>Australia uses an Austrian gun for their service rifle.

No, it was just the closest spawn.

>>31009097
>Did they do this on purpose

No. There was a mispelling in the gun shipments.

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>>31009097
They used to be equipped with British small arms. Before the dark times. Before the emus...

>>31009097

>fluted barrel

>>31009097
No, "they" didn't.

It was John Thomas from the Ministry of Defense. He's an ass.

>>31009253
Does it not improve weight and/or cooling?

Colt wouldn't sell us the M16 licence for whatever reason so we went with the ugliest gun ever made

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>>31010021
>shitting on based sci-fi blaster
Fuck you the AUG and P90 are the closest I can get to a real lasergun.

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>>31009097
>Did they do this on purpose?
pic very related

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Why? Why did you gave her up, ol'chap?

>>31010160
Probably because she is obsolete.

>>31010021
>ugliest gun ever made
Name a better looking bullpup.

The SA80 looks like ass.
The FAMAS looks like ass.
The Boatgun looks like ass.
The Tavor looks like ass and is jewshit.

>>31010200
Not really a bullpup, but the G11.

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>>31010200
>>31010112
I think he means the Austeyr specifically, since it is uniquely ugly compared to most any normal northern hemisphere AUG, which do look excellent.

>>31009097
>Why

Aus just the way it goes, m8

>>31010200
>FAMAS
>ass
You take that back

>>31010200
WA2000

>>31010257
It looks like it was made in PS1 graphics then remade in real life.

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>>31010325
I see what you did there

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>>31010200
>Name a better looking bullpup.
Valmet M82

>>31009097
No, because they put anyone who designs weapons in Australia into prison

see: owen gun

Why would you not use a rifle designed by your country?

>>31010464
see
>>31010430

>>31010464
Because sometimes no one in your country knows what they're doing.

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>>31009097
Why do the aussies have a cooler looking AUG than we do? We should have a cool AUG seeing as we populated half their country!

>>31010021
We couldnt produce enough units for the M4 licence, so we went with the AUG

We should have just worked it out with the kiwis to build gats for them too.
>>31009097

>>31010112
calm down there autismo

>>31010686
>populated half their country
I didn't know the Vietnamese used AUGs.

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>>31010004
>Improve weight

Maybe by a gram and a half.

>Cooling

Not enough increase in surface area to be worth the cost of manufacture.

If you want a good example of a barrel "fluted" to actually increase heat radiation to a noticeable level, look at pic related.

>>31010112
Fuck that shit
Fuck the F88 and fuck the F90. They are both the biggest pieces of shit in existence. I've had the pleasure to use the SLR and ar15s and they are both superior. The aus styrs are unwieldy, fragile, water phobic, dust sluts that just love being fucking bitches. And god help you if you're not right handed, that dosn't even begin to mention safety issue of slinging the fucking thing if you're a leftie. At least we now have acogs and elcans, and dont even want to mention the fucking horror of shooting with the standard issue sight.

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gday m8

>>31011986
>The aus styrs are unwieldy, fragile, water phobic, dust sluts that just love being fucking bitches.
I saw some greentext about a F88 rusting and completely fucking itself after 8 hours or so of heavy rain and high humidity. Is that of thing true?

>>31009097
Except now Australia uses an Australian rifle based on an Austrian rifle used by Austria but now modified by Australia

>>31012013
They hydrolock in water where as ar15s wont. They wont rust to the point of fucking itself without 8hrs of cleaning up north or in a jungle, but it there will be rust on it every morning that has to get cleaned off. Thats mainly because the protective finishes are cheap and not repaired often, and CLP can help the rusting process. Pure lanolin is where its at, like the Kiwis use. We did a test one night while working out of zodiacs. Before hunking down for the night, cleaning and coated one with CLP and the other with lanolin. Cause we had been in salt water all day, and were on a beach, the CLP weapon the next day was rusted to fuck, while lanolin was clean.

I don't get the bullpup meme. Sure the British were on to a good idea with the EM2 in the 1950s, the ergonomics are shit though. We should have just built an AR15 clone like the Canadians.

>>31012013
Anyway all I'm trying to say is it isn't a military rifle. For cops, or anyone that never actually has to be out in the field and do shit yea no worries. But for guy that gotta live out in the field for a while and do their job, it can go fuck itself.

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even our special forces know the austeyr is shit and prefer the M4

>>31010021

New Zealand got LMT Mar-L gucci rifles. Kangaroos could've done that.

>>31012130
NZ also spends next to nothing on an airforce or navy, so they can afford some pretty guns

>>31012049
FNQR?

>>31012176
Anon.

>>31012049
Doesn't surprise me too much, CLP is basically a lube and cleaner- it has some water repelling qualities but not to the extent something like lanolin does, which is basically a sheep's raincoat first and NZ sex lube secondary.
My only real complaint with 88s was the mags could be shitty, we got a run of them once back in the late 90s which used to crack around the feed lips and it'd be pretty fucking annoying. They where just old and shitty, so its not much of a problem on the newer ones.

>>31012093
To be honest, I think they only use it because everyone else uses it. No SF in the world doesn't use the M4.

>>31012154
I think NZ actually has no airforce. Like, not a single fighter. They rely on Australia for defense because everyone except America could only launch a decent invasion of NZ if they came through Australia first.

>>31012270
They 'might' have some jet trainers, but I think Aussies handle that now.
Aside from that there's a couple of gunships and stuff, couple of frigates and patrol boats.

any particular reason the modified bits on the front aren't the same color as the rest of the gun?

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>>31012250
>>31012270
>>31012013
All these Australians jealous of NZ sheep and rifles...

>>31012130
Churr bro

You inspired me to make a graphic for /k/, step back fullahs because this is OC on 4chan...

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>>31012275
Woops, just checked- no jet trainers

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>>31012084

Nah M9, Kiwi Grunt here.

They arent so bad. Had them in Afghan , used dry lube rather than CLP.

Also used them in malaysia, the CLP does its job.

Also used them in Sub-Zer0 , and thats where they seem to fail, thank the lord for adverse gas setting.

>>31012301
They are a tool that will go bang so at the end of the day we can make it work. But there are so many better options available, especially ones that arent bullpup. Also yea clp is shite, that why i said we used lanolin.

>>31010181
>FAL
>Obsolete

Because the SA-80 isn't pure garbage, you're right.

>>31012301
Why were you using a gun in Malaysia?

>>31012322
If you're in the Aus or NZ armed forces, sooner or later you end up in Malaysia.

>>31012322
Jungle training ex.

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>>31012331

Correctimundo Friendo

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>>31012317
Bullpup rifles are superior, though. They have longer barrels and thus have better ballistics than conventional rifles.

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>>31010200
>Name a better looking bullpup

OTS-14 looks so much better than that plastic fuck nugget.

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>>31012337


>AK with cables everywhere

Yeah, Nah.

A91 Superior

The F88 is reliable, rugged, easy to use and combat proven.
The eF88 improves on that background by dropping weight, adding twenty three and a half inches of rail space, improved barrel harmonics to use the new improved 5.56, new manufacturing processes and sixty three pages of critical input through diggerworks.
Than.
They add a thermal sight that brings the weight back to what it was.
Test and approve the new barrel while being shot unsupported and add a bipod forgrip to screw the harmonics.
Use a 1x and 4x select sight that requires a battery instead of the ACOG that infantry wanted.

Just another day in the service. We only get half what we need.

>>31012339
We're talking about looks specifically, and the OTS looks way better than the A91.

>>31012342
>improved barrel harmonics
Remington has the best barrel harmonics though.

>>31012343


Yeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaH

>>31012342

Kiwi Here again, Had a play with the EF88 out at Puckapunyol a while back

Honestly, Polished shite compared to the MARS-L

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>>31009097
Is it time to bring back the mighty leader? I know that our criminals have.

>>31012357

though the ELCAN SPECTRE DR 1-4 was fucking gorgeous

>>31012336
Longer barrels experience more sag an vibration, short barrels are more accurate

>>31010430
>>31010491


Evelyn Owen is in jail?

>>31012365
Therefore bullpups have no real advantage

>>31012371
Bullpups are still shorter rifles, and barrel vibration is less of an issue at ranges less then like 1 km

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>>31011111
nice pents

also why is the ceremonial steyr's mag fucking chrome plated

>>31012013
lots of SF (SAS, Commandos) have bitched about the Steyr in particular and bullpups in general for this and other reasons; hence why they insist on AR platforms only

So why cant the aussies just into AR's?

I don't understand?

Why do they persist with space guns?

>>31012261
>"they only use it because everyone else does"
this meme is fucking stupid. modern carbine AR-15 variants are the fucking gold standard for a reason, none of which jammy, brittle, "conversion kit for ambidextrious fire", shitty weight dispersion bullpups will ever be able to exemplify

>>31012374
Its for .308 but I imagine it carry's across:
https://www.wideopenspaces.com/the-truth-about-barrel-length-muzzle-velocity-and-accuracy/
Bullpups claim to fame is a shorter weapon with long barrel, but for a grunt only going out to about 300m where barrel length wont affect his accuracy, shorter barrel wont impeded his ability and might even improve it by having a small light weapon system capable of 300m killing with a compact profile. The bull-pup is not required, ar15 carbines will do fine.
Also the F88 and its carbine variant are both rated for the same distance, so why would having a small barrel be bad?

>>31012388
good question; the answer that has a lot to do with the fact that the bullpup meme was strong during the development and procurement of the weapons on a mass scale - namely they were at the time considered ideal for regular/reserve/conscript trained motorised/mechanised infantry

all the developments in SBRs since then have negated all comparative advantages of bullpups, its a tragedy really how much nation-states have invested in Steyrs and the like

>>31012395
Ok, a bullpup with a short barrel will still be shorter then an ar with a short barrel. Bullpups will always be shorter. I think some kind of top loading p90 style thing would be ideal, bullpup shortness with centre of mass over the grip

>>31012401
So instead of fucking about with a bullpup while reloading they could just fit out different companies with longer or shorter barrel AR's and shit would be sweet.

probably cheaper too

>>31012412
To what advantage? Why the obsession with bullpups? If the weapon is too small the soldier will not be able to hold it correctly and fire it accurately, with the ar15 carbines, they are not only ambidextrous (something bullpups are not, trust me left handed f88s are dangerous and annoying), but also the bullpup is a fixed stock due to the location of the working parts. ar15s are not, which allows the soldier to adjust his stock to suit his build or requirements. This is a massive advantage. So again, bullpups might be fine for cops, but not soldiers.

>>31012421
pretty much no reason they can't get Thales or whoever has the EF-88 contract to be pumping out an AR variant, but mil-industrial complex gonna complex

>>31012435
I'm just putting forth an idea, i think you have a point, but 7.62 mm bullpups would be better in the middle east due to the tendancy of fight s to happen at up to 700 m wouldnt they. Rifle capable of that range, but capable of be maneuaveuaerd in room clearing

While we're on the topic of Lithgow stuff how about those la102 crosovers, I'm thinking of getting one in .223.

>>31012449
Read the article, barrel length for a weapon shooting out to distances a grunt will engage at isn't much of an issue, there is a fair bit of lee way, check out the cut down SLRs the SASR were using in Vietnam, called the bastard. Thats all we had to do, cut down the rifles and modernize them, or go with ar15 carbines.
Look I'm guessing you're a civvie here, I'm not trying to insult you, but the bullpup is shit for a soldier, if you have a fetish for one, then by all means have it, be when the pros and cons of bullpups and ar15 carbine based weapons are weighted up, the bullpup comes out extremely short, soldiers don't care for the look of a tool, they want a practical one, and practicality is a beuty in its own right.

If we were to replace the Steyr and its variations with a non-bullpup firearm, the way to go would be the CZ-807.

>>31012475
Bastard, the bitch, or Slaughtermatics.

>>31012475
The article only mentions accuracy, i think the problems in afghanistan that the us have faced are matching the range of aks firing heavier 7.62 bullets. Youre right about me being a civvie, i guess it shows, so the adjustablility of the stock, the lack of casing in th face if the rifle is used on the wrong side and what else outweigh the longer barrel? Also more then anything i think it would be good to be able to swap rifles with the americans we often operate with, theres a reason nato standards exist after all

>>31012154
We spend a lot on the air force we just don't buy fighters because we can't keep up with the fighter mafia.

We managed to buy the most expensive helicopters in the world, and the contracts to replace strategic transport, tactical transport, ISR, and maritime patrol start in 2022.

For ~9 odd years we had a socialist over-bearer of a prime minister who axed all military projects and caused a massive sink in morale. We're on the way up now but its been dark times for the NZDF since '99

>>31012449
At 700m, fairly much no ones hitting much of anything under combat conditions taking fire- you pin them down and either manoeuvre to destroy them or if that's too sketchy you call in a hit.
Ambush- yes, but that's a fairly specialised event

>>31012513
Its also talks about velocity, but basically:
f88
Left handed? Get fucked cunt. Sling that bitch and when you bring it back around, wow its on instant (fire) ND for dayz. They change the ejector so you dont cop shells to the face like someone dicks to the face of sasha grey, but you onna patrol with section, guy goes down, your rifle gets shot up and you have to use theirs or vice versa, you start copping the dicks, so shoot right handed, or make the other guy shoot left? awesome now cunts cant hit shit. So train right handed? Now you cant use your dominant eye, have fun maintaining situational awareness or CQB.

>>31012541
F88
As mentioned earlier, dust slut, prude water bitch.
Wanna have a good time with bayonet? do it and fuck the rifle (to be fair but alot of modern rifles have similar issues).
Wanna mag change? or conduct a stopage drill? Have fun with situation awareness. Big tall guy? or short manlet? wanna have a rifle with eye relief and stock tailored to your build? Lol get fucked cunt, thats impossible, no such ting of adjustable stock, and on the topic of adjustable? the weapons is not. Sure kinda fixed with f90, slap some fucking pic rails all over that shit, but that only goes so far. The weapon cannot be tailored for specific people or mission requirements with minimal effort through after market accessories. Its requires the weapon to be heavily adjusted with a trained armorer or such. Ar15? its like a leggo set, no adults required to help you out m8.

>>31012556
Ar15 carbine
Ruffly same profile as a F88, so small profile.
Adjustable stock.
Lego Set, with no armorers required for things like GLA or such.
Pretty much a NATO standard almost (US, Canada, NZ, and even the brits slightly).
Fully ambidextious.
Not a prude water bitch, can enjoy getting wet.
The amount of after market support is huge,plus the industry in the design is large.
Can be tailored for specific pers/mission with minimal effort/cost.

>>31012250
The current runs still do that and sometimes, worst case scenario you impact the bottom of the mag (running to prone) and the feed lips crack off and get locked in the rifle.
We had at least one rifle turn itself into a single shot every few years.

>>31012571
All this and it can still shoot out to the same distance, with a lethal velocity. So bullpups as standard issue as a combat weapon for soldiers? They can get throughly fucked in a alley gangbang by 12 drugged up abos.

>>31012065
Ergonomics are fine if it's what you learn on.
Also helps if you're the right size for the rifle, lanky cunts and dwarves are fucked.

>>31012582
Function > Looks

>>31012585
Ar15 carbine - adjustable stock

>>31012580
Not that I've really kept up with the F90 project, but did they keep going with the option to use a metal STANAG in them?
Proprietary mags are a bit dumb to begin with, when they don't free-fall on eject is also a shit.

>>31012395
The problem is the reduced velocity with M139, which reduces fragmentation.

>>31012358
Honestly, it'd be great.
Keep the Steyrs for armoured, but a T2 would be a great option.

>>31012597
Thats an ammo issue, not weapon, and easily fixed/changed. Besides we use F1ball in Aus.

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>>31009097
nothing to see here

>>31012379
>that chrome against tan against olive khaki colour scheme

my fucking eyes are bleeding

>>31012342
>adding 23.5 inches of rail space

They couldn't just M-LOK the living shit out of it?

>>31012597
its an fmj round, its not really that effective on non body armored fuckers.

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>>31012337
>>31012339
Your bullpups a shit, superior bullpup coming through
>>31012435
>the bullpup is a fixed stock due to the location of the working parts. ar15s are not, which allows the soldier to adjust his stock to suit his build or requirements
>Implying bullpups can't have adjustable stocks like standard rifles
VHS called, they say they want you to check your facts
>http://www.hs-produkt.hr/en/vhs-2/

>>31010112
What if you fusion/combine the two?

>>31012541
>So train right handed? Now you cant use your dominant eye
>What is cross dominant aiming

>>31012337
Is this the Russian p90?

>>31012636
Wow that looks like shite. Wonder how much weight and lenght they added to make it adjustable? More than a carbine? Thats dosnt really seem a rifle for soldiers m8. Its fine to have a bullpup fetish, just dont force it on grunts

>>31012571
>Fully ambidextious
Unless you made a model that can have the bolt turned, it isn't.

>>31012650
Expecting grunts to compensate for the flawed design of the tool? We already have enough pineapples thrown at us, just give us a fucking break.

>>31009228
don't worry senpai
everyone will use m16 and glock soon enuf

>>31012636
That magazine is sitting pretty low, imagine it being fucking annoying.

>>31012658
Welcome to the modern definition of "asthetics", it sucks. Depends on the model, K2 is shorter than a FAMAS and fully extended would be about an inch longer. Your typical M16 weighs 3.26 kg on average unloaded, thr VHS K2 weighs about 3.75 kg, differences in American units is one pound when unloaded.

>>31012671
Pretty much the only issue, dunno how the Armenian SF dealt wih it in Nagoroh Karabahk, but they convinced the Ministry of Defense to replace the AK-74 rifles with conversion kits. Turns out the order got cancelled cuz Russia sent a better deal with discounted AK-74s, so the MoD decided to save more dosh and ditch the replacement with buying the 74s.

>>31012673

Are you the fucker from the French 416 vs SCAR thread that didn't know what "length of pull" meant?

>>31012673
One pound less 15km into a stomp makes a difference.

>>31012631
M139 is very effective at high velocities, shit shatters like glass and is basically a death sentence.

Out of a 16" Barrel it still fragments, but nowhere near as much, out of a 10" barrel, you really need hollow points to impart the same amount of lethal force.

This is where 7N6 is a really good round, it tumbles on impact quite efficiently, causing similar wound patterns to M39 whilst using a much light and smaller cartridge.
Barrel length doesn't affect it.

>>31012684
The weight is much closer to your body though.
Ask anybody from the transitional era about which gun they'd rather huck on a march and a lot will prefer the Austeyr.

>>31012702
Yea sure, the SLR is heavier. But a carbine version? or a m4/clone? Pretty sure the m4 weights similar too, if not lighter than the austyr

>>31012721
FAL 50.63 - 3.79kg
F88 - 3.6kg
M4 - 3.4kg
f90 - 3.39kg

>>31012740
and ammo weight?

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>>31010200

The SA80 is an acquired taste.

who wants to spoonfeed me info on the new NZ rifle replacement?

>>31012778

what is that fucking eotech for.

>>31012824
You can use the thermal shifting on it like a thermometer.

>>31012721
The M4 is lighter, but the F88 is a much more compact package.

>>31012824
Grenade sight
Before you ask, I don't know

>>31012803
Whats to spoonfeed? Its an M4. A gucci one, but nothing new.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LkXLrHLYfw

>>31012860
Not by much. And as stated, m4s short barrel will not affect accuracy or lethality, and the weapon is has an adjustable stock so soldiers of different statue or requirements can change it as needed.

>>31012680
who?

>>31012049
Good to know about lanolin. I put it in my homemade bore cleaner and believe it helps reduce fouling.

Not surprising CLP doesn't excel at protecting. I tend to think it does its job in descending order of effectiveness: it is an OK cleaner, a middle of the pack lube, and a lousy protectant. People yammer on about it because the Marines use it, but their supply chain is a little more complex than most people have at home and their use and clean intervals are as well.

>>31012740
Maybe for the more compact FAL, but the full sized animal is around 4.5kg give or take a few bits and unloaded, they are quite a big old lump to lug around for any length of time.
Bomb up with a couple of hundred rounds and you'll really know its there after 10km.

>>31012927
That what ive been saying this whole thread. Fuck off bullpups and give us a decent carbine rifle

>>31010200
The SA-80 and the FAMAS look sexy as hell.

>>31012778
They're actually a fairly nice shooting gun, possibly more accurate than an M4 as well but a big old thing.

>>31012934
You'll carry your EF88 and damn well like it!

>>31012962
No fuck you sir!
Fuck you dmo
Fuck you thales
FUCK YOU AUSTRIA! YOU GODAMN EVIL BASTARDS

>>31012975
And fuck that nding fucker at 3bde. RIP.

>>31012261
maybe because the platform can be modified easily and readily with such a wide amount of aftermarket support?

>>31012975
Get in that M113, I don't care what you smell and if its made of aluminium cans!

>>31012917

Some faggot half a week ago in the French procurement thread got triggered when I mentioned that the VHS isn't a valid option for anything because its length of pull is three miles long, and then we got into a post chain that lasted like four replies until he finally spoke up enough to reveal that he thought the important part was overall length.

>>31011111
saves more weight than that, 4-6 ounces from what I can find. More for 20 inch heavy barrels. It's nice saving that weight without getting as flexible/warpy as a pencil barrel.

The heat transfer from increased surface area is pretty insignificant. Fluted barrels get get better cooling because the fluting is closer to the bore, which is usually hotter. The higher the difference in temp between the hot (barrel) and cold (air) objects, the faster heat will transfer.

It's objectively better, if only a little, so the big question is cost. It's around $50 for commercial barrel fluting. It's up to you if it's worth it. For a range gun hell naw, just get a thinner barrel. But for a combat rifle I think I'd go for it.

>>31012996
>he finally spoke up enough to reveal that he thought the important part was overall length
this is why you don't argue
why are bullpuppers so dang frustrating

>>31012522
You spend fuck all and bludge off everyone else, wake up to reality.