So looking at ancient Greece and Rome, one can't help but

>>73799927
no

>some forms of sexual degeneracy were more acceptable/culturally encouraged in Greece and Rome
True.

>Greek and Roman society was basically built on this sexual degeneracy
False.

>Could the reason be that humans as a species are naturally bisexual, and most people only repress their urges due to religious brainwashing?
Or perhaps humans as a species are naturally heterosexual, and the deviants only become that way due to deviant influences? The point is moot; Hume, is and ought.

>>73799927
You're also ignoring that paedarasty and sodomy as institutionalised in these societies (and others) often had more to do with social hierarchy and power than lust or sexual pleasure.

>religious brainwashing
How to explain Pakistan/Afghanistan then?

Homossexual pedophilia is accepted there in some areas, and Pakis and Afgans aren't the definition of secular.

I know they have their ways of rationalizing their actions, but if that was the case, Romans and Greeks would have rationalized their way around Christianity as well to fuck young boys.

>>73800176
>>73800265
That's exactly my point anon! Pederasty was widespread and commonly accepted. Young boys were courted by adult men and it made the parents proud if their son had a good suitor. No it didn't have to involve sex, but usually it did. (come on, just look at 4chan and it's obsession with boipussy, imagine that times 100)
Though, outright penetrating boys was a taboo (so they practiced it behind curtains) handstuff and oral wasn't frowned upon, in fact it was thought it made the boys better lovers for their wives. The courting process often involved men seducing young boys and jerking off them. Yeah. It was hella gay.

In fact, the most influential Greek thinkers, fathers of modern Philosophy spent a great deal of time waxing epic poetics about the beauty of young boys and the purest of love between men. And yes, they all had sex with them, except Plato, who tried to restrain himself with all his will -- hence the term Platonic or non sexual love. He wasn't always successful.
In Sparta they had an entire army of men who had sex with men.

1-3% of the population can't account for all this homosexuality. Greek men - with probably a few exceptions - were all bisexual.

>>73800715
>your point, which is distinct from and incompatible with my point, is exactly my point

I am saying two things, neither of which I have been able to glean from either of your posts:
1) Whether or not much of mankind is "naturally" homosexual has no bearing on whether or not society should discourage or prohibit homosexuality.
2) The institutionalisation of paederasty and sodomy based on social hierarchy and power tells us little, if anything, about man's natural sexual inclinations.

>>73800902
>The institutionalisation of paederasty and sodomy based on social hierarchy and power tells us little, if anything, about man's natural sexual inclinations.

But it does. In Greece it has been noted that even after the teen had grown up or even had family of his own, he usually remained in a close, lifelong friendship with his mentor.

What you're trying to allude here that pederasty is rape because of the power imbalance. And pederasty was anything but that. Victims don't become best friends with their abusers. It's a sign that pederasty was entirely consensual and most boys were naturally leaning towards bisexuality.

>>73799927
greeks were the degenerate ones, they corrupted the romans

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDJBXxTCkz0

>>73801344
>What you're trying to allude ...
Is nothing more than what I said. I didn't mention rape and it isn't at all relevant to my argument.

The argument, and I must re-state it because you have declined to actually address it, is that because primary purpose of paederasty in the classical world was not the satisfaction of natural urges or lust, we cannot use it as evidence when speculating about the natural/lustful urges of those who engaged in the practice.

That Greeks engaged in paederasty doesn't necessarily imply that they were naturally inclined towards homosexuality.

File: p0217.jpg (57KB, 600x600px) Image search: [Google]

57KB, 600x600px

>>73801657
Please, I can read between the lines perfectly.
>because primary purpose of paederasty in the classical world was not the satisfaction of natural urges or lust, we cannot use it as evidence when speculating about the natural/lustful urges of those who engaged in the practice.
Yes we can, sexuality was an inalienable part of it, since pederasty without the sexual element is just...school.
And there's no need for speculation when the facts speak for themselves, and you can't take two steps in a Greek museum without falling over a statue of a muscular, naked man.
>That Greeks engaged in paederasty doesn't necessarily imply that they were naturally inclined towards homosexuality.
Oh really? So just because people eat both meat and plants it doesn't necessarily imply they are naturally inclined to being omnivores? mmhm.

>>73801449
Then why did you adopt their gods, culture, imitated their architecture and tried everything to become like them?

>>73800265
>You're also ignoring that paedarasty and sodomy as institutionalised in these societies

Proof that they were nordics.

>>73802248
>Please, I can read between the lines perfectly.
So perfectly that you see things that aren't there.

>Yes we can, sexuality was an inalienable part of it, since pederasty without the sexual element is just...school.
Of course sex is a part of paederasty. I'm not denying that at all.

If you want to argue that man is naturally homosexual, but our culture has him suppressing homosexual urges, and your evidence for this is that the Greeks engaged in homosexuality, then that is not enough. That same fact can be used, for example, as evidence for the argument that man is naturally heterosexual, but Greek culture merely had him suppressing is revulsion to homosexuality.

What I say is that you have not precluded this explanation. And when we look at how paederasty was in fact practiced, we see something very distinct from homosexuality as it exists in today's world: we see a relative lack of carnality and lust. To me this suggests that those aspects were not the major parts of paederasty, which bolsters the suggestion that the cultural factor interfering with nature is Greek perversion, rather than Christian restraint.

Classical sculpture is about virtue and ideal. It is not pornography. Note the small genitals.

>just because people eat both meat and plants it doesn't necessarily imply they are naturally inclined to being omnivores
This is true. It isn't conclusive evidence.
Anyway, again: Hume, is and ought.

Most women are bi, i dont have any studies of that just experience. I have fapped to traps before but irl im not attracted to men