> The AK47 is more reliable than the M16! XDD > 2015 >

No. Just history.

>>28041165
women are pretty savage to be truthful

>>28041165
I think they're just confusing "more reliable" to, "can stand more neglect"

>>28041165
Vietnam.

>>28041165
>implying not

>>28041165
The 60's. In a nutshell,

>DoD orders new guns
>guns designed with a buffer balanced for powder type A
>DoD tries to save money, buys ammo using powder B
>guns run like shit, what a shock
>Colt redesigns the buffer to fix reliability problems
>reputation persists because first impressions etc.

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From stories that were the nightmarish initial issuing of the m16.
>No chrome
>shit ammo
>No cleaning kit because lol space age
>The brass having a raging hard on for the m14
At the time the AK was noticeably more reliable. Now the difference is negligible at most.
>mfw ever this shitty fucking thread appears.

>>28041191
This

>>28041211
This.

God points on both hands.


Here's a saying I like to use:
>a good AR will last a lifetime
>a good AK will last several

This is generally a good thing, I mean, the more durability the better, but unless you're a goatfucker or a complete clown, its more than reasonable to exchange some resilience for performance.

>>28041211
We've been using the AR platform for a little over half a decade. Everyone I met in the military has never complained about their rifle. Have you met anyone whose complained about how terrible the AR is? Honestly still think it's only a meme that noguns believe.

>>28041259
Whoops I meant half a century

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>>28041212
>negligible at most
you're still risking a major malfunction if you get any sand or shit into an AR. Also the numerous small-scale, tight-fit parts in the platform = lots of things can go wrong and jam / break the gun.

>>28041296
It is true. AR is not a peasant rifle.

>>28041259
>Have you met anyone whose complained about how terrible the AR is?
Not him, but I got a friend who's into Practical shooting (3 gun sport), and he plain out stated that he dislikes ARs. According to him, they feel like toys, and every shot makes it feel like there'd be a spring jumping around in the gun.

He recently got to try my AKM for the first time, and he fell in love with it.

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>>28041296
The FAL lost to the galil.
Bullshite.

>>28041356
FAL isn't such reliable workhorse as you'd like to think. You gotta keep that bitch lubed, or it will fail.

Galil's a fucking AK. Obviously it's gonna win.

>>28041325
Well, that's recreational shooting. In a firefight I think I'd much prefer something that feels and kicks like a toy over a mighty big piston fucking back and forth.

>>28041296
> Our troops fought war on terrorism for over 10 years in sand nigger environment
> Never have I heard, "My sandy gun is broken because sand!"

>>28041377
>His buddy complained over gun not having enough recoil
> What

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>>28041259
I'm the anon you're replying to. This is my 20" Colt. I've never had a malfunction in it. I was just explaining what happened when they were first adopted that lead to people thinking the AR has reliability problems.

Also, yes, I've known several vets who hated their issued M16's, including my father. Usually it's National Guard or USMC vets who get issued a beat to shit, shot out rifle, who are expected to shoot 62gr or heavier bullets down a 1/12 pitch bore with nearly no rifling left to qualify, or who are tired of having to clean out the gun after a week of running blanks. Doesn't mean it's a bad rifle though.

>>28041377
each their own, but I'd prefer a sturdy, robust tool that won't stop running. Plus even 7.62x39 AK's recoil is laughably low.

>>28041255
>>a good AR will last a lifetime
>>a good AK will last several
I get that you are trying to make a different point here but I must respectfully disagree.
When it comes to longevity an AR with replaceable parts will last forever where as the receiver rails on a AK will fail around 100,000 rounds. The AR-15 receiver will go through broken bolts, shot out barrels, but barring kabooms and the like an AR receiver will easily last several lifetimes.
See the henderson defense post are barfcom, that guys business goes through crazy round counts and has made a bunch of fascinating discoveries about high round count firearms.

>>28041296
I have personal experience with this. Me and a buddy went shooting at his cabin in -10f, I had my vepr and he had his colt 6920. We had the guns in the back of my truck on the way up so they were both good and cold when we got there.

vepr - no malfunctions. even shot it packed with snow for shits and giggles and still worked perfectly

ar - would not fire. light strike on every round. had to take it into the truck and warm it up for it to run.

>>28041410
That is true, long stroke weapons are best at dealing with cold weather.

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>>28041296

>hk91
>charging handle broke off

>>28041165
>2015
>having a gun that shots where it eats

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>>28041436
Well meme'd.

>>28041255
>a good AK will last several
only if you take care of it clean it after every shootings
the standard ammo is loaded with super corrosive powder i'm told and it fouls up the gas piston pretty bad.

>>28041408
What about that American made AK clone that increased the receiver metal thickness to 1.6mm from the original 1mm?

Will that one last lifetimes?

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>>28041165
>2015
>still caring what people who have utterly retarded opinions think
As for the reliability myth? I blame Dugan.

>>28041165

Well, it's true.

>>28041296
Do you have the last page or two of that document?

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>>28041544
I don't blame Dugan, his video even say they are satirical and for mature people who can separate humor from reality.

>>28041259
7 years is a long time.

>>28041489
>standard ammo
And which standard would this be?
There are tons of different loads of 7.62x39/5.45x39.
>>28041408
The barrel of an AR is harder to make than a stamped sheet metal receiver for an AK that can be replaced by removing the barrel (something easy to do in a situation where it's being refurbished at an Arsenal), chopping off the old rivets and sticking all the old trunnions on a new reciever.

>>28041165
Try not cleaning your AK and AR for a month and see who comes out with less malfunctions. I'll wait.

>>28041563
that's all I got. I think it shows the whole article, at least the conclusions.

>be conscript
>get 20 year old hand me down standard issue Canadian bootleg M16 that has been used and abused by hundreds of noguns conscripts before me
>works fine

>>28041622
Looks like it, the last page just includes some shilling

We later spoke with a factory representative of one of the companies involved, who was very disturbed at our results. He called his engineering department, who assured him that if the weapon was cleaned, then lightly lubricated with a synthetic lubricant, it would function properly. The entire purpose of the evaluation was to see if any of the weapons could stand up to the neglect and direct abuse we gave it. If all had failed, we would have felt that our test was unrealistic. The fact that four of the weapons performed 100% of the time shows that some are suited and some are unsuited to a cold climate. In addition, police officers are notorious for neglecting their equipment, even though their lives depend on it. There were many other features considered in deciding which weapon we preferred. Weight, balance, trigger pull, sights, ease of operation, cost, availability of options, ease of maintenance, etc. were all considered. The clear winner and our first choice was the Galil .223. It was 100% reliable, accurate, and easy to shoot. It has the best night sights available and an excellent folding stock. It has a reciprocating bolt handle, which can be drawn to the rear then pushed forward to lock a round in the chamber. This is a very desirable feature when the weapon is frozen or very dirty. The bolt and safety can be manipulated with either hand. It is very easy to field strip, without tools, and parts are easily replaced. The Galil and its accessories are expensive, but not out of reach.

>>28041653
If you are with a police department or an individual that works in a cold climate, it is the best weapon you can get. For information on the Galil, contact: Douglas Evans, Magnum Research, 2825 Anthony Lane S., Minneapolis, MN 55418. NOTE: The Alaska State Troopers have not yet adopted a service rifle, due to budgetary limitations and other factors. This article expresses the opinions of the author. The Department of Public Safety does not endorse any product. The author: Jeffrey Hall is a veteran of the 173rd Airborne and 75th Infantry (Ranger). An Alaska State Trooper for seven years, he has been a member of the Department's Special Weapons Team for four years, and is presently assistant team leader. He holds a black belt in karate and is two time state IPSC Pistol Champion.

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>>28041572
My comment was for people who could seperate a serious concern from a humorous reference to an underexposed and much missed youtuber.

>>28041255
>a good AK will last several
Because the lifetime of the average AK using guerilla muslim ain't too high.

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>>28041296
So I don't get it, they let water get on their guns and freeze and then they end up with firearm malfunctions, how is this scientific at all. Why not just make a rifle for extreme cold instead of doing stupid shit like this and then "oh noooooo nothing workssssssss, look at our "comprehensive" testinggggggg"

>>28041598
as it turns out the primer is highly corrosive in old ammunition. even if your barrel and piston is chrome lined there are still parts that will corrode.

i read somewhere that you can tell by shape of primer with great accuracy if it's corrosive or not.

>>28041601

I get what you are trying to say. But why would you ever not clean a rifle for an entire month?

>>28041517
I don't know, check out the henderson defense posts on barfcom.
I think he talks about milled aks some in his AK thread but I don't quite remember all the details.
>>28041598
>The barrel of an AR is harder to make than a stamped sheet metal receiver for an AK that can be replaced by removing the barrel (something easy to do in a situation where it's being refurbished at an Arsenal), chopping off the old rivets and sticking all the old trunnions on a new receiver.
Yea but by the time you need to replace an AK receiver the barrels gonna be gone too.

>>28041685
And all ammunition shot through AKs is old? "Standard" never changes?

Seriously man, when was the last time you saw surplus for cheaper than, say, tulammo? It's pointless to whine about that. There are much better things to complain about with AKs.
Accuracy, the fact that it's meant for someone slightly smaller than you, and that it isn't easy to mount your special optics meant so they can fix your eyes sucking.

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>>28041672
It shows you've never spent innawoods time during winter.

>snow everywhere
>gets every fucking where
>you sleep in a tent, with or without fire, the snow & ice melts -> water
>you take off, the water freezes
>just by firing the gun, the snow & ice melts and pours into every nook & cranny.

in short, your poor argument is a pathetic excuse for the over-complicated NATO toys to fail, while simpler systems just keep on working. Plus a laboratory sub-zero tests would be FAR from the actual, natural environments.

>>28041730
>press barrel out
>press barrel in
>headspace
>drill and pin
Bam, new AK barrel. Not as hard as AR people say it is, especially with the right equipment (you know, like in arsenals and gun stores)

>>28041662
I can't hear your inflections over the Internet. I have no idea if someone is joking or not 99% of the time.

>>28041746
I want an RK95. Where get?

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>>28041775
Sorry, I just assumed it would be taken as a bit of a joke since the video that gif is from is itself, a joke (in a good way).

>>28041165
How many western rifles have directly copied the ak design
5 off the top of my head

How many rifles have copied the ar15 shit where it eats design
Fucking zero

AR18 on the other hand is a complete different story (ie g36/scar/acr any modern multi lug piston driven rifle)
Checkmate atheists

>>28041746
I'm not advocating for either side, it's a given that water is going to get on the guns but their "testing" doesn't seem to have any forethought about what guns to try and instead just take everything because why not. In harsh conditions personally I'd advocate simple and few parts that don't require extreme precision to operate. They should have looked at what has worked in other countries for similar conditions and at least start from that as a foundation.

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>>28041782
You'd literally have to steal one from Finnish Defense Forces.

Closest possible legit alternative would be buying the civilian Sako RK92S model, but that's 2k €, minimum.

If you're American, just look up someone with Valmet RK62/76, and pimp it up with folding stock.

The easiest way: just grab the best milled AK you can get, and start ordering Sako / Galil type parts to put on it.

>>28041702
As a stress test for the AR vs. AK debate. Because OP talked of "reliability" and nothing else.

>>28041826
>5 off the top of my head

What five? RK, FNC, SG550, then what?

>>28041804
>fuck breakfast in general
>and those waffles in particular
>and that car
>And Hitler

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>>28041848
Galil, and all its variants?

>>28041843
>You'd literally have to steal one from Finnish Defense Forces.

Nah, there are a couple legit full auto RKs in the civvie market. The problem is finding them and getting the permits.

>Closest possible legit alternative would be buying the civilian Sako RK92S model, but that's 2k €, minimum.

Yeah I know, I have one. But I want a funswitch, for fun.

>>28041852

Based on the RK, so it's redundant to list them

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>>28041858
>Nah, there are a couple legit full auto RKs in the civvie market
maybe so, but not RK-95, that's for sure.
SAKO only ever got to make one batch of them, and they are already running out of untouched guns. Export didn't catch wind either.

>>28041884
>maybe so, but not RK-95, that's for sure.

They do exist.

>>28041746
>guy shoots KVKK in winter
>bolt freezes in a quirky position
>go to tent
>unfreeze bolt
>everyone got hearing damages

>>28041356
Israel switched from FALs to Galils when their FALs kept shitting themselves in the sand.

The Ak-47 is a ruskie copy of a german rifle ofc its more reliable than some jewnited states bullshit.

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Pretty much every haj video has someone clearing some form of malfunction with an AK and PKM

>>28041931
If you actually believe this you need to kill yourself.

>>28041848
Ak 5 and galil

I know they are both based off fnc and rk but fuck your rules, that's 5.

Shit tier ar15 is ZERO
Rifle so shit that no one wants roll their own flavor of it besides 'murica small arms which involve miles of railz and tacticool colors and fancy logos

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>>28041938
shit ammo, shit ancient guns, next to no maintenance. Any rifle would start showing symptoms for being several decades out in the desert.

Hell, even I've had misfires with my AK, and every single time the problems proven out to be the old surplus ammo, not the gun itself.

>>28041931
The AK-47 is chambered in 7.62x39mm, and the STG-44 in 7.92x33mm so not a direct copy, but i influented by STG-44

>>28041938
that probably has more to do with ammo and magazines than anything else.
I'm not fanboying, I've had minor ftf in aks before.

>>28041736
ak is by far the most accurate gun i ever shot
or my soul resonates with this slavshit i don't know.
i get the best groupings shooting ak47.

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>Ar15 children damage controlling
>noguns parroting fuddlore they heard while playing with their airshit buddies


What a good thread.

>>28041601
>Try not cleaning your AK and AR for a month and see who comes out with less malfunctions. I'll wait.

I haven't cleaned my oldest AR for over a year now. My other ARs receive similar treatment. No malfunctions so far, and I pretty much only shoot my reloads that are somewhat underpowered and noticeably dirtier than factory ammo. In fact, the only time I ever experienced a malfunction with an AR were two doublefeeds in a row while prone and resting the rifle on a GI mag. Zero malfunctions after I moved on to PMAGs.

In the meanwhile, my mint 1960 Izhevsk AKM will FTF on a regular basis while squeaky clean and well lubed - and I can't really afford to stop cleaning any of my AKs for a month to complete your test because they would rust to shit with the corrosive ammo I use.

I met your stupid requirements for the ARs and they refuse to fail despite your memeing. What now?

>>28042158
try same in a desert
post results!

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>>28042180

>>28041325
sounds like a fud to me. there's nothing 'toy' like about the ar 15s i've shot, unless the one he's shot is decked out in retarded tacticool trash. the spring problem i can understand. i don't like the twang, wich is why i replaced my buffer tube spring with one made of silicon, which completely eliminated the problem

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>>28041851
I just want him back :,(

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>>28042267
We all do, anon. We all do.
We can try trading nutnfancy and Hickok45 for Dugan but I doubt it will work.
>hold your AK, space cowboy.

>>28041197
Came here to poast this.

>>28042180

I live in Reno and haven't cleaned my AR in over a year, its been over 2000 rounds. Mix of xm855, wolf gold, reloads, and xm193. Literally has never had an issue, all I use are BCM GI mags. I've actually only lubed it twice in that time, and that was just preventative, not due to sluggish operation.

>>28041425
it is about the bolt design not the gas system
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JmIQXkoog8

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>>28042525
people just shit on DI gas system and don't really know what fucked the M16 in the 60

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>>28041211
>gun jam because of the gun powder
into the sea it go

Stoner was an aeronautic engineer that worked with jets. Kalashnikov was a former tanker that went to engineering school. Small wonder their designs were diametric opposites in philosophy. AR tolerances measured in nanometers versus AK tolerances measured in centimeters.

I dont pick between the two. I went the David Lo Pan route and married both women.

>>28041255
>>a good AR will last a lifetime
>>a good AK will last several
joke on you the AR will last longer,
AR bolt won't last as long as the AK but AK ejecter and receiver will break before a AR receiver start to wore

>>28042590
he studying engineer before became a tanker in ww2 you dumbfuck. the war only turn him into a gun designer instead of an agricultural machinery engineer

>>28041601
lol i run 5.45 thru my ar

for shits and gigles i ran over 100 rounds of cheap ass dirty 5.45 thru it and didn't cleat for a month. theere was COPPER fouling ON TOP of the carbon fouling, so thick that the rifling disappeared. it stayed in this encrusted state for 3 fucking months. and then i ran a few mags thru it without cleaning it and it didn't malfunction once

>>28041916
>kvkk
We still use that piece of shit? I thought we'd switched fully to PKM's by now

>>28041165
drafted spoiled kids during Nam that didn't understand how their weapon worked plus the fact ammunition and magazines made for the m16 were not correctly made.

>>28042888
>drafted spoiled
One of those words is not like the other.

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>>28042888
>drafted spoiled kids

>>28042158
>my mint 1960 Izhevsk AKM will FTF on a regular basis
sounds like you fucked up when you put together your $675 rgun parts kit that doesnt even include a barrel.

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>>28042323
I'd trade anyone on youtube, even Ian would be a close thing.

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>>28042972
He's Czech friendo.

>>28042977
>Trading Ian for a memer
Come on guy.

>>28043001
I said it'd be close, I didn't say I'd do it.

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>>28041938
Gee whiz, I wonder why.

>>28043030
It's almost like most AKs in the Middle East have been being used nonstop for 40+ years or something...

>>28041356
>>28041380

Sand tests aren't the same as sub-zero condition testing.

The point absent from the article is that it's not the operating systems themselves that fail, but how the lubricants act upon that system when they freeze.

If you ran zero lubricants on any of those guns they would probably work, but you will wear out the gun in the process. The only reason the AK and FNC manage to stand out is that the lubrication required is minimal, and that they are over-gassed by design.

also
>2015
>expecting an FAL to run on anything but the highest gas setting

>>28042972

Nice try, but the gun is exactly the same as the day it left the assembly line in Izhevsk, sans the auto sear.

>>28042977
>dat pic

Really nigger?

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>>28043095
The only time middle eastern AKs get to rest is when they're lying in a pool of their (former) owner's blood or sitting on the ground in a moist dirt floored hut.

>>28042118
Fuck off.

>>28041851
It's TACTICAL!

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found this completely 100% honest and relevant comparison

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhGih7eWI3E

>>28041165
Ak 47 had fatter more cone shaped ammo and had a Chrome lined barrel earlier. You'll also hear fudds talk about the ak having looser tolerance, nor sure where that came from, probably knock offs.

>>28041211
>using a weapon that needs a specific blend of ammo just to function

I don't call that a war machine I call that a princess gun. Your gun is your lifeline, reliability is of utmost importance. No, that's not the only issue ARs have, they still foul to the point of failure if not regularly cleaned and require special lubrication and care.

>>28043167
>You'll also hear fudds talk about the ak having looser tolerance, nor sure where that came from, probably knock offs.
they're confusing clearance and tolerance

>>28041259
Do they handle well manufactured AK's or just the shit they found on insurgents that was likely dug out of the ground?

>>28041380
That stands as long as you actually do regular maintenance.

>>28043207
>they're confusing clearance and tolerance

What's funny is that they're right either way. Surplus AK parts often require fitting because of the loose manufacturing tolerances, and no one's surprised to have to file, mill, sand and polish some shit to fit their AK, whereas AR parts are required to be fully interchangeable and companies get lots of shit flinged at them if they aren't.

>>28043203
Nigga you dumb.

My ar will eat any type of ammo I feed it, ball, ap, tracer, hand loads, raw lead, and the only malfunctions caused by my own error.

>>28041702
AK seems to have been made for the environment of a total war where resources are lacking, and time is probably spent more getting chow and taking a nap so you don't die from starvation or sleep deprivation. So cut out one less thing for a soldier to care much for. I say that's not a bad idea even if you are a professional force. Less time weapon maintenance more time doing everything else, like shooting, pt,etc.

>>28043301
Not him, but can you even read? Early ARs suffered from a myriad of issues because of the ammo used. Nobody manufactures that kind of ammo any more because it caused ARs to shit the bed.

>>28043300
yeah but clearance is what contributes to relability in the ak

>>28041755
The point he was trying to make was not that its difficult to change an AK barrel. He was saying that if you get to the point where you need to change an AK receiver, the barrel will need to be changed too, defeating the whole point of preferring an AK because the receiver is easier to make

>AR
100,000 rds
Receiver's fine, change barrel for 4th time

>AK
100,000 rds
Receiver's busted, luckily its easier to make than a barrel!
Oh wait, it needs its 5th barrel too :(

>>28041544
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JliFxbB5Z5g

>>28043547
You do realize it's usually the front trunnion that will give on ak's, and CHF barrels almost never go before a stamped receiver cracks. Milled AK's are a very different story.

>>28043612
You do realize that is still irrelevent to the previous argument, correct? Even if cold hammer barrels never wore out, the original argument is that replacing an AK receiver (or front trunnion if you prefer) is better than replacing a barrel because its easier to produce. If i throw a cold hammer barrel on my AR, i can keep from replacing my barrel AND receiver.

>All these AK faggots shifting goalposts in this thread
>M-muh barrels are easy to change
>M-muh barrels can last forever

Not even an ARfag, but i can see why they hate AK fanboys trying to make their decent but cheap gun the pinnacle of weapon design.

>>28044679
Did you read what I posted or are you to busy back pedaling?

Or did you even bother to read >>28043547
post?

>>28042942
There was a pretty big difference between the mindset of the draftees if WW2, and those who went to Nam. The slacker counter culture was just starting, and kids from all walks of life had it much better than their parents did at that age.

>>28044793
Vets in WW2 also didn't experience 240 days of combat per tour.

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>>28044809
Fuck that game.

>>28041197
Beat me to it.

VIETNAM NUMBAH 1

>>28041165
golly it sure is weird that a significant amount of rifle manufacturers are looking to evolve the AK design and turn the AR design more into an AK's

>>28041325
Kind of agree with your friend on his first impression of the AR. Growing up I had only battle rifles, FAL and G3KA4. I thought the AR was a toy from the lightness and Al/plastic furniture.

Rivets on an AK. Enjoy drilling those out to replace a barrel or trunion.

>>28041826
Lol the m4/m16 platform already exists, why would you design some other special snowflake firearm when you could just buy one of the gazillion ar variants laying around

>>28042590
I can't believe you just dropped that reference and didn't get an ovation. You the man

>>28043386
Not true, the DoD demanded the problem be fixed by Colt because they didn't want to admit to any fault in their ammo purchasing decision. Colt then had their engineers redesign the buffer and they came up with a design that fixed the problem. This is normal in the development of new designs, which is why the AK-47 went from stamped receivers to milled, and they waited to go back to stamped until the AKM.

What do you say to all of the people who can run shitty bargain bin XM-193, steel and aluminum cased 55 grain .223, and AR's are built chambered in x39 cartridges which can reliably run slav surplus ammo?

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>>28044777
What the fuck?

>>28043547 was me, and I'm not backpedaling - I've made the same point twice and you faggots seem to keep being unable to comprehend the logic behind it. Let me dumb down this little conversation for you and we'll see if you can wrap your head around it. Sorry to all those who have a 5th grade or higher reading comprehension ability: wall of text incoming.

>>28041408
>AK receivers fail after about 100,000 rounds, while AR receivers are relatively unaffected by round count

>>28041598
>It's better to have an AK receiver fail than an AR barrel because the barrel is harder to manufacture

>>28041730
>But when you replace that AK receiver, the barrel will be shot out too, so you need to replace a simple part (receiver) AND a complex part (barrel)

>>28041755
>HURR DURR ARfags can't change an AK barrel!
>Its easy guise!

>>28043547 (me)
>That's not the point he was making
>2 parts replaced is more than 1 part replaced
>AR has the edge here because only 1 part needs replacing

>>28043612 (your tripfaggot self)
>uhmm ackchyually, it's the front trunnion of an AK that fails.
>oh, also these cool CHF barrels will outlast AK receivers, so they wouldn't need replacing
>not that that the AR would STILL have an edge since nothing would need replacing if it used a CHF barrel
>(insert small mention of milled receivers - an actually interesting point that I would have rather discussed)

>>28044679 (yours truly)
>why can't these AK fanboys understand what is being argued?

>>28044777 (ugh)
>uhm, excuse me, did you not READ my poorly organized argument and draw the conclusions I wanted you to?
>did you even read this other post (the one you wrote)

Why the fuck is it so difficult to make a coherent argument? Is it so difficult to come to grips with the fact that your weapon is beating itself to death that you have to vomit out some kind of disagreement?
The only valid point you made was milled receivers, but it was lost in a sea of bullshit.

>>28041975
>>28041991
Oh boy it's almost like the rifle has minor quirks that effect reliability if you don't maintain it. Isn't this most ak-fags' argument?

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>>28049471
You seem to forget the part where I never said AR fags can't change a barrel on an AK, all I said is it's marginally harder to do then a standard AR barrel, and told that one guy that not everyone has 12 ton presses, drill presses, and rivet guns laying around.

I literally brought valid points up to you about how AK's front trunnions will almost always crack before the receiver like you claimed in your retard little montage about having to replace an ak's CHF barrel more times than a straight chrome lined AR barrel.

In no way shape or form am I trying to say ak's do not break after a certain round count, which can all be negated by a milled receiver you stupid fricken fricker, minus a cracked trunnion if it was to ever crack.

10/10 rustled my jimmies.

>>28051361
My attack was not on you alone; it was on you guys keep responding to this argument. >>28041755 is the one who said AR guys can't change an AK barrel.

Anyway, you've failed yet again to understand why your points are not valid. Your trunnion point seems to be more of a nitpicking comment than a real contribution. I hope you realize the conversation up to that point had been all about receivers, so that's what I was going with. I would have appreciated the knowledge that the trunnion usually cracks first, but don't try to make it an argument against me - it literally does not matter for this discussion.

It seems you are upset that I said you need to change an AR barrel 4 times (to it's 5th barrel) and saying an AK would need it's 5th barrel (after being changed 4 times) because I was saying the AR needs it's barrel replaced less, but check this out.

5=5

Now my little "montage" I was keeping barrels the same for simplicity. I don't know enough about AKs to know how many have CHF barrels, But I do know you can get them for both weapons, so assuming they were equal is fair.

Now right at the end of you post things get interesting. You say receivers crack, which can all be negated by a milled receiver (I'd like to hear more about how much abuse a milled receiver can take) minus a trunnion. So I'm curious: are you not not a butthurt AK fag and just an autist who was upset that the math in my "montage" was off? If so I've been wasting my time replying to you, but let's see if this makes it better.

>AR (with CHF barrel)
100,000 rounds
Woah, time to change my barrel for the SECOND TIME (to my third barrel) = 3 parts

>AK
100,000 rounds
Woah, looks like i need a third barrel too
That sucks, I changed my front trunnion a while ago (good thing I have a milled receiver) = 4 parts
OR
This sucks, I've changed my trunnion and receiver (stamped) along with my barrel twice (to my third barrel) = 5 parts

Better?

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>>28052174
>>28052174
For the sake of the argument, lets assume that the ar is in it's most common caliber, IE 5.56x45/.223 and the ak is in its most common caliber, IE 7.62x39, guess which caliber has 10000 more psi of chamber pressure on average that wears out barrels quicker?

I have owned/own multiple samples of both, I have always preferred the 7.62's ballistics and my handling with a AK, so if that's what you consider qualities of a fanboy, I guess I fit your bill. You also forgot to mention replacing small parts in a AR's bcg, like extractors, extractor springs and some other minor things like gas seals and what not.


You act like nothing can go wrong with a an AR besides the barrel getting shot out, all in all the AK is a much more simpler platform, so will always have less things that can go wrong.
Also

>are you not not a butthurt AK fag and just an autist who was upset that the math in my "montage" was off?

Your original argument in >>28043547
was centered around having to change barrels the same number of times, so of course I would call you out on your bullshit claims.

>You say receivers crack, which can all be negated by a milled receiver (I'd like to hear more about how much abuse a milled receiver can take)

I found you an article online since you're clearly to lazy to use google.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/06/03/how-many-rounds-can-an-ak-fire-before-it-breaks-down/

Read the whole article, even the part with the Romanian barrels lasting over 100k rounds on full auto and still being fine.

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>>28043131
You fuck off, noguns,

>>28053240
See, now THAT is a valid response and one I can accept.

The AR and AK have edges over each other and it really comes down to preference. Would you rather be replacing smaller parts in an AR or cracked receivers in an AK? It's really up to the person. I fully understand that you'll have little things going wrong with an AR, but that discussion was about receivers and barrels. Bringing up that you'd prefer to not have to worry about those little bits is a great argument against "your shitty weapon beats itself to death" because it's a trade-off.

Do you understand why I was frustrated with your trunnions and CHF barrels responses though? It didn't seem relevant because a trunnion cracking is (in my mind) equivalent to a receiver cracking (i'm no AK expert but it seems like the process for replacing them is pretty close). And CHF barrels on ARs is a thing as well.

I also own both weapons, and although in my mind I like my ARs more, I always end up shooting my AK the most. It's a fun gun that does have its own advantages.

Like i said, my example was extremely simplified to reflect the point of some other anon that >>28041755 missed. Practically, barrels will be worn down differently, and other parts will definitely give out on an AR. I think I see your point there.

I was considering blocking your trip after this thread died but maybe this was just a fluke discussion where neither of us were portraying our points well.

And thanks for the article.

>>28053536
>Do you understand why I was frustrated with your trunnions and CHF barrels responses though? It didn't seem relevant because a trunnion cracking is (in my mind) equivalent to a receiver cracking (i'm no AK expert but it seems like the process for replacing them is pretty close). And CHF barrels on ARs is a thing as well.

I do, the fact of the matter is almost anyone can fix/build an AR with minimal tools, which is far from the same for an AK. Replacing a front trunnion is a little less time, but a front trunnion will also run about 40 or so more on average then a receiver flat.

>I was considering blocking your trip after this thread died but maybe this was just a fluke discussion where neither of us were portraying our points well.

I've been thrown in many an anon's filter over these last 3 1/2 years or so off this same trip, good debate though. I agree with you 100% both rifles have their short comings but at the end of the day they are simple machines. I could have tried to get my point across a bit better, but All's well that ends well.

No problem with the article, now I just have to wait for someone else to get home to help pull the stock off one of my AK's, such is life though.