http://breakingdefense.com/2016/03/ missile-defense-for-tank

>>29210263

It would be pretty ironic if Raytheon got the contract considering they are the reason it needs to exist in the first place. If not for providing the missiles, then for demonstrating to potential adversaries just how useful those missiles are.

>>29210312
What can they say? They've created their own market.

Impressive

Welcome America to Chinese technology of the 80's.

B-but muh all american quick kill that has never been used in battle and is 3x more expensive should be the victor!

File: quick_kill.jpg (36KB, 420x315px) Image search: [Google]

36KB, 420x315px

>>29210743
It is a better system, including reasons not listed in the article like being omnidirectional and capable of simultaneous intercepts.

Inb4 the VLS tank shitposter.

>>29210788
And it's spent it's life on a shelf, not on a tank. It's garbage until it's battle tested.

>>29210855
That's nice, but it does not change that Trophy is significantly less capable than Quick Kill.

>>29210788
the future of tank combat will be like naval combat, all missile fights from beyond visual range

>>29210886
That's nice, but it does not change that Quick Kill is gathering significantly more dust in a warehouse somewhere than Trophy.

>>29210788
Cites for Trophy not being omnidirectional and capable of simultaneous intercepts? It's capable of both according to the Rafael website. It also has a medium and lightweight version, while Quick Kill cannot currently be mounted on light vehicles.

File: 1397357537755.jpg (79KB, 496x515px) Image search: [Google]

79KB, 496x515px

>>29210945
>mfw Trophy was rejected by America back in 2010 and has collected just as much dust on our shelves

File: merkava_4m.jpg (432KB, 1280x853px) Image search: [Google]

432KB, 1280x853px

>>29210971
>Cites for Trophy not being omnidirectional and capable of simultaneous intercepts?

Single shot launchers with limited arcs.

>while Quick Kill cannot currently be mounted on light vehicles

[citation needed]

>>29210978
>mfw nobody gives a fuck what you put in your warehouses
>mfw Trophy has over 100 flawless battle engagements
>mfw Quick Kill has 0 (zero)

>>29210312

Hillary gave away TOW-2As to every sand nigger in the world that promised to fight Assad.

>>29211284
>mfw Trophy has over 100 flawless battle engagements
>Trophy is “just typical Israeli overhype and ineffectiveness. It was a great killer of accompanying infantry,”

>>29210855
You wanna explain to me why we should be spending the time and money to equip tanks that aren't being deployed?

>garbage until battle tested
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAA

>>29210894
Why is it not like that already?

As is, even Iran can make a TOW, and it outranges the 120mm.

>>29210894
But anon, unlike the ocean or sky on land theres things like hills, mountains, forests, buildings, or any number of natural obstacles to get in the way.

>>29211636
No it doesn't.

>>29211636
APFSDS is easier to carry in large amounts, requires no midcourse guidance, is generally too fast to be reliably, if at all, intercepted by hard kill, and are completely immune to soft kill APS. Additionally, ATGM usefulness at range is limited by terrain. Shots that made full use of said range are few and far between in realistic conditions.

>>29211738
>generally too fast
That's putting it lightly for a 50lb sabot traveling over 5000 feet per second

>>29211843
Jeez, they're really 50 pounds?

>>29211921
The entire thing, shell, propellant, sabot and penetrator weigh about 50lbs

Or so i've heard, but the penetrator does not weigh 50 lbs.

>>29211940
You are right, I misread. But still, it's 22lb of DU.

>>29211965
I mean jesus, that's still 22 pounds of DU in a dart the size of a candlestick. A 5000 feet per second.

>>29211669
the ocean has a horizon too
drones/UAV's/UGV's providing targetting data will be the future

>>29211738
Give it a few years and APFSDS will be reliably intercepted as well.
Then it'll be, "we need KE missiles who go faster & have far more energy than a sabot shell"

>>29212025
Hilariously, no. You're grossly overestimating the general speed of tech development. First generation APS are just now entering service. You can't begin development on an improvement when you have no idea where the system struggles because it has yet to see use outside of controlled testing.

Try at least a decade after initial implementation. At least.

>>29212025
If your already in a position where you can loiter aircraft over your enemy long enough to spot and provide targeting data, why wouldn't you just bomb them instead, or use artillery.

This is the future we're talking about so by then you can also assume countermeasures for thermal imagers will be wide spread so even spotting them won't be that easy.

>>29212094
Hard kill APS is a small bolt-on system, its not new airplane or vehicle that will get stuck in bureaucratic hell/program delays.

Where are you guys seeing 22lb? I see an M855A1 at 4.6kg/10lb for the projectile sans sabot at defense-update .com

>>29212137
M855A1? That's a 5.56 ammo

You mean M829A1?

>>29212132
Do you have any proof of a system in any stage of development that can engage KE rounds with the same reliability as with ATGMs? Because you need to keep in mind that even ATGMs are not stopped 100% of the time, and KE rounds are a harder target in every respect.

You've provided no evidence that this sort of huge increase in capability is as imminent as you suggest.

>>29212207
Indeed I do. Fingers on autopilot

>>29212268
i'd post a youtube link of the ukrainian zaslon intercepting KE penetrators...but maybe you should learn for yourself

>>29212322
zaslon had little effect on the penetrator

>>29212322
You make the claim, you provide the evidence. Post the video or GTFO. Then we'll talk about things hit:miss ratio, engagement interval, total interceptor capacity, and other factors that compound to make APS a revolution in tank protection, not a magic shield.

>>29210263
>Looks like America will adopt Trophy after all.
Fuck Trophy.
http://www.gd-ots.com/armament_systems/gs_aps_iron_fist.html
>Protects against the full spectrum of threats: anti-tank rockets, ATGMs, HEAT and kinetic energy tank rounds
>Dramatically reduces kinetic energy rod penetration in heavy vehicles to absorbable level by breaking or deflecting the angle of attack of the oncoming threat
>Protection against short range anti-tank rockets in open and urban environments
>Wide angle protection with minimal weight and integration requirements Safety Measures
>Blast Interceptor assures minimal collateral damage

>>29211435
>>Trophy is “just typical Israeli overhype and ineffectiveness. It was a great killer of accompanying infantry,”
So, how many grunts it killed so far? Can you provide sources?

>>29213890
Can you provide sources that it has 100 flawless battle engagements?

>>29213890
I wasn't the one who claimed it. It has something like 10-12 IIRC.

>>29214045
Meant for>>29213890

>>29210945
>>29210886

Both are worse than AMAP-ADS

>>29210263
Was Drodz deployed in Ukraine? From the way they describe their missiles veering off it just seems that it was Shtora.

>Today, updated Drozd systems have proved highly effective in Ukraine, says Potomac Foundation president Philip Karber, who’s just returned from visiting Ukrainian armored units. Drozd uses a miniaturized radar to detect incoming missiles and interceptor mini-rockets to blast them with pellets. Karber writes he has “interviewed several Ukrainian anti-tank ATGM gunners, who have complained bitterly about the ‘magical shield’ that sends their AT-5 guided missiles off in the sky or to the ground out of control just as the missile is on track to hit the tank.”

Is the US army deploying enough vehicles to warzones to warrent this upgrade? I thought America was winding down after the two never ending campaigns in the desert.

>>29214461
America has an ABCT on rotation in Europe as well as equipment for 1-2 more pre-positioned.

>>29210263
Can Trophy protect against APFSDS like Quick Kill could?

>A bloo bloo bloo APS is dangerous to infantry that are standing next to a tank in combat

Yeah, I'm sure a RPG flying into the side of a tank wouldn't hurt everyone around it either

>>29215973
>Missing the point this hard.
Hard kill has inherent limitations, just like soft kill, ERA, and passive armor. Saying it's better to have it than not, while correct, does nothing productive. Everyone already knows, try saying something meaningful.

Trophy will be chosen because of the price difference.

>>29213890
> So, how many grunts it killed so far?
None.
> Source
I was an assistant to the SouthCom's intelligence officer in the General's war room during Protective Edge. Any casualty and any activation of the Trophy (people were interested to how well it works) were reported there- and this reports never intersected.


Most of what people say are just speculations based on untrue or exaggerated stories (including the "100 flawless engagements), but providing any true information and observation on the aspects being discussed will be a severe OpSec.

But to sum up what I can say: it's a great system that works very well, even "flawlessly" as far as the average grunt is concerned. The talk about people getting hurt by shrapnel from the interception are based on conclusion based on the publicly known way that the system intercepts projectiles, and E-rumors about such accidents- both of which, do not match reality.
Yet, Trophy is a complex and advanced system- which means it'll never be truly flawless. The Arab intelligence effort, and by that I mean a one combined to all nations/organizations that are hostile to Israel, focuses on finding this flaws and planning on how to exploit them.

>>29216831
>>29216338
The mounting bracket for ERA on the sides of an Abrams turret is ideal, if Rafael can make a modular package I can't see them failing.