Would Germany have been better off if instead of fucking about

>>28054297
they would

Hitlers entire "Superweapon" and "Fuck heavy armor" idea was what lost them the war.

However fucking awesome that 80cm Rail gun was, fuck was it impractical other than a horror weapon.

Germany coulda done better with some subtlety desu imo senpai

>>28054297
Germany would have been better with actual generals being in charge of the weapons development and tactics than hitler overruling everything

>>28054353
>Hitlers entire "Superweapon" and "Fuck heavy armor" idea was what lost them the war.
Its what saved them from being nuked.

But on the other hand he soviets would have gotten its shit pushed in even harder and eastern Europe wouldn't be commie for the next 50+ years.

>>28054297
Germany would have been better off not signing a alliance with Imperial Japan.

They would have been better off not waging a air war with Britain.

They would have been better off using the time and resources preparing for Operation Barbarossa.

They would have been better off focusing Operation Barbarossa on two army fronts towards Ukraine and Leningrad and not bothered pushing towards Stalingrad, cutting the Soviets off their breadbasket and oil and establishing defenses and consolidating more forces and supplies. By 1942-43, give back independence to France, Czechoslovakia, Poland and Belgium and sue for peace settlements.

Waiting for the panther kind of lost them Kursk.

Even post war examples used by the french had a final drive that gave out after 125 km.

>>28054297
They would've been better off trying to assassinate Stalin. He was the major thing holding the USSR together during and after WW2, and removing him from the picture would've cause huge disorder, if not outright collapse. Even if one of his generals took charge, losing him would crush moral on the eastern front, and that would have been devastating.

On the flip side, Germany was kinda fucked from the beginning. Russia is too damn big to hit crucial targets quickly without running out of supplies, and the distribution of cities means that the upper command could just fly to the other side of the Urals (Like they were planning on doing). On top of that, with the way Soviet Russia was run, beating their army into submission wouldn't be an option, and a constant war of attrition is just completely out of the question.


The only possible way I could see Hitler winning? Not invading Poland. Allying with France and Britain (They were pretty anti-commie) and organizing a coalition of Europe against Russia. They don't lose valuable troops fighting France, their airforce remains intact, and they aren't forced to try to defend against a naval invasion. Hitler's crusade against Stalin gains valuable troops, materials, and manufacturing, and overall everyone's happier because they're united against a big, obviously evil target.

>>28054297

The Panther was a direct result of the T-34, and Hitler didn't know about the T-34 when the Tiger was first proposed.

>>28054297
here is the thing, panther was a really really really bad tank and i am saying this without considering its mechanical problems

if you wanna know more just let me know, as i am drunk as sailor and dont feel writing love letter for no one

>>28054297
No.

Germany would have been better off just upgunning and uparmouring the Panzer IV while simplifying the design to quicken production and making more StuGs assault guns.

Not have bothered with making panthers, tigers to begin with.

>>28054297
By December 5, 1941, it was too late: no tank was gonna recover that lost time/resources/men/chances.

>>28055747
By the time the PzIV was upgraded to the "H" variant, it was both the best it could be, and at the tank's limit concerning its fundamental design.

Had that Henkel he 111 never panic dropped its' mine and Britain making a counter subsequently, would Germany have beaten beaten UK until the US came?

It would better off not to abandon the Ural bomber project and continue to built for strategic bombing Russia war resources/

>>28055695

>TD gun
>On a heavy weight chassis
>Awesome mobility that needs to get toned down to avoid catching fire or breaking down
>Paper side armour
>Shit tier turret in almost all aspects
>Meme suspension that gets jammed with mud any other day
>Overly long gun is a problem in urban areas
>The usual defects of having a muzzle brake
>Flat trajectory of the KwK 42 and its low HE filler make it ill-suited at attacking fortifications
>No mid-range periscope for the gunner
>Worse armour than, say, the IS-2
>Often sabotaged

The final drives meme is actually rather overrated, by a few tricks (skipping third gear) it held a lot longer, and later in the war a report sent to the German armour board (read: Guderian) said that the Panther was as reliable as the Pz. IV.

>>28055747

The IV simply showed its age and became overweight with the late war mods. I feel that the Daimler Panther would have been the better choice.

>>28055851
You mean right before Goering pooped his pampers and demanded London be bombed, instead of British airfields?

Maybe. I'd personally rate it at a probably not/10.

>>28055814
>>28055886
The problem was, if they focused on designing a new tank, testing it out and rectify all of its flaws, they have to retool the factories and setback wartime production, already of which they were woefully outclassed by the Allies.

What they should have done was modify and streamlined the design of the Panzer IV, making it bigger, adding more armour, a bigger turret ring, better suspension and engines whilst having at least 1/3rd of its component compatible with the Panzer IV. This way factory retooling is kept at a minimal possible time, spare parts and logistics are much more standardized and streamlined. and they would have more reliable tanks available to them later in the war.

>>28055886
I hear they were concerned about how much its silhouette looked like a T-34 from a distance.

If they improved its looks then they'd prolly have a better chance since it had a diesel engine and rear drive.

Nazi Germany fucked itself by invading the USSR before finishing off GB and then went balls deep at Stalingrad. The rest of the war was just blood oozing out of mutilated Aryan anus.

A fatally flawed strategy makes tactics irrelevant.

>>28057312
This is true, but we can just rephrase as "what decisions tank wise would have helped the most to stave off total defeat and possibly sue for peace"

No sir, and you wish.

Panther's armor and engineering maybe superior as the tiger tank, but Soviet mass production and American's tank doctrine can still beat the shit out of Panther.

And even Late-war Later T34-85 Models and M26 Pershing can defeat it as well.

>>28054297
Not really. They served a purpose, but heavy tanks still served their purpose as well, especially against infantry and anything else that wasn't a tank. Panthers were fairly focused in the scope of what they could do, but they were pretty good at it at the time.

>>28057439
How about inventing the high-low pressure system a couple years earlier and up-gunning the IVs/Stugs with 81mm or 100mm HE/HESH/HEAT guns?

>>28054297
They would have been better off with stugs

>>28054297
They would be better off. But they would have still lost.

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>>28054297

I think the better question to ask is between the Bf 109 and Fw 190, which would they have been better focusing on, rather than splitting resources between the two?

>>28060118
Thing about the FW 190 is that it's performance at altitude dropped off noticeably. Wouldn't have matter too much in the east but in the west it would have been quite a liability.

>>28055886
>The final drives meme is actually rather overrated
They had to be very careful driving the things as any kind of rough shifting would do them in. Also, 150 kliks and it was time for an overhaul, the design of which made it a pain in the ass to do.

Any WW2 Germany hypothetical that doesn't involve "fire Goring" is a futile exercise.

>>28054353
hurrrdurrrr! let's completely forget that armours were rapidly developing throughout the war durrr!
Surely this t-26 or pz1 is heavy enough to last the whole war unchanged!

>>28055886
>what is the pantherII and e-series?
That is why op said they should have focused on improving the design.

>>28054353

Eh, I disagree.

Hitler's refusal to accept that long range jet bombers were impractical and useless when Germany lacked the ability to gain air superiority, and his attempt to kill jet interceptors like the Me-262 killed Germany by assuring that Luftwaffe air power would completely collapse.

The only reason Germany had any Vogels at all is because Göring outright lied about the project and kept it hidden from everyone.

>>28054353
>Hitlers entire "Superweapon" and "Fuck heavy armor" idea was what lost them the war.
Hitlers idea of winning the war with a one trick pony army lost them the war. And that he conitnued to intervene with his generals, what caused the defeat at moscow. And that the Nips refused to help in the far east. Stuff like what tanks they used or what planes are just details.

>>28061163

This. Germany could have had tanks as heavy as it wanted if it only had the air superiority to keep the skies safe, something that a few thousand Me-262s running interception and CAS in 1942 would have guaranteed.

Even panthers cost too much

>>28054297
But Panther suspension was completely fucked up.
They needed something like Sherman or T-34.
Pz3 with a firepower of Pz4.

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>>28054984
>By 1942-43, give back independence to France, Czechoslovakia, Poland and Belgium
>give back independence to Poland

>>28061294
Poles would have taken it but i'm pretty sure at lest half a nation would demand to switch national industry to war time so the only thing that would come off Polish factory lines would be tanks not cars. Entire country would probably switch into full war mode, preping for revenge attack or to prepare for 2nd invasion cause who normal invades you and then gives you independence? Or Poles might have worked out some treaty with Germany just so they could get some of them Kresy Wschodnie back.

>>28060918
Are you actually implying that the maus was practical? He never said don't develop weapons he just said hitler had a hard on for retarded wonder weapon bullshit like train artillery.