How would you modernize NATO so that it's not a tiered organization

>>30786995
You could start by forcing every nation to stick to the agreed 2% minimum.

>>30786995
dismantle it

>>30786995
Remove countries like Germany, France and UK, although they are big, they are not very effective.

Keep effective countries, and let the others work to get to a NATO standard again.

>>30787114
What are effective countries then?
The UK is pretty much the only one with any proper capability outside of the USA

>>30787114

Half the time I can't tell if these posts are bait or not.

>>30786995
Stop having a profit based military industrial complex, and one that is aimed at making an effective wartime fighting force.

>>30786995
Give NATO a competitive Air Force composed of other countries which pledge allegiance to a global body instead of individual countries.

Give NATO a navy of the same formula

Give NATO a patch of land as its own independent country which would allow foreign fighters to join its ranks and compose the biggest and best military in the world.

>>30787152

*fart*

>>30787151
Well, that doesn't make any sense if there's no profit in war what's the point of war?

>>30787161
there is a difference between companies make fat loads of money on shitty equipment, and a nation gaining resources from another nation.

>>30787152
Lets kick Turkey out and just take Thrace

>>30787114
>>30787126
Anglos plz.

>>30787181
Greece would be a better option, they are total trash

>>30787181
Ok...

>>30787160
*stares*

>>30787171
Shouldn't be stealing resources in the first place.

>>30786995
Tell everyone who's not making the cut to shape up or fuck off.
>two years to get up to the 2% GDP threshold
>if you don't make it after that time you're out
>if you get kicked out you can't reapply for five years

Rename it to the US military and kick out Canada.

>>30786995
More standardisation : all NATO countries should be using the same equipment, which cuts down on reseach and development, as well as logistics. There's no excuse for France, Italy and Britain to have their own tanks that no one else uses.
An army : NATO needs a more centralised army that could at least respond to any threat before the members can assemble and respond on their own individually.

Remove US military bases from Europe and Turkey.

While keeping the US' promise to come and liberate them from Russians.

>>30786995
infrequent reminder europe isn't forcing america to have a humongous defense budget, that is entirely your own decision, and it's americas choice to poor that much money into nato

wow, it's almost like america is doing it for the power and influence..

>>30787151
Stop having governments and parliaments that are bought by the MIC, rather. Good luck.

>>30787114
>>30787455
And then what, you'll allow russia to take germany if it comes to it (but not poland, since it makes the 2%)?

>>30787152
>>30788127
Armies must not be controlled by an entity that is not democratically elected end legitimized. We tried this supranational thing with the EU and it doesn't exactly inspire trust.

Standardisation is actually advancing (kmw-nexter fusion will produce the next european mtb for example) but there's not actually much procurement right now anyway. Also, joint european projects (eurofighter, a400 etc.) are usually rather shit because the participating MoDs and companies are simply incompetent... but then again they don't want to rely on US companies for everything.

>>30788328
>And then what, you'll allow russia to take germany if it comes to it (but not poland, since it makes the 2%)?
We've defended Germany since 1945 and gotten shit all in return for it. Now the ungrateful fuckwads are ruining the rest of the continent, AGAIN, with mass Muslim immigration and EU overreach. At some point we need compensation for this shit or we're going to walk away.

put Poland in charge desu

>>30786995
Leave it

Washington warned of entangling alliances

>>30788328
>this Russia will invade Europe meme

Newsflash, the cold war is over. Russia has zero interest in invading Germany. There isn't anything to gain by such an action. Just let this tired old meme fucking die.

Besides, yes. If Germany (a rich ass country) is unable to meet its 2% required GDP spending as stipulated in the treaty while countries like fucking Greece somehow manage to do so, then they should be fucking kicked out of NATO. And if they should get attacked by anyone, no one in NATO should be obligated to help Germany because Germany literally did this to themselves.

>>30788347
You can walk away from germany, but germany is not threatened (well not externally). Poland or the baltics are, but having germany on board (no matter how little they can or will contribute) is always better than the alternative. Which is why germany could contribute jack shit without getting thrown out.

>>30788375
>Newsflash, the cold war is over. Russia has zero interest in invading Germany. There isn't anything to gain by such an action. Just let this tired old meme fucking die.
t. putin

>>30788387
Why don't you explain to us what advantages lay in Russia invading Germany? What is the end goal? Is Russia going to annex Germany? Is it going to slaughter the entire population? Is it going to create a gigantic puppet state and expect to hold onto it? What possible reason could Russia have for invading Germany? What would make this war worth the expense and the inevitable economic and likely military retaliations that the Russians would end up facing?

Hire Johnathan Irons.

>>30788381
Why is it better? What do we gain from letting Germany slack off and poison the rest of the continent using money that should be spent on defense? This is verging on /pol/ material but if they were meeting their NATO obligations the impossibility of letting in more rapefugees would become immediately obvious to anyone with a brain or a calculator.

>>30787024
>>30787455
UK does that by including pensions so only really spending 1.7% not 2%.
>>30788347
you've occuppied it: bit of a difference.

>>30788484
>UK does that by including pensions so only really spending 1.7% not 2%.
So we kick their limey asses out too if they don't pay up. This is not a difficult concept.

>>30788375
>>30788387
>>30788460
Noone will invade germany, which was exactly my point. Let's lay out a more realistic scenario here:
https://defense-and-freedom.blogspot.de/2016/07/how-to-invade-baltic-countries-and-get.html
Tl, dr: Russia takes the baltics and threatens everyone who wants it back with nukes

>>30788477
You gain nothing by throwing it out of NATO either, and you won't stop it from slacking off or comitting national suicide obviously.

>>30788531
Anon germany is already being invaded.

>>30788531
That's retarded vatnik fan fiction. If Russia invades the Baltics, Moscow won't exist six hours later.

>>30787063
this. leave nato, form strong alliance with canada, japan, australia, new zealand, and south korea. disregard europe entirely. let them fucking burn.

>>30788328
Democracy isn't the worlds answer to all governments some people don't want to live under democracy

>>30788127
More Standardization yes. It makes absolutely no sense for Europe treaty members to waste the resources. They should all be using standardized equipment and vehicles.

America's military needs are inherently going to be different than Europe's because it's more likely to deploy in Tropical and Desert Climates trying to project force overseas. It makes sense that they are going to deviate in some respects from continental NATO standard. The next generation of American MBT will be very different from the M1A1 (which was designed for defensive combat in Europe) for example.

>>30788572
And seven hours later, the world is a nuclear wasteland?
I'm glad you're not in charge of these things anon.

>>30788691
MAD worked as deterrent for almost fifty years with the Soviets. We've got an edge on the Russians now so it wouldn't even necessarily be mutual.

>>30788328
>>30788387
Anyone who thinks Russian has the equipment or the funds needed to invade and occupy a country is delusional

>>30788691
>nuclear war will end the world
get all your education from Hollywood, anon?

>>30787455
One of the pro nato arguments I've seen on the news here in Finland is that it wouldn't be as expensive as the opposing side claims since no one really pays the required 2% so Finland too could join ind and not up its defense budget.

>>30788724
That's not going to fly if Trump wins. You fuckers share a huge land border with Russia. Why you don't spend more on defense is beyond me.

>>30788716
Destroying moscow would trigger a massive counter strike for sure. That's most of the northern hemisphere irradiated (yeah, not strictly speaking the entire world. It's called hyperbole.)

>>30788728
It's beyond me too, but not much I can do to change that except by voting. And I am Pro NATO but I oppose the idea that Finland would somehow sneak in and not carry its weight in the alliance. Thats like women in military.

>>30788127
>NATO needs a more centralised army that could at least respond to any threat before the members can assemble and respond on their own individually.
yeah, it's called the Nato Response Force, it already exists

some times it seems /k/ has absolutely no fucking idea that NATO is doing lots of training and exercises with thousands of soldiers from NATO countries in the baltics, and it maintains a QRF with a few thousand soldiers, and they have soldiers stationed in eastern europe with soldiers from several countries, they are sort of like a tripwire I guess, where if Russia does something stupid in eastern yurop, it's a declaration of war on NATO

>>30787024
don't get too autistic about numbers, the world doesn't work like that

>>30787152
So...what you're saying is you want to build a nation of soldiers?

Is that you Boss?

>>30788789
Tbh. germany could be spending their 2% and still be worthless in a war, because the populace would go full pacifist russiaboo in that case.

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>>30787152
That would be Heaven. An.... Outer Heaven...

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>>30788127
All NATO nations should switch to .45 stronk

>>30786995
>How would you modernize NATO so that it's not a tiered organization like it has turned into?
New rules:
- Follow the rules or get annexed
- border nations must guard and fortify their borders
- nations bordering border nations must guard and fortify their borders
- illegals are kill on sight, they are foreign spies ;)
- fulfill your obligation/s or risk not having obligations to you not fulfilled
- immigration must be capped at 0.05% of (legal/permanent) population
- must have domestic arms production capability of suitable levels to supply military
- must have domestic stockpiles of suitable size to supply military for at least 3 months
- no open borders
- make efforts for common parts in small arms. (no reason why pins and grips can't be ar pins/grips)
- your military must be trained ahead of time
- your military must have fitness/health standards
- women are only permitted to fulfill support roles
- officers must know english
- civilians must have access to arms and resistance training (france gave up twice, no one else is ever allowed to do so again)

Democratically elect generals

>>30788852
>Democratically elect generals
... are you stupid?

>>30788801
>>30788821
I'm sure if NATO had a patch of land people would take it seriously and many people would sign up to join its ranks.

>>30788863
haha tricked ha

>>30788845
Holy shit Hitler calm down. That bunch of totalitarian shit would not modernize NATO, It would be destroyed, completely. Turkey might stay in with Poland but thats about it.

>>30788845
edgy fedora tipper

>>30788728
It's because Russia has an economy smaller than that of Italy and is only seen as a threat to the EU by American fantasist and low end security "experts"

>>30788845
Sounds reasonable.

>>30788845
>france gave up twice

Why are Americans so stupid?

>>30788845
Fullretard.exe.tar.bz.png.tiff

>>30786995
Just leave it.

It should just be US and maybe Canada after annexation against the world.

Alternatively leave nato and instead form new alliance with Poland, and shit. Countries that actually care about defense.

>>30788257
Friendly reminder that NATO obligations are to have 2% GDP on defense spending, Europe.

>>30788257
Or because there are only 2 other countries that spend the required amount so US has to pick up the slack.

Reminder almost all nato nations require US logistics support to do anything.

It would be too hard to standardize a single vehicle across NATO

>>30788880
>implying arab horde isn't a threat to NATO nations
>implying overthrow of NATO nation governments isn't harmful to NATO
>implying muslims don't see NATO as a barrier to a caliphate
The only thing I said even close to hitler-y was follow the rules or get annexed. It seems like you think I meant a NATO nation would do the annexing.
I meant either meet the requirements for being a member nation (exceptions for economic emergencies), or don't be a member nation.

>>30788893
It's a meme.
We are aware of the french resistance, but they did a pretty piss poor job. France isn't luxemburg, there is no excuse.

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>>30786995
Leave it the fuck alone, jesus christ. why are you faggots always clamoring for us to get rid of our hegemony? It's like you don't even want to maintain the American empire. I suppose because "lel soft power doesn't real, let's neutrality it up like it's the fucking 1930's" yeah, just piss all over what our ancestors fought and died to carve out. piss all over nearly 100 years of diplomacy

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Disband NATO so they can be independent and stop sucking US dick for protection.

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Even if NATO didnt exist, Russia couldnt invade Europe, because the latter have twice the men and 3 times the budget
From this point, NATO existence is fucked.

The people who want to uphold the 2% of military budget are completely missing the point, because if those country did have 2% they wouldnt need to join NATO in the first place and would use their military for their own geopolitical gain
France joined NATO for the sole purpose of spending less and relying on the US for defense and the same is true for almost every EU country

That's the tradeoff of NATO : you become a US satellite state but they pay for your defense
The day europe go back to spending money on their military will be the day NATO die

>>30786995
> americans acutally belive this shit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-Be9f7Ovgg

>>30788724
Finland doesn't even use NATO standard ammo

>>30789089
Please explain what fucking good it is having an "empire" that still treats us like a foreign country, doesn't pay taxes, and provides no benefit to our domestic economy. Please explain why we shouldn't just let Europe wallow in its own filth and die if they're too stupid to un-fuck their continent. If we're going to have an empire then let's MAKE it an empire. Run up the Stars and Stripes over London, Paris, Brussels, Berlin, and Warsaw and fold their militaries into the Pentagon.

>>30789214
>let's MAKE it an empire. Run up the Stars and Stripes over London, Paris, Brussels, Berlin, and Warsaw and fold their militaries into the Pentagon.
ready when you are, bud.
for now, it's nice to have military bases in nearly every corner of the world and have most of europe as our de facto vassals

>>30789214
>Please explain why we shouldn't just let Europe wallow in its own filth and die if they're too stupid to un-fuck their continent.
Because if europe falls to the horde, then american fake muslims will turn into real muslims.
Then we will have the same problems they have.


Europe is composed almost entirely of cucks; cucks that will willingly convert and join the war effort. America can't fight off the plague with liberal politicians trying to turn us into europe.


>tl;dr
europe is a buffer

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>>30789287
>Because if europe falls to the horde, then american fake muslims will turn into real muslims

Say the five sacred words with me

I

Wish

A

Nigga

Would

>>30789287
>Then we will have the same problems they have.
If that happens we can declare Islam a political movement and not a religion. Poof go the First Amendment protections, and suddenly every mosque in the country gets raided by the IRS.

>>30789214
>Please explain what fucking good it is having an "empire" that still treats us like a foreign country, doesn't pay taxes, and provides no benefit to our domestic economy.
You get to have an ally that doesnt meddle too hard with your enemy, aka Russia/China and follow you in your stupid adventures and agree with you everytime publicly
All that for a very very small price

That's pretty much what NATO is. The US could put a stop to it at anytime, but so far no such and you can guess why

>>30788942
>almost all nato nations require US logistics support to do anything.
they don't require it to operate within their own borders
they just require it when they need to deploy troops in Afghanistan because America wants to war Afghanistan, or when they need to bomb libya on Americas behalf

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>>30789340
>but so far no such and you can guess why

I really can't.

>>30787063
No, I like my military bases scattered across the world like jacks.

It's like throwing you hands up next to your wife yelling "I WANT A DIVORCE RIGHT NOW" and exiting the door.

So no.

>>30789375
No such thing because it's a good deal for the US

The alternative is the US stop upholding their role of guardian of Europe
EU is forced to remilitarize, suddenly US assistance isnt needed anymore and Europeans country have the mean to enforce their own diplomacy everywhere on the globe with their own military instead of blindly defending US interests

At some point US and EU interests may clash and EU may look toward China or Russia for "better relationships". They both try to get closer to EU since 20y and NATO make it impossible, now they can and the resulting alliance make them awfully strong.

The statu quo exist for a reason, both EU and US are "winning" something in the current NATO and it will take something strong to break it

>>30789452
And in the midst of the geo-political argument I forgot the actual strongest argument for nato : people

US citizens love NATO
EU citizens love NATO
They both have no idea how it work but they love it, so good luck getting elected on dismantling it

>>30789479
>They both have no idea how it work but they love it, so good luck getting elected on dismantling it
Trump is publicly threatening to throw countries that don't pay up out of NATO and has a significant lead in the polls right now.

>>30789500
Does the president even have the power to throw countries out of NATO? I really doubt it tbqf

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>>30787024
But that will help Putin goy

>>30789500
Trump position on NATO have nothing to do with his position in the polls

The US periodically threaten to throw countries that dont pay up
The EU periodically promise to raise its spending

Both are lying, both knows it, the statu quo remain strong

>>30787464
Underrated post.

>>30787152
>Give NATO a patch of land as its own independent country which would allow foreign fighters to join its ranks and compose the biggest and best military in the world.
So outer heaven basically

>>30789534
The difference is that Trump isn't part of the political class.

>>30789520
He can order the military to kick their personnel out of NATO bases, remove US forces deployed in a country, and refuse to deploy US forces in the event of said delinquent country calling an Article V.

You don't.
Deal with it we pay as much as we do know or we don't fight in YOUR shitty American wars.

>>30789589
>euopean risk assesment
>without NATO, you are at risk of being mildly annoyed
>without NATO, we are at risk of not existing
>fuck you America!
gg

>>30789564
>The difference is that Trump isn't part of the political class.
I like trump but that's both wrong and irrelevant

What does he gain by dismantling NATO exactly ? What would be his endgame here ?

>>30789615
>le Russia wants war
>le Russia is capble of taking europe meme
>muh red scare
Turn off fox news sometimes you fat fuck.

>>30789633
>implying the threat comes from the commies
>implying commies have reason to fear commies
The threat comes from the sandlot and africa.

>>30789654
Europe doesnt need the US to close down its own frontier, it's purely an european problem

>>30789654
>talking about Russia
>muh "commies"
Moronic American subhuman.

What threat is Africa and the Middle East to Europa? Hurry up and tell me big guy.
I'm laughing at you whilst drinking my koffe you Americans are like a cute pet to me.

>>30789618
He gains a hell of a lot of room in the government budget towards infrastructure projects or paying down the national debt if we don't have to subsidize the military defense of an entire second continent.

Flip it around the other way. The EU is increasingly lost to Muslims and insane liberals, and keep throwing up trade barriers to protect their sclerotic industries. They recently terminated a "safe harbor" agreement with the that was the entire legal basis for having a cloud industry with companies having datacenters on both sides of the Atlantic, for example. What do we gain from propping up these fucktards that seem hell bent on their own demographic displacement and demise?

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>>30789671
>Europe doesnt need the US to close down its own frontier

>>30788484
>UK does that by including pensions so only really spending 1.7% not 2%


hur military pensions are not military expenditure. What next? wages aren't military expenditure.

The US does exactly the same thing and they also include all of their intelligence agencies.

>>30789654
Yes, because America has had such great success in dealing with that.

NATO is obsolete and remains solely because it gives the US government a way to convince its voters that the huge amounts of military spending it has actually does something.

You Americans are fucking hilarious.

Our countries have on average 3% Muslims (excluding France,Bosnia and Albania) and we accept around 40 thousand refugees only Germany imports a lot but they hardly had any in the first place and it has a huge population.

Lets say Texas was independant would they need America for protection against mass shootings? Don't be so stupid.

>>30789692
>every single border state in the US has a hispanic majority

cool story hank

>>30789736
Fifty years ago, your countries were on average 0% Muslim except the few Islamic shithole wannabe states on the periphery. Americans can apparently extrapolate population growth rates better than you.

NATO needs to crack down on countries that are trying to skimp on their defence spending. Also an increase to 4% of GDP so countries can have better equipment nd larger air forces/navies would be good to0.

>>30789680
>I'm laughing at you whilst drinking my koffe you Americans are like a cute pet to me.
Are you an alien? What type of special nutrient fluid is koffe?
Also I warn you, we have a savior champion named Jeff Goldblum.


>>talking about Russia
>>muh "commies"
>Moronic American subhuman.
Someone implied I meant commies. I continued the implication for keks before correcting. Can you really call me a moran for that?


.
>What threat is Africa and the Middle East to Europa?
https://www.google.com/#q=beheading+europe+%2Crecent
https://www.google.com/#q=what+is+shariah%3F
https://www.google.com/#q=what+is+a+caliphate
https://www.google.com/#q=what+were+the+crusades+fought+for
https://www.google.com/#q=muslim+support+for+terrorism+polls
https://www.google.com/#q=muslim+invaders

>>30789737
Arizona and Texas are ~30% Hispanic, and with the upcoming crackdowns on immigration that's going to decrease in the future.

>>30789683
>He gains a hell of a lot of room in the government budget
Good luck explaining slashing half the military budget to the americans people after they've been told for 20y that they really really need it

Now i'm not against your idea, I'm european and think EU should remilitarize, and the first step toward that is leaving NATO, so trump kicking everyone is fine by me
I just dont think it's gonna happen

>>30789737
>Tejanos and Californios
>Same as Mexicans
You dun goof.

>>30788127
>An army : NATO needs a more centralised army that could at least respond to any threat before the members can assemble and respond on their own individually.
>NATO standing armies
NEW
WORLD
GOVERNMENT

>>30789791
>Good luck explaining slashing half the military budget to the americans people after they've been told for 20y that they really really need it
The American people are sick and tired of bleeding, paying, and dying to help other people. The political mood is right for it. The real problem has always been Congress, since military spending is seen as local jobs programs by their constituents.

>>30789791
>Good luck explaining slashing half the military budget to the americans people after they've been told for 20y that they really really need it
"We're going to spend our military budget on our military instead of propping up leeches"

>>30789761
Fifty years ago the US had segregation laws, a proper border with Mexico and probably the best standard of living in the world.

Now it has a nigger President, a hole where the border used to be and has seen every single one of its major cities turn into literal warzones.

Even if every single murder and crime in Europe was committed by Muslims, it would still be at about ten percent of the rate of crime committed by black and hispanic Americans. Explain that one.

>>30789692
US is invaded by mexicans
Does the US need EU to close down its frontier ? Or could the problem be completely off-topic here ?

>>30789785
>Muh sharia
Off-topic again, they're not a military threat, they're a terrorist threat, the US cant help here

>>30789810
The US already spend its budget on its own military
They dont pay for EU military, they pay for EU defense with US soldiers, US equipments and US bases and they're free to stop anytime

>>30789825
>Off-topic again, they're not a military threat, they're a terrorist threat, the US cant help here
It's in NATO's interests to fight against foreign revolutions in member states.

>>30789817
>muh segregation
Back to stormfront, kid.

>>30789817
Segregation laws were unconstitutional since they relied on skin color rather than something more objectively tied to behavior, like criminal record or genetics. Now that we've mapped the human genome we can discriminate based on genetic predisposition to violent behavior. The wall is going to be rebuilt bigger and better than ever, and the war zones are a self-solving problem so long as we can keep the niggers reproducing below replacement rate.

As for the Hispanics, Trump has riled them up so much that if he wins, they may revolt and we'll be allowed to gun them down.

>>30789858
>It's in NATO's interests
Sure but the question is : Is NATO any useful/necessary at counter-terrorism ? The answer is an explicit no.
EU could get out of NATO tomorrow and their sandniggers problem would be the same

>>30789903
We only have modern examples of counter terrorism attempts in foreign countries.
Could be different if you're fighting an active terrorist group in your own territory.

>>30786995
There are two things I would do.

First: You NEED to spend 2% of your GDP on defense. If you don't, you will be given a two year warning to return to said level. If you haven't fixed it by then, you're out. No dead weight.

Second, I would increase the size of NATO's ready forces. Not the QRF force, but a second string unit to head in immediately following it, with heavier equipment, in the strength of a corps.

>>30789817
>a proper border with Mexico

I don't believe you. There was no wall!

>>30786995
Remove Turkey, impose 2% minimum for membership, lose membership if you don't keep it at 2%.

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>>30787152
We ISAF now.

>>30788845
>Immigration must be capped at 0.05%
Dare I ask how this applies to refugees of wars, national disasters and general unrest?

I mean, I know the answer, but I like to live in hope.

>>30794534
It includes them.
Importing large numbers of people inferior to the average citizen based on any metric is a recipe for disaster.
The percentage is large enough that member states can easily acquire all the skilled immigrants they want.

>>30794578
I am entirely unsurprised by this response.

So why am I still disappointed?

>>30794534
>>30794578
To clarify it's 0.05% annually, not in total.

>>30788375
>Newsflash, the cold war is over. Russia has zero interest in invading Germany. There isn't anything to gain by such an action. Just let this tired old meme fucking die.

Russia has every interest in invading Germany, if only to prevent them from kicking Russia out of the Baltics and the Balkans.

>>30793810
There's a treaty, called "Washington treaty" or "North Atlantic Treaty". NATO is not a dictatorship.

>>30793002
No, one doesn't need to spend 2% on defence.
Europe spends much less and European NATO is (even without American NATO) vastly superior to Russia.
Vastly more spending, almost 2:1 numerical superiority in troops etc.

>>30789896
No, you can't. for starters, there's no such genetics research. Second, the constitution considers people as equals, not as sets of DNA.

>>30789809
The U.S. military isn't exactly known for helping foreigners. Especially not post.1991.

>>30789768
As mentioned before; NATO is a treaty organisation, not a regime and even 2% GDP is too much military spending.

----------
Finally some info: The "2% GDP spending" rule is hot air. It doesn't have any force. It was made up by the ministers of defence together, but they have no legislative power to write budgets, and their declaration of intent is thus irrelevant. The parliaments have the power to set budgets, and they never agreed on a 2% rule.

The 2% rule is the equivalent of a waiter telling you to give higher tips in the future.

>>30789618
He's paying off debt he owes to the Russians.

>>30789809

You know what the main clause of NATO is?

Article V, the collective defense clause that states and attack on one is an attack on all.

You know which country was the only one to invoke Article V?

It's the US after 9/11.

You know which NATO countries refused the call?

None of them, every single NATO member sent soldiers to Afghanistan to fight and die because the US invoked article V.

You know who didn't go to Afghanistan, Trump Jr and Eric Trump. Putting your life on the line for America is something for poors, immigrants, the naive, and NATO allies.

>>30787152
>Give NATO a patch of land

Who's gonna cough up the clay? Patches of country-sized land don't just exist because you want them to.

Also, what's the point of that patch of land when NATO is a union of member states rallying around the common defense of same? You'd add what is essentially another country, but one that doesn't make money, and just spends it?

I mean, I get the "war nation" thing, but I I think there would be a number of logistical issues around that notion which would make it breddy much untenable.

>>30794631
>for starters, there's no such genetics research.
wew lad

20 generation to 33% domestication. You can breed for aggression and violent tendencies too, and they did.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dmitry_Konstantinovich_Belyaev
We've been separated for much much much much longer than 20 generations. There are human sub-species with definite physical and behavioral tendencies.
There is no denying that behavior, intelligence, and physiology are largely a direct result of genetics.


>Second, the constitution considers people as equals, not as sets of DNA.
You fucking mongolian mongoloid mongrel, read the constitution and understand it. It considers people equal under the law.

>>30794827
Unless you were black or a women. Then the constitution didnt see you equal. But its okay, many generations later we made a few amendments.

>>30787152
ur country can pay for it LOL

>>30794962
or the uneducated, or those who lacked any personal interest in the continuation of the republic/rule of law, or those mentally deficient (children, women, retards).
The arguments and reasons why the founding fathers permitted and prohibited certain groups from voting are/were well reasoned and valid.
The founding fathers were aware of the fact that they were proposing would seemingly arbitrarily prohibit certain peoples from voting, but one of the arguments went like so:

- By what metric do we not allow a man of age 17 years and 11 months to vote, yet we allow a man of age 18 to vote?
- We all know of faggots over 18 who are retarded faggots, and of young men under 18 who are as intelligent as the best of us.
- age is not a perfect metric for who makes a suitable voter
- any metric we choose will be flawed
- we must choose metric/s that will prohibit those who would not take voting seriously the most
- women are mentally children, they are out
- children are mentally children, they are out
- blacks/slaves are mentally children, they are out
- invalids and retards are mentally children, they are out
- those who don't own property have a substantially lessened interest in what is best for the people and the republic, they are out
- those who are poor (don't own property) will sell their votes, that would seriously fuck things up if politicians could just raid the treasury to stay in office (good thing that hasn't happened yet...), they are out
- well shit, property owning men age 18 and up is the best requirement we can have to maintain order and prosperity for the nation and her people...
- It kinda sucks, but it's close enough I guess


.


> tl;dr
only permitting free men to vote was the best possible choice for the nation's, republic's, and their people's prosperity.

>>30795183
Naw mang, Fuck that sheet.
They was racists and bigots in the patriarchy.

>>30789214
>Run up the Stars and Stripes over London, Paris, Brussels, Berlin, and Warsaw

We would need to add more stars.

>>30795369
You have to earn them first.

>>30789421
>It's like throwing you hands up next to your wife yelling "I WANT A DIVORCE RIGHT NOW" and exiting the door.
I mean you can always wait for her to divorce YOU and take half your shit...

>>30795369
We could do it to the Philippines, Japan, and South Korea too for maximum troll factor.
"You all suck at foreign policy and we were defending you anyway. Enjoy your burgers."

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>>30795414

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>>30793984
Ayy

>>30794827
Obviously, you don't even understand what you're writing yourself, LOL.

>>30788581
>implying the canadian gov't spends money on its military

"the decade of darkness" is still on going, anon.

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>>30789692
no

>>30787063
/thread

>>30794820
>2016
> not building your own island

>>30794991
My country is America we pay for NATO enough.

>>30786995
Disband it. NATO was created to counter the Warsaw Pact, which hasn't existed since 1991.

>>30789357
>it's all Americas fault!

>>30788581
Can't disagree

>>30788586
I totally agree democracy is not the answer. In the long run democracy sucks because it allows the 51% steal from the 49%.
Just because 51% thinks slavery is awesome doesn't make it right.

>>30788943
Why? Most off road vehicles are not designed just for snow or sand. Normally you just switch out the tires.