What would've happened if these Turkic/Islamic empires each

Combined Europe was still stronger

>>74842716
Impossible. Too much bad blood between Safavids and Ottomans.

>>74842716
that's like saying what if the Jews and Muslims agreed to share Jerusalem

They'd probably spend all their efforts trying to keep the indian subcontinent under Mughal control, fighting the Marawathi, Decca, Sikhs etc

>>74843142
How so?

>>74843235
They did, ~30% of Jerusalem is muslim

>>74842716
Is the reason the Ottomans never took control of the majority of Arabia because it was inhospitable/useless desert, or was there another reason?

>>74843240
Safavids trying to spread shiite islam in Anatolia by force, Ottoman princes pillaging Iran for training, the list goes on

>>74843330
it was sparsely populated and the losses would outweigh the gains if they tried to invade there since it would turn into guerilla war

>>74843395
>shite islam
>it's actually the non-shit version of islam

why

>>74843240
The Safavids were Kurdish

don't tell this to the Turks because they've been brainwashed by muh alcoholic furry hat man

>>74843498
>islam
>non-shit version

such a thing doesnt exist

>>74843498
No such thing.

>>74843534
You mean Iranian, right?

>>74842716
>Ottomans and Safavids getting along.
Not happening. It's the age old rivalry that was mirrored before. Greeks vs Persians, Rome vs Parthia, and then Ottomans vs Safavids. Iranians always wanted to spread out west, and always came to blows with another group that ended up kicking their asses.

>>74843534
they were persian. the ruling family was turkish. their founder was from aq qoyunlu.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ismail_I

>>74843498
Shiites believe the title caliph should pass on from father to son
Sunnis believe the title should be republican
That's the main difference, can't comment on which is best

>>74843690
>republican
you mean oligarchical

>>74843653
>Ismail was born to Martha and Shaykh Haydar on July 17, 1487 in Ardabil. His father, Haydar, was the sheikh of the Safaviyya Sufi order and a direct descendant of its Kurdish[9][10][11] founder, Safi-ad-din Ardabili (1252–1334). Ismail was the last in this line of hereditary Grand Masters of the order, prior to his ascent to a ruling dynasty. Ismail was a great-great grandson of Emperor Alexios IV of Trebizond and King Alexander I of Georgia. His mother Martha, better known as Halima Begum, was the daughter of Uzun Hasan by his Pontic Greek wife Theodora Megale Komnene, better known as Despina Khatun

they were ethnic Kurdish heretics from deepest Kurdistan but their strongest supporters were Azeri Turks

>>74843653
>ruling family was turkish
Turkic, not Turkish. There was no such thing as Turkish back then. Turkish is the result of the Ottoman empire collapsing in Anatolia, a national idea created based on the ruling class of the Ottoman Empire

>>74843615
And the west always wanted to spread east and got trashed by Persians. My favorite was Trajan or what he was called who defeated them and annexed them into the roman empire, yet his successor was like "fuck it we're never holding this shit" and just abandoned the territory.

>>74843755
oh yeah you are right. i thought he was a member of the aq qoyunlu but he just had little connection with them. and he used turkoman nomads to conquer the aq qoyunlu
>>74843895
potato potreason

>>74842822
Not at their peak they weren't m8 lmao

>>74843958
>And the west always wanted to spread east and got trashed by Persians
Ahmed Raza. What is the Macedonian empire?

>>74843690

I dont understand this divide

Are there living people who are known to be descendants of Ali and Fatima?

If not, then whats the point of the divide?
How would a caliph be chosen? the strongest ruler of the strongest muslim country?

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>>74842716
There already existed an empire and if it didn't crumble after one dynasty because all the cucks were too butthurt after getting their heads cutt off and babur later would have joined it it would have been the superpower on your map

>>74844180
The title of caliph existed and was legitimate up until Atatürk decided to get rid of it now nobody knows who should be caliph

>>74844180
There is no reason for the divide. The title of Caliph doesnt even exist anymore

>>74844154
Like the example I just gave, any victory was extremely temporary. How long did alexander's empire last after his death,?

>>74842716
trying to get shia and sunni to work together is like herding cats, it doesnt work often and if it does it doesnt last long.

>>74844231
No empire besides the Russians ever conquered the whole Caucasus.

>>74844371
the light green are areas which he raided but never totally conquered thats why Delhi is there too and parts of Anatolia

>>74843653
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ismail_I
>Iran, since its occupation by the Arabs eight-and-a-half centuries ago, had not existed as a unified country under native Iranian rule
God, to hell with Islam and to hell with the Turk's even more.

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>>74842716
They would lower IQs.

>>74844517
dälät tis

>>74844451
dont worry johnny jones the ruling class assimilated with the iranians

>>74844438
There is a Chechen legend that Timur gifted us his sword because he coulndt conquer us after his envoys reported that our ancestors still danced, laughed and had fun during the war.

>>74844292
wtf why are muslims so autistic

>>74844231
>There already existed an empire and if it didn't crumble after one dynasty because all the cucks were too butthurt after getting their heads cutt off
Didn't he kill 17 million people? Literally 5% of the world population then?

And I don't think it would have lasted. It was too oppressive.

>>74844716
It's not that simple, centuries of division created strong differences between two factions
For example sunnis start their work with saying "In the name of Allah"
Shiites start with "In the name of Shah"
That's just one of the obvious ones

>>74844309
Persians lost most of the wars against the Greeks tho. Persi

>>74844180
Shias dont follow bullshit Sunni hadith books. We have our own hadiths, and we emphasize that they should be taken with a grain of salt.

If you don't know what hadiths are, look them up. ISIS uses many of them to justify their actions.

>>74844622

Who did the Ottomans assimilate into?

>>74844835

Persians never stopped western expansion

>>74844778
it technically lasted until the 19th century since the timurids and the mughals were basically the same

>>74844263
>>74844292


I thought the Ottoman caliph was disputed because he was not an Arab of the Quraysh tribe

>>74844330
Ottomans weren't anti-shiite though
Most janissaries were raised shiite muslim mainly because it makes one more loyal to the monarch

>>74844899
Ottoman caliph took the title by conquest, which was not an illegitimate thing to do
The reason arabs did not heed the call to jihad was mainly due to them favouring a british spy more than the caliph himself

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The Safavids were such a useless empire, how come they weren't conquered by the Mughals or Ottomans ?

Everything they did, the Ottomans or Mughals did it better.

>>74844895
>it technically lasted until the 19th century since the timurids and the mughals were basically the same
Wasn't Augrenzab/Timur a lot more oppressive than previous Mughal rulers?

Iirc he tried conquering the rest of India, which led to a lot of kingdoms rising up and his and his empire went bankrupt straight after doing so.

>>74845056
history proves that invading persia is a pain in the ass

>>74845056
Iran is hard to conquer unless you're Umar bin Khattab

>>74845056
Being surrounded by aforementioned empires probably.

Also they lasted longer than the Mughals

>>74845249
>Also they lasted longer than the Mughals
The Mughals had potential to last much, much longer.
I don't get how one man can fuck up so hard.

>>74845374
As rulers they were always hated, despite being far more benign than anything before and after. Really makes you think.

>>74845374
>The Mughals had potential to last much, much longer

It didn't help that their capital got completely sacked by Nader Shah.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nader_Shah's_invasion_of_the_Mughal_Empire

>>74844778
He gave all them an option of peace not his fault their cucks and fight back and fail
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Isfahan_(1387)
>To annex the Muzaffarid kingdom Timur would have to capture its two main cities: Isfahan and Shiraz. When in 1387, Timur arrived with his army to Isfahan, It immediately surrendered and so he treated it with relative mercy as he normally did with cities that surrendered.

see but then they rebel

>Soon after Isfahan revolted against Timur's taxes by killing the tax collectors and some of Timur's soldiers. Timur laid siege to the city and recaptured it with little effort.

and then he has to make them pay

>After restoring his control over the city he ordered the massacre of the citizens who resisted; the death toll is reckoned to be at least 70,000.[1][2] An eye-witness counted more than 28 towers constructed of about 1,500 heads each.

>>74845467
They better dig up that Peacock Throne soon, I bet it's lying in a landfill in Afghanistan somewhere

>>74842716
The mughals were sissy ass faggots who wanted to be cucked by the black Pajeets of India while they built and maintained their empire on the bravery and courage of the Pashtuns

no wonder they are extinct
useless shits

>>74843235
not a bad idea, the only problem, trusting the Juice, a people who cannot ever be trusted

>>74843534
Kurds are the absolute scum of creation
things i would do if i had a thermo nooc

>>74843690
sunni, fo sho

>>74845467
>It didn't help that their capital got completely sacked by Nader Shah.

Nader Shah really didn't do much desu.

He invaded an already declining empire, which just accelerated the process. It was Aurengzab that started the entire event. If Aur kept his head straight... well who knows.

>>74845581
Oh look it's that Arab-Paki who hates Jew's.

Fuck off already.

>>74845581
sissy enought to cuck you and all of buthurt hindu nationalists in india

>>74846713
>sissy enought to cuck you and all of buthurt hindu nationalists in india
The black pajeets he's talking about actually were the South Indians the Mughal Empire went bankrupt trying to annex.

They (imo) should have played it smart and jewed themselves in.

>>74843330
It is literally desert with a bunch of nomads, and those nomads are fierce fighters too.

Absolutely nothing of worth there. No civilisation, no resources, nothing.

>>74844180
>Are there living people who are known to be descendants of Ali and Fatima?

Yes. Hundreds of thousands if not millions.

The three allying is just not feasible enough to really think about.

What I AM wondering is why the fuck the Ottomans and Mughals never allied to crush the Safavids from two sides? From what I've read, in terms of military power the Ottomans were ahead of the Safavids, and the Safavids were ahead of the Mughals.

>>74847138
>What I AM wondering is why the fuck the Ottomans and Mughals never allied to crush the Safavids from two sides? From what I've read, in terms of military power the Ottomans were ahead of the Safavids, and the Safavids were ahead of the Mughals.
Balance of power?

Taking out the Safavid's would have taken quite a bit of effort regardless for the Ottomans which a Western power could have taken advantage of and for the mughals, until Aurengzab there was always South India lying around.

>>74846900
The biggest issue with the empire was that it was flawed from it's creation if you read his autobiography you realized Babur got cucked in central Asia he was the ruler of Andijon he tries to get Samarkand succeeds for a while but ultimately fails then he goes back to Andijon to see that he got cucked by his cousin now he has nowhere to go so he decides to invade the easiest most beta people who are also the richest aka poos with his turkic army he succeeds but since his army has no connection to Turkic people and he fucking race mixes after enough generations the army is all poos and the leaders have too much poo/persian blood the it all goes downhill after that was the ultimate flaw. No mughal ruler ever attempts to conquer central Asia because they knew. That's why people like Timur and Genghis are so good they stop all the infighting and they unite us and conquer since most of the time we don't try to conquer we just in fight and Babur was a third tier central Asian ruler he was just smart enough to realize that's first tier in most of the world

>>74847870
>Babur got cucked in central Asia he was the ruler of Andijon he tries to get Samarkand succeeds for a while but ultimately fails then he goes back to Andijon to see that he got cucked by his cousin
I heard he disliked his Mongol heritage?
>now he has nowhere to go so he decides to invade the easiest most beta people who are also the richest aka poos with his turkic army
I wouldn't say they were that bad. There was only one previous Turkic empire in India and they couldn't fully conquer the sub-continent themselves, even after a century of warfare.
>and the leaders have too much poo/persian blood
Persians are the only reason the Turk's ever lasted as long as they did. Not to mention they only conquered Persia only after it was weakened brawling with the Abbasid empire.
>That's why people like Timur and Genghis are so good they stop all the infighting and they unite us and conquer since most of the time we don't try to conquer we just in fight and Babur was a third tier central Asian ruler he was just smart enough to realize that's first tier in most of the world
That's true. I noticed myself a while ago that Turk's could fight well but they needed other civilizations to stay stable.

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>>74848524
>I heard he disliked his Mongol heritage?

never heard of that he did call his empire mughal which mean mongol in Persian and his descendant did put the mongol symbol on top of the the taj mahal.

>I wouldn't say they were that bad. There was only one previous Turkic empire in India and they couldn't fully conquer the sub-continent themselves, even after a century of warfare.

who was the other ruler?

>Persians are the only reason the Turk's ever lasted as long as they did. Not to mention they only conquered Persia only after it was weakened brawling with the Abbasid empire.

I'm not too sure about that if anything we should get credit for always blending/assimilating other cultures which is the complete opposite of Persians who tend to be the smuggest elitist people ever and don't ever like blending other cultures in. Also you guys rebelled like three or four times during that time and each time you failed also how many times did persia rule central asia?
>inb4 CYRUS
it was empty back then it doesn't count

>That's true. I noticed myself a while ago that Turk's could fight well but they needed other civilizations to stay stable.

I mean i agree that we suck at governing but idk about needing other civilizations to stay stable

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>>74849089
>who was the other ruler?
Delhi Sultanate.
Pic related is their peak after a full century of warfare in Afghanistan+India (after 1330 there were multiple open revolts and it started shrinking rapidly).

>I'm not too sure about that if anything we should get credit for always blending/assimilating other cultures which is the complete opposite of Persians who tend to be the smuggest elitist people ever and don't ever like blending other cultures in. Also you guys rebelled like three or four times during that time and each time you failed also how many times did persia rule central asia?
I'm not trying to get into a dick measuring contest, but assimilating into a culture is much easier than running a civilization.

>I mean i agree that we suck at governing but idk about needing other civilizations to stay stable
History has proven otherwise :)

>>74850089
What history?

Timur and Genghis both did fine without anyone else in building a civilization

>>74842716
Impossible because of the Sunni/Shia differences. Religion fucked them up in the ass. Look at pre-islamic Turkic history. They had their glorious days back then.

>>74845056
we tried but them mountains in eastern iran are op

>>74854152
western*

>>74854152
The Iranian plateau is basically a natural fortress.

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>>74843498
>shite islam
>it's actually the non-shit version of islam

>>74844863
Hey Ardashir, if you love Iran so much, why don't you actually, like, live in Iran instead of in Toronto in a welfare-provided apartment spamming your bullcrap on /int/ 16 hours a day every day.

This guy is one of the worst posters I've ever seen and that's saying a lot.

>>74857034
Not that guy but the Iranians in Canadians are all here as skilled worker, entrepreneur or investor immigrants so trying to associate Iranian-Canadians as welfare queens is quite the stretch.

>>74843291
not for long

>>74850945
>Timur
Fucked up after one gen.

>Genghis
Couldn't siege for shit(no equipment). Got much better after assimilating into the Chinese.

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>>74842716
Islam Causes Birth Defects.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2kJS6ScBRs&list=WL&index=27