Just read in the paper here in Switzerland that LM wants to sell

>>30967814
Hopefully we get the F-35, so that for once our army isn't half a century late on the rest of the world. And please no retarded votation again, most idiots, competent people should make the decision, not idiots and leftists who would fall for the Sprey memes.

>>30967814
I read that the Gripen was rejected due to political pressure from the US. They knew that if the Swiss Air Force were forced to reject Gripens, they would be obligated to purchase the F-35.

>>30967935
Different anon here
Wouldn't surprise me in the least. It's pretty much American SOP-kill the competition and you win.
What other options are there? Buying new F-15s?

>>30967814

Are you sure your voters rejected Gripen and not entire F-5 replacement program?

Your F-18's should be good until 2030 or so.

On positive side of things. Your fighter replacement program isn't fucked over by EU. Offset trades in EU are now banned as obstacles to free trade and EU companies are very limited in offering domestic return of investment in EU. Americans can offer offset trades as part of their fighter offers.

>>30967935

It was rejected by Swiss voters. I'll doubt LockheedMartin controls European lefties as proxies.

>>30967814
Yeah. RSAF(singapore) also cancelled the procurement of F35, because of some liberal budget cuts.
Feelsbad
>>30967935
Can y'all put pressure on us to buy more F35s please ?

>>30967814
>rejected via referendum
wat?

>>30967814
Like fuck wed use money on that thing.
>>30968417
Democracy do you live it!!!!!!

>>30967814

You need a modern Air Force to retain N-E-U-T-R-A-L-I-T-Y!

Come on Switzerland, give freedom a chance! Just remember, no refunds.

>>30968448
Fuck off. Well be ditching your stingers soon too. Fuck you making us keep them classified secret material and checking in on them ever so often just that you send them to some random goatfucker in the sandbox. American stuff is just too much of a hassle in general, (M109, M113, F/A 18)

>>30968422
so you can fly a microwave or a fridge, coz grandma Helga thinks so? where's Aladeen when you need one.

>>30968467
>Gripen
>microwave or a toaster

Strawman

Also unlike in the US our democracy is not yet broken by moronic populism as of yet.

>>30968481
It's about the flying piano meme.

>>30968502
>mfw when you were in the wire for too long and loose your memes

>>30967814
>we need to sell f35's to justify outrageous costs
fuck you, you did it to yourselves
neutrality also means economics

why no eurofighter?

>>30968804
http://www.vsww.ch/publika/Sipol_Sicherung_des_Luftraums_20154.pdf

>>30967942
I'm fairly sure the pressure came from France. France is desperate to sell Rafales, and they would be the next logical choice. Their air force trials and specifications seems to have been tailormade for the Rafale, and there was overwhelming support and shilling for the Rafale in media/AF officials.

My 2 cents. I dont really care either way.

>>30967814
At this point buying into anything but the F-35 if you can is kind of dumb. Especially the Swiss-16E.

>>30970523
Fuck, meant Swede.

>>30968612
>price similar to current gen4.5 aircraft

>>30967935
NATO should all be using the same fighters anyways.

It's retarded to have military incomptibility for an alliance that standardized ammunition.

>>30970681
[citation needed]

>>30967814
No one rejected the Gripen in the referendum you dumbass.

>>30967814
Why does Switzerland even need an air force? Why not just pack the mountains with missiles?

>>30970881
>Why does Switzerland even need an air force? Why not just pack the mountains with missiles?

There's something to be said for not needing to wait for your enemies to come to you. The F-35 is remarkably capable as a battlefield coordinator as well.

>>30970917
Do you ever foresee a situation where Switzerland will be launching airstrikes on Germany or Italy or France? I don't.

>>30970936
>Do you ever foresee a situation where Switzerland will be launching airstrikes on Germany or Italy or France? I don't.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_interdiction

>>30970959
As if Swiss air force will be alive after the first 5 minutes of any war.

>>30967935
No, the voters rejected the Gripen.

>>30967814
The F-35 would be a pointless choice for Switzerland. Gripens (even though the voters rejected them) or new Super Hornets make the most sense.

>>30971035
>Less capable, more expensive planes are the better choice

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>>30971010

It's not that easy to destroy air force that isn't arab air force.

>>30971020

No, it's way more likely that they rejected the F-5 replacement.

Be delusional froggies, general public doesn't give a fuck about what pilots or staff officers recommend. Pilots wanted Rafale, staff officers were convinced only offered fighter Switzerland could afford was Gripen. Lefties considered both pointless as overall idea of having airforce.

>>30971285
The voters explicitly rejected purchasing Gripens. It's literally that simple.

>>30971020
>>30971253
The voters did not reject the Gripen by name, they rejected the entire F-5 replacement program.

>>30970695

You do know that they are not in NATO do you?

>>30971253
A Super Hornet is not more expensive than an F-35 and there is no reason for a country not legally allowed to send forces abroad for military operations to have a top-of-the-line stealth fighter-bomber.

>>30971253
>more expensive
Where did this meme come from?

>>30971303
Which the government had already indicated was going to be the Gripen.

>>30971340
[citation needed]

Most people aren't educated enough in random military tech to even know what a Gripen is.

>>30971253
A Super Hornet is $63 million flyaway in 2016 dollars.

The F-35A, the cheapest F-35 variant will bottom out around $85 million around 2018.

>>30971362
You're conflating two different things and don't even understand that you're doing it.

>>30971364
So a 1970s aircraft for $60 mil vs 2016 aircraft for $85, what a tough choice.

>>30971377
> Super Hornet
> 1970s
Kill yourself.

>>30971377
There was only 11 years separating the first flight of the Super Hornet from the first flight of the F-35.

>>30971340
Yes but the ballot did not ask the voters "Do we want the Gripen?"
It asked them "Do we need new fighters?"
Had they voted on the Gripen they could easily just have bought a competitor.
Now they have to do a dance around the ballot to get a new fighter and the Gripen is a top contender.

>>30971253
We're talking about a neutral country that isn't even allowed to apply military force outside its own borders you fucking dipshit.

>>30971364
>The F-35A, the cheapest F-35 variant will bottom out around $85 million around 2018.

Lmao it's $95 million for the airframe without the engine or spare equipment. Not even flyaway cost.

The Super Hornet (flyaway) is $65-70 million with everything included as you state.

There's not a great reason Switzerland should get the F-35. I would buy the Gripen for monetary reasons or Eurofigher for political reasons since Germany and other users are right next door.

>>30971374
The people did not reject the Gripen. That's all I'm fucking saying.
You assume because the government thought it would get the Gripen, then the people thought so as well even though nowhere on the referendum did it mention the Gripen.

>>30971010

Are you doubting American Engineering™?

>>30971429
So you didn't even read what I said, despite directly quoting it. Neato.

Oh, and the Gripen E/F runs $100 million per unit, which -- spoiler -- is more expensive than an F-35A will be and more expensive than a Super Hornet is.

>>30971412
11 years and one generation.

>>30971478
> intentionally ignoring the entire point because he got proven wrong
Just another day on the shitpile that /k/ has become.

>>30971467
>Oh, and the Gripen E/F runs $100 million per unit, which -- spoiler -- is more expensive than an F-35A will be
>costs for aircraft that have not even been delivered yet
plz

Also, without knowing HOW those figures are calculated, they are worthless.

>>30971494
The entire point is that it's borderline retarded to buy a 4th gen for marginal savings when one F-35 will btfo 10 Super Hornets at just 150% of the cost.

>>30971500
You mean the cost given to Brazil by Saab itself? Yeah, those totally don't count.

Get fucked you willfully ignorant piece of shit.

>>30971467
No. I explicitly read it.

The F-35A AIRFRAME cost circa LRIP 8 was $95 million. The F-35A engine was $13 million as of LRIP 7. If the Gripen E/F unit cost is $100 million, then the current F-35A unit cost is higher.

>>30971514
The point has become that you aren't even aware of the fact that Switzerland is neutral.

>>30971519
Which is why I said the F-35 in 2018, not today you illiterate chimp.

Jesus titty-fucking Christ, you don't even read the lines you quote.

>>30971516
Read what I wrote and use your brain you stupid fucking nigger.
SAAB quotes a price for a system but does it refer to the lifetime cost, does it include support structures, spares, training, ground maintenance equipment or whatever?
Same goes for the F-35 and given that both planes are still in development for many customers the prices may still change.
Without knowing the facts behind the figure it's worthless.

>>30971537
Okay? I wasn't making an argument that you were wrong. I was simply providing CURRENT figures and not PROJECTIONS.

>>30971298

Voters rejected replacing F-5's. It wasn't voted down by people that care about national defense, it was voted down by leftists who prefer that tax money spent on gibmedats.

>>30971578
Saab told the Brazilians the planes themselves would run $100 million per unit. Don't deny facts because of your own insufferable ignorance you worthless fucking piece of shit.

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>>30971578
>Same goes for the F-35

If so, then the F-35B's for Britain are over $180 million each for airplane+support.

>>30971526
>Switzerland is neutral so they don't need to buy quality aircraft
Do you need me to explain step by step why you are retarded? Will it help?

>>30971595
>per unit

This can include lifetime costs or just be the flyaway cost.
Mind specifying?

>>30971595
[citation needed]
Also, you still fail to comprehend what I'm trying to say to you but sadly I can't put it in simpler words for you. You must be several degrees of retarded.

>>30971597

Define support, nonner.

>>30971364
>A Super Hornet is $63 million flyaway in 2016 dollars.

The US bought 5 Super Hornets in 2016 with a flyaway cost of $70 million each.