>Q: "Marisa" and Mima have what sort of relation?

What is this from?

He's a hack who can't think of a good way to explain Mima in the current canon so he tries to shove her under the rug and hopes people will eventually stop bothering him about it.

>>17015896
I kind of get the impression he regrets introducing Mima at all

She will never come back, get over it

>>17016595
suck my cock dude

>>17015896
He kinda carelessly made a few games when he was practically still a kid, got serious about it, and now wants to kinda forget about his sillier first experiments.

Marisa and Reimu practically only carried over from 1-5 because they were the most recognizable and usable. Alice and Yuuka returned cause why not.

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mima was a character based on ZUN's college tutor, and he rebooted his series because of a disagreement between them, as a way to erase mima from his thoughts. to this day he still holds a grudge
REFUTE

>>17016645
Is Mima really that silly of a character though? I don't see it. Maybe she's kinda generically "evil" but it hardly takes major retcons to make her a little more unique. She's still miles better than some of the mind-numbingly generic Youkai he created.

>>17016682
Creators can be more critical of their own work than anyone else. Maybe he just thought ghost wizard was dumb. There's also a lot less, eh..."real lore" in the first five games as opposed to the rest, in which there are nearly no original sorts of characters. That could be another part of the reason.

We'll never know the reason, but I think it's pretty safe to say he has a good one for trashing her forever. I mean, she was a pretty fucking major character in PC-98, certainly moreso than Alice and Yuuka.

>>17016722
Rocking final boss theme too.
I don't think it would be hard to reintroduce her either, just make her a character similar to Yuuka in a game. Reimu would probably fight her out of spite and Marisa to test herself.

>>17016722
Well, she had a recurring villain sort of role in PC-98, so maybe he didn't want to have a character with that role in Windows.

She appears on the cover of one of the Akyuu's Untouched Score albums.

So I doubt there was a disagreement, legal issue, or anything. He didn't forget about her. He just doesn't want to bring her back now that she's been retired for so long...at least not without a pretty good reason.

>>17016840
Make her an anti-hero then.

Mima stays locked in the basement forever

Discussions about Mima always end up like this, but you're all approaching it from entirely the wrong point of view. You're looking for reasons why ZUN is going out of his way to not bring her back, and naturally not finding anything. And you're right, it would not be difficult to fit her in to the current canon, and she is popular, and nothing has happened to make him dislike her specifically.

But you're forgetting that that's not how ZUN operates; he doesn't just reuse old characters without reason. The default is always to make new characters for new games. So, you should be looking for reasons why he would go out of his way to bring back Mima rather than follow his usual MO, and I contend that there are none. The only thing close to such a reason that I've seen is that "she's popular", but again, that's not how ZUN operates. He doesn't care which characters are popular, and he doesn't do things just because fans clamor for them. There's no further explanation necessary. You just shouldn't expect ANY character, especially a PC-98 one, to appear in a new game without a good reason. Why Mima specifically became such a hot topic is beyond me.

>>17016645
>cause why not
An altered version of Alice was brought back to be a partner for Marisa, as part of the three-year plan. A very altered version of Yuuka was brought back for TH09 basically because "why not", but as ZUN admitted, the entire game was fanservice anyway, so that's an unusual case.

>>17017502
>An altered version of Alice was brought back to be a partner for Marisa, as part of the three-year plan
I thought it was to trick people who played the demo

>>17016854
At this point I don't think he can forget about her.
>>17017502
This, we can only continue hoping, but I don't think it'll happen until ZUN himself is excited about the idea.

>>17017502
I dunno, I think you're missing the point actually. The thing is, ZUN's made comments on even GENJI, and yet he keeps largely mum on Mima, who should be the one that taught Marisa magic (or not in new canon, who even knows). It's definitely a little weird that he won't even bring up this character who really SHOULD be important. It's not really about whether or not she's brought back -- she isn't even really addressed.

Although I'll admit, while I thought Mima was amusing I don't care about whether she or most PC98 characters come back/are addressed. PC98 is too different from the present canon as far as I'm (and it seems ZUN as well is) concerned.

>>17017584
EoSD seem too PC-98 for me (and somehow out of place) but because that touhou is as big as is now, with other things of course

>>17017584
If you haven't noticed, he doesn't like talking about previous works, and especially doesn't like giving clear or specific answers concerning in-universe stuff. Even shortly after the release of TH06, when people were asking about the names and personalities of Dai-chan and Koa, he wouldn't say anything about them. He wasn't concerned with them and had already moved on. So especially when someone asks about PC-98, which has been irrelevant for fourteen years, it's completely understandable that he wouldn't answer. He's saying that you shouldn't care about a character who doesn't exist.

And yes, years ago, he addressed the fate of mascot character Genji by saying that "he's probably hanging around the shrine". That's surprisingly in-depth for him.

>>17017502
> A very altered version of Yuuka

Zun himself implies in the SCoOW article about her that PC-98 Yuuka is canon, and the only real difference between PC-98 Yuuka and Windows Yuuka is her surname.
He even goes as far to say that Windows Yuuka is the same Yuuka that appears in Seihou Project, which (he stated back then) in turn is the same Yuuka that appears in the PC-98.

>>17017708
>when people were asking about the names and personalities of Dai-chan and Koa, he wouldn't say anything about them
Because unlike Mima they're just random nobodies without names. Why would he?
>he doesn't like talking about previous works
We've got Alice and Yuuka. Makai was mentioned in one of the manga, Shinki got cameo etc. Mima being absolutely ignored the whole time is just suspicious.

>>17017502
Hot damn and I thought I would have to be the one to say this. Nice.

>>17017665
Congratulations on noticing, because that's indeed because ZUN hadn't yet started thinking about where he would take the series, so yes it feels a lot more like a PC-98 game. Even PCB is somewhat like this.

>>17017796
>Because unlike Mima they're just random nobodies without names. Why would he?
That's besides the point, anon. This is the same attitude he has about every other time anything from the old works are mentioned, even back in 2003.
>Makai was mentioned in one of the manga
Because he recycled the idea of Makai (which literally just means "magic world") as a magical wasteland world thing.
>Shinki got cameo
No she didn't. Wink wink nudge nudge isn't a cameo.

>>17017719
You've somewhat misunderstood the article, and also kind of the nature of what it means to be the "same character". I can't really blame people for going "character is in work X and also Y" but this is really a lot more nuanced and wobbly than that.

>>17020070
This is like one of those Deviantart things when they compare their 2010 art with their current one

>>17020112
Too bad ZUN will never know that feeling.

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>>17020987
>bad

>>17021120
Daily reminder that Imperishable Night Marisa is a masterpiece.

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>>17021131
What was that?

>>17021131
EoSD Marisa is the best Marisa.

>>17021276
You heard me

>>17021281
no

>>17018915
> You've somewhat misunderstood the article, and also kind of the nature of what it means to be the "same character". ... but this is really a lot more nuanced and wobbly than that.

Not really, Zun's dialect is actually the key thing here (he doesn't speak or write in Tokyo-ben, if that is what you were thinking, which leads to common translation mistakes; Zun is very much taking this whole thing casually).
They use what we would usually translate as 'Appearance' as 'Occurrence' instead, so he's pretty flatly saying 'this is the same Yuuka that occurs in my junior's Seihou Project'.

>>17021120
is even wider that before

>>17017511
It was. In fact, before IN, most fans paired Reimu and Alice, MariAri wasn't a big thing.

Anyway, IN would have been the prefect time to bring Mima back, but he didn't. So Mima is probably never coming back.

>>17021562
The literal words themselves aren't what I'm talking about. I'm saying the interpretation of those words into "PC-98 Yuuka is canon" and "this is the same Yuuka" is misguided and not appropriate.

That being said, ZUN's comment is only really about what his motivation was to use her at the time of Seihou anyways? His only words about her right now is that the same reasons he wanted to use her back then don't mesh with the setting now, and more musing about hanging up old characters.

>>17029966

Wrong on all accounts.
He clearly was talking about the other 'old works' characters when he briefly mentioned commented about setting issues - he then mused (lightly, and non-seriously) about bringing the other old characters back!
Talk about getting everything backwards.
If Yuuka didn't fit with the setting, he'd just let her fade into obscurity instead of writing an article on her.

t. translator