J-20 Serial Production

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>>30486672
More of this Low Rate Initial Production Serial plane

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>>30486674

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>>30486679
But it was more or less expected that the J-20 will start serial production, or at least LRIP soon. Beginning this year, the J-20's first LRIP-prototype took off to it's maiden flight.

>low visibility roundels

Wow clearly China is catching up to the west. USA is finished.

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>>30486690
J-20's roundels before, on one of the prototypes:

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>>30486709

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In another news, the J-31 2.0 seems to have spotted on a trailer car.

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>>30486717

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>>30486722
It was long rumored anyway, that the improved J-31 would appear this year.

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>>30486726
The J-31 2.0 has modified tailfins, an EOTS system and improved avionics, as well as a new engine which does away with the smoke-stack of the RD-93 that powered the first J-31 before.

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>>30486737
Compared to the J-31 1.0

File: J-31 final CG.jpg (184KB, 1100x647px) Image search: [Google]

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>>30486743
It is unknown though, if the PLAAF has voiced their interest in the adoption of the J-31.

As it is now, the J-31, eve in its final iteration, is export only.

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>>30486722
Below; J-31 1.0 transported with the same trailer in 2012.

Who.
Fucking.
Cares?

>>30488333
Why did you press on this thread in the first place? Are you fullblown retarded?

>>30488813
The irony of your post in palpable.

>>30486672
Delivery of LRIP airframes is not the same as IOC.

Unless you think the F-35's IOC was in 2007.

>>30486751
The FC-31 is an export plane, the PLAAF has no interest in it over J-20's.

>>30486760
Why bother with a camuflage if you just gonna pack it so tight that you can see what it is from the outline alone?

>>30486751
Who's the potential buyer?

>>30489123
Only countries I can think of are South American countries or the few Asian countries that don't have good relations with the US and Russia.

>>30489123
Anyone with money (and is on friendship term with China, which is a bit looser than american concept of "allies")

So far, the only countries that could buy/operate this kind of aircraft are Pakistan, Egypt and Venezuela. Pakistan is doing their own "stealth" version of JF-17 while egypt would be in whole world of hurt (from US and Israel) if they get this shit before Israel got their F-35 (because status quo), so the first operator would be venezuela

>>30488333
ex-USAF here. I do. It is fascinating. I am curious if they will attempt to integrate F-22 or F-35 style stealth reduction to their engine nozzles. Also with the improved avionics, we finally have a reason to push forward on sensor and stealth technology again. That means miniaturization of components, improved optics across hyper spectral, the whole works. It means that technology will make a big leap forward again.

The biggest thing is this, at least in the real of my interest. China is making leaps and bounds with their engine tech, they will continue to have stumbling points, but I think they are going to get to a point where they surpass Russian engines, and sit in a comfy place just behind euro engines, because European nations cant into export or technology control.

This means they will be flying longer, higher, and faster. It means we have to again push the engines and it makes me hope for more research into the SABRE style engines. The existing envelope is about as pushed as it can get, the only way to progress forward is to expand what it is an engine can do, and what it is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SABRE_(rocket_engine)

That means a higher chance to SSTO and improved space access, which is good for the commercial industry.

>>30489169
Nigeria?

>>30489169
>Venezuela

They can't even afford toilet paper much less 5th gen planes.

>>30489175
They don't even have a proper 4th gen fighter aircraft. The fact that they bought fresh F-7 (Mig-21 copy) means that they're happy with maintaining/retaining their current air capability, considering that it is a like-for-like replacement for their older Mig-21

>>30489171
You've grossly overestimated China's engine capabilities.

>>30489186
You're under the impression that oil price will stay low.

Well it is not. It already jumped to 50 bucks (compared to 30 at the end of 2015) and would touch 60 bucks before the end of the year.

Even if they didn't have hard cash to pay for the aircraft, they could always give the contract to chinese companies for fresh offshore oil blocks in exchange for military equipment

>>30489171
I think you're a little misinformed.

ADVENT is probably the next stepping stone, not anything rocket based.

>>30489242
And when oil prices go backup, fracking operations go back up. Traditional oil-producing countries are in a no-win position.

>>30489242
Except Venezuela has pretty poor quality oil. Ironically one of the few countries with the capability and willingness to refine it into something useable is the US.

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>>30489094
Stupid chinks can't reason like that.

pic related, it's how Americans do it. That's an A-12, immediate predecessor to the SR-71. You'd never be able to guess it's shape because they encased the entire thing in a giant wooden box.

Looks like China will assure air-dominance over Taiwan and Japan soon.

The F-35 cant compare to the J-20 and the F-3 is only ready by 2030+ at the fastest.

>>30489338
Not for long

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-economy-idUSKCN0Y71VB

Also, China also has refinery that would refine venezuela's shit crude oil

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7898809.stm

>>30489434
Go step on a landmine you shitposting nigger.

>>30489434
China already has air-dominance over Taiwan and air-superiority over Japan.

Taiwan's airforce is extremely vulnerable to China's SAM and tactical missiles, even if they werent so outnumbered and outgunned already, and Japan's airforce is largely obsolete.

>>30489436
What's the point actually? high quality crude, low quality crude, in the end it will become gasoline for our cars in the street

>>30489516
Not quite. Low quality crude oil has higher sulphur content (and other effluent) than high quality crude, which means it would take more comprehensive refining process (and even then it wouldn't completely remove sulphur content), lowering the price

Also, low quality oil is used for gasoline, diesel and bitumen (primary component in asphalt road), while high quality oil is used for jet fuel. A barrel of jet fuel is about 10x more valuable than diesel

>>30489171

Oh God, SABRE....

> chinks finally into modern jet engine design
> "Ro, ro, ro, American pigdogs! We have-a modern jet engrine just-a rike you!"
> a rumble is heard as a SABRE-equipped aerospace superiority fighter climbs to low earth orbit directly over Beijing
> *suicide in Mandarin*

>>30489558
Jet-A - $4.25 /gal
Diesel - $2.17 /gal

>>30489436
>thinking it's only the price of oil that put Venezuela's economy in the shitter.

I mean it sure didn't help, but things aren't gong to magically normalize for them once oil prices rise

>>30489735
Economic condition doesn't necessarily equates to military spending tho. Sweden and France have slashed their spending on military assets (and divesting their national military companies) despite sound macroeconomic condition, while Greece continued to spend heavily on military assets even though their economy went to shit

>>30489169
>stealth JF-17

for what purpose

>>30486672
Awesome

>>30488997
Where was this stated otherwise?

>>30489934
Memes, anon. Memes and BTFO-posting

>>30489242
As some one who has a few family members in the oil industry you are wrong. For prices to get to upper 80s to low 90s and keep there it will take about 4 1/2 years. In Venezuela it costs about $ 27.62 to make a barrel as of right now. However the infrastructure to support that product has not had needed upkeep in years, which is part of that cost. They need to start reinvesting in that infrastructure inside that next 3 years or things will start going badly (think industrial accidents ). The real product cost for the next several years for Venezuela oil is going to be in the range of 42 to 51 USD per barrel.

TLDR: Its going to be a long time before Venezuela makes mad money from oil.

>>30489226
You grossly underestimate them.

>>30486672

Do we know what this thing is armed with yet?

How many missiles/bombs can it hold internally?

Does it have a gun?

File: J-15 vs. J-15T landing gear comparison.jpg (45KB, 616x375px) Image search: [Google]

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:DDDDD

>>30489341
Or maybe it has something to do with the J-31 already fucking flying at airshows and photographed to death?

Why would they care? It's the same plane as version 1.0 with minor adjustments to the engine compartment.

>>30489934
Unironically better than anything India has in their airforce. (Except the Mig-30 but that's Navy I believe).

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>>30490660
A prototype was photographed and filmed carrying a PL-10 SRAAM.

And gun is likely included as well.

>>30490666
What's this?

J-15 gear modified for catapult launch?

>>30490712
Isn't it a little smaller than the F-22?

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>>30490692
>MiG-30
>>30490660
Yes, pic related.

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>>30490712
The plane itself is undoubtly larger than the F-22, just one meter short of the Flanker.

Bay-wise, it was photographed with two BVRAAM dummies, but the bay seems to be plenty deep and the clearance between missiles more than realistically needed, so there might be more per side.

>>30489486
>F-15 and larger F-16's with AESA radars
>obsolete

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>>30490883
F-15Js are obsolete, no matter how you look at them. Even their improved variants are only F-15C level.

F-2s are kinda goodish, but they are specialized for anti-shipping missions.

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Why is there no serial number for this one?

Did the PLAAF forsake their old tradition of giving ass-long serial numbers for each plane?

>>30489123
No one currently, unless China can get one of it's African colonies to buy some it's a dodo.

>>30490592
>That's 2 years ahead of schedule; before the J-20's date of IOC was said to be 2018.

Its chingrish, but it implies that the IOC is now; 2 years ahead of schedule, 2016.

>>30486672

So is it fair to say that China finally has a plane in production that could beat the F-22 in a one vs one? The J-20 seems more advanced than the Raptor.

File: J-20 sensor arrays.jpg (606KB, 2200x1346px) Image search: [Google]

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>>30491241
Without TVC engines, it will be at a disadvantage vs the F-22, but even now with all them sensors and electronics, the J-20 would hold their own.

I wonder how large the PLAAF wants the fleet to be.

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>>30491326

I thought the general consensus was that TVC was a largely useless gimmick, only good for airshows, hence why it doesn't appear in the F-35? I mean, it certainly looks nice but is it really an advantage?

>>30491326
Considering a good chunk of China's aircraft are still Mig-21 clones, they have their work cut out for them if they want to become truly modern in the same way the USAF and Navy are, we still have some pretty old planes but we're in the process of upgrading them to be practically next gen themselves.

>>30491326

Damn china how many radars does one plane need?

>>30491824
The entire surface area of US 5th gen fighters is one enormous sensor system, so this looks to be going in that direction.

>>30491326
The amount of stuff blatantly stolen from the F-35 and F-22 is mindboggling.

To the point it's becoming hard to not believe LM let the chinks steal that stuff on purpose.

>>30492145

We live in the age of internet where they can just pull up Google and find hundreds of f22/f35 pictures from every conceivable angle in ultra high resolution.

>>30492145
Its mindboggling you actually believe in Chinese products

They're basically the masters of making things appear good. Anyone who works in an industry that deals with the Chinese will know this.

>>30492259
This right here. Making something look right vs actually being what you want is a huger difference in china.

I am curious as to how extensively the PLAAF is actually testing the J-20 before serial production.

>>30492259
Having worked in the PC industry for 10 years, and attended various factory tours, I can second this.

Nothing will prove this creature's worth but a good fight.

>>30489904
Yes, because in the midst of food riots they're going to start buying brand new fighters

>>30486717
>>30486722
Who cares about the J-31, its literally bait. Only retard nigger nations will buy it.

>>30492641
>The US will secretly but one...
Kek

>>30490909
Name a plane that could go toe to toe with them.

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>>30493040
With the F-15J?

Should be all J-11 variants outside the basic J-11. So, J-11A, B, D etc, as well as the J-10 series.

The difference are the missiles. The basic F-15J can only fire the AIM-7 sparrow, while all of those Chinese planes can fire active radar guided PL-12.

Of course, the F-15J(kai) is much improved that it can fire the new and very capable AAM-4B, but their numbers are merely a fraction of the F-15J fleet.

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>>30493251
The problem with saying that China has air dominance over Korea and Japan is that if you assume that China would attack either countries, you also have to assume that the US would protect both countries.

Honestly, Japan is one of the USA's closest allies, it would be ridiculous to say that they would not be protected.

Neat planes, though

>>30492685

probably go like

"Hey Pakistan buy some J-31's from China, we'll pay you a billion for one"

>>30493251

If the shooting does start, the bigger threat is probably SK's fleet of F-15K and Block 40 F-16C's.

File: F-15J vs F-15K vs J-11B.jpg (68KB, 502x681px) Image search: [Google]

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>>30493321
Yes, South Korea's Eagles are the best in Asia.

>>30492259
>They're basically the masters of making things appear good.

You talking about the American automobile industry right?

>China starts J-11 serial production
>Buys 4 Su-35

Why? They don't have anything to copy from the Su-35, the L-Band IFF?

>>30494522
Probably more models to research on engines.
Also what's the point of putting J-31 up for export if nobody is going to buy it?
It's only purpose is a research product at this point.

>>30486672
IOC requires more than just airframes. It also depends on how many airframes are deemed necessary for IOC.

>>30490794
Little larger in length, but it's fuselage itself is way longer / has way more volume and weight.

>>30491824
Array =/= (active) radar.

>>30490909
Out of the 200+ F-15J in JASDF service, about 50 of them has aesa radar

>>30490712
>China can copy/steal s ducts
>Russia can't

Why not?

>>30494615
Not everyone is best budds with the USA, nor can afford the F-35. I bet a lot of countries would like a cheap 5th gen fighter.
>>30496448
Radar blockers.

>>30496448
>Russia can't
They copied the superior YF-23

>>30496721
Especially in the Middle East.

>>30496721
Radar blockers aren't really a solution to that problem unless you're okay with 4.5gen tier RCS. Which is what the PAK-FA achieves.

>>30493040
2 JASDF F-15J got raped in mock dogfight over ECS recently by a pair of PLAAF SU-30MKKs.

The Japanese eagle drivers ended up having to dump flares to disengage. (Confirmed by Japanese and Chinese MOD)

Japanese article
http://jbpress.ismedia.jp/articles/-/47196

Chinese article
http://www.mod.gov.cn/topnews/2016-07/04/content_4687231.htm

>>30497290
Sukhoi
Wins
Again

>>30497290
>>30497336
Digging around a bit more, the planes involved are:
JASDF F-15CJ from 204 TFS, 9th Air Wing based in Naha, Okinawa.

PLAAF MK-30MKK from 9th Regiment, 3rd Air Division based in Shanghai.

Both units can be considered crème de la crème of the two air forces.

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>>30497290
Looks like all that aggressor training has paid itself.

>>30497290
>tfw these mock dogfights happen nearly every day over the ECS
>tfw this is the first time they reported it

They should have a livestream going on 24/7.

>>30497393
>dedicated air-superiority fighter loses against a fighter-bomber

HOW

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>>30497822

It's almost like pilot skill is a factor or something.

>>30486737
God they really did a good job copying the Raptor's shape up front.

>>30497819
This instance it was a bit more serious. Posting from phone so this is gonna be a bit messy:

Japanese article claim that the F-15s began the encouter by trying to move into the Sukhoi's six to fire a "tracer warning"
>スクランブルをかけた空自機は中国機の周囲を大きく回り込み、後方から真横につけるポジショニングを試みた。中国機パイロットの顔が見える位置から信号射撃などを行い、退去を呼びかけるためだ。

In the Chinese MOD release, the situation was claimed as Japanese F-15 moved in and tried to lock onto the MKKs.

>日两架F—15战机高速逼近挑衅,甚至开启火控雷达对我照射.

Then the dogfight began and the end result was confirmed by both side.

>空自機は不測の事態を避けるため同空域からの離脱を図ったが、中国機はこれを追尾。空自機は敵機のレーダー誘導ミサイ ルなどを撹(かく)乱(らん)する装置を噴射しながら危機を脱した。

>日机投放红外干扰弹后逃逸

Su-30s turned and ended up on F-15s' six. Both F-15Js dumped flares to disengage.

>>30497888
Thanks for the translation.

>>30497888
>fire a "tracer warning?
Are the japs fucking retarded?

>Su-30s turned and ended up on F-15s' six.
Those pilots need to commit sepukku out of shame of being outflown by chinamen

So the japs just demonstrated that they were both reckless and incompetent. Instead of showing strength, they showed weakness. The idiots just embolded more chinese aggression. They were lucky the chinese didnt just use the excuse to kill them.

>>30497929
>>fire a "tracer warning?
>Are the japs fucking retarded?

This is actually an official policy, ever since that one Chinese coast guard plane overflying the Senkaku islands.
It was authorized from the highest command, it seems.

File: sino-thai gripen vs J-11.jpg (229KB, 901x850px) Image search: [Google]

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>>30497929
There's no shame in losing against Chinese pilots. They are getting better with all those joint excercises they have with the airforces in asia that had regular exposure to western training. Pic related.

>>30497996
Well no wonder the chinks are so aggressive. They finally got their shit together and now want to play. Well so much for peaceful rise. Luckily the US is still around to save the day, or the chinese will swallow all the shitty little banana states around them. Maybe they need to either stop pissing China off, or start making contributions to the US defense budget.

>>30497096
The thing is, you can't actually know how good radar blockers are or what T-50s RCS is.
>>30497822
That would be strike fighter, not fighter-bomber.

>>30497996
The best pilots in the region are widely acknowledged to be Malaysian MiG-29 (now Su-30MKM) pilots

>>30489434
lol if you think China can dominate anything but the slave labor for the west market.

Get back to making my cheap electronics.

>>30498535
>The thing is, you can't actually know how good radar blockers are or what T-50s RCS is.

Sure you can. They're inherently imperfect.

Even slavaboos (including Kopp) and the Russians themselves say it isn't very stealthy.

>>30498776
I've never heard or read Sukhoi claim something like that. What we have is guesses and speculations. I'm afraid we'll have to wait for at least a good exercise to learn the truth.

>>30499195
IIRC having a Super Hornet RCS goal was in the patents

>>30499195
http://web.archive.org/web/20140201202828/http://www.janes.com/article/32190/pak-fa-stealth-features-patent-published

>Details of the Sukhoi Design Bureau's work on the stealthy aspects of the T-50 PAK FA fighter aircraft emerged in late December 2013, when the company's patents were published.

>According to the patent paperwork, taken together, all of the stealthy measures offer significant improvements over legacy fighter designs. The papers claim that the radar cross-section (RCS) of an Su-27 was in the order of 10-15 m 2 , with the intention being to reduce the size of the RCS in the T-50 to an "average figure of 0.1-1 m 2 ".

>>30498691
>>30492259
>>30492415

What is with the inferior complex coming out of amerifats?

Seriously, Chinese weapons are nothing sneeze about. Just consider that the Iranian clone of a Chinese Ashm from the 80s managed to mission kill Israel's most important ship

http://defense-update.com/2006/07/ins-hanit-suffers-iranian-missile.html

>>30488333
>bumps from page 10 5 hours later

You do.

>>30501218
Great, chinkaboo.

>>30491665
Oh there's clear advantages to TVC. It's questionable if 3D thrust vectoring is worth it. The problem has since become that the primary use of TVC, nose pointing, has become less important in aircraft design with the proliferation and advancement of anti-air munitions. We're now at the point where you actually can let the missile do the turning for you.

>>30501218
You do know that it's not that hard to kill ships. You basically just don't hear about it because ships almost never shoot at each other.

>>30501276

Is there any chance that the F-35 will get TVC when they get new engines in the future?

>>30501364
I can't imagine it will. TVC adds weight and cost for little kinematic improvement.

>>30490932
It's probably on the other side.

And how is 2017 or 2016 a long serial number?

>>30491146
The IOC is assumed by independent analysts to be late this year.

No where has the OP stated "hurdurr LRIP = IOC".

>>30491749
J-7's form 20% of China's airforce and mostly are used for aggressor training or ASEAN/Central Asia.

They have 600 4th gens and 100 4.5 gens.
Not to mention a ton of 3rd gens meant for Taiwan/NK/India.

>>30492259
Oh that's why half the world's advanced electronics by GDP are produced in China?

Surely all these private foreign companies are getting screwed for 40 years now.

>>30492316
They have extensively tested them. They've already built 8-9 and us on /k/ have consistently seen it tested and modified as they learn more.

>>30492415
Oh so the F-35 is completely unproven?

>>30493040
Most of China's frontline air superiority fighters. About 400 of them in total. J-11D and J-10B's.

>>30493293
That's not the issue discussed here. We were leaving America out because it is pointless to discuss.

>>30493321
That's if China goes full retard and attacks SK for no good reason.

The F-15K is better than the J, mainly because of modernity.

>>30494522
Engines.

>>30494615
J-31 is the threat to Chengdu that China's government has a backup plan.
Competition essentially.

>>30494665
Okay? OP isn't saying that. He is saying that IOC is now scheduled for late 2016.

>>30496448
Money.

>>30497822
Not a fighter-bomber.

>>30497929
The Japanese are being aggressive because the Chinese are being aggressive as well.

But yes, seppuku is required.

>>30498002
That's a lot of planes.

>>30498114
Peaceful rise ended in 2015.

>>30498691
>cheap

They make half the world's high tech electronics.

>>30501272
Okay?

>>30501364
No. It is useful for the J-20 though.

>>30497888
Oh, man. It looks like the nips are mad as fuck

http://cgi.2chan.net/f/res/1177506.htm

>>30502251
>triggered Chinaman was triggered

Chinese GDP is driven by wage slave cheap prices, not quality.

>>30502251
>Surely all these private foreign companies are getting screwed for 40 years now.

No, they're screwing customers.

>>30497819
>you will never enact your /int/ banter out over the east china sea in a multi million dollar war machine

WHY
EVEN
LIVE
JESUS

>>30497996

The accidential missile launch and sinking of a Taiwanese trawler by one of Taiwan's own missile-boats should have told you as much: The Taiwanese themselves reported that they have immediately detected different radar signals from the Mainland coast, as soon as that missile was accidentially launched, and returned to normal five seconds after the trawler was hit, indicating that the PLA had an idea about what happened.

Seriously, after all the shit that Japan and the US gave given the Chinese around their Eastern Shores in the past 15 years, one would be surprised if they didnt have a very high readiness force there with good training.

>>30502392
Nice source you got there.

>>30502545
Okay?

>>30503667
They are the best trained forces.

Of course on /k/, all you hear about are the fuckers in Sichuan armed with 1950 AK's.

>>30503833
Trained or not China is playing a dangerous game over a shitty island for nothing. It's a repeat of Wilhelm II's meme faggotry over a German place in the sun. We could be looking at the next great continental war fought in Asia.

>>30503833
>Nice source you got there.

kek, okay.

>>30502106
>The IOC is assumed by independent analysts to be late this year.

>less than 5 months from delivery of first airframe to IOC

SHAM
H
A
M

>>30503833
>Ignore that I never provided sources either

>>30499300
The only thing left is to post ASH RCS. Oh wait. None was published.
>>30499420
They also said its RCS is equivalent to that estimated of F-22.

>>30503856
China can play their game as long as they want as long as they don't pick a war with America.

>>30503861
Not an argument.

>>30503930
What? You assume all planes face the F-35's problems?

>>30504406
I never claimed I did.

>>30504989
The only ones who've said that are dumbasses who say that the F-22 has an RCS of 0.1m^2 or larger (when it's a few orders of magnitude smaller).

>>30505503
>dumbasses
Sorry anon, I believe estimations made by engineers more than random no-names on 4chan and retarded press-releases with designated metal gold ball units that they use as their source.
>it's a few orders of magnitude smaller
Cool story.

>>30503856
except there would be no ground war. If China starts a war their economy collapses and there is a naval blockade that would cause an internal revolution.

The middle and upper class would flee the country taking what wealth they can carry leading up to any real hostilities, and ones it starts they would pour across the border into india/Vietnam/Russia etc.

>>30486672
I don't buy that their prototypes were so successful for a country that really never produced a truly original fighter. Smells very fishy to me. The US and Russia (you know, countries that have well established aerospace industries) have had to overcome various issues in their fifth generation prototype fighters.

>>30506863
Russia still hasn't overcome the problems to create a true 5th gen.

>>30506912
Russia will have a real 5th gen fighter by next year and all the technology they need is ready for it.

I'm doubtful the PLAAF is even receiving a finished product even when you exclude the the Russian designed engines.

>>30506950
The T-50 isn't 5th gen, but sure.

>>30506954
>this retarded meme again

>>30506990
There's a reason no one is buying it

>>30507008
You can use the same logic for Canada and the F-35

>>30507033
Not really, lots of people are buying the F-35, and ordering more.

Canada will probably order the f-35 again, it really is the best multi-role you can buy.

Literally no one is buying the T-50, despite being offered at 1/3rd the initial price.

>>30507078
Incorrect, practically all the countries the purchased the F-35 have subcontractors or contractors that are helping to build the F-35 so those countries don't have a choice unless if they want to damage their own economy like Canada is doing.

Canada isn't ruling out the F-35 but they're probably going to go with the Super Hornet because that has two engines and it is a proven system unlike the F-35.

India has been very indecisive on all its fighter purchases as of late. Go take a look at the IAF Rafale purchase. And India is the only one that the PAK-FA has been offered to as of yet.

>>30507145
lol they have offered the pak-fa to literally everyone except China.

>>30507180
Hate to burst your bubble but you are incorrect again, only India. South Korea tried to get the PAK-FA into their fighter competition but Russia didn't submit a tender.

>>30507210
Russia begged Brazil to help and they tried to sell it to everyone at last years singapore airshow and it got shit on.

http://www.janes.com/article/58166/singapore-airshow-2016-analysis-pak-fa-s-asian-export-hopes-stymied-by-lack-of-fifth-generation-qualities

>>30507240
That's Janes nigger. They haven't been a good publication for a few years now.

F-15K is based on F-15E, while F-15J is based on F-15A, which is about 30 years apart.

On the up side, Japan can always produce its own equipment indigenously while South Korea have to rely on cannibalization for even the simplest parts

>>30507145
>Canada isn't ruling out the F-35 but they're probably going to go with the Super Hornet because that has two engines and it is a proven system unlike the F-35.

Cuck logic. Believe people like Trudeau and David Axe over Canada's fucking Defense Department.

File: 1420086156261.jpg (3KB, 126x111px) Image search: [Google]

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>>30507260
>They haven't been a good publication for a few years now.

damage control off the charts

>>30497290
Japs literally hid their power levels so the chinese won't see their final form. It's like how every body knows America can rip apart any army but they don't really show it and therefore don't get all the stupid competitions that litter the garbage can.

>>30507509
After that article where they said T-50 uses the same engine and radar as Su-35S they are nothing but yellow press.

>>30507809
>I-it's not their fault they report complete bullcrap...
Literal yellow press.

>>30507723
The T-50 and Su-35 currently use Saturn 117 engines and the PAK FA's radar was developed from the Irbis.

You are simply asshurt they called the PAK FA what it was during the Singapore airshow.

>>30507820
>it's yellow press if it is true but hurts my feels

>>30486672
Oh shit. Looks like chink fighters will be coming online closer to the F-35 than initially anticipated.

>>30507834
>117S and 117 is the same engine
>Irbis and Belka is the same radar
American tier imbecility.
>>30507839
No, it's yellow press if it reports bullshit. Which is what they did.

>>30505401
>>30505401

>>30505401
I assume it will take longer than 5 months to train ground crew, non instructor pilots en mass, along with stress testing the final airframe....which is logical.

Of course, if you believe the chinese, when it comes to the J-20 EVERY DAY IS SUNNY BEACH DAY! NO PROBLEMS!

>>30507723
Oh, you mean the Malaysian export convention where the literature said exactly that?

>>30507878
Shhh, it is yellow journalism for Janes to report what the manufacturer says.

>>30507854
>117S and 117 is the same engine

The only noteworthy difference is the aircraft they are mounted in.

>>30507898
Nah, it's yellow journalism if it reports bullshit. Which is what they did.
>what the manufacturer says
Where did manufacturer say T-50 uses Irbis, imbecile? Or that Su-35S uses Belka.
>>30507900
Must be the reason they have different thrust. American imbeciles are on the loose today. Too much moonshine for you on the 4th July?

>>30507958
You're really trying too hard.

>>30507958
At the Malaysian export convention.

>>30507971
American imbecile, show me a single occasion when the manufacturer said T-50 uses Irbis or Su-35S uses Belka.

>>30508010
http://www.janes.com/article/58166/singapore-airshow-2016-analysis-pak-fa-s-asian-export-hopes-stymied-by-lack-of-fifth-generation-qualities

>>30508017
>janes
Yes, American imbecile, like I said I see yellow press reporting bullshit. Show me a single occasion when the manufacturer said T-50 uses Irbis or Su-35S uses Belka.

>>30508010
PROOFS)))))

>>30508026
http://www.janes.com/article/58166/singapore-airshow-2016-analysis-pak-fa-s-asian-export-hopes-stymied-by-lack-of-fifth-generation-qualities

If you are wondering, yes, janes is a source unto itself. It does not just make stuff up.

>>30508031
>when the manufacturer said
>janes is a source unto itself
This American imbecile is broken. Bring the new one.

>>30508042
If janes reported that sukhoi offered the Malaysians a T-50 with regional common engine and radar, than thats what they did.

Its not even anything new

>>30508042
Janes IS a source unto itself. Everyone uses.

>>30508045
No, American imbecile, that's not how it works. If Jane's reported T-50 uses Irbis, Jane's is yellow press that posts bullshit. Because T-50 does not use Irbis. Go take another shot of moonshine, founding fathers approve.

>>30508042
AESA for T-50: trials are success

Could you compare the AESA with the Tikhomirov-NIIP Bars and Irbis phased array radars equipping the Su-30 and Su-35 fighters?

To date, we have been flight-testing the AESA in the operating modes that had been implemented in our previous radars, and it has proved to be as good as they are in terms of performance and far more reliable than its predecessors were at the same development stage. However, the AESA has got many operating modes inapplicable to the traditional phased array. They will afford the aircraft as a combat system drastically advanced capabilities. They will be tested in due time. At the same time, our Irbis radar may well be regarded as a kind of summit in the evolution of traditional phased arrays: it is second to none in the world as far as its potential and aerial target acquisition range (over 400 km) are concerned. Recently, we have prepared materials to show how the AESA's capabilities can be increased close enough to those of the Irbis. Now, the ball is in the customer's court, since this necessitates new technologies, new materials and new electronic componentry. Industry is to learn to make them first, and its doing so means rather considerable costs - both money and time. However, this must be done, even more so in line with the current import substitution policy.

Tikhomirov-NIIP Director General Yuri Bely

>>30508053
Only a manufacturer is a source unto itself. Jane's is yellow press since it reports bullshit.

>>30508065
Source is
http://en.take-off.ru/news/108-nov2012/974-aesa-for-t-50-trials-are-success

Of forgivings if source of Russian origin. They lie very much unlike of never wrong Jane's.

t. russian shill

>>30508061
That it how it works.

If janes reports something, its because thats what the manufacturer told them at a specific event, either verbally or though lit, and it is that simple.

Janes did not get where it is by flying by the seat of its pants.

Also, look up the definition of yellow journalism. Its starting to irk me when you misuse it over and over again.

>>30508065
Well? Where does this text says or even implies T-50 uses Irbis or Su-35S uses Belka? Oh right, it does not.

>>30508086
>If janes reports something
It's not "something". It's bullshit. Which is why Jane's may very well be considered yellow press by now.

>>30508088
Try reading the source you vatnik fuck

>>30508099
Again, you insist upon your ignorance on the term "yellow press/journalism".

And, again, if janes reports something its because thats what the manufacturer tells them. End of story. No subtext, no agenda, thats it.

Janes has NOTHING to gain otherwise.

>>30508126
I will as soon as you will provide one.
>>30508128
Too bad for them this time they reported bullshit.

>>30508148
>>30508148
If they reported bullshit then thats what the manufacturer fed them. It would not be the first time this happened, shit was rife in the cold war.

He did provide a source btw, read the thread.

>>30508065
>Recently, we have prepared materials to show how the AESA's capabilities can be increased close enough to those of the Irbis. - Manufacturer

Iie director sama, the AESA is the Irbis!
And then the radar becomes the Irbis.

>>30508161
Too bad manufacturer never said that T-50 uses Irbis or Su-35S uses Belka. Since they factually do not. Meaning that Jane's reported bullshit.
>He did provide a source
Jane's is not a source and the quote from the manufacturer never mentions T-50 using Irbis or Su-35S using Belka.

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>>30508164
So that's what he meant! Irbis is AESA and Jane's uncovered Russian disinformation.

>>30508166
>Too bad manufacturer never said that

If janes ran it, thats what the manufacturer told them.

>Jane's is not a source

Janes is a source anon. Its why their subscription plan runs about 500 dollers a year, because companys the world around uses it as such. They have decades upon decades of experience, they are at every single expo, big and small, and regularly gets closed door meetings with manufacturers.

Simply put, there is no better defense related source, anywhere.

>>30508186
>If janes ran it, thats what the manufacturer told them.
Since the manufacturer never said that, this is not the case.
>there is no better defense related source, anywhere
What is this, argumentum ad verecundiam? The manufacturer is easily the best source of information.

>>30489316
You do realize that fracking will always have at least twice the operational cost of normal oil extraction, right?

>>30497925
Look, is you don't include a translation, 99% of /k/ users won't understand a single character.

>>30508213
>Since the manufacturer never said that

Being that janes ran with it, they very much did.

>appeal to authority

Works both ways in this argument being that me or you have no real way to independently verify, its a non starter.

>The manufacturer is easily the best source of information.

In defense related cases, manufacturers routinely mis/disinform, if they inform at all.

This >>30508226 is meant to reply to this >>30502318

>>30508086
>If janes reports something, its because thats what the manufacturer told them
And yet Jane did not say that the manufacturer told them.

>>30508232
Since the manufacturer never said that, the manufacturer very mush did not say that.
>Works both ways
Not in this case, since it is up to you to prove that manufacturer has ever, EVER said that. Your only source is Jane's article, that is factually incorrect, since T-50 does not use Irbis and Su-35S does not use Belka. It's as simple as that.

>>30508235
Its what they reported, ergo it was what was told to them at the expo.

>>30508255
>Since the manufacturer never said that

Janes reported, ergo they did to janes.

>Not in this case, since it is up to you to prove that manufacturer has ever, EVER said that.

And i have. Do you need the link again?

>>30508268
>Janes reported, ergo they did to janes.
Literal appeal to authority.

>post an interview where the manufacturer clearly says that the AESA radar in the T-50 is very much different from the Irbis of the Su-35.

The manufacturer is wrong! Jane's is always correct! REEEEEEEEEEEEEE! Vatnik shills!

If Jane's says so therefore the manufacturer told them! The manufacturer is not the best source for defense related news! Jane's is always correct! REEEEEEEE!

>>30508259
Who told them what at the expo? No source named. They just pulled it out of their ass. Even the manufacturer clearly says it is not the same.

>>30508283
Do you have any way to independently verify claims one way or another? The problem with useing that arguement is, to defeat mine, you have to appeal to another authority in opposition.

>>30508289
I never said janes is always correct. Janes has been wrong, historically, alot.

What janes does do, however, is tell the public what manufacturers tell it.

Being wrong does not preclude you from being a source.

The PAK FA is roughly analogous to the F-15SE Silent Eagle. It nowhere near as stealthy as the F-35 or J-20, let alone the F-22.

If the F-22 is 5th gen, and the Su-30 a 4th gen, then the PAK FA would be a 4.5 gen at best.

>>30508298
Janes RARELY names sources for very obvious reasons.

>>30508302
The problem is it is up to you to provide a single occasion when the manufacturer said or even ever implied T-50 uses Irbis or Su-35S uses Belka.

>>30508289
Easier on them. They still have hangover after 4th July. Who knows what twisted things they might still be seeing.

>vatnik shrills on russia stronk kool-aid:
totally credible source

>Janes, professional organization with 118 years in the biz
ALL CAPITALIST LIES!!!

>>30508310
Here you go!

http://www.janes.com/article/58166/singapore-airshow-2016-analysis-pak-fa-s-asian-export-hopes-stymied-by-lack-of-fifth-generation-qualities

>>30489169
Norkie J-31s when?

>>30508329
>Jane's is Tikhomirov NIIP
This American imbecile is broken.

>>30508370
Janes is what the manufacturer told them at the expo.

I have never once said or implied anything different.

>>30508370
The manufacturer is the source of what the manufacturer tells, not Jane's. Jane's posted factual bullshit.

>>30508436
Janes only reports on what janes is told at these various expos. It has been like this since time eternal.

>>30508457
And since the manufacturer never said or implied what they reported, they reported bullshit.

>>30508466
Except they did, because, again, janes only reports what they are told at these events.

>>30489171
go back to kspg

>>30497290
>>30497888

So F-15's tried to knife-fight with Su-30's? Planes specifically designed for crazy dogfighting capability?

Only thing this says is that nip pilots were retarded. F-15 would get fucked in a dogfight with old Mig-29 too.

They are still much better fighters overall when used correctly.

>>30508306
>PAK FA would be a 4.5 gen at best

It is. It's RCS is just slightly better than Rafale's.

>>30508474
Except they did not, since the manufacturer never said or implied what they reported.

>>30508549
If it was reported by janes, then the manufacturer very much did.

>>30508658
Too bad Jane's is not Tikhomirov-NIIP.

>>30508704
Janes reports what they tell janes, however.

F-35s don't have supercruise so its not a 5th gen btw if we follow their logic.

>>30508752
Well it does but only for a bit due to fuel requirements.

>>30508329
>>30508381
>>30508436
Just post the whole thing you niggers.

>>30508775
Fug that. Im not (in the off chance) washing 500 down the fucking drain for an internet fight.

>>30508758
If you're talking about the Mach 1.2 transonic cruise, I'm pretty sure it's a thermal limitation.

The Chinks are copying the right ideas. I hear the J-20 will incorporate some sort of sensor fusion and EOTS. Even if the stealth is lacking, the Chinese will at least have a decent aircraft that can process and pass useful information. On the other hand, the T-50 by Russia is basically a Su-35 with some stealth coating. Not very impressive.

>>30508801
I thought i read somewhere it was a fuel limitation.

If its a thermal thing than it should just be an altitude issue.

>>30508792
Then why is there someone dropping Tikhorimov as a source then? That someone must have seen the whole thing so post it.

>>30508803
Problem with the chinese is we dont really know a damn thing about their fighter.

I would kill for a LEGIT j-20 DOTE report. Its not all milk and honey like the PLA would like the world to belive.

>>30508810
Because janes did not specifically name drop the company, so thats what he is strawmanning on. Chances are it was just a sukhoi rep, but fuck giving him that inch.

>>30508733
Too bad the manufacturer never said or implied what they reported.

>>30508836
Except, they did because janes reported on it.

>>30508775
What whole thing, imbecile American? Do you realise that a mere implication that T-50 uses Irbis or that Su-35S uses Belka is outright fucking retarded?

>>30508839
Too bad Jane's is not Tikhomirov-NIIP.

>>30508805
I think it's specifically to do with the engine core or something along those lines; the F135 can produce >50,000lbf for example, but they have it tuned down to 43,000lbf to give it a good lifespan. Given that up until recently the F135 had the hottest recorded turbine inlet temperature (that's the part where fuel has just been burnt in the combustion chamber and is entering the high pressure turbine stage), I would expect it to be an issue of turbine thermal build up, which, if allowed to build up, would weaken it to the combustion pressures. The turbine blades aren't actively cooled (no fighter engine turbine blades are), so getting to a higher altitude wouldn't assist it much, if at all; just possibly through reducing the engine mass flow and reducing the amount of fuel burnt.

>>30508846
Wew lad, you are telling me you dont have acess to the whole article this ENTIRE TIME?!?

>>30508865
Whew, imbecile American, are you telling me that T-50 uses Irbis or that Su-35S uses Belka?

>>30508849
But janes reports what it gets told it at expos.

>>30508877
Too bad what Jane's reports has little to do with real life where the manufacturer never said or implied what they reported.

>>30508888
But they did, because janes reported it as such.

>>30508875
WEW LAD, DAT DEFLECTION.

This entire time i thought you had access to the entire article.

Why are you commenting when you can only see half of it?

>>30508894
Nah, since they did not it does not matter what yellow press reports.
>>30508904
Whew, imbecile American, why are you afraid to answer the question?

>>30508912
>Nah, since they did not it

But anon, they did because the reported it as such.

>Yellow journalism

That phrase again anon, we talked about this!

>why are you afraid to answer the question?

The question is answered in the article.

>>30508952
But imbecile American, it does not matter what yellow press reports. Why are you afraid to answer the question, imbecile American?

>>30508960
Anon, there is no need to be rude, the question is answered in the article.

You DO have access, right?

>>30508528

I read somewhere that Mig-29s are extremely difficult to control when put in a dog fighting scenario, is there any truth to this?

>>30508233
>what is google translate

>>30509013
Dont know if realistic, but in DCS it is indeed hard to control and kinda spongy feeling in pulling manoeuvers. You cant just pull a turn just like that with a MiG-29, or you will get into a death spiral that takes much effort to recover from. You basically need to have your hand on the trim-controls all the time, which control the fuel-trimming function. Basically, you turn by using both your control surfaces in coordination with shifting your fuel-weight to the direction you want your plane's nose to get down to.

Takes a lot of effort, but if done right, you can basically turn on a dime (on cost of your consciousness, as you black out if you are faster than 700kph).

>>30508306
>>30508543
By your logic the F-35 is a 4.5 gen plane too. Not being able to supercruise, as well as having a frontal RCS comparable to the F-15SE...

So what would be the J-20's main role anyways?

>>30509072

F-35 has much better RCS than Silent Eagle.

But yes, it don't match the 5th gen definition that was made for F-22.

>>30509072
>as well as having a frontal RCS comparable to the F-15SE...

But it doesn't.

Its orders of magnitude better.

The F-15SE's RCS is improved, but its still nowhere near approaching 5th gen levels.

>>30509220
>>30509240
Boeing's target for the frontal RCS of the SE is F-35 level.

>>30509260
Source?

>>30509260
>F-15SE
>VLO

Really makes you think

>>30508850

>TIT

My African American, now I've got a good urge to crack open my propulsion systems book

>>30489341
I think you mean YF12.

>>30508960
I have access to the full article. There's no mention of any official source. He's just baiting you.

>>30509260
Except that even with the newest RAM the airframe would have to be completely redesigned to accomplish F35 RCS levels.

File: F-15SE_2.jpg (344KB, 800x726px) Image search: [Google]

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>>30511283
Psh, obviously they're using magic to stealth these massive intakes, what do you know

>>30511786

F-15E No.1

I wonder how many hours of flight she has,well at least is not one of those TF-15A who started at Luke AFB then went to Ferris trials,then as F-15E prototype and finally to NASA tech tryouts

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J-11D is cute. Dat canted radome

>>30486704
The implication is that these are now service aircraft, not test beds.

>>30511786
They are using the same russian spess magic that the PAKFA is using

>>30513863
The result of which is a Super-Hornet tier RCS, not anywhere near the level of the F-35.

>>30509013
IIRC, F-16 pilots who flew MiG-29s noted that they're comparable to F-16s in maneuverability, but they were more difficult and dangerous to fly because they didn't have the advanced controls and safety mechanisms F-16s did.

>>30497290
>having to dump flares to disengage
>having to

What the fuck does this even mean, you dumb cunt? Anyone who's ever seen footage of aircraft doing training missions will see how they always pop a few flares as they peel out of their attack run; it's a reflexive, preventative thing you do because heat-seeking missiles don't give you any warning that they're inbound, and at close range you won't have time to react if one is fired at you. So when you disengage from a fight the first thing you do is pop a few flares.

That doesn't mean a fucking thing, you stupid lying chink shill. Eat shit.

>>30514009
That's because they flew MiG-29A.

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>>30508061
>No, American imbecile, that's not how it works. If Jane's reported T-50 uses Irbis, Jane's is yellow press that posts bullshit. Because T-50 does not use Irbis. Go take another shot of moonshine, founding fathers approve.

Cry more, chinkaboo

>>30508061
pig disgusting china go home

>>30515226
>>30515248
>Mad American imbeciles think I'm a gook
Lol.

>One guy shitting all over Jane's

The only "Yellow press" in this thread is one butthurt chink, it would seem.

>>30515307

Or a Turk. Turks are almost as stupid as gooks.

>>30486743
Looks just like the F-35.

>>30515436
I think you need a stronger prescription

>>30486672
>tfw successfully derailed the whole thread with muh S-ducts and muh 0.1m2 signature

vatniks are too easy

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the silhouette is just too strange

>>30515554
Dat yuro feel tho mmmmmmmmmmm. This and the F-20 are the best looking birds out there.

F-35 should be dubbed the Lexi "Taco" Belle.

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>>30515554

File: J-20 2016 - 18.12.15.jpg (253KB, 1600x1071px) Image search: [Google]

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>>30515585