So how does the Russian military technology compare to the US?

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>>30791117
>"are they on par?"
>"do they surpass?"

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>>30791117

>>30791117
It is hard to say as everything we see about them in the media is entertainment or fed through a biased news channel.

Even their Special Forces debacles are not fair to examine because a lot of those situations were essentially Kobiyashi Maru-Tier operations. At the end of the day they are men and women who, like us or any one state in the world, will not let their way of life be challenged by outside force. The measure of their resolve has ultimately been untested.

>>30791346
>dat Ethnocentrism
Much uneducated. Wow.

>>30791365
... um... it is a legitimate weapons related question.

>>30791454
It isn't ethnocentrism to laugh at the notion that the Russian armed forces aren't anywhere near parity with the US in anything but a few niche areas like SAM systems.

To make a long story short, they have inferior technology in just about everything except for missiles, where they roughly have parity with the US.

That said, there aren't that many things that actually need their military for these days, it's mostly a dickwaving thing.

>>30791117
No and definitely no. Next question?

No Ivan, vodka is not an instrument.

No, neither is bring WW2 machines back to life.

>>30791117
They just started issuing socks for the first time ever in like 2013 or 14 or something.

>>30791485
>bring WW2 machines back to life.
Tell that to the Israeli's re-purposed Shermans (not sure if still in use, sadly).

>>30791454
>Much uneducated. Wow.
the Russians and their military in all aspects is a joke.

>>30791365 #
>"... um... it is a legitimate weapons related question."
The Russians and their military in all aspects is a joke.

>>30791502
Not that theres really anything inherently wrong with footwraps. They can be way more convenient than socks if you get the technique for them right.

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>>30791454
>He used ethnocentrism unironically
I bet you use "words" like privilege too.

>>30791502
>>30791535

I was thinking this was surely a joke... but then I googled it.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/shortcuts/2013/jan/16/russian-soldiers-replacing-foot-wraps-socks

Son-of-a-bitch.

>and of course, now I want to try wraps for history's sake

>>30791117
No

I laugh when liberals think Russia could take over Europe

>>30791526
They're nowhere near parity with the US obviously, but dismissing it as a joke is pure shitposting.

That being said, there are variations of this thread on /k/ constantly, lurk more before posting a thread next time, OP.

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The short answer: they really aren't comparable.

The long answer: Soviet and US/NATO tech are designed with totally different doctrine and particular needs.

The NATO side requires a lot of shipping and air power because of its geography.

USSR (and now the Russian Federation) had a massive amount of land and airspace to cover. As such, they needed gargantuan amounts of air defense and ground forces.

So the NATO side had/has excellent aircraft and technology to get around/counter Soviet air defense, and built their navies to escort merchant shipping a traffic as well as conduct your WWII Pacific Theater-style operations.

The Soviets were all about numerical superiority and overwhelming enemy forces by way of massive armor and mechanized infantry advances protected by some fighters, but mostly mobile ground-based air defenses.

These are two entirely different doctrines meant to counter one another.

Individually, are Russian tanks as good as their Western counterparts? No. But would a Patton/Abrams/Chieftain/Challenger/Leopard fight against a T-64/-72/-80 on a one-to-one ratio? Absolutely not.

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RATNIK is pretty cool I guess

>>30791526
>the Russians and their military in all aspects is a joke.

Is that so? So tell me what is it that is preventing the Syrian regime to fall? The will of God?

>>30791547
I understand your insult, but from a grandfather who was a mechanic and owned a tire shop... I am more horrified by the condition of that tire... fucker is asking for a blowout. I have even seen a front tire shred and whip up to take out the side view mirror; thank G-d the driver had the window up!

oh yes and a bringing up the sexual perversion that has become popular recently... totally "look mom i posted it again" tier.

Troglodyte.

>>30791535
Don't try to cover it up, it's poorfag/muhheritage-tier to the max. If it were for ceremonial/guard units or something, alright fine, but the fact that it went on for as long as it did as standard and probably still is happening in the less important units, along with those old school slip on boots, is pure poorfag/good enough slav logic.

>>30791557
Well historically they had manpower for the meat grinder tactic... that is still a possibility right?

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>>30791574
Gorka is friend.

>>30791588
Dont knock em till you try em. They can easily be more comfy than socks.

>>30791572
>Individually, are Russian tanks as good as their Western counterparts? No. But would a Patton/Abrams/Chieftain/Challenger/Leopard fight against a T-64/-72/-80 on a one-to-one ratio? Absolutely not.

Best Post in thread... and that last bit made me have goosebumps

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>>30791599
>nyet

the russians always had to steal tech but they were also always damn good at doing more with less.

more primitive than western tech but arguably just as effective, and of course, always cheaper.

ivan is clever.

>>30791576
its not the biggest accomplishment helping a regime that is fighting room temperature IQ goat farmers with surplus AKs and Toyotas

literally any European nation would accomplish as much as the vatniks did

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>>30791117
US can spend a lot of money on R&D, production and development of all kind of stuff. So, take things, that US almost monopolized on markets - micro-technology, thermal and IR matrices, advanced optical systems, precision engineering and machinery, e.t.c. This things Russians can not do better because they have no market to return required extremely high amounts of money.
So, things, that Russians sell around the world can be better, because they have market:
AA systems - best in the world, because they are only one who invests in this thing,
laser guided systems of all kind,
anti-ship missiles,
liquid fuel missile technologies in general,
nuclear technology.
Their nuclear technologies are best in the world, despite all jokes about Chernobyl. Simply because Rosatom owns like 40% of global nuclear market. Also, things that are not required high R&D investments can be better. Russians claim that they are best in ECM and other "asymmetrical" stuff. Maybe true, maybe wrong. Those things require engineers with high math skills, you know, it's about humans there. Russians (more like Russian Jews, lol) always was good in math.

>>30791117
As much as I love their gear and weapons, no.

>>30791117
Any logistics specialists here? I know American logistics and emergency management, but I don't know how Russia's is compared to ours. It'd be to their disadvantage if they weren't at least on par, because if they were somehow worse I don't know how they'd be able to do anything.

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>>30791664
They know how to move troops fast. Also, you can open military balance and watch on size of their logistic fleet by yourself. Let's say, it's quite bigger than British.

Quantity is a quality of itself. The problem is that Russia no longer has the quantity it had during the days of the Eastern Bloc. Now, Russia is in a tough spot because they have to upgrade much of their equipment and even training to an entirely new military doctrine.

>>30791690
They are considerably more advanced in Nuclear technology though. The US has largely forgotten the nuclear program, Russia has not. Honestly, it is their best line of defense against NATO.

>>30791572

The exception is M1A2 and T-90, since the US has more M1A2 than Russia does T-90.

>>30791608

The neat part is that depending on how you wrap, you can pad parts of the foot more than a standard sock.

But of course, you can buy padded socks or sew some in.

But they are definitely slower to change, which is ehh when you have to change them often.

Also they tend to smell worse.

>>30791574
>velcro patches

gross

>>30791641
What if those goat farmers had TOW's, Stingers and other shit they arent supposed to have? + the rivers of money dumped on them to kill the regime?
Vatniks saved that regime and its a fucked up punch to take being the one who wanted and needed the regime down.
Not only that, but the vatniks were to be distracted with another clustefuck in Ukraine to not help the regime. And had the ruble shredded at the same time.
Nobody knows what they are planning next

>>30791813
Iran is also in Syria for long. Ukrainian clusterfuck is half financed and supplied by volunteers.

Doesn't Russia have a military budget that's only ~20% greater than that of the UK?

>>30791867
Their total military spending is on par with Italy.

>>30791729
>defense against NATO
>defense against a defensive organization who's military doctrine is based around defense
didn't the Russians invade Ukraine and have a history of invading their neighbors

>>30791867
don't forget their economy is the size of Spain's

>>30791916
>last time i checked Russia wasn't intentionally expanding their borders to the very edge of NATO
>NATO is playing a game of "I'm not touching you" with Russia and that's why Russia is doing so many power projection drills

>>30791916
NATO got a little too close to them once the cookies started being distributed on maidan.
I still cant understand the minds of the dumb ukrainians.
Did they actually believe that if they riot and overthrow the ruskie prezident that they will be in EU and NATO so that they can have their Gasprom debt erased, showing russia that they arent to be messed with?
It really looks like they did think like that, with the exception of them doing all the work except rioting.

>>30791948
NATO didn't tell Poland, Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia to join them or else, they did it on their own will to protect themselves from Russia. American nukes are the best soverignity insurance policy because Russia tends to be an asshole when it comes to dealing with other nations. Who's fault is it that former Warsaw Pact countries don't want Russia to turn them into puppet states again? The evil NATO American boogyman apparently.

>>30791594
Shitty economy doesn't allow you to have massive troops movements

>>30792002
>NATO didn't tell Poland, Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia to join them or else
I mean, they kinda did.

>Join us and be protected from Russia
>Don't join us and we won't protect you.

That was kinda the point.

>>30791779
You can change them in seconds if you practice it enough, still not as easily as socks of course.
They're a little easier to clean and dry over socks.

>>30792002
>Hey guys, so the USSR just fell apart, we'd appreciate it if you didn't expand into Eastern Europe
>kk, will do Russia, we promise
Less than 10 years later
>lol never mind

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>>30792238

>>30792348
What treaty was that again?

>>30792002
Brilliant. Now NATO as a whole is a hostage to whims of few former communist governments dragging alliance into war it cannot win.

>>30792397
"We gave categorical assurances to Gorbachev back when the Soviet Union existed that if a united Germany was able to stay in NATO, NATO would not be moved eastward"
-Jack Matlock

It wasn't a treaty, but the promise was still made.

>>30792533
>It wasn't a treaty
Well, there you go.

>>30792555
So we shouldn't keep our word? We should act like cunts and just do whatever we want so long as we aren't legally bound to do otherwise? Yeah, that sounds like a real great position to take.

>>30792592
Russians have lost the cold war. Losers don't get to be respected. A word given to loser isn't worth shit.

>>30792592
What word?

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>>30791578
Take 3 tablets a day for 2 weeks, and your posterior pains will subside.

>>30792533
>>30792555
US confirmed for not keeping promises, don't trust him

>>30792676
You're retarded

>>30792682
Read >>30792533

>>30791616
Not bad quality. Too expensive.

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>>30791117
Russia doesn't have as large of a military industrial complex as we do. They have good theories regarding advanced modern and even future warfare. But that is all it is. Theories. As far as armored vehicles go, russia has a LOT of them. But so did saddam, air power wins wars and USA has better air power. Russia has good A2D (Area Access Denial) With their SAM's. But those are target-able by other means like cruise missiles or special forces. Russia's Navy would be neutered quickly by many different means from USA. And this is all assuming it is exclusively a USAvsRussia war. USA ground personnel would crush Russia's. We are so much better equiped, they have better will to fight I think. Better morale (Sometimes) We have woman and gays and stuff in our military which is sort of degrading. But we have better training and much more to work with. Russia would lose. And they know this. Even if Russia had "better" military technology than the USA, they could not afford to purchase it in mass quantities. Not even in modest quantities. The Russians know this. Which is why if you read Russian military doctrine, they use the one thing that they have and we have. Nuclear weapons. Their initial strategy would be to use a tactical nuclear weapon to try to deter us. (Obama's red line) If this did not work then they would go full nuclear on us. It's the last thing they can do and also the first thing. Russia is clever, but they are not matching up to USA in direct confrontation.

>>30792987
Doesn't the USN alone have more combat aircraft than Russia?

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>>30791764
True, but unlike the US, who only uses one model of tank, Russia would have T-90s alongside -80s and some of their leftover 72s.

>>30792987
My personal favorite is how much we were worried about their navy during the cold war, only to find out after the collapse of the soviet union that it was mostly held together by duct tape and hope. The only respectable part of their navy was the nuclear subs.

I don't expect much has changed.

>>30791117
Also, on a smaller scale or military tech. Russian clothing and boots and stuff are probably about the same as USA. I have heard a lot that Russia has better body armor. But again they cannot afford the money to outfit their large army with this. I have also heard Russia has better helmet/Kevlar technology. But not all their troops are equipped with these new helmets. Some still use the old steel pot helmets from the cold war. As far as chest rigs and stuff go >>30791616, they make them great. Good quality very versatile and custumizable. But this is not comparable to the mass issue of modern body armor to USA infantry forces. RPG's will not do much to US armor forces (which even the older versions of armored vehicles have been outfitted with ways to stop Russian anti-tank weaponry) I personally like the AK better than the M4. So I think they have a better weapon system there. But not everyone thinks so. Another thing I hear if that Russia has better armor penetrating rounds for the AK, which would be able to penetrate the US commonly issue bullet resistant vests/plates. But once more, Russia does not give this to their troops. So I have heard much on this subject. And Russia at least appears to have better technology. But they are unable to use it.

>>30793024
Possibly. Even if it didn't Russian airplanes are not that great. Turkey shot down a Russian bomber no problem.....

>>30793086
Agreed.

>>30792987
how cute, a chest thumping bravado with some condescension in between to make it seem like an impartial assessment. the truth of the matter is that u.s. military doctrine overwhelimngly relies on assumption air superiority and war with russian throws that out of the window.

u.s. can't win land war against russia. can't win war against anyone but poor arabs in fact. they know it, we know it, so all you're left with is pathetic dickwaving on this taiwanese online cave painting museum

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>>30793107
>x39 special snowflake rounds will penetrate lvl 4 when x54 AP will not?
Yeah no.

>>30791117

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Auf14iXrRO0

>>30792987
>military industrial complex
military industrial university complex.

stop giving the research arm a pass.

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>>30793189
If you really are too stupid to not see the difference between the wars that were fought in Afghanistan and iraq and a would be conventional war between the US and Russia. Then you should just not comment to people. I am in the US army and it is my job to know the capabilities of our potential adversaries. The USA uses air power in some of it's doctrine because it is effective. Land only makes up 25% of the world, water makes up the other 75%. Sky is over everything. But no, Russia would lose miserably to the United States military in a ground war. Even if Air power was out of the question for both military's. I will concede that at the moment the United states military presence alone in Europe is not enough to accomplish this. But that is changing rapidly. As I said in my statement., Obama is no commander in chief. Putin has great military leadership. But they lack the equipment.

>Can't tell if trolling orrr

>>30793233
USA doesn't issue lvl 4. they issue lvl 3. I have a lvl 3+ at my house that is better than the issue shit they give us.

>>30793270
This is also an important factor. But Obama has gutted DARPA and many other research wings of the military. I am not aware of Hillary's thoughts on this subject. But I think I speak for candidate Trump when i say that he intends to re-introduce lavish funding to the research depts that the military utilizes. But such things will take time to reform and we WILL have to wait for the next commander in chief or a willing congress for any such reforms.

>no Russian shills
Wow, I'm used to them being everywhere in Russian Media and /pol/.

>>30792987
>USA ground personnel would crush Russia's.
There's this meme again. Yes, we all know the average US Gi Joe is far better trained and better equipped than your average Slav Vatnik, but the US would never be able to economically sustain the massive ground force necessary to match Russia's sheer numbers. The US's trump in any conventional war against Russian lies in its Air Power.

I'll give the Russians credit, some of the guns they make are extremely durable

Even when humans are gone and the Earth is uninhabitable, Nuggets will still be around

>>30791481
>rough parity
Oh boy.

Russia has recently started production of an initial batch of 40H6 missiles that give their AA S-400 defense system a range of 400km against actually aerodynamically maneuvering targets, not just ballistic ones. US has jack shit that could compare to that, the Patriot is a fucking joke.

Russia has also the most advanced anti-ship missiles that are capable of supersonic sea-skimming flight, while the US still relies on massed salvos of subsonic missiles.

Russia has also conducted successful Bulava ICBM launches and this missile has warheads capable of maneuvering to counter any anti-missile defenses while the US relies on outdated garbage like Tridents for their nuclear capability. And no, none of those kinetic hit-to-kill SM interceptors are capable of hitting a maneuvering target, because they're supposed to work against purely ballistic threats.

There are more areas where Russia is unmatched, but I don't care enough about this shit to explain. Now, you'll scratch your nape and throw me some wikipedia article about american 'equivalents' of those systems. But the thing is, none of them will become operational until the next decade, half won't perform as intended, and a vast majority won't ever see the light of day. While Russia maintains capability to wipe out you, the whore who gave you birth and the city you live in at this very instant.

>>30793417
US would just crush Russia then pull out. Like what it did to Saddam. But none of this will ever happen. At least not likely. Because it IS written in black in white in Russian military doctrine to immediately use nuclear weapons strategically against aggressors (USA) if they attack. And this is to all forget about chemical and biological weaponry. Which I would not be overly surprised if they figured out a way to use that to stop any invasion. You see the thing is when we talk about this hypothetical war. It always involved Russia being on the defense. On their heels. And there is a reason for this.

>>30791526

Meanwhile the US military hides under tables when mortar'd by iraqi and afghanistanis using the same shit Russia did 40 years ago

>>30793565
>US would just crush Russia then pull out.
>Like what it did to Saddam.

Sigh.

>>30793545
I agree with this anon. The USA is going to be using it's cold war tech for some time. While Russia uses (In an extremely limited capacity), Equipment it has more recently produced.

>>30793590
Sigh all you want. USA has no interests in occupying Russia.

>>30791574

more like VATNIK kek

>>30793642
Go ahead and Google Napoleon in Russia and the Ost Front for me

>implying Russia won't become superpower after USA becomes another Brazil thanks to diversity and multiculturalism

>>30791117
Surpassed a long time ago.

>>30791524
The Super Sherman M-51 (105mm armament) last saw combat with Lebanese Christians in the early 90s. Paraguay still has some for training too. The Sheman in all it's variants has a use history rivaled only by the T-34 family. Shemans also saw combat in the Balkans.

>>30793786
He just said that the US has no interest in occupying you fag. And unlike the nazis, I am pretty sure modern militarys would know that Russia is cold.

itt vatniks explaining how good SAMs is all you need

>>30794282
fat retard without air support is essentially just a fat retard

>>30791117
Surpassed a long time ago.

>>30794333
Just as stealth aircraft aren't invisible death machines killing all they see, SAMs aren't invisible death bubbles killing all they can see.

>>30793035
they still have entire bases filled with mothballed tanks back from the cold war days. Entirely operational, just fill with people, ammunition and fuel and they are good to go.

>>30794333


Can't kill what you cant see

>>30793270
Why not give the research arm a pass? The research is the only part of it that's really valuable to the rest of society, as many military innovations can be used in civilian applications.

>>30793285
>Even if Air power was out of the question
then entire u.s. armored brigades are getting obliterated left and right by multiple launch rocket barrage
then russian cruise missiles are wiping out every hq, fuel depot, bridge and transport hub in your rear
then none of regiments has any idea what happens next to it because communications are jammed
and for the sake of discussion let's totally forget how the lack of u.s. air superiority doesn't deny russians air operations of their own

if you had any comprehension of russian doctrine, if you had dedicated at least an hour studying it's history, exercises and miltiary reform instead of internet memes then you'd knew nato soldier is fucked in this war. even before every nato soldier becomes lax gay muslim nigger

>>30793120
>implying U.S. bomber would be fared better against surprise attack.

>>30795338
Well american bombers have great RWRs and Jammers standard.

>>30792676
>Russians have lost the cold war
It never ended. We're literally continuing the Cold War right now TODAY. The only difference is that our spies treat each other nicer than they did before but otherwise everything is exactly as it was 30 years ago. We went fucking nowhere.

>>30795550
>RWR and Jammers
>vs Sidewinder

>>30795595
>DIRCM for 500, alex.
>MAWs for 500, alex.

>>30795672
>DIRCM MAW
Good luck to activate DIRCM after MAW with AIM-9X close up launch

>>30791117
>>are they on par?
>> do they surpass?
hahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahhaahahhahahahahha

>>30795758
Well thats litterally its job anon, along with automatic launch of flairs.

>>30795338
A us bomber would have at least dropped a flare.

>>30795768
Jammers and flares will not have time to alter missile course with close up launch. Warhead will detonate with flares still too much close to plane.

>>30795863
You pretend like heaters are uncounterable. This is wrong.

The F-15E has TEWS, the B1 has DAS.

Both do their job well.

The Su-34 relies upon its rear radar for situational awareness, and it failed.

One interesting aspect of russian arms is the fact that they have very good quiet weapons. Its pretty insignificant in a proper war, but i find it very interesting that russia has developed weapons like the Val and Vintorez and that silent grenade launcher for spoopy Chechen murdering, even using subsonic 7.62x39 back in the cold war. The west hasn't used much more than suppressed pistol rounds.

>>30795988
>Su-34
>Su-24
learn the difference

>>30795988
>Both do their job well.
Until some t*rk dont shoot it with close up AIM-9X chanting aloha snackbar

>>30795207
how's Russia?

>>30793120
I mean, a bomber is really comparable to a fighter though.

>>30793024
Yes. More than any nation. The two largest air forces on Earth are the USAF and the USN.

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grenneday anotov suceeds m16 design.


us navy would be better suit adapting autbomatt AKM74

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>>30791117
>Conscription based military with no where near enough people to rely on the "drown them in bodies" tactic they used in WW2 and severely outdated technology
Don't get me wrong, gorka's and AK's make my willy wiggle, but they wouldn't stand a chance in an all out war with the US.

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>>30794521
they have about 8000 soviet era T-72
and they are upgrade just to B3 standard
about 500 have been upgrade

next in the line will be old T-80BV

>>30796440
They're fucked too

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>>30791572
>War with Russia has been waging for a good while now
>US has finally manage to push their way to the border
>A small tank unit of a dozen Abram's casually rolls forward
>Suddenly the commander orders the unit to stop
>A dozen enemy tanks appear over the horizon, coming straight for them
>"Don't worry guys, they won't stand a chance"
>The commander realizes that's not all, immediately behind the dozen tanks another dozen appear
>"Hey, now it'll be a fair fight!"
>Now the horizon fills up even more as a line of at least twenty tanks is basically right on the ankles of the first two dozen
>"R-relax boys, we got this"
>That commander is shocked to see it doesn't stop
>Immediately behind the twenty that just showed up fourty more roll over the hill, and then eighty more
>It doesn't stop
>The commander can't even keep a rough estimate of how many tanks are rolling on their position
>Everything from right out of the factory to tanks from the fucking winter war
>You can't even see the ground anymore, it's just a grey, close mass of tanks devouring the world in front of them
>The tanks are driving so close now that the horizon disappears entirely, now it's a permanent line of tanks
>Some of the tanks are actually riding on other tanks, in some case staking into moving tank pyramids at least six high
>Finally when it seems like the entire world has become nothing but tanks Russian bombers appear over the horizon
>The commander squints, nothing some strange, large chunk of metal on the bottom of all over them
>Any last shred of hope dies within him when he realizes the bombers are literally dropping more tanks

>>30796482
US military = Mexican mafia, lesbians, transgenders and homosexual.

Russia will bury you 7 feet deep.

>>30795207
I found the guy who reads those RT articles on military equipment.
It's easy to spot the vatnik train of thought because it's always about russian equipment working in a perfect situation. Here you're supposing Russia is omniscient on enemy positions, that their missiles can't be either countered or responded to (free to send as many missiles as they want), and that Russian jamming can't be countered in any way. and obviously the vatniks have no weaknesses whatsoever and aren't vulnerable to artillery or jamming.

>>30791599
Honestly the sexiest fucking gear ever.
I love SMERSH so much.

>>30791554
A lot of career guys really prefer the wraps and continue to use them.
Wraps are warmer, more durable and easier to clean.

>>30793107
The new Russian man portable anti armor systems are really some of the best in the world.
Kornets have confirmed kills on Saudi Abrams with DU armor.

>>30796573
>commander gets on his FBCB2, and calls in the mother of all fire support missions
>brigade commander realizes that the russians litterally have every armored vehicle in their inventory pushing on this one spot
>Abrams begins an rolling retreat, sucking the t series tanks deeper into their lines
>All 14 of the entire An-124 fleet begins dropping out of the sky
>the commander on his blue force tracker sees 400+ MALDs launched from OTH
>behind the malds, B1s, F-15s, and F-16s begin dropping BLU-108's en mass

That is how russia loses its entire strategic reserve in one battle.

>>30796698
>Saudi Abrams with DU armor.

Oxymoron. No DU has ever been exported.

>>30793300
I don't know what to say other than you're wrong.

>>30796718
The SEP Saudi Abrams have DU.

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>>30796678
If there's one area that Russian vastly surpass America in, it's aesthetics.
Gorka's are pure sex

ITT: Everything happens in a vacuum.

By and large the Russian Military should be considered to be technologically behind the United States, but there's a caviot to this.

When you are comparing the US to Russia, you are comparing the very definition of a global superpower to the definition of a regional power.

The US has massive volumes of power projection via its enormous navy and maintains the ability to be an effective fighting force anywhere in the world for the most part.

Russia maintains a gigantic land force with the worlds largest reserves (prior to the 2012 reforms, Russia's reserves were often reported as being up to 16 million men) and huge amounts of armored vehicles, while maintaining a modern Airforce and a capable green water navy.

The Russian Armys bulk should be considered 8-12 or so years behind the US in technological ability. Most Troops are outfitted similar to how troops at US surge in the middle East were. Optics and NVGs are becoming increasingly common. Squad level intercommunication is increasing common and their improving GLONASS system is helping. But it's still 8 years. Their most vanguard units and Special Forces lagg by few years so that it makes little difference, or are of similar par to comparable US forces: their special Forces remain a mix of unproven but well trained troops and battle hardened COIN units who have not faced a real competent foe, like many of the world's special forces today.

Their Tanks should be considered a mixed bag as well. The bulk of the Russian Armys armor are late model T-72s that, while capable, aren't as advanced as the M1A2. The T-80s and T-90s should be considered major threats, as the T-80 is considered somewhat a phenomenon of tank engineering on the part of the Russians. The T-14 shouldn't be counted as only the 4th Guards Independent Tank Brigade "Kantemir" has them, and only about a Battalion (39 tanks with a command T-80UK probably) worth at most: it might just be 26 tanks with 14 T-80Us.

>>30796748
Nope, no DU has ever been exported.

>It has been exported to the Armies of Egypt (M1A1), Saudi Arabia (M1A1 and M1A2), Kuwait (M1A2), Australia (M1A1) and recently Iraq (M1A1). Roughly 10,000 M1 Abrams main battle tanks were produced for the US Army, the USMC, Egypt, Iraq, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia.

>The frontal part of the turret is protected using depleted uranium plates which are more resistant than steel. Export Abrams are not provided with the depleted uranium armor.


http://www.deagel.com/Main-Battle-Tanks/M1A1-Abrams_a000516002.aspx

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>>30791916
They invaded georgia in 2008, I can tell you from experience that georgians absolutely fucking hate them. Also fun fact a usmc capt. Told me he was in Romania at the time and they had orders that if the reds took tablisi (the capital) then they where going in to take it back and secure the city......we where about what? 40 miles? From WW3?
>crazy shit to this kind about, gives me goose bumps.

>>30796756
Partially correct.
No tanks have ever been exported WITH DU, but Saudi Arabia, as a partner in the SEP for the M1A2 has been receiving upgraded DU armor panels.

>>30796776
The Russians were forcing the Georgians and out of South Ossetia and Abkahzia.
Both South Ossetia and Abkahzia were autonomous regions before the fall of the USSR and were not willingly brought under Georgian rule.

>>30796755

The Russian air defense grid is probably in better shape now than it was in the 80s and 90s. The only force that takes precedent over it is the Russian Strategic Rocket Forces, now part of the Russian Aerospace Forces. The S-300 and S-400 systems are highly capable and constitute enough of a threat to most NATO aircraft, the only real challenges being the B-2, F-22 and F-35, which is normal as this is exactly why Stealth became a thing for NATO.

The Russian Navy is laughable as a blue water navy, but sports heavily armed flotillas that make for a regional nightmare for opposing forces. The real reason Russia's blue water navy was never realized was Russia didn't need one, but politics of the cold war played out. Most Russian blue water ships aught to remain subs and supporting ships, while Russia focus is now on Corvettes and Frigates, heavily armed and reliable E tough to defend Russian waters and push into European or nearby bodies. The Russian Navy was never going to meet the USB in the Atlantic or Pacific and trade middle blows, it was going to scream NATO forces around Soviet and Russian Heald read and provide support to ground forces. It as going to strike REFORGER units with long range supersonic missiles and frontal aviation/Maritime Aviation bombers and Soviet Navy subs, not go out and fight the USB in the Second battle of Jutland. In the sort of active defense role it works well, but is downright pitiful for massive long range Naval operations.

The Russian Airforce has a lot of ideas but not a lot of funding. The Russian Airforce fields and appreciable fleet of attackers, light and heavy fighters that have all proven capable with pilots with quite a few hours of flight time. Their aircraft have been proven in simulation to be on par with many Western counterparts, but by and large are not in any major regard better or worse than them, save for the more advanced.

>>30796781
>as a partner in the SEP for the M1A2 has been receiving upgraded DU armor panels.


I am an IHS Janes subscruber, and as far as i know saudi Arabia is not a partner in the SEP program, nor have they recived DU panels.

Do you have a worthy source to back up your claims?

>>30796807
In regards to Russian naval operations.
Isn't presiding theory that in any war with a large military power they will use nuclear warheads against carrier groups on open ocean?
They know they can't hold it pound for pound, but they know that if you deny area to carrier groups, then you severely impact force projection for the US and make any conflict economically unsustainable.
Meanwhile, using nuclear warheads in a tactical fashion, especially medium yield, low dispersion weapons - there would be no grounds for nuclear strikes against inhabited zones.

>>30796807
Dassault Raffale and F-22 come to mind. The Su-27s most modern upgrades are fairly capable, and the MiG-29 is sometimes regarded as being better than the F-16, but is generally on the same level.

Soviet Bombers are big and cary a large payload. Those main goal is really to be cruse missile buses anymore and are mostly for long range strike and see strike, but delivery of nuclear weapons or conventional ordinance for land strike remains an accomplishable task.

The Russian nuclear force is still fairly fearsome but obviously really doesn't come into play in a modern scenario. Mutually assured destruction and all that.

Generally one shouldn't really look to compare the US and Russian Armed Forces though, at least not on equal term. Understand that most of the west will paint the Russians as the aggressors, when it seems that the Russian Armed forces are clearly outfitted and tasked to be of limited, regional offensive mobility (hence their VDV at over 50,000 strong and their 10,000 or so man Naval Infantry component: both forces for offensive or screening forces with high mobility), and are ment mostly to hold these territories, or make attacks into seized lands.

This really is logical when one understands Russian command organization and branches. The idea of a "front" command forces an army to virtually always organize and think as if it were at war. Which is where the notion the Russian army would be the agressor came from, but as we've seen it simply isn't he case: Russia has, in the last two major wars its been in (that weren't civil) been fighting on its own land, and then driving those forces out of its land. A front level command structure is great for this, as it considered not only the military, but the infrastructure and the local difficulties themselves moreso than a Divisional or Brigade type of command does. While the army reorganized, Russian command still heavily relies on the Front type of command.

>>30796825
The issue is hitting the CBG with a nuke.

Its not like you can use a freefall bomb, nor is ICBMs in the question, and russias nuclear capable AShMs are all last gem behomoths that are nothing more than SM-6 bait.

>>30796835

By relies on front type command, I mean, naturally, it still has the mentality.

The truth is that a war between Russia and the United States would be enormously costly. If the war were in a vacuum I have no doubt the US would win-but even in this situation the US would suffer great losses.

To consider a war with Russia and the United States, you must consider two congruent situations: Russia as the initial agressor, but still fighting from a position of defense, or the US as the Agressor, with Russia fighting from a point of defense, a thought seemingly unfathomable to most Western military (armchair) theorists.

Russia lacks the manpower to be a full agressor to the US. It can not invade the CONUS. Nothing can on this earth. Much to the same, very little could invade and hold much of Russia.

If Russia were the agressor, its troops would likely cut through Europe and take heavy casualties, Reenforcing the whole way and filling these reenforcments with reserve units or internal troops. The vanguard would push on.
If you want a modern sample, think Russia takes the Balkans, much of Middle Europe , probably a good amount of Germany, and maybe Italy. It stops dead and enforces itself while the US mobilizes troops. Remember, it takes a TON of time to mass troops-much longer if not by land. Russia might strike US shipping while the US does the same. Attacks on Siberia and Alaska would prove fruitless by and large. Air intercepts of the bomber variation would be high. Submarine warfare would be probable and reconnaissance would be frequent, but assume no nukes launched.

When all that is said and done and NATO/US pushes into Russia territories they would have a rough going. I bet it would be 4-6 years of bloody, brutal conventional war that would leave Europe ravished and both countries in social, financial and emotional ruin. A war that would claim upwards of 4-6 million lives easily and tens of trillions of dollars.

It just wouldn't happen.

>>30796844
P-270 Moskits man.
A few Mach 3 seaskimmers delivering nuclear warheads will fuck up your day.

>>30796792
Not arguing politics simply saying what I know and what I was told by this one guy, who knows if it was true.

>>30796792
But also Abkahzia is on a spot of coast that A)is a beautiful vacation spot for Russians
And B) also has a port in the black Sea that does not freeze in the winter. So the Russians needed it to harbor their ships..

Can't we just be friends with Russia? Russia and America vs India! Imagine the fun times, imagine the synergy!

>>30796877

In a US aggression situation-why? What does the US have to gain?

The US would need to destroy a ton of strategic European Russian locations and totally dismantle the Russian Navy localized defense, all the while contending with huge overlapping grids of AAA and fighters/interceptors.

Just for /k/s sake, this means you'll be able to see MiG-31s red lining engines to launch AAMRAMSKIs at B-1Bs. That's pretty cool.

They then would need to push into the daunting Russian landscape, where everything is vast, hilly and horrifyingly difficult. Russia is BIG. Russia's land is REALLY rough at times. Russian Tanks arent low because of Communist markets, Russia's tanks are low because Russia's landscape fits it well. The US would suffer a fate similar to that the Germans did in 1942/43 just the same. Russia could probably fault the US advance or make it so costly the war is abandoned. Russia wouldn't attempt, or rather, would not be able to attemot to push them all the way back and break out.

War between Russia and the US is fucking dumb. It would be MASSIVELY costly and would result in nothing but the total reset.

>>30796825
Modern Russian strike theory involves really fast things that the US can't really competently intercept. Things like the VA-111 Shkvall, super fast AShMs, ALCMs, stuff like that. In the 70s the idea of nuclear war was super popular on both fronts but it never would have worked well.

Russia would target major capital ships. The CVNs, the Cruisers, the Amphibious Assault Ships, the RoRos. It would be content to sit in its waters and fight from there while Naval Aviation and the Submarine Flotillas rack up kills and losses.

>>30796882
Unlikely.
If the US was going to counter Russia, they would have done it in Ukraine.

The problem with conflict between two huge powers is that it hasn't happened properly since Korea.
There's always been a serious advantage one way or the other since.

Two large powers going at it would destroy our world economy, and the only power to come ahead would be the one that didn't fight.
If Russia and the US fought, even for a year or two, China would emerge as the major world power.

That's not even considering the political impact - conflict weakens the American system, lives are incredibly important and the death toll in Iraq/Afghanistan is literally what won the Democrats the election in 2008.
In Russia, especially heavily Orthodox regions, war is literally part of their culture and religion - they have martyrs.
If they have 10,000 KIA, they have 10,000 heros.
If the US has 10,000 KIA, they have 10,000 reasons to call a truce.

Because of this, any conflict would quickly end in an armistice.

>>30796896
Regardless, the Abkhazians won their freedom in the early 90's, when the Russians couldn't supply much support.

I find a conventional non-proxy war between the US and Russia to be very unlikely, it doesn't seem like the US is willing to be the aggressor and I don't think Russian leadership is stupid enough to take on the US directly.

What I can imagine is Russia invading the baltics for example, which would mostly be resolved with spec ops and shit like that instead of T90s rolling into Tallinn on day one.

I'm not sure how much force the US could project on Russia, I'd imagine generals would be a spooked about using carrier groups against a nation like Russia in some low intensity shit, imagine having one sink.

>>30796878
SM-6 is a mach 3.5 interceptor that can hit the missle OTH. Sea Skimming is not anywhere near as effective as it was during the cold war.

>>30796907

Back to Russian commands:

Understand that Russia does not have three branches. Russia does not have an Army, a Navy, and an Airforce.

The Soviet Union had two functional armies, three functional navies, several Air Forces, two functional defense forces and a force no one is quite sure what to do with.

Modern Russia has one unified Army with a somewhat compartmentalized and weirdly specific command staff, a Navy with three sub-brances, an Aerospace Defense force, and an Airforce that makes sense if you think about it a bit.

The Russian Airforce divides its Aircraft into several roles. Long-range Aviation's job is exactly what it's called. They work with the Navy's Maritime Aviation for long range or medium range strike missions.

The Front line Aviation supports the Army in its role.

The other compartment controls things like fighter intercept and escort, territorial defense and more.

There's also Transport Aviation but no one is 100% sure what hey do-even them.

The Aerospace Defense forces control long range, theater and front level air defense. Long range and some medium range AD systems are all theirs, while they're protected by Army unit SHORAD and land troops.
They also protect the big red button that launches all the Topols.

The Navy has Naval Aviation, aforementioned.

The Submarines are commanded by a compartmentalized sector of the Navy. The Attacks and the Ballistic missile subs are compartmentalized as well.

The Navy has their own men, the Naval Infantry, who generally draw Officers from the Army and fall under Army purview in times of war, but still do Naval Infantry things. People talk a lot of shit about everyone's forces but one general consensus is that the Russian Naval Infantry are fucking scary. They haven't been seen in MANY years until Syria, when that one officer with the VFM (A Naval born Reconnaissance force) blew himself to Valhalla when his position got over run and he ran out of ammo.

>>30796949
>SM-6
They are not in service yet, they are expensive, Russian AS missiles are actually armoured and capable to do EW. And Russians are working on on hypersonic missile right now. This race will never end.

>>30796949
You wouldn't experience a single missile, it would be a coordinated strike by multiple cruisers and, if it's slightly in the future, possibly Ekranoplans.
You'd have literally dozens of sea skimmers that don't even have to hit you to obliterate you.

Blue water area denial is scary as fuck.

>>30796951
Nice posts mate, did you study this?

>>30796963
SM-6 is in service and has been since '13. Over 200 of the things has been built. Frankly, the armor is a complete meme, and being it uses an enlarged aim-120 active seeker head, it most likely has home on jam like the 120 making EW dubious at best.

>>30796951

The Naval Infantry have their own AIRFORCE actually technically, the Frontovaya Aviatsiya Morskogo Flot, which is literally only the Helicopters (or small Transports) that cary Para-marines and provide fire support.

The Army has mechanized and motorized troops, the same as every army, but they're kind of different because the Mechanized (tank) units are generally expected to do their job with what they have (a 2:1 mix of Tanks:Infantry units), while the Infantry (motorized) units do their thing with what they have.

Russia also has a fucking ton of heavy guns for artillery, and their SPGs are generally considered excellent.

The VDV, or Russia's literal Sky-Army, is a pretty capable light Infantry force that acts as that aforementioned form of limited regional force projection. They lack organic tanks, but ARE a Mechanized airborne unit with airborne APCs in the form of the BMD series. While not amazing, it doesn't take a tactical genius to figure out the advantage an air deployable organicly mechanized force has.

Russia's Police are also heavily militarized and its not unreasonable to expect members of the MVD and its Internal Troops to be used in instance of war as second line units or even shock units, seeing as many of the MVDs units are more combat experienced than the Russian Army, especially units like ODON, OMON or Red Banner Special Purpose units.

>>30796985
I think FSB Spetznaz units were used in Chechnya as storm troops for secured positions.

But nowadays Russia has actually brought back the shock trooper/assault regiments from the early cold war, with huge amounts of body armour.
It'd be interesting to see how they perform.

>>30796968
Sort of.
I studied at the Kirov Institution for Military Medicine as an exchange student and a lot of this stuff rubbed off on me since its also home to command staff officers school, and I made friends who were optimistically hoping to make this their career. I currently do spare time translation work for defense blogs and stuff so I keep up with the blow by blow.

I didn't major in like military theory or anything, I just specialized in Trauma medicine and wanted to learn different approaches. This just rubbed off on me.

>>30796985

The Russian general staff is abundantly aware it can't win a war with the US 1 on 1 in a straight power struggle outside of its own territories. The problem is the senior most staff and oligarchs don't care. To them it's still 1978. World War 3 is a cough away. If you want to see a REAL exchange of amazingly intelligent ideals, sit a Russian Airborne Colonel down with an American Airborne Colonel. The two will likely agree on many things and I wholly beleive that both nations could benifit from an exchange of doctrinal tactics.

In addition, every large Russia unit has an attached unit if SpetSnaz. Now the Wests idea of the Spetsnaz are battle hardened special forces, running headlong into combat with a PK machine Gun, throwing grenades into NATO trenches while launching ATGWs at NATO tanks, killing for the Motherland, but the term Spetsnaz in Russian literally means Special Purpose. They aren't ALL green beret navy SEALs, but they are generally more experienced, better trained and better motivated troops. They aren't necessarily true Western special Forces, but they probably have some unique skill set or are of better crop than the random Pytors and Ivan's in the Motor rifle unit.

>>30796966
The CBG is not protected by a single missle either, and Ekranoplans would be seen from standoff range by E-2D's.

Yes, the CBG will be under coordinated attack, but it has planned for this for a long time and is under a cordinated defense with an ungodly number of interceptors.

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>>30797013
Not part of the shock trooper uniform, but I remembered this thing.
It's called a Zabor and basically makes the point man a walking ballistic barrier.

>>30797029
Neat, I wish I could have studied abroad.

>>30796951
This entire post is pretty weird, I'm not really sure what you are saying.
You seem to be counting branches twice and not counting others.
>There's also Transport Aviation but no one is 100% sure what hey do-even them.
Uh transport obviously. You know those An-124s and Il-76s flying into Syria.
>They haven't been seen in MANY years until Syria
Crimea? Various exercises? Or Georgia where they lost their LSTs to the VDV who landed in Abkhazia instead.

>>30797013

Not to be a true REEEE type but they did, however:

The MVD doesn't get enough credit. The MVD special forces are of extremely excellent cut and have actually proven to be more capable than the FSB in many roles. Evidently being motivated to protect your real home (MVD units are regional, FSB are federal) rather than just your people is enough. But the MVDs special forces have, in several competitions, outshoot,o outmaneuvered, and outdone the equal FSB units. In Chechnya they rolled out boys, 19-22 years old, to protect the rear area and were slaughtered. The MVD was offered as an alternative to Military service at the time and these were guys who didn't want to see war and wanted to help their community, probably had only ever shot and AK 4 times, and probably never more than 60 rounds at a time, and they sent them to war. The FSB fixed the boondoggle and stole the glory and since then the MVD has been a bit if a laughing stock, and its crappy because many of their units are excellent and they do make for a really good internal security force.

>>30797029

I really don't have much more to add.
If there's anything people want to know about Soviet/Russian military theory or command or tactics ask I guess?

>>30797053

The transport thing was more a passing joke in reference to a kind of obscure publication concerning the VDV from the 80s.
Plus, obvious name.

I meant enmass for the Naval Infantry.

I didnt list all the units out because it would be quite exhaustive and I really don't have the real base of knowledge to talk about what they all do to a tee.

>>30797065
Neat.
I trained with a few Kazakhstani guys a while ago (privately) and a lot of what they did was quite strange to us, not "wrong" but definitely a different way if working.
I've always wondered if all ex Warsaw pact states continued their training in the manner of cold war USSR forces or adapted in a similar manner to Russia?

>>30793545
You're a faggot, lol.

>>30795207
You're a faggot.

>>30796949
>SM-6 is a mach 3.5 interceptor that can hit the missle OTH. Sea Skimming is not anywhere near as effective as it was during the cold war.
One counter I can think of is have the alpha of the missile pack - who acts as spotter and picket for the rest of the missiles, armed with a nuke warhead to blow itself up in full view of the Aegis destroyers while being more than far enough not to affect the rest of the pack with the blast; ionizing the air and fucking up sensors all over. The rest of the missiles proceed through the mushroom cloud and follow the alpha's last coordinates of the targets, all the while only just initializing their radars. Time it correctly and the missiles won't be targeted by destroyer's own sensors , while the missiles can see just fine(they are staring away from the residual ionized air).

>>30791502
Only because people are now to dumb to use wraps

Far superior

>>30797082

I couldnt say for sure. If they opted to stay in the CIS I imagine it's more of the same. However, many former Soviet States might have similar things. Remember, Russia saw itself as the patron saint, the mother and father, the protector of all Slavs. Slavic cultures are heavily intertwined and share many similar customs and traditions, and these include marshal. The Soviet Union in its early years, it is sometimes argued, saw itself much the same way Imperial Russia did in the 1880s-1910s: a unifier and defender of all Slavs, with different political novices. It's a mentality you might see echoed today in a lot of Russia actually.


>>30796985

I should like to make an amendment: the VDV CAN make a competent light Infantry unit. I do not know how much of them is actually mechanized, but based on the numbers of BMDs in service, I should think it's not an unreasonable sized force: probably about 1/5th of the assumed numbers, which might well be most of their actual combat force.

we are doing great modernization recently but the problem is the salary is fucking shit for contract.l

>>30797138
If the nuke is at relevent ranges it will fug the previous members of the pack, and be well OTH. The SM-6 has god tier range, coupled with the E-2D. Thats the real problem is killing the fucking awacs.

>>30797138
That sounds like something out of a scifi movie.
The truth is that you don't even have to make a hit with nuclear armed Moskits.
I'd say one or two proximity detonations would be more than enough to completely disable a carrier group.
Russia knows that the only thing that would make US force projection possible would be its carrier groups, they will do anything in their power to disable or delay them.
Without carrier groups, or with extensive damage to operational ones, the US could not economically sustain the war.

>>30797153
Enlisted salary will always be shite, officers will always be paid more than they're worth.

>>30797154

Russia does have actual "AWACS Killers" besides the R-77. They actually have Air-To-Air Anti-radar missiles like the KS-172, and its something they've been interested for some time.

I'm intruding though, I'll just butt out.

>>30797168
yeah, but I mean it's still not that great. it's mostly attracting people in small villages and such. we allow literally anyone in our armed forces aslong as they can speak russian these days, that's how desperate it has become

>>30797150
It is kind of fucked up with what happened in 68 when the "occupation" of Czechoslovakia happened. The soldiers were heartbroken when they found out they were not freeing them from some threat, rather, occupying. I've heard stories of soldiers being in tears when the local populace threw rotten vegetables, cobblestones and insults at them. A friend of my close pal once told us a story that his father was among those soldier. Two or three commited a suicide after being "welcomed" as oppresors. Some say that as many as 300 soldiers couldn't bear the burden of being opressors to their brother country.

One slightly more positive story was that the guys were lost and came upon an an abandoned train stop with graffity still there from the '68 - "GO HOME RUSSIANS!" he sobbed and proclaimed "I want to - I don't know how!"

Come to think of it, do Russians still believe in some slavic brothership?

>>30797203
Two or three from his company I meant.

Would Russian military surpass the American one if they had a similar budget?

>>30797192

By all means, intrude!

But you are forgetting an important, and obvious problem.

The missle has to fly over the densest AA zone in the world to hit the awacs, and the awacs will see it coming.

>>30797203

I again couldn't say if it's a massive thing. I'm half-russian by birth but outside of the time I have spent in Russia and speaking Russian I have not been immerses in their culture enough to definitively answer that question. I'm not really a slavboo by choice, I just kind of ended up gathering a bunch of information on this stiff from living there for awhile. Beleive me, its not totally intentional.

I think it's probably something that will be on the Russian conscious for decades to come, and I'm sure that many European Russians probably feel a close cultural connection with their other Slavic brothers. If you were to take a vote I'm betting probably 20-30% of Russian Slavs see Russia as the unifier or protector of all Slavs, especially those of Orthodox faith. A Pan-Slavic state was the goal for many years and it never did come about but out of all the silly country concepts its one that probably has more realistic likelihood of working than many others.

I don't think that Putin's "protecting Russian Minorities" motif is identity politics, or and effort to create Panslavia per second but it might be a motivator.

>>30797221

I just sort of assumed it to be a simple one to one bar engagment.

I didnt read the conversation (not because it's disinteresting-I was just being a sperg about why war with Russia and the US is an improbability) but basically Russia's policy with AWACS comes down to using their own AWACs to help counter them, then spam missile at them (a common theme). AFAIK two AWACs have ever flown against each other so I have literally no idea what the outcome would be.

>>30797209
Not really, but just like now they'd both have strengths over each other.
We'd probably see an equivalent air force, with even more AA equipment.
But mostly, we'd see a return to mass production of armour.

>>30794211
Doesn't matter, All the training and all the equipment means nothing when VATNIKS smash a empty vodka bottle over your head and stabs you with a rush rail road spike.

>>30797209
Most of Russian nice things exists because their tight budget stimulate innovations.

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>>30791117

>>30794784
Yes you so fucking can!
It's call napalm and carpet bombing.

>>30797329
But Russians dont have quantity anymore. Their population and economy declines.

>>30797342
They do have Chechens now. Well, most of them. They have proven their loyalty in Georgia and Ukraine. Some even snitched on their own ISIS cousins and spread rumors that Chechens in ISIS are russian spies calling in airstrikes.
Most of Dagestan would fight for Russia till the end if Putin would allow the sharia law in their own provinces.

>>30796756
Why would you get Abrams instead of Leopard at that point?

>>30793233
Everything else he said is correct though or was just admittedly a statement of opinion. Russia has a lot of good tech they can't afford to produce in significant enough numbers for it to matter militarily. And yeah they do make titanium helmets for pointmen on entry teams. They weigh like 15 pounds or more but can tank multiple rifle rounds. Probably your neck will break before the helmet is penetrated.

>>30796714
>I am incapable of appreciating jokes

>>30797330
Nukes as well

>>30791117
Their artillery is better than ours.

>>30797228
Fair enough. Thank you for your answer. That all being said, I feel like most of the "western slavic" countries hate Russia for obvious reasons, on the other hand, I don't think they, or at least I don't, hate russians. To get back at the friend of mine who has a ruski friend, they came to a kind of sad conclusion - "Russians can be great friends of us. Russia, on the other hand - cannot be anything other than an enemy." pointing out at the cultural and linguistic similarities of slavic peoples, but different, say, leadership and political approach.

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The T-14 makes my peepee hard and sticky fluid come out.

>>30797472
Do they use GPS-assisted INS regularly, or are dumb shells still the most common?

Do they use sensor-fused submunitions routinely, or only as weapons tests or PR?

>>30797516
From what I understand they can use both just as efficiently, but the Russian doctrine with "smart" munitions and systems is that any electronic augmentations can be deactivated and countered, so they train to seamlessly utilise both modern enhanced and hardlined systems.

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>>30797033
>it has planned for this for a long time and is under a cordinated defense with an ungodly number of interceptors.

The only true in your opinion is that there was only one plan to defense CBG: Don't fucking engage in battle with the Enemy exept goatfuckers muslims. Sad but true.

>>30797033
>Flying in at 20m above the waves, at 500km/h, launching multiple moskits and then de-assing the area.
Good luck, Ekranoplans are not to be taken lightly.

>>30791578
>G-d
Are you some kind of homeschooled autist, faggot?

>>30797567
I'm so dang sick of people laying things like that on homeschoolers.
Someone has parents who care about them more than you, so stop bullying them.

>>30791485
What you talking about? Vodka is must in battlefield. Make warrior stronk. Important tool my little meeshka

>>30792987
Yep. The AEK 971 and AN 94 are examples of fucking superior firepower but they're still prototypes and few to no personnel carry them.

>>30793189
We won WW2

>>30797617
Both are widely available to various Spetsnaz units, particularly FSB units.
Whilst it's true the don't currently produce them, they are still in service in significant numbers.

>>30793412
Youtube comment sections omg. There you will find.

>>30793412
Eh, you'll generally find a lot more Ameriboos here on /k/.
Most of the guys who like Russian shit here don't needlessly pile shit on other stuff.

>>30797511
It might be filled with all kinds of nifty boondoggles and new tech but fuck me if it isn't ugly as fuck.
I know that there is literary no benefit to looking pretty but damn I hate it on the looks department.

>>30797646
I personally really like the turret, it feels really "Neotokyo"-esque.
That said, I'm just exited for the new age of tonks, it being the first tank to incorporate all these new technologies, which will probably spur along the US.
I think we'll see production of a new US tank within 10 years and probably an M1A4 upgrade to add AESA and an autonomous turret within 15.

>>30791117
No. Technologically, the Russians could last on the battlefield against the US, but during the Yugoslav Wars, an M1 Commander destroyed 20 russian T90's in the span of an hour. We can only look at what we HAVE seen, as military sims assume everyone does their job perfectly. Logistically, the Russian army is FAR weaker. The Russian Army is suffering from heavy abuse amongst the ranks, with high-ranking officers and NCO's prostituting out lower-ranks. Go to Moscow, and any time of year there are military prostitutes. A soldier who experiences things such as that has extremely low morale, and on deployment anything could happen. From my experience, Russia has a very 'fuck it just send more' way of conducting itself, whilst the US would prefer a much smaller, but elite fighting force. Not saying it's true, but that's the idea.

Russian Tank Fleet: 3000+
US Tank Fleet: 1200?
Russian MBT(Now): T90
US MBT(Now): M1A1

Russian Tank Fleet(2020):5800+
US Tank Fleet(2020):3000+
Russian MBT(2020):T-14 Armata
US MBT(2020):M1A2 TUSK

>>30793412
>literally can't read the thread

lel

Literally every fucking time.

>>30797629
>significant numbers
Like 1, or 2 servicemen use them? The AEK series are PROTOTYPES, an average conscript is more likely than a special forces member to use an unfinished product. And the AN 94? "A weapon's complexity is inversely proportional to its usefulness". And that thing is complex. Definitely a professional's choice though, but a fucking gun savant professional.

>>30797679
>All these fucking memes.

>>30796781
Then prove it already instead of just spouting it and saying it's true.

>>30797683
Several thousand were made and issued.
They went way past prototype into field trial stage.
There are plenty of groups who still use them, but the 107 is taking over from it, being the new magic system.

>>30797679
lemme fix them numbers, just looked it up. US has 5,000 Tanks as of now, Russia has 15,000+

>>30797689
>current year
>not realising the size of an MBT fleet is ver import
>come under sniper fire: Armor required to advance
>come under suppressive fire: Armor required to advance
>come under fire: Armor required to advance
>come under indirect fire: Armor helpful to advance
>come under direct fire: Armor helpful to advance

it's the current year, tanks lead troops on the battlefield, no longer the other way

>>30797702
You sound like you don't know what you're talking about. 107 is an old system, and it's definitely not magic compared to the 94 and 971/2/3. I don't believe you.

>>30797744
107 is not a new system, but it is still in procurement stages.

>>30791578
>g-d

ahahaha shove it up your ass, shlomo

>>30797567
no he's a typical neurotic jew

Okay, since the fact that amerifats can't explain >>30797539 and the thread just turned to the tanks. How America is going to transfer its shittons of tanks to the war territory?

>>30797763
Land in a friendly nation and move in.
Probably Germany if on the defensive, or Turkey if on the offensive.

Russia basically has undisputed control of any water it has a European border with.

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>>30791117
>on par
>surpass

>>30797783
So you really think there will be any airbase for your planes? Oh You...

>>30791117
I have no real information to back this up.

Russia:
>Possibly has come across an invention/innovation that would be really useful in battle.
>Possibly has tech that they simply aren't wasting money implementing.
>Possibly there is only a certain level of tech that actually has real effect during the chaos and craziness of all-out war between two giant powers like the USSR and the USA
>Prepares for eventualities (including surreal ones I'm sure)

America:
>Literally makes every other defense budget in the world look like a joke
>Goes out of it's way to develop and invent on a continuous and regular basis
>Has an amazing determination to realistically preparing for every possibility, no matter how crazy
>Absolutely has a bounty of tech ready for mass development, but may actually become outdated before it is needed so they do not mass produce (plus then their tech can't be stolen)

Maybe I'm just an America fag, but I really believe they have an edge, at least tech wise

>>30791117
Their rape tech is par none

Their cold weather gear is fantastic value for money, as expected. Other than that, doctrine is too different to compare. I've not heard great things but Russia is quite secretive with regards to their military, so who knows.

We won't be fighting them, at any rate. Clinton wouldn't be stupid enough (I hope) and Trump openly encourages dialogue with them.

>>30791454
I think you're the uneducated one here
Russie spends 1/9 of what the US does on their military, they're not even 2nd. nor 3rd. they're 4th
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures

>>30793233
who´s this semen summoner?

>>30793107
>Another thing I hear if that Russia has better armor penetrating rounds for the AK, which would be able to penetrate the US commonly issue bullet resistant vests/plates.
Yeah that's why we've all been to war in the middle east for more than 20 years against people using the exact same weapons and cartridges as the Russians and we all wore plates that weren't designed to stop the most common bullet in the world fired by an AK you would encounter 90% of the time

>>30797927
>Clinton wouldn't be stupid enough.
She's actively antagonistic towards them.
She's the most war mongering candidate in 50 fucking years.

>>30797646
needs more crown molding?

>>30797936
What does this have to do with military capabilities. 3rd military budget in the world is being curbstomped in Yemen by literal cavemen sandpeople. 2nd military budget in the world cannot project power outside of its borders. 1st military budget is getting wasted on fraud schemes and disastrous boondoggles like Zumwalt and F-35

>>30798139
money and currency in general, are used to purchase scarce resources. Having more of these "monies" or "wongggaaaaaa" allows one to have more of, or better quality products that one exchanges the money for.

Having 9x the money to spend on your army, all else equal, will make you have 9x the size of the army of one that only spends 1x.

It ain't that hard.

Russia doesn't waste it like the US with f-35 shilling, but they're in no way comparable (military capacity) as one spends 9x the other.

>>30798177
Do explain how US army is being downsized and increasingly degraded despite spending 9x more than Russia

http://index.heritage.org/military/2016/assessments/us-military-power/us-army/

>>30797457
>I am incap-
REKY

>>30791117
aliens > Russia > ... (power gap) ... > almost everyone else > Vietnam > USA = China

>>30797112
nice counter argument

>>30797539
Absolutely retarded. If you want to get in a meme fight about respective navys, we can do that.

>>30797553
Yes, they are very large and fast...the E-2D will still see it coming over 200 miles away, and its not as if the E-2 is hovering directly over the carrier

>>30798375
>Absolutely retarded
U.S. CBG just couldn'n do shit against some weapon of Russia. You can continue to believe in commercials, it is only can.

>>30798472
US killed off the USSR mega russia just fine.

The husk of its former self should be no problem.

>>30798199
more corruption, less results.

Still doesn't make Russia more powerful, ruskie bro

DO YOU NOT LOVE YOUR CHILDREN?

>>30798525
Yes exactly. Just a little blowjob Putin's cock and nothing! Murrica great again!

>>30798606
Shitposting wont bring the USSR back anon.

>>30797679
what the fuck, any sources on the yugo wars thing? sounds interesting but AFAIK there was literally no interaction between the US and the RF during the wars except for kosovo, where they both worked alongside each other as peacekeepers.

>>30798139
>boondoggle
>F-35
pick one

>>30797763
>Be me
>Enter thread
>Russiafags pointing out whole in LPD
>Ignoring the fact that any ship hit by an ASM is pretty fucked
>armor = slow
>slow = dead

>>30793417

>Russia's sheer numbers

Numbers of what? Their smaller air force, smaller navy, or smaller ground forces?

>Russian Ground Forces and VDV combined at less than 350,000 soldiers
>US Army active personnel at 470,000 with over a half million National Guard and Reserves

The "le Russian numbers" meme needs to fucking die.

The entire Russian Armed Forces are at about 850,000 personnel, and many of those are 1-2 year conscripts. They're busting conscriptions down to 1 year because they literally cannot stop second year conscripts from raping first year conscripts to death.

The entire Russian Armed Forces exists as nothing more than an overblown boogeyman that the Pentagon hypes up specifically to keep NATO (and by extension American hegemony) expanding and alive, while also getting Congress to shovel absolutely obscene amounts of money into the Military Industrial University Complex.

If every man, woman, and child in America knew just how shitty Russia's military was today, we'd slice at least a third of our military budget tomorrow.

That being said, I love having such an overwhelmingly massive military, so this would upset me greatly.

>>30791117
Their forces are smaller across all categories. Its no longer the USSR, they dont have much manpower compared to the US.

Their airforce is a joke that has a small handful of good planes, a bunch of horrendously outdated ones, and no budget to maintain or train with any of them.

While their ground forces do have some good units, the majority are half trained conscripts with low/no morale due to an outright abusive CoC. They have no modern supply system.

They do not have heavy airlift capability.

>>30799796
Your information is outdated.
))

>>30799925

Oh, woops, looks like Russia tacked on an extra hundred thousand across all branches!

Woo! They broke 1,000,000 active personnel!

They still are at a half million deficit when compared to the US.

The US still technically has less reserves, but our reserves are of a much higher quality, as Russia classifies "Reserves" as what are essentially inactive conscripts. It is doubtful that they even have the ability to equip and deploy any sizeable number of these reserves in a timely manner, or that they would make any kind of difference on the battlefield.

>>30799971
Two thirds of Americans are overweight or obese. 40 percent of Americans are black or Hispanic. Most Americans lack military experience.

>>30799992

>General Nikolai Makarov said that Russia had reached a crisis in the conscript service where there simply were not sufficient able bodied men to draft and was forced to halve its conscription

Believe it or not, if we needed to, we could draft fatties and burn off that weight. A lot of fatbodies join the military and come out lean.

Russia, on the other hand, maintains a military made up of half one year conscripts (that are increasingly hard to replenish) from a population in a net decline, and cannot reasonably provide modern fighting equipment for even a fraction of its reserve force.

They are a fucking joke.

>>30799992

>40 percent of Americans are black or Hispanic

So?

>most Americans lack military experience

And conscripts that spent a year being starved and beaten by older conscript's are somehow better?

>>30797329
Stalin never said that.

>>30797646
I think it's sexy af

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>little to no mention or consideration of economic capacity of both nations

The simple fact of the matter is that the U.S. economy, for all of its flaws, is much stronger during peacetime, and would be much stronger in a war production setting.

Russia's economy right now is a shitty oil mono-culture that is stymied further by incredibly widespread brain-drain, an infrastructure that is somehow worse than the U.S.A's, and corruption that is so deeply rooted within the system that even the attempts to root out corruption has issues with corruption. It's ineffective, it's brittle, and it probably won't be able to effectively aid a offensive or defensive war for any considerable length of time.

The Russians definitely have an advantage in Missile technology, and are much more partial to fielding mothballed equipment, but the economic aspect of war is simply more important in a conventional setting.

>>30800148

>we will end corruption!
>to do that I will create a multi-department agency headed by none other than my bestest friend and closest business partner!
>this man KNOWS corruption, so he is best suited to weed it out. Trust me!

>>30798525
>US killed off the USSR mega russia just fine.
We didn't kill shit. We literally waited for it to died, and we didn't even think it would for decades longer. If it were not for the '91 coup, the USSR probably still be around.

>>30800210

>Democratic forces stage a coup to overthrow an economically stagnant and oppressive regime
>countries behind the Iron Curtain adopt democracy and join the winning team
>all of this is somehow not an American victory

We won the culture and economic wars.

>inb4 b-b-but commies, socialists, and degeneracy

Not a fucking argument. America exists, the USSR doesn't, and Russia has a comparable GDP to California.

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>>30793545

>writes long post
>"There are more areas where Russia is unmatched, but I don't care enough about this shit to explain."

Translation: "I can't think of anything besides missiles that Russia is good at."

Look anon, you're absolutely right that Russian missile technology beats that of the United States. But don't ruin a relatively informed post by tacking bullshit on the end of it. It just makes you look like a butthurt Vatnik.

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>>30799850
Let's be completely honest here: Russia doesn't exist and never did, your entire memory of it is a Langley psy-op mixed with prozac overdose induced delirium.

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>>30800255
>>Democratic forces stage a coup to overthrow an economically stagnant and oppressive regime

Are you actually retarded? I'm absolutely serious, are you? It was KGB hardliners, and the coup fucking failed.

Let me repeat that. It was not 'democratic forces', it was KGB hardliners. They were fighting against reforms, not for them, and they failed.

I'm not sure if this is what they're teaching in schools now days or what, but Jesus fuck you're retarded.

>>30793545
The Russians need countermeasures to ABM systems and the US does not.
So what targets can the Russians hot with Bulava that the US cant hit with Trident?

>>30792592
A nation doesn't give words. Politicians do. Politicians change.

Treaties bond nations in arrangements, not politicians' promises. Those can too be broken, but not without actual consequences of the other country having legal ground to fuck you over back in revenge.

Are you some sweet summer child?

>>30791641
>literally any European nation would accomplish as much as the vatniks did

Any European nation attempting the same would run out of munitions.

>>30791117
Russian/Eastern technology was shaped by a different doctrine so not really comparable.
You could also say everyone except the US is shit tier due to the amount of funding and sheer size of the US military, so comparing anybody to the US is kind of moot. (I see this a lot of /k/, people fail to realize that just because two countries are political rivals doesn't mean they are militarily comparable.)
The Russians also suffered major financial cutbacks and a brain drain which set them back 20-30 years.

Russian spear tip has improved a lot.
Most of their units are still trash.

>>30793545
>he thinks the Patriot is the primary US SAM

Nigga, what are THAAD and the SM series.

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>>30801221
>Politicians change
Except Clinton was still president in 1999 (the first expansion into post-soviet states).

>Treaties bond nations in arrangements, not politicians' promises. Those can too be broken, but not without actual consequences of the other country having legal ground to fuck you over back in revenge.
You replied to my reply to that same argument, I suggest you actually read it.


>Are you some sweet summer child?
>muh summer

>>30793545
Pfft, speaking of dickwaving.

>>30791572
In recent times you can see as well Russia changing their doctrines and adopting more shall we say "common sense" Nato doctrines
Trying intensely to bring their war machine to current standards with the T-14 and all the counterparts that will be based off of its chassis
Though their air is still shit due to fly by tactics for CAS ground forces are improving

>>30796459
SABOTAGE!

>>30797197
Teach me Russian

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>>30791117
Their military technology is overall half as good as US technology, but the issue is that they can't actually afford to use any of it due to their economy that's being held together with elmer's glue and duct tape.

You also have to factor in that they haven't got too much room for quality due to the different conditions that they're under, a couple of them being that they have a metric fuckton of land to cover and that their only potential invaders or defenders are their former satellites with shitty export versions of the T-72 among other various outdated equipment from the 50s and 60s.

My big issue with these threads is that there's always a bunch of day/k/are faggots present and constantly trying to push that Russia is Africa-tier in terms of everything that they have which inevitably triggers vatniks to come out of the woodwork and start the regular US vs Russia shitflinging.

>>30797581
Being homeschooled is pretty shit and most homeschooling parents are at best naive and end up neglecting their kids needs or at worst dumbass christfags who shelter their kids and turn them into equally retarded christfags. T. guy who was homeschooled by parents of the naive and neglectful variety.

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>>30793572
hurr durr taking cover is bad and you should just fire blindly like a real man!!!!!!!!!!! t. dumbass grunt/pic related wannabe vatnik shitposter

>>30797457
>jokes
these le epic russia greentext shitposts haven't been funny for ages.

>>30796714
>brigade commander realizes that the russians litterally have every armored vehicle in their inventory pushing on this one spot
my sides

>>30795766
/thread

>>30801295

They would not if they used dumb bombs as the ~80% of all ordnance dropped, like the Russians did.

>>30793545

is this new copypasta

>>30804673

IIRC france literally dropped a dummy bomb with a JDAM guidance kit onto a libyan tank

>>30796714
>As the Aircraft move out, it becomes suddenly apperent that the Russians have also brought every mobile AA system they could remember
>Everything from S-400's to nigger-rigged DsHK's start lighting up the sky
>Entire Russian Air Forces as also converged into the area
>Sure enough it seemed, the Entire Russian Military was closing in on a single point on the map
>Even the Admiral Kuznetsov was reported to have beached it'self on Ukraine's Black Sea Coast, desperately trying to crawl it's way to the location
>The Secretary of Defense looks coldly at his screen from the Situation Room, witnessing history unfold before him
>"This is it. The End. The mother of all battles" he thinks to himself
>And I'll be damned if I'm outdone!

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Right now most of the stuff Russia's operating is either soviet era or a stop-gap upgrade of a soviet era system (T-72B3, BTR-82A, Su-72SM3 etc.). They do have some modern, capable systems in service, but only in relatively small numbers. Overall, I'd say the state of their military tech-wise is pretty mediocre currently. That being said, they have developed some very promising systems like the PAK-FA and Armata, Kuragenets, and Bumerang families of vehicles. The question isn't really whether Russia has the technological capability to produce high quality systems, because they're already in the process of doing it. The question is more if they have the actual resources to get those systems into service to the extent they want to.

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>>30791117
Their technology is a bit worse, yet unlike the Americans they actually can win wars.

>>30805710
>you know what would be funny
>if we lost more men in two years of indecisive fighting in Ukraine than the Americans have in 15 years of occupying Afghanistan

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>>30805746
U.S. State Dept. claims that the Russians have lost around 400 soldiers, which is probably a bit overstated given that it's from the Americans. They're also fighting an actual army, not illiterate peasants with AKs and Lee Enfields.

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>>30805809
gets me everytime

>>30791117

Historically, the Russian Army is always shit until several months after a war starts. So no, your army is not on par with the US, but that does not mean shit, because there is no way the US could end a war with Russia within several months or a year.

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>>30796753
>>30796678
>>30791599
Gorka + smersh harness + 7.62 hole puncher + balaclava + vodka = comfy

>>30792045
Going to war and mobilizing massive amounts of troops tends to unshitty economies though

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>>30805672

>>30793035
T90s are a T72. The Russians literally said this themselves, but wanted to create a "new" tank for the Russian Federation.

>>30792238
>I mean, they kinda did.

That is total BS. One has to wonder - do Putler and this merry band of ex-KGB thugs ever consider the possibility that neighboring countries might not feel such a need to join NATO if Russia would stop acting like a violent bully...

>>30807797
who cares what those maggots need. in the event of war, they will be cratered first, precisely for being part of nato

>>30791117
Anything that the Soviets had C.1985 technologically had not progressed much further than the U.S. but their innovation of making old things """new""" is pretty much a reminder that their manufacturing and construction completely plummeted.

>>30791117
Lindybeige?

>>30800054
>spent a year being starved and beaten by older conscript
>older conscript
You seriously need to update your knowledge about Russian Armed Forces.
Russian Army simply does not have the older conscripts in mix now, and single bruise on rookie's skin will get his officers to send written explanations to the military prosecutor's office and pay fines.

>>30807895
>Anything that the Soviets had C.1985 technologically had not progressed much further than the U.S. but their innovation of making old things """new""" is pretty much a reminder that their manufacturing and construction completely plummeted.
Whut? If anything thanks to access to Western technologiesand best practices (first directly, then purloined through other channels like the Orientals) they have managed to stay afloat in 2nd place for the most part. They are the only nation apart from the US that can produce a more or less complete set as it were in chess- tanks, ifvs, jets, ships, sams, whatnot- anyone else has to buy, beg, borrow, or steal.

>>30800170
sounds a lot like Trump
>>30800148
>Russia's economy right now is a shitty oil mono-culture
They're not. Or else it would be mad max land since 2014 when oil prices tanked. Please write to your congressman to keep the sanctions btw.

>incredibly widespread brain-drain
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/09/13/24-7-wall-st-most-educated-countries/15460733/
They have reserves.

>an infrastructure that is somehow worse than the U.S.A's
As China's direct link to Europe, Russia is set to enjoy massive investments in transportation infrastructure in particular.
http://www.erina.or.jp/en/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/se12710_tssc.pdf

>corruption that is so deeply rooted within the system that even the attempts to root out corruption has issues with corruption
They just haven't tried rebranding corruption as lobbyism yet.

>The Russians definitely have an advantage in Missile technology
In some subfields yes. Solid fueled SLBMs for instance, they sucked hard until the Bulava.

>>30797679
T90 is not intended to replace T72

> your facts are shit mate

>>30791588
There is still a strong opposition to socks in army here. They just consider foot wraps as comfier and better thing.

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Russia is decades behind the US in weapons technology...while china is behind by eons. Not even if the two combined, would they come anywhere near close.

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>>30791346

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>>30791454
You need to get your head out of Putins ass and put down the vodka bottle. Try reading a book and drinking some water instead...educate yourself, you Russian simpleton.

>>30800380
>Are you actually retarded? I'm absolutely serious, are you? It was KGB hardliners, and the coup fucking failed.
They won the elections a few years later though and they're still there.

Russian democracy makes a nice cover for an old-fashioned police state though. Everyone bought it for the longest time and even now they don't quite call it what it is.

Russian elites would fleed to the west if war starts tbqh.

Go to any Youtube video relating to Russia and check out the comments. They are full of people going "haha american terrorist, eu weak. russia strong we beat fascist!" It is amazing what they believe.

>>30807886
And if they weren't part of NATO they would have already been annexed.

>>30799796
That makes sense, considering that Russia's military is the only one the US has to prepare to fight against.


...

>>30797329
>>30800116

Lenin said that