The US military refuses to adapt its air-launched cruise missiles

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why the fuck would american admirals fear american missiles. its not like its isnt being done by other countries

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>>29550270
How does this make sense when the Russians have been exactly doing that for decades?

>>29550270

Nice source, Gaylord McFagtron.

>>29550306
It's not being done by the USA is it?

Carrier weaknesses can not be acknowledged because politics.

>>29550318
And the Navy has been pretending our ships have adequate defenses against such an attack for decades.

Why don't we have this capability? Air launched cruise missiles from a carrier launched plane would greatly increase range. Yet we do not. Because this capability hits too close to home and reminds the Admirals of the weakness of CSGs

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You're a liar

>>29550373
Or maybe it's because...
Wait for it...
Literally NOBODY else has a Navy worth shit.

>>29550387
Name an American anti ship cruise missile.

You can't.

Why not? We spend billions on lasers and railguns but can't do a sensor/software upgrade for tomahawks?

>>29550478
Harpoon.
LRASM
Mk. 48

>>29550478
lrasm or jsm. depends on who wins

>>29550478
The AGM-158C is dope as fuck

>>29550478
>billions on lasers and railguns
>billions

Not even close. LaWS was strapping fucking six cots lasers together and adding fire control to it.

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>>29550488
LRASM is the only cruise missile out of that list.

It's urgently needed yet has been fiercely resisted since 2009 and turned into a pork boondoggle "stealth" missile. We'll be lucky if it ever sees test firing much less adoption.

Despite the fact that it's sold as an "urgently needed stopgap" it would be easier to upgrade the targeting systems in the current cruise missile inventory.

We should have had an air launched anti ship cruise missile in the 90s at the latest.

It scares the Admirals because it reminds them that CSGs have inadequate defense against this weapon.

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>>29550453

>China
>Navy

>>29550602
It's already been tested you fucking autist

navyfag here, it's a piece of shit, it's been proven it can't keep up with other 5th gen missiles, it has a smaller payload than an exocet therefore it will be spending more time rearming, smaller fuel tank than a harpoon meaning it will have a shorter operational range, lower climb rate than a brahmos, increased maintenance costs, and has an initial overall pricetag of what we could get 2 upgraded Seawolfs for. Overall it's outperformed in the most basic categories that matter the most. Yeah it's stealthy whoopty doo, because if it's spending the majority of its time on deck what good is it?

>>29550602
>LRASM is the only cruise missile out of that list.
The Harpoon is ballistic now? Take that chinks, we have have anti-ship ballistic missile for decades!

>>29550602
>It's urgently needed

Yeah there's that looming naval war that the current force just can't handle

>>29550318
Impressive.

The Russians should deploy this in Ukraine and there would be nothing America could do about it.

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>>29550693
This is what happen when to deploy aircraft to Ukraine.

>>29550675
Harpoon is 100 mile range moron. Not a cruise missile.

>>29550790


cruise missile
noun
noun: cruise missile; plural noun: cruise missiles

a low-flying missile which is guided to its target by an on-board computer.

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>>29550790
Lockheed would be spanking the Gripen right now if they started producing modernized F-16XLs.

a F-16XL with GE F120 thrust vectoring Engine, conformal fuel tanks and all of the electronic updates of a Block 60 F-16 would make it the best single-engine fighter ever made.
it would be cheaper and easier to operate in huge numbers.
face it, nobody wants to touched that bloated F-35 program anymore, the stealth features are wasted when its carrying around external ordinance 75% of the time and most buyers have no use for the carrier or VTOL model. the F-16 is a proven platform that airforces are comfortable with, the problem is that its current airframe is pushed to its limits. adding more room for fuel and equipment while stripping antiquated systems and installing a far more powerful engine will breath new life into the design without costing a trillion dollars.

>>29550790
If it sea-skims, its a cruise missile. There are different range classifications just like ballistic missiles.

>>29550639
You talking about LRASM?

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This thread is pure garbage and should die as garbage.

>>29550850
welcome to /k/

>>29550837
The f16xl with updates should have only been developed as the a20 and replaced the a10. Of course this is bait but hey. F16's should soon see life as qf16's being led by f35's and all will be right wih the world.

>>29550837
>Lockheed would be spanking the Gripen right now if they started producing modernized F-16XLs.
This so much! Do you think a navalised F16XL is plausible?

>>29550846
You are technically correct and also you talk like a fag.

You know what I mean. Long range missiles 500+ mile range. Able to be launched outside the defensive perimeter of a CSG. Context clues.

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>>29550849
Impressive.

Lockheed should deploy these in Ukraine, there would be nothing Mike Sparks could do about it

>>29550270
what the fuck are you even talking about you retard

this place makes my fucking head spin sometimes

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>>29550875
Everyone kill this thread. It has become real shit.

>b...but muh russian missiles

>>29550891
Your English is bad and you and your employer should feel bad. How is the Center going to change minds in the West when you always sound like an outsider?

>>29550790
cruise missiles are missiles that use air-breathing aircraft engines, as opposed to rocket engines.

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>>29550942
Don't feed the ruble collector. Sage and kill.

>>29550946
Flight profile is what makes the difference, not propulsion type.

>>29550488
The mk 48 is a torpedo, you idiot.

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Don't bother with RIDF anymore. This thread has gone to shit.

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>>29550621
Actual testing anon not dog and pony shows to fulfill contractual milestones written by those same contractors who hired the retired Admirals who shook the hands of the soon to retire Admirals who signed off on a million dollar contract they will never see to completion.

>>29550270
Because your strawman doesnt actually exist is the problem.

>>29550478
We used to have the tomahawk B, and the tomahawks are about to gert it again.

>>29550932
Pretty funny how any criticism of Pentagon procurement programs or military leadership is bait.

It's like fucking clockwork.

>>29550891
>You know what I mean. Long range missiles 500+ mile range. Able to be launched outside the defensive perimeter of a CSG. Context clues.
The F-35C's combat radius is 630nmi, plus the reach of it's missiles pushing out 97nmi from that.

Oh and buddy tankers, provision for external drop pods etc before approaching the fact if attacks where a serious risk the number of escorts in a CBG would go up drastically and we'd see wide nets cast by pickets, as opposed top the close formation photo shoots people like you think are battle formations

>>29551095
Don't forget CBARS. The first operational carrier based drone is going to be a dedicated tanker.

>>29550883
I doubt it because the navy hates f16s

>>29550971
>an unmanned self-propelled guided vehicle that sustains flight through aerodynamic lift for most of its flight path and whose primary mission is to place an ordnance or special payload on a target.

https://fas.org/nuke/intro/cm/

>Cruise missile: A missile that is an unmanned, self-propelled weapon-delivery vehicle that sustains flight through the use of aerodynamic lift over most of its flight path. This definition distinguishes cruise missiles from ballistic missiles and remotely piloted airplanes.

https://www.dpc.senate.gov/dpcdoc.cfm?doc_name=fs-111-2-186

not quite, because otherwise anything that didn't have a ballistic profile would be a cruise missile. that is not the case. and the flight profile is going vary on the target and the range.

so it's about aerodynamic lift. i didn't get that part, as i didn't do a good job of describing 'it's basically an airplane, but a missile instead.'

>>29550996
IT'S A CONSPIRACY THEY'RE STEALING MY PRECIOUS BODILY FLUIDS THE F-35 CAN'T FLY LOCKHEED LOCKHEED LOCKHEED

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>>29550942
>encouraging Americans to build long range air launched anti ship cruise missiles

This is a foreign government plot to... accomplish what exactly?

You are the US gov/Lockmart shill. Fuck off.

>>29551195
I think he was implying more that you're a commie trying to spread misinformation.

i just think you're a fucking idiot.

>>29551150
Lol

Why no fucking one adopted my Idea yet?

A Cruise missile that carries AMRAAM missiles

I know this entire thread is a troll, but the only aircraft that can fire AGM-86 is B-52s, and the way New START is written any aircraft that was modified to carry it would be counted as a nuclear bomber.

>>29550602
>It's urgently needed yet has been fiercely resisted since 2009 and turned into a pork boondoggle "stealth" missile.
What are you talking about? The two options for LRASM were developing a hypersonic missile (LRASM-A) or using a quick off the shelf design (LRASM-B). And what was chosen was to take a JASSM (which did have developmental problems but have been solved) and give it a new seeker head.

>>29550693

The Ukranians have been knocking out Russian UAVs for awhile.

Sigh. Here we go again. Third world countries need ballistic anti ship missiles because that is the only way they can attack a US carrier task force with any chance of success. It doesn't mean that the US needs to do the same. The US navy can single handedly deal with ANY other air force and uses its planes to reach out and molest other countries toy boats. If your country is focusing on these missiles, then it means you have a shitty navy. And I'm not even American.

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>>29550270
>In OPs mind, this made sense

>>29550978
Yes, yes it is.
But for any realistic scenerio (read as: sending a bunch of Chink tin cans to the bottom) a Mk 48 would be just as effective as a cruise missile.

Actually, between the three, the only role that can't be filled is uber long range strike at CBGs. You know, the thing that's irrelevant since the only CBGs that aren't American are American allies (Bongs and Frongs) or incompetent (Chinks)

>>29551587
because it's dumb as fuck

>>29550615
this is pretty much what OP is talking about. Americans in general are so scared of being overtaken that they've just covered their ears to rising threats, hoping everything will solve itself, instead of being proactive about it.

>>29551735
Nobody is talking about ballistic missiles. Quit trying to derail this discussion.

>>29551953
Everyone one is still playing in the bathtub while the US still has the pool to itself.

>>29551953
Not Americans. American government. It's an orgy of ass covering, back scratching and arrogance.

>>29550680
Yeah there's that first island chain full of shit that will tear the USN a new asshole.

>>29550373
Maybe it's because there's some black technology that fills the role. Seriously.

They've been stalling on long range anti-ship weapons for ages...

>>29550488
>Mk 48
Wew lad

>>29552220
This. This is like four fifths of all of my replies on every topic to foreigners.

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>>29552481
You've been on a Netflix X-Files binge apparently.

The "black budget" is just graft and corruption. Not complicated. Not mysterious. Not productive in any way.

>>29551773
First of all, the question was if Americans had any AShCMs. While the Mk. 48 would probably be the single most effective weapon in any war, it doesn't answer the question. As such, that anon is completely retarded, and deserves to be yelled at.

Second of all, don't discount the Chinese out of hand. That is an incredibly dangerous line of thinking, one which gets people killed. Instead, you have to give them a healthy respect as to their actual capabilities. While indeed less powerful than the USN, the PLAN can sure as hell give the USN a bloody nose. The PLAN's CSG isn't even formed up yet. They haven't formulated their own doctrine regarding its use. You can't gauge its effectiveness at all.

>>29552718
>what was the bin laden stealth chopper

>>29552840
Covered under MFP-11, but it doesn't show up as a line item.

Cruise missiles are what? $1 million each? 100 anti ship anti ship cruise missiles ($100mil) launched from 600 miles away vs. a CSG ($40bil). Think about it.

>>29550849
It's an F-35 copypasta adapted to LRASM.

You know the one about "it's a lemon, can't turn, can't climb, carries less stuff than an F-15E" one.

>>29552747
I think regionally, the Chinese could gain regional numbers supremacy.

Most of their craft have a decent AShM complement, unlike the US navy (remember, Flight IIa Burkes and newer don't cruise with ANY AShM of any kind).

This will be changed hopefully sooner rather than later due to the navy's refocusing on distributed lethality.

And they are certainly pumping out a lot of ships each year. While not the best, they are certainly a decent entry, and they will likely be able to pull more assets into an instantaneous conflict because they only have a presence in one region, versus the whole world as the US does.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perseus_%28missile%29
http://www.mbda-systems.com/innovation/concept-visions/perseus-2011/

The stealthy Perseus missile is planned to have a range of 300 km reaching speeds of Mach 3. It is powered by a ramjet motor, built around a highly compact Continuous Detonation Wave Engine (CDWE). The missile is 5 metres in length and weighs around 800 kg, with a 200 kg "main" warhead. In addition to the main warhead, Perseus is equipped with 2x 40–50 kg inertially guided effectors (submunitions)[clarification needed] from lateral bays which can be released before the missile hits its target. This unique feature allows Perseus to strike either several targets in the same area, or to strike a singular large one - such as an Aircraft carrier - in several different areas at once for maximum destruction. "In this case, a linear attack pattern could be selected, munitions striking the forward, centre and aft sections simultaneously. If a unitary blast is required, then the effectors remain on board the parent missile to add their blast effect to the central warhead

>>29552937

There's only a handful of cruise missiles in the world that have > 600 mile range, and they are all 2 ton+ and subsonic. If an E-2 picks up the incoming wave at over 100 nautical miles (not that hard), the CSG has over 10 minutes to react and being throwing it's own missiles at the incoming.

With 10 minutes, the escort DDG's have enough time to launch a second wave of interceptors at survivors. I thinks it's more than even money that none of your missiles make it to the CSG, but you did cause them to trade 6 million dollar SM-6 for your 2 million dollar cruise missiles.

>>29553938
I have to agree with everything that you've posted. Still, it seems that even with the PLAN's newest platforms, the USN will retain qualitative superiority for a while yet. The only question that has to be answered is if that qualitative advantage is sufficient to offset the numerical advantage of the PLAN until more assets can be brought forwards. There's a lot of ocean to cross at 20 knots an hour. Which also means those ships that are there will likely be taxed to the limits of their VLS capacity.

>>29553951
Is the US fully commited to subsonic AShM's?
I guess super sonic is unnecessary if the missile is stealthy

>>29552481
More likely they know that these AShM's don't have a hope in hell of actually hitting ships.
Give it a few years and lasers will be doing work on ships too

The only real problem is the lack of US shipbuilding has allowed military shipbuilding to hugely inflate in costs

>>29550306
>Who is Israel
>AND WHY ARE THEY SELLING OUR WEAPONS

>>29554748
>missile
>stealthy

How can a big heat source be stealthy?

>>29554771
heat doesn't show up on radar?

>>29554001
>CSG has over 10 minutes to react and being throwing it's own missiles at the incoming.
SM-6 only. Other must wait when misslie comes into visual range. But it's a final stage of trajectory and misslie boosts to supersonic.

>>29551953
This.

>>29554771
anti-ship missiles are sea-skimming, usually only a few feet over the waves. radar cannot detect things that are "under the horizon," so it only shows up when it is very close

>>29550639

I do like this pasta.

>>29550270
>Harpoon
>SLAM-ER
>LRASM
>Penguin
>Hellfire
and these are just some of the air-launched AShMs currently in service or soon to be in service with the USN/USAF/USMC. If I have to list all the former guided anti-ship munitions I'm going to need at least two posts.

You should probably read a book at some point in your life. You'd sound less dumb on at least one topic.

>>29550837
Sadly inferior to the F-15E.

>>29550270
Wait what?>>29550478


The US spends billions on having a vast SSN fleet for anti ship work, last thin I noticed the only other force who had decent ASuW and SSN capability is the RN and they are the primary allied navy of the USN (indeed they spend so much time on ASuW to compliment the USN from the days of the cold war).

At what stage has the US ssn lead been reduced to the point they need to start worrying about AShM to the extent they want surface vessels in missile spamming range of each other?

>>29550876
>F16's should soon see life as qf16's being shot by f35's and all will be right wih the world.

>>29555558
>sea-skimming is a several decade old concept. And also busted because of AEW aircraft.

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>>29550978

The only reason the USA doesn't go with supersonic for the LRASM is that it would have added another bunch of years until it would be operational.

>>29556811
>stealth antiship missile
>so large that it can't be carried internal by the stealth aircraft F-35.

Sure, the stealth factor was very important for them!

>>29556653
That is retarded. You're retarded for having a screenshot of it.

>>29556811
>>29556825
Supersonic with the same range makes it too large for every extant VLS cell the USN fields, and makes it too large for tactical aircraft to launch. That's it.

Unlike the Russian Navy/PLAN, the USN finds utility in being able to mount and use the same weapon on nearly every major weapons system afloat and in the air.

Also,
>Sure, the stealth factor was very important for them!
No, dipshit, the range is the important part. You don't get fucking 500nmi range from an air-launchable AShM with a big boy warhead without making a big missile. All that range means it doesn't have to be carried internally.

Use your fucking head.

>>29551195
>implying muh cruise missiles and icbms are not 2nd amendment material
>implying all 327 million americans shouldn't each have at least a battery of 100 cruise missiles and mirvs each for continental home defense.
>shull newt bee infrunged

>>29555481
....everything in the US arsenal both past and present must wait til a missuile is in visual range to engage?

I'm waiting to hear back from Oxford Dictionary to coin a whole new word to describe the level of retard you are, OP. See you later.

The large range is quite pointless without tracking data.
Especially if it sea skimming and the own sensors only do have a very limited range just for that fact.