So, anyone have any idea what these awnings are on the T-15 IFV?

>>29896325
You mean the slanted ERA that covers the exhaust? The one that can let gases leave but bullets can't enter?

>>29896325
top kek

>small protection fees and no beatings will come to you but only if you post 'good job, Krysha' in this thread

>T15
>BMP 3 with 3 Times the silhouette

who ever thought this was a good fucking idea?

>>29897990
>A BMP-3 with actuall armor.

Yeah, why would you want armor on a IFV.
The silhouette is probably still smaller than that of a M2 Bradley

>>29898056
Let me teach you something since you're retarded. Maybe you'll walk away more intelligent, or go around being an idiot still. The purpose of these vehicles is to take the infantry to the battle, not into it. They are also designed to give fire support when needed, they aren't designed to be MBT's or to clear streets. Adding a shit ton of uselss shit is fucking pointless for its job.

A 113 does the same job, almost as effectively.

> probably still smaller than that of a M2 Bradley
Yea, no. Fuck off retard.

>>29898138
Not him, but you are wrong on one points. You mistakes IFV for APC.

APC`s role is, like you describe - take infantry to battle, provide firepower if necessary.
IFV`s role, is provide close combat support to advancing infantry during battle. In this case, armor isn`t such a bad idea.

As for size - it is larger (longer) than Bradley, but smaller and better armored than Stryker.

>>29898836
>smaller than Stryker

>>29897990
>who ever thought this was a good fucking idea?
Apparently the Russians, Americans(GCV) and the Israelis(Namer), after the experience in fierce urban fighting.
>>29898138
>A 113 does the same job, almost as effectively.
>the same thing that gets roasted by RPG-2s and small mines, and is pierced all day long by AP 7.62, might as well be a fucking humvee
fucking retard detected.

File: 7996.jpg (1MB, 2244x1535px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 2244x1535px

>>29898894
Don't forget the Germans, not that they'll ever do anything with it.

File: Namer_in_US.jpg (1MB, 4288x2848px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 4288x2848px

>>29898138
Moving in line with the MBT's and delivering troops into the actual battlefield right onto the enemy's heads under direct fire is precise purpose of IFV in mechanized offensive. You may have received wrong impression about it because Americans had no experience in armored warfare for a loooong time and derive their comprehension of modern battlefield from bombing sandpeople stuck between 1950s and stone age.

The reason why infantry dismounts long before reaching enemy lines is because classical IFV like Bradley M2 or BMP-3 can no longer withstand modern anti-tank weapons. ATGMs have come a long way since Bradley or BMP were designed you see. So the infantry has to overcome long distance on foot which leads to casualties and reduces overall tempo of operation. This is the problem that new heavy platforms like Namer and T-15 are meant to solve.

>>29896325
beside the obvious point of those awnings to protect the exhaust, the thing is built for asymmetric warfare hence the multiple APS uints

After the collapse of the Soviet Union, most Russian army leaders forgot their doctrine, so they are trying to come up with a new doctrine while trying to remember their old one.

That is why there are 2 kinds of tank trucks, the first is the rehash of the vehicles used by the old doctrine, the Kurganets and Bumerang vehicles, and the other is the copy of Western superior mechanized tactics, the Typhoon and the T-15.

They literally do not know what to do. It is shown in other iterations, like the AK-12 and AEK-545, the Gorshkov and Grigorovich, the Kirov and the Slava, the Granit and the Vulkan and even Putin and Medvedev.

File: f for failure.jpg (4MB, 3000x2357px) Image search: [Google]

4MB, 3000x2357px

>>29899093
Gotta shift doctrine over time, allocate different forces to each threat around the world, always have an alternative. Nothing worse when one corportaion holds de-facto monopoly on certain class of hardware, and miltiary has to purchase dysfunctional shitwreck only because they have no other choice.

>>29899053
There's so much that's wrong with this post that I don't even know where to begin.

File: 20160326_161922_001.jpg (3MB, 5312x2988px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 5312x2988px

>>29898926
you may be surprised in the next coming years. I did some research for a german politics class last year about how I thought that based on their reluctance to leave afghanistan and their military officers talks on how theyre not getting a high enough budget(why do they need a budget raise when theyre barely involved outside of their special forces?) that they would ultimately spike their military spending because they want to get into the ground forces game again.
I believe the increase was from around 2.2% of their gdp to like 6 or 7%(too lazy to pull up paper to find sources for exact numbers) which is a pretty high spending jump when you look at germanys economic status

and behold... just yesterday their defense minister wants to remove soldier limit for a larger army. Theyre just a 'defense' force, right? its not like theyre expecting any sort of domestic attack?(kek kek asylum seekers)
http://www.dw.com/en/german-defense-minister-wants-to-remove-bundeswehr-personnel-limit-report/a-19241149

>>29898138
Except if its supposed to be operating alongside MBT's then he needs to be able to handle fire like an MBT

File: k-17 vpk-7829 (1).jpg (2MB, 2250x1500px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 2250x1500px

>>29899093
...Arleigh Burke and Ticonderoga, F-22 and F-35, M2 and Stryker, CH-53E and V-22. Dumbass.

>>29899169
That is rather significant. Gives me hope that there's hope yet for the children of my Teutonic ancestors.

>>29899169
German doesn't spend anything close to 2% gdp on defense though

>>29899221
Different roles, same, same, same.

Try again. Soviet and now Russian MIC has always made anything in the west look like child's play.

File: bait.png (84KB, 600x601px) Image search: [Google]

84KB, 600x601px

>>29899233
keked, 7/10

>>29899221
Burke replaces Tico, F-22 is air superiority while F-35 is strike, M2 is tracked while Styker is wheeled and V-22 is the future while CH-53E is the past.

They do not have the same purpose, They made the Slava in case the experimental Kirov does not do what it's supposed to do, like how an upgraded Talwar (Grigorovich) is being made in case their experimental ship (Gorshkov) does not deliver, like how they upgraded Bazalt (Vulkan) in case Granit is a dead end. Or Medvedev is actually Putin but does not go out shirtless in case someone recognizes his chest.

Stupid.

>>29899093
I-i literally don't know what to say. Your post made me dumber than fuck. This shit is like weaponized stupidity, I don't even...

>>29899233

You could only ever be this fucking wrong if you tried.

Tico and Burke both roll with Mk. 41 VLS, if I recall correctly. In a battlegroup setting, they're almost interchangeable. Almost. Once MQ-8s and LRASM start really getting around, they're absolutely interchangeable.

> F-22 = specialist.
> F-35 = multirole

> Stryker (MGS!) = specialist
> M2 Bradley = multirole

Fuck comparing Sea Stallion and Osprey, I ain't that bored.

>>29899169
has it ever occured to you why there are still u.s. troops stationed in germany? yeah nah, americans will never allow germans to considerably increase or rearm their military

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1v5QCGqDYGo

>>29899282
'Americans' don't have anything anywhere near close to the sort of control over politicians that you appear to think we do. It's not like we are a pure democracy, we're highly representative and it's still mob rule. No true American ever gets seriously asked what we think about real issues. At the very least, not by our 'leaders'.

>>29899252
Stop. You do not know what you are talking about.
Its nice and good to notice patterns but just like your English teacher overanalyzing an author's dreck more often than not when he meant a blue curtain he meant just that, nothing more.
Its the same here.
>like how an upgraded Talwar (Grigorovich) is being made in case their experimental ship (Gorshkov) does not deliver
The Grigorovich is made for the Black Sea fleet where it can get away with its slightly weaker sensors, armament and protection suites since the surrounding threats aren't that hot shit. It can't in no way sub for the superior Gorshkov in the Northern fleet.
>Bazalt (Vulkan) in case Granit is a dead end.
Another bullshit. Granit is based on the Bazalt- if the Granit is a dead end so is an upgrade of its evolutionary predecessor.
>Or Medvedev is actually Putin
Iphonechik represents the Atlantics power bloc in the Russian power structure; Putin represents the rest which are Eurasian integrationists.
>Stupid.
Dunning-Kreuger effect, ladies and gents.

>>29899282
?
Except Trump has already promised to do so

Any control the US has over Germany now is soft, and a big reason the US keeps troops there is because Germany bribes US politicians to keep those bases open.

>>29899385
/pol/ pls, primaries ain't even over yet. At least wait until it's flipflopping season to get emotionally invested in the promises of traitorous sycophants.

>>29899388
U wot m80? TTIP? I'm talking real general here nigga. Fair representation is dead in the ol' USA, at least when it comes to federal politics.

>>29899244
"Why Three Tanks" by Stephen "Cookie" Sewell

>>29899282
The US has openly wanted Germany to rearm since the 50's (and Japan since the mid 60's). You'd have to look at the UK and France for who kept pressuring them not to.

>>29899145
>There's so much that's wrong with this post that I don't even know where to begin.
Start then. It actually makes sense than this:>>29899093
Speaking of which:
>After the collapse of the Soviet Union, most Russian army leaders forgot their doctrine, so they are trying to come up with a new doctrine while trying to remember their old one.
They didn't actually. Right after the fall of SU the commanders fought using the same Soviet doctrine using an army that wasn't even a shell of its past self. Its like a world Olympian suffering a brain concussion that left him bedridden for 10 years then going back to his pre olympics training regimen with predictable results. The """new"""" doctrines are merely recognizing the fact that they have shrunk in both numbers and capability over the years - but as they regain their strengths expect a return to the old doctrine. Already we start to see this; they just reinstated the old Soviet regimental level and even the Army level starting with the 2nd Guards Tank Army.
>of Western superior mechanized tactics, the Typhoon and the T-15.
The HIFV and MRAPs are relatively new developments that both sides of the divide have dabbled with for decades but haven't found them necessary until now with advent of increasing occurence of conflicts in urban areas and low-level insurgency tactics.
>They literally do not know what to do. It is shown in other iterations, like the AK-12 and AEK-545, the Gorshkov and Grigorovich, the Kirov and the Slava, the Granit and the Vulkan and even Putin and Medvedev.
Again, reading tea leaves here.

>>29899399
I'll take it under advisement, but calling the difference between F-22 and -35, or the difference between M2 and MGS, something akin to light, medium, and heavy tanks (just guessing here) is something I think you'd find it very hard to justify. Multiroles supporting smaller specialized fleets is nothing new, in fact it's practically mandatory for good modern warfare. What constitutes the ideal multirole is where things begin to get murky in the way you seem to suggest.

Tico and Burke are unequivocally in the same role. That said, you could probably tack the word 'escort' onto every ship short of larger carriers, but none-the-less. Destroyer and Cruiser are next-to-meaningless terms when aimed at the USN, our 'escort' deployments can outmatch some foreign battlegroups, point blank.

This stuff isn't too hard if you keep an eye out for concept creep.

>>29899412
>2nd Guards Tank Army
So how is force organization broken down in Soviet doctrine? I.E. the rough composition of an elite mechanized infantry outfit vs the run of the mill?

>>29899435
>but calling the difference between F-22 and -35, or the difference between M2 and MGS, something akin to light, medium, and heavy tanks (just guessing here) is something I think you'd find it very hard to justify.

But they do take different roles. The F-22 and F-35 is a continuation of the Hi-Lo force mixture that's been around since the 70s. The M2 is an IFV, the M2 is for light, direct fire support.

The Tico and Burke are most definitely not the same role. The Tico is still far beyond the Burke when it comes to the air defense mission as the Burke class is when it comes to anti-sub duties.

>This stuff isn't too hard if you keep an eye out for concept creep.

It has far more to do with advances in technology. In particular the only one that's really close to overtaking the other is the Burke when it comes to the older Tico class. While the Tico can still pump out more radar energy than the Burke class can the advances in missiles and indirect targeting make it less of an issue. To say that two pieces of equipment are identical simply because they can perform similarly is extraordinarily ignorant.

>>29896325
More pointed questions.

Which are the APS, the big canisters, or the turreted small canister clusters? Does T-15 have 360 degree hard kill coverage?

>>29899471
*I meant the 1st. apparently im not yet over that dual wielding bs yesterday.
>I.E. the rough composition of an elite mechanized infantry outfit vs the run of the mill?
what kind of question is this? what kind of formation is an outfit?

>>29899513
> To say that two pieces of equipment are identical simply because they can perform similarly is extraordinarily ignorant.
Agreed, but to say that equipment sharing missions doesn't make them similar would be equally foolish. All tech has tradeoffs which become apparent in intense scenarios, that a force with less duty might not notice or care much about.

Really, I suppose I take exception to the conflation of Burke vs. Tico and F-35 vs F-22, compared to M2 vs MGS. Burke and Tico are designed to be employed in concert with each other, as are the -22 and the -35.

MGS and Bradley, especially M3, perform essentially the same role in different formations. Comparing them would be more like comparing F-35B and C than it is comparing the -35 and the -22.

>>29899547
Outfit is a casual term for crew or band. Say at the battalion level, how will a very good mechanized infantry unit that can be trusted by command be structured compared to a shittier battalion that can barely be trusted to train? I am asking for general things, not operating procedures at small unit levels.

>>29899268
Pleb

>>29899131
Hi Pierre!

>>29899590
The elite unit is first and foremost staffed and its equipment manned full time, and generally has a much higher proportion of professionals. Shittier ones belonging to the second and third echelons are made up of reservists and conscripts with the former at middling when it comes to presence of active servicemen.

>>29899554
>MGS and Bradley, especially M3, perform essentially the same role in different formations.

This is a much better comparison. Though if you wanted to go further you'd bring up the M2 vs the M3 and not the MGS. The MGS is close to a replacement for the older engineering vehicles with the 165mm cannon that would occasionally follow infantry into heavy areas. It's best to remember that the MGS is meant to work primarily with a SBCT where it's strengths are amplified, when put up against other vehicles in a more conventional mechanized unit like an M1 it's unnecessary.

>>29899630
I see. So all the units that would be first to recieve production T-15s are more or less 'professional' units with a high percentage of veteranhood.

Just for the sake of knowing, as I understand it Russia uses mainly two types of land mechanized units; with and without tanks. Is this more or less correct?

>>29899636
Aye. That's my biggest challenge in civilian enthusiasm, constantly remember to think of the system of systems. I just got a little mad because Tico, Burke, and Zum have a great deal of depth to compare and contrast. Same with Raptor, Lightning, and B-21. But M2 vs M3 vs MGS? Boooooooring. DESU I feel like MGS has much more in common with BMP-3 then it does with new IFVs like Puma, T-15, and the like.

>>29899647
>I see. So all the units that would be first to recieve production T-15s are more or less 'professional' units with a high percentage of veteranhood.
yes. The individual vehicles would be driven and commanded by contract troops however while rank and file conscripts would be desants.
>Just for the sake of knowing, as I understand it Russia uses mainly two types of land mechanized units; with and without tanks. Is this more or less correct?
The motorized rifles and tank divisions(brigades are for fags) yes. But both have tanks, they just differ in proportion and amount of it(and the associated fire support since they believe tank-heavy units don't need that much arty support as compared to lighter units).

>>29898138
>they aren't designed to be MBT
Newfag fuck off, Bradleys were 1v1ing T-72s in Iraq

>>29899720
Dumbfag pls, ground combat against Arabs ain't hardly worth talking about, total mismatch. I'd put even conscripted Russian crews over conscripted Arabs, though not by much.

>Inb4 muh monkey models.

>>29899694
>Men going in the back are conscripts, pros drive and command.
Sensible. Do conscripts often kill their officers in Russia? With the bongs going ham on Brimstone while F-35s sell like hot cakes, the old Fulda Gap scenarios must not be very favorable. If I were a mechanized peasant conscript I'm not sure how much faith I'd have in A2/AD to really keep me safe from NATO interdiction in a WWIII scenario.

>>29899357
Grigorovich orders were cut after the first Gorshkov was floated out, before the Ukrainian crisis. Gorshkov orders became 6 after that.

How stupid can you be to think that there is only one path in missile technology. The Granit has better data link than Bazalt, The Granit has home on jam, The Granit dives down to sea skimming level when it finds out that it has been locked on so that its silhouette is reflected on the ocean surface confusing the terminal radar of the anti air missile. The Vulkan has only range upgrade and the option to dive down to waterline level to hit. Also titanium. Those are safe upgrades to Bazalt compared to the extreme jumps in the Granit.

File: GCV 01.jpg (802KB, 3246x2500px) Image search: [Google]

802KB, 3246x2500px

Hey guys, remember me?

Bradley replacement that was cancelled for budgetary reasons.

Seems big and heavily armoured is the way US and Russia are going.

>>29899282
>americans will never allow germans to considerably increase or rearm their military

Someone is hilariously ignorant.

>>29899522
Both. The small canisters can fire smokes or shrapnel based grenades against ATGMs. The big ones are for kinetics or other big ones. I don't think it can hit something coming in towards its butt.

>>29899830
It was mostly cancelled because it's weight kept ballooning because of congress thinking that a M2 replacement needed to be protected from all angles from everything it might see, including 120mm+ cannon fire.

>>29899799
So...

>USA:
Harpoon > LRASM/JSM > X-51 ?

>Russia:
P-270 > P-500/1000 > P-700 >Brahmos II?

>>29899282
Hate to break it to you man... but have you ever heard of the ISAF?

The US used and supported germany in their efforts in 'rebuilding' afghanistan.

File: P-700-Granit-1S.jpg (259KB, 768x415px) Image search: [Google]

259KB, 768x415px

>>29899857

More like:

P-700 Granit > P-800 Onyx > Kaliber (Various variants) (can be considerd a "P-900") > P1100 Zircon.

>>29899830

That project became hilarious as time moved on. That weight-gain lol.

>>29896325
>good job, Krysha