Can someone explain something to me? Why do all these youtubere

>>30795890

because there's only one trigger pull to learn?

and that's not always practical.

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>>30795890
It's a pretty simple concept, but here, I made this chart for you.

>Can't you just cock back the hammer and fire it like a single action?
If you view a handgun as an emergency back up weapon, then it's poorly advised to assume that you'll have enough time or dexterity to do this. Real life is not like in the movies.

>>30795910

there are very few DA/SA pistols that don't have a safety. and the CZs and Tanfos have to be decocked by letting the hammer down manually, which always struck me as inherently unsafe.

>>30795910
The CZ can be carried cocked.

Is this a meme or something?

>>30795931
>there are very few DA/SA pistols that don't have a safety.
What? Re-read my chart. I didn't say anything about "have." I said "need."

>and the CZs and Tanfos have to be decocked by letting the hammer down manually, which always struck me as inherently unsafe.
OK.

>>30795938
Are you a retard or something?

Just because a gun exists that gives you two options for how to carry it doesn't mean that it's impossible to describe each mode of carry. With the CZ 75, there isn't some sort of hybrid mode of carry unique to that pistol. You have the option to carry it one way or the other. You can carry it in SAO mode with the safety on or you can carry it DA/SA with the safety off.

>>30795961
The glock has a weird ass trigger. Is the tradeoff of the dual trigger worth having to switch a little safety?


Btw I'm new to shooting.

>>30795987
Everyone needs to decide that on their own. If there was one clear answer, then there would only be one type of handgun.

>>30795995
Can the trigger on a striker fire ever be as good as the trigger on a da/sa? Or will a da/sa always be a better trigger?

Because your chart says YES for second pull or cocked and loaded and pretty good for striker fire.

>>30796047
It's not impossible to make a good striker-fire handgun trigger. John Browning did it with some of his early pocket pistols. However, with modern service pistols, almost all of them leave something to be desired when compared to a good hammer-fired trigger.

>>30796069
So the best striker fire design will never be as good as the best sa/da.

>>30796118
These are all generalizations. The average person isn't going to carry "the best" of anything.

>>30796134
What handgun manufacturer makes the highest quality triggers and has the highest quality control / machining?

>>30795910
"striker fired trigger = pretty good"

Get your shit outa here. Striker fired triggers are shit.

>>30796156
What a terrible post.

Compared to a double action trigger pull, which is heavy and long, a Glock trigger, with a shorter, lighter pull is much better.

I don't really see this as a disadvantage....
Rather have DA/SA hammered than striker.

The only con is the hammer can be interrupted by debris, or interference.

>>30796152
All I have to say in response to this question is, welcome to /k/. Pull up a lawn chair, get yourself a drink, and settle in. This is the subject of endless debate here.

>>30796168
That's a good point. In a hand to hand range someone can wedge their finger between the hammer.

>>30796171
I'm sure there must be the best manufactured pistol. We're talking like a Kia vs a Benz.

What is the Benz of pistol manufacturers?

>>30796285
Lurk more.

>>30796285
LaRue if you want to over pay for custom work.
Kimber if you want to over pay for pot metal.
Now GIT OUT

>>30796288
Someone said it was a sig sauer. They are Swiss. I just don't like the name.

>>30796306
Sig Sauer is not Swiss.

>>30796306
Just gtfo pls

>>30796314
It says they're Swiss on Wikipedia.

>>30796353
Wikipedia is wrong.

>>30796359
It's Swiss, deal with it.

>>30796302
What's the most expensive mass produced sa/da pistol?

>>30796364
Sig Sauer is headquartered in Germany, the parent company is Sig arms which is swiss.

Sig Sauer is not Sig arms.

>>30796372
the X6 maybe?

>>30796364
You stupid ass.

Israeli carry a CZ
>consistency from the first shot without dealing with a hard to pull trigger
>can use versacarry without shooting yourself in the balls

Hammer fired pistols are the the revolvers of today when compared to striker fired. i.e. they're obsolete.

You literally lose nothing other than
-typically a shitty double action
-extra parts for the hammer
-typically a more open gun rather than striker mechanisms which are enclosed and keep dirt and grime better

The only thing there is to lose are the "really nice triggers" which are debatable.

>>30796509
Isn't a trigger literally the most important part?

If you sacrifice a certain amount millisecond to take off safety for a smooth trigger, which means accuracy, I'm not sure if the tradeoff would benefit your survivability or not. And it only applies to the first shot.

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>>30795910

I disagree with the assertion that DA triggers are bad.

They are harder to master, certainly, but people have been shooting 25 yard bullseye matches for decades with double action revolvers. If you can master a DA revolver (which isn't that hard), then you will be a better shooter across the board.

Short and light is not the same thing as good.

>>30795890
>Can't you just cock back the hammer and fire it like a single action?

I believe that a gun should be used the way it was designed to be used.

So, if you have a Beretta 92, it should be carried with the hammer down, safety on.

The "manual of arms" should be

>grip in holster
>flip off safety
>draw, fire from DA
>Decock when done with shots
>activate safety if re-holstering
>leave safety off if you think you might still need to shoot and gun is still in hand

If this seems cumbersome, than you should not be using a Beretta 92 series.

>>30795931

I have an old Bereatta 84 with no decocker.

Great shooter, and I'm comfy with manual decock, but there is no reason why any modern DA doesn't have one.

I originally bought the gun as a possible gift for a co-worker, but I can't see giving a beginner a gun with this quirk.

>>30795890
Range queens pull the trigger really slow and notice small differences in trigger pulls. If you train practically you don't notice the trigger as much, because you're not going to pull it slowly when you're in an emergency. "The trigger is spongy/sandy" do not come into play, however a long trigger pull might, if you've ever shot a ruger lc9 before the striker model came out you know what I mean.

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If you can't put the gun in any pocket without a holster without it randomly going off at times then you're fucked.

DA/SA action all day baby.

Has anyone here ever fucking tried the da on a walther ppks holy mother of fuck. Probably the worst trigger I have ever felt plus I couldn't even tell you where it goes off at.

>>30798450
>should be carried with the hammer down, safety on

No. Nobody who knows what they're doing does this with a Beretta. It should be carried hammer down, safety off, in a good holster that covers the trigger guard. Hammer down, safety on is fine for storage or handling the weapon outside of its holster, but it is not how you want to carry a DA/SA pistol. The 92G wouldn't even exist if you weren't supposed to carry hammer down, safety off.

>Decock when done with shots
>activate safety if re-holstering

Activating the safety on a Beretta IS what decocks the gun. These are not separate steps. After decocking the gun, you need to flip the safety back off again to make the gun ready to fire. The fact that you don't even understand how a Beretta functions tells me you're talking out of your ass.

>>30795995
No there wouldn't retard, there would still be the diversity we see because guns aren't solely for efficient use

>>30798770

First of all, those steps aren't opinion, they are the rules of several branches of the US Military.
The entire reason a 92G exists, is for a customer base that wants a different manual of arms. They 92F doesn't have a safety so people could use it when it's in storage. You literally proved yourself wrong. John Q. Public isn't the main target customer for a gun like a 92F, but miltary and police forces. Least common denominator users that are issued weapons, but may not have much experience or minimal training. Safety needs are placed above combat effectiveness.

As to your second point, don't such a literal autist. I'm not going to describe every muscle movement.

>enemy down, I think it's clear, time to decock, but I want it ready in case I'm wrong

>Enemy down, 100% safe, no more problems, time to decock and put on safe.

Was that so hard to understand?

I'm sorry that you think your 92F is an elite pistol of the the world's best fighters. It is a good and reliable gun, but it has, and always will be designed around the draftees/conscripts/poorly trained users who are more likely to shoot themselves in the foot before they use it in actual combat.

>>30795931
One thing I like about my da/sa baretta cougar is that the thumb safety is also the decocker and rotates the firing pin out of the way in one motion. Very slick design. I think the px4 also uses this design.

>>30798670
This is my only reservation about Strikers, despite having a Ruger American Pistol, I can't decock the fucker while a round is chambered and I can't cock the striker without racking the slide.

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>>30799327
>this is the way the military does it, so you should too!

You're acknowledging that the option to carry hammer down, safety on is there for poorly trained grunts who don't know what they're doing. I said that nobody who KNOWS what they're doing carries a Beretta this way. You're spouting military safety protocol designed to keep retards from shooting each other and/or themselves like it's some golden rule that all must abide by. I'm "literally" proving myself wrong... how, exactly? No need to answer that question--it's rhetorical!


>time to call him an autist and start backpedaling!

I copied and pasted your exact greentext. I'm not asking for a description of "every muscle movement," I'm pointing out the fact that you are adding unnecessary steps because you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. You're telling me your opinion is the only right one because MUH TROOPS, but you can't even explain how they do it properly.

And I never even implied that the Beretta was an "elite" pistol, I don't know where you got that idea. It's outdated and overbuilt, a sexy piece of fun 80s action movie history that really has no place in a modern military. I love Berettas, but you're going to have to work around the flaws if you intend to use them seriously. The design of the safety is one of those flaws, and anyone who knows their shit would be able to recognize that carrying with the safety on is redundant and potentially more dangerous than not having the safety at all should you ever actually need to use the damn gun.

Fuck off, you're just embarrassing yourself.

>>30795910
Just because it's striker fired doesn't mean it's sao/dao/da-sa or anything else for that matter.
>what is P99

>>30799953
This is a stupid post. Exceptions don't prove the rule.

The OP genuinely doesn't understand the concept. This is one of the few circumstances when generalizations are the best way to explain something.

The other half dozen people in this thread trying to think up some gun that is an exception to these generalizations needs to seriously fuck off and die. Yeah, we get it. You're really smart for knowing about the Walther P99. Now go stick one in your mouth and swallow a bullet.

>>30798966
You're an idiot.

>>30798418
>the assertion
This is what liberals call your point when they don't agree with it.

>They are harder to master, certainly
Then that means they are harder to shoot and therefore bad. Idiot. Thanks for proving me right.

>Short and light is not the same thing as good.
You're mistaking shooter skill for trigger quality, and I don't want to get into this whole, big topic, but yes, short and light is synonymous with high quality with triggers.

>>30796509
>Hammer fired pistols are the the revolvers of today when compared to striker fired. i.e. they're obsolete.
False equivalence.

>You literally lose nothing other than
>-typically a shitty double action
The H&K LEM doesn't have a double action pull or a manual safety.
>-extra parts for the hammer
Wrong and also retarded. You can't "convert" a hammer-fired pistol to striker-fire by subtracting the hammer from the design.
>-typically a more open gun rather than striker mechanisms which are enclosed and keep dirt and grime better
Wrong. Hammer-fired designs perform inherently better when covered in mud and dirt due to the nature of the design. The ability to re-strike the firing pin with subsequent blows of the hammer gives hammer-fired pistols an advantage to knocking dirt free; whereas, once the striker channel gets grit in it, a Glock/VP9/Kahr is dead.
>The only thing there is to lose are the "really nice triggers" which are debatable.
Nope. Not debatable. Factual.

>>30796364
>>30796353
>>30796306
>retarded noguns acting like a know-it-all

Now I've seen everything.

>>30796479
How is that any better?

>flip off safety and pull trigger

>rack the slide and pull the trigger

It's the same number of steps except you need to use your other hand with Israeli carry.

>>30799833


Let me try this one more time for the mentally impaired.

>The design of the 92F isn't a short coming
>It is built to the demands of the customer
>92G is built to the demands of other potential customers

Now you're all squirreled out and mad because you think I care one bit about about how you do anything with your guns. Rest assured, I do not. Use the safety. Don't use the safety. No one here cares.

"And I never even implied that the Beretta was an "elite" pistol"

>a sexy piece of fun 80s action movie history
>I love Berettas
>sperg out like a child when the idea of using the safety is mentioned

No, you are not attached at all. You are absolutely the picture of cool, calm, and collected.

It's ok you like Berettas. I gave my 92F away to a friend, because I'm a nice guy, and I know it's a reliable gun. He has been an Air Force pilot for 15 years, so he does regular training on that model, so it was an easy gift to give.

Lets just cut to the chase.

I stated an opinion that I like to use guns according to their design. You don't, and flipped out because you feel slighted, even though you and I will never meet. You can shoot/carry/suck on your guns any which way. It is irrelevant to me. You can say I don't know what I'm talking about, and maybe you'll sleep better tonight, but it won't. You'll still be insecure because some stranger mentioned something about the manual of arms for a 92F.

If you don't want to use the safety, I don't care. However, this ENTIRE THREAD was started by someone asking why couldn't they just cock the hammer.

I answered pretty clearly, but somehow you've taken it like I called your Mother a whore. You should get less worked up over this kind of stuff.

Tell you what. You are right, and I'm wrong. You know more about gun design than anyone at Beretta, and have more skill than me or anyone else. I will probably get killed in a home invasion or mugging because I didn't heed your wise advice.

Feel better?

>>30800998

As if conservatives don't catch enough grief for being less educated, you just politically attacked someone for using a completely apt word. Maybe less time on /pol would be a good idea? MAGA!

>Stick shift is harder than manual transmission
>drawing is harder than tracing
>being a cuck is easier than fucking your wife
>light triggers are easier than learning trigger control

And millennials wonder why everyone calls them lazy and entitled.

You think short and light means quality?
You think easy means good?
I can't begin to help you with that worldview.
However, if you stick with shooting, you will see in time that a quality trigger on a gun can be found in a revolver as easily as a 1911.

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>>30801281
>I can't begin to help you

>>30800998
>being ignorant is easier than learning
Learning is bad
>sitting is easier than exercise
Exercise is bad
>being quiet is easier than talking
talking is bad

>>30796386
I don´t think that´s mass-produced

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>>30801473

>>30795890
>youtuberes
Youtube operators use what's in stile. Don't pay attention to them. Find what works for your needs, environment and most of all WHAT YOU LIKE. Then buy ammo and train train train. Then buy more ammo and rinse repeat.

>>30798670
Are you fucking retarded? Guns don't just "go off randomly"

>>30795987
Glock trigger, you don't notice the blade safety.

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>>30796272

This is copypasta. Please stop responding to this thread.

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>>30801076
>Colt Python as "the Rolls-Royce of Colt revolvers"
anon rebutted that it was designed for retard grunts so, no, he doesn't use it 'as it was designed' but consider the fact that it was also designed to function in the manner he described

>>30805479
>>30805479misquote
>I stated an opinion that I like to use guns according to their design. You don't,

>>30800969
It's not just a the P99, there are other pistols. Glock is the only one I know of that doesn't strictly fall into any of the categories. PPQ for example is strictly single action only.

>>30806978
the point
.
.
.
-----------------the floor----------------------
.
.
.
your head

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ITT: strikerbabbies that can't begin to concieve the concept of having a heavier initial trigger pull and can't shoot anything more than a 4lb trigger for shit

>>30795890
What exactly is inherently wrong with a double action?

Is it something that you can't master?

If you take the best shooter on single action and the best shooter on double action which is more accurate?

If it's just learning to shoot a double action, and the double action is not flawed, then da/sa really has no disadvantages.

>>30808154
Glocks have a 5.5lb trigger

Just sayin'

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>>30810744
>If it's just learning to shoot a double action, and the double action is not flawed, then da/sa really has no disadvantages.

If the human brain is an inherent limitation, then the DA/SA system, which has a higher cognitive requirement of the shooter, is flawed. And before you start ranting as others have already done in the thread to ill effect on the discussion, I'm not talking about target shooting or competition shooting where it's easy to gain full control of all your thoughts like a zen master and there is always a chance to "re-do." I'm talking about when a crazy, drug-addled, cop-hating BLM bastard starts running at you with a sharp knife aimed at your jugular, and your whole body goes numb with fear, reaching for your gun out of instinct alone and you're just HOPING that you've practiced your draw stroke and your trigger control well enough to not miss your first and second shots because that's all you have to go on - there is no conscious control of your gun, it's purely on autopilot at this point... If it's me, I'd want every advantage I can get. Short trigger pull, light, crisp break, consistency every time, no manual safety.

>>30796152
a custom one?

>>30811448
If you take one robot and program him to shoot SA and take another robot and program him to shoot DA they should be equally proficient.

Therefore a human with enough training should be equally proficient.

Don't turn your laziness into an argument.

>>30812493
>humans are robots
This is a strawman, and therefore not an argument. It also wasn't my point to bring up that association by posting that webm, by the way. MY point is that the human brain is not a well-oiled, perfectly rational machine. If you listen to cops who were involved in shootings describing their experiences, it's totally different from normal target practice. Many of your normal cognitive functions either shut down or are severely limited under that kind of stress. I think the brain IS a limiting factor, which is a very relevant point in selecting the handgun that will demand the least of it.

Don't turn your laziness into an argument.