Why is 40. so universally ridiculed on /k/? You get nearly

>Is it because muh capacity and muh stopping power fags just can't get along?
that's exactly why. Why compromise when you get pick the side that you prefer?

I thought it's recoil was a bit excessive for what it was. Felt very "snappy".
More recoil than a 9 with less capacity.
Does not seem much better than either 9 or 45 anyway.

.45's difference in muzzle energy is negligible over 9mm. It's different, but not enough to make a notable difference in lethality against a human target.

If you want a .45, that's still cool. You can have your reasons for that. But you gain nothing from picking .40. It loses whatever advantage .45 might have given you, while still having nothing over 9mm. You sacrifice the capacity of the 9, lose the perceived oomph of the .45, gain snappier recoil and increased wear.

It's not a compromise as much as it is a lose-lose, you're taking the worst of both calibers instead of the best.

>>30786250
>>30786293
correct

>>30786250
>>30786293
>>30786524
So in other words it's just a meme and people don't like it because it's not they're favorite cartridge. Got it.

>>30786543

At least they gave reasons, unlike your abortion post.

>>30786543
Autism and cancer in one move, great job ethan.

>>30786293
You're so white I just might charge you double.

>>30786187
>>30786293
>muzzle energy
>relevent
kek
What are you fuckers going to compare next, their rotational inertia?

>>30786604
Well the second guy was saying it was negligible.

>>30786293
wrong on so many levels 40 is superior to both 45 and 9. velocity and mass to penetrate, literally what neither 9 or 45 have both of

Why are there so many buttfucking children on right now?

40 doesnt get deflected as easily as 45 or 9, it punches through barriers and stays intact

>>30786611

The fact that he's making a comparison between them is the problem.
It has no direct relationship with lethality.

Kinetic energy is just a measure of work done on an object.
Lighter objects are more efficient to perform work on, so a comparison favors lighter objects.
Which is obvious just by looking at the formula.
k=(1/2)mv^2
Having more kinetic energy does not in any way mean your target is going to be more dead.

>>30786621
If barrier pennetration is that much of an issue why not go 10mm?

>>30786613
Wat

The difference is negligible and not worth the downsides of using a higher pressure cartrige.

Look at hospital DOA rates from pistol wounds my dude.

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>>30786187
good woods gun. thats why i got it. magdumpbing with some buffalo bore into a boar, black bear, or even a moose should take care of it. i only have one pistol and its a .40 because it has to fill many roles. home defense, cc, shtf, hunting sidearm, and hiking/camping gun. i also have a .357 barrel which is the real mustard rice.

>>30786643

Not the guy you're talking to, and I agree on your points, but looking at "DOA rates from pistol wounds" is bad science.

>>30786627
Of course not, however it's one of many factors that contribute to the damage potential of a round. This is why most centerfire rifles simply cause more damage than most centerfire pistols. Course there's exceptions, comparing like .454 to something and what not.

I learned to shoot handguns with my dad's .40 so when I bought my first one I got what I was comfortable with. After shooting every common hand gun caliber there is in hindsight I wish I picked up a 9. But I still carry a .40 because its what im comfortable with. Ive never found it snappy (maybe because its what i learned on) and shoot accurately with it so I guess that's all that matters.

>>30786652
What are you talking about? CLEARLY, .22LR is the deadliest caliber. Numbers don't lie.

>>30786656

>Of course not, however it's one of many factors that contribute to the damage potential of a round.
Uh, no.
It's a pointless number without context. And even in context, it's not directly useful.
Like bullet grain.

If you took a really heavy round like .45 acp, and loaded it with a bullet half the normal weight, it would have more kinetic energy than a super hot .357 magnum.

But it would also have a much lower cross sectional density, and larger frontal surface area, meaning it would perform much worse.

A more useful thing to look at would be a round's momentum. Because from there you get a much better sense of not only how much force acted on the round, but also how much recoil it has.

>>30786669

Numbers don't lie, but they love misleading the stupid and gullible.

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>>30786686
Yeah, you're right, KE plays no part in wounding, that's why this round that's why 5.56 sucks.

Protip force is the chumps way to look at round wounding potential.

>>30786702

>Yeah, you're right, KE plays no part in wounding, that's why this round that's why 5.56 sucks.
How exactly do you think kinetic energy works?
When it hits you, does it shoot lightning into your body or something?

Because I see a would caused by high velocity bullet yaw, followed by fragmentation, and maybe some rupturing caused by the temporary cavity.
I mean, I'm no doctor, but that's what it looks like to me.

>Protip force is the chumps way to look at round wounding potential.
I didn't say to look at a bullet's force.
A bullet in flight doesn't have force. Force is a number you derive from acceleration, which a bullet in flight doesn't have. (negating air resistance)

>>30786718
https://www.quora.com/Which-one-makes-a-bullet-dangerous-its-kinetic-energy-or-its-momentum

Stop be stupid now.

>Glock is good because so many police departments choose to use it!!!
>.40 sucks despite so many police departments choosing to use it...

>>30786802
I always thought this and I could never come up with a reason as to why the connection ends at the caliber

>>30786802
Yeah but FBI switched and is encouraging dudes to switch to 9. And they're the ones who wanted it in the first place lol.

>>30786702
>>30786718
>>30786770
Can we just agree that energy plays a part in bullet lethality but it's the end all and be all?

>>30786844
No shite, that's my entire point, it's not a perfect measure by any means, but it's literally a measure of how much energy the object has to impart into a target, that's a baseline to add other factors into, its why bullets are measured in it.

>>30786770

That's the most stupid argument I've seen.

A baseball isn't going to hurt as much because it's soft, and the impact area is larger.
If you had a bullet the weight of a baseball hitting you in the head at 85 mph, it would hollow your head out like a watermelon.

>>30786702

This.

I think that's where "stopping power" comes from, energy transfer. A 9mm is very fast and can over penetrate. A .45 hits and dumps all it's energy quickly because it's larger and slower

>>30786868
Okay, turn the baseball into metal.

>both have same momentum
>good measure of potential lethality

I get that you just took your conceptual physics class in highschool but, please, learn.

>>30786887

>Okay, turn the baseball into metal.
Then you'd have to either change the weight or the size.

>both have same momentum
To keep the same momentum, you'd have to make it smaller to keep it the same weight, and you'd end up with exactly what i was talking about.
Are you retarded?

>>30786840
there could be other reasons behind it that don't have anything to do with 40 "being bad"
let's say, and I'm not saying this is true I'm only entertaining one popular theory, that they switched because some agents couldn't handle the recoil and snappyness of it.
It wouldn't look good to say, "yeah our chicks can't handle it so we're switching to a slighty less lethal round"
it's the gov man, they will whore out to the cheapest bidder

>>30786280
I never understood this, I own a .40 so I've gotten used to it, but how is .40 snappy but .45 isn't just as snappy?
>too lazy to go look at my reload book at how much pressure the loads give

>>30786875
Explain how "dumping energy" to make a slow forming temporary wound cavity is desirable.

>>30786187
Most of the people i know who bought a 40 didn't have alot of experience with firearms and probably couldn't decide between 9mm and something larger. All the ones I've shot with personally have preferred the felt recoil of my fnp.45 to whatever they had. Honestly it's not a bad round, it's just not "special" in any way.

>>30786905
Police departments have a lot of chicks too.

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>>30786650
this nigger gets it

Redpill me on 10mm

>>30786914
.45 is relatively low pressure. The recoil may be just as strong but it's slower and smoother.

>>30786914
.40 is "snappy" and .45ACP is "pushy"
it comes from the fact that .40sw has a muzzle velocity of around 1150 fps @ 165gr, while .45 ACP muzzle velocity is 830 @ 230gr weight.
it's mostly anecdotal, but think of it like the recoil between 5.7x28 and 5.56x45 (a snap versus a smack): .40sw has a larger relative powder load and chamber pressure than .45ACP and so there's a higher delta-v that's exerting force on the gun, one of the reasons .40sw pistols were known to "beat themselves to death"
>>30786875
you're on the right track, but you're wrong. .45 has a higher propensity to overpenetrate (if we're talking about FMJ) because its higher bullet weight carries more momentum through the target.
.45 ACP has a higher KE than 9mm at muzzle velocity, but also has a much higher momentum, which means it requires more energy to decelerate (as in passing through tissue)
>>30786802
I like .40 but the military uses 9mm and .45, and the FBI and multiple police departments have switched to .357 SIG

>>30786947
Well police departments have tougher chicks than the fbi then

>>30786968
>>30786978
Gotcha gotcha, I load some 155gr .40 and my XD-40 takes em down pretty good

>>30786947
PDs also have more control over what they want to do, a PD across town could use completely different ammo from the one next to it.
If the FBI says we're doing "X" then the Bureau is doing "X"

>>30786613

If this is what you want, why not take .357 SIG?

It is better at that than .40

>>30786968

.45ACP is my favorite pistol caliber to shoot for this reason. It's a nice comfortable round.

>>30787142
They're pretty heavy too, so it kinda stings just having them thrown at you

>>30787113
Not him but I would love to have something in 357 sig that wasn't a thousand fucking dollars

>>30787251

You can get a police trade-in G31 for less than $400

.357 sig stronk

>>30786914
.40 is 35k so is 9mm, .45 is either 18 or 20k

>>30786902
are you really this dense?

>>30786604
9mm has a faster twist rate than .45, so 9 mm spins faster. This clearly makes 9mm the superior cartridge.

>>30786187
This compromise meme can spin on eternally desu, because surely someone somewher will want to have something bigger than .40 but less than .45 or bigger than 9mm but smaller than .40.
Instead of chasing something that fits X parameters exactly and create 9, 67mm or .43 caliber ammo, just get something that is already available in large amount and learn to use it well.

>>30786187
.40 Short and Weak is ridiculed because it's effectively a lower capacity 9mm in terms of delivered energy. 10mm has just as much capacity as .40S&W and blows the doors off it in power. Literally the only reason .40S&W exists is because female FBI agents cried when they had to shoot 10mm.

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>>30787607
>67mm handgun ammo
Fund it

>>30787650
I think he's a europoor who tried to type "9.67mm" but the freedom deficiency gave him the shakes.

>>30787664
Yeah I am writing on my phone at my granddad's place.

>>30787650
I'd still like some 67mm

>>30787664
My sides hurt so good.

>>30786187
Jack of all trades, master of none.

Pick a side dude.

>>30786293
>But you gain nothing from picking .40
Except for twice as much capacity.

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>>30787664
Sounds awful
I hear with a freedom deficiency your 15x more likely to have massive Islamic immigration

>>30786187
The flight dynamics of the bullet itself are flawed.

>>30787734
That is one reason to arm yourself.

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>>30786187
>muh paper stats
How about you look at actual gel testing. You'll find that your stats on paper that you argue about amount to a few hundreths of an inch difference in expansion for similar penetration. Beyond that how about you actually do some research on wound ballistics and what it takes to kill someone, protip: a shot to the lung will take a significant amount of time to have an effect on the target and no where other than the heart and major arteries will cause significant enough bleeding to make a difference in a meaningful amount of time.

>>30786921
This right here is why I sold my glock 30s and got a glock 19, penetration is important, 45 auto just doesn't have it. It's just all show but no bite. (.45 super is a different story)

I'm starting to believe .45 only existence now is for marketing and the new shooters buy it cuz they fall for the 45 is a bigger # then 9 and 40 so it has to be better! And then afterwards they get buyers remorse and realise 40 cal and 9mm has what 45 doesn't have. And that's penetration.

>>30787806
>I'm starting to believe .45 only existence now is for marketing
There are 105 years worth of 1911s that aren't going to be rechambered any time soon. .45 ACP and 9x19mm are going to be around forever just because there are so goddamn many guns that eat them.

>>30787696
>twice the capacity
USP 45-> 12+1
USP 40-> 13+1

Must be some of that new math they're teaching kids these days.
I never knew 14 was twice as much as 13

>>30786686
>Like bullet grain.
Grains are a unit of mass you idiot.
So yes, it is directly useful and does not require context.

>>30787835
Are those even the same size frame? The hk45 is a single stack, I know that much.

Take the g19 & g23, the 9 holds 15 the 40 holds 13. Same frame size, not a big difference.

>Not using .40 FMJ for defense

Bruh I got my USP loaded up wif 170 GR Perfecta Imma stop any attacka that dumm enuf to try me

I'm serious though heavier .40 FMJ is underrated as a defense round

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>>30786187

7.62 x 25 is superior to .40 and .45

Tokarev 4 lyfe

>>30786187
Because if you can carry modern JHP's, 9mm is every bit as effective, which is why the FBI is going from .40 back to 9mm.

If you can only carry FMJ for whatever reason, .45 ACP is superior because it is wider and more massive, which means it wounds much more effectively than most other common semiauto handgun rounds when comparing FMJ to FMJ.

Fun fact - the abundance of .40 S&W in law enforcement was largely perpetuated by the FBI and other LE agencies playing 'follow the FBI' combined with handgun manufacturers sales reps pushing hard for .40 S&W in the mid-to-late 90's for the the PD trade in 9mm's that all came with mountains of pre-1994 legal 'hi cap' magazines they could sell for $75-100 each.

They would sell LE's .40 S&W's of the same firearm design at a huge loss (like $200 or $250 per gun with 3 to 5 mags each) just to get their hands on the hi-cap 9mm mags.

>>30787883
5.7x28mm is superior to 7.62x25mm. Waffle nigger needle shooters 4 lyfe.

>>30787876
>what is case capacity
>what is bullet setback
>why are 170+gr loads in .40 S&W the most common of pistol kabooms

But what about the .30 Luger?

>>30787858
The frame size is nearly identical, the USP 45 grip is about 1/10 of an inch longer front to back than the USP 40 and the hk45 is not single stack, it's staggered a little less than most double stack mags to give a slimmer grip.

>>30787896
>Bullet setback is a problem for any round if you repeatedly chamber the same round.
>Case setback? What is this, some autistic way of saying bullet setback?
>mfw you think it's because the round, which has a similar pressure to 9mm, is too hot when in reality it's because most .40 guns are 9mm guns bored out and with heavier springs added, leaving a nice unsupported chamber.

Yeah nah get fucked. I wouldn't even by a 9mm without a fully supported chamber or at least near fully supported.

>>30786187
It turned out that "shoots like 9, hits like .45" was more like "shoots like .45, hits like 9" in reality.

>>30786187
9mm kills about as good as 40 but 40 does one thing better, it penetrates better so it is good for things like shooting through car windows. is that worth the lower capacity and a lot more recoil? that is all subjective

>>30787943
Fully supported chamber is only something you need in high pressure cartridges like 10mm and maybe 40+p.

There are literally millions of 9mms without fully supported chambers that shoot NATO spec 9mm just fine, and that shit is literally 9mm +P+

>>30787966
Get 5.7x28 instead. It shoots through car doors, let alone windows.

>>30787970
and then it frags and yaws and hits with the effectiveness of a limp noodle.

>>30787970
44 Magnum bruh, it cracks engine blocks, goes through multiple car windshields, and guaranteed to penetrate through every member of your neighbor's family.

>>30787969
NATO 9mm isn't +P+, it's just +P

You're only a Google search away from finding all the 9mm KBs you can handle.

>>30787970
nigga get out with your stupid meme cartridge

>>30787984
I already have a 44 magnum. It's my favorite carbine.

>>30788009
No you.

>>30787804
/thread, post quality on /k/ has managed to break through rock bottom and is now burrowing into Earth's crust. I don't know why I even come here anymore.

>>30788021
Get a 4 or 5 inch barrel Smith & Wesson, in all seriousness they're fun as fuck and you can load it with 44 special if you feel like carrying 46 oz of handgun around.

.50 GI best round fite me whenever

>>30788042
I've heard S&W's quality has taken a complete dive recently. Any particular models to avoid?

>>30787251
Sig SP2022 in .40 plus .357 SIG barrel totals out to about $600 and you can shoot two calibers

>>30788055
I got an older one so I can't tell you about new models, I picked up an early 90's 629 at a gun show a few years ago.
The 629s to get are 629-3 to 629-5. The -3 or third revision was the first to have the Endurance Package on all models. The -5 was the last before the internal lock, what's called a Hillary hole, some people have had problems with it locking up their gun. I avoid it personally.
You can tell the "dash" number by opening the cylinder and looking under where the serial number is stamped or dotted.
Shit can happen to anybody but generally if you get a pre internal lock Smith & Wesson it's usually good to go.

>>30786293
>Loses all advantages over 45
It can fit in a 9mm frame. A .45 cannot unless your talking about autistic rounds like the .45 GAP. Regardless, the .45 ACP is BTFO by 10mm in all regards but cost.
>Has no advantage over 9mm
Except it's a bigger, more powerful round, and more resistant to Code Kermit hoarders. I've always been of the opinion that if he doesn't go down the first time, shoot him again, but there's no getting around that the .40 is a more powerful cartridge shot-for-shot, and a lot of people are willing to give up two or three shots for at least the perception of increased power.

>>30788165
But .40 really shouldn't fit in a 9mm frame, as evinced by poor long term durability from 9 -> .40 guns like the Glocks. Meanwhile guns like the USP designed for .40 from the ground up will last significantly longer.

>more powerful round
What does this even mean? If both poke holes in a dude of comparable diameter (which is true given modern hollowpoints) and both penetrate similar depths (ditto) then "more power" means literally nothing. You're right on the money when you say "perception of increased power".

>>30786967
no

>>30788026
>everyone having an opinion on guns & ammo on a gun & ammo based board is ruining the board itself
That's nice.

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>>30787831
What I ment is as shooting wise for self defense, cc and hd. 45 just won't cut it at all and is only used for marketing to new shooters since the majority like I was are noobs and will only go with the bigger number with out reading ballistics.
Because when you think of it like somebody who's new to guns and wants one for defence, .45 auto SOUNDS way better then .40 and 9mm

Now .45 for plinking fun and range time thats a different story I'm talking bout defence wise.

>>30786643
> if barrier penetration is that much of an issue why not go 10mm

Let's be realistic here, your not gonna cc a fullsize 10mm with out wearing super baggy ass clothes like I wear(no I'm not fat) and if your gonna carry a glock 29 or any subcompact 10mm you might as well not carry 10mm at all. A 10mm in a subcompact imho is like a 357 mag in a 1-2 in barrel snubbie, what's the fucking point any more if you lose it's maximum caliber ability.

>>30787113

> if this is what you want, why not take .357 sig?

Price for a box, follow up shots, range time, and special snowflake round. (I don't even owe a .40 cal I'm 9mm)

>>30787969
.40 is a high pressure cartridge

Its the same chamber pressure as 9mm
Ree3eeeeeee

>>30786293
>source: your ass

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>>30788327
When their opinions aren't based on reality yet they continue to repeat them, yes. A year or two ago a good portion of the posts in threads like this would be talking about actual testing like the anon I responded to was.

>>30788428
I said *maybe* 40+P and only because of the glocknades that happened years ago due to severely undersupported 40 chambers.

The only autism here is you not having the reading comprehension to understand the meaning of the word maybe.

Now please, kys.

>>30788404
>45 just won't cut it at all
k.

>>30788205
"Shouldn't Fit" my ass, it was specifically designed for that frame size. That manufacturers early on did a simple rechambering and cracked frames is a non-issue in 2016, which is exemplified by the FBI and state law enforcement using pistols in the caliber for over a decade without issue. Unless you're a professional shooter "long term durability" isn't even on the radar screen, and if you are any gun is going to wear out after thousands upon thousands of rounds. For most normal people or even police basic maintenance will have you pistol last for a decade if not longer.

More muzzle energy, brosef, in all but +P+ loads, which also increase wear. Regardless, if the hollowpoint fails (rare, I know) you still have a more massive bullet going through whatever.

>>30788404
>Why would one want a small gun that's as powerful as a large gun

It really is as he says a deception of "bigger is more power". Just like all you Americans wanting to carry a 45-70 for bear hunting/protection when a .308w is much more suited for the job, especially if there is a little bit of range between you and the target.

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>>30786543
>it's just a meme

Yup, you got it perfectly correct. The .40 is just a meme cartridge that tries to appeal to the oldschool .45 fags. The 9mm fags just ignore both because higher cap and modern round with modern performance.

>>30788768
Unless you're shooting the bear at 200 yards 308 Winchester is not better at stopping dangerous game than 45-70.

Now git.

>>30788638
Sold my glock 30s 45 auto for a reason nigga, and it wasn't because recoil or 10rd capacity

>>30788679

>why would one want a small gun that's as powerful as powerful as a large

I don't think so Tim, I have a 4in 357 magnum it'll fully use the ballistic capabilities of .357 magnum
Compare to snub

Sure a 1-2in .357 snubbie will be more concealable but it's ballistics will take a huge dive.
This applies also to 10mm

You can carry whatever you want but don't lie to yourself and believe there's no difference in ballistics between a sub and fullsize or compact.

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>>30786187
just read the FBI memo on why they decided on 9mm. read about the stopping power myth of pistol caliber cartridges and how they're wounding effects are completely different from and inferior to rifle caliber cartridges

in general, pistols poke holes instead of causing massive trauma secondary to the bullet trajectory like a rifle does. therefore, what is more important is how many holes you can poke and how easily you can poke them - thus, 9mm's higher capacity and lower recoil is a benefit to these points, respectively. also important is where you poke those holes, but we'll get to that later.

now of course, bigger bullet means bigger hole - but bullet technology has gotten to the point where a fully expanded 9mm hollow point is sufficiently large such that the increase in size in 45acp or 40sw does not warrant the loss of capacity and increased recoil.

if it was all about capacity and low recoil, naturally you would want a 22lr - right? back to my earlier point, those holes you poke actually have to be in place that matters - the central nervous system preferably, or a major artery next. in order to ensure a hit to these places, your bullet must have sufficient penetration - this is where a 22lr falls short, and why the fbi set a 12" minimum penetration standard on ballistic gelatin. modern 9mm can adequately hit this target through a range of common mediums, and thus it is at the perfect combo of penetrative capability, minimized recoil, maximized capacity, and expanded diameter.

an added bonus for consumers is that it has a relatively cheap cost per round.

>tldr
9mm is god-tier

>>30788988
You can also look at it like this

>One wound, body only has to clot one area.
>Two wounds, clotting is like fighting a war on two fronts.

The round may be slightly less wide, and were talking 1mm less wide. So if you make one hit with the wider round you have a 10mm hole. If you make two hits with the smaller round you have two 9mm holes, which equals 18mm of hole for the body to have to compensate for. All this is only applicable IF your incompetent ass didn't hit vitals and now you're relying on blood loss as the mechanism of death for the threat. If you have more rounds, you have more chances at hitting vitals, plus less recoil helps. The biggest plus when it comes to higher capacity though is helping in a situation with multiple attackers. Those 2-4 extra rounds could make a life of difference.

>>30787806
>penetration is important, 45 auto just doesn't have it.
>glock 30

Well there's your problem.

I was trying to figure out wtf you were talking about as i know .45 will actually penetrate as much if not more than 9mm in some circumstances and then i saw it.

The only time .45acp under performs is out of a short barrel. 230grs need more time in the pipe to get up to speed but once they do they're just as slow to stop.

If you're restricting yourself to subcompacts you could mitigate this short coming in .45acp by using lighter 165gr or 185gr loads which are fairly common. Or those snowflake crack whore crazy 125gr - 73gr 2000+fps loads.

>>30788798
>modern round with modern performance

What the fuck is that even supposed to mean?

>>30790711
It means somebody's been reading too much marketing material as gospel.

>>30786187
honestly, it doesn't fucking matter what round you pick between the 3. In a regular self defense situation you're not going to be unloading an entire magazine. Most of the time you'll only have to draw your weapon. If you do have to fire it will likely only be once or twice. Getting shot with a 9mm twice versus getting shot with a .45 twice is still going to yield the same result. The attacker will either be dead or no longer combat effective. What matters more than the round is the gun itself and your proficiency with that weapon. A shitty gun makes the best bullet in the world useless. Being totally incompetent with the firearm also makes you considerably less effective.

In short, the only thing that matters is that you pick a firearm that suits your needs and capabilities and that you train with it.

>>30786187

Because superior 357 sig exists and doesn't snap your wrist like 40. Even 45+P allows for better follow up shots than 40 short and weak. Those two caliber just make it obsolete. If the FBI didn't puss out it wouldn't even exist.

>>30790788
Taking this argument to the ultimate extreme, is a .22 round worse/better than a .50 BMG? No, they both have their applications, but a well trained sniper would be deadlier with a .22 than a down syndrome toddler would be with a .50 BMG. Accuracy/Proficiency > everything else

My carry pieces are a .40 and a 9mm and every once in awhile I'll OC my .45, honestly it's stupid thing to argue about. Jamal isn't going to care how many or how big the holes in him are, either way he's gonna die.

>>30786187
All the things mentioned, but when the FBI both asked for it and then dropped it a barrel of kerosene rolled onto the burning pile of meme turds. It's a good round and the recoil is barely more than a 9mm. Some people just love splitting hairs and have nothing better to think about.

>>30786293
>You sacrifice the capacity of the 9, lose the perceived oomph of the .45
Except it'll push the 180 and 200gr bullets which are popular weights for 45 at similar speeds with better SD and capacity
>gain snappier recoil
Which is up to the user considering guys still carry revolvers and .357auto
>and increased wear.
Which will only be noticed by competition shooters and shoe horn guns while being a completely moot point for the majority of shooters

>>30786643
>why not go 10mm?
You mean the even longer, more expensive cartridge with more recoil and fewer guns chambered in it?

>The difference is negligible and not worth the downsides of using a higher pressure cartrige.
You mean the identical pressures of 9x19 and .40 or are you comparing them to the low pressure of .45? Ffs you're using the internet right now.

>>30786187
>You get nearly the same muzzle energy as a 45.
guess what: .45acp is a shit cartridge.

don't ever use .45acp unless you prefer an underpowered, low capacity, firearm.

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>>30786604
>>muzzle energy
>>relevent
>kek
it is relevant you fucking moron otherwise there would be no point to using rifles and everyone would just shoot BB guns at each other since "projectile energy doesn't matter"

>>30786978
>40sw has a larger relative powder load and chamber pressure than .45ACP
Powder load fuck no, chamber pressure yes. Ballistically with standard pressure ammo 40 and 45 can run neck and neck given similar projectile weight, but one of those is pushing on a smaller surface area resulting in higher pressure. You can take two identical loads, load one deeper into the cartridge creating a pressure spike and you will feel the difference in recoil provided it doesn't blow.

Also with 40/45 it's snap vs shove. Pretend the 5.7 vs 5.56 thing never happened

>so there's a higher delta-v that's exerting force on the gun, one of the reasons .40sw pistols were known to "beat themselves to death"
9mm guns with a 40 barrel and breech thrown in beat themselves to death, which is a bit of a retarded term to begin with if you think about it.

>>30787113
Because.40 is cheaper, easier to find guns in and has 135gr ammo of you want .357auto speeds.

Oddly enough 180gr .357auto exists for some reason

>>30793749
Energy is only relevant insofar as it gives a round wounding potential. If you shoot two rounds with different muzzle energies and find identical expansion and identical penetration, then what about the higher energy helped?

Did I miss a post or has nobody mentioned the fact that barrel length changes the game.
.40 is superior to both .45 and 9mm in a subcompact.

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>>30788404
>.45 just won't cut it at all
>for self defense

Alvin York killed 6 German soldiers with his 1911 in one engagement and you and I both know he wasn't using any fancy hollow point self defense rounds. Straight World War One era old military fmj.

There are literally a million men dead from being shot with .45 acp over the last 100 years.

What in the actual fuck are you on about?

>>30788165

This guy >>30788205 is right.

It has "more powah" but it's not enough to make any meaningful difference.

When using hollowpoints, bullet expansion and the size of the hole is more dependent on the ammunition and what the bullet hits, rather than .38cal vs .40cal diameter

That extra energy that you perceive to make a difference is just meme magic.
All automatic handgun rounds are underpowered

>>30788404
>cc and hd. 45 just won't cut it at all

You're a moron. The memes have entered your frontal lobe