>In order to build a common european culture, esperanto becomes

at least I would get something to do

I think it would be retarded. Almost nobody speaks Esperanto and it has no existing cultural relevance so there's no incentive to use it outside of school. It would make more sense to make English lessons mandatory (which as far as I know they already are in many EU countries).

I would laugh my ass off desu. Europe would finally transcend mortal form and become a living meme completely.

Annoyed. There are countless of languages in the EU and you pick the most useless one.

>>74460132
Confused and angry, Esperanto is shit. There is literally no reason to not just use french.

Making Europeans learn Esperanto so they can communicate with each other is like making Indians learn Polish so they can communicate with each other.

>>74460232
>There is literally no reason to not just use french
Kill you're a self.

>>74460270
>Kill you're a self.
Are you suggesting italian or what is this supposed to mean?

>>74460194
>>74460229
Well the point is to build something from scratch so that no existing language or culture is favored
Latin would work too desu

>>74460326
Deutsch, du Gigasören.

Isn't Esperanto stupidly easy to learn by design?
For it to be adopted a lot of things would have to be translated to it and this is what will be difficult and what will take the longest - not people learning it.
If movies, litarature and other shit got moved to it AND it is easier than english it could take over over the span of 20-30 years

>>74460326
Italian would be a sensible option yeah. It's phonetic and European.

It should be French desu

French > English

>>74460232
Excellent post.

>>74460370
Oh yeah forcing poles to learn german will go over really well. Great idea 10/10.

Fucking retard.

>>74460398
How is it any better than french?
I don't mind, but french is at least internationally relevant. Even spanish seems better than italian.

English or French would make more sense. English would be easiest, since many Europeans already speak it and the UK is leaving anyway (so no member state is favored).

>>74460525
>English would be easiest, since many Europeans already speak it and the UK is leaving anyway (so no member state is favored).
perfect

no member state would be favored with english

you eurocucks are stuck with it forever hahahahaha

>>74460132
We already speak English. France have to get over that or leave.

>>74460370
>wanting to hear more foreigners mangle our beautiful language
Fuck off and stop LARPing Ahmed.

No, that should be Interlingua.

We should all speak English.
Why? Because we all already do.

>>74460132
Sloxit

>>74460132
*pogroms*

I wonder (((((who))))) is behind this.

>>74460329
>Latin as a mandatory language
One can dream. I wish I spoke it.

>>74460132
Every country should mantain their language and to a larger extent, their culture. The EU should be a political, economic and military union if it evolves to be something bigger.

besides this, English is a good lingua franca and official language because is a balanced mix of germanic and romance languages, even though the most people in Europe speak a romance language i think

>>74460638
This

English already has the benefit that it's nobody's native language.

Oh, and it's actually a real language and useful in some other parts of the world too. But who cares about that?

>>74460519
Italy is related to all our languages. How is it not relevant?

Why would it need to be "internationally relevant" in the sense that some third world South Americans or Africans speak it?

>>74460132
filso malgoodino friendinoj

>>74461897
>Italy is related to all our languages. How is it not relevant?
Tell that to Finland and Hungary. Or Poland.
Italian is no more related to "all our languages" than french. And french has a history of being the ueropean language of goverment and legislation. Italian does not.


>Why would it need to be "internationally relevant" in the sense that some third world South Americans or Africans speak it?
It doesn't need to be, but its a point in favour when comparing languages. Many of the now thrid-world countries won't be such in some decades in the future and we need to plan ahead.

>>74460519
Consistent orthography, simple (Finnish-/Japanese-tier) phonetics and familiar Latin vocabulary are considerable merits for Italian.

But it's still a worse choice than English, because English a world language and everything of note already exists in English. There's just no way around it.

>French
Only niggers, arabs and a couple of French people speak it, it's fucking hard to pronounce and the orthography was designed by Satan.

>>74462179
>everything of note already exists in English

>>74462111
>Finland
But literally all of us mongols speak English, so the common Latin base would in fact be useful.

>And french has a history of being the ueropean language of goverment and legislation. Italian does not.
But it's not that anymore. OTOH, Italy has a history of running all of Europe. It's a nice thought but both are but equally (ir)relevant arguments.

>>74462325
Maybe Orban's latest homophobic comments haven't been translated yet, but so what? If we want our businesses and societies to be accessible to each other and to the rest of the world, there's no better way than providing stuff in English.

>>74462111
I don't want to speak a language that isn't pure European to be honest. That's also one of the reasons why I dislike English, Spanish and French.

German is the most spoken European language. And related to all Germanic languages. It's logical and phonetic. So that would be a sensible choice to me.
Same goes for Italian, which is an easy, phonetic and pure European language.

But I don't want to plan ahead on being one with some shitholes.

>>74460132
Revolt! Blood! OUR people are already being raped by the eternal anglo .

>>74462601
And I think many people feel alike. Which is one of the reasons why not all of Europe speaks English yet. Despite that we can.

>>74460132
latin.

>>74462551
I didn't say that English wasn't a good business language.
I just wanted to say that not everything of value is available in English.

>>74462601
>I don't want to speak a language that isn't pure European to be honest. That's also one of the reasons why I dislike English, Spanish and French.
How are French, English and Spanish not "pure european"? Do you mean languages also spoken outside europe?
But german is a recognized minority language in many non-.european countries too. So is dutch.

We'd have to pick something like, polish, I guess.

>But I don't want to plan ahead on being one with some shitholes.
Its not about that, its about if we make people learn a mandatory second language, it should be one that is also very useful outside the EU.

>>74462690
Because the language is hijacked by Americans and not our own.

>>74462693
The Dutch parliament is already on it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gd3o7_odvms

>>74462736
There is a difference between 300 million speakers abroad and 5 million speakers abroad.

>>74462832
Seems like splitting hairs. If you really want a pure european language, you need to do it right or not do it at all.

Lets make Basque the EU official language, it literally doesn't get more pure european than that.

>>74462879
The Netherlands has bigger minority languages than basque.

>>74462935
Yes, but basque is the oldest still existing language in the EU, and thus the most "pure" european.

I mean you recommend Latin and no one speaks that natively anymore.

>>74462983
I didn't recommend Latin. But we still get that in schools here.

>>74462997
I think most countries already have the infrastructure for learning latin in place.

>>74462997
>But we still get that in schools here.
I think we all do, but its really a meme language. Its vocabulary would need a massive update to be made into a working language and then we dilute it again.

>Basque, Latin
... and thus Europe managed to overcome it's bent for petty idealism and regained its place on the world stage.

>>74463046
You don't dilute a language by building upon it.

>>74463074
I don't speak latin, so I freely admit I don't know how capable it is of building new words, but I have the impression it would need to make heavy use of loanwards.

Today based Junker refused to speak in English saying English is becoming less relevant

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/05/jean-claude-juncker-accuses-britain-abandoning-eu-despite-call/

>>74463115
Just check out /int/. Words and expressions get invented here all the time.

I imagine it would go really fast.

Esperanto is not made for Europe but for the whole world. Either we make a new language for Europeans or we adopt something useful like Lojban

>>74463121
I seriously hope EU/UK partisanship won't seriously make people pretend Juncker is a cool guy.

I like the EU, but I don't need to pretend everyone in it is alright, when every goverment has corrupt scumbags like Juncker in it.

>>74463168
he is still better than Merkel. I hope you guys elect gottkanzler Shultz.

>>74463035
Nordics don't, Latin in schools is mostly a central European obsession.

>>74463121
The only reason I don't have a voodoo doll of that bastard in front of me right now is because he was clearly referring to brexit and not the language.

>>74463115
Current world news in Latin, spoken and printed, if you're interested

http://areena.yle.fi/1-1931339

>>74460329
+ Esperanto is piss easy compared to english.

>>74463235
>I hope you guys elect gottkanzler Shultz.
Me too. If Macron pulls through in France, we get Schulz and you guys don't fuck up in 2018 its Euro Power Hour time.

>>74463279
The Benelux has the population of entire Scandinavia. They just have to deal with it.

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>>74460132
>How would that make you feel?
rub hands together because our plan is working

with esperanto heavily borrowing from polish in sound inventory and semantics we could slowly turn esperanto-speaking masses into a vulgar polish used by the plebe and put polish on the pedestal of the language of academia

>>74463301
In a lot of countries, including France and the Netherlands, European reforms is the codeword for improving the EU. Listen to the critics and make it work.

The rhetoric of Schulz goes against that. He even outright rejected the idea that the EU needs reform before it can expand. That rhetoric really riles people up against the EU.

>>74463115
True.
I remember having trouble during latin classes and having to invent words that do not exist in latin.
Like fucking coffee. Potia arabica was the best I could come up with.

>>74463430
Schulz believes we all think like Germans. Which is just plain wrong.

>>74463430
>The rhetoric of Schulz goes against that. He even outright rejected the idea that the EU needs reform before it can expand.
What are you talking about? Schulz repeadetly said in the last months that the EU is in a terrible state and needs deep reforms.

What is arguing against is getting bogged down in "reforming" which translates into just drafting new laws and discussions instead of actually doing shit.

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDgB3bTAxok
Only part where I disagree with him is his assertion its not the EUs fault people don't know shit about it, it definitly needs to do more to get itself to the people. But saying Schulz opposes reforms is just .. wrong.
He's way more reform willing than Merkel.

>>74460371
Why tho. Just use it as an auxilliary if you don't share a common language. That's the intent behind it. Nobody will force you to live in it.

>>74463552
The Dutch Prime Minister says you first need results, so you have some bargaining chips, before you can even think about doing anything else. And then Schulz went full autistic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5n1HkuYpIC0

>>74463652
That video cut some parts out. But meh.

>>74463652
All I see him do there is rejecting that we need to stop with "ever closer Union", because yeah, reforms don't involve less closer Union. Our problems are primarily derived from a lack of unity and not too much of it.

You can disagree with that, which is fine, but I don't see how it can be equated to "not wanting reforms"

>>74463790
The idea that he conveys is:
>if we can show people the EU can work and produce results, then you can tell people you want more EU
>if you only show a shitty bureaucratic EU that doesn't work, then nobody will believe in the EU and it will fall apart
And currently the second one is happening. When the EU is in a bad shape. And you want more of that bad thing, then people will reject it.

>>74463790

we can have unity just when there will be a common european debt / eurobonds

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>>74463929

>europeans discussing a need for a EU lingua france
>all already communicating in english

Really makes you think

>>74463904
Sure, but I'm not seeing Schulz disagree with that at all. And from everything else I know he says, it doesn't sound at all like something he believes either.

If you listen to Schulz's speech, all he is saying is we need to commit to the ideal of a common european interest and doing things together, rather than letting go of or "disowning" the idea of becoming closer.

I don't see that as being at all related to needing to show results to regain peoples confidence, which is something Schulz himself has warned too. But the issue is that in a lot of ways the EUs lack of ability to do things tems from being hampered by the memeber states and lack of cohesion.

>>74463929
Its coming, if we like it or not (and germany absolutely hates it), when macron wins, it will be his price and the others won't have much of a choice.

>>74460132
>esperanto
Hey if you wan't to have a good laugh we can all learn Bulgarian instead.

That way everyone can be unhappy and united in their unhappiness .

Bulgarian for the official EU language!!!!
Who's with me!!!

>>74464046
Well, in 4 years the Euroskeptics in the Netherlands and France, who both have the second party, will ask the EU what the current state is. And if the answer is bad then the EU has yet another chance of imploding.

Schultz needs to realize that.

Are Europeans really talking in English about what would be the best lingua franca for them to use? Doesn't this thread answer its own question just by the language that it's written in?

>>74464141
Schulz isn't the only one who needs to realise that. The EU member state goverments really need to get their shit together.

>>74464247
American is a controversial language.

>>74460329
I'm sure latin won't work considering all the new words that would have to be made up, it would end up as some retarded nu-latin

>>74464247
Not really. What a bunch of autists on the internet use isn't the same as what most people in europe would or should use.
Most europeans don't speak english, if we want to establish a common language as mandatory, then realistically speaking, english isn't that much ahead of most competition for the spot.

>>74464247
The vast majority of Europeans do not know english and are unable to build a single sentence in the eternal´s anglo language so It seems that english is not the lingua franca at all in Yurop.

>>74464463
>he thinks the vatican hasn't kept it modern

>>74464535
Did it? I genuinly have no idea,
Does anyone here speak latin who could tell us how well it managed to keep up with its vocabulary?

>>74464603
It was only in the 18th century that French took over the position of Latin as the language of the European elite.

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>>74460132
Why not latin?

>>74464535
what is "computer" in latin? telephone? electric car?

>>74464652
A LOT has changed since the 18th century.

Also, most european nobility spoke french for much longer than that, I might believe in academia but definitly not as "language of the elite".

>>74464779
What is computer in Norwegian?
What is telephone?
What is electric automobile?

>>74460132
Mi sentos mojosa :)

>>74464871
datamaskin (data machine)
telefon
elektrisk bil

is nu-latin similar to this?

>>74465012
Data machina sounds pretty latin to me.

But if something is a loanword in pretty much all European languages, then it might as well be part of latin.

But words like telephone also come from ancient Greek.
Auto is ancient Greek.
Mobile is latin.

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>>74460132
Without any series in Esperanto, without any music in Esperanto, withouy anything exclusive to Esperanto, no one will ever bother.

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French should be the language of the EU. our future masters will be niggers from africa, they speak french. it's good that everybody already knows what they'll order us to do

>>74465124
Even the word computer comes from the latin computare.

>>74460809
Itse puhun vittu suomea

>>74465222
Thats certainly also true, whatever language we use needs to have a significant cultural output.

>>74460132
Esperanto is too focused on Romanic languages. We need a similar artificial language that's aims at merging the languages of the Karolingian core countries, France and Germany.

>>74464779
Computatrum (a keyboard is "plectrologium", ain't that fun?), telephon(i?)um. Electric is electricus, car is autocinetum.
Vatican has to keep it modern, desu. Which is another bonus to using Latin, there already is a centralized authority watching over the language.

>>74465899
I'm starting to get around to the idea of using latin if its actually kept up-to-date like that.

Of course, realistically its going to stay english out of sheer momentum, but latin would be a good compromise if for some insane reason we decide we 'need' a working language that doesn't give "advantages" to anyone.

>>74465899
Isn't latin hard as fuck to learn though? If people are forced to learn a language, I think a simpler one would be an easier sell.

>>74466639
They teach latin to 12 year old kids, it'll be okay.
t.took a year of latin in 5ème, ditched it the next, teacher was angry but I accidentally exploited a loophole in the rules and that made her angrier when she learned about it. (I replaced latin with extra english lessons, much more useful tbqh, now I can shitpost on 4chins effortlessly, also teacher was the best ever)

>>74466639
>Isn't latin hard as fuck to learn though?
Compared to? I think it'd be certainly easier for many then french and definitly easier than german.

>>74466821
Latin certainly isn't easier than French. It's a lot of bullshit declensions, and some of the grammar is just weird.
Mind, English also has a lot of bullshit like irregular verbs, words loaned from French/German/Latin but they have a different meaning, weird as fuck pronunciation rules that change depending on what other language the word comes from, etc. Definitely less than ideal too, especially if your intent is facilitating communication IRL.

The more I think about it, the more Esperanto sounds a better deal, desu. Just replace English classes with Esperanto classes in Europe, and let people pick English as second foreign language if they want.

>>74460132
Fuck of with this commie globalist language. English is the best and im not spending a single braincell learning a new language. I already have it hard enough knowing scandinabian, english and a bit of german.

I'd rather restore latin

>>74467322
Isn't Italian just an up-to-date version of Latin?

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>so many furrners still assblasted even though no one forced them to use english

>>74467026
Maybe the reason you find it hard is that you are retarded. Dont try to change the world because of your personal failings. Also, noone learns english from school, but from media exposure. It is organic learning and nothing you commies come up with can ne better than that.

>>74467462
If the EU gets one universal second language then surely media companies will jump in and publish things in that language.

I don't think we should base this decision on the status quo, but just pick the best language. Whatever the best might be.

>>74467462
>Also, noone learns english from school
A lot of people learn it from school. Its mandatory in german schools and most who don't try to learn it in school ever bother learning it for media because in most countries media gets translated.
You shouldn't try to project your tiny non-country experience on others.

>>74467565
Fuck off krautfag. You translate the internet in germoney? Fucking kek. I watched american movies with swedish subs and still picked it up fine and spoke fluent english by age p. Maybe you germans are just retarded?

>>74467703
>You translate the internet in germoney?
Most germans never visit the english speaking internet because there is nothing there they can't have in the german speaking internet.

> I watched american movies with swedish subs and still picked it up fine and spoke fluent english
its a way to do it, but most don't learn it that way which is what you claimed.

>>74467544
>If the EU gets one universal second language then surely media companies will jump in and publish things in that language.
It would take decades before there would be a real market for that language if we don't pick one that already has a sizable speaking population and entertainment industry in that language.

And for it to catch on it would have to spread really fast, which I can't see happening unless truly huge subsidies were involed and even then its very questionable.

>>74467703
>He thinks subs in Swedish help learn English.
lmao
Real funny.

>>74467750
Ist zo hart speaking of ze englizk. Zu hart for ze retarded german monkey brain jahvohl. Ach mein gott!

>>74467826
>which I can't see happening unless truly huge subsidies were involed and even then its very questionable.
Huge subsidies are already involved in both French and German cinema and TV series, m8.

>>74467844
People don't bother learning languages on their own they have no need for. And most germans have no need for english in difference to swedes, simply because we have the population to warrant dubbing and translating everything.

>>74467835
Kys you snail eating faggot. You learn from the spoken language and associating words from the subtitles with what was said in the movie.

>>74460132
Does every person ITT feel cucked by speaking English?

>Eurofags constantly call us little englanders and claim we want to larp in the past
>Eurofags want to use international court French like we're living in some 17th century galerie des glace
Priceless

>>74467890
True, but I don't think thats a good argument for even more subsidies.

I'm just saying its not as simple as "if we decide on a language, no matter what, people will build a entertainment industry with it".
There needs to be a market for it, which is why a already widly spoken language would be better than something like Latin.

>>74467923
That's absolutely retarded, translations are not lossless, meanings aren't carried properly. You didn't learn English that way, you learned English in school, like everyfuckingbody else, English and American people included.

>>74460132
>esperanto
>not latin
Jesus Christ that language used to be the main reasons European cultures developed connected with each other. I still don't get why it's not mandatory in schools

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Jesus fucking christ I haven't been reminded of the esperanto meme in fucking months
Good one, truly, you got me good

>>74467890
The Netherlands has three public tv channels.

There is no reason why the EU can't have a public tv channel.

>>74468027
No i didnt you dumb cunt. I dont even know what an adjective or a noun is. I never payed attention in school, neither in english nor swedish classes or anything else. I learned from tv, movies and the internet.

>>74468127
>I dont even know what an adjective or a noun is
WTF?

>>74468123
ARTE should be made available over the whole EU, desu.

>>74468181
Our school was so shit we had to sweep the floors and clean the toilets ourselves. No joke. Our math education consisted of doing the multiplication table until grade 9. Our science classes were carving boats out of styrofoam.

>>74468127
>I dont even know what an adjective or a noun is.
This totally convinced me everyone should learn english that way, so they don't understand basic linguistic concepts.

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sounds good

>>74460132
I'd laugh at the EU for being a bunch of autists and once again destroying their individual culture and history so that they can all be the same.

>>74468261
I kinda understand it but.... fucking adjective and nouns, How can you not know what they are if you are using them constantly ?

>>74468545
Thats my whole point. I learned english and swedish from absorbtion and observation, not classes in school.

>>74460132
still better than English desu

they'd just use like somali since thats the future of the EU

>>74468545
It's pretty simple, actually. Humans have an internal sense of grammar that they intuitively understand without having to explicitly learn it. The Northern Germanic languages are, in some ways, more closely related to English than Dutch or German, so it's totally possible for someone who speaks a language like that to just intuitively understand English, especially with sufficient exposure at a young age.

Also, English is structured in such a way that you don't usually have to think about what a 'noun' or an 'adjective' is to speak it. They don't even teach English grammar formally in bongland iirc.

>>74468753
This. "Education" is overrated when it comes to language. I learned more Spanish spending time with my Cuban grandparents and watching Spanish disney movies than I did in any classroom. I actually stopped taking Spanish early in high school/secondary school, and spent the next 3 years on French. And guess what? I don't remember any French. But I took my university's language aptitude test and apparently managed to prove that I'm fluent in Spanish.

Immersion>Education, every time