How would you rank the mainline Touhou games from best to

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>>17473251
Worst:
H*dd*n St*r *n F**r S**s*ns
(The demo was better than the full release.)
Ten Desires
(only thing good about this is the cast.)

Best:
Imperishable Night
PoFV (character-wise, so many non-playables got playable in this one.)

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-IN
-UFO
-SA
-HSiFS
-DDC
-PCB
-LoLK
-PoFV
-EoSD
-TD
I don't really understand the hate for HSiFS, i really liked most of the soundtrack and specially liked the 6th and extra stage.
And Matara does NOT like like Junko.

>>17473336
maybe because the new characters are extremely mediocre and they the are fruits of ZUN's creative bankruptcy?

I would be fine if the full game never got released at all.

IN = SA > PCB = EoSD > HSiFS > Everything aside from LoLK > LoLK

Maybe it's the novelty of a new game but HSiFS isn't so bad. Characters are mediocre, but the gameplay is solid.

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>>17473251
Best: Imperishable Night, Mystic Square
Worst: Ten Desires, Story of Eastern Wonderland (fight me, Mimafags).

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>>17473336
>And Matara does NOT like like Junko.
Come on now.

>>17473251
SA > PCB > UFO > IN > MoF > DDC > LoLK > HSiFS > EoSD > TD > PoFV
I really like MoF and UFO characters, soundtrack and patterns, but gameplay gimmick wise I understand they are far from great.

I like them all.

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TD is my favourite.
Fuck me up /jp/

>>17473867
ur gay

>>17473867
Great taste.

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>>17473251
PCB > PoFV > SA > DDC > MS > LoLK > IN > HSiFS > EoSD > TD > LLS > SoEW > UFO > MoF > HRtP > PoDD

>>17473336
Every new game gets hate on release. Give people time to settle down.

>>17473867
>TD is my favourite.
I'm sorry to hear that.

>Fuck me up /jp/
If TD really is your favorite, I think you've been fucked up by life enough as is, so I'll give you break.
Beating down a mentally handicapped just simply doesn't feel right.

best is PCB

Not sure why you're only allowing mainline touhou games, because fairy wars is good.

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>worst
Your favourite.
>best
My favourite.

>>17474839
Because they're too different to be fairly compared to each other, and where they lie in relation to the main games varies wildly from person to person.

>>17474378
>Every new game gets hate on release.
People still hate TD.

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>>17473336

>>17474846
/thread

>>17474898
Only secondaries hate TD.

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HRtP is a secret masterpiece

>>17474898
>Every game gets hate on release.
>This game is still disliked.
Those are not mutually exclusive.

Its not the game that sucks
Its YOU that has outgrown the series. Act your age, niggers

>>17475027
>Only secondaries hate TD.
Only those that played TD hate it. DDC and TD are fucking awful. Thank god for LoLK saving Touhou.

>>17475195
I'm saying the excuse of "oh that's just the initial hate every game gets!" excuse doesn't exist.

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>>17475264
Three incorrect opinions in a row, huh.

>>17475279
Except you did nothing to disprove it.
DDC got hate on release, and now it's beloved. Not all hate fades, but each game starts hated for some reason regardless.

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>>17475284
I see what you did there.

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>>17475345
Not my intention. Let's try again.
>Three incorrect opinions in a row, huh.

>>17475325
DDC was horribly broken on release. HSiFS is just irredeemably shit. Only good parts about it are Aunn and the music.

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>>17475379
Why are you quoting yourself?

>>17475386
The only thing ZUN fixed about DDC post-release was the replay desynch bug, which he didn't even completely fix.

HRtP favorite

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MoF is only the 2nd worst now.

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>>17473251
Smells like /v/ in here

>>17475264
TD suffers from a very very bad first three stages and boss fights and then KINDA gets its shit together toward the end. I like the OST and the characters but overall TD while not utter garbage ultimately falls very short of what it could have been.

>>17475781
>Avoiding any mainline game

Also UFO,ISC,LoLK are better than TD

>>17473251
15 > 7 > 16 > 14 > 8 > 11 > 10 > 9 > 6 > 13 > 12

Wouldn't push that opinion on anyone though, especially since I suck at these games.

>>17474898
I do not hate TD. I love the music, I love the cast, but as a game it's really down there.

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>>17476094
in letters for those who don't quick associate numbers
LoLK > PCB > HSiFS > DDC > IN > SA > MoF > PoFV > EoSD > TD > UFO

>>17474839
if I could add in decimal games, 14.3 ISC would be my top

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>>17474378
I decided to make this for fun.

>>17476165
Just awful

>>17476165
Actually, fudge you friend. I agree with your fudging opinions quite a lot so much so that i am afraid i passed out with the last 15 minutes and posted this myself.

Is HRtP actually bad or do people just dislike it because it's so different from everything else?

>>17476229
I thought it was fine. You should give it a try and see for yourself.

>>17476229
I don't think it's fun, it has almost no story to speak of, and there's like two good music tracks.

It's fine for a guy's first game. That's all.

>>17476165
Not incorrect.

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>>17476165
Casual spotted.

Based of gameplay wise only:

SA>MoF>EoSD=PCB=IN=DDC>TD=HSiFS>LoLK>UFO

Floating ufos kills the fun for me for my own autism reasons.

The extra "bomb" mechanic on 'c' key lowers my rating of td and hsifs because im bad at using it.

Lolk is only low because im scrub and still cant 1cc on normal unless i play really well that run.

So really a lot of the games rated low is pretty much my own fault

I like to separate my enjoyment between purely gameplay and everything else, like cast, story, and characters. There are games I'll enjoy playing and dislike everything else, like EoSD and games I'll hate playing but love everything else about, like TD.

Gameplay wise:
8 > 10 > 4 > 5 > 6 > 16 > 7 > 11 > 12 > 15 > 14 > 13 > 2 > 9 > 3 > 1

Everything else:
13 > 5 > 12 > 10 > 3 > 15 > 8 > 4 > 7 > 14 > 11 > 9 > 6 > 2 > 1

>>17476508
I forgot about 16 in the second list. I'd put it in between LLS and PCB as of now

>>17476447
Sounds like someone doesn't actually have a counter argument.
Difficulty =/= quality, anyway.

I have not played the PC98 games. I should really get around to that. However, I have played every windows mainline game, other than 9.

8 > 10 > 7 > 14 = 6 > > 11 > 12 > 13 > > 15 = 16

The > > are intentional.

I fucking hate the bonus mechanism in 14. It triggers my autism and I can't play the game comfortably if it feels like I could have gotten another bomb piece had I just waited a second more

>>17476229
HRtP is unpolished, kind of janky, has no story to speak of outside of ending cutscenes, and all together feels more like a student project than a real game.
I mean it has some neat stuff, but at the end of the day it just lacks the polish of even the very next game in the series.

>>17476576
Just route out all the resources you get in the game so you know what you should be getting at what times.

>>17476582
that's not comfy

>>17476535
>Sounds like someone doesn't actually have a counter argument.
Because "it's bad because it's too har-- i mean because i say so" deserves a proper rebuttal.
>Difficulty =/= quality
And?

>>17476624
The UFO mechanic is overly centralizing despite having very little to do with the shmup mechanics proper, and in many cases makes the player feel as if they're completing arbitrary tasks in order to receive things that other games reward the player simply for playing well. As well, the sometimes hard to track nature of UFOs means that the player is heavily encouraged to stick to the bottom of the screen, lest they accidentally ruin their chances at getting more lives by picking up a blue ufo accidentally, which in many cases can ruin a run.
And that's not getting into character imbalance, the visibility issues that several patterns suffer from (stage 5 is most infamous for this, but Ichirin also has issues with this), along with an odd difficulty curve that doesn't follow the standard set by most Touhou games, where the difficulty suddenly seems to drop for stage 4, only to pick back up dramatically for stage 5 on Lunatic.
As well, while this is a very subjective topic that varies wildly from person to person, I simply didn't care for the ost or characters in UFO. The ost just felt really bland to me for the most part, and most of the newhus just feel like filler that are defined by their relationship to Byakuren and their weird gimmicks more than they are defined by their actual personality quirks. And while this helps to serve in making Byakuren's reveal one of the most effective final boss reveals in the franchise, it is at the detriment of the rest of the game.

>>17476652
>despite having very little to do with the shmup mechanics proper
Oh man you're right, I forgot that danmaku shooters weren't about avoiding bullets.
I'm not even going to bother with the rest of your post, it's just a bunch of poorly thought-out bullshit to not have to face the fact that you just suck at the game.

>>17476674
Collecting ufos has very little to do with the usual objectives of a shmup proper, and chasing/running into on screen objects that aren't straight resources (like point items, power, lives or bombs) is typically a counter intuitive way to design a shmup's resource system.
But your response makes it obvious that you're simply baiting. Which, while sad in that it means that there's no hope for a real dialogue to occur here, was frankly an inevitability, as most people who attempt to defend UFO usually end up being nothing more than shitposters.

>>17473251
Imperishable Night is still the best game ZUN has created. 12 different shot types, 2 different final stages, time mechanics unlocking extra spellcards from bosses, very in depth spell practice, bonus unlockable spellcards to challenge...

>>17476695
>UFOs aren't resources
Yeah okay dude.
>sh-sh-shitposter
Fine, you got me. Guilty as charged. I'm the dumbfuck that insists games are bad for being too hard for me and writes paragraphs that amount to little else than "i'm not bad, THE GAME is bad!". Oh wait.

>>17476652
>they're completing arbitrary tasks in order to receive things that other games reward the player simply for playing well
Gee wizz, what the fuck is game design even for? UFOs offer the player a OPTIONAL reward for collecting specific timed objects, which can then give the player benefits or screw the player over for taking to long or failing to dodge bullets. It's a high risk/reward system that helps you build an array of lives, bombs, or extra points, which you can then use to help you with the tougher bosses like Murasa or Shou.
>>17476715
Even if the game wasn't extremely hard, it is well worth replaying multiple times

>>17476719
I mean you aren't proving me wrong.

>>17476723
>Optional
Yeah, just like how shooting enemies is technically "optional". This is probably the worst argument I hear in UFO's favor, as it implies that the amount of resources you get from a typical run of UFO without collecting UFOs is in any way comparable to what you'd get from playing pretty much any other game in the series normally.

>It's a high risk/reward system that helps you build an array of lives, bombs, or extra points, which you can then use to help you with the tougher bosses like Murasa or Shou.
And that's part of the issue. It overly rewards players for doing something that makes little sense within the context of a shmup, it makes the game feel far more routing based even for a casual run, and honestly it just isn't very fun to utilize. And at least when TD did something similar, it designed the mechanics in a way that complimented the resource mechanics, rather than just slapping them into a bog standard 2hu shmup.
And, while I appreciate you actually coming up with a counterargument, you're still completely stuck on this UFO thing, despite that only being part of the problem.

But, speaking of UFOs, while I bemoan suggesting fangames, if you want a game that does the "player picks his resources" gimmick done right, I'd suggest Shining Shooting Star.

>>17476761
Not him, but could you go more into detail about what you think TD did right over UFO? I always thought trancing and looking out for specific enemies that drop pieces was more routing based and needlessly involved than UFO, and also resulted in the stages being more barren than even LLS at times

>>17476761
>it designed the mechanics in a way that complimented the resource mechanics
You literally have designated places for trance.

>>17476761
>I mean you aren't proving me wrong.
Same, particularly when you're ignoring me after whining that I'm ignoring your shit "arguments".

Which you're using again, by the way. Whine and whine about resources taking skill to get because a game being hard is bad design. Arguing that dodging bullets "makes little sense within the context of" a goddamn bullet hell shooter. And holy shit, lampooning the UFOs as relying on memorization while defending TD's shit? For calling me a shitposter you aren't half bad yourself.

>fangames
Stick to those, they are really easy. Or "brilliantly designed", you would say.

>>17476813
Now, mind you, I don't really like TD's resource mechanics either, but I'll at least give it credit for designing the other mechanics around it.
To keep it short, trance, while annoying in that you basically have to use it in certain sections specifically in order to gather resources, is easy enough to accumulate before these sections and gives all characters a method of collecting resources (something that UFO doesn't do very well). As well, the fact that resources are directly gathered in TD as opposed to what's done in UFO means that you aren't punished for collecting things that you aren't specifically looking for. Honestly, one of the issues I have with UFO is how unnecessary the punishment is for collecting the wrong UFO. I mean sure, you have a mechanic that allows you to kind of bounce back from it depending on your circumstances, but generally if you accidentally collect the wrong UFO, you're taking a pretty massive loss in potential resources.
That said, TD has a host of other issues, and the main reason I put it so far above UFO is because of the reintroduction of spell practice along with the implementation of Overdrives, which gives the player a reason to use spell practice. That, and honestly I just enjoy TD's extra.

>>17476852
>is easy enough to accumulate before these sections and gives all characters a method of collecting resources (something that UFO doesn't do very well)
I was having 7 lifes with all characters in the middle of stage 3. I would say UFO does it pretty good.

>>17476885
You're kind of missing the point of what I'm saying.
Characters with bombs that last longer and allow for greater mobility tend to have more of an edge when collecting UFO fragments, where as, say, Marisa A doesn't really have an easy option for doing that. You can have a mechanic that's overly rewarding while also not being fair to every shot.

>>17476852
>UFO gives you less resources depending on your characters
More like it gives you less resources if you play like shit. Though by this point it's well established that you do.
I won't defend the punishment for grabbing the wrong UFO (it really is a bit overkill) but the fact that you have to explicitly use a PUNISHMENT FOR FUCKING UP as an argument for the game being bad really betrays your skill level.

>>17476895
Again, you simply attack me rather than my argument, even when you agreed with me (being punished for grabbing the wrong UFO is bad.)

You know, I think I know why arguing with UFOfags feels so insufferable. UFO's mechanic is very polarizing, people tend to either love it or hate it, and those love UFO will defend it solely on the mechanic. The problem lies in that, if you ignore that one polarizing thing, there's really not anything to defend in UFO. It's just not a very good game even after you peel back the UFO gimmick, and it really just doesn't add anything to the table that other games don't already.

>>17476893
Marisa A power is also nuts compared to others so you don't need to much resources. Also if you frequently bomb for UFOs then yeah no wonder.

>>17476906
Marisa A deals less damage than Reimu A, I'm pretty sure.
Her piercing helps, certainly, but that doesn't make up for her inability to freely grab fragments as other characters can simply by dropping a bomb.

>>17476912
>as other characters
But Reimu A has the same handicap as Marisa A. Duh.

>>17476852
>>17476904
May I also ask why you like PoFV so much? I personally consider it one of the least memorable and least enjoyable games in the series. Also, for what it's worth, I agree with you on the resource mechanics, but I just personally love everything else about UFO that I end up going back to it more than a lot of other games in the series.

>>17476922
I enjoy the netplay, mostly. It gets bonus points for being the only mainline game with online multiplayer, which is incredibly nice. As a stand-alone game, it wouldn't be nearly as high.That's not to call it a bad game, but it is clearly designed to be played with others, and it's very good for that.

>>17476931
I always preferred Twinkle Star Sprites for multiplayer, personally, but I'm sure I would be a lot less harsh on PoFV if I actually had people to play it with

I dunno much about nothin, but I think the UFO gimmic in...UFO is annoying because of the sounds they make. That is a big part of why I don't like that game very much.

Impossible Spell Card best game
all the rest are shit

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>>17476959

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>>17476940

>>17476974
fucking nue, get ye gone

>>17476904
>(being punished for grabbing the wrong UFO is bad.)
You don't have a fucking argument. Being punished for doing the wrong thing is bad? Are you for real?
>ufo is an indefensibly bad game because I SAY SO
Nice "argument", casual.

>>17478469
>It took him 9 hours to come up with this post.
This is why people don't like UFOfags.

>>17478946
>what is sleep
This is why people don't like casuals.

>>17475386
>HSiFS is just irredeemably shit

Every day this game is out I hear people get more and more positive about it so I don't know what you're on to.

I really feel like you're just trying to force your opinion as the truth like everyone who calls any game "irredeemably shit", especially when it's just out.

>>17479326
It's just the usual "every new game is bad" shit. It will stop with time and you'll have shitloads of people talking about how HSiFS was the peak of Touhou when the 17th game rolls around.

Arguments against UFO:
>UFOs move almost at random and are frustrating to catch
>Grabbing the wrong UFO will damage your run more than not grabbing one
>Almost all resources depend on UFOs, while you can play HSIFS without releasing or PCB without using the barrier
>Bright backgrounds and glowing bullets don't mix
Arguments for UFO:
>You're a casual and I'm really good at UFO

>>17479575
While I agree that UFO isn't great, I'd also like to point out that, thanks to lives being determined by score, and release being the only good way to accumilate score, half of HSiFS's resource system is heavily dependent on using release. That said, I do enjoy HSiFS, it's just polarizing for me because it does some stuff that I love, and some stuff that I hate.

>>17479575
Let me get this straight,
>I literally have no experience with the UFOs, also I suck so much that an object moving as slower than focused Reimu actually trips me up
>I'm doing something wrong and the game is punishing me for it THAT'S BAD DESIGN
>False equivalence
>I'm blind
Is that it? Did I get anything wrong?

>>17478469
>>17478946
>>17478982
>>17479575
>>17479744
This is not /v/. Go back and take your epic meme arrows with you.

>>17479805
I don't know if I'm just seeing things or if Comiket really attracts the wrong types of people, but I've been seeing more and more greentexting lately. The day it is commonly considered proper rhetoric here of all places is the day this board goes to the dogs.

>>17479847
/v/ likes to come here and sperg out every time a new Touhou game gets released. Remember, the proper response to a post that misuses that quote function is always "Who are you quoting?"

>>17476904
>UFO's mechanic is very polarizing, people tend to either love it or hate it, and those love UFO will defend it solely on the mechanic
Haha, funny. Those bashing on UFO near-universally do so only because of the mechanics. There's not a whole lot of criticism to defend -against-.

>>17476895
>I won't defend the punishment for grabbing the wrong UFO (it really is a bit overkill)
It isn't even much of a punishment if you're okay with picking up rainbows to keep momentum instead of giving up entirely and starting the chain over.

>>17479864
>Remember, the proper response to a post that misuses that quote function is always "Who are you quoting?"
ah yes this epic meme xD you sure showed everyone with your cool funny haha

EoSD>PoFV>IN>SA>PCB>LoLK then I don't really care, but I really liked TD and DDC the least. (Muh fav is IaMP even though it ain't mainline because of Suika )

>>17479847
>>17479864
Greentext is what happens when /jp/ fills up with people who are interested in topical discussion instead of the imageboard quality spergs that usually inhabit it.

>>17482520
It's just character attacks and idiotic bickering rather than discussion

>>17483453
Sadly, that's pretty much any Touhou "discussion".

best was the one i like
worst is the one i dislike