Is China the greatest civilization on Earth? >3500 years

yes

/thread

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>>79401602
>be greatest civilization
>colonized for 700 years

>>79401602
they havent been so great these last few years

>>79401602
>great inventions like papermaking, gunpowder, the compass and printing
And thats all they managed to do in 3500 years?
Several European countries managed to invent more in 200 years

>>79403805
Which 700 years? Even Qing in the 19th century wasn't properly colonized. And even if it's your claim, then China was really in a period of foreign influence for about 100 years, not 700.

>>79404010
And the European inventions wouldn't ever happen without these basic, groundbreaking ones.

>>79404238
Chinese still thought earth was flat until like 17th century, lol
Sure, they discovered a few practical things by chance, but they failed to create any groundbreaking new theories

>>79404159
mongols (200) > themselves > manchurians (300) > a bunch of countries (100) > soviets (100)

>>79403805
it was never colonised in it's entirety

>>79401602
China is a good example of a civilisation that's been technologically proficient but intellectually bankrupt throughout its entire history.

>>79404010
Much more than that:

Mechanical clock
Alcohol
Porcelain
Modern Agriculture
Moveable sails
Rudder
Tea
Silk
Iron smelting
Bronze
Earthquake detection

etc. etc. etc.

>>79404726
>Alcohol
>Rudder
>Iron smelting
>Bronze
doubt.jpg

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>>79404344
>mongols (200)
Yuan Dynasty was a uniform country, it wasn't Mongolia colonizing China, it was a Mongolian elite ruling China(and Mongolia).
>manchurians (300)
Same shit and they got chink'd in the end. Chinese culture has prevailed.
>soviets (100)
I don't think you know anything about USSR-PRC relations.

Yes, China got conquered quite a few times(but European or the Japanese haven't managed to do that). Point is, they managed to maintain a cultural(and to some extent, political) continuity for millennia, that's something extraordinary.

>>79404010
lol wtf have has germany invented? Only refined chink tech

China used to be too successful, stable and centralised for its own good.

They could have colonized America, but they choose not to because it might destabilize the country.

>>79404936
Better clean your room then

>>79404890
Theory of relativity and Quantum mechanics.

>>79404344
yuan is not 200 years...at least check wiki?

manchu is chink now.

if you list soviet here, my country probably rules yours right now?

>>79401602
>3500

You mean 3100?

And it's just a bunch of short inscriptions?

>>79404954
they choose not to because of all under heaven
there wouldn't be destabilization because peasants was not made a aware of any voyage

>>79404772
The Chinese invented sternpost-mounted rudder. Actually, they did quite a lot of seafaring innovations, European used them later in the Age of Discovery.

>>79404996
>some fucking theories
TOP KEKE

>>79404010
but germany was able to achieve that because of the rest of the europe. it's not like the rest of asia is actually useful for china in that regards...

>>79405023
'Meant'

>>79404010
we both know human beings are progressing in a faster and faster rate. What you can achieve today for months you would never be able to achieve even in centuries back then. Europe surges in a much later stage of humanity.

>>79405049
So a very specific kind of rudder, not the rudder in general?

>>79404407
they focused on arts, literature and management. if those are not about intellect, ok...

>>79405082
China alone has twice the population as Europe combined.
So despite Europe beeing fragmented into several waring countries, many of those countries managed to come up with more inventions in centuries than chinese in millennials

>>79405137
Still, I would argue that the tiny city states of ancient Greece made bigger contributions to philosophy and science than all of China

>>79404407
if you ever play civilization, they are like the country who want to win the game by culture dominance. their exports like porcelain sucked Europe dry back then. the largest shareholder of east India company was a chinese. They were rich as fuck.

Crete is better

>2000 years of written history
>invented toilets, running water, aqueducts, homes had both of cold and hot running water
>exquesite paintings which were imported and copied by Egyptians and Mesopotamian
>civilized mainland Greeks who in turn civilized the whole world
>had ports where people from all the Med, from Italy to Syria were present
>gave written language to Cyprus
>Made exquisite ceramics which were exported everywhere and will be the precursors to painted Greek wares
>built the biggest palaces in the world, Nero will be ispired by the Knossos' palace

All this when Chinks only built woodhuts and were illiterate

>>79405216
European "achievements" are built on slavery and exploitation.

Chinese ones are built on dialogue and cooperation.

>>79405276
they are the backbones of modern science and scientific methodology. I'm pretty sure you made a fair statement under the current era where science and technology are the center of everything.

>>79405324
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_China

>>79405304
>2000 meant

4000

>>79405216
true. but fragmentation was one of the reasons for scientific progress. China has the most progressive status when it was fragmented as well. Let's say things just happen, and it is very useless to argue who is better when you cannot really choose what happen to you.

>>79404726
>Mechanical clock

Greeks, later Swiss

>Alcohol

Literally everyone

>Porcelain

Fair enough

>Modern agriculture

No

>Tea

Yeah and Americans invented chocolate following your "logic"

>Iron

Near Easterners invented it 1000 years before Chinks

>Bronze

Same

>>79405276
Are you on drugs? What are the scientific achievements of the ancient Greece that supposedly are of greater relevance that papermaking, compass, gunpowder and printing? Greece surely had its impact but it was primarily a cultural one.

And Chinks had a shitton of philosophy as well, you just don't know it(Confucius, Han Fei, Laozi, Zhu Xi).

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>>79405304
Don't forget about the dresses.
Their greatest contribution.

>>79405529
>What are the scientific achievements of the ancient Greece that supposedly are of greater relevance that papermaking

Fluid mechanics, clocks, steam, lever principle

>compass

The Greeks and other ancient Meds had it

>>79405529
>are of greater relevance that papermaking, compass, gunpowder and printing
Those are achivements of engineering, not science
For example, Greeks figured out that the earth is round, and were even able to measure its size, while Chinese still believed that the earth was flat until Europeans thought them that the earth is round

>>79405567
Crete was cheating, it's in the Eastern Medi.

>>79405529
Every one knows the Tao Te Ching, or at least should know it.

>>79405666
Why don't you like the Chinese? Your boy Hitler loved them

>>79405644
China is right next to the ancient and powerful Hwan empire. That's beyond cheating. We're playing a fixed game.

>>79405289
maybe jews were the new chink, instead of chinks being the new jews

>>79403805
?

Even the Machu horsenigs didn't last that long, and they were LARPing as chinese

>>79405599
>Fluid mechanics, clocks, steam, lever principle
Clocks? You mean water ones? There are claims that China had them long, long before the "West". And if anything they were first invented in Babylon or Egypt.

Steam? What "steam"? Greek "steam engine" was never used practically. And Chinese did churn drilling for example.

>For example, Greeks figured out that the earth is round
And Chinese independently developed their mathematics and the concept of negative numbers while Greeks thought it was an absurd.

>>79401602
3500 years minus a few decades of communism makes it a zero sum game.

>>79406231
but eu only plays win-win game with china now

>>79406185
>Clocks? You mean water ones?

During the Hellenistic period around 320-200 bc Greeks and Greek city states developed a lot of mechanical devices such as mechanical clocks, see the antichitera mechanism

> There are claims that China had them long, long before the "West"

Source?

>And if anything they were first invented in Babylon or Egypt.


Source?

>>For example, Greeks figured out that the earth is round

And calculated Earth's circumference, I don't think Chinks did that

>>79406360
>>79406438
you guys really need to help Greece with their financial problems. you owe them

>>79406490
ok, you have our permission

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Everyday I'm in China. I'm impressed with how far they have advanced.

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Only the most advanced sewage systems are fit for zhongguo

LOLno. Without China, the world today wouldn't be all that different but without Europe it would be really different.

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>>79408558

>>79405216
There we go. Europeans created about 80% of all scientific and technological discoveries in recorded history.

>>79404868
>Chinese culture has prevailed.
Not since Mao Zedong anyway. ;)

>>79401602
>compass
the fucking lodestone was nothing, literally nothing like a modern navigational compass which was developed independently in Europe.

>>79401602
Based China.

Western civilization invented planes, trains, automobiles, electricity, computers, the internet, the telephone. The list goes on. Nuff said.

>centre of the world
They never were.
They had a historically huge economy and population, that never amounted to anything, as the country was severely immersed in civil conflict, or just lazing around doing nothing.
Collapse, after collapse.

>3500 years of written history
The Egyptians have +6000, the Indians, the greeks, and many others as well. really old fucking cultures.

Why do Chinks bother going to other countries if they're not even gonna assimilate? Japan's only war crime was not slaughtering more chinks.

>>79404868
>it wasn't Mongolia colonizing China, it was a Mongolian elite ruling China(and Mongolia).
India was basically the same. Yet, no one disputes this fact. Colonizing isn't a exclusive to Europeans. The mongols conquered and colonized China.

>Chinese culture has prevailed.
What culture? They have gotten conquered all their history. Their culture is losing.

Chinese culture is not a culture, but a supra-culture. It's like saying western or European culture.

there is so many ethnic groups in china. And so many people have been conquered and forced into the main culture, that saying "chinese" culture does not say anything about the entire country. Half the country doesn't even speak the same language.

Can't wait until China becomes the dominant world superpower tbqhwy fampai

Ancient China was barely relevant, it was as relevant as any other ancient civilization, on par with the fucking Inca despite having a much larger population, only now after Europeans have invented the scientific method and caused the industrial revolution Chinks are making some significant scientific contributions, just like any first world country in the Western world, but Chinks are doing it at the cost of polluting their cities horribly, and basically enslaving their working class

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It's the time to change to a democracy nation for Chinese.
I hope the democracy movement comes again in China.

China was actually well behind the Middle East and Europe in terms of development as a civilization. For example, the earliest writings from the Middle East date to roughly 3000 BC. The earliest oracle bone inscriptions in China, 1500 BC. China also entered the Bronze/Iron Ages considerably later.

>>79410639
>Get democracy
>Straight away votes for natsoc party
Have you seen the younger chinks' attitude

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>>79410659
Their architecture also sucked in the bronze age compared to even European bronze age architecture, the only thing they were good at was making bronze trinkets like pic related, they were completely irrelevant back then, I mean even the Olmecs in Mexico came up with a more advanced civilization around that time

>>79404010
I bet you think metal moveable types printing press was invented in Gerany too right?

>>79401602
Yes, death to the west and all caucasians

>>79410659
if you compare "China" to West Eurasia (from Sumer to the UK), China has certainly been "behind the West" in many ways in some long periods

this is a game of definitions mostly, what a self-contained civilization is etc. West Eurasia has continuity in many ways from the first urbanization and the invention of writing in lower Mesopotamia all the way to Newton and "China" itself has always been quite multi-ethnic too, the Han did quite a bit of expansion and assimilation that ended up marginalizing all sorts of groups

Ian Morris's Why the West Rules for Now does what OP did basically while using a comparison of West Eurasia vs East Asia rather than "China" vs any other "civilization"

Europe happens to occupy a very favorable geographical location that gives it easy access to four continents. China doesn't. Europe and North America happen to also have the best agricultural potential of any place in the world.

It also helped that Europe is relatively resource-poor which motivated them to travel the world seeking riches. China was resource-rich, hence had little motivation for overseas exploration/trading/colonies.

The Chinese writing system has an advantage in that it depicts ideas rather than sounds, making it possible for people of different languages to communicate with each other, however it's also absurdly complicated compared to any Western writing system, so traditionally literacy was limited to the upper class/mandarins.

Europeans gained a technological lead due to fighting many medium-sized wars, while Asian wars tended to be few, but large, and in less developed tribal places like the Americas and Africa, there were infinite small raids and skirmishes.

>>79411059
>West Eurasia has continuity in many ways from the first urbanization and the invention of writing in lower Mesopotamia all the way to Newton

Generally, history books include the Middle East in antiquity as part of the story of Western civilization, although after the Islamic conquests, the Middle East became separated from the Western world and its own distinct civilization.

>>79411059
you could argue "China" has had more stability than West Eurasia where often until-then peripheral groups were the new innovators, like the newcoming Greeks after the Mesopotamians or the East Iranic world close to Central Asia and Iberia within the Islamic system that took over half of (the then dominating) Greco-Roman and Iranic worlds or late medieval-early modern Western Europe

>>79411257
include whatever is good for you and exclude whatever makes you look bad. hmm really makes me think

It's telling that about 35,000 Mongols managed to completely crush Sung China, which was the wealthiest, most populous, and advanced civilization in the world at the time, kill about 30 million people, and rule over China for a century.

>>79411257
right, like I wrote, part of it is definitions. arguably there has been much less 'stability' and more 'civilizational turnover' in West Eurasia. but that also meant much more innovation in some periods

both the ancient Near East and the Islamic world tremendously influenced the intellectual culture of "Europe" (both the Greeks and late medieval Western Europeans). were they part of some "Western civilization"? depends on your definitions...

>>79411386
Most advanced?


In what regards?

I'm pretty sure 12th century Italy of French were just as advanced as China if not more, same with Andalusia, Byzantium, Egypt, Syria or what is now Iran.

>>79411170
For example, Zheng He's voyages in the 15th century used huge, oceangoing ships which were far above anything Europe had at the time. But the voyages were not out for trade, exploration, or colonization, merely collecting tribute and impressing the might of the Ming emperor on lesser nations, and afterwards the emperor ordered a halt to oceangoing voyages.

China has always been a xenophobic, inward-looking culture; while they don't mind accepting technological innovations from foreigners, they have little interest in the outside world itself.

>>79411430
anything non-chinese are western. world vs china mentality is mainstream.

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These 'East vs West' comparisons are so stupid. There's any number of reasons why one culture might make a technological or intellectual achievement over another (e.g. access to previous developments from nearby cultures, geographical features that render an achievement useless), people start comparing nonsensical categorizations like the entirety of Europe and its history vs. classical China, and everyone seems to write off developments for arbitrary reasons. This is retarded.

>>79411529
Europe seemed to consistently have better distribution of "advances" and technology. China always just has some wacky apparatuses made for rich people that, owing to the prevalence of the current anti-Western mindset in academia, is given precedence over any theories of European origin

>>79411789
just all ppls have inferior complex issues

>>79411951
why did china stagnate, sensei

>>79412019
European visitors to China in the 18th century described, among other things, the complete lack of any prestige given to science or engineering--being a mandarin who spent all day reading old books was the highest calling in the land.

>>79411529
European cities in the 12th century were muddy villages against the metropolises in Sung China. You have to remember that the collapse of the Roman Empire took Europe many centuries to recover from, as late as the 18th century, European cities lacked the roads or sewage systems of Trajan's Rome over 1600 years before. Not only were Chinese cities in the 12th century quite huge compared to Europe, the wealth and cultural sophistication of them was a magnitude greater, and China was also far more industrialized.

During the Ming Dynasty however, China gradually stagnated culturally and technologically, Europe began to soon overtake both China and the Middle East.

>>79412105
but one would expect good literature output from the chinese if that is the case. why have i never heard of any

>>79412180
'industrialization' before the industrial revolution is a meme anyway. productivity and GDP per capita estimates (as much as we can calculate those before the 19th century for most of the world) bear that out

of course the real innovating power in the middle ages was the Islamic world

>>79411170
The missionary impulse of Christianity was also a factor, East Asia had no proselytizing religions. Buddhism was something for monks to engage in while the masses simply practiced various forms of shamanism. Confucianism was more of a state ideology than a religion per se. Taoism was a hobby religion of the rich that necessitated rituals using expensive ingredients.

>>79412252
But i heard that's because islamic world absorbed knowledge from both the 'west' and the 'east'. i guess there is really no point in arguing anything...

>>79411917
this is true
the people who argue about this shit seem like the same insecure folks who argue over who's white so that they can have the opportunity to claim the accomplishments of long-dead people who share the same broad phenotype.

>>79411680
In addition to which, China has always been a statist society where individuality was not encouraged or desired. Capitalism or a money economy never quite developed since all large scale industrial enterprises were traditionally state-controlled. Indeed, the present-day PRC is entirely consistent with Chinese political tradition in that way--although small scale private enterprise is accepted, major industry (Milton Friedman's "commanding heights") remains state-controlled and no independent base of wealth or power that could challenge the central government is allowed to develop.

>>79412302
there is, just as long as you don't expect something really concrete to come out from something as vague as 'civilizational comparisons'

I'd recommend just reading some Lindberg, Boyer, Huff, Plofker, Needham and the like just to get a general idea about the history of the relevant areas (mathematics, science, technology etc.) and taking these arguments for the vague comparisons they are

>>79409873
As late as the 19th century, there was no cohesive Chinese national identity, people thought of themselves in regional or tribal terms.

>>79411170
>Europe happens to occupy a very favorable geographical location that gives it easy access to four continents. China doesn't. Europe and North America happen to also have the best agricultural potential of any place in the world.

In particular, North America happened to have a similar climate to Europe, which made it easy to settle there. European lifestyles and crops could be transplanted to Eastern North America without much difficulty.

>>79412870
course the south was hotter and more malarial than any part of Europe, even Italy and Greece, and that's why they had to use blacks as slaves...

>>79412926
Yes and it was also convenient that the best and most inhabitable part of the Americas was the part that was geographically closest to Europe.

>>79412870
And of course the Americas were inhabited by people who'd never gotten past the Neolithic phase and had no immunity to European diseases, which made two entire continents easy to take over.

>>79413255
Fact: The entire Amerindian population descended from a few hundred Siberian hunter-gatherers. The genetic pool was extremely small, which resulted in them having weak immune systems and inability to tolerate alcohol, among other things.

China invented the steam engine 1000 years prior to Europe and mostly used it to cook rice. How do you fuck up that bad?

>>79413389
>The genetic pool was extremely small, which resulted in them having weak immune systems and inability to tolerate alcohol, among other things.

part of that is just due to greater selection in the old world due to a much longer period of agriculture (which was often effected via admixture of the founding population rather than just cultural transmission) for alcohol and the historical transmission of more infectious disease, probably partly for the same reasons, more crowded urban places

the first part is sorta right (though that siberian population was the result of two other populations mixing) though some amerindians seem to have some sort of polynesian admixture, na-dene speakers have admixture from a later wave of siberians and the inuit are the descendants of yet another even later wave of siberians

How does the average Chinese person, in modern times Beijin / Hong Kong, feel about the Japanese and Korean?

Reposting here because no one is answering me in sino general..

>>79412180
>You have to remember that the collapse of the Roman Empire took Europe many centuries to recover from, as late as the 18th century, European cities lacked the roads or sewage systems of Trajan's Rome over 1600 years before

When making a carriage trip to Scotland once, George III complained that the ride was "utter agony" since Britain's road network in the 18th century was remarkably poor quality.

>>79413621
People on the internet are not average Chinese. China has a very angry internet culture.

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Even talibans are better than chineses when it comes to paleontology.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-fake-fossils-pervert-paleontology-excerpt/

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>>79401602
China is fortunate to have a series of very strong and capable emperors for this Dynasty.

>>79413572
>In Roman Egypt, the aeolipile (also known as a Heron's engine) described by Hero of Alexandria in the 1st century AD is considered to be the first recorded steam engine. Torque was produced by steam jets exiting the turbine.

However, steam power for over a millenia was just considered a toy and nobody until James Watt thought to put it to practical use, partially because Britain had plenty of coal to make it a viable idea.

>>79413706
french man cite a 4chan post to prove a point. ok anon.

>>79413687
They say that recent aggressive acts in the South China Sea may be motivated by the postings of Chinese /pol/tards, since the CCP does monitor online posting closely to gauge public opinion.

>>79413757
Romans with factories. That would've been scary.

>>79413757
Which brings up another point. Britain spearheaded the Industrial Revolution since they had lots of iron and coal, the basis of heavy industry, and as an island country, they were safe from wars and foreign invasion that devastated continental Europe and held back development repeatedly.

>>79404352
Why do you need to study in holland? Are you a hollander?

>>79413083
Wut? Central Mexico rarely if ever goes below 3C or above 30C (that's upper 30s to mid 80s F) with a mean of 12 to 16 C (mid 50s t 60 F) and plenty of precipitation at 820mm (32 inches) that's not only gloriously comfortable compared to NY or Boston with no hellish summers or freezing winters but not only can you grow every single European crop in there but plenty of others that you wouldn't be able to have in Europe. There's similar places in South America ranging from Colombia to Peru.

>>79413255
Mexicans and Peruvians had well developed bronze age civilizations. In Mexico alcohol was made and consumed (pulque) and Mexico remains with lower alcohol abuse problems today than the US despite similar drinking cultures. Yes, there was obviously no resistance to old world diseases (because they did not exist not because Amerindian imune systems were weak) and yet MILLIONS did survive the epidemics.

How fucking retarded are you?

>>79413803
I am pretty sure scientificamerican is not a 4chan post you dumb burger.

>>79413956
>Mexicans and Peruvians had well developed bronze age civilizations

Still much behind Europe. The lack of draft animals may have been the main reason for the inability of Amerindians to get much more advanced than that. It makes for a big difference when you require human power to plow a field or haul heavy stuff around.

>>79413956
parts of the americas were obviously different but even there agriculture and alcohol consumption has a much shorter history

one comparison you want to make in the case of Mexico is whether alcoholism correlates with lower European ancestry (and even in Europe, problems with alcohol differ from places to place, partly due to different ancestry from the first farmers)

of course you're right about the diseases

>>79414051
They were superior in some ways. Like that wall in Peru where the stones are so tightly stacked together than you can't slide a sheet of paper between them.

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>>79412252
China had the largest GDP till the late 18th centruy.

>>79414173
Except Africa. Though I guess there's no value without a market.

>>79414173
that's why I said GDP *per capita*. before the industrial revolution, GDP closely traces population size

China and South Asia just had the biggest populations

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>>79413956
>Central Mexico rarely if ever goes below 3C or above 30C (that's upper 30s to mid 80s F) with a mean of 12 to 16 C (mid 50s t 60 F) and plenty of precipitation at 820mm (32 inches) that's not only gloriously comfortable compared to NY or Boston with no hellish summers or freezing winters but not only can you grow every single European crop in there but plenty of others that you wouldn't be able to have in Europe. There's similar places in South America ranging from Colombia to Peru.

There's quite a bit more geographical distance between those places and Europe, and the areas which are inhabitable and have a tolerable climate are small, sort of an oasis surrounded by mountains, desert, and jungle. This is quite in contrast to the huge, temperate climate expanse of North America.

in fact what you posted, based on the title, seems to cite Angus Maddison. some economists don't think his pre-modern estimates are that reliable but if we take them to be reliable, China has had lower GDP per capita than many parts of the world even in pre-industrial times

so either way...

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>>79414051
Yes, well Europe did have a head start and cultural transmission from semitic civilizations, Amerindians managed to reach their bronze age in less than half the time. Pictured is Mexico 10,000 years ago, Lascaux was 17,000 years. Bronze age in France got started in 1300 BC

And yes, this was without draft animals tho Aztecs had the wheel and used in aplications like the spindle whorl and the potter's wheel.

Behaviourally modern humans have been around the middle east for at least 50,000 years.

>>79414398
>Yes, well Europe did have a head start and cultural transmission from semitic civilizations, Amerindians managed to reach their bronze age in less than half the time. Pictured is Mexico 10,000 years ago, Lascaux was 17,000 years. Bronze age in France got started in 1300 BC
>And yes, this was without draft animals tho Aztecs had the wheel and used in aplications like the spindle whorl and the potter's wheel.

And then they hit the wall and didn't progress much from there, probably due to the aforementioned lack of draft animals.

>>79414398
the first agriculturalists (and maybe even metallurgists) were most likely not semitic-speaking. also the bronze age in france starts around 2300 bc, skipped an 1 there

these comparisons are silly anyway, can't compare eurasia to the americas. it's quite true though that eurasia has always been more advanced than the americas, that's just denying the obvious

Amerindians rarely managed stable, continuous civilizations, there were many, many collapses like the Mayan collapse around the 10th century AD. Large, urban civilizations were developing in North America and fell apart not all that long before the European arrival. Had Europeans arrived a century earlier, they would have found temple mounds similar to Mesoamerican pyramids in the Mississippi Valley, but it had ceased to exist since then, so what they came into contact with were much more backwards cultures.

>>79411386
The late Song were weakened by their war against the Jin, and also were defeated in the end by a traitor who burned down the Song defensive fleet that held back the Mongols from crossing the Yangzte for 30+ years.

Also, the Song were advanced technologically, but culturally their weakness was a deep anti-militarism in the population.

>>79414847
>but culturally their weakness was a deep anti-militarism in the population
China is not and has never been a warrior culture. Traditionally, war was disliked for disrupting the harmonious, tranquil social order that was considered the ideal to aspire to.

>>79413757
>However, steam power for over a millenia was just considered a toy and nobody until James Watt thought to put it to practical use, partially because Britain had plenty of coal to make it a viable idea.

They also lacked technology to make good enough boilers and moving parts till times of James Watt.

>>79414123
Fair enough, I'm saying there was alcohol consumption, Mexican natives today drink plenty of Mezcal and hard spirits and don't go crazy over the "fire water"

>>79414288
Arguably not as much as to have slowed down European colonization (Tenochtitlan fell in 1521, Mexicans (that's how Spaniards themselves refered to the people involved) conquered the Philipines in between 1565 and 1571. A lot of that was possible not only because the area of the kingdom of Mexico, former core of the Aztec empire, was huge (current Mexican states of Mexico, Puebla, Hidalgo, Morelos and parts of Veracruz, Queretaro, Tlaxcala and Guerrero) but because it wasn't just good for agriculture but had already developed an infrastructure of fields, irrigation and roads. The Spaniards hit the jackpot that allowed them to not only suply their expeditions and conquests but also to man them. If you want to argue who had the best conditions for colonization of the Americas Mexico was already printing books and had a university before any pilgrim landed in Plymouth rock and has since that era been the world's largest producer of silver, which it remains today, that's half a millenia and the basis in the 18th and 19th centuries that allowed for international commerce.

The US had some great conditions involved in its development but to claim that the East Coast was singlehandedly responsible or that it was better suited for human habitation and agriculture doesn't fly. if anything grain grown in the midwest was a driving factor. Geographical proximity wasn't as much of a factor until the 19th century.

There's the intangible factors of North America being settled by the English who had a culture that lent itself better to the development of a liberal-minded industrial democracy than did Latin America, settled by the Spanish who were chiefly in it for wealth and plunder and whose culture was much less conductive to a liberal-minded industrial democracy.

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>>79412180
>European cities in the 12th century were muddy villages against the metropolises in Sung China.

Maybe in size, Florence produced much more cultural output than any city in China, Bologna had a university in the 11th century AD, how many Universities did China have back then?

Pic related is from 10th century AD Amalfi, an Italian city state, I'm curious how Chinese architecture would compare.

>and cultural sophistication of them was a magnitude greater,

Oh please, Troubadours, Scuola Siciliana, Dolce stil novo, carmina burana, all these European cultural currents and works beat Chink "culture" anyday

Not to mention Medieval 11th century AD architecture and sculpture, the only chinks might have been superior at was painting but they would be destroyed in that field too by Europeans in a century or so, shut the fuck Chang, you lose against Europe.

>sewage system

See Byzantium,, two can play that game, dear.

>Chinese cities in the 12th century quite huge compared to Europe,

Byzantium was in Europe, also size doesn't mean that much, Mexico city is a shithole compared to Milan or Monaco.

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>>79415392
Pisa, 12th century AD, I'm waiting for the Chinese equivalent

>>79405862
i am groot

>>79415392
>Mexico city is a shithole compared to Milan or Monaco

>>79415207
Careful, you'll trigger him.

>>79415392
>79415392
Fibonacci, 12th century AD mathematician, I'm waiting for the Chinese equivalent

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibonacci

>>79414456
No, they hit no walls, the Aztec empire fell at its peak and while still growing.

>>79414635
I agree it sin't a straight comparison (Is ourced bronze age for france from Wikipedia) butb then don't hold that against the Americas. Eurasia was more advanced because not only it had a huge head start but this cultural tarnsmision, so Egyptians and Summer, Babylon, Persia, Phoenicians, Greece they all learned from each other and there's even some evidence there may have been exchanges with civilizations as far India and China. You'd be hard pressed to make the point Western Europeans accomplished civilization independently and without contributions yet some would make it seem as if what they managed was competing in equal circumstances with Mesoamerican Mexico all alone? What ancient Mexicans accomplished is remarkable and impressive in its own right, the country's oldest human remains are from 13,000 years ago, from people who descended from nomads at the fringe of wilderness I'd say they don't deserve to be dismissed like that.

>>79410639
> (((democracy)))

Chinese civilization was great since the Xia all the way to 1839 AD when the First Opium War started. Everything after 1839 to now is a shitty rendition.

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>>79415475
This was completed in 1165.

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>>79401602
>communism
nope

>>79415523
kek

>>79415542
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunzi_Suanjing

>>79415392
in fairness, historical East Asian architecture is always going to seem less impressive compared to west eurasian one since east asians built much of it with much more perishable material anyway. 'great walls' have been built since pre-Roman times but what we have is just from the 15th century and on. oddly enough a lot of people don't seem to realize how late the current great wall is and think it dates back to Roman times...

also, Fibonacci in particular seems to have been more of a disseminator of Islamic ideas than an innovator, he basically stands at the beginning of the revival of learning in Western Europe that lead to modern mathematics and science (which China didn't at the end of the day, it remained in a pre-Hellenistic state in many areas like astronomy even)

>>79415569
well, I don't like these comparisons too much anyway, to a large extent it's about dick-stroking which we all like to do

>>79415625
1065 even.

Too bad Xi'an was sacked so many time in wars. Because in 700AD, it was the greatest and most advanced city on earth.

But Song-Dynasty Kaifeng of the 11th century was also pretty GOAT.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Along_the_River_During_the_Qingming_Festival

>>79415779
>Islamic ideas
topkek
See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunzi_Suanjing

At most there were Persian innovators who contributed to math and science in spite of Jizzlam.

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>>79415684
Are you kidding me?

His work is laughable and he's from 3rd century AD, might as well cite Greek mathematicians like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diophantus

who are his contemporaries and a million times more influential than him

>>79415625
Which is infinitely easier to build than

>>79415475
or>>79415392 or pic related

Or any gothic or romanic cathedral from the 12th century AD

>>79415569
> thread about china
> mexican starts talking about aztecs
WE

>>79415625
>After the current pagoda was constructed of wood and brick during the Southern Song dynasty, additional exterior eaves were added during the Ming (1368–1644) and Qing Dynasties (1644–1911)

>>79415854
if you want to speak in those terms, medieval Islamic mathematics and science were far more advanced than anything East Asia could offer. those "Persian" (Iranic of various sorts in fact and often Eastern Iranic) mathematicians and scientists were part of the Islamic global system that stretched from Iberia to Central Asia and incorporated ideas from all sorts of sources and massively expanded on them

>>79415866
>His work is laughable
>*it's the first time I heard of him
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_remainder_theorem

>Which is infinitely easier to build than
>*I'm role-playing as a historian of mathematics and a structural engineer.

>>79415866
Easier to build?

These chinese constructions are mostly built without a single nail. You needed sophisticated structural calculations to do that.

>>79415969
>I don't know what an exterior eve is.

>if you want to speak in those terms, medieval Islamic mathematics and science were far more advanced than anything East Asia could offer.
They ripped it off.

>. those "Persian" (Iranic of various sorts in fact and often Eastern Iranic) mathematicians and scientists were part of the Islamic global system that stretched from Iberia to Central Asia and incorporated ideas from all sorts of sources and massively expanded on them
There was a Persian civilisation that was well aware of Greek, Hindu and Chinese science already. All Arabs did was enforce their retarded religion and alphabet on Persians.

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>>79416133
Forgot pic.

>>79416012
>3rd century AD

Were we not talking about the 12th century AD?

Because Greek mathematicians from antiquity like Archimedes, Euclides, Diophantus, Pythagora, etc are thousands of times more influential than any work by contemporary Chinese ones, who didn't even demonstrated their theorems formally

>*I'm role-playing as a historian of mathematics and a structural engineer.

It doesn't take a mathematician to know Diophantus, or to know that building a wooden tower is easier than builiding a massive dome like

>>79415475

>>79416133
all I'm saying is what you're presenting isn't exactly a 12th century building, it would have looked much less impressive

>They ripped it off.

you're clueless, read a book or something

>There was a Persian civilisation that was well aware of Greek, Hindu and Chinese science already

the real flourising happens in Islamic times either way and you keep confusing Persians with all Iranians

either way, at the end of the day, when the Jesuits started visiting China, they were representatives of a civilizaiton that had far surpassed China in the areas of mathematics, science and technology

that's all

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>>79415475
Checkmate

>>79415963
kek, yes, in all fairness if you go to the start of my convo, and it did end btw, I was refuting I was refuting some claims made about Native Americans. As it often happens in this board other than the rare South American is Mexican flags who make their case.

China does hold the prize for the biggest and most bloody civil wars in history.

>>79416268
that just makes his point more...east asians are smarter but they were surpassed by dumber people

>>79416362
Not really. They're good at rote memorization but they can't innovate or think outside the box.

>>79416425
In terms of quantum science, Chinese are pretty advanced now. More advanced than the West, actually.

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>>79416223
I thought we were talking about Fibonacci.
>>79416246
>>They ripped it off.
>you're clueless, read a book or something

And all you read is some gibberish by a Mudslamic dawah organisation or some Arab-boos.

>when the Jesuits started visiting China, they were representatives of a civilizaiton that had far surpassed China in the areas of mathematics, science and technology

Meanwhile China invented *PAPER* (including toilet paper), *MOVABLE TYPE* and *GUN POWDER*.

>>79416425
>They're good at rote memorization but they can't innovate or think outside the box.
Buzzwords.

>>79416458
come on bro, it's clear you haven't read a single book of Islamic science and mathematics. probably haven't even read Needham and are just furiously googling rn to make up for your small cock :^)

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>>79416456
>In terms of quantum science, Chinese are pretty advanced now. More advanced than the West, actually.

>>79416506
How is wifi in your refugee camp?

>>79416311
A Chinese diplomat once explained to his counterpart that a million isn't a big number in China. I wonder how they'd react to a billion deaths?

>>79416458
So, in the 12th century AD how was Chinese cultural output superior to that of Europe?

Could you elaborate?

>>79416425
and ameriturds must be horrible at critical thinking (or excelent at swarm thinking) because all you do is repeat this comment like parrots in every chink thread.

>>79416362
No, East Asians are cheaters, they rip off intellectual property and and fake their way through examinations. including IQ tests. They're actually not that smart.

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300BC: Mass-produced modular cross-bow triggers.
Tolerance was in the millimeters and all interchangeable.

>>79416535
I don't like the ChiComs, but you can't deny that they've been making advances. Their quantum computer is top-notch and they're making deep strides in nuclear physics.

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>>79416535

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>>79416601
Bronze Jian with chrome plating.

Bronze-age weapon with the length of iron-age european swords, and with a chrome technology that was only invented in the 19th and 20th century in the West.

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>>79416601
The Antikythera mechanism (/ˌæntJkJˈθiːrə/ ANT-i-ki-THEER-ə or /ˌæntJˈkJθərə/ ANT-i-KITH-ə-rə) is an ancient Greek analogue compute and orrery used to predict astronomical positions and eclipses for calendar and astrological purposes. It could also track the four-year cycle of athletic games which was similar (though not identical) to an Olympiad, the cycle of the ancient Olympic Games.

The device was found housed in a 340-millimetre (13 in) × 180-millimetre (7.1 in) × 90-millimetre (3.5 in) wooden box. It is a complex clockwork mechanism composed of at least 30 meshing bronze gears. A team led by Mike Edmunds and Tony Freeth at Cardiff University used modern computer x-ray tomography and high resolution surface scanning to peer inside fragments of the crust-encased mechanism and read the faintest inscriptions that once covered the outer casing of the machine. Detailed imaging of the mechanism suggests that it dates back to 150-100 BC and had 37 gear wheels enabling it to follow the movements of the moon and the sun through the zodiac, to predict eclipses, and even to model the irregular orbit of the moon, where the moon’s velocity is higher in its perigee than in its apogee.

Where's the Ancient Chinese equivalent?

>>79416502
I have a lot of hope for China, but what he's saying is kind of true (and true of Asia in general). Their curriculum is geared towards skills that will allow them to ace tests that can get them into the best schools or otherwise provide them with a practical foundation in whatever industry they'll be entering. There's also an unfortunate culture of plagiarism and bribery, whatever it takes to get ahead. That said, this will probably change in the future.

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>>79416627
>>79416606

>>79416686
>221 bc

Lol, iron age starts in Europe around 1000 bc

Phoenicians and Philistines already used iron swords in 1050 bc

>>79416591
I disagree, I think East Asians are smarter which makes their historical lower performance in many fields all the more interesting

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>>79416584
>superior
You asked for equivalent. I tried to find you a near equivalent. I tried to teach you something as I recalled learning about the Chinese Remainder Theorem in abstract algebra in university when I was an undergrad. I'm not even Chinese. Enjoy your assburgers.

>>79416757
Chinese used both iron and bronze at the same time. During Qin-Dynasty, both iron and bronze tools and weapons were used. Officially it began in 600BC, but the earliest finds were 1400BC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Age_China

>As in the Ancient Near East, there are isolated finds of iron artefacts that predate the Iron Age proper; in 1972, near the city of Gaocheng (藁城) in Shijiazhuang (now Hebei province), an iron-bladed bronze tomahawk (铁刃青铜钺) dating back to the 14th century BC was excavated. After a scientific examination, the iron was shown to be made from meteoric iron.

>>79416830
their so called intelligence is fake news

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Architecture from that terrible shithole known as 12th century AD Europe

>>79416886
Yes they had iron trinkets, they didn't put it to any practical use until much much later.

>>79401602
>gunpowder, the compass and printing

They didn't use gunpowder for guns
They didn't use the compass for navigation
They never started mass printing stuff because there were like 50K chinese characters (making mass printing too expensive).

agriculture and metallurgy in east asia develop later than in the near east. they're most likely independent developments and redating is always a possibility in those things but we've seen a lot of "first therefore better" here from the CIDF so...

>>79416886
South Europe (Italy & Greece) had iron trinkets too in the 14th century BC, and the Near East had them since the 20th century bc

The point is that Europeans used functional iron weapons since 800 bc. and Near Easterners since 1100 bc, while Chinks didn't

>>79416700
Sure, but where these mass produced and generally distributed and modularily interchangeable as the Warring State crossbow mechanisms?

That greek computer is impressive, but nothing but a trinket.

>>79417024
> iron-bladed bronze tomahawk
>trinket

These too were functional weapons.

>>79416999
bronze could've come through Indoeuropean steppe nomads in the late 3rd millenium bc but that's debated

>>79416740
http://www.nature.com/news/china-s-quantum-satellite-clears-major-hurdle-on-way-to-ultrasecure-communications-1.22142

Do you agree that Nature is CCTV?

>>79416988
>They didn't use gunpowder for guns
China had a kind of hand cannon in the Sung era but Europeans actually made a practical firearm. Other than that, gunpowder in China was a toy.

>>79416928
This
You can just search on google for "9th century buildings europe" etc.
It's such a myth that Europe somehow was behind in that time - it was literally the beacon of civilization even then.

>>79416940
So, and do you have any european chrome-plating technology to show in the 2nd centruy BC?

>>79416999
>and redating is always a possibility in those things but we've seen a lot of "first therefore better" here from the CIDF so...
This German is a guy who went over there for a couple months to fuck Chinese women.

>>79417065
Not really, considering Chinks used mostly bronze weapons well into 200 bc , South Europeans had iron knifes, daggers and axes too back in the 14th century bc, the difference is that soon after they basically only used iron swords and lances

http://www.academia.edu/2061542/Metallurgy_in_Italy_between_the_Late_Bronze_Age_and_the_Early_Iron_Age_the_Coming_of_Iron

in the Levant iron swords became predominant around the 11th century bc but they were already present in considerable number since a century before

>>79401602
No, Europe is the greatest civilization of all time and it's not even a contest

Only reason the chinks are doing well now is because the Europeans and Americans civilized them

>>79417253
And how big were your european armies back then in that time? Pretty shitty iron weapons for a small warrior class vs. million-man standing armies of the Warring state, Qin and Han era who were armed with mass-produced and standardized chrome plated bronze weapons of similiar length and sturdiness.

>>79417317
>Only reason the chinks are doing well now is because the Europeans and Americans civilized them

>>79408201
>>79408122
Not really, no.

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>>79416988
>>79417107
Chinese and later mongolians used gun powder in grenades (pic related).

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Architecture from backward Europe

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>>79417253
And not to mention, Crossbows and other mechanical hand-held weapons that were at least 1000 years in service earlier than Europe.

>>79417354
>And how big were your european armies back then in that time?

Aren't QIN and HAN from the 3rd century bc?

Romans could put on the field 80,000 men during the Punic wars

>million-man standing armies

I doubt it

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>>79417136
>9th century
>beacon of civilisation
>Europe
That's a vague hyperbole. Romanesque structures tended to be small. Byzantium imo was still beacon of civilisation though.
>myth
It's not a myth however that Europeans forgot how to make concrete and this is not an insignificant lapse in memory.

>>79417395
The church was always good in robbing the peasant of their money.

In China, instead, you have sewage systems for Chinese cities since 1000BC Zhou dynasty.

>>79417420
The first Greek crossbows are documented only about a century after they appeared in China. A thousand years? Not even close.

>>79417473
In one battle alone, 400,000 POWs of the defeated Zhao were buried alive by the Qin-army.

That was 260 BC

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Changping

>>79417518
>In China, instead, you have sewage systems for Chinese cities since 1000BC Zhou dynasty.

Minoans had sewers, running cold and hot water since 1800 bc

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based china

>>79417539
But in China, the crossbow was the standard weapon for millions, not just a trinket.

>>79417420
similar weapons (crossbows, rotary ballistas etc.) were used in ancient europe too (hell, primitive crossbows were used among tribal southeast asians back then too it seems), just not to the same extent and it's likely that the mechanisms were less perfected than the trigger mechanism of chinese crossbows. it's just a weapon that was really worked on and took off in china for some reason

also 1 million standing armies are a logistic impossibility

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>>79414635
>eurasia has always been more advanced than the americas

>Spanish conquistador Hernán Cortés arrived in Tenochtitlan on November 8, 1519. With an estimated population between 200,000 and 300,000, many scholars believe Tenochtitlan to have been among the largest cities in the world at that time.[14] Compared to Europe, only Paris, Venice and Constantinople might have rivaled it. It was five times the size of the London of Henry VIII.[6]

>It has also been suggested that the Spanish conquest of Mesoamerica influenced the history of the botanical garden[14] as gardens in Tenochtitlan established by king Nezahualcoyotl,[18] also gardens in Chalco (altépetl) and elsewhere, greatly impressed the Spanish invaders, not only with their appearance, but also because the indigenous Aztecs employed many more medicinal plants than did the classical world of Europe.[19][20] Hernan Cortés reportedly told the Spanish monarch that the Aztec physicians were superior to those in Spain, so superior, in fact, that the king need not bother sending Spanish physicians to the New World. Statement later confirmed in an early letter by the personal physian of the Spanish monarch who spent 7 years studying the Aztec medicine in a research trip that was expected to last 6 months: ‘"I marveled, in this and in innumerable other herbs, which are nameless among us, how in the Indies, where people are so uncultured and barbaric, there are so many herbs, some with known uses and some without, but there is almost none, which is not known to them and given a particular name".

>Mayan estimate of the length of the synodic month being more accurate than Ptolemy's,[2] and their calculation of the tropical solar year's lenght was more accurate than that of the Spanish when the latter first arrived

>The Aztec Triple Alliance, which ruled from 1428 to 1521 in what is now central Mexico, is considered to be the first state to implement a system of universal compulsory education.[4][5]

>>79417631
>From the mid-4th century BC onwards, evidence of the Greek use of crossbows becomes more dense and varied: Arrow-shooting machines (katapeltai) are briefly mentioned by Aeneas Tacticus in his treatise on siegecraft written around 350 BC.[42] An Athenian inventory from 330–329 BC includes catapults bolts with heads and flights.[43] Arrow-shooting machines in action are reported from Philip II's siege of Perinthos in Thrace in 340 BC.[44] At the same time, Greek fortifications began to feature high towers with shuttered windows in the top, presumably to house anti-personnel arrow shooters, as in Aigosthena.[45]

>The ancient world knew a variety of mechanical hand-held weapons similar to the later medieval crossbow. The exact terminology is a subject of continuing scholarly debate. Roman authors like Vegetius (fl. 4th century) note repeatedly the use of arrow shooting weapons such as arcuballista and manuballista respectively cheiroballista. While most scholars agree that one or more of these terms refer to handheld mechanical weapons, there is disagreement whether these were flexion bows or torsion powered like the recent Xanten find.[46]

>The Roman commander Arrian (c. 86 – after 146) records in his Tactica Roman cavalry training for shooting some mechanical handheld weapon from horseback.[47] Sculptural reliefs from Roman Gaul depict the use of crossbows in hunting scenes. These are remarkably similar to the later medieval crossbow.[48]

Nah, they were already well known and commonly used in late antiquity.

>>79417693
>also 1 million standing armies are a logistic impossibility

Yes, which is why the Qin-Dynasty crumbled so fast after they have achieved victory.
It was not sustainable for long, but during war time, they had them. The warring state wars killed anywhere from 15-30 million people, but barely made a dent in China's population - and that in a time before Christ.

>>79417567
Greeks defeated a Persian army numbering over 300,000 (2 millions according to Herodotus) that used iron swords, I'm pretty sure they could handle a Chinese of similar size army with bronze weapons (assuming Chinese sources aren't exaggerating like Greek ones, which is unlikely)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Thermopylae

Crossbows probably suited Chinese styles of warfare well or maybe because most of their enemies were Mongol horsemen.

>all these aresehurt wogs and burgers
kek

>>79417821
Yeah, that 300 myth.

China regularily had wars in that magnitude. The unification wars of Qin regularily had battles of 600k and more troops.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qin%27s_wars_of_unification

>>79417809
>The warring state wars killed anywhere from 15-30 million people, but barely made a dent in China's population

out of curiosity, what do you think the population there was in the 5th century BC?

>>79417356
Muh green arrows

Explain this buckaroo, why do you think China is copying the West so much nowadays? Because the West is more advanced. Plain and simple.

>>79417902
>Australia

Chinks have really colonized it

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>>79414051
>Still much behind Europe. The lack of draft animals may have been the main reason for the inability of Amerindians to get much more advanced than that. It makes for a big difference when you require human power to plow a field or haul heavy stuff around.
jesus christ americans

>It has been speculated that the Maya solved this urban transportation problem by constructing a 100-meter long suspension bridge across the wild river in the late 7th century. The bridge which featured three spans extended from a platform on the grand plaza of Yaxchilan crossing the river to the northern shore. The 63 meter center span remained the longest in the world until the construction of the Italian Trezzo sull'Adda Bridge in 1377

>They agreed to work at it viribus et posse, and began at once to divide the task between them, and I must say that they worked so hard, and with such good will, that in less than four days they constructed a fine bridge, over which the whole of the men and horses passed. So solidly built it was, that I have no doubt it will stand for upwards of ten years without breaking —unless it is burnt down — being formed by upwards of one thousand beams, the smallest of which was as thick round as a man's body, and measured nine or ten fathoms (16.8-18m) in length, without counting a great quantity of lighter timber that was used as planks. And I can assure your Majesty that I do not believe there is a man in existence capable of explaining in a satisfactory manner the dexterity which these lords of Tenochtitlan, and the Indians under them, displayed in constructing the said bridge: I can only sav that it is the most wonderful thing that ever was seen.
- Fifth Letter of Relation by Cortes to Charles V

>>79417902
Your shitty country has contributed nothing to the world

defenetely

>>79417969
Oh, but that's not an Australian of Anglo-Irish descent. ;)

>>79417907
>Yeah, that 300 myth

Herodotus said over 2 millions, 300,000 is the modern estimate, it's not a myth, Persia had an empire spanning over Egypt, Iran, Iraq, The Levant, Cyprus and Asia Minor, where most people in the world lived at that time, 300,000 is more than believable considering the sheer size of that empire, and we're talking 490 bc, centuries before the Qin

>>79417912
I would guess anything between 100-200 Million people in the world. China itself might have been contributing a large part of that.

So what have we learned today, guys?

China was never more advanced than Europe or the Middle East, nevertheless it's an interesting country, regardless of some nationalistic claims that some make, with a long history, no need to feel superior to others, every region is special in its own way, but we must fight against these dangerous racist ethnocentric claims made by some, to proect history and human lives

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>>79417253
Warring State iron sword.

They used them as well.

It was just that the Qin decided that arming 1 million men was faster with bronze weapons, whose standardized production technique they have already mastered.

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>>79418340
>Increasing scale of warfare
>The chariot remained a major factor in Chinese warfare long after it went out of fashion in the Middle East. Near the beginning of the Warring States period there is a shift from chariots to massed infantry, possibly associated with the invention of the crossbow. This had two major effects. First it led the dukes to weaken their chariot-riding nobility so they could get direct access to the peasantry who could be drafted as infantry. This change was associated with the shift from aristocratic to bureaucratic government. Second, it led to a massive increase in the scale of warfare. When the Zhou overthrew the Shang at the Battle of Muye they used 45,000 troops and 300 chariots. For the Warring States period the following figures for the military strengths of various states are reported:

>Qin
>1,000,000 infantry, 1,000 chariots, 10,000 horses;

>Chu
>same numbers;

>Wei
>200–360,000 infantry, 200,000 spearmen, 100,000 servants, 600 chariots, 5,000 cavalry;

>Han
>300,000 total;

>Qi
>several hundred thousand;

>For major battles, the following figures are reported:

>Battle of Maling
>100,000 killed;
>Battle of Yique
>240,000 killed;

>General Bai Qi is said to have been responsible for 890,000 enemy deaths over his career.

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>>79418533
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bai_Qi

>Bai Qi (died 257 BC), also known as Bo Qi, was a military general of the Qin state in the Warring States period of Chinese history. Born in Mei (now Mei County in Shaanxi Province), as commander of the Qin army for more than 30 years, Bai Qi was responsible for the deaths of a total of between 890,000 and 2,000,000 enemy soldiers, earning him the nickname Ren Tu (人屠, human butcher). He seized more than 73 cities from the other six Warring States in the Warring States Period and to date no record has been found to show that he suffered a single defeat throughout his military career. He was named by Chinese historians as one of the four greatest generals of the Warring States period, along with Li Mu, Wang Jian and Lian Po.


>Be Chinese general
>kill up to 2 million people over your career in pre-jebus times

Jesus.

>>79418280
so, let's say 50 million in east asia. and you're assuming a size double that of the grand armee, even for multiple states? lol

>>79418021
My family is predominantly Scottish and some English thrown in, it's just hilarious how arrogant Europeans are. The Italians tend to be the most delusional with the we wuzzary.

>>79418790
yes, you're right, as opposed to the modest Chinese...

>>79418557
So I guess those Dynasty Warriors games aren't all that inaccurate after all. Also, fucking hell.

>>79418868
those numbers come from the Records of the Grand Historian. it's like not doing any source criticism for Herodotus. fucking hell

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>>79418868
China's comparatively advanced agriculture and irrigation system enabled them to have huge populations back then - and thus these huge wars.

The "burying alive of 450,000 prisoners of war" during the Changping Battle was just one of the giant massacres between the warring states. It was just the most famous one.

If you like Dynasty Warriors, you might want to read the Manga Kingdom (or what the anime). That chapter that did the Changping battle was hellishly brutal

http://kingdom.wikia.com/wiki/Chouhei

pre mao yes
after mao lmao

>>79418847
I wouldn't know because the Chinese stick to their own massive Chinese language Internet and aren't constantly spilling into English language forums as an ESL, boasting about their histories which they are not relevant enough to do so in their own language. So yeah, you can't really compare it. Maybe if we were all using Greek or Italian, but we aren't. Get some perspective.

>>79418926
You really are an arsehurt wog, aren't you? Wu wuzz inventors of civilisation and shiiieet.

>>79419015
kek

>>79419152
you absolutely do and we can see it here with you. every historical forum has its resident chinese 'expats' who will defend any nonsense to death, like having 3 million people out of a population of 30 million duking it out

the west came up with something called Quellenkritik, you chinks need to learn how to apply it too

pre mao lmao
after mao lmfao

>>79419152
> Wu wuzz inventors of civilisation and shiiieet.

Lol has this meme lost all value?

it is common knowledge that South Europeans, Greeks in particular, contributed a lot to civilization

>>79419276
he's a butthurt chink who pretends to be 'Anglo' to the extent that he thinks only native English speakers should participate on english-speaking forums, or that Chinese never actually do, let that sink in

>>79419152
Chinese are mostly relegated to their internet because

1)Your dictatorial government literally bans a lot of popular Western sites like Facebook

2)It is much more difficult for a Chink to learn a completely different script and a completely different language, switching from their convoluted bronze age tier hieroglyphs to the Latin alphabet than for a Greek or an Italian to just learn English and write in a script identical or really similar to the one they normally use

Not because they're

>oh so above Western mortals we keep to ourselves, so cool and silent!

>>79417958
>>79417779
That was settled man, I like your pastas but we don't belong in this discussion unless you are on topic

>>79405324
This! And diversity too

>>79419580
you upset him a bit >>79419553

bye, bed time

>>79417032
>muh mass production
I can tell you're a Chink because you prefer quantity over quality.

>>79419742
Lol that is one butthurt Asstralian

>>79419003
>China's comparatively advanced agriculture and irrigation system
Not really, it had more to do with rice being a hugely more prolific grain than wheat or corn because you can harvest 2-3 crops a year instead of just one.

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>>79420510
>rice being a hugely more prolific grain than wheat or corn because you can harvest 2-3 crops a year instead of just one
ACKCHYUALLY chinampas yielded up to 7 harvests a year

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Um but aren't you forgetting something?

>>79403943
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2017/09/07/huawei-overtakes-apple-worlds-second-biggest-smartphone-maker/

>Apple has been overtaken by the Chinese smartphone giant Huawei as the world’s second-biggest smartphone maker by sales, sending the iPhone maker into third place for the first time since Blackberry and Nokia ruled the market.

>>79421422
Sup, sexpat.

>>79409873
>India was basically the same. Yet, no one disputes this fact.
Difference is that when the British ruled India they called themselves white, saw themselves as british, spoke english, implemented British governments/corporations/systems, took resources and sent them to britain, while pumping and dumping whores until they went back home to marry some british girl and settle down back in Britain.

Mongols/Manchus in China did the opposite. They spoke/read Chinese (Mongols actually simplified old 8 tone Chinese that sounds like Cantonese into something that sounded like modern Mandarin), sat in the imperial throne, government was mostly unchanged with a few military installations, mixed blood with the Chinese, kept the smart/useful family mongols/manchus in China while their peoples and stampedes went back to Mongolia still lived their stupid normad lives without any of the luxuries, within decades they called themselves Chinese and were at times followed old Chinese customs too closely to "seem Chinese" only to have it backfire because old customs are old for a reason (usually they are crap). This really fucked over the Manchus when the West kept wrecking them but they kept looking backwards in history for an answer as opposed to the Japanese who looked to modernizing. Worst yet the Han majority would never truly accept them as anything but oppressors (even though in reality they are basically Hans at that point) to overthrow.

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>>79419276
>it is common knowledge that South Europeans, Greeks in particular, contributed a lot to civilization
A lot of debt

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Can we just post fun architecture?

>the Towers of Bologna. Allegedly, hundreds were built in the medieval period

>>79408975
>Cultural revolution meme

kys

Whenever you spout this bullshit I wonder if it's just projection of the massive historical revisionism going on in the progressivist U.S. Confucian values are actually explicitly part of the modern Chinese curricula (admittedly, they had not been 2 decades ago) and all features of cultural retaining and continuity are there, unlike in the West.

Culture isn't a cosmetic that you can get rid of through a few years of purging. Maybe you'd know that if you didn't drink the progressivist koolaid. Confucianism is a part of the modern PRC the same way American progressivism finds strong roots in protestantism

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>>79421958
Literally kys burgercuck

>>79422015
Are there any actual white people posting under Australian/Canadian flag?

>>79422031
I like it how Iceland and Ireland are ignored to keep the ethnic tones of the narrative, I really do.

>>79422050
>Having common sense implies you're nonwhite

Nice argument m8

>>79422186
Awfully specific criticism, are your nuts tangled because you're incapable of actually rebutting my arguments you soy piece of shit

>>79421669
Sup, nigger.

>>79401602
>another china bait thread with people LARPing as /his/

>>79423035
Really, I mean, right?

>>79404772
it's not to say that they were the only ones to invent these things.

>>79410619
/thread

>>79401602
>>>/his/