I can't find a documentary that is not sided so what /k/

> Who's to blame and who is the real aggressor in this case?

USA.

>>27841150

War is never about morality. Just pick the side that you like most and root for them.

>>27841218
Ahh, the vatniks answer to every problem

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>>27841218
Where is the proofs

>>27841150
tha jooz

>>27841150

Basically America coddled up to a new US-friendly Georgian president and encouraged them to fuck with Russia.

Putin was not impressed. Sent in some Chechens and they fucked shit up.

>>27841150
Stalin for giving Georgia clay from Russia back in the 50's.

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>>27841150
Rothschild Financing both side of every war since 1760 ;)

I am forced to assume, in this situation, that, as always, the Kardashians were responsible for this.

>Georgian province starts to rebel
>Gets shelled by Georgia proper
>DEY HAVE KILLED RUSSIAN NATIONALS

And then Russia invaded.

Sound familiar at all?

>>27841150
Georgia was the initial aggressor with Russia taking over that role a few days into the war:

Georgia was the aggressor, but then again it is their territory. Georgia had three breakaway regions: one near Turkey, and two near Russia. After the revolution, the pro-Western leader wanted to bring these breakaway regions back into the fold, and the most logical target was the one bordering Turkey. That territory fell pretty easily.

The next easiest target was South Ossetia. The problem was that they weren't likely to go down without a fight, they were being protected by Russian "peacekeepers," and they had a some violent history with Georgia. Georgia decided the best course of action was to bring them into the fold by using their military. That's all well and good, but they fucked up (or did they?) and killed a bunch of civilians. This caused an uproar in Russia (lots of rumors flying around about ethnic cleansing by the Georgians), not to mention the Russians were bound to protect the area because of their peacekeeping duties.

So naturally Russia comes to protect South Ossetia, and other rebels in Georgia join the Russians in a revenge attack on Georgia. Things got real tense real quick, because Georgia is Western-backed and a small country, so Russian forces out to pacify Georgia came incredibly close to the capital, which was setting of "regime change" alarms in the West.

In the end, hardcore negotiations reached a peace deal that saw things basically reset to pre-war conditions. Georgia gave up on unification after that.

>>27841625
>initial aggressor

>in an internal conflict

Georgia fired the first shots but as part of legit policing powers. Russia was the aggressor who intervened.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bv00Weif0Sw

>>27841699
There is some fresh Vice news document about things in Georgia now.

>>27841625
Russia had such a strong reaction because one of those grad bombardements happened to hit one of those barracks with some russian "peace keeping" forces.

That was one fuck up.


Second fuck up, was expecting the US to send troops to defend their ally Georgia, since Georgia had been in the coalition of the willing in Iraq.

The US weren't feeling all that keen on thermonuclear war that day, and decided to sit this one out.

>>27841737
Probably. Georgia was highly interested in NATO membership, and NATO was interested as well, but that all went out the window due to the war. If only Georgia had waited awhile longer, then maybe they would have gotten all their territory back. Instead they took a gamble and lost.

>>27841240
>>27841259
>implying he is wrong

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>>27841437

>>27841847
Remember folks, Ghost Recon 1 predicted this conflict in some ways back in 2002.

>>27841857
Thats exactly what im implying you filthy tracksuit wearing fuck

>>27841150
Georgia for betraying USSR in 1991, Russia is just attempting to reclaim its lost republic

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>>27842082

I remember the threads when this was going down. Bricks were shat and there many appeals to God Emperor Clancy to explain

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>>27841150
>>27841218
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBPBdW2wXpc

>>27842082
When i realized that i had one of the greatest mindfucks in my entire life.

>>27842151
>its polands fault for starting WW2 germany was just reclaiming their lost territory
you fucks have the most toxic idiotic way of thinking

>>27841847
>If only Georgia had waited awhile longer

Seriously. Georgians are a bunch of dumbfucks who deserved to get assraped by the Russians.

They had ONE JOB, and that was not to fuck anything up til they got NATO membership.

>>27842838
So do you think the Civil War was a result of Northern aggression?

What is your opinion?

>>27841847
>>27843483

So essentially this is Russia's argument. The war started with NATO talks underway and half of Georgia's army engaged supporting US operations in Iraq (one of their two brigades). It started during the summer olympics and a Presidential election year in the USA... two events guaranteed to swallow up all the news coverage. Georgia staged their attack when a huge Russian invasion for have been stationed on their border for exercises.

It was a carefully orchestrated Russian plan. They'd stirred up the rebel groups specifically to provoke a crisis (as in Ukraine more recently). The crisis was precisely timed and the response clearly rehearsed in advance.

I don't blame Georgia at all for this. It was clearly planned by Russia long in advance. Back when they were the Soviets they followed this formula, too, actually going back to the Czars. Usually they have a few agents in place they can use to stage a provocation, but failing that they're not above faking one or just lying and claiming something happened even if nothing did. The slavaboos will always believe it-- just look at that airliner they shot down in Ukraine.

There's a running joke in diplomatic circles about Russia always crying "we were PROVOKED!" "It was a provocation!!" It's not as stupid as it sounds: the idea isn't that anybody will believe them, it's that believing them gives diplomats an excuse to overlook the incident, so officially pretending you believe gives you an out.

>>27841150

With all the slavaboos on /k/ every night, you're not going to get an unbiased opinion here either.

I do find the timing very suspicious, and Russia's been causing trouble all around its borders over the past 15 years. So Russia probably precipitated the crisis.

>>27845300
Except that even though you're probably not wrong, this method has and is still used all over the world. It's a good way to get a casus belli in modern times and still look like the good guy. That includes America y

I'm sure Georgia wouldn't have said no to the territory either. As was explained in the thread, they were hoping for Western intervention. You're ignorant of you seriously don't blame Georgia for going along with this.

>>27845300

Hard to believe it was orchestrated by Russia from the start when they only managed to win the conflict due to sheer Georgian incompetence.

When the Georgians attacked the closest Russian forces were COIN reservists, they were the first responders. Basically the entire Russian supply train relied on a single tunnel through the Caucasus that Georgia held, had they not lost it like idiots (or had the foresight to blow the tunnel) then the entire Russian advance would have ground to a halt.

The Russians ad-libbed the entire conflict and Georgia managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. The shit performance of the Russian army in that scenario prompted Putin to start a huge modernisation program.

>>27842838
Never doubt how the vatnik is able to twist everything to make up for their extreme cognitive dissonance.

>>27847155
>they only managed to win the conflict due to sheer Georgian incompetence
Incredible story.

>>27847179
Well, he is right to some extent. I don't think the georgians would've won, but if they atleast blew up the tunnel - in wouldn't have ended is less than a week.

>>27846899
>Except that even though you're probably not wrong, this method has and is still used all over the world. It's a good way to get a casus belli in modern times and still look like the good guy. That includes America y

Good point. America and every other country has absolutely used this method. A full third of our continental territory was conquered this way in the Mexican American war, fought on precisely this pretext.

I'm not saying it's exclusively Russian or invented there. Just that historically the Russians are the undisputed masters of this kind of thing.

>I'm sure Georgia wouldn't have said no to the territory either. As was explained in the thread, they were hoping for Western intervention. You're ignorant of you seriously don't blame Georgia for going along with this.

If georgia had genuinely started it, then they'd have waited a few months to precipitate the crisis. Why do it when a huge Russian formation "just happens" to be training on their border? Why do it when their supposed ally is caught up in a political campaign? And while that great ally was already distracted fighting two other wars? Why not wait a few months for America to be formally tied into treaty commitments? Why do it when one of their two brigades is tied up in Iraq?

And if Russia's former conquered territories are all starting aggressive wars on poor sad Russia, then why are they doing it one at a time, waiting patiently for Russia to resolve one crisis before provoking another? If this was the plan, wouldn't they coordinate to all strike together?

You could say it was blind incompetence, I suppose, but I think you're deluding yourself. Russia had oil and port objectives they wanted to secure, and engineering a crisis was comparatively easy and low-risk.

>>27847513
Pretty much this.

Russia was a complete joke in the conflict, it was a comedy of errors on both sides with both Georgia and Russia trying their hardest to fuck things up.

God damn, the Russians even tried to use guided bombs using commercial GPS at the time because their own constellation hadn't gone up yet and then found out the hard way that the US had already shut off GPS to the region.

>>27842280
RIP Clancy.

>>27848217
>Why do it when a huge Russian formation "just happens" to be training on their border?
Except it's always there training.

>>27848217
>Why not wait a few months for America to be formally tied into treaty commitments?
7 years have passed and still no commitments.

>>27848217
>Why do it when one of their two brigades is tied up in Iraq?
They weren't expecting Russia to step-up.

As for the choice of date, I assume that the gamble was simple - do everything quickly while the world is busy with olympics and simply doesn't care.

And yes, shitloads of incompetence \ straight-up strange decisions, frantic moves on both sides, clearly indicating that this was pure improv.

>>27848217
>Why do it when a huge Russian formation "just happens" to be training on their border
Didnt the russians rushed in their chechen division, because they were the only one near?

>>27848292
No, the Russians had pretty clearly set up several units specifically for the invasion. Even so, the invasion was rather sloppy, and served more or less like Grenada did for us back in the '80s. Afterwards, changes were made that led to the better-organized operations in Crimea and Ukraine.

The handwriting was on the wall when Russia built, at considerable expense, a railroad through the mountains near the sea from North Ossetia into South Ossetia. That allowed them a second route past the ranges that serve as Georgia's best defense, in addition to the tunnel. I remember it happening a few months before the invasion, and I expected something to happen as a result; I just expected more pressure resulting in de facto annexation of South Ossetia and leading to an impossible defensive situation for Georgia, not a full-blown invasion.

Blowing up the tunnel in the north and (if possible) dropping a smart bomb on a railroad bridge in the northwest was about the only chance Georgia ever had, and I never fully understood why they didn't try. I *have* heard claims on /k/ before that Russia had essentially held both sides of the tunnel for months, and that's why Georgia couldn't blow it, but I haven't seen a lot of hard evidence regarding that claim.

>>27848229

Yeah he was a great author, but the quality went down during the 90's. A victim of his own success; I'm glad he got a chance to enjoy it.

And the "russians are heroes" meme got tired pretty fast. I think that with fame, he began to crave media affirmation. His image in the 80s was that he was a hard-nosed cold warrior who hated Russia (which going all the way back to Hunt for Red October wasn't true). So once Communism was overthrown, he overcompensated.

>>27848278
>7 years have passed and still no commitments.

All that talk ended once Russia invaded. That's the other point: if Russia had waited any longer, then Georgia would have been under the NATO umbrella. They had to move in the comparative short term. Having moved, us bringing Georgia into NATO would have immediately precipitated a war. Putin knew what he was doing-- the action was perfectly orchestrated from a geopolitical perspective. And with the change in US administrations, the new people in charge fell all over themselves to accommodate the invasion. However clumsy the military execution, it was diplomatically masterful.

>>27848292

No idea of the division's ethnic composition, but a point of old Soviet doctrine was to send less-valuable troops in first, on the assumption that they would bear the brunt of the enemy's best weapons. Only once the fighting was engaged do you send in your best formations. Why waste valuable Russian lives when you can use Chechan soldiers?

>>27848396
>Blowing up the tunnel in the north and (if possible) dropping a smart bomb on a railroad bridge in the northwest was about the only chance Georgia ever had, and I never fully understood why they didn't try. I *have* heard claims on /k/ before that Russia had essentially held both sides of the tunnel for months, and that's why Georgia couldn't blow it, but I haven't seen a lot of hard evidence regarding that claim.

I haven't heard anything about this, either, but it would fit their doctrine perfectly if they had.

>>27848396
>dropping a smart bomb
Georgians dont have any smart munitions on their Su-25s.

>>27848217
> Why not wait a few months for America to be formally tied into treaty commitments?

And we all know how much these are worth when the US doesn't have the will to intervene.
Completely nothing.

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>>27841625
>had a some violent history with Georgia
fairy recent, as for solid 4 month prior to war Georgian checkpoints and settlements were under mortar fire on weekly basis. They they got even more rustled when Russian AF shot down Georgian UAV, and soon later weapon shippment for rebels was captured by Georgian soldiers, with Russian soldiers still in trucks.

>>27849544

Well, that's how it turned out. Yes. But in that case, why would Georgia "invade" at all? If they're confident the Americans would save their bacon, as the slavaboos claim, then they'd wait until the commitment was solidly in place and America was politically positioned to help out.

The fact that America is a fickle ally helps Russia, not Georgia, and makes it less likely that Georgia would initiate hostilities. But much more likely that Russia would, especially timed as it was.

>>27849694

This.

It's important to distinguish between "civil insurrection because mass oppression!" and "Russia paid a few guys to start up a terrorist cell". The latter is far more likely in this cas.e

>>27849694
Any one remember those Georgian airliners shot down in the Mid 90's by "separatists".

>>27848220
>Russia was a complete joke in the conflict, it was a comedy of errors on both sides with both Georgia and Russia trying their hardest to fuck things up.
haha look at this chucklefuck. two russian companies took on 2 brigades in street to street fighting in 888 war to relieve the besieged peacekeepers and actually held them off. takes some real competence to survive many times your number while being outgunned in every way.>>27848220
>God damn, the Russians even tried to use guided bombs using commercial GPS at the time because their own constellation hadn't gone up yet and then found out the hard way that the US had already shut off GPS to the region.
nice myth. russians dont even have navsat/glonass bombs finished development let alone in stocks near backwater region of the country. unless you are saying they can travel back in time too. not to mention their current gps bombs are wholly glonass- they are kinda aware of their own plans to disable navstar signals wherever they can through EW or outright shooting down sats.

>>27848292
>>Why do it when a huge Russian formation "just happens" to be training on their border
because tensions have recently erupted- doesnt matter if it was before, after or during exercise those dudes would be stationed whenever it happens. also if they were really preparing for it why not a much bigger formation than 2 companies? why not the whole division?

>>27841704
That reporter looks so freaking familiar.

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>>27851624
This is much better when imagining this accent.

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>>27850610
key word there, georgian.
the world community doesn't give two fucks those black-ass apes.

the MH17 will be remembered, cuz it carried white skins.