Would the world be a better place if Germany won WW1?

Probably no socialism spread to eastern europe, no nazism, no fascism, so yes.

>>71363012
>No treaty of Versailles
>No Germany going insane
Yes.

>>71363012
how come Denmark and the Netherlands get to be qts in this map?

>implying that would've ever happened

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>>71363012
>Scandinavia

WW2 doesn't happen and the west is not cucked with WW2 war weariness and guilt that still plagues us today, so yes

>>71363905
eugenics wouldn't have become taboo

>>71363012
Let's see:
Realistically, Germany wins by starting the Spring offensive without American involvement in the war. Britain, in this case, will just accept a status quo peace where Germany grants independence to France, Poland, Finland, Ukraine. Belgium will be given to France and the Netherlands to get them into their sphere. Austria-Hungary is committed to their plan of federalisation.
So Germany never loses its economic interests in the US and there will be a sizeable German minority. This would force the US to at least keep neutral in the coming confrontation with the British empire. Germany will control most oil sources in the Middle East and therefore will have a boom in automobiles and a mechanized army. The new nations in the East will freely join an economic union with Germany, so will Spain and Portugal when France can be persuaded by a plebiscite on Elsaß-Lothringen in conjunction with a common market for steel and coal. The Balkan will be a mess, but with Russia thousand miles away and France without its own policy there will have to accept being divided by the Ottomans and Austria-Hungary.

All in all, it would be a united continent against Britain and Russia if Germany can be convinced to get France to reconcile.

The West will never lose its colonies, especially with Belgian and Portuguese colonies taken over by Germany and some of them given to France.

On the other hand, the social democrats will still be a major force in Germany and communists will have a hold on Russia.

>>71363416
Because we are qt

Of course not. The entire purpose of the kraut is to serve their own purposes at the expense of all other Europeans. They allied with the Ottoman savages in the first world war just as they ally with the muslim savages today. Hell ever Hitler respected the Muslims. The Kraut will do ANYTHING to have his time in the sun when the fact remains they were never meant to have it in the first place. Free open societies as we know them today are the invention of the British and French. As they focused on peace, prosperity, democracy and free trade the Kraut focused on war and dragging his fellow man down. A kraut victory would have done little more than continue to support a system of class hierarchy and privilege based off whose balls you came out of.

>>71363012
Marx and Engels die of syphilis in a small rented room over top a Turkish coffee shop.

Thanks for the new desktop!

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>>71363416
cute. CUTE

Who dropped more spaghetti in WW1, Italy or Russia?

hisssssssssss....hisssssssssss....sssss
this is snek

>more turks in europe
>better

>>71364755
Australia-hungryeria

>>71364136
>and communists will have a hold on Russia.
dont you think Germany would support the whites in Russian civil war?

>>71363012
Parrotugal

Germany had a solid victory with the Brest-Litovsk treaty. Strange it just pulled out.

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Been playing Kaiserreich again have we?

>>71366240
wtf is this cancer

>>71363282
It has been proven that the Germans WOULD NOT impose a fair treaty. brest litovsk treaty is proof. Stop with this bullshit

>>71363416
Women weren't considered good for fighting i think. Either that or because they were neutral and didn't really assist the allies (as far as i know)

>>71364413
>They allied with the Ottoman savages in the first world war
the frogs were allied to the Ottomans during their major invasions of Europe and sent Siege Engineers to both sieges of Vienna.

Then the Eternal Anglo and the frogs allied with the Ottomans against Russia just 60 years before the first world war.

Germany only ever happened upon an alliance with them because the eternal anglo seized the battleships the Ottomans had already paid for and forced their hand that way so the perfidious albions can grab more land in the middle east.

>>71363012
Oh, I remember Leviathan, really liked that book.

>>71363012
I'm not sure but seeing the state of the west, i'd press a button to give it a try.

>>71363012
What the fuck is spain supposed to be in that map?

>>71363012
Nah. They don't have it in them to allow for a treaty as forgiving as Versailles.

It's more than likely they'd just push too hard, like in WW2, and end up getting slapped down for their presumption; it would just be a matter of when and why.

>>71367530
>treaty as forgiving as Versailles.
nice bait

>>71367601
Like i mentioned, Brest-Litovsk was as unfair or even more

The Eternal Kraut is at it again

Daily reminder that if USA didn't give UK endless supplies food ammo etc, and didn't put boots on ground, Germany would have won WWI

>>71367710
Yeah and if Russian generals worked with Brusilov and attacked when he did they could have put the AH out of the war in 1916. If this, if that. The war was filled with what ifs. The greatest "What if" would be if Austria didnt fucking sperg at the action of 3 teenagers not associated to the Serbian government (The Serbian government even warned Austria bout it).

>>71367666
my point was that treaty of versailles was unfair aswell

>>71367601
it could have been a hell of a lot worse

shit, the treaty of frankfurt you hit france with was harsher

>>71364136
what if germany and it's allies invade russia with everything they have to knock then out and then turn around to take care of france and the balkans

> no violation of belgian neutrality
> delayed british response
> russia overwhelmed in a few month
> germany runs over france within a year

>France starts war of Spanish Succession
>Loses
>Chimps out and starts Seven Years War
>Loses
>Chimps out and starts Revolutionary/Napoleonic Wars
>Loses
>Chimps out and starts Franco-Prussian War
>Loses
>Chimps out and starts WWI
If the eternal gaul loses again here, what do you think his next step would be?

>>71366831
hmm. Given the geopolitics of Europe then, was such a catastrophic chain of events inevitable?

>>71366831
The "Kriegszieldebatte" is not proof that Germany would have put harsh victory conditions on her enemies. It's merely proof that in contrast to all other participants Germany was the only one who was unprepared for this war because she didn't want it.

We might see a fascist France instead, the Germans would probably force a treaty similar to Versailles.

British would probably at most lose a few colonial possessions, but would be largely the same.

>>71367994
>the treaty of frankfurt you hit france with was harsher
top kek

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Well if germany would've won we'd be a monarchy ruled by the Hessen family.

And probably Europe's lingua franca would be german.

If anything it would've been interesting to see if German hegemony could've suppressed communism and keep other ex-major powers in check.

>>71363012
If Russia won WW1, sure it would be much better.

>>71372714
lol, we would be peasants without rights because of a Europe-wide restauration of Absolutism. Russia was the most reactionary of all the major powers.

leviathan anime when?

>>71363012
I think the very clear answer is "no". Because we wouldnt be able to foresee the outcome and effect it would have on modern day.

Looks to me this entire thread is full of faggots who still think their country exists or is even remotely as great as it is today because of the "good goys" won the war of nationalism.
If anything Europe is more likely to be poorer, less technologically advanced and probably worse off than Romania under the Soviet Union.
Sure we'd "probably" be rid of all the degeneracy we have today, but at what cost?

>>71372754
>reactionary
>I decide what is progress
Found the Bolsh.

Russian Empire existed before Communism and is not reacting to anything other than destroying its enemies, nothing new was formed.

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>>71372880
>progress is staying the same
ooookay

>>71373072
There is no progress with marxism other than me killing you is progressing you to a tomb.

>>71373095
>the only way out of absolutism is marxism
ooookay

>>71370420
I think the problem was that there were so many great powers in so close proximity, which makes a conflict very likely

>>71372567
>in contrast to all other participants Germany was the only one who was unprepared for this war because she didn't want it.

The people in charge of Germany at the time would disagree:

>On 3 July, the Saxon military attaché in Berlin reported that the German General Staff "would be pleased if war were to come about now".[43]

>Kaiser Wilhelm II declared on 4 July that he was entirely for "settling accounts with Serbia".[41] He ordered the German ambassador in Vienna, Count Heinrich von Tschirschky, to stop advising restraint, writing that "Tschirschky will be so good to drop this nonsense. We must finish with the Serbs, quickly. Now or never!".[41]

>on 5 July, the German Emperor informed him that his state could "count on Germany's full support", even if "grave European complications" ensued, and that Austria-Hungary "ought to march at once" against Serbia.[42][44] ...Even if Russia were to act in defence of Serbia, Wilhelm promised that Germany would do everything in its power, including war, to support Austria-Hungary.[44]

>>71373841
>>On 3 July, the Saxon military attaché in Berlin reported that the German General Staff "would be pleased if war were to come about now".[43]
The German General Staff wanted war sooner rather than later, because they saw the threat of their belligerent, revisionist neighbor and feared that time was playing against them. They argued for a preventive strike against France as far back as the 1890s, yet they were overturned by the political leadership every single time. The political leadership even was against simple preparations like stockpiling salpeter, because the leadership thought it would look belligerent. The military understood that the industrialization of war would make Germany vulnerable to a sea blockade and wanted to stockpile strategic goods. Ultimately the problem was solved by German scientists during the war but no one of the great powers was so cautious as to not look like preparing for war as was Germany.

>>Kaiser Wilhelm II declared on 4 July that he was entirely for "settling accounts with Serbia".[41] He ordered the German ambassador in Vienna, Count Heinrich von Tschirschky, to stop advising restraint, writing that "Tschirschky will be so good to drop this nonsense. We must finish with the Serbs, quickly. Now or never!".[41]
>>on 5 July, the German Emperor informed him that his state could "count on Germany's full support", even if "grave European complications" ensued, and that Austria-Hungary "ought to march at once" against Serbia.[42][44] ...Even if Russia were to act in defence of Serbia, Wilhelm promised that Germany would do everything in its power, including war, to support Austria-Hungary.[44]
And? That tells us nothing about preparedness.

>>71374020
Your claim wasn't about preparedness, you said Germany didn't WANT the war. It clearly did want the war, as I've shown.

>>71374334
>Your claim wasn't about preparedness,
It's literally in your quote, dumbass

>>71374521
Your quote:

>Germany was the only one who was unprepared for this war because she didn't want it.

... is wrong. If Germany was unprepared for the war, it's NOT because she didn't want it. Clearly the top echelons of the civilian and military circles in Germany DID want the war, as they admit themselves in the July Crisis cables.

The only conclusion is that Germany wanted this war while she was still unprepared for it. Good job, Germany.

>>71365974
Germany actually was one of the major contributors to the communist movement during the war to destabalize Russia from the inside. We provided weapons and money to them so they could overthrow their government and we could end the two front war T

>>71363239
>Probably no socialism spread to eastern europe
Get a culture.

>>71374617
>Your quote:
>>Germany was the only one who was unprepared for this war because she didn't want it.
Yeah and nothing about preparedness in it, right? Gosh, you're dumb as fuck

>>71367848
He was the heir apparent though.

>>71370260
>to knock them out

You can't blitzkrieg Russia. It's too big.

>>71374681
Not sure what's so difficult about this.

You established Germany was unprepared for the war.
I established Germany wanted the war (proof right from the horses' mouths)

Those two things taken together, they are quite remarkable and a bit amusing

>>71372652
5 billion to be paid on top of the war cost, took alsace lorraine and expenses of military occupations to be paid by France, your emperor proclaimed as such at Versailles, victory lap down Les Champs-Elysees. Only thing missing was tea-bagging.

>>71370260
>what if germany and it's allies invade russia with everything they have to knock then out and then turn around to take care of france and the balkans

If Germany does that, France attacks while Germany's forces are concentrated against Russia.

>>71375043
>5 billion to be paid
Tiny sum. And you managed to pay it off within 4 years.

>took alsace lorraine
Have you actually taken a look at the territorial losses of Germany as a result of Versailles?

>expenses of military occupations to be paid by France
That standard international law, dummy

>your emperor proclaimed as such at Versailles, victory lap down Les Champs-Elysees
Oh wow, a ceremony and then they went away. What a drag! As opposed to occupying the Rhineland for years, the industrial heart of Germany. Ridiculous restrictions and outright bans on ships tonnage, airplanes and tanks.

There is no comparison between the Treaty of Frankfurt and the Treaty of Versailles. Treaty of Frankfurt was a slap on the wrist.

>>71375001
>You established Germany was unprepared for the war.
Yep, and there's no doubt about this.
You'd think if you want war you stockpile guns and gunpowder, right? If you compare the expenses of the great powers, there is zero doubt that Germany was the least prepared.

The German standing Army was 750'00 strong in 1914 Together with trained reservists The Reich was able to send 3.8 million men into battle. A number that's really moderate compared to France, especially considering the differences in population size. Germany had 60 million inhabitants. France with its 39.6 million inhabitants had 3.58 million man including reserves. Russia had all in all 6.5 million men. Yet, we are called the militarists!

>>71363012
Netherland cutie.

>>71375530
>Yet, we are called the militarists!

Of course you are.

Germany gave Austria-Hungary the blank cheque and encouraged them to invade Serbia.
Germany was only too happy for Russia to be provoked, because she wanted to confront Russia.
Germany violated the 1839 Treaty of London which she signed and guaranteed, dismissing it as a "scrap of paper".

Germany invaded neutral Belgium, invaded France, pushed A-H hard to invade Serbia asap, and above all wanted an excuse to smash Russia.

The fact that Germany pursued all of the above while being unprepared doesn't make you innocent, it makes you stupid.

>>71363012
Yes, no question about it

No way

>>71375625
Brunei i love your flag

>>71367710
US boots on the ground were irrelevant
Supplies not so much, they were useful, but we would have won, just would have taken longer and so more lives

>>71375631
>Germany gave Austria-Hungary the blank cheque and encouraged them to invade Serbia.
And France gave Russia a blank cheque.
No difference

>Germany was only too happy for Russia to be provoked, because she wanted to confront Russia.
Lol, the German Kaiser was begging his Russian relative to stop the path to war. The underlying problem was that, even though the Congress of Berlin was as bipartisan a solution to the Balkans as one could achieve, Russia was still revisionist about it, because they were (and are) in essence expansionist.

>Germany violated the 1839 Treaty of London which she signed and guaranteed, dismissing it as a "scrap of paper".
Yes. Once the war started, the military necessities kicked in, which for Germany meant the vulnerable two front position. There was no such necessity for France to be revisionist or for Russia to be revisionist. That was their free choice.

>Germany invaded neutral Belgium, invaded France, pushed A-H hard to invade Serbia asap, and above all wanted an excuse to smash Russia.
>The fact that Germany pursued all of the above while being unprepared doesn't make you innocent, it makes you stupid.
Actually the fact that these "plans" failed (ultimately because Germany had far fewer soldiers and weapons as these plans required because the political leadership tried to calm European politics down for decades while the others prepared for war) is testament to Germany's unpreparedness.

>>71375043
To be fair, France had conquered Alsace-Lorraine in the first place from the HRE, its not like it was originally French or anything

>>71375631
The Kaiser actually, once he found Serbia's response to be satisfactory, tried to bring everything to a stop. His Generals ignored him and pushed it to a stage where there was no gong back under the military plans. He didnt even want to attack France first but plan said they had to so Generals pressured him into it.

>>71363012
no

>>71366240
Alot of retardation desu but its goes a nice way

ITT: edgy foreign retards

No, life would not be better for most nations. In fact, who won WWI is irrelevant, as if it wasn't Germany who would go full hero and start and WWII, it would be Britain or France, as Germany would push a treaty harsher than the treaty of versailles, but just as stupid, as it will still gives us the ability for the subjects to fight (think of any sort of insurgency); this will result in WWII of a monarchist Germany against a nationalist Britain+France+other oppressed nations.

>>71363012
This drawing is fucking great! Source please ?

>>71363012
The world would be a better place if the americucks didn't came and let France fuck Germany over so we don't have a fucking ww2.

>>71383053
>being this salty over a such a nice war

>>71372567
Germany was so ready for war that the troops were mobilized in record time only to be able to invade France as fast as possible.
Also Versailles was not so harsh. The article on war responsibility was bullshit tho

Definitely. Germany was the leader in all aspects of science, industry, art and philosophy in the 1910's. There's no telling what amazing things would have happened if the backbone of europe had not been trampled by nihilistic anglos and butthurt french.

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>>71384204
>Also Versailles was not so harsh.

I suppose the Rhineland occupation was justified as well right

For the ones who think it would have been any better you're all a bunch of retard with shitty life. You only believe that your life would have been less shitty if they won but you'd have been on your computer right now posting shit about "what if germany lost the war?" and how it would have been far better. You are part of the problem and you don't even know.

>>71384657
It's just speculation for fun. You never read a Harry Turtledove novel?

The fact is not a single one of us would be alive today if history hadn't gone exactly as it did. So you're wrong.

>>71384204
>Germany was so ready for war that the troops were mobilized in record time
Not our fault that French trains don't run on time

>>71384763
I don't think that a lot of ppl here talk about "speculation for fun" but you got a point saying none of us would be alive

>>71384444
Yes. They have to pay. They don't, they get occupied, it was legal.

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>>71384763
>tfw both grandmothers we're refugees from occupied karelia who were forced to relocate to ostrobothnia where they married local men
>tfw if WW2 never had happened wouldn't exist
very conflicting feeling

>>71363012
kek

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>>71375046
> If Germany does that, France attacks while Germany's forces are concentrated against Russia.
> France attacks Germany
> France

>>71389758
yes? you seem to know nothing of pre-wwi France

>>71390752
>has the help of the UK
>germany still takes 4 years to surrender

>>71363282
yes it should have been harsher

>>71391922
And?

>>71392066
Yup, Hitler rose to power because they still had bread to eat. The world would have been a better place if germans stopped existing in 1918.

>>71393853
Half of today's technology was invented by German scientists of pre-WWII. You wouldn't be alive today because the agricultural output of the Earth without the Haber-Bosch synthesis allows for 3 billion humans tops.

>>71394308
>Implying the Earth isn't overpopulated.
>Implying any other european country, even the slav ones, wouldn't have been able to figure that shit out.
And now Germany is in the process of ruining Europe for the third time. We had one shot at getting rid of the cancer of europe and we botched it.

>>71394582
Well, it's certainly overpopulated with French. But that problem solves itself over time.

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>>71394651
We'll take care of that for you, sir!

>>71394651
Yeah, Im sure you guys will do just fine with your """refugees""".

>>71394991
4 million former Turks being productive German workers seems promising /wrt to 1.5 million Syrians and Afghans. How are your Algerians and other Africans doing?

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>>71394991

>>71392293
french invading germany would likely result in trench warfare with a few divisions holding off france

once russia surrenders the french line would be quickly broken resulting in the french army being demoralized and quickly surrendering

>>71395263
>with a few divisions holding off france
What makes you think that? After the German offensive got stuck in 1914 Germany fought for most of the war in a defensive role, and obviously needed many more than "a few divisions".

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>>71395402
not violating belgium neutrality would delay british response

> france invades germany
> no fortified towns to hide behind

>>71395623
>not violating belgium neutrality would delay british response
still not enough to hold them off with a few divisions.
I know German militarism is a common trope throughout the world but numbers don't lie. Germany's enemies were armed to the teeth at the outbreak of the war.