When did Generals stop mattering when it came to actually running

>>30433904
money and politics

>>30433904
OBAMA
B
A
M
A

>>30433924

What amazing Generals served under Carter? Bush? Any president since Truman?

Maybe there are still generals like that, but no conflicts significant enough for them to be heard of

Gulf War.

We realized we had such a huge advantage over almost everyone else. That we could just stumble into a country and still win.

>>30433930
Schwarzkopf

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You have to look outside of the corruption that is America. There will never again be an American actually worth of combat leadership.

As for the rest of the world, Arseny Pavlov is still kicking, as of last reports

the USA has gained over 30 flag officer positions since 9/11. most of these are desk jockies in the DC area. which essentially serve as lobbiests for the military.

any position that is a flag officer but has no combat authority. Should be eliminated or down graded to a Colonel/Captain.

It'll be a lot cheaper. Because flag officers draw a huge amount of support. VC airplanes. staff officers, ncos, and civilians. special housing. staff cars. etc.

>>30433962
This. Last great General. When Shinsecki came in and made the black beret standard regular army headgear and stole it from the rangers, that was the final nail on the coffin.

>>30433930
Petraeus is ok.
He esd still a signature machine but he had some decent strategies

>>30434153

>Mr. A-Mistress-At-Every-Base is ok

Do you realize what you just said?

>>30433984
20 rubles for comrade

>>30434373
That was mostly Obammer trying to ruin his reputation for no apparent reason.
They fucking hate each other

>>30433904
>sf
>ranger
>scuba
>master parachute badge

Not to sound like a fan, but he has probably done something that gives him some sort of legitimacy.

>>30434582

Schools != Experience

You should be looking at the rack, not badges

A lot of "Three years at this base, give me an award just because" awards.

>>30434606
True, but thats what im getting at. Hes not some war hero, but probably done more then atleast half of the other generals at that level.

>>30434606

I would agree with you saying that about Ranger school, but special forces isn't something they just let everyone in on.

Special forces tab carries infinitely more weight than a Ranger tab. 3 bitches have Ranger tabs. 0 have SF.

But I agree with the awards statement. I never look at general officers racks because they get shoe in awards for supervising. Unless it has a V device gtfo

>>30433984
that manlet looks like shit

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>Wanting to be a General

I never wanted to be a General. I always wanted to be a Colonel. Colonels are badass.

You should want to be a Colonel, /k/.

>>30434661
Also scuba badges are badass , one of the underrated hardest schools in the Army.

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>>30433904
For the corps after Conway they let an Airwing pog be commandant. Before that it was always an Infantry officer.

Then the SJW's showed up with muh woman's combat.

Fuck it I'm a libertarian but let's just all vote Hillary and jump start this train wreck.

>>30434772
Hillary's likely SecDef pick is a woman. Who wants the USA to occupy southern Syria and eliminate the Assad regime.

I wonder who could be behind this?

When wars stopped being regularly fought between two organized armies. The corporatization of the military, the advent of information technology, and the rise of regular asymmetric warfare has pushed the role of a general from that of Most Important Dude to Hey Look It's That Guy In Charge.

This isn't necessarily a bad thing. It means generals won't be riding into possible death with their troops for the sake of some abstract concept like glory, camaraderie, or honor. On the other hand, though, this also means they're essentially Big REMF On Campus, and nothing more. They often get less of a say in equipment issued or stratagem used.

shortly before ets'ing after desert storm.
i remembered sitting through a spiel by a fuckin' full bird colonel
about dental insurance.
i think that was the moment i decided to get out.

>>30433984
This picture needs to be given to the onion.

>>30433904
Generals are like CEOs, even in antiquity. They're not supposed to dirty their hands in combat. Their function in modern times is to be the avatar for their army when dealing with the political machienery, procure resources at the highest level and set strategic goals. Here is where the WAR is won. Not in battlefield but in boardrooms and meetings. Hitler didn't understand this while Stalin quickly realized his Generals knew what they were doing (or get shot). This was also why Rommel was a genius tactical commander but a mediocre General. That famous maxim about "Amateurs talk about tactics, but professionals study logistics" still holds true.

Higher up Officers in general don't do anything other than PR and long winded speeches that are corny that they wrote the night before. The higher ranking you get the farther away from doing your job you get, once you reach O5 - O6 you become a spokesman

>>30433904
>Now they seem to either be pure PR people or signature machines for other people's ideas.

The military has generals whose job is to lobby the government for generals to have better pay. It's basically a job which revolves around asking for more money.

M A T T I S
A
T
T
I
S

>>30434562

Petraeus had a fantastic reputation because of Iraq and the Republicans were exploring nominating him a presidential candidate.

Remember when Black Ops 2 had him as Secdef in 2025?

So what rank lets you be badass now?

I assume it's Colonel.

>>30435955

>Officer
>Badass

Two Rockers is Badass.

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In terms of number of people personally killed, probably this guy was the last of the greats.

>>30433962
Schwarzkopf was chosen because he's a good public relations officer. His original plan to invade Iraq was just to attack the front of the enemy's positions. Even funnier was that Colin Powell actually presented the plan to the President for consideration. Either Powell thought Schwarzkopf was retarded and was throwing him out to dry or was equally retarded or apathetic.

Eisenhower. MacArthur. Marshall.

>>30435969

Is First Seargeant a good rank?

>>30436105
two rockers is sergeant first class

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>>30436084

Who's plan was the left hook then?

>>30436286
That's also attributed to Schwarzkopf but only after he was reinforced with another 9 or so divisions from Europe.

>>30436286

Nice to see a reminder Americans weren't the only nation to fight Iraq in Desert Storm.

>>30436286
>>30436340
Correction: The left hook was a variation of a plan by Dick Cheney to drive toward Baghdad.

start at 14:45
https://youtu.be/Hx7X7yRmoUU?t=14m45s

>>30436286

>Trusting the France to be your extreme flank guard

Huh

>>30433904
What is Fucked up is people like General Milley are actually great leaders and officers. They are just castrated by the current administration.

>>30436772
Why not? The French army of 1991 was not the French army of 1940.

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>>30436084
>Eisenhower. MacArthur. Marshall

The fuck kind of list is this? You think those men more warrior-generals than old blood and guts himself?

>>30436286
>12 western divisions to fight the iraqis
The fuck. I get you can never have too many troops, but that seems like overdoing it.

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>>30437028

What would Patton and Lee think of each other?

>>30437273

>Overdoing

There's no such thing when it comes to killing your enemy and preventing deaths on your side.

>>30437273

Don't forget that at this time the Iraqis had the fourth largest army in the WORLD (56 full divisions)

>>30434562

Remember Lincoln and McClellan?

Same thing, one is a presidential hopeful, the other is a president looking to crush all rivals.

>>30433954
>We realized we had such a huge advantage over almost everyone else.
Nobody thought that. Nobody. I remember that shit. Everyone said we can do this. We're going to do this. But we're going to take a fucking gut punch getting it done. Everyone was expecting us to take some bad shots. Even after the air war went so well and the post-Vietnam Air Force/DoD focus on high technology systems was vindicated, people were saying, "well, we still gotta get this done on the ground, and they look like some mean motherfuckers." We hadn't fought a war serious war in 16 years, and they'd just spent the last decade locked in one of the more vicious conflicts of the last half of the 20th century. And it wasn't just the Soviet/Russians that were saying all this. It was in our own press.

For shits and giggles, though, there's this:
http://fmso.leavenworth.army.mil/documents/rs-storm.htm
That's the Soviet high command reacting to the war week by week. They start off super cocky about all their awesome AA equipment and IADS and aircraft. The soul-destroying slide to disbelieving denial is entertaining to track.

>That we could just stumble into a country and still win.
If this is the lesson you took away from the Gulf War, you're a moron. That result was the product of deep planning, preparation, carefully collected IADS/C4SIR intelligence and excellent training. That entire war was planned and run like a fucking Swiss watch.

>>30435926
And that backfired on them since politically Petraeus is a lefty. He just founded a gun grabber group with Mark Kelly and Grabby Giffords.

>>30436863
More like the Iraqi army of 1991 was not the German army of 1940

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>>30437028
Patton was fine, but question was "When did Generals stop mattering..." not Lt. Generals or Maj. Generals. Sadly, he just never got a chance to plan his own Inchon.

>>30436863
>>30436772
>>30437946
>trusting the french after 1871

>>30433904
Man in the photograph looks pretty squard away.

2nd award CIB - good enough for me. SF and Ranger are just schools. They train you for combat. CIBs tell the story.

>>30438099

>Your LT thought he heard gunshots during that one convoy, HERE'S YOUR CIB SOLDIER!

Double CIB just means he thought he heard gunshots in two different wars.

>>30438122
so you have one or two then?

>>30437865
>http://fmso.leavenworth.army.mil/documents/rs-storm.htm
>He noted that Iraq failed to take advantage of its one opportunity to mount a preemptive strike against allied forces
Been mentioned twice now, what was that opportunity. I never really studied the Gulf war so I'm curious as to what this "opportunity" was because they make it sound like it could have made it less of a rapefest.

>>30438131

I went to college, sir

>>30438122
Incorrect

You must engage the enemy, hot rod.

>>30438137
Iraq was poised to invade Saudi Arabia and massing on their border (possibly even border skirmishes or the Iraqis took a border town). It was around this time that the Saudis began to warm up to the idea of letting the US troops into their country. It was called Operation Desert Shield, and consisted of us moving a fuckton of troops to Saudi Arabia to discourage the Iraqis from invading and to give us a spot to launch an invasion of Kuwait and Iraq. During this build up the Iraqis could have attacked and done massive damage to unprepared Saudi and US ground forces.

>>30438137
Can't be sure, but IIRC they wanted the Iraqis to launch a strong air attack and then jump off into Saudi Arabia shortly thereafter, all more or less right after the US and allies started their buildup. Sort of facerape the staging areas before a critical mass of enemy forces could be built up. However, the Iraqis really had neither the air power or the army to carry through an invasion of Saudi Arabia.

It still would have ended really really badly for them. But the coalition would have probably taken a lot more casualties.

>>30437865
I recall hearing accounts in the press -- well after it was over -- that the President was told we'd lose 300 aircraft the first night. And he had, after all, been a naval aviator and gotten his ass shot down in the Pacific, so he understood what that meant. And he said, IIRC, that he could accept that.

When all the allied aircraft returned safely after the first big sortie, the White House went berserk with joy. They couldn't believe it.

>>30438198
Again, I'm not too up on this, but wouldn't they have been kept back by the two aircraft carriers and the two battleships with naval artillery and planes? Any good read on that situation?

>>30438226
This also happened with LBJ during the Vietnam War.

He'd flown combat missiles during WW2, so he spent a lot of evenings trying to figure out what had happened to downed US pilots, and keeping tabs on US air operations.

Makes me mad that we haven't had a veteran president since HW.

>>30438261
Drop in the bucket compared to their total force strength. They had the 4th largest army in the world and home field advantage.

>>30438268
And his micromanagement got a lot of those pilots killed. Combat experience doesn't necessarily equal competence. Though I agree it's nice to have a CnC that realizes the price.

Anyone know where I can get War Is A Racket by Butler in epub format? SPEAKING OF GENERALS, I mean.

It's like $10 and I don't really want to buy it, but I feel like I'll have to because I can only find pdfs.

>>30437279
Harry Turtledove's Southern Victory series has a pretty interesting perspective on it, with Patton basically being the Lee of the 1940s.

>>30438261
>naval artillery
You should check out a theatre map of that war anon. Keep in mind that the longest ranged naval artillery we had (Iowa class 16" guns) only had a 20.55nmi range.

>>30438301
>Patton basically being the Lee of the 1940s.

How? Patton is far too crass, foul-mouthed, and pig-headed to be Lee

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>>30434128
Do you like rainbow beret, anon?

Black should be standard beret for everyone. Only special snowflake got to have special colored beret

Also, speaking about shinseki, I don't know either to laud him or blame him on the stryker programme.

President Obama is our Commander in Chief and he's doing a great job of leading from the front and defeating our enemies. He is our napoleon.

>>30438287
I'm aware of that, but how much would they have been able to commit to an invasion of Saudi Arabia and how willing they would be to run straight into a meat grinder in a sprint to disrupt landings is what I'm thinking about.

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>>30433904
>No arrowhead on his AFEM
>No Star on his jump wing

Fucking cherry.

>>30438337

>leading from the front

You think Obama has ever had an MRE in his life?

Hell, do Generals in Iraq and Afghanistan eat MREs?

>>30438313
Around the landing area for troop and material transports wouldn't be covered?

>>30438333
Shinseki wasn't the type of general you'd trust to formulate frontline strategy. He's more of a logistic kind of guy

>>30438329
Not in terms of character, but in terms of experience in the war. Patton masterminds a combined arms assault that thrusts in to Ohio in the summer of '41 whilst fighting for the CSA.

>>30438351
Not everyone can be John R. Vines.

>>30438373
If they disrupted carrier ops enough with strike aircraft, they could very well have used aircraft to keep them off the beach. It's far more likely that the disruption would have forced the US to shift landing zones to further away, or even to the Red Sea, depending on the success of the Iraqi strikes and then push.

It's all pretty nebulous, though. There's not really any one time you can point to and say, "THERE! THEY SHOULD HAVE GONE THERE!"

>>30438392
That's practically what he did tho. Stryker was supposed lower the logistical footprint by adopting common chassis for army expeditionary forces. In fact, he fought tooth and nail (and lost) for more men in Iraq

>>30438423
Hmm, well thanks for clearing it up anyways. It's interesting to consider the could have beens.

>>30438333

Your regular infantry shouldn't wear berets. They don't know how to wear them and look stupid.

> Garrison caps for Infantry
> Berets for Tankers, Rangers, and Special operations forces
> Stetsons for Cavalry

Pre-ACU had the headwear just right.

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>>30438501
Agreed.

>>30433930
Mattis

>>30438501

I'm not sure there's anything that matters less to the effectiveness of a fighting force than the FUCKING HATS THEY WEAR IN GARRISON

>>30438567
I put a second up for this one. Although soldier's generals always look good from the ranks and usually from the outside. It doesn't necessary make them amazing strategic minds. I'd have to dig deeper on Mattis before I could be sure. Just don't know enough about his career beyond the awesome quotes and basic facts.

>>30438501
>americans wearing berets

I've never understood this. Why does it consistently look so fucking goofy? How can they get it so wrong when Europeans look just fine?

>>30434772
>I'm a libertarian
*tips fedora*

>>30438501
Every country has it's own standards for beret wear, and then specific units and trades often have their own traditions as well

Berets always look retarded, but telling some guys they aren't wearing them right is stupid. They are wearing them right, they're just wearing them in a way you don't like because you got taught differently.

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>>30438715
I like 'em

>>30434153
>Petraeus is ok.
>ok

He was only mentioned because he was commander of ISAF at the time. The Afghan war having probably one major general a year is pretty much a war of knocking out generals.

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>>30438790
They're hit and miss.

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>>30433904

>When did Generals stop mattering when it came to actually running the Army?

Depends on the leader of the country. Unless the General is the leader of the country (pic related), he's always going to have politicians telling him to do shit.

As far as the USA goes Bush Sr. definitely listened to Schwarzkopff, that's the last time we really had a General in charge of a war and coincidentally the last one that went as planned.

Obama in particular views war as a series of political objectives, so to him a good general is someone who agrees with him when he tells them what to think and tells the press what he tells them to when Obama's plan (using the term loosely) fucks up.

>>30438501
Ok I'm taking the bait
>berets for tankers, rangers, and special operations forces
>garrison caps for infantry
Why does it make sense to you for tankers to have berets instead of infantry if you are giving it to rangers and special forces?

>>30438843
when did bush's war become obama's failure. as I recall, the generals were calling bullshit on bush's plans, until rumsfeld "retired" all the dissenting generals

>>30438349
Shits just as bad as our fucking SMA leg

Bashur DZ here.

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>>30438843
>>30438951

>when did bush's war become obama's failure

Well Iraq and Afghanistan were less fucked up in 2008 then they are now (granted they were still fucked up). I'd say having 8 years to improve the situation and only going backwards counts as a failure as do the chaos he caused in Libya and Syria.

Bush was a fuck up, Obama is an even bigger fuck up.

>>30438942
Because tankers have always worn berets. The British Royal Tank Regiment, the first armored regiment in history, wear a black beret because the vision slits on early tanks were so small and impractical that any form of peaked headgear or helmet wouldn't have been practical.

Tankers and berets are pretty inseparable because they've literally never worn anything else.

>>30433984
Is that fag wearing an earring?

>>30439046
I'm more offended by the beard.

>>30439029
are we supposed to give a flying fuck what the fucking british royal tank regiment does with their fucking berets? By this logic it belongs to the infantry because of the first recorded use being used by the french, Chasseur Alpins.

>>30439029
Pretty much every armored unit on earth wears a black beret at this point.

>UK
>switzerland
>austria
>germany
>poland
>israel
>sweden
>finland
>brazil
>greece
>canada
>australia
>pakistan
>bangladesh
>india
>spain
>sri lanka
>portugal
>france

Shit's tradition.

>>30433904

When battles got too big and too complicated for one dude to reliably manage from the back of a horse.

>>30438099
>SF tab is just a school
Shows you don't know what you're talking about.
The responsibilities of a captain on an ODA is greater than what a major would experience at the battalion level.

>>30439089

Yea, but American infantry never wore berets until 2004.

The US Armored Branch took up the Black Beret from the British all the way back to WW1, when they operated their first Renault FT's.

Tradition means a ton to the military. Units maintain the silliest of traditions for morale and cohesion purposes.

Although, wearing the Black Beret got a bunch of British Tankers killed in WW2. They went into battle with their sweet looking Berets, while the Americans swapped to helmets.

>>30439263
Wasn't it 2001?

Also airborne and ranger units started wearing berets around 1980

>>30438815
>expecting a private to wear a beret correctly
This is why Rangers will never be as good as they wish to be.

>>30439012
Obama's black, what did ya expect?

>>30439339
lets be honest we all have seen way worse than that private

>>30439356
Kinda like
>>30438790
With his long tab and only an EIB

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>>30439355

Not an excuse.

>>30439418
genetics is genetics, obama is probably the dumbest president the US has ever had
On top of that he's a liberal who's gotten everywhere he had through being black/a communist

>>30438099
>SF and Ranger are just schools
>SF
>Just a school
Fucking kek

>>30438423
>There's not really any one time you can point to and say, "THERE! THEY SHOULD HAVE GONE THERE!"
No, but you can say "Shit, maybe they shouldn't have gone to Kuwait"

>>30439355
One expects better from the HNIC.

>>30439563
Ain't gonna argue that.

But when you're the big swinging dick in your strong man dictator paradise, and you've long ago killed off anyone who'd have the balls to tell you that you shouldn't do some crazy shit, well, sometimes you get so high on the smell of your own shit you just gotta roll tanks to Kuwait City to holla at some bitches.

>>30439592
>holla at some burqas.

FTFY

>>30435889
MAD DOG FTW!!!!!!!!!!

I'd love to see Gen. Mattis as trumps vp or secdef. Nothing could get me more erect.

>>30436277
Gunnies are based as fuck to.

>>30434705
>not captain, commodore, fleet admiral, major, or brigadier general

its like you didnt even both to pick the one with the fanciest fucking name

>>30436286
Wait, Syria fought along side us in Desert Storm?

>>30434128
Rangers should never have had it, tankers should have been given the black beret like very other fucking country, rangers rightfully get their tan one.

>>30439054
His sleeves are too long

>>30439111

Well, the world wide acceptance of the Prussian general staff system somewhat delayed that.

Besides, all battles are too big for a single man on horse back to win by himself. There's always unsung junior leaders behind every great victory in history

>>30439111
Classy.

What about Rommel tho? He was reported to of flown the scout plane from time to time to give him awareness. That's kind of like a modern horse

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>>30439534
Just a school. What do they train you for? Combat?

Guess who has more experience - a 2nd Division Infantryman with tours under his belt or a non-deployed green beret.

>>30440203
>fanciest name
>not picking Sea Lord

>>30435010
>even in antiquity
>who is Napoleon
>who is Alexander

>>30441207
Probably depends where and when those tours were

>>30441701
Both not generals?

>>30441748
You wouldn't do shit nigger

Why don't you go back to downing piss swill beer and beating your three hundred pound wife in front of your 7 mulatto children, fag

>>30433904
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DS2wXSKF5k

>>30441776
>>30434661

>I would agree with you saying that about Ranger school, but special forces isn't something they just let everyone in on.

Tell this to my Ranger buddies that have completed multiple tours. They'd shoot your ass if you said

>Special forces tab carries infinitely more weight than a Ranger tab. 3 bitches have Ranger tabs. 0 have SF.


SF is no better than the Ranger Scroll.

Fuck off you piece of shit CoD faggot.

You haven't been in Ranger School either.

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>>30440280
Yes. One battalion that almost backed out at the last second. Regardless of whatever that map says, total Arab forces amounted to a brigade-minus who were supposed to be the face of the "liberation" to the rest of the Arab world. They did nothing apart from drive into an already-defeated Iraq for photo ops.

>>30436286
>whose plan was it to feint an army already bombed into irrelevance
Who the fuck cares?

>>30438099
>CIB
>legit
Not since 'Nam, actually. The only decoration I wouldn't dismiss outright—maybe—is the Purple Heart, as well as any school that doesn't accept women.

But who knows. If most of it's lying, fake bullshit, why wouldn't all of it be?

>>30434705

Fuck that. I'm trynna be a SSG and that's it.

>>30440203

Ah, but the Colonel (or Captain, in the Navy) is the highest rank that can be deployed to the field.

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>>30438815
That dude missed pretty hard, but I think it has more to do with shit design and construction.

>>30436773

Jake?

>>30440203
Field Marshal always sounded the spiffiest to me.

>peacetime military
nobody wants it. nobody needs to make any effort. when war comes, some guy who's actually sick of sitting behind a desk at post HQ will stand up and lead. it won't necessarily be those 3-4 goodballs you see being the faces of the military.

also
>implying we havent had at least one stellar joint-forces general in command of out last 2 excursions into the middle east

>>30442636
Just watching the first minute of this video made the tinfoil in my kitchen attack me and wrap itself around my head like a turban.

Fuck. You.

Now I need an anti-tinfoil action plan.

>>30437028
>MacArthur
*******seven silver stars*******
something you will never see.
full list-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service_summary_of_Douglas_MacArthur#Awards_and_decorations

>>30442985

The man was a coward who was more concerned of his own fame and well-being than the lives of his men.

>Dugout Doug MacArthur lies ashaking on the Rock
>Safe from all the bombers and from any sudden shock
>Dugout Doug is eating of the best food on Bataan
>And his troops go starving on...

>>30442985
Of course he would have a lot if decorations. "Dug out Doug" had his own army of PR staff following him around and nominating him for everything. His long game was a presidential bid until the Pax Americana settled in.

>>30442683
Tab != scroll

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>>30433904
>Napoleon "I spend 40k men's lives a month" Bonaparte
>Hannibal "half my army are alpine ice cubes" Barca
>Richard "faillite mes guerres de combat de pays d'outre-mer" Plantagenet
Yeah, it's a shame we don't have more leaders like them

>>30443063

Correct.

3/75

>>30434661
>3 bitches have Ranger tabs
Because they were waved through.

>>30442929
Why are you so offended? All that was said in the video is true.

>>30443765
>there are people in the US of voting age that actually believe this is true

Welp. We're fucked. And Trump is the asshole creampie door prize we get for winning.

>>30443780
>pushing hard for women in all combat jobs while simultaneously lowering standards
>pushing for trannies in the military
>focusing more on sexual assault prevention classes than actual training
>force reductions across the board while not also reducing the task load
>competent and experienced officers and NCOs being dorcibly discharged
>reduced funding to the point of the marines not being able to keep half of their air wing up at any given point and having to cannibalize museum exhibits for parts
>all in the past 8 years

What about that video isn't true?

>>30443874
>What about that video isn't true?
Let's start with him being a secret communist fascist big-business imperialist Manchurian Candidate with a secret agenda to destroy apple pie and the American way. All that within the first 40 seconds.

Seriously. If you don't suspect severe cherry picking and outright misrepresentation in a completely source-less (I've talked to people... I've had people tell me...) in a swirling shit-swizzle extravaganza of confirmation bias, well, you don't need to worry about anything but getting that burger flipped.

I don't have much love for Obama, but shit like this just makes reasonable arguments against his legacy get tainted with crazy tinfoil bullshit. If he didn't have so much bug-fuck crazy in his eyes, I'd suspect he was a DNC false-flag hand puppet.

>>30443970
>I don't have much love for Obama, but shit like this just makes reasonable arguments against his legacy get tainted with crazy tinfoil bullshit.
This. So much this.

Stop being such crazy assholes and actually use your logic and brains in your arguments.

Vietnam.

Lost that war due to public opinion.

>>30433930
Stormin' Norman?

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>>30433904
>When did Generals stop mattering when it came to actually running the Army?
They never stopped mattering, bub.
>Now they seem to either be pure PR people or signature machines for other people's ideas.
Part of their job description.
>What happened to Generals who led in the tradition of Hannibal, Richard the Lionheart, and Napoleon?
They led tiny armies compared to today's war machines with more primitive command and control infrastructures, necessitating their immediate presence.

In addition: they're also romanticized to hell and back.

There, I removed your rose tinted glasses off.

>>30444076

see >>30436084

>>30444019
>Lost that war due to public opinion.
Even before that, though, Generals were hamstrung and sidelined by both politics and politicians. Hell, a political analysis of major decisions in WWII reveal significant political interference in strategic and even tactical military decisions. Market Garden is a good example here.

The last war we had true generals being generals was when communications to political leaders took days or weeks round trip rather than milliseconds. If they have access, they put fingers in the pie and the generals have to employ political as well as strategic decision making.

>>30436084
>Douglas "Spooked by the Gook" MacArthur. >Douglas "Takes a Slap from the Jap" MacArthur.
>Douglas "Lets the Chink through the Chainlink" MacArthur

>>30444113
Are you remotely aware that "Gook" refers to Koreans (and sometimes Vietnamese) and "Chink" refers to Chinese?

>>30438843
>Obama in particular views war as a series of political objectives
There is literally nothing wrong with that. War is a continuation of politics

>>30444100
>The last war we had true generals being generals was when communications to political leaders took days or weeks round trip rather than milliseconds. If they have access, they put fingers in the pie and the generals have to employ political as well as strategic decision making.
Never thought about it that way. Makes a lot of sense. Are there any formal historical works running with this?

>>30444280
By other means, you cunt.

>>30443874
Just another /k/uck that wants to be fair and understanding while libshits aim for his firearms. Not worth arguing with.

>>30444444
what is the get?

>>30444206
Yes.

General MacArthur lost big time to both the Japs and the Chinese.

His commands both saw the longest US retreat ever pulled and the largest surrender of US forces since the US Civil War.

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>>30438349
>>30438995

Respect gents, only got practice ones. On the other side SMA Dailey does listen to the dudes(even though it's a bunch of stupid Joe bullshit) so I can move pay the leg thing.

>>30442683
Your ranger buddies would also call you a raging faggot and never talk to you again if they knew you were white knighting for them on the Internet.

>>30444831

>lol, sleeves can be rolled, I'm the best SMA ever
>But SMA, what are you doing about the fact congress is fucking with the GI Bill
>lol, sleeves, amirite joes?

Fuck that guy

>>30444831
Translation: He has a CIB

>>30444912
Jesus Christ. Agreed.

>>30442683
Spot the never served....

>>30446013
Fucking THIS

>>30438333
>Byourpowerscombined.jpg

>>30447045
>it's time to cross the streams. CROSS THE STREAMS!

>>30444592
It was all planned out from the white house
They abandoned their supplies on the retreat, then retreated to some place where they would starve.

The white house then let them sit in bataan for months without resupply or reinforcements

>>30441568
>Not picking Lord of the Dance

>>30438567
Seriously, this guy.

>>30436084
>doesn't require a complicated plan to absolutely mow over opposing force
>he doesn't make it over-complicated, so he's bad
WTF am I reading?

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>>30433904
Cherry

>>30444831
Nice rack. Wish I could of went to trashfinder

>>30442683
you're fucking retarded dude, the SFQC is 2 years long. Cooks and women can get ranger tabs.

>>30442711
Not sure if you're some bitter fucking specialist or an armchair faggot reading mil history books, but i can assure you a CIB is legit and anyone with a long tab that has one has seen some shit.

>be at bagram
>mortar lands in the middle of nowhere near the airfield
>watch people who were like 300 yards away get CABs and shit
>CIB/CAB/Bronze are pretty much meme tier at this point

>purple heart and silver+ are still pretty legit, more so if the guy is jr. enlisted, less so if it's some senior guy

>>30433984
METRO 2033 patch

The cringe is real.

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>>30433904
This bad mother fucked right here,
General Abrams, son of Tank.
Met this dude when I was in inna stan in 2012.

>>30442711
CIB is legit, it's CAB that everyone else who has "engaged the enemy in a theater of combat" gets one.

I've known entire Echo companies that have gotten them cause one water truck saw a mortar go off.

>>30444019
Bullshit. We lost the war because we couldn't overthrow the North Vietnamese - we were too terrified it would lead to a Chinese intervention, and potentially to a nuclear war. We could have fought on for another decade, but unless we got rid of the North, there was no way we could have saved the South Vietnamese government. This whole "Jane Fonda and the hippies sold us out" argument is as baseless as the "stab in the back" myth. The war was doomed from day one.

>>30451152

Once you kill enough people, I think you're allowed whatever you want on your uniform.

the higher up the food chain, the more your job becomes dealing with others higher up the food chain.

the job of a general is to run interference so his subordinates can do their fucking jobs. even hannibal had to put up with political bullshit when he wasn't in the fucking field, go read a history book you autistic nigger. more so, because the military leaders of carthage and rome were political leaders also; the two roles were inseperable. purely professional soldiers are a modern invention. as is modern communications, as previously leaders would have to remain closer to the action. this is not an advantage as it means you run greater risk of total decapitation and lack situational awareness.

also things were much less complicated back then and due to technology; strategy and tactics were much less refined. logistics has been a major contributor to this; a lot of the most important military advances in the last 200-300 years have been in logistics, which has caused an increase in officers and complexity because you have generally increased the size of the military to begin with. stores procurement and management is a cunt of a thing. they used to simply march, rape and pillage. this was a thing well into the 19th century and it wasn't especially effective.

>>30442772
First Sea Lord, but that's a position

Admiral of the Fleet

Lord High Admiral

Grand Admiral

Marshal of the Air Force

Bong Air Force ranks are bretty gud, Air Marshal, Air Vice Marshal, Air Commodore

>>30433904
Shit generals have always been kicked upstairs to the Pentagon

>>30436772
They did good you Neocon fagot.

>>30443990
>Stop being such crazy assholes and actually use your logic and brains in your arguments.
He said in a thread about generals sworn in on their ass-kissing skills rather than competence.