So what's with "secondary and proud" mentality

>>16925390
Don't know what you're talking about or why you're trying to understand the thought-patterns of the clearly stupid.

Spreading is perhaps too strong a word. 10 /pol/ immigrants that want to post on /jp/ doesn't constitute spreading in any meaningful sense.

I'll directly answer your question though. You say not caring to play ZUN's works etc. isn't something that should be glamorized. That is true. In fact, I have difficulty imagining anyone calling themselves a touhou fan and had zero familiarity with the games, music, and comics. However, the other side of that coin is there's no need to brow beat people into oblivion over it either. You could also just ignore them or tell them to go away but spare them the paragraph of insults, but 4chan sucks at that.

You know there's a group of people here that love going around calling everyone (most of whom are not secondaries) who says something they don't like secondaries and trying to start fights. I suppose a few of the /pol/ immigrants found their way to /jp/, got ragged on, and this is how they decided to respond. I suspect their definition of secondary is different from yours. Theirs seems to be something more like: someone who likes touhou games, music, and comics, does not have an encyclopedic knowledge of canon, and can appreciate fan works that deviate from the canon they know. The arguments over canon on /jp/ get pretty overbearing and people often seem to be talking past each other. I suppose they look at that and say "if that's primary, I don't want to be it."

>>16925482
>10 /pol/ immigrants that want to post on /jp/
/pol/shitters get BTFO on the jay.

Keep it movin.

>>16925518
Yeah he asked why they do it. He didn't ask if it was a good idea to pick on them anyway. I am a reasonable person and I don't like being as big of a jerk on here a some people do. However, /pol/ has ruined every board they've decided to colonize. Since we're incapable of giving them the silent treatment, I am fully in favor of trolling them into oblivion.

It's common to think Touhou is inaccessible. The large number of characters and lore to be aware of is daunting when starting out and STGs/bullet hell are an unfamiliar or difficult genre to play for some and a chore to get through just to get to the endings because of the lol no ending spoilers thing that some fans absolutely adhere to.

So these secondaries just end up wanting to be left alone in their bubble to watch meme videos and make walfas garbage based on stuff they barely know and when told to look something up or "not canon, dummy" it only makes the more obstinate ones dig in their heels more, because they tried that already and it was either unhelpful to them or they're too stupid to get it.

What the definition for "primary" and "secondary"?

>>16925534
It's the unfortunate state of affairs we live under but I feel great excluding those who build their lives around excluding other people. It's a lot of fun. :)

Shitters are degenerate trash.

>>16925390
Agreed.

At what point do you turn from a secondary to a primary?

>>16925482
I don't get the anger over the secondary as an insult thing.
I call people secondaries when the spout non-sense, and people have called me a secondary before. I personally take it as a sign that I need to reevaluate what I'm saying, and double check my facts.
Sure, there are some people who misuse this power, but I believe that dismissing people who call others secondaries all together is a little extreme, especially in a fanbase such as Touhou's where misinformation is so readily and easily spread.

>>16925560
>>16925707
The most literal definition would be that a primary fan consumes canon material, while a secondary fan consumes fan made material exclusively.

>>16925769
I see, what do you think about tertiary fans?

>>16925482
>>16925518
>>16925534
Hey buddy, I think you got the wrong board, last time I checked /v/ was the scapegoat. Is it going to be /b/ next week?

>trolling them into oblivion
>:)
Is this 2006?

>>16925857
>last time I checked /v/ was the scapegoat
you should probably go back to /a/

>>16925857
Hey buddy. There was a time when /v/ was the worst contamination we suffered but shit-for-brains mongoloids preoccupied with muh white future can legit kill themselves.

>>16925423
/thread

Anyone who acts "secondary and proud" is someone who, by their own admission, is not worth paying attention to.

>>16925769
It's actually easier than that:

>Play the games and read the manga?
Primary, even if you suck shit at 2hu. It's about the love not necessarily the skills.

>Don't play the games?
Secondary.

Das it mane.

>>16925880
I don't think most secondaries are aware of being secondaries, since their idea of Touhou comes from IOSYS flashes and similar things. I like to define "tertiaries" as people who consume Touhou material while being fully unaware of what it is. Maybe someone who saw McRoll when it was a meme, an /h/ browser who unknowingly fapped to Kasen or Sakuya or the Momiji helmet guy.

>>16925769
Primary: consumes canon material, keeps fanon to fan works
Secondary: consumes some canon material, prefers fanon/headcanon above it
Tertiary: doesn't consume canon, bases their knowledge of Touhou on fan material exclusive
Quaternary: guys who fall for Byakuren's "saviour" shtick

>>16925936
Is there even a need for anything below secondary in terms?
At that point I just refer to them as annoying idiots.

Great, not even /jp/ has an actual definition for the "secondaries" they always howl about whenever it suits them.

>>16925994
Many, many problems in all aspects of life arise from misunderstandings based on differing definitions of concepts. Ever listened to people with MBAs talking to each other? They're often talking past each other. It's unfortunately an extremely common problem and convincing people to overcome this communication gap can be challenging.

>>16925994
Huh? Who is this slash jaypee slash you're talking about? Why does he or she howls?

>>16925390
Just ignore their irrelevant opinions and move on, getting mad at retards is always a a huge waste of time.
If you ever end up talking about touhou with one just ignore them and close any sorts of arguments, is a lost cause.

>>16926011
I knew you people were autistic with your "who are you quoting" but you're taking the autism too far even for this board. To let you know, I actually play the games and have several of them cleared up to Hard mode and I can actually make the difference between canon and not, which makes me able to enjoy the very little (almost non-existent) fan stuff I see around. Don't act like a fool out of some misplaced sarcasm, you only look like one of those pretentious fools on /jp/ that spit on anything that does so much as slightly deviate from the canon and who sperg on Touhou anime threads because "SECONDARY MATERIAL! RESPECT MUH CANON!"

Oh and last but not least: kill yourself out this board.

>>16926034
>and who sperg on Touhou anime threads because "SECONDARY MATERIAL! RESPECT MUH CANON!"
That's some historical revisionism right there. People sperg on Touhou anime because general inconsistency, dumb jokes and cheap fanservise.

>>16925920
Sure, but we're talking about secondaries who are proud of their status. As in, people who think purposefully not interacting with the source material of the thing they claim to be fans of gives them some sort of higher ground.

>>16925390
Calling attention to >>16922394 and >>16923294 and a lot of the related discussion afterwards.

It's okay to enjoy Zounose, KKHTA, Colonel Aki, Warugakis self-inserting works as Remilia or Kogasa and anything else he's done that with that I may not be familiar with, Touhouvania, and most other things in the fandom for what they are as clearly off-source alternative interpretations.
Personally I'm someone who enjoys fanon until it reaches the point where it's the doujin artist trying to push their "ships", shill a donut steel at every other characters expense, or edgelord nonsense with the pretense of it being "a serious doujin" which tends to not work out very well as they're usually compromised from the beginning to reach a certain point with blatantly off canon nonsense.
That said I'm not a fan of a lot of peoples interpretations of "touhou".

However, you get the people who take those things that are clearly not in line with the official works and trying to push it as "canon" and that is when the cancer surfaces.
For example, you can't have a single Koishi thread without a few fans of KKHTA showing up and spamming "best Koishi", "Liebe", etc.
A more recent example is those types have latched onto Koishis fighting game appearance with her phone/knife cut in to try to push that.

Kind of related, but when I first came across 2hu back when PCB was new I thought it was a "retarded lesbians with super powers killing each other" anime because of the kinds of people OP pointed out, almost lead to me completely ignoring it.

>>16925920
I found McRoll back in 2008, been a fan ever since. I've played every game, listened to every CD, and the only print work I need to get current in is WaHH. I've even played shit like Seihou and Uwabami Breakers.

I would be fucking amazed if any of those people back from nearly a decade ago that showed interest in Touhou and still do are secondaries, it'd been 9 fucking years. I can't imagine that they'd still be jerking off about the SDM cast in youtube comments.

>>16925390
>Not caring enough to read, listen to, or play ZUN's works really doesn't feel like something that should that should be glamourized.
Is this something that you've observed in /jp/, or elsewhere? Can you lead us to any examples? Because this looks more like anything else that you've pulled a massive strawman out of your ass.

>>16927260
>For example, you can't have a single Koishi thread without a few fans of KKHTA showing up and spamming "best Koishi", "Liebe", etc.
This is not the pushing of KKHTA Koishi as "canon" and you're being a disingenuous shit if you claim it is.

>>16925812
People who write fanfics of fan materials which is LITERALLY WHAT? tier

>>16925936
>Quaternary: guys who fall for Byakuren's "saviour" shtick
KYS Taoist scum.

>>16927360
People do this unfortunately.

>>16927369
>>16927360
How does this impact your enjoyment of the series in any way, as long as people are acknowledging that they're writing fan fiction of fan fiction (which they presumably are aware isn't canon)?

>>16927337
>Can you lead us to any examples?
>>16927260

>>16927392
Those are descriptions of examples, not examples. I'm looking for an actual example of someone glamorizing their refusal to engage in with canon work.

>>16927396
...

I presume a good deal of it comes in response to the usage of the word "secondary" in the popular lexicon has devolved in the same way that "weeaboo" did years ago, and become a byword for "person/thing/concept i do not like".

>>16927377
not him anon, but there are people who do not acknowledge that they write fan-fan-fiction, and push those "truths" whenever they can, spreading misinformation.
just as an example, one day an artist told his case of a fan on his stream who said he loved kyouko so much, and couldn't stop telling un-facts about her, probably learnt on a fanfic or something alike.
while he didn't said this situation was infuriating, it was very awkward.
It's frustrating something actually very accessible goes past unknown to certain people, where the only thing that sets them apart from the truth is a little more careful research. it's like when someone asks you a source of something, when various known and useful search tools could help them to acquire what they desire. we all have been there once. all that is needed is a little more effort.

Shmups are shit, no one wants to play a shmup in year of our lord 2000+, Touhou has cute girls doing cute things, surprise, no one wants to play the shitty games but wants to check out the cute girls.

>>16925534
>trying to outshit post /pol/
They shitposted so much the U.N sponsored research papers on them
https://arxiv.org/pdf/1610.03452v1.pdf

They also stole Momiji and their memes are labeled hate crimes by the ADL

>>16925390
>TFW you simply don't have the spare money to pay for it and all you can do for entertainment is shitpost on the interwebs

>>16928666
>9. RARE PEPES
>In this Section we display some of our rare >Pepe collection

Jesus Christ, what?

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>>16922394
>>16927260
You go girl.

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>>16928666
We love to clown on people treating 4chan as serious business, but actual academic studies (although this one needs work methodologically-speaking) that collect data in a methodological fashion are fascinating and do contribute a lot both to the general understanding of our board and possibly to how we understand ourselves.

>>16928735
They seem to have a sense of humour about the whole affair.

>>16930089
I missed this:
>generally speaking, janitors are not well respected by 4chan users and are often mocked for their perceived love for the modicum of power they have
lmao

Also, why are people citing this as a UN study? The authors clearly acknowledge that their funding came from the EU, the UK and Nigeria. Am I overlooking something?

>>16930168
Five minutes of digging comes up with a blog post from the lead author where he openly states that the UN funding claim is a falsehood
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/longitudinal-measurement-study-4chans-politically-its-de-cristofaro
>We received a glimpse into this process as /pol/ users began analyzing our funding sources. Within about a day, /pol/ users declared that our work was a “UN funded” study. While this is completely untrue, this meme persisted for several days and was even picked up by various news aggregators and social media sites (e.g. Boing Boing), demonstrating first hand how effective /pol/ is at spreading (dis)information.
Come on /jp/, I know you're better than this

>spreading as of late
Of late? There's always, always been a very big divide in those who only consume pretty much only the canon games and materials, those who consume both canon materials and dabble in fanon they like, and those who consume almost entirely just fanon. This isn't a new thing, it's been going on as long as fanworks have been produced for the series. If you mean here, specifically, on /jp/, then I don't know what to say other than a slower board on 4chan can be volatile and prone to apparent big shifts in opinion based on a few people, and what you think might be a large group of people might not be.

The canon stories are generally interesting but it's no wonder that people look for supplementary fan material they might think is interesting, considering ZUN enjoys leaving so many details open ended, has so many characters, and encourages the doujin scene.

I don't think there's any problem with consuming both canon and fanon material as long as you know to keep both separate and know what's actually a legitimate character trait and what's people assuming things. So say, Meiling DOES sleep on the job, but to say she's a bad gatekeeper and "Sakuya always stabs her lulz" is fanon. You're always going to get people just chattering on about fanon, that's what a lot of the popularity of the series is built on. There are tons of threads on /jp/ constantly about how Sanae is a hungry cockslut but it doesn't mean it's real or relevant. It's dumb but it's not going to ruin my enjoyment of Touhou. The only thing I really have no time for personally is original characters that aren't actually Touhou characters being inserted into things. I don't even like most porn doujins because of that. But that's my own personal taste, everyone is different.

Also the people who said those who get insulted or whatever and dig in their heels more are probably accurate, and the same goes for those who try to toe the line close to canon and have to see fanon and secondary shit everywhere, which is annoying to them because they're passionate about the actual story in Touhou. Both sides just dig in and nothing really moves. Even following canon doesn't save you from being a retard, see that idiot that keeps shoving his own headcanon into every FS thread because he thinks he's found some secret flaw in Touhou canon.

This all being said I do think that someone who is a "fan of Touhou" should at least understand the canon setting and the stories of the games and print works, it's not hard to consume and likely won't interfere with fanon interpretations especially for common fanon-used characters like Koishi and Flan.

>>16930329
In sum: ゆっくりしていってね

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>>16925534
>However, /pol/ has ruined every board they've decided to colonize.
Notwithstanding their incessant shitposting and how they reduced gyaate momiji into a third-rate FB-tier meme, I cannot forgive them for making some topics of discussion guaranteed to turn into shit-flinging trollfests.

If the manga in pic related was released back in 2008 when I first started posting here I would guess that most people on /a/ and /jp/ would love it and the author character would become a partial mascot. However because talking openly about your mental problems and being gay is tumblr libcuck politics for 4chan post-2015, half of the responses are just /pol/ shitposters bitching about snowflakes and mentally ill trainnies/faggots and attacking other people for sharing their problems.

So basically, here is my attitude towards /pol/ and idpol shitters more generally:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GInbpjnPAyw [Embed]

>>16931469
That manga is fucking shit, dude

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>>16931494
no, it's actually very good and you are wrong

>>16931469
this manga is not hated on /a/ at the very least, it's not some hot shit, but the few threads it had were pretty "ok" and it seemed to be well recieved by /a/ standards.

>>16931667
I can remember at least four threads that devolved into shitflinging.

In the end, I still believe that the best antidote to this is to treat them the same way we treated furries and bronies in the past: constant ridicule until they get tired of arguing and go away or conform. Also, 2016 has just left me with a strong distaste for anything political and I wish the mods that aren't openly biased would enforce the rules more strictly. I'm glad /jp/ is more strict in that regard.

>>16931769
The problem is, they approach criticism in a different way than those kinds of people. Where a furry would think that it's society persecuting them, a /pol/ browser would think that an anonymous poster on an anime imageboard is either brainwashed by The Enemy, or a direct agent of The Enemy sent specifically to ruin their day.

One complains, the other believes it is only right to resist The Enemy by shitposting.

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>>16933420
Well if it's going to be that way, maybe soros should just get it over with and hire us NEETs to shill globalization and anime degeneracy on 4chan dot com. Even at $0.10 a shitpost, I've probably posted here enough to afford a round trip to Japan and two weeks stay (in hostels)

>>16925390
>>16925482
Autism

>>16925390

Secondary has been worn off as a term now after primaries kept throwing it at primaries they didn't agree with. Now it's just the /jp/ equivalent of the word "fag".

>>16935039
It still has a use in self-identification among honest fans who understand the terms. But I would like to see more differentiation among the tiers.
For instance, I play the games, but only rarely (once a month at best) when I'm bored and I never get past the third boss on normal. I technically meet the definition of primary but I don't feel like I've earned it.

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How much Touhou material must you consume and memorize before you reach the primary level? Be up to date on the written works? Compete a handful a games? 1cc every game?

>>16930168
lel, jannies confirmed academically as always doing it for free

>>16935039
>>16935171

I've always wanted a system similar to the modes of the game themselves. Perhaps have the tiers divided along those lines, with Lunatics being those Luantics who have completely beaten at least one MLG (main line game?)

>>16935171
I would suggest the following tiers:
- Haute Primaire: 1cc a game
- Mittelprimäre: Completed a game, regardless of # of continues used
- Nuevo Primero: Actively plays games, regardless of skill level
- Primary-in-limbo: Has played a game, but no real intention of consistently playing

>>16935171
1cced all games on all difficulties with all shottypes and characters.

>>16935229
Move everything down a tier, with >>16935269 as top tier, and this is perfect.

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I was going to post an autistic explanation about how Touhou can be studied as Gensokyo with primaries and secondaries in a delicate equilibrium like human and youkai.
But I can't really connect the dots about who is who. The only thing I'm (not completely) sure is than ZUN can be seen as Yukari because he's the father of the franchise, nobody understands what he does most of the time and he choses to play while having the power to dismantling everything if he wishes to.

>>16925390
Alternative Facts in Eastern Utopia was better comedy than most fan made comedy doujins.

>>16935171
1. Give the games an honest attempt
2. Learn to separate canon from fanon

That's it, really.

>>16928918
This is a good photoshop, Anonymous.

>>16945127
Thank you.