Was Hitler really as bad a military leader as history makes

Dont know about that, Im pretty sure he did nothing wrong though.

>>29380642
Tay?

Are you typing in German?
No?
Then he failed as a commander.

better raising your daughter to be a prostitute than having your son as a lance-corporal

>>29380602
He was pretty bad, got too personally involved in things he didn't understand. Wanted every new plane to have divebombing capability because he had such a boner for it. Made tactical decisions that would have been better left up to the commanders, like not withdrawing from Stalingrad.

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>>29380602
Well, not AS bad as he's made to look.
He is made to be monster, failure and degenrate at every aspect so that no man could ever again think anything good of him.
Victors and history writing and so forth.

>>29380602
In the beginning he made very good decisions, but starting around 1942 he really started to slip unfortunately.
Stalingrad and the loss of the AfrikaKorps were some pretty major blunders.

>>29380602
He was a Corporal that thought he knew more than Field Marshalls and Admirals, his temper kept people from standing up to him and telling him to step back and let the experts do the fighting.

>>29380602
He wasn't half as bad as people make him out to be, strategically speaking.

Nobody can do every job as commander that Hitler tried to do completely by himself, and that's probably the biggest fault he had.

>>29380602
But I agree, in the Mannerheim dialogue he's pretty sane and reasonable.

History doesn't like remembering those types of things though.

>>29380829
He was a pretty solid painter/illustrator, but his works were pretty boring during a time where artists were trying to get away from life/still painting.

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>>29380995
I think his paintings are wounderful.

>>29381032
I'd have let him into art college.

>>29380995
and he was able to make Germany great power again in a very short time.

>>29380602

>Attacking Russia during the Western War
>Not going straight for Moscow, but instead for Stalingrad because of his hate boner
>not pulling out of stalingrad
>Killing all his generals
>Not allowing himself to be woken up so he give permission to deploy panzers to the beach landing sites
>making capable generals ask him for permission to deploy panzers to beach landing sites

no he shite

>>29381032
because you're a pleb with shit/no taste. He fails at depth and scale as well as proportion, everything looks flat and some of the structures are implausible, and not in an abstract way, they're just... impossible.

>>29381084
Not him, but damn. How pretentious are you?

>>29381084
Bet he didn't even paint the picture with his own blood & shit huh!

>>29380917

AfrikaKorps was his fault how? Even so, that's chump change to the overall picture.

Stalingard was the right call because they needed to secure their left flank. Not his fault his commanders fed into the meatgrinder.

So you guys admire what he's done?

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>>29381098
Here's another of Hitlers """art""" work to further iterate my points.

>>29381082

>memes memes and more memes

Case Blue was the correct offensive. Moscow would have been Kursk on a larger scale in 1942.

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>>29381103
>Point out flaws in Hitler's """"art""""
>WOW YOU MUST BE INTO THAT NEW LIBERAL ART LOLOLOLOL

>>29381113
he's the hero we need but don't deserve

>>29381084
I agree with this. It looks wonky and wrong.

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>>29381117

Looks fine to me. Better than pic related.

>>29380602
On an individual level he was a hero but as a wartime leader he was ridiculously inept.

>>29381113
He fought the good fight, unfortunately in the end evil was too strong
Too many fools in the west believing the "big lie" of the judeo-marxists

>>29381109
Simple matter of it was they didn't have the strength to take BOTH the Caucasus and Stalingrad with their army group split in two. They also missed their chance to take Stalingrad without a fight when they had the panzers sent South to help with army group A; this slowed army group B enough to where the Soviets outside of and within Stalingrad had some time to get their shit together.

>>29381127
I mean a war hero in WW1, not in the political sense.

>>29380930
And it turned out, he was right a lot of the times.

>>29381137
murder millions
cause your own country to be cut in half
lose badly
"the good fight" was the allies BTFOing his austrian ass

>>29381126
I love this strawmanning

>You don't like Hitlers art so you must support this dogshit new wave crap

No. You retard.

>>29381144

>they didn't have the strength to take BOTH the Caucasus and Stalingrad with their army group split in two

I agree with that and the part after. But seriously, was that Hitler's fault? That's operational level stuff that's beneath him.

Generals are there to make shit work and make sure roads aren't clogged.

Remember, his generals also told him to go for Moscow in 1942, which was retarded. They undermined the plan from the beginning.

>>29381156

I didn't say anything like that. Stop projecting.

>>29381154
It was them against the world
In the end the numbers told

>>29380659
Kek

>>29380930
A lot of those accounts are from people with a vested interest in looking good

>>29381158
Splitting Army Group South wasn't that bad in itself, and sending Army Group B's panzers south to Army Group A wasn't bad either...what was bad was getting frustrated that one army group was moving too slowly and sending the panzers back and forth repetitively.

And yes, it's kind of like work, in a way: that if you come to hate your boss enough, you'll let yourself do a shitty job, even if your jobs important; and you'll stand in their way just because you hate them. I do think Hitler was undermined to a degree that effected the war, but probably because of his own doing: you can't treat generals the way Hitler did and still expect good work out of them.

>>29381149
Not enough of the times.

>>29381219
Or maybe some of them were traitors

>>29381238
After being pushed far enough, yes.

>>29380602
Wow this thread totally seems like it belongs in /k/ instead of /pol/

>>29381219

*affected

Yeah look I'm not saying he was a military genius, but it's not like Germany had an easy war to win and he fucked it up. The odds against them were huge and they actually did pretty well, all things considered.

>>29380602
Mediocre military ability, decent politician i suppose.

>>29381260
>*affected
You still got my point.

I never said they didn't do a good job in spite of being overwhelmed, but I'll also say that they don't give "best effort" ribbons to countries that lost a war.

>>29380602
Hitler's doctor had him on all kinds of shit, he had a neurological disease (or so they believe).

He was practically a fucking pincushion for narcotics.

>>29381084
This is correct. I mean, he isn't unskilled and I'm sure he could have been good if he'd gotten real training or schooling. But even >>29381032 has glaring issues.

Artists are notorious for shitting on eachother, correct? Was he REALLY too bad at it to get better, probably not.

What exactly was he told when he tried to get into that college?

>>29381280

Yeah I didn't mean to downgrade your post because of the incorrect word choice. Was just pointing it out so you can learn from it :)

And I think we're in agreement overall.

>>29381294
>What exactly was he told when he tried to get into that college?
Not him, but I've heard both that he had issues drawing people (but not things), and his style wasn't modern enough.

Neither of which are incurable.

Noone in the west would stand up to fight against communism
It's unfortunate that a communist was a president of the USA, things might have been different otherwise

>>29380829
But you're wrong.

THA SOUTH lost the war to the north in the American Civil War, but their guys are fucking heroes that fought for states rights. The losers wrote history in this instance.

>>29381347
Do you really think the losers wrote the history of the civil war when the confederate flag is still considered ebil racism by most idiots in the US?

>>29381337

Agreed

>>29381347
>The losers wrote history in this instance.
And I was under the impression that the Union won.

>>29381284
or was he realy?
It's allready known that he did not kill him self at the Berlin. There is reason to believe that he was still alive at 60's and that the real nazis are anything but extinct.

>>29381384
[Citation needed]

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>>29381384
>where we're going we don't need brains

>>29380602
He fucked up the war for Germany.

>>29381384
Yeah, they're just in hiding, biding their time and waiting to unleash an army of vampires upon the western world.

He was good early on but then got greedy
/thread

>>29381422


>Event Horizon
Man i love that movie.

>>29381399
https://www.intellihub.com/declassified-secret-fbi-files-prove-hitler-escaped-to-argentina-in-1945/
There are some actual studies about this, but as unreliable source as this is, it's about what I was refering to.

>>29381473
You can't /thread your own post, nigger.

>>29381384
Hue.
What do real nazis do nowadays?

>>29381727
>What do real nazis do nowadays?
They're waiting for the perfect time to strike, obviously.

>>29380995
>>29381032
His paintings were the kind that if someone gave me one, I'd hang it in the toilet sinceI can't throw it away.
>>29380829
We're not talking about his personality, just his military ability (pro-tip: it was lacking). Read proper history books, they give a much more balanced view, even Germa films give him a better view than you just gave.
He was still a collosal asshat, even if he did like animals.

>>29381137
>people in the West actually supported the Communists, let alone liked them
Do you not remember that entire 50+ period of time where we were in a stalemate with them? Remember McCarthy? NATO?
No, we liked the Soviets as far as it suited us, just like the Germans did.

>>29381126
Put a white line in the center and you could sell it for ~$44 million.

>>29380690
I think he was fine in the beginning, and then started to get paranoid and stopped trusting his advisers. To be fair, in his position I would be paranoid too.

>>29381829
Remember when Mccarthy accomplished almost nothing, was hated in the media, and eventually censured?

What do you think the progressivism was about during the 40's, 50's and 60's?
Communists fought a civil war in cuba for years, with a commie loving republican president who allowed the communists to win.

>>29381337
>no one fought against Communism
Finland? The West during the Russian Civil War? Nationalists in Spain? Mussolini? The fact that the Russians would have gone to shit without the catalyst of Hitler's invasion? The fact that if not for the Nazis, the Cold War wouldn't have happened?

>>29381473
>good early on
Lucky early on.
FTFY

>>29381867
>Communists taking over Cuba
>mattering in the grand scheme of things
>implying that McCarthy accomplishing nothing has anything to do with my point
My point was that clearly the West had no love lost with the Soviets and to imply otherwise is fucking stupid.

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>>29380602
Our A.I. seems to think he would have done a fine job.

>>29381032
>>29381117
The perspective is quite noticeably off but otherwise they are pretty good.
I'm sure if he used a vanishing point (which he would have learnt in art school) there wouldn't be a problem.
I give it a 7/10

>>29381887
>if not for the Nazis, the Cold War wouldn't have happened
I think it would have, it just would have been headed by germans on the anti-commie side instead of yanks.

>>29381917
>What is the cuban missile crisis

If the US had provided the slightest bit of aid to anti-communists throughout the 40's & 50's, so much evil might have been averted.

When mccarthy names communists in the state department, and those communists remain in their position, how is that not loving commies?

Where did I ever say SOVIETS? I said communists.

The dominant establishment position back then was pro-communism.

>>29381934
>7/10
For a total fucking amateur. Yeah, art school would have helped.

Actually, why would you reject someone from an art SCHOOL because they are not yet good at art? Was this the prevailing sentiment at most schools available to him?

Is it still the prevailing sentiment?

>>29381976
>If the US had provided the slightest bit of aid to anti-communists throughout the 40's & 50's,
Are you serious m8?

>>29381976
It is possible that McCarthy named actual communist when he singled out certain people of power, but he fucked it up by crazily muddying the waters himself by calling out large sections of the military, I mean rank and file, as commies. That was dumb.

>>29382017
Well, the president himself said they wouldn't fire anyone for being a communist.
It wasn't a crime to be a communist, so there wasn't much mccarthy could do.

>>29382094
I never implied he could do anything. I'm just saying he ruined his own credibility.

>doubles advocate
Maybe he was manipulated into ruining his own credibility because he was naming actual traitors.

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>ITT: Idiots with no idea what they're talking about judge a man with hindsight on their side.

>>29382258
>not listening to your experienced, previously victorious generals and thinking that you, a man who never got above Lance-Corporal, know more than they do in military matters
>there's no way that it would be obviously retarded back then, you'd have to wait for 70 years before it became clear that this was fucking stupid

>>29381785
From the states I presume.

>>29382281

>Bush orders invasion of Afghanistan

LOL FUCKING IDIOT HE'S NEVER BEEN A FOUR STAR GENERAL

>Obama orders drone strikes

LOL FUCKING IDIOT HE'S NEVER BEEN A FOUR STAR GENERAL

>any leader orders anything ever

LOL FUCKING IDIOT HE'S NEVER BEEN A FOUR STAR GENERAL

>>29382451
If those leaders continually reject the advice of their experienced military advisers, and the results are bad, would you call them smart?

>>29381897
Luck had nothing to do with it anon. In the first half of the war Hitler was mentally stable, listened to his generals, and blitzkrieg was really, REALLY effective. It was only when things went sour that he started sacking generals and making more & more strategic decisions on his own. Towards the end I understand he was even issuing orders to armor devisions that didn't even exist or had already been lost. The man could not handle failure in the slightest. Everything had to go as planned, everything had to be perfect, and it was right up until he decided to ignore his generals and not push into Moscow.

>>29382618
*And everything was perfect until he ignored his generals and didn't push into Moscow.

>>29382628

>And everything was perfect until he ignored his generals and didn't push into Moscow.

In summer 1942? It would have been Kursk on a massive scale. Case Blue was the right decision.

>>29382618
>The man could not handle failure in the slightest. Everything had to go as planned, everything had to be perfect
For an austrian, he sure sounds german.

>>29382782
Is it a stereotype I'm not aware of?

>>29382822
Autistic germans?

>>29380642
Captain "zergrush but lol our supply chain is horses" Hitler? The guy that decided to invade Russia in the spring? That counted on an air resupply in December in the city named after the enemy leader? That said no bombs would hit Germany before deciding to bomb London? Face it bro Hitler didn't contribute anything positive to world history and he'll always be the villain