Is this the JUST of all ideologies? There hasn't been a

>>71124502
>forgetting best korea

>>71124584
Not only is it pretty much fascist now, but I wouldn't exactly call it a successful country.

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>>71124502
It's more telling that the countries socialists dickride the most like Sweden who praise it as utopia are in fact capitalist.

90% of companies in Sweden are privately owned while 5% is state-owned and only 5% being worker cooperatives.

It's like you need the concept of private businesses and private property to maintain a functioning and prospering economy.

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You see, only problem is proletariat has not seized means of production yet.

>>71124502
>*autistic screeching*

t. marx

literally none of his economic theories have ever managed to be successful

>>71124502
>china
>capitalist

Nice meme

>>71124810
>post-Deng China
>communist

>china isn't communist
wew lad

>>71124502
>reverting back to capitalism (China

China is still a command economy, they're better at Leninism than Lenin was

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>>71124810
Lmao. Deng dropped the socialist meme in the late 70s you fucking idiot. China is state capitalist with free market zones like Shanghai.

>>71124749
So haven't Keynesian or Neoliberal theories. We just have to get used to the fact that every now and then a major crisis hits the economy with the corresponding loss of life, property, income, capital etc etc.

Engels was a factory owner and Marx was an academic who never held a job (his family was rich so he didn't have to). Lenin was fucking nobility.

No a single communist revolutionary has been from working class background.

It's the ultimate WTF ideology.

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>>71124949
>>71124884
>people still unironically think china is communist

The economy was liberalized to fuck when Deng came into power.

>>71124502
It was simply ahead of its time
Communism is ideal for a post scarcity society

>>71124686
Socialists=/=communists
Like nationalism=/=nazism/chauvinism

You can take the good bits of an ideology, leave out the bad and have a pretty good thing going.

>>71124968
They've allowed commercialism into China but key industries are still controlled by the Party. Even independent companies have Party officials installed on them.

More importantly, no business owns its own property. All land is leased by the Party.

>>71124686
Only American 'dude weed lmao' college leftists and uneducated trailer trash rightists consider Sweden socialist.

Which to be fair is like 90% of your population.

>>71125121
Socialism refers to an economic concept where the workers own the means of production.

95% of companies in Sweden do not fall under this category.

You're thinking of a massive welfare state which is still capitalist.

>>71125113
love this meme

>>71124502
life in the Soviet Union was pretty nice. in the 1960s it was great. everyone who lived then says it.
inb4 gulag memes
it collapsed because it's been sold to america by Gorbachev

>>71125028
>liberalized
>legal system, business, trade, internet access all controlled by a single government party that can't be held accountable to anyone but itself

Literally kill yourself.

>>71125195
It's funny how people who are against socialism just make up whatever definition that suits them. Pretty easy to win any argument this way.

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>>71125169
But it is neither socialist or communist you idiot.

China is a prime example of state capitalism. And the free market areas are what drive the vast majority of its economic growth. Not state-run companies.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2014-10-14/private-companies-are-driving-china-s-growth

http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21664143-if-economic-miracle-continue-officials-must-give-private-sector-more-freedom

Deng is the hero of China. Had he continued the failed socialist meme under Mao, China would never become the economic powerhouse it is today.

>>71125212
but its true
Star Trek is communist

>>71125028
They act as capitalist when trading with other countries, but their internal economy is still communist (or some sort of it)

>>71124860
It is socialist with Chinese characteristics

>>71124968
So? It's still committed to communism

>>71125275
Holy fuck you're dumb.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_economic_zones_of_China

Most of the companies in Shagnhai and Shenzhen are not state-owned.

Accept the fact that your ideology is literal trash and capitalism proved its superiority again.

>>71125328
>Socialism is a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership and workers' control of the means of production;[10]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

Literally none of the Nordic countries fall under this criteria.

>>71125414
No. It's state capitalism outside of Shanghai and Shenzhen you fucking idiot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_capitalism

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>>71125334
>state capitalism
>STATE

Stop making us look like retards in front of the European posters

>>71125565
>State-owned enterprises may make up only 3 percent of all companies in China today, but they produce an estimated25 to 30 percentof the total industrial output. The Party maintains command over the economy by having top Party officials or family members own several key industries. For instance,Jiang Mianheng, the son of former Party leader Jiang Zemin, is known as China’s “Telecommunications King” due to his sizable interests and control over the industry.

>Many top Chinese businesspeople are Communist Party members who serve in the regime’s rubber stamp legislature or its political advisory body. Part of the reason is a Party policy to co-opt Chinese business elites, but businesspeople join up anyway because Party membership guarantees advantages for business.

>And in line with textbook Marxist teachings, the Party is the only true landowner in China; the Party leases land to the Chinese people


Kill

(You)r

Self

>>71125473
>it's still """""""""""committed""""""""""""""" to communism

It's fucking communist in name only at this point. It's the epitome of state capitalism with free market cities like Shanghai and Shenzhen (which drive the vast majority of economic growth in China)

I love how desperate leftists routinely trash China for abandoning communism/socialism decades ago, but then claim it's still fucking communist or socialist when it comes to discussing their economic benefits ever since Deng started liberalizing the economy.

>>71125580
You're fucking retarded. Do you have any reading comprehension you Marxist cretin?

China is capitalist. I never said it was free-market capitalism as a whole. This is my only point. It has not been socialist for decades now.

>>71125687
>only 3% of companies in china are state owned
>literally most of the economic growth is from private companies

>The private sector is the main driver of growth and employment

>Between 2010 and 2012, private sector firms produced between two-thirds and three-quarters of China’s GDP; it also accounts for 90% of China’s exports.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/06/8-facts-about-chinas-economy/

And the rest is from state owned companies that operate for profit aka state capitalism.

Marxist economics is literally a fucking failure. EVERY TIME.

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https://itif.org/publications/2016/11/29/despite-china-favoring-state-owned-enterprises-its-private-companies-are

>"s-seize the means of production comrades!"

>>71125580
Here have another study.

http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/abs/10.1162/ASEP_a_00360?journalCode=asep

China is capitalist. Socialism is literally defined as the workers owning the means of production. They don't in China for decades now.

>>71124686
>democrats are socialists
>nordic countries aren't
nice try hillbilly boy

>>71124998
Well Keynes was a filthy statist like the commies. Try Mises or Hayek.

>>71124502
>communism to seize control of a country, its economy and culture in order to start anew
>after a while revert to the free market to allow for business to grow and increase quality of life
>after a while of that, go to socialism to take care of your population with all the wealth that has been accumulating
the final redpill

How can people be so stupid to defend socialism, guys?
It depresses me every time I think about it.
I expected more of this species.

>>71126744
>workers own the means of production in denmark

The vast majority of companies in Denmark are privately owned. Privately owned companies do not exist in a socialist economy.

Social democracy (still operates within a capitalist economy) is not the same as fucking socialism.

>>71128624
Yeah, I love how they are absolutely capitalist, indulge in the capitalist excess, but still act like they are better than that and not actually capitalist.

>but muh government services
Which are paid with capital.

eh. you can't blame them. it was a one of the first attempts to try and fix the still relevant problem of uneven wealth allocation in a capitalistic system after all and more or less bound to be hamfisted, inefficient and at worst unrealistic.

it did lead some countries to adopt social security measures and worker rights

the real problem are the autists who still take it seriously. it's be the same as claiming cave paintings are the ultimate and final form of art since they were made first.

Good goys, same tricks those "MUH Socialists" made here. Now they only one whose own all shit here, fucking red scums.

>>71128624
>>71128686
the word you're looking for is mixed economies which by definition incorporate socialist ideas.

you'd think people would at least bother to read a wikipedia article or two before arguing about this shit.

>>71129014
Providing services in exchange of taxes is not a socialist idea, it exists from much before socialists decided to enter metastasis.
It's the same historical distortion feminism does when it claims the suffrage was their conquest when feminists had zero to do with it.

Socialism doesn't have a monopoly on trading concepts.

Why do people that have literally no idea about economy or economic policies bother to argue all the fucking time?

>>71124732
>working men of all countries, unite!
>t. Karl Marx, who spent most of his life living off his friend like a useless basement-dwelling parasite he was

Remember that time the swedish goverment literally stole shit from the private companies and said they were hiding it from the people
oh wait haha thats venezuela

>>71129179
Because they think Marx is economic literature.
Not that they have read anything by Marx, of course, they just know what Facebook pages taught them.