http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/09/europ e/britain-royal-navy-war

>>30218715
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHNfvJc99YY

>>30218728
no

>>30218715
rule britannia, britannia rule the waves

>>30218859
kek looks like they can't even rule warm water

"The equipment is having to operate in far more arduous conditions that were initially required," Rolls-Royce director Tomas Leahy said.
Managing director of BAE Systems Maritime, John Hudson, supported Leahy's comments, adding: "The operating profile at the time was that there would not be repeated or continuous operations in the Gulf."

how do you build a ship that can't operate in the locations that they have been operating the last 25 odd years?
How hard is it to add fucking cooling to a ship?

>>30219476
>Vaguely warm waters and summer weather
>"far more arduous conditions that were initially required"

>>30218715

>warm water

It's not the water. It's the heat in the air of those portions of the world. It is only really an issue if the ship is in economy travel with only a single WR-21 active. In combat, it would always have both active, as per standard protocol, and thus this wouldn't be able to happen.

Additional generators are being added to remove the issue on economy travel.

Rolls-Royce basically acted like fuckwits on the design of "You didn't specify it, so we thought we could get more money by forcing you to change." by seemingly deliberately ignoring Middle Eastern conditions. That is bad juju, Rolls, and the MoD won't forget it anytime soon.

But in an operational sense, it's massively over-reported. The ship has been operating for a fucking decade now all over the world and has done just fine. Any issues were mostly early on, or confined to only low operating states.

tl;dr - It's a bit of a storm in a teacup in the sense of the ship's combat operations and won't exist after another generator is added anyway. But a massive diplomatic mess for the industry behind it.

Oh who am I kidding, this is /k/. Of course logical facts and summaries won't get in the way of the shitposting to come.

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britbong navy in a nutshell

>>30219768
>Oh who am I kidding, this is /k/. Of course logical facts and summaries won't get in the way of the shitposting to come.

It only takes one fuck up to change the course of history.

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>>30220028
>exocet
>super etendard

>a4q
>unguided bombs

>>30219768
>It is only really an issue if the ship is in economy travel with only a single WR-21 active. In combat, it would always have both active
So basically it means that 45 got her economical range cut in half.

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>>30219768
>Fleet of new Destroyers crippled and worthless.
>storm in a teacup

Sure thing buddy.

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>>30221838
Almost like you didn't read his post or something.

Almost like you were trying to stir shit

Wouldn't do that would you anon?

>>30218715
Ok, so this is real cool and all, UT the other night in a C:MANO thread, anon used SLAM-ERs in an a2a setting.


Motherfucking how?

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>>30221925
Considering they can be remotely controlled in flight and have IR terminal homing, its not impossibe.

>>30219768
>>30219768
How can it not be water temp though? It's not like turbines have coolant to air heat exchangers. You're basically implying that there isn't main seawater cooling. Increased intake air temperature just decreases fuel efficiency and increases stress on the turbine. I'd be willing to bet they're still water cooled.

>>30221648

Not at all. Not even close, if anything at all.

They've been running with single generators for a decade now, and the issues are rare. They've done dozens of deployments, no problems, and new generators will be added soon anyway to remove even the fringe times it has happened.

It's a massive media over-reaction in the wrong direction. They should be looking more at the shitstorm brewing politically at Rolls-Royce for their angle on trying to price gouge based on loopholing on something they were potentially illegal on doing it on. Thats the real story here.

Really it's just British tabloids being dumb as fuck and one hysterical UK defence twitter poster over-reacting as usual.

Posting in this thread as well because why not

http://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/putting-the-type-45-propulsion-problems-in-perspective/

>>30222067

Because the water temperature is fine for it. Thats not an issue.

The problem is elsewhere, but it certainly isn't the "water."

Of course, it's worth remembering that this is all very word-twisting. What was SAID was that the engines had less reliability in those environments. So does almost every other fucking boat to some extent, because it's a shitty place to sail, forgive my language. (On /k/? What nonsense to swear!)

As was said, it's a bit of an over-reaction. Imagine someone in US Congress was screaming about the Virginia being shit because it's "not as good as a Seawolf" and using that as a manner of saying it sucked. Same sort of thing going on here.

The real "issue" was essentially that WR-21 goes down = power failure when only one generator was initially active. Thats very rare, and it's just that complete failure they're looking to stamp out. Decreased reliability in such environments comes to every ship, this just got interpreted very badly during a very heated meeting.

Not that it lets Rolls off the hook. They are going to get thrown under the fucking grinder for some things about this and the way they basically hid information.

>>30222080
They have to drydock them and cut open a sealed compartment to get to the space to add the second generator - source a family member who works at BAE Govan

>>30222125

Which will happen during their already scheduled refit periods anyway. No loss to deployments or changes to schedules. The Royal Navy has confirmed that no scheduled deployment has been missed yet in 10 years of operation and none are expected to be missed.

>>30222125

Nothing that has been said contradicts this.

They'll be cutting open the Type 45s anyway during their mid-life refits for the extra VLS space, which is when they are slated (iirc) for either adding to or upgrading the two existing generators.

>>30222121
No offense man, im not buying what you're saying. It's funny you bring up Virginias though, because some US submarines (which I'm purposely not going to name) have To be designed with particularly high seawater temps in particular locations under particular cooling water line ups in mind. And it's not a problem unqiue to nuclear powered ships. That's not to say that high air temperatures don't contribute to the problem, but as far as ships are concerned, seawater cooling has a MUCH larger effect on ship status than air temperature would. That's also not to say that this problem isn't blown out of proportion, I'm sure it is. But there is no doubt in my mind that this problem has its roots in seawater temperatures not air temperatures.

>>30218715

Surprising that for how long these ships have been in comission, they only discovered this issue now. Aren't they running simulations?

>>30222293

He's right though.

There's word-twisting going on here. Read the Jane's article on it.

http://www.janes.com/article/61089/inquiry-reveals-uk-s-type-45-destroyers-are-even-less-reliable-in-warm-water

>>30222293

I suppose the more accurate standpoint is that the media took a direction of "they can't handle warm water", which is just wholly inaccurate. It wasn't about "warm water" so much as "extremely hot and heavy geographical locations", of which water warming is a part of it, but it's not just due to "warm water" on its own.

As the investigation found,

"What we have found in the Gulf is that it takes the gas turbine generator bit into an area which is sub-optimal for the generator, and also we found that with the drive units that the cooling system created condensation within the drive units which caused faults."

"Leahy suggested the problems would be experienced by all gas turbines, not just the Rolls-Royce WR-21 engines fitted to the Type 45. It's not a fault of the WR-21. Even if it was a simple-cycle gas turbine it will still suffer the same fate in those circumstances, it's a law of physics."

>>30222347

The issue has been known for ages (happened on the first sea trial), but it was an open secret among the britbong defence sphere, until recently when someone leaked emails to the press.

>>30222351
>"That's also not to say that that this problem isn't blown out of proportion, I'm sure it is"
>linked article says nothing about air temperature, but headline mentions "warm water"

You get an F for reading comprehension.

>>30222354
I'm not at all disputing that the root problem is the ship operating in extreme geographical locations. I'm disputing your assertion that it's only a problem due to high air temperature. As I mentioned earlier, you will experience non-optimal turbine operating conditions with warm intake air, but it won't completely shit the bed. I'm simply asserting that ship system cooling is 99% of the time provided by seawater cooling at the highest level. I have no doubt that abnormally high seawater temperatures caused turbine failure through an inability to cool the damn thing. And I'm confident when I say that this was probably realized that this reliance on seawater for cooling was probably recognized by analysts as a root cause of turbine failure.

>>30222572

No you SIR get an F for reading comprehension, I said nothing of the sort about air temperature.

Read the actual article.

>BAE Sysyems [sic] Maritime Managing Director John Hudson said. "It was not designed explicitly or uniquely for operations in the Gulf."

>"we found that with the drive units that the cooling system created condensation within the drive units which caused faults and that caused electrical failures as well"

>>30222634
What exactly are you saying is being twisted in all this?

>>30222696

That a issue reliability faced by all other gas turbine, prevents the class from entering "warm/hot" water.

>>30221838
>that wedum
USA would have taken care of that situation and protested it before the bongs finished arresting him.

>>30222825
Nah. That's a copout, as I explained earlier. Yes, turbines will function inefficiently in warmer environments compared to more temperate environments, but that still doesn't give it a pass to completely fail when other comparable turbines won't completely fail in that situation. The fact that this statement is coming directly from BAE removes all doubt.

>>30222874

I'm not excusing the design flaw in the engines, but I'm not the anon who you think you are replying to. Neither do I know what you are trying to get me to argue.

>>30222976
I know you're not who I was originally replying to and I'm not trying to really argue anything. It just seems that the first person I was replying to is falling for BAE political sound bites by saying that "words are being twisted."

>>30222838
Its a fucking sketch, you stupid fucking cunt.

Why do these ships use turbine engines?

I spent a lot of time on a Ticon in those waters. It would fucking rain indoors all the time because of the hot, moist air.

>>30223199

Why do cars have engines in them when they have batteries?

>>30223361
cars don't use turbines

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>>30223390

>>30223440
ships have batteries too

>>30218715
British quality of engineering.

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>>30223460

>>30223478
Isnt the intercooler built by Northrup Gruman, huh huh, dumb American.


Its a shitpost reply to a shitpost,

>>30223568
Bait? I legit want sauce on this.

>>30223589
> The turbine itself was designed primarily by Rolls-Royce with significant marine engineering and test facility input from DCN, with Northrop Grumman responsible for the intercooler, the recuperator and system integration.[1][2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_WR-21#History

Im just shitposting about the rest though, if you read the rest of the thread, the problem is nowhere near as bad as everyone says it is.

>>30223607
I was legitimately interested though. Northrop from my experience can be pretty dodgy in contracts with their power equipment. And while I agree that the problem is probably being blown out proportion, I'm willing to bet that BAE and Rolls are definitely trying to save face by downplaying the problem.

>construction of Type 26 delayed
>the state of the Royal Navy

Which means only shitty boats like Russians and Israelis can swim in the Meds. They can't even get out of that pond. lol

>>30219768

>it's the warm air

My heart goes out to servicemen that have to deal without air conditioning. Particularly tanks, that's a load of crap. Glad to hear some have a/c now.

>>30219768
>Blaming Rolls-Royce for following specifications
There's a reason specifications exist buddy. They let you know what you have to deliver and what you don't.