always going to be better at CAS than an F-35. That's because the A-10 was designed specifically for that mission. But any other mission on the planet besides CAS, the F-35 wins, period..."

>any other mission other than ground attack

>>31096044
>all ground attack is CAS

C'mon buddy.

>>31096060
>CAS isn't ground attack

>>31095887
And yet they still do them all the time. Pull your head out of your fucking ass.

Gun runs in and of themselves are a relic done only in COIN anyways, so it's not like it's that important. So low on the scale, in fact, that the Navy and Marines wanted a Missionized Gun Pod so they wouldn't have to have a gun unless the mission called for gun runs on ground targets.

Fuck, the A-10 barely did gun runs, its primary weapon was always the Maverick.

>>31096044
One idiot who had no real experience in an F-35 except a single sim flight.

Ignoring the ability to integrate data from Situational Awareness systems like BFT and NETT Warrior.

Ignoring that one of the things it could do is provide risk rings overlaid on the impact zone.

Ignoring that it has native 2-way link capability with ground controllers.

A-10s have one of the highest fratricide rates BECAUSE of the crappy avionics, comms, and the big, dumb spray and pray gun.

>>31095122
>sighted in for air to air firing
What did he mean by this?

>>31092983
And even so it outperforms and outfights our last generation air superiority fighter.

Which we're keeping by the way and upgrading.

So we're not exactly replacing anything anytime soon. We have hundreds of F-22s, will have thousands of F-35s, and will still have thousands of F-15s which are getting their 2040 upgrade packages.

>>31096295
>thousands of F-15s
There's only like 200 F-15C's in service

>>31096312
Corrected, thanks.

Always figured we had more than that, still my overall point stands. The planes we have are getting better for the most part, and we're getting a new plane that in every mock combat wipes the floor with our current planes, so I'm not seeing the downside here.

I've seen a few recordings of F 35s going against 15s and 16s, it's always over as soon as the 35s get in weapons range, the enemy never even sees them.

>>31096349
off by orders of magnitude
>my scenario stands
yeah no

>>31096208
>One idiot who had no real experience in an F-35 except a single sim flight

He's literally a veteran F-16 pilot, you fucking child

>>31096506
And still thinking like one. Which is why his near-zero -35 experience makes his opinion invalid.

>Last I checked he was a Hog flyer

>>31096410
My overall point was that we're keeping our current aircraft for the forseeable future and getting other planes that are either equal, or even better. If ~300 F-15s were enough before, then I don't see how adding a few hundred F-35s on top of that is going to somehow make us weaker, considering the F-35 wins every mock engagement it goes into without even trying.

>>31087625
>comparing Boyd to Yeager
Now I don't agree with Yeager at all here but come one.

>>31096561
*come on

>>31096530
Are you literally retarded?

He's an F-35 pilot because he was F-16 pilot.

Either kill yourself or stop posting

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>>31096062
You can be good at ground attack and be poor for CAS. (EX: Predator)

The F-35 will be amazing for Ground Attack, and still amazing for CAS.

>A former A-10 instructor pilot said the situational awareness aids associated with the sensor suite of the F-35A allowed pilots to execute close air support missions as well or better than the A-10 in low-threat environments. The F-35A is the only multirole platform capable of conducting close air support in high-threat environments.

>>31096410
I'm the guy that corrected him.

He's still fucking right you retard. A handfull of F-35's will be able to decimate enemy aircraft squadrons with a very good W:L ratio.

>>31090313
they can pry the CLI from my cold, dead hands

>>31091706
top tier cap

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>>31091871
>thinking your brand of bullshit is somehow new and different

>>31096648
I'm a fan of the F-35, but my question is, why wasn't the software and avionics of an older model aircraft retrofitted with something like the new products to provide them with the same lethal networking capability?

>>31096610
>implying they aren't transitioning as many A-10 pilots to F-35 as they can so the can finally retire the hog
>Citation needed that he was a Viper driver

>>31097025
Because it's a super expensive half measure to strap the capabilities on instead of being native.

>>31097064
Fair enough

>>31086133
It seems to me, in my rather ignorantly made conjecture, that whoever can fire the better missile first would win regardless of anything else.
Are the planes really that stealthy anyway?
At least the f35 has that whole battlefield network electronic coordination thing going for it. Which I believe is meant to support the first point I made.
If so, f22 really would be a waste of money.

>>31097053
>>Citation needed that he was a Viper driver
>His name is right on his suit and I'm too stupid to research this myself

>>31097138

It's not quite that simple, because
>1 - A missile's max range is nowhere close to what will guarantee a kill
>2 - As soon as you lock onto someone with a radar they are now extremely aware of your presence
>3 - Fighter planes do not fight alone

The F-22 has far fewer in quantity than the F-35 for a reason, it's the same general concept, specifically designed for air superiority. You really need something specifically tailored to fuck other things out of the sky, but you don't need quite as many of them compared to general purpose aircraft.

>>31097311
>2
Not quite accurate since LPI is a thing, but mostly true.

>>31086490
Yeager probably had a K-14 lead computing gunsight in the P-51 he flew in WW2, do you always foam at the mouth or is it a monthly thing?

>>31097311
The fun thing about the F-35 and the AIM-120D is that it can lock on entirely in passive mode, launch and guide into terminal range via the LPI 2-way link, and have the target inside the NEZ before any active radar lights up.

>>31086133

I expected better from him.

>>31097311
>The F-22 has far fewer in quantity than the F-35 for a reason

Yeah, but that reason isn't because we couldn't use more of them...

:(

>>31086133
>businessinsider
trash

>>31097441
Oh man, that's cool as shit. I always forget to read up on details about new missiles.

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>Air Force
>military branch with worthwhile opinions

Let me know when that hugbox becomes a real military.

>>31097480
Eh, the F-35 network in a combat airspace can provide force multiplication capabilities to the F-22s.

>>31091557

i fly fighters. flew an ACM ride today. 1 circle fights are fun, and your wingman swooping in to shoot the bandit is one of those "my job is awesome and totally worth all the BS" moments.

>>31096289

probably how the gun has a upcant installation so you don't need to pull as much lead for an air-to-air track.

>>31095887
>>31095251
>>31095887
>>31096208

the upcant does make for some unnerving sight pictures, and there's many in the F-15E community who would prefer that we never do gun runs again. night strafe killed two guys in Afghanistan via CFIT.

that being said, we still night strafe.

>>31097875
Yeah, and a good thing too, since we have only a handful, and have to cannibalize parts just to deal with standard wear-and-tear, let alone combat losses.