Can someone explain the whole "create/destory history"

>>15935295
Combination of:
-IN's in-game translation had a ton of problems (Dialogue changes had to be of a certain length and could actually crash the game) which lead to initial english translations not being too tight, and Omake.txt doesn't clear it up
-Vague 2hu powers in general. Keine hasn't demonstrated it much in canon works so you get weird interpretations of it in doujins, ranging from 'Able to create oil refineries from nowhere' to 'writing supernaturally accurately'

Vagueness. Always vagueness.

>>15935295
If we consider what's stated in PMiSS:
>History is reality, seen from a single point of view
>The Hieda family's Gensokyo Chronicles is beyond her powers. Thus, it is not her history but ours
I would conclude that creating/destroying "history" for her is a matter of manipulating events of the past from her POV.
This is why the Human Village's "history" can be concealed but still exist.

Rather, let's put it this way:
- There's a glass on the table.
- Keine and, say, Reimu observe the glass.
- From Reimu's POV, the glass has water in it.
- Keine consumes "history" so the water in the glass never existed
- Keine's POV overpowers Reimu's, and the water in the glass is gone
The same thing goes for destroying "history", only fill the glass with water instead.

... Yeah, most of this stuff is just theories and headcanon, but fuck it.

File: 1472772986580.jpg (78KB, 500x376px) Image search: [Google]

78KB, 500x376px

>>15935590
That sounds like a dumber and sillier version of Koishi "control of the subconscious" fan interpretations.

>>15935611
Eh, truth be told, I'd rather have a retarded interpretation over how things work instead of saying something like "ZUN doesn't know how to write".
Coming up with those interpretations is fun at least.

>>15935658
>"ZUN doesn't know how to write"
There's nothing wrong with this. He's given himself a catch-all excuse with spell-card rules.

He just makes his music, makes his powers then designs his girls.
I think the issue is everyone wants to understand all the characters' raw power rather than their theoretical abilities to manipulate the rules of the universe. Something in the lines of "if this character can control this, then they must punch reeeeeeeeally hard".

>>15935685
Wasn't trying to imply it's wrong, just that it feels dull in comparison.

Doesn't really help that it tends to be used as a definite answer, which kinda kills any argument.
>Why do you think this-and-that happened?
>Because the writer can't write shit.
And stuff like that.

>everyone wants to understand all the characters' raw power rather than their theoretical abilities
I agree with this, at least.

Then again, power level argument is never my favorite.

>>15935750
Offer ZUN to make explanations for their powers in exchange with 2-years supply of Guinness. E-Z P-Z.

Discussing what 2hus can do is a moot point anyway. Sometimes they strictly fantasy powers other times they have powers that bend real world laws.

Quick comparison would be Utsuho to Yukkari.
Theoretically Utsuho has the power over gravity, create a blackhole, this-and-that over anything that has relationship to nuclear physics making her one of the most powerful characters in the series.

Yukkari makes gaps, the fans go fucking wild with the abilities she can do.

File: diavolo.jpg (241KB, 946x720px) Image search: [Google]

241KB, 946x720px

Basically King Crimson in reverse.

>>15935794
See also: Yoshika

>>15935794
>2-years supply of Guinness
With how much he drinks, I won't be surprised if he only explains one character's power for that.
Even then, he'll probably still keep it vague.

Well, joke aside:
>Discussing what 2hus can do is a moot point anyway
I guess it's safe to say we're on the same page then.
Honestly, I just like coming up with reasoning - stupid or not - to explain stuff. Getting it right or wrong doesn't really matter.

So let's leave it at that.

>>15935860
pls no, pls go.

>>15935870
Give him a life-time supply.

>>15935829
Pretty good explanation

>>15935794
>Theoretically Utsuho has the power over gravity, create a blackhole, this-and-that over anything that has relationship to nuclear physics
Her power is manipulating nuclear fusion though, not nuclear fusion and everything tangentially related to it.

>>15938578
See, you say that, but since ZUN is extremely vague about powers so there will always be people arguing over what possible abilities she may have.

>>15938578
She literally sucks you in at the end of SA. She has to have some level of gravity manipulation.

>>15938578
It could be. Zun also said before that Sakuya's power to control time also lets her control space and make the mansion bigger inside than it is outside.

>>15938578
I'm not a physics geek, but if Okuu can manipulate nuclear fusion to create a star, then won't she be able to do pretty much all that?
Creating a massive star with its own gravity, then causing a supernova and collapsing it into a black hole.

I mean sure, it's not Okuu herself who do that, but it's still a product of her power.

>>15948097
If Utsuho herself has mastery of controlling nuclear fusion and keep it stable, then she also has the power to willingly collapse the star by making it unstable.

Her powers enter fantasy levels at this point, however. As to create a black hole you'll need a huge amount of mass, a giant star way bigger than our own sun to cause a supernova and either a neutron star or blackhole.

So let's just say she can do all this at a way smaller scale. She's likely one of the most lethal characters in the entire series. At least in the solid top 5 or 10.

>>15948124
Also, she doesn't make a star per say, but rather a small fusion reaction which is smaller than any possible star. If she was not maintaining it, the fusion reaction would simply stop from lack of energy via temperature and pressure.

Also, she could be performing this reaction usinf the air around her, which really would cap its potential.

...how did Kanako get the sun god again?

>>15948377
Once you start considering fantasy elements of Utsuho's range of power, she goes over the range of planet-buster, system-buster and up to galaxy-buster. So that's fun. Even if toodly-hoodly powerlevels is dumb to discuss, it's still fun to talk about.

Also, if she has the power of a god, then she shouldn't be capped by the air. God powers tend to break rules all the time.

Got him drunk, told him it'd be a sweet idea to lend his powers to a dumb bird girl and he totally bought it.

>>15948377
Probably beat it up like she beat up Suwako.

Kanako probably used to be one of those punk martial artists that went from dojo to dojo, beating up the leaders and breaking the signs except with shrines and their gods.

>>15948461
One-Punch Man meme needs to STOP

>>15948461
This always makes me wonder why Kanako had no way to tame the mishaguji.

Though the wiki states that people simply did not believe she could tame them, hence denying her faith.

>>15948377
>...how did Kanako get the sun god again?
Keep in mind, Hecatia's children were all sun gods.
So she probably stole the corpse of one of Hecatia's children.

>>15948562
>Hecatia
Whoops, I obviously meant Junko.

>>15948564
I thought Junko wasn't related to shintoism.
Kanako took the body of Yatagarasu and made Utsuho "consume it".

>>15948594
>Kanako took the body of Yatagarasu and made Utsuho "consume it".
Lol no.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-legged_crow
That's why she has the control rod, even, it represents her new "third leg".

File: Screenshot_10.png (13KB, 909x139px) Image search: [Google]

13KB, 909x139px

>>15948606
Nigga, fuck you.

>>15948616
There is no mention of the god being Yatagarasu in the games proper.
Also that would make no fucking sense.

>>15948616
Whoops thought you meant Amaterasu.

File: 1473803658454.jpg (371KB, 1280x1891px) Image search: [Google]

371KB, 1280x1891px

>>15948622
>>15948625
Go to sleep, Anon.

>>15948622
Read Symposium of Post-mysticism. Yatagarasu is mentioned.

>>15948461
Suwako probably beat the shit out of her, then conceded the fight, because she was bored with doing goddess things

>>15948534

Going by that logic, if she used Suwako but claimed to control the sneks herself, ppl would naturally start believing that she could, because "she" did it. Thus giving her the power by default.

>>15935295
>>15935590
>>15935611
ZUN has a specific interpretation of what "history" means; it's remained pretty consistent throughout the series. History, from how ZUN uses it, is the collection of events from the point of view of whoever is writing down those events. The recollection of history is the understanding of these events learned from the history previously written down. So it isn't "reality", but it's what people believe to have been real in the past.

Keine's ability is for the most part an ability of illusion. In hakutaku form, she is the history-writer. She writes down the history of people, places, events, and the affected parties "learn" of this history, and as such believe this is what really happened. However, this doesn't affect their previous knowledge, merely what they will learn. Keine's human form devours history, in that she can remove history that has been written down. Because she transforms every full moon, Keine can reliably delete history and then rewrite it within the span of a month, or write down history and then delete it as she wishes. In IN, she hides the human village's existence by deleting its history and making it seem as though no humans had ever come there long ago. By the Extra stage, she rewrites this history, and the human village appears again.

Yukari was not affected by her ability and could see the human village because she already knew humans had settled way back then and wasn't tricked with a false history. In the same way, Akyuu is not affected and her writings supersede what Keine can write.

>>15948377
>>15948594
>>15948606
>>15948622
>>15948645
In the games, it's presented as Utsuho consuming Yatagarasu. Yatagarasu is mentioned in like three routes and multiple endings.

Gods in Touhou have no one defined body. They can split into however many as they want and that's totally fine and dandy, and is exactly what you'd expect from a literal interpretation of Shinto. Utsuho consuming the Yatagarasu doesn't mean she killed it or anything. SoPM clarifies everything and outright says Utsuho became a living shrine for the Yatagarasu, just as you could turn many different objects into shrines. The difference with Utsuho is that to be a living shrine she had to be so empty as to be like an inanimate object, hence the "Kanako picked her because she was so stupid" thing. Basically, Kanako set up Utsuho as a shrine that a "copy" of the Yatagarasu inhabits.

>>15948077
But she's only moving fast, right?

Somebody is lying here.

>>15948077
>>15949972
>(You)
Seriously dude you have to stop. Not even tangentially related.

>>15949972
If speed = distance / time, then time = distance / speed, and distance = speed x time, hence she can control time, space(distances), and speed.

>>15950254
Where does that leave Komachi? She can control distance.

File: 300px-OoT_Lost_Woods1.jpg (15KB, 300x225px) Image search: [Google]

15KB, 300x225px

>>15950265
Komachi's thing is more metaphysical. She's able to pass through barriers that warp space so you can only reach the inside by following a specific path.

>>15935794
>Yukkari makes gaps, the fans go fucking wild with the abilities she can do.
To be fair, Yukari has a lot more going on than "she makes gaps"

File: 14693812_p0_master1200.jpg (153KB, 480x480px) Image search: [Google]

153KB, 480x480px

So how does Yuugi's ability work?
Is it "unexplainable"?

>>15953040
You realize that Yuugi herself is the one describing her ability, right? Her description is less "I can do specific thing" and more "I blow everyone away with how logic-defyingly awesome I am". And for most of Touhou's cast this would be empty bravado, but she's known as "Yuugi the Strong" even among oni, so yeah.

>>15953040
Isn't Yuugi's "ability" just being able to blow shit up due to how physicaly strong she is?

>>15953040
Yuugi's ability is appropriately explained on the wiki. It's half a joke and half "I can make bullshit happen because I'm just that strong". There's a bit of flavour on it sprinkled throughout her DS spell comments, where Aya and Hatate basically say her powers are crazy and make no sense.