Daily Japanese Thread DJT #1794

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>>16716805
I just tried installing it in the most recent version of Wine (2.3) via PlayOnLinux to get around my distro's outdated version and it still gives me the same error. Actually, there's a script for PlayOnLinux to install Hanahira which might be what I need, but it doesn't work... or rather, the version of Wine it's made for doesn't seem to work with PlayOnLinux. When POL is trying to set up the virtual drive for Hanahira using the script, it just gets stuck at the bit where Wine wants to install Gecko - if I select "OK" Wine tries to download Gecko but never makes any progress no matter how long I leave it, and if I select cancel than POL gets an error and fails.

What did you do to get it working? I found this post in the archive so it seems like it is indeed possible as you say:
https://boards.fireden.net/a/thread/143012944/#143015332

>>16717174
Oh, hey, that's my screenshot.

You'll want to use winetricks, not PlayOnLinux. I'm not sure what I installed, but I have a habit of installing all of directx even though winetricks tells you it's a bad idea. I think I also went out of my way to install something GDI-related from winetricks.

Don't bother with the wine gecko or dot net things, hanahira doesn't need either.

>>16717216
I've already installed quite a few things through Winetricks, but I'll give that a try, thanks.

When you say "all of directx", are you referring to the "directx9 - MS DirectX 9 (Usually overkill. Try d3dx9_36 first)" option?

And for GDI, would it be gdiplus or gdiplus_winxp?

>>16717240
>When you say "all of directx", are you referring to the "directx9 - MS DirectX 9 (Usually overkill. Try d3dx9_36 first)" option?
This one.

>And for GDI, would it be gdiplus or gdiplus_winxp?
I don't know but I assume the gdiplus_winxp one should work if you have wine in windows xp pretending mode.

>>16717252
Neither of those worked unfortunately.

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>>16717409
>たのしい日本語
>fun with japanese

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>>16717422
That's a fine translation. Fun with Japanese reads well and conveys easily that it's a language learning book. Fun Japanese reads worse. No point trying to stick to the original so much that you make the English worse for the sake of どうでもいい details.

>>16717480
>Fun Japanese reads worse
That's objectively not true. Do you have a fetish for prepositions or something?

>>16717506
Yes.
Also, just a heads up, stating your opinion as "objectively true" makes it impossible to take you seriously. May as well just begin your post with "I am silly".

>>16717506
congratulations on being at the level where you can smugly point out minor discrepancies between translations and the source material, but that doesn't qualify you to be a translator

>>16717516
Do you have a fetish for informal expressions, too?

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How should I process particles in my head? Should I just see them as set phrases or words, or would it be better to assign meaning to each component separately?

Like, to use a simple example, in ここからでも富士山が見える with でも
a) で indicating location + も "also"
b) でも "even" as a set phrase

>>16717349
Oh yeah, make sure you're using a 32-bit wineprefix.

>>16717548
I am.

>>16717551
Don't know what to do then. Sorry I couldn't help.

>>16717535
Don't think, feel.

Then think about what you're feeling.

>>16717553
You don't need to apologise. Thanks for trying to help.

How the fuck am I supposed to know when 開く is あく or ひらく

>>16717561
By learning japanese.

In seriousness you can't really tell except by gut feeling.

>>16717561
The Japanese love of context

>>16717535
>a) で indicating location + も "also"

It's the て form of です, per the DoJG entry you took that example from.

It doesn't really matter since you won't be manually processing such basic particles beyond the beginner stage.

>>16717561
あく: body parts and doors
ひらく: things that aren't doors

>>16717570
>It's the て form of です, per the DoJG entry you took that example from.
You mean だ. But actually で is a contraction of にて and acts as such.

>>16717535
>How should I process particles in my head?
Don't lie to us. You trying to translate them aren't you.

>>16717585
Actual beginners literally can't not "translate" in the way you're using the word. Go away.

>>16717589
Trying to associate Japanese concepts with English concepts is also a form of translation

>>16717594
There's no such thing as "English concepts". All languages work the the same mental material, the only difference is which mental material is syntactically obvious.

>>16717535
>a) で indicating location + も "also"
>b) でも "even" as a set phrase
You won't have this problem. If you do, just take a moment to figure out which one makes more sense and move on.

>>16717596
>>16717594
>>16717589
>>16717585
Will you two please stop arguing semantics, nitpicking and criticizing each other and actually start teaching stuff?

>>16717613
I am doing so, you just don't know which teaching posts are mine.

下手な鉄砲も数撃てば当たる

>貴様
>貴
>様
>it's an extremely rude way to address someone

>>16717615
ちゃんとはつおんしてね

おにいちゃん

>へたなてっぽもかずうちゃあたる

だよ

>>16717596
Not all languages have words for every concept that people came up with throughout history, and if you don't know how to express something, chances are you're not going to think about them very often.

>>16717636
Words aren't concepts, they're names for concepts.
>and if you don't know how to express something, chances are you're not going to think about them very often.
Such a statement can't possibly be further from the truth. You don't know how to actually express the rules behind your native language's grammar. Nobody does. Not even the most advanced linguists in the world.

We can only speak with useful abstractions, which don't model what goes in internally at all. However, what goes on internally is fundamentally the same between all languages.

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>>16717506
>Do you have a fetish for prepositions or something?
Are you an ESL? Because I am and I think the only way someone could possibly find that translation wrong/inappropriate is by not being aware that "Fun with..." is a common title for guide books. Kinda like "... for dummies".

Think outside the box, anon. It'll save you a lot of time.

>>16717614
last i checked there wasnt 1 teaching post itt

>>16717655
What do books have to do with being an ESL? Also, I did not say that the translation was wrong or innapropriate. A bit innacurate, that's all. Not enough to make a difference for who's watching, of course.

>>16717662
Common japanese book titles:
>たのしい____
Common english book titles:
>Fun with ____

Uncommon japanese book titles:
>____でたのしみ (or w/e it would be)
Uncommon english book titles:
>Fun ____

The reason "Fun Japanese" is a bad translation is because it turns a common, ordinary book title into an uncommon, unordinary book title. Translation is about sense, dynamic equivalence. Not syntactic correspondence.

>>16717645
>Words aren't concepts, they're names for concepts.
Never said otherwise.
>Such a statement can't possibly be further from the truth.
This is blatantly false, and I can prove it.
There are no words in my language that express all the nuances of the words "cringe" or "cringeworthy". The literal translations of "getting embarrassed or "embarrassment" come close, but they're not quite the same. Even though I immediately understood their meaning, and I was familiar with the feeling they refer to, now that I know about them I tend to notice it a lot more.

>>16717678
Not a relevant argument. "Cringe" and "cringeworthy" are obviously not "English concepts".

>>16717662

Oh, hey translation expert. How would you translate 駄目?

>>16717535
Well と can almost always make sense as "with" so that's an easy one.

>>16717699
Not an argument.

>>16717699
That's easy, "No Good".

>>16717708
>Not an argument.
That's a weird way to translate it but I guess it depends on context?

>>16717711
So you'd say 駄目な男 is a "not good man." And Yotsuba's father is also "not good"?

>>16717719
>That's a weird way to translate it but I guess it depends on context?
Nah I was saying I would translate it as "Not an", obviously.

>>16717719
Do you have reading comprehension problems? "No Good" not "not good". Huge difference in meaning, beginner!

>>16717719
its cool you asked for a translation of a word with no context and then you nitpick someones translation by then providing a context and saying it doesnt fit lmao

not good man not good

>>16717662
>What do books have to do with being an ESL?
The point is I'm giving you the benefit of doubt - being an ESL, you may get away with now knowing culture-specific things, like this trend in naming books, because it's not something inherently linguistic.

お前金玉ちゃんと二つか

See? Even more stubborn.

why do only some off topic posts get deleted but not all the other ones that also contribute zero to the purported purpose of the thread

>こんなのを本当に食べるか？
>Do you think [he/she] will really eat this type of thing?

>そんなのは、あるかよ！
>Do I look like I would have something like that?!
I found this on Tae Kim today. What does "あるかよ" mean here exactly, and how do you go from it to "do I look like...", or any equivalent expression?

>>16717790
the way it works in various applications in japanese doesnt make sense in english

ill do my tyler kim impression of what it means there though

"as for that shit, fuck no"

>>16717790
"あるかよ" = ある (exist) + かよ (ending particle expressing doubt)

A literal translation of "そんなのは、あるかよ！" would be "Does that fact even exist?", so you can understand where the "do I look like..." comes from.

>>16717790
It's a rhetorical question. The japs love rhetorical questions, so you'd better get used to seeing them all the time.

>>16717805
its rhetorical but its not--the true beauty of nippwngo

>>16717790
I'm sure I saw someone get corrected for using のを the other day. Was that correction mistaken, or is this just a case of Tae Kim making an awkward sounding example sentence because he doesn't give a fuck?

>>16717826
>のを
There is nothing wrong with that.

>>16717826
all japanese is awkward sounding when you dont know it--theres nothing wrong with what tyler kim wrote there its very standard

>>16717790
>あるか
Do I have one?

>あるかよ
Do you seriously think I have one?

I studied the radicals hoping it would help me better recognize kanji, but so far I have gotten very little use out of it. Most kanji have their radicals warped beyond recognition, and when I do recognize them their meaning is usually either unrelated to the kanji's, or connected through some weird-ass hundreds of years old interpretation of the radical I couldn't possibly know anyway. The only time things are straightforward is with simple kanji that weren't a problem in the first place.
Have I been memed?

And before anybody asks, yes I'm a beginner as well as a retard.

>>16717885
What radicals resource did you use?

>>16717890
https://mega.nz/#!IAVVlBab!qQazRubQ3VZ_WjjLS4CclxYQF-6QGRtnmwd_zGBZpIo

From the CoR.

>>16717894
That deck is designed to be extremely easy to go through, rather than to make it so you can understand what kanji mean based on their radicals. Basically, the idea is that kanji look less like scribbles when you're done with it, and you learn how to use anki. You can't predict the meaning of kanji based on component radicals, it only helps a little.

If you didn't have that kind of problem when you started, well, it probably wouldn't help you that much. Might be a problem with how the guide explains radicals.

>>16717885
I decided to try it on a whim and it didn't help that much. It's made it easier to distinguish a few characters that have the same phonetic component. It didn't take very much effort though.

>>16717885
Both radical and kanji study are a meme for the most part. Nothing is a better use of your time than mining vocab + reading. After prolonged exposure you'll catch the differences in kanji naturally and won't have trouble with them anymore.

>>16717908
but then how will you find the kanjis you want to name yourself in a video game

>>16717913
to clarify i mean from the in game lookup

>>16717901
I see. It wasn't the guide that misled me as much as posts claiming studying radicals had made going through the 2K/6K deck much easier. I guess I really was memed. At least it didn't take me too long.

Me: "Huh, imabi updated. Let's see if his writing got any better."
Me: "New lesson... 多い and 少ない?"
>The adjectives ōi 多い and sukunai 少ない respectively mean “many” and “few” respectively.
Me: "Nevermind."

>>16717913
>>16717916
Are you talking about RPGs and other games that let you name your character? I thought you could just type the name in kana and keep pressing square(/whatever button) until you get the kanji you want.

>>16717922
Hey, you can tell he knows Japanese well: just look at how respectful his writing is!

>>16717932
That should be a semicolon, Seth.

>>16717934
No semicolons in Japanese, either!

>>16717940
Now there are.

>>16717922
the best lessons are the ones you create yourself and study

>>16717927
in life you dont always have ime to fall back on

>>16717951
>the best lessons are the ones you create yourself
This. When I started learning Japanese, I wrote my own grammar guides and resources to teach myself grammar, no being a pussy and using outside sources.

>>16717963
nice taking it out of context with the comment i was replying to

not good man not good

What does it mean when people put （略）at the end of a sentence?

>>16717977
It's short for 省略

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>>16717951
>the best lessons are the ones you create yourself and study
You have no idea.

>>16718000
What's this blurry shite?

>>16718000
you should share it with your djt friends theres no reason to blur it like a porno pussy

you could in fact make the first good post in god knows how many threads

>>16718000
Why did you blur that out instead of sharing it with your fellow learners?

>>16718009
Read the status bar. 106k characters of personal self-made lessons.

>>16718013
>>16718015
https://warosu.org/jp/thread/S16554803#p16567628

>>16717987
You might even say 略 is 省略 with the 省 省略'd.

>>16718023
Oh, right. Well, がんばって

>>16718041
Yes, just like abbr. is abbreviation with the "-eviation" abbreviated.

>>16718023
you cant see it but picture im deflating a party balloon slowly causing it to make the high pitched noise

i do give kudos to all content creators however so keep aiming for the stars my dude

>>16718023
This is absolutely the kind of guide that we need. Good to see that you're still working on it, I'd help if I could but I'm still too much of a beginner.

>>16718262
Is this a translation?

>>16718269
It's the original page from an eromanga i was reading.

>>16718282
How horrifying.

>>16718284
文句があるならグーグルに言え

>>16718262
my mind is full of fuck

http://estar.jp/_novel_top

A bunch of (amateur?) novels that you can read for free

Is this right?

二元論
心は非物理的な存在であり、世界はこの非物理的な存在と物理的な存在の二種類の存在によって構成されている。

the mind is a non-physical existence, the world is shaped by both the non-physical existence and physical existence.

At what point will I start being able to recognize Kanji? I've been studying for a few weeks, do flash cards daily, but I still have trouble recognizing a lot of them and when I look at actual Japanese text my eyes can hardly differentiate between them. Am I just fundamentally retarded? Or is this normal for beginners? I can recognize really simple stuff like 明日 or 今日 but anything beyond that is asking too much of my stupid brain.

>>16719178
How do you expect to recognize kanji immediately when you've been studying for only a few weeks?

>>16719178
Guide, etc.

>>16719188

I was insolent. Forgive me. I'll go hit the books again.

>>16719153
Anybody?

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Apparently the answer is 1 which I can only assume makes the order of the words 2413. In other words, this sentence:
彼の無罪が確定するや支持する人たちが歓声を上げた。
What does this even mean in English?

Am I retarded if I pay £220 for a month long language class?

>>16719300
Yes.

蛇に噛まれて朽ち縄に怖じる

>>16719298
2314

>>16719298
1324

>>16719300
if you come out knowing alot its not really much money

you get what you pay for in life

>>16719298
2413

>>16719300
How many hours a day is it and at what level? If it's straight up beginner shit, you can probably do that on your own unless you're the type of person who really needs their hand held, but I could see the value for more advanced classes easily.

>>16719298
>彼の無罪が確定するや支持する人たちが歓声を上げた。
One it was determined that he was innocent, those who supported him cheered.
ya means after.

>>16719308
Cool. Figured it might help me with conversation though, having a real person to practice with.

>>16719367
Not sure how much I'd learn.

>>16719383
1 day a week, 2 hour sessions. They have beginner to fluent. At what level would you say it would be best to take classes?

>>16719347

If it is 2314 then that would be: "彼の無罪が確定する人たちが支持するや歓声を上げた。" To me this doesn't make sense as I would interpret it grammatically as: "The 'his innocence is definite' people raised a cheer and raised 'to support him'."

In other words, how does「支持するを上げた」make sense? It seems grammatically wrong.

>>16719366

Not this because the third one has to be 1 unless the answer key is wrong.

>>16719394

Fuck me, this is it. I forgot や否や can be contracted to just や, I never have seen that form used in actual text yet. Thanks anon.

>>16719153
>Is this right?
Yes.

>>16719399
If you're doing it to help with conversation I'd wait until you're able to start trying to read. So a couple thousand words and basic grammar.

Doing it earlier and you'll be learning things that you'd in all llikelihood learn at the same speed or faster from a book.

If you want a sort of similar experience to what you describe, Michel Thomas audio is fairly decent for a beginner level (it basically teaches grammar with very little vocab). Pimsleur is a vocabulary primer for business people, not really anything more (still worthwhile, but flawed).


That said, if 220$ isn't really a large hole in your budget there are far worse things to spend it on while trying to learn. The most important part of those classes is probably the people you'd meet in them, if they're also likely to be serious learners.

>>16719502
Thank you very much for the advice. I'll likely take the class when I'm more confident.

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Dunno if anyone is able to answer this, but I thought I'd give it a try.

In this panel this guy is chanting to summon a monster, but I can't figure out what
「A を切り裂きしは B」
is supposed to mean.

And by that I mean just the last part, why is there a し and why is there a は.

Like why is there a し in 切り裂きし?
Does it imply a 者 right after? Like the guy ripping the veil IS the fang of rebellion? Because then the whole thing would make sense, otherwise I need an expert to analyze this.

>>16719785
It's an archaic gerund.

>>16719786
That makes more sense, do you know how I would search for it on google to learn more about it?

>>16719800
Imabi might cover it, otherwise assume shi here is a form of suru or the same shi from the Xshi Yshi pattern.

>>16719300
just go to uni and take courses

>>16719858
>go to uni
>spend 4 years paying tens of thousands of dollars in order to get to N3 level

University Japanese majors are subhuman.

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>>16719867
>all of those implications
Sorry man. I'm on scholarship, double majoring, and I enjoy the shit out of the department. Interacting with native teachers is 楽しいよ。They also guarantee N2 fluency if you are language intensive (which I am).

Lighten up anon!

>>16719894
Enjoy wasting your time and money idiot.

>>16719901
ありがとうございました！！

>>16719894
>double majoring
Are you a freshman?

>>16719951
>Are you a freshman
No. I'm afraid I don't see the connection, dude.

>>16719962
You will soon lol

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>>16719984
It's safe to say you aren't making my synapses fire here lad.

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>>16719785

The 助動詞 き is the 過去形 form in 古文, and し is its corresponding 連体形. It attaches to the 連用形 (pre-masu stem) of a verb , i.e. 裂き in your picture. は is just normal は. See an example of how this formation works in an excerpt from 舞姫 by 森鴎外 (1890) in the original 古文 and then a modern translation.

>余が車を下りしは「カイゼルホオフ」の入口なり。
>私が馬車を下りたのはカイザーホーフ・ホテルの入り口だった。

So for an awkward translation of your pic in the same sort of vein:
>What hath rent the shroud of night is the fang of insurrection that has attained a new power!
In other words standard chuuni stuff.

Source: 1 hour googling, 10+ years of experience as professional googler

how do i say 'stir up my insides' i forgot how to say it in japanese
中を舞わ混ぜて or something

also there was 4 kanji slang word for virigin
'未開封' or something do you guys know?

do japanese has scientific words like arachnids, gluteus maximus?

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おはようおにいちゃん

シスコーンたべよ

けっしてシスコンではないよ

>>16719785
おさまれあたしのだいさんのうで

>>16720118
シスコンじゃなくてブラコンだよね君は

>>16719298
そんなぶんぽう

めったにつかわないよ

>>16720126
ぼくわるいいもうとじゃないよ

>>16720139
fuck off

stop posting here

Are the N2 example questions on japanesetest4you an accurate depiction of N2 level questions? If I can do well with these, am I likely to pass?

Was worried that maybe they're easier than the actual test or something.

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>>16720463
おにいちゃんおちけつ

>>16720522
Don't do anything below N1.

>>16720570
N2 can qualify you for some jobs, so that's not true.

>>16720578
What's "not true"? He didn't make any claims here.

>>16720668
Telling people not to do anything below N1, i.e. N2, sure does have an implication that it's pointless. I was pointing out that what he said isn't true because N2 is still very useful for getting into entry level Japanese jobs, such as import/export office jobs.

>>16720570
Don't take N1 unless you're sure you'll get a perfect score.

>>16720522
>Was worried that maybe they're easier than the actual test or something.

I think they are.

I passed N1 already, but somewhat soon I'll have to take a similar test, so I tried N1 and N2 on japanesetest4you. Their N1 felt easier than real N1 and their N2 felt like what I imagine real N4 to be.

>>16720690
>Telling people not to do anything below N1, i.e. N2
That would be N3, N4 and N5 as well.

>sure does have an implication that it's pointless.
No? Where did you get that from?

>I was pointing out that what he said isn't true
He didn't make any claims in that post so how did you verify that his sentence was either true or false?

>N2 is still very useful for getting into entry level Japanese jobs, such as import/export office jobs.
Okay, but what does this have to do with that post supposedly being "false"?

>「学食じゃない？ アッコが引っ張って行ったし」
アッコが引っ張ってってどういう意味ですか

>>16720798
pull

>>16720798
はつおんにきをつけてね

>ひっぱってった

ってきこえるようにはつおんだよ

「い」はほとんどきこえないよ

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Has anyone here learned all their kanji through rote writing? Or am I the only one attempting it?

I'm at 1280 kanji now and things are going fairly well. I'm managing to add 20 new cards a day and my retention varies from the mid 70s to the mid 80s, largely depending on whether or not I did a custom study of my forgotten cards the day before.

One thing I'm noticing though is that being able to write a kanji when prompted by its meaning doesn't always equate to being able to identify that same kanji's meaning when I see it in a word, so once I get to the end of my deck I think I'll make a duplicate version with the fronts and backs of the cards switched so I have to produce the meaning rather than the kanji.

>>16720870
Very nice dude. How many VNs have you completed?

>>16720872
I've read two whole chapters of Yotsuba!

Yeah, I know, I meant to start reading a while ago but I just kept putting it off until the day before yesterday.

>>16720870
You should be memorizing the readings too, not just meaning

>>16720884
Another one falls to the lone kanji studying meme. R.I.P.

>>16720889
I'll do that by learning words.

I don't see any point in learning readings by themselves since there's no way to know which reading is intended without looking up the word (or having furigana, but if you need the furigana then you obviously don't know the word and will need to look it up anyway to find out what it means). Moreover, some words don't even use their kanji's readings (e.g. 今日), so knowing readings won't help at all with those.

>>16720905
That's why you watch 10000 hours of anime before starting to study kanji so you know all the words already

Is there any grammar resource more complete than DOJG? Half the time when I search for something I've seen it seems to just not be in there.

>>16720920
Just google the grammar point?

できるようになるまでやれば

できないあのんも

できるよ

>>16720870
>1280
That's pretty neato.

I intend learning how to write them afterwards, I'm first focusing on recognizing all Joyo and Jinmeiyo before going for the radicals/mnemonics approach.
But I have written out all my Anki reps for about 10 months, so I think it will be quick to pick it up with all the muscular memory I've already got.

How long have you been at it? Are you going for the complete joyo set?
This will definitely pay off in the end, rare to find someone with the disposition to go this route, though.

Also, it seems like you are not using mnemonics, is that true? How do you remember how to write everything and differentiate between, say, 彼 and 坂?

>>16720872
Easy there, trophy boy.

>>16720920
Everything in DoJG is basic grammar. Advanced grammar requires you to read native sources, there's no English resource.

>>16720958
But it specifically has intermediate and advanced sections... Am I being tricked?

>>16720958
むずかしい文法って

しゃべりことばではぜったいにつかわない

へんなのもAnkiしなきゃいけないんじゃないかなあとおもうよ

>それらに負けじとこれから飲みに向かう旨をスマホにがなる声、
負けじ = 負けず ?
Also what does 旨 here mean being used as a direct object?

>>16720945
>How long have you been at it?
About 2 months.

>Are you going for the complete joyo set?
Yes. I'm using the KKLC definitions for my deck, so I will be learning a few more besides the joyo set too since there are 2300 kanji covered in KKLC.

>Also, it seems like you are not using mnemonics, is that true? How do you remember how to write everything and differentiate between, say, 彼 and 坂?
That's correct, I don't use mnemonics. I use Anki and just learn them the same way people use Anki to learn vocab, so even though it's rote, I'm still being somewhat efficient in my approach.

Also, 坂 is actually very easy to remember because it's one of those kanji which just "makes sense" - it's composed of soil/land and counter/anti-, giving the meaning of "hill". It takes virtually no effort to remember kanji like that one.

I don't think I could ever mix 彼 and 坂 up anyway because they're written very differently. The problem I have is more with kanji like 漫 and 浸 because they share two radicals in the same positions. When I run into cases like that though, custom studies of my forgotten cards help a lot with un-mixing them up.

>>16721040
"〜に負けじと"は かんようひょうげん だよ
そのまま おぼえるしか ないよ
旨(むね)は むねだよ

>>16721072
I don't understand. Are you saying it's the same as 胸? 飲みに向かう胸 doesn't make sense to me...

>>16721067
That's pretty reassuring! I hate mnemonics and knowing one can rote-learn how to write motivates me. I was under the impression I'd end up having to succumb to using silly stories to remember 義 has a boopey-doopey old chap going to have a fancy tea party with a donkey's winged ass.

I already make things like differentiating 彼 and 坂 through the person/earth through the left radical, but I mostly focus on what makes a kanji different from similar ones, instead of memorizing all its components.

So I have no idea how to write the 義 kanji, although I can differentiate it from 議儀犠 etc.

Also studying via vocabulary is pretty weird, I never realized 反 was present in 彼 or even 皮. And just now you made me pay attention to the fact 坂 doesn't have a vertical stroke at the top.
I'll leave these for when I'm learning how to write. Good luck with your endeavors! 4~5 months seems like a decent amount of time to give you such a huge headstart when it comes to vocabulary learning.

>>16721110
That's a gigantic amount of time and the exact opposite of what "headstart" means.

>>16721110
When I was four months in I had already done 7000 cards in anki and was reading manga.

>>16721119
>gigantic
Maybe if you have Anxiety Disorders or ADHD.

He won't be able to actually use what he is learning straight away, but the foundation he's building will skyrocket retention and leave few to no holes in his learning process to be paved awkwardly afterwards, like most of DJT.

It's all about whether you prefer a multi-resolution approach (for quick gains and focal understanding) or a structured one (for long-term, thorough effectiveness).

>>16721189
t. eternal Anki drone

>>16721189
If you waste too much time, no amount of improved retention will compensate. That's why people here say that if you're going to do RTK at all, you should do it in 2 weeks (4 at most) then blow through Core 6k. Spending 4-5 months on RTK or another kanji only course is a ludicrous waste of time.

>真里亜「なるほど『ファミレドランド』のことなのですね。　車道そばの店舗ですから、行き来も問題ないかと」

Wtf is ファミレドランド? Even google doesn't seem to reveal anything helpful.

>>16721215
Speak it out loud and then read the sentence afterwards. It's a typo.

>>16721215
あのさあ

>>16721181
That's about 60 cards a day. Possible but I'll dismiss it without evidence since most people who make claims like that are self-deluding.

>>16721225
>ファミリーブランド

Damn, I suspected as much

Is it still good to watch namasensei videos when you're a begginer?

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I'm using the latest version of Rikaisama for Ubuntu and my preferences dialog doesn't have tabs. That means I can't set up exporting of words into Anki cards. Anyone else having this problem? Halp.

>>16721341
>Ubuntu
There's your problem.

>>16721093
旨 (むね) is a different word with a different meaning than 胸 (むね).

You can see it in formal correspondence for example. E.g. その旨をお伝えします。

Also note 趣旨 (しゅし).

Bonus info, 〜に負けじと is indeed a phrase, like a local kana-only poster says, but if you want to see its origin, just go here: http://kobun.weblio.jp/content/じ

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>>16721343
My hunch is it's Firefox. Might work if I switch to Chromium. Don't know why I thought it would be smart to ask /jp/ for tech help.

>>16721379
Rikaisama isn't for chrome/chromium and rikaikun doesn't have anki integration. Yomichan does but it doesn't work as well.

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>>16721390
If the support just isn't there, I guess I can just live without this feature.

>>16721407

Switch to windows! It will make your life so much easier. You can even dualboot if you want. /g/ doesn't have to know, it will be our little secret.

I don't understand, I have basically memorised all the kana now do I learn grammar or kanji? Perhaps both at once?

>>16721504
Read Taekim and start the core2k6k deck at the same time.

オス！
みなさん元気ですか?

>>16721282
No, wait:

>真里亜「それでは、ファミレドランドへの予約は私に　お任せください」

she said it again with exactly the same spelling, and the voice actor pronounced it that way too, so I don't think it's a typo.
If I search "ファミレド" what I get mostly looks like smart TVs or tablets, so since it's a karaoke place they're talking about maybe it's referring to the karaoke screen? I don't know.
Ultimately it doesn't matter anyway since it's just a place name, but I'm a little curious.

>>16721523
ファミリーレストラン?

>>16721379
No, it's definitely ubuntu.

>>16721531
>autisticly browsing reddit to find a reference to DJT

>>16721341
Change your gtk theme

>>16721622
actually i was just there to learn some japanese

>>16721703
You might want to stay away from /r/LearnJapanese, not only is the community full of even more eternal beginners than /jp/, but they get away with misleading people even when they're called out.

How on earth does 仕事の帰り mean "on the way home from work?"

I keep interpreting it as "work's home..."

>>16721723
帰り doesn't mean home it's more like the return home, like how the verb 帰る means returning home. "work's home" would be more like 仕事の家 which doesn't really make sense.

>>16721723
>I keep interpreting it as "work's home..."
Where the hell did you get that idea?

http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/jn/37458/meaning/m0u/
>帰ること。出発点の方へ戻ること。また、その時や、その道筋。

>>16721730
Why の, though? Why not から?

>>16721739
Would have to be からの, if you want から there.

>>16721723
One, の is not possessive, it's attributive. Two, 帰り doesn't mean "home" (what the fuck?), it means "returning", "to go back", as in the noun, not the progressive action.

>>16721739
I think you're thinking of the phrase the wrong way think of it as one noun like the physical road home from work not the action of returning home from work.

>>16721752
>it's attributive

Elucidate.

>>16721781
Attribution is more general than possession.

https://djt.neocities.org/bunpou/full_day.html#%E3%8A%A6%E3%81%AE(1)

>>16721781
(of an adjective or other modifier) preceding the word that it modifies and expressing an attribute, as old in the old dog (but not in the dog is old ) and expiry in expiry date.

>>16721758
Rather clearly it can mean the action of returning. "The return" or "returning", so to speak, as in "The return home took long." or "Returning home wasn't easy." This is evident from the first part of its dictionary definition. >>16721737
>帰ること。出発点の方へ戻ること。

But the guy who asked the question is clearly clueless. His interpretation of "work's home..." is mindboggling bullshit.

He seems to be confused about the "on the way home from work" translation. Presumably the whole Japanese phrase he saw is something like 仕事の帰りの途中. English "on the way home from work" refers to the time frame of returning home. And dictionary definition of 帰り tells us it can mean "the time [of 帰り]" too >>16721737
>また、その時や

Knowing this I don't see what can be confusing about it.

>>16721707
Examples?

>>16721802
It was actually: 仕事の帰りにビールを飲んだ。

I got the drank beer bit, but the former confused me.

>Knowing this I don't see what can be confusing about it.

Because I'm not as smart as everyone else.

>>16721802
If you try to equate it to the English word "return" it could be confusing "Work return" suggests a return to work.

>>16721812
You could have looked up the Japanese dictionary definition just as easily as anyone else.

I want to order some Japanese books for fun, just to attempt to read something physical for once. Recommendations? Preferably not too complicated and bonus points if it has a pretty cover. No classics/LNs.

>>16721843
Zettai Reiiki

>>16721822
I did, and it still confused me.

Is the rikaisama word frequency stat even worth enabling at all? Half the words I see seem to be in the 50,000-120,000 range, which cannot be right.

Can i learn Japanese without writing or put it off for later?

>>16721856
It's actually very good. However, it's based on segmentation. It doesn't know that 帰り is just 帰る, so 帰り is at like 2000 while 帰る is at 174.

In JAV titles, what does "解禁" mean?

>>16721867
time to fuck

>>16721855
Then you must be a very early beginner, so you don't need to worry about not being smart or something.

>>16721867
禁忌が解けた
That the girl got 18 years old and can do nudity/sex.

>>16721879
Hm I see it outside of debuts though, like this girl had like 50 videos before and now has a bukakke 解禁. Does that mean before they said No to it and are now ok with it? I also saw some anal 解禁s too.

>>16721884
Yeah, previously they didn't want to do bukkake or anal, but now they will.

Personally I mostly remember seeing on debut JAVs, so that's the first thing that came to my mind.

>>16721879
Almost ten months. Sometimes I feel I should be far better than I currently am...

>>16721879
Yeah he is.
>仕事の帰りにビールを飲んだ。
is a pretty early sentence from core 6k, something like card 3 or 400.

>>16721891
Nice, this will make my little chinchin all the harder now when I keep their previous reluctency in mind. Maybe they were even pressured into it by their bosses hehehe

>>16721896
Did you get "home" from 帰り by misinterpreting "帰ること" in the Japanese definition? You should look up the two ことentries in the DoBJG and read the example sentences in that case.

>>16721896
This is what happens if you don't read.

>>16721864
If you're talking specifically about learning how to write the kanji, it's a very time-consuming task requiring constant maintenance to hold proficiency. The Japanese themselves don't even do it very often-- they input the kana or romaji and let their IME transform that into kanji. So no, it's not the best use of your time, at least for now.

Production-- learning how to form your own thoughts in Japanese, and translate those into sentences-- is something you should start to do as you approach the intermediate stage, if your end goal is fluency.

>>16721949
And every time I try it's like "I'm not skilled enough to read this."

>>16721865
If that's true, it's hard to see how a word over 100,000 places down the frequency list can be practical except as very specialised jargon. Most people don't know more than about 40,000 words in their native language, after all.
Maybe the problem is that specialised words tend to get used repeatedly in their respective genres, whereas a general communicative phrase or word might be very commonly known but rarely used.

>>16721969
Of course you aren't, because you don't read and run away from it. Only way to get better is to just do it.

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>>16721969

>>16721972
Example?

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>>16721969

>>16721972
Majority of words over 100,000 that I see are just derivations or forms of more common words that you could guess with experience.

>>16721202
>That's why people here say that if you're going to do RTK at all, you should do it in 2 weeks (4 at most) then blow through Core 6k.
Nobody says either of those things.

Doing RTK in 2 weeks would require learning 157 kanji a day. Even 4 weeks would require 79 a day. That's just ridiculous.

As for Core6K, most people actually say not to bother with it and either just do 2K or go straight to mining because doing the full 6K would take the best part of a year.

>>16722002
I was at Bletchly Park a few months back, and there was this video which said, and I quote...

"[...] taught himself Japanese in six weeks [...]"

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>>16722010

>>16721979
>>16721994
Yeah, all of the ones I thought of seem to be that way after consideration. Maybe I'll come back with one later.

Anons, what was your earlier practice to train your ear for better listening comprehension? At first I tried listening for drama CD and something similar, and found it a bit too hard. So then I moved to listening nico douga livestream which is a lot easier, but half of the time I couldn't understand what was said. Any tips for listening practice in general?

>>16722093
More listening.

>>16722093
Just watch anime and rewind when you don't get something.

>>16722093
Someone once told me "music."

I'm guessing it's because everything is sang to a beat.

>>16722110
That someone is very retarded.

>>16722110
Music helps for phonetic awareness, but not much else.

>>16722093
get a japanese friend to talk to.
i found some playing japanese online games.

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あたり
Even when checking on the DoJG, I cant make sense of this thing, I've found it several times and I can't even get the nuance of it.

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What is your maximum reviews a day for most of your decks?
If i miss a day or two then i have to review around 1000 cards for just one deck... should I limit it?

>>16722140
Never limit. Just do less new cards.

>>16722140
I know it's possible to do a thousand cards a day or more - but for retention purpose, does it more beneficial to do it this way then the recommended numbers? I'm currently doing it the normal way, but I'm considering increasing my number to speed up the process. Any thought?

I spent the last 4 months memorizing Hiragana and Katakana.

Now that I have that down, does anyone have suggestions as to where I go from here? I'm assuming I would focus on finding a good grammar vocab book, but I'm looking for suggestions from more experienced learners.

>>16722195
Four months? It took me three days to memorize that shit.

>>16722195
>I spent the last 4 months memorizing Hiragana and Katakana.
How?
Well, it doesn't matter now. Read Tae Kim's grammar guide.

>>16722199

Uh, maybe I should say to read and write Hiragana and Katakana.

It took me 3 weeks to read and write Hiragana, but for some reason Katakana took forever.

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>>16722195
Four months on just the kana is too much. You should have started working on other things by two months at the latest. I could tell you what to do now, but the most important thing you need to do is stop treating japanese like something you have to learn one step at a time. You won't get anywhere like that.

https://compellingcontent.neocities.org/longguide.html#howtojap

>>16722199
Fuck off.

>>16722202
Ah, writing. Well that makes sense, then.

>>16722210

I was hoping I wasn't a retard. But yes, I was learning to read and write at the same time, so now I can write all of the characters on command, too.

>>16722203

Thank you, I will keep this in mind. Thanks for the link.

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Is my stats good?

Hypothetically

How would you practice speaking with Japanese people?

I don't want to do language exchange, cause they want to learn and speak my language as well, which for me would be a waste of time.

Language schools in Japan are expensive and I'm not sure if they are worth the money.

I would like to spent 2-3 weeks in Japan and try to speak as much as possible, but I couldn't really get into a conversation with anyone over there, when I went to Japan the last time.
At least in stores and restaurant they would always talk English to me even when I tried to speak Japanese they simply wouldn't bother trying to understand what I say.

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>>16722171
I guess that depends on if you have the free time to do all the cards like i do.
I set mine to 9999 because that was recommended by the guide from here when i first downloaded anki.
In my opinion, more reviews tend to allow me to jump into conversations more quickly or so it feels like. Maybe increase as you go if that makes you feel more comfortable.

fuck grinding anki, ill just watch game streams all day and try to understand stuff.

>>16722247
Why don't you talk with yourself?

>>16722134
I think this usage is probably 辺り.

http://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q10116713445
>【～あたり】の表現

>漢字では、【～辺り】と書きます。

>意味は、「～様子または程度では、…だろう」とか「～くらいだったら、…だろう」ということです。

>>16722247
Pay a tutor to talk to you.

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>>16722309

>>16722247
Pay an escort to talk to you.

Is it possible to do too much reading? I feel like I could keep going all day

>>16722396
It's too much only when you start burning out

>>16722396
It's not possible to do too much reading. If you want to read all day, read all day.

>>16722396
No but it's possibly to waste time on inefficient stuff. 8 hours of Yotsuba is worse than reading a book for 1 hour.

Can I start reading when I don't really know any words besides what I've heard in anime? Like am I good to start Zettai Reiiki straight after learning kana and no words (besides what I know from anime)?

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>>16722418
>reading something you enjoy is wasting time

>>16722418
8 hours of anything but example sentences is better than an hour of anything but example sentences. Doesn't even matter what you put on each side.

>>16722421
If you know some words from anime you might be able to keep track of the gist of ZR, but you're still going to have a hard time. It wasn't until I was like 1k words into Anon5k that ZR became truly comprehensible for me, but that only took like a month.

>>16722423
>reading
Manga isn't reading, lad.

>>16722424
Deluding yourself isn't gonna give you results little manga watcher.

>>16722433
Manga is the only reading actually. Nothing else exists. VNs and LNs are a conspiracy invented by anime forum moderators to kick out manga that they don't like.

Got stumped doing a simple translation exercise,
"
時刻は夕方をとつくに過ぎるのに、
未だ眼り続けるめぐみん。
"

wtf is this り in 未だ眼り続ける , any chance someone can help me out?

>>16722433
Manga is like watching anime with Japanese subtitles and the audio muted.

>>16722447
First off, doing "translation exercises" is retarded. Secondly, always post context / screenshots of where you got it from because there's a good chance beginners like you misread/hear it.

>>16722464
>First off, doing "translation exercises" is retarded.
This is true, and they should stop, but literally anything to keep the beginning stages "fun" is a good idea for actual beginners.

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>>16722202
>Uh, maybe I should say to read and write Hiragana and Katakana.
>and write

>>16722447
I misread it as 眠り. Maybe some ateji going on

>>16721972
>>16721994

I can't agree with this, I have plenty of words in my decks with over 100k frequency, not counting segmentation stuff as in 帰り from 帰る, etc.

>>16722447
Learn to type.

>>16722470
More likely he couldn't read it, tried to look it up by strokes/radicals and chose a wrong kanji.

>>16722447
>wtf is this り in 未だ眼り続ける
眼り

>>16722464
God dammit, is there anything /jp/ approves besides reading VNs all day?

I started studying Nip recently and I kinda feel like I got stuck on what to do next. What's better to do with Kanji? Tried learning through vocab and through Anki.

Do you guys just grind decks or do you use a guide/textbook on the side? so far I've tried some Anki decks but it feels lacking somehow to just grind Kanji out.

Also which decks would you recommend?

>>16722479
Can you give an example?

>>16722484
Mining vocab and reading content. Read the guide.

>>16722483
>眼り
眼り draws me a blank in jisho, can you elaborate?

>>16722486

月暈
燦燦
徒爾
恙無い
烏滸がましい

>>16722497
Never saw any of those

>>16722497

Scratch 燦燦 as that is actually 42k and is just up there because it mined it as double kanji instead of as 燦々. The rest should still apply

>>16722497
>>16722502
恙ない and おこがましい too.

>>16722480
>>16722480
that was it, thank you

眼りクリスマス

引きの画像
ってどういう意味ですか

>>16722495
Oops, I didn't notice you had typed the wrong kanji I was just showing the "nemuri" of your compound was a word. Cltr+c Ctrl+V'd from you.

>>16722509

Yeah I didn't consider that. Damn alternate forms, so those ones aren't even that rare then. Have a few more for your trouble.

篆刻
遡航
炭疽菌

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>>16722529
Yep, thank you, that together with >>16722480 was enough to send me on the right branch in a decision tree.

>>16722526
youtu.be/Acg5l2WkoII

意味はこんな感じです

>>16722469

I don't know if I should feel bad for learning to write the kana now, but this was entertaining.

>>16722618
Don't feel bad there's nothing wrong with learning to write at all, especially just kana.

>>16722483
You say that like reading VNs all day isn't the best way to learn Japanese.

保健室登校ww

How many kanji do I need to know before I start reading VNs and manga?

>>16723029
0

>>16723029
What does it mean to "know" a kanji?

>>16723031

I am just unsure what I should be doing after reading the guide. I have read up to "expressing state of being" in the Tae Kim guide but I haven't started with anki yet. Is it better to be reading now or learning kanji or finish this guide first?

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>>16723029
Read manga with furigana and you'll only need to know zero.

>>16723070
Clearly you haven't read the guide because you start 2k core in Anki and TK at the same time. You start reading after you finish the latter, which should be a few weeks in.

>>16723070
Start doing Anki and continue reading Tae Kim.

how do you count furniture?

how do I say two closets? is futatsu okay?

>>16717506
Fun Japanese implies there's a boring Japanese and other x Japanese.

襷

>>16723468
よめない

よめないよおにいちゃん

禅？

Someone please explain しか to me. My brain refuses to understand.

>>16723506
しか is a negative polarity item.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd8cjyxHQdw

>>16723506
読めない can't read
仮名しか読めない can't read except for kana
It's similar to how we use "except" in English.

これしかできることがない
there is nothing I can do except for this

>>16723496
褌

>>16722464
There's nothing wrong with translating example sentences and comparing your translation with an existing one to see if you actually understood the thing properly.

>>16723611
>with an existing one
This is exactly the problem with it. The existing translation is not meant for learners. Any good translation will change the japanese into english using knowledge that a beginner at japanese simply will not have. I don't mean things that are obvious by example like what words mean. I mean things like >>16717667

>>16723619
Things like Jisho example sentences are meant for learners, though.

>>16723639
They're meant for english learners, not japanese learners.

http://www.manythings.org/corpus/warning.html
http://www.manythings.org/corpus/warningtatoeba.html

>>16723543
じょせいようは

こしまきっていうよ

how do I say "infact, my room is pretty much my entire apartment"

じっさいにわ、わたしのへやでわたしのあぱあとめんと？

ＰＬＳＧＯＥＡＳＹＯＮＭＥ

How do I join a google-translate translation group with low expectations?

>恐れ入る
according to google, its mostly thanks and uncommon like 恐縮
but its many definitions made me poop a little. Any natives here that use this?

>>16723700
Pick any scanlation group from the recent releases on mangaupdates and watch them slobber over your N4.

>>16723748
Not really uncommon, although it's usually 恐れ入ります. Seems to be used mostly in the Daijisen definitions 1 and 2: https://kotobank.jp/word/%E6%81%90%E3%82%8C%E5%85%A5%E3%82%8B-452750

>>16723758
i see, cheers
also has another kanji variant

What does djt think of this method?
http://ja-dark.tumblr.com/post/55755464821/vocabulary-deck-with-japanese-word-formation

which links to the anki deck:
https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/3138861285

The deck looks useful. Has anyone tried this yet? I'm postponing this deck because I feel like it's still too early for me to tackle.

>>16723919
I guess it's useful to have the kanji meanings on the card but the word formation principles it's trying to teach seem really obvious. Not something you're going to miss out on if you skip the deck.

>>16723974
Is that so? Thanks!

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how to translate Verbなくもない? same as Verbなくでもない?

http://nipponnostalgie.hatenablog.com/entry/20130427/1366994944

なんか当たりやすいような気がしてきますね…！ただギャンブルとしてのうま味のある配当はないので、回りのオッサンたちを観察するに、ほぼ三連単(123着をそのとおりピッタリ当てる)100円ずつ流し、みたいな買い方の人ばかりでした。やっぱりドカンとでかく狙ってるんですね。

>ただギャンブルとしてのうま味のある配当はないので
I don't get うま味のある配当 in this context. There arent as many interesting dividends?

>やっぱりドカンとでかく狙ってるんですね。
Everyone was stubbornly aiming high? For a big win by predicting the 1st 3 places in a 三連単 style bet?

>100円ずつ流し

it suggests that a ticket is 100yen?

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>>16724042

>>16724042
It's a double negative of the verb.

>Verbなくでもない?

Where did you even get this?

>>16724084
>>16724042
nvm finally found it.
なくもない＝ないこともない＝ないことはない＝ないでもない

>A double negative phrase used to make a conditional affirmative statement.
>It isn't the case that~ not~; it is not that~ not~

>>16724129
I was being retarded
should have given an example instead of a moe cat

Atelier Firis has Japanese text on PC if anyone wants to play it for reading practice. The text was patched in after launch so I don't think any cracked releases will have it

What's the deal with koncha?
(こんちゃ)
Some sort of slang word for hello?

>>16724229
At my level i have enough trouble with recettear. But its just the font that slows me down
kinda sad that you'd have to pirate the version you want even if you bought it if you wanted to prac though

>>16724246
こんにちは
こんにちゃ
こんちゃ

>>16723161
Yes, that's fine. For more defined objects, you can also use 個.

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What kanji is this?

>>16724721
廻る

>>16724729
thanks, I figured that was the case.