How would Russians react if they suddenly had a free press and

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>>70528294
>free press
>see flag
>close thread

>>70528426
We allow anyone to start their own media company and publish whatever they want. You can say whatever you want in the US. We even allow media owned by foreign governments like All Jazeera and RT to operate freely here. The Chinese government owns a billboard in Times Square they use to broadcast pro Chinese information.

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>>70528470
>"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""free""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" press
>all major news outlets are owned by like 5 different companies
americans.

>>70528643
But this is because consumers choose to make those 5 companies the biggest, it has nothing to do with the government.

>>70528643
>Implying tomonews isn't a major news outlet
baka

>>70528294
What video are these images form?

BBC is really horrible. they only do cherry picking every time.

>>70529501
https://youtu.be/AkW4eW7TMvM

>>70528294
We have had the independent media in the 90s. Most of them are controlled by oligarchs. But apart from the propaganda interests of specific other news oligarchs were independent.
Now 99% is a media, Goebbels propaganda. Brainwashing in Orwellian style.

It's not so different from having a handful of billionaire jews tell you what to think, my fat friend

>>70529686
>t. liberal

>>70529734
It's crazy how wanting a free press and competition offering multiple viewpoints is considered liberal in Russia...

>>70528665
Consumers by and large choose what the media tells them to choose. Do you see the problem here?

>>70529639
>Video is unavailable in Australia.
k

>>70529734
Any person who does not want to consume only the Kremlin's propaganda called liberal (grade insult here).

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>>70528294
> How would Russians react if they suddenly had a free press and their state run media shut down?

I would start my own internet media calling for decommunisation, universal basic income, welfare, kicking out oligarchs, massive deportations of central asian and caucasian shitskins, debunking of jewish "intelligentsia" working as a fifth column against our people.

Unfortunately western people are ok with only left liberal foreign media.

>>70529791
Tbh, I think most people choose what to consume based on how they are raised. White kids raised by conservative parents are a lot more likely to watch the conservative media. Black kids raised by liberal parents are way more likely to watch the liberal media.

And the internet has democratized the internet a lot so to speak.

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>>70529865
Liberals are people who hate Russia and want to destroy it.

>>70529964
I hate my drunk screaming neighbours yes.

Liberals in Russia called the right and far right, who oppose the remnants of communist rats who are now in power. Almost all high-ranking officials were members of the Communist Party in the past.

>>70529964
And look where your attitude has gotten you. Your country's AIDs problem is spiraling out of control because instead of trying to help these people, they are stigmatized as homosexuals and junkies. Your economy is in the shitter because your government's counter sanctions against the west. People should blame Putin and his cronies for that, but they blame the west for putting sanctions only on Putin and his cronies, not the average Russian, since that is what your government controlled media tells you to believe.

>>70530015
It's not MY government, it's pro-british puppets who exploit us since 1917. And Putin is his agent.

Best you can do is nuke London and turn us into american colony.

russia is a crypto colony of Great Britain

>>70530079
>pro-British puppet
>meanwhile Theresa May is trying to get Trump to be more anti Putin

>>70530079
tell us more, i was not aware of this.

>>70530015
Orthodox Sharia begins in Russia. It is proposed to deal with the HIV denial of sex and prayer. However, extramarital sex and bisexual orgies have become the norm. This is the only sphere of life, which is not totally controlled by the state.

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>>70530015
> junkies

You better don't talk about "junkies" and drugs. I wonder why your journalists write such articles?

Wait, maybe America get benefits from afghanistan's heroin? Oh no its IMPOSSIBLE


>>70530113
Crypto colony means the control is hidden, sometimes colony can pose as a sovereign country and even a threat but anyway when time will come it will defend british interests.


>>70530119
pro-British and pro-german communist thugs installed communist regime in Russia. Later country was controlled by brits only.

Cold war is a british-american rivalry.

Most russian oligarchs and top officials live in london.

>>70528294
How would Americans react if they suddenly had a free press and their Jew-run media shut down? Would they be horrified upon learning the true state of their country? Or would they be so brainwashed as it is that they dismiss any anti government opinions as hostile foreign propaganda?

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>>70528294
> American talking about something he's only heard about on CNN
> He's talking about how bad and unfree media in another country is
can't make this shit up

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>>70528294
>Americans insulting another country's media

lmao

>>70530566
Only RT real truth RRRYAYAYAYA

>>70530566
And guess what? Media companies like RT are allowed to freely operate in the US and call CNN out.

What would happen if PBS tried to run a documentary about homophobia in Russia on Russian TV?

I'm trying to figure out why I should, as an American, hate Putin and Russia, but information seems to be scarce.

Can one of my Russian friends here please enlighten me? I'm legitimately ignorant to the entire situation.

>>70530705

1) we hacked the election

2) we support homophobic neonazi Drumpf

3) we brainwash american people with propaganda weapon RT

4) we invaded sovereign country Ukraine

5) we threaten Eastern European states

6) we killed 100+ millions people with communism and enslaved half of the world

7) we bomb syrian children and last hospitals

8) we pressure sexual and ethnic minorities in Russia

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>>70530679
nothing, it'll just get bad ratings and go bust
point is, your posts reveals you don't know shit tyrone
here's Brit, American, German and EU (all govt-supported) media that freely operate in Russia
http://www.svoboda.org (that's radio liberty)
http://www.bbc.com/russian
http://www.dw.com/ru/тeмы-дня/s-9119
http://ru.euronews.com/tag/russia

there are major outlets that are critical of the government including radio, tv, printed and internet and finally here i am any english language is availeable to me an KGB isn't braking down my door every time i read WaPo or watch some CNN fuckup just for the laughs

it sometimes looks like living in Russia means getting a way wider spectrum of opinions by default than in the US, on many topics

>>70530753
>6) we killed 100+ millions people with communism and enslaved half of the world
>tfw most people actually believe this even though it was literally jews' fault.

>>70530679
> What would happen if PBS tried to run a documentary about homophobia in Russia
If they understand the difference between "a documentary about homophobia" and "homosexuality promotion", then nothing I guess.

>>70530778
It would portray homosexuality as harmless and homophobia as bad.

>>70530771

9) We starved millions ukraianins to death to eat their wheat.

>>70530790
then at most, it'd get a 16+ rating and couldn't be aired on kiddie networks

>>70530790

Too early to talk about homophobia, at first we have to fucking SURVIVE and not dissolve between EU and chinks in the last 50 years

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>>70528294


>murican flag

top kek

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>>70530171
They live in London because they hate sharing a country with retards like you
T.have met the old Russian ambassador

>>70530816
But you're supposed to be worried about homos not all those other issues, really important stuff ... those homos.
That and women fighting for rights they've already had for decades.

>>70530768
Was the Russian election voter fraud covered by any of these?

>>70530753
6 and 7 are true though
5 is kinda true with Baltic states and Poland

>>70530768
Bullshit. You guys have laws against "homosexual propaganda". I can't read Russian, so I can't read most of those links, but using Google translate on the BBC Russian, I didn't see anything anti government on the first page. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, I just didn't see it.

You have things happen in Russia that would never happen in the west, like having the owner of a media company arrested, then selling his company to the government upon release.

>>70528294
Dude, I literally have a yesterdays paper that has articles about political prisoners, budget misuses and corruption incidents. We have relatively free media.

>>70530753

Seriously, though, any legitimate reasons?

>>70529808
(((YouTube)))

>>70530705
They oppose NATO, that should be enough. NATO is simply there as a mutual self defense treaty, it isn't a threat to Russia if their former satellite states join NATO unless Russia would do something to incur the wrath of NATO. They supported separatists in Ukraine, who could have been a key economic ally for the US. They assist anti American regimes like in Venezuela.

>>70530889
yeah, they covered it however they could
somehow managed to twist that Russia having all ballot places filmed at all times into a bad thing if i remember right
all very free an liberal

open svoboda and google translate it - "will putin rule forever", "russian political prisoners", "porn, putin, prosecutor", "brothers run away from torture in russia", "story of an estonian familiy separated by russias censure and ideology"

pretty funny read and i heard US is spending more on that shit than Putin does on RT

>>70530079
I always enjoy how you say "it's not us, it's ______"

"it wasn't us, it was soviets"
"it wasn't us, it was tsar"
"it's not us, it's putin"
"it's not us, it's britain"

>>70530921
well BBC is great but they aren't the top dog at paid anti-russian BS and they're really trying to pretend to be unbiased

google translate svodoba.org, it's your tax money at work after all

>>70530933
yes, they're going to steal your burgers

>>70531003
>http://www.svoboda.org

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>>70531003
>BBC is great

>>70530921
>laws against "homosexual propaganda"
That's one of the few Putin's laws that I actually agree with. It is NOT prohibited to be gay here. Nobody asks for a reference confirming a person's sexuality when hiring or rendering medical services. Gays have the same opportunities as straights people. Nobody cares about what people do in their bedrooms.

>>70530990
>I do not thrust the Jews in the oven, they climbed back!

>>70531108
Have you seen how fast they climb?

>>70531102
You realize that in the future once Russia is more developed and liberal, people are going to look back on those laws and the gay pride shit is going to be 100 times worse than in the west.

>>70530921
> You guys have laws against "homosexual propaganda"
they're about children, not propaganda per se. they don't forbid movies like Dalls Buyers Club or whatever, and we don't hang gay people. so yeah, a pro-gay show can air on TV. Conservatives will be fuming at their mouths, Channel one might have a talk show about how that's gay propaganda, but it could air and it won't be illegal as long as it has a rating.
> You have things happen in Russia that would never happen in the west
that's diversity. please deal. honestly, we have problems in Russia, like we're ctually fighing a local Iraq in Chechnya for 20 years Those problems take time to manage, and we're not a perfect trump-electing democracy like the US. but we clearly do get disproportionate flak for it in "free western media"

>>70531145
The more twisted the valve, the balloon will explode soon.

>>70529868
You are a true patriot lad.

>>70531178
I did not know that

>>70531151
You get more flak for it because you're the biggest threat to us. If your government didn't support anti western governments militarily and economically, we'd treat you like any other African country.

>>70531224
I'm sure relations will normalize now that they own your new president

>>70528294
yeah, like i dont know true state of country and there is no free press

dont think u're that different, burgerman

>>70530921
>You have things happen in Russia that would never happen in the west

bull
shit

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>>70531224
thanks but pretty sure it was the other way around

we couldn't afford to support our own country economicall while you and your saudi friends were funneling money into chechnya and bombing countries that practically border russia.

your leaders chose to have russia as your threat once terrorism didn't work out to be a convenient scapegoat, so now putin is using that obvious hostility to hold a tighter grip on russia

thanks for that

>>70528294
People in such countries as Russia don't trust anything they hear on TV and read between the lines.
The real mindfuck would be for americans to learn how their media really works (a glimps of that was seen at recent elections).

>>70528294
>russians and jews
>dubious news

>>70531319
You have way more journalists that mysteriously die than in the west.

actually this >>70531347
we've had so much Pravda for several generations that we're very critical of our media. not hostile to its message but taking it with a grain of salt.

perhaps western media was never so blatant or even been so exposed before that's why i never see such attitudes in the west. when people in the west are imstrusful of some media, they always bring up some other sourse that "isn't MSM" and thus is the unvarnished truth. people
in russia treat all media like they have an agenda, by default

>>70531372
Basically it is the journalists who dig the shit out of the life of Putin and his friends.

>>70531372
That kinda happens with Russian diplomats abroad too.

>>70531409
But the approval rating on Putin is so high in Russia. I highly doubt people are critical of the pro government media in Russia if that's the case.

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>>70531372
no i really don't think so
some deaths or politicians, activists and journalists just go unreported. like that nato official in brussels or whatever in the end of 2016, or people testifying for serbia in that international court, or these people.

if people with positions like on picrelated died in the same way in russia they'd get WAY more western coverage with "Russia political anaysts" building a clear case of Putin removing witnesses. when they're Western officials, it just gets swept under the rug

>>70531475
it's just putin
yeah it's a bad russian trait but we love the tzar and hate boyars

putin is associated with muge ecomonic growth and sound domestic desision, and with rebuilding the military back into shape so russia can defend itself again.

doesn't mean people trust the news completely. mistrusting media is like a pavlovian reaction, people bought into too many lies that were revealed for lies in the 80es and in the 90es when all media turned "free" they bought into even more shady pyramid schemes and lost their lives' savings too. now you could't force russians to trust the devil box whatever you do

>>70528294
>be horrified upon learning the true state of their country
pffff....
Silly american, to understand that everything is bad in russia, you don't need free press. It's good, of course, when people tells about problems in your country, bu tif they tells same thing for 1000 time, and don't suggests any solutions, so press don't make any sence

>>70531475
>2017
>still believes muh approval rating meme, especially in Russia
Why do americans so fucking naive?

>>70531476
http://www.snopes.com/seth-conrad-rich/
>responding with conspiracy theories that are easily debunked
Keep on sucking your government's cock.

>As the Americans learned so painfully in Earth's final century, free flow of information is the only safeguard against tyranny. The once-chained people whose leaders at last lose their grip on information flow will soon burst with freedom and vitality, but the free nation gradually constricting its grip on public discourse has begun its rapid slide into despotism. Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.
>Commissioner Pravin Lal, "U.N. Declaration of Rights"

Alpha Centauri, if you're wondering.
I think it's actually too optimistic. Russians want their shackles, and Americans are now trying them on. Our own media is complete bullshit and propaganda, but it has always been so. The scales have fallen from my eyes.
People don't want the truth. They want the comforting lie. They want to be told they're good, or at least if If they aren't good, nobody is good.

People really are just animals.

>>70531590
>http://www.snopes.com/seth-conrad-rich/
> debunked
do i get it right, but did he really get killed, but details are not as the picture i posted says? then it's irrelevant.

i don't care what the text says on my pic, i'm just saying if 4 people high up some russian party system had been killed or died unexpectedly in the same timeframe, they'd get more coverage, and you'll beleve any conspiracy theory about them. simple as that

>>70531662
>but did he really get killed, but details are not as the picture i posted says?
Yes. There's no evidence he was testifying against Clinton. Same with the second story in your pic. http://www.snopes.com/un-official-john-ashe-killed-the-day-before-he-was-to-testify-against-hillary-clinton/ You wonder why people are concerned about Russia spreading fake news? It's because of people like you spreading source-less conspiracy theories.

Victor Thorne was a Holocaust denier that killed himself... How is that suspicious? Mentally unstable people kill themselves all the time.

Shawn Lucas also wasn't doing what the picture claims. He was just a process server. Murdering him didn't benefit the Clintons in any way. He overdosed on opioids during an opioid epidemic, not very suspicious.


> i'm just saying if 4 people high up some russian party system had been killed or died unexpectedly in the same timeframe, they'd get more coverage
None of the people in your pic were very high up except for John Ashe, but his death didn't benefit the Clintons in any way. Meanwhile, over 150 journalists have been murdered in Russia since the 90s, and quite a few of them benefited Putin. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia

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>>70531882
>There's no evidence he was testifying against Clinton

rolf. tell that his relatives

>>70531882
well journalists killed in the 90es are not on Putin, they're on Western-supported olygarkhs' hands

we had mafia shootouts and people reporting on it, we had chechen army and people reporting on it, we still fighting a war and have people with 13th century tribal mentality and people reporting on it.

in fact, all high-profile cases are about people that antagonized chechens aomwhere in their career, ususally very shortly before their deaths. and no, none of the deaths benefited putin. in fact, he keeps hostile media open for business and running, if you read this thread.

journalists in russia write tons of stuff that's critical of Putin, and the deaths only become less and less frequent farther into his rule. by your very link it's apparent Putin's managing the problem he received when he got into office, not making it worse

>>70531936
Their family publicly asked people to stop politicizing the murder. It's also been several months and nobody has claimed the $20,000 reward for information about his murder put out by wikileaks.

What's the point of posting that picture? Are you implying anyone that is anti Russian is some sort of feminist?

>>70532121
> Are you implying anyone that is anti Russian is some sort of feminist?
many of them are
recently all hillary supporters turned into CIA lovers so they hate russia too and love covert assasinations of minority rights leaders

it seems america never runs out of people that hate russia for on thing or other

>>70532090
>none of the deaths benefited putin. in fact, he keeps hostile media open for business and running, if you read this thread.
How can someone be this brainwashed? Russia is 148th out of 179 in terms of press freedom. You somehow manage to turn anything incriminating on Putin into pro Putin propaganda. I have a hard time believing the Russian government cares about shilling on anime imageboards, but if they did, you'd definitely be wasting an opportunity if you were doing this for free.

>>70532156
Before the election season, it was Republicans who were frothing at the mouth that Obama let Putin get away with invading Ukraine and bombing civilians in Syria.

You're just drinking the government sponsored koolaid that anyone who opposes the Russian government is a CIA loving progressive feminists who want to force homosexuality on Russia.

>>70532196
so did you google-translate something from svoboda.org?

i like how people of your sort can turn anything that isn't critical of things you don't like into "paid shill" but i'm still interested in whether Putin wants any of svoboda authors living in Russia killed and why he hadn't doe so. your honest opinion.

>>70531335

I think this Ivan is right. The anti Russia hysteria in the media is ridiculous and it looks like it's being driven behind the scenes by a host of people with their own agendas.

Most Intel agencies who want more funding and powers, governments who want an easy to comprehend external threat to point to when raising taxes or curbing freedoms, liberal media outlets who use the "muh oppressed gays" and "muh poor victims" to drive eyeballs and increase as revenue, and conservative media outlets who use "muh Slav hordes" and "cold war 2: electric boogaloo" for the same purpose.

>>70532280
>so did you google-translate something from svoboda.org?
Yeah, I couldn't understand much.

Now let me ask you, our former Vice President claimed that the Russian media didn't cover bodybags of Russian fighters in Ukraine being returned to Russia. Is that true? Can you show me a mainstream media outlet in Russia that reported on dead Russians soldiers being returned to Russia?

>>70532242
yeah i was jut surprized how neocons somehow were replaced by liberal bomb'em-alls in the US

no i don't think you're a cia lover but i think there's a high chance that you didn't believe cia unsubstantiated claims about iraq in 2003 but believe them now about russi.

that you believe people like brennan that are known to have falsely testified to a senate commitie, when they testify to a senate commitie about something that rings true with your political views

if i'm wrong, i'm wrong, but there's been to many of you people lately that don't read crowdstrike report or official "putin did it" papers yet believe hillary was hacked by ivans like it was gospel

>>70532344
>Now let me ask you, our former Vice President claimed that the Russian media didn't cover bodybags of Russian fighters in Ukraine being returned to Russia. Is that true? Can you show me a mainstream media outlet in Russia that reported on dead Russians soldiers being returned to Russia?
Novaya Gazeta, Echo of Moscow reported on that and yeah svoboda too. Many smaller outlets and liberal loggers and NGO websites i'd say

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>>70532242
>that Obama let Putin get away with invading Ukraine
>Putin get away with invading Ukraine

ok lets get it right here.

Putin has not invaded Ukraine. stop talking shit.
and if go into real facts russians have all right to invade Ukraine because they have agreements with Ukrainians for such situation like coups. banderas in kiev are even astonished themselves because after all shit they pulled out against russians they are still untouched.

another point is about bombing civilians in Syria. all fucking world is bombing civilians there. especialy western powers. none gave a flying shit about. everyone was just trolling when CIA-paid ISIS used CIA propaganda equipment to make their movies of executions and other shit. and now you fuck are playing high moral cards here?

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>>70532344
oh by the way, here's your former vice president chairing a meeting in the free ukraine that state department officials chose the governement for contrary to that cuntry's standing constitution

his son has a business share in ukrainin oil industry now i think. he's not a very good source on the stuff

>>70530910
And Finland and Caucasian states

>>70528470
We have voice of America, Al Jazeera, Deutche welle, France24 (or smth) too actually.

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Opposition websites don't really matter, because internet isn't as widespread in Russia, especially among older generations. That's why the Russkie government hasn't cracked down on them that hard.

But TV and radio? That's where most Russians get their news. Opposition TV and radio channels are under constant attack by the Kremlin and either have to support the government or face getting their operating permits revoked. This has resulted in channels like Echo of Moscow to support Putin because otherwise the channel would be banned.

So yeah, there are no free TV or radio channels in Russkie land. Not that it bothers them, Russkies are a slave people.

>>70532367
>i think there's a high chance that you didn't believe cia unsubstantiated claims about iraq in 2003 but believe them now about russi.
I'm 21. I was 8 years old when the Iraq war started. I had no opinion of it at all at that time.

I just think that it is awfully fucking suspicious that RT is mostly pro Trump (even the progressives like Hartmann's show criticize Trump, but dismiss anything linking Trump to Putin), and that Trump talked about A) lifting the sanctions on Russia B) complimented Putin several times publicly C) refused to put Russia on the Muslim ban list, even though your Muslims already attacked us.

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>>70532439
>if go into real facts russians have all right to invade Ukraine because they have agreements with Ukrainians for such situation like coups
"if we stop supporting you pls invade us :D"

how is life in germaniya, you diaspora fuck?

>>70532514
> Opposition websites don't really matter, because internet isn't as widespread in Russia,
well we're not European by that metric but pretty sure we're well above countries like Ukraine and it's growing very fast

>>70532514
>because internet isn't as widespread in Russia

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA SRIOUSLY WHAT DO YOU SMOKE IN SWEDEN TO POST THIS UTTER SHIT HERE?

>>70532514
see
>>70532501
>>70530768
you don't know shit pekka

>>70532439
>Putin has not invaded Ukraine. stop talking shit.
Where are the pro Russian militants getting all these supplies then? Why has Russian built up its military along the border with Ukraine.

>and if go into real facts russians have all right to invade Ukraine
Ukraine is a sovereign nation. They have a right to protect their borders. Russia does not have a right to Ukrainian territory.

>>70532568
Among younger people maybe, but you're still miles behind Europe. And as I said, most Russkies still get their news from TV.

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>>70532599
>Where are the pro Russian militants getting all these supplies then?
Ukrainian depots and basements of old babushkas who just happened to store a few dozen 9K37 Buk anti-aircraft missiles :DDD

>Ukraine is a sovereign nation. They have a right to protect their borders. Russia does not have a right to Ukrainian territory
Nonsense, it used to be a part of Russia so it is Russia! If you claim otherwise you are a RUSSOPHOBE, reeeeeeeeee!!!

>>70532451
>oh by the way, here's your former vice president chairing a meeting in the free ukraine that state department officials chose the governement for contrary to that cuntry's standing constitution
Ukraine is a democracy. Even if what you're saying is true, their transitional government stopped existing a while ago and was replaced with an elected one.

It's pretty difficult to find unbiased media no matter where you're from.

But American news is probably the most downright retarded out of any of the free countries.

>>70532514
>Echo of Moscow supoorts Putin
WTF am I reading here?
The problem with most of our opposition is they don't actually fight the regime, they just whine about how russians are inferior and it is useless to build any form of state with such people. Ofc people don't watch/hear them even if they want. There is also such a menthality here that people consider any political non monilithness as saboutaging the country.

>>70532529
> RT is mostly pro Trump
watch "redacted tonight" or something
i enjoy it no less than any other lib shows like that daily jew guy, colbert or those shows by smantha bee or john oliver. and it's MORE anti-trump and MORE liberal, if anything.

RT is not reporting the way your MSM does but it doesn't hide its affiliation despite its funding system being pretty much the same as BBC and even more removed from the government than american Broadcasting Board.

sure RT is pro-Russia, it's in the fucking name. but no i wouldn't call it pro-trump, far from it. putin won't close it up now that trump's in office, that's for sure

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>>70532662
>they just whine about how russians are inferior and it is useless to build any form of state with such people
Well, they're completely right about that. I'd be frustrated too if I were trying to build a functioning liberal democratic republic with a market economy in a country filled with Russkies with a Russkie mindset.

>>70532655
not ukraine is not a dmocracy in any sense, surely it's not more democratic than russia, it's media restrictions are more severe, a president owns one of the biggest networks and their leaders were literally picked in a telephone conversation of middling state dept officials.

not too democratic, that

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>>70532754
that's a very stupid thing to build
you should build space rockets instead

>>70532592
BWHAHAHAHA xD LOL (he is right)

>>70532827
no he's not
go down to the metro and see people reading spartphone news, some even in english

>>70532699
I only watch the Big Picture with the Hartmann guy, but even though they are anti Trump, they aren't very anti Russian.

When you search "Trump" on RT, several of the articles are pro Trump, most are neutral, and I didn't see any anti Trump articles on the first page.

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>>70532758
No, their leaders were elected by the Ukrainian people in internationally monitored democratic elections amongst multiple competing parties with different ideologies, ideas and leaders.

>>70532827
>>70532514
we're about Cyprus, Slovenia, Poland-tier
http://www.internetlivestats.com/internet-users-by-country/

>>70532856
Yes, in larger cities the middle class uses the internet but a vast majority of people do not, or only use it very rarely. Of course people in Moscow or Piter use it, but in Kemerovo? Altai? Dagestan? lol no.

>>70532758
>not ukraine is not a dmocracy in any sense
If Ukraine isn't a democracy, Russia isn't either. But even if Ukraine isn't a democracy, they still don't deserve to be invaded by "volunteers" from Russia. Isn't it hypocritical to condemn the US for invading Iraq because they weren't a democracy, but support what is happening in Ukraine because they "aren't" a democracy and are hostile to Russia's agenda?

>>70532196
>Russia is 148th out of 179 in terms of press freedom
In the list made by the United States for the purposes of the United States' foreign policy. I'm telling you, our mainstream media aren't completely independent but they nowhere near china- or north-korea-tier. Also, our people have all the opportunities to get non-government supported news with actual criticism. We have american news agencies here. We have russian anti-government news agencies. They're not oppressed, it's just our people do not want to read them.

Being able to choose what to do and what to read is the definition of freedom.

>>70532599
>Where are the pro Russian militants getting all these supplies then?

first define "pro-russian" and second stop talk a shit. the weaponry is officially purchased in Abhasia, Osetia, Armenia, China(most drones there are chinese) and Russia (non letal equipment). if it were up to me i would sell them even german weaponry. its fucking business and you have to respect it you fuck. i dont hear you spit any shit about USA completely financing ukrainian army and neonazi "volunteer battalions" of ukrainian inner ministry. or Israel and NATO paying medical and vacation bills for wounded banderas. or EU countries "lending" own special forces to Ukraine so they kill local in Donbass. Lituania and Estonia just gave banderas heavy infantry equipment and old soviet tanks for fighting in summer 2017. Polish Plumbers literally have 2000 man army in Donbass robing and massacring people there. do i hear any voices from your side about? you pity fuck of shit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHClFGiWaKg#t=1746

>>70532896
well, some whole region didn't partake in the elections, elections were held amid army that yanukovich didn't use being used against Ukrainian citizens, illegal parliament votes to restrict Russian speakers' rights, in fact, President was "impeached" without a required majority that rebels couldn't get even with armed men of uknown affiliation "guarding" the parliament.

Ukraine still has military units of shady status operating uncheked, armed people unofficially taking desision to cordon off areas of the country without any sort of popular vote, and ukrainian government has lower approval than the Yanukoich government

nope, not democratic

>>70532514
>internet isn't as widespread in Russia
Ayyy lmao. Literally everybody has internet.

>>70532921
you're wrong, we're above several EU members in terms of internet penetration >>70532903

>>70532952
>I'm telling you, our mainstream media aren't completely independent but they nowhere near china- or north-korea-tier.
I'm not saying that they are. Clearly if they were, you wouldn't be allowed to post here because of government control over the internet.

>We have russian anti-government news agencies. They're not oppressed, it's just our people do not want to read them.
Your people don't want to read them because the government owns most of the media that isn't on the internet.

>>70532954
>i dont hear you spit any shit about USA completely financing ukrainian army and neonazi "volunteer battalions" of ukrainian inner ministry.
I can condemn the neo nazi battalions like the Azov Battalion. However, I don't think they represent the government or the people of Ukraine. The legitimate government of Ukraine invited the US military to train their soldiers, that's not supporting nazism.

Who cares if Ukrainians are right wing (but not nazis)? People tend to become more conservative when their sovereignty is under attack, as it is with Russia.

>>70532947
of course it's isn't hypocritical to do what the US has put in practice as long as US doesn't disawov the methods used. means we're just playing somebody else's game, and russia doesn't even scratch the surface in terms of sheer human suffering. plus, russia actually has support on the ground which isn't hard when Kiev is so extremely ruthless with any dissenters.

i mean, we've been talking about dead journalist just now. More die in Ukraine now, mostly those crititcal of the government.

so if we're not a democracy (we're a very flawed one sure) we're slowly moving in the right direction or maybe standing still. ukraine is running the wrong way with all the restricive laws on madia and russian language and extremely unpopular goevernment and president

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>>70532896
>their leaders were elected by the Ukrainian people in internationally monitored democratic elections

there was no such monitoring you fuck. also ukies starved a town to get right votes. they just put road posts around Dnepropetrovsk and stopped bread and potato delivery to the shops there 3 weeks before the votes. then ukrainian inner intelligence officers send an "business offer" to everyone to agree and sign the document that they will vote right fuck into the office then the deliveries will start again.


here video what they did to local idiot, who dared to rise the voice against such practices.

>>70533074
>However, I don't think they represent the government or the people of Ukraine.
that's the point, they don't represent anybody but a tiny fraction of radicals. yet they're a powerful force in Ukriane.

that's the state of Ukrainian democracy in a nutshell

>>70532514
>Opposition TV and radio channels are under constant attack by the Kremlin
Sure, friend, that's exactly why the then president Medvedev said "I read the online version of the "New Paper" (one of the most popular anti-government newspapers) regularly. One doesn't have to like a news source but it must exist in order to criticize and stimulate the government."

>>70528426
Go ahead and run away, hide from the searing light of truth. Hide in the shadow and wait for crumbs from your master.

>>70533107
Ukraine is undergoing a civil war right now. The US suspended its civil liberties during our civil war. That's not the most undemocratic thing to do. Also, iirc the anti Russian language legislation was repealed for being unpopular.

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>>70532983
>well, some whole region didn't partake in the elections
Yes, because you fucking invaded them

>elections were held amid army that yanukovich didn't use being used against Ukrainian citizens
The only army that was being used against the Ukrainian population was the Russian army in addition to gangs imported from Russia

>illegal parliament votes to restrict Russian speakers' rights
In Ukraine you speak Ukrainian, nothing illegal about removing the official status of Russian. It was the language of the oppressor after all.

>President was "impeached" without a required majority that rebels couldn't get even with armed men of uknown affiliation "guarding" the parliament.
The said President had forfeited his rights by ordering soldiers to murder his own countrymen and then promptly escaping to Russia.

In accordance with the Constitution, the acting President then took over the duties of the President until democratic and internationally monitored elections could be held in all parts of Ukraine that were not under illegal Russian occupation.

>armed men of uknown affiliation "guarding" the parliament
Yes, pic related. The State Council building in Simferopol.

>>70528294
Press never be free ewerywhere.

>>70533185
whoa
somebody's bitter with russia for no reason

>>70533148
But they aren't that powerful.

>>70533198
> the anti Russian language legislation was repealed for being unpopular.
that's another showcase of who's in charge in ukraine. yeah it was repealed, again, they didn't even have the votes to impeach Yanukovich.

but right now, an even harsher anti-russian legislation is in the parliament. agenda of those radicals didn't go away.

Oh and don't tell kiev leaders it's a civil war. they disagree.

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>>70533074
>The legitimate government of Ukraine

you fuck! the bandera goverment has only 2-5% support of ukrainian population. what a fucking legitimate are you talking about?

>>70533208
No, but it can be more free in some places than in others.
>>70533226
Sure thing boy, when I have contempt for someone brainwashed to the extent when he thinks media freedom is as bad or even worse in USA than in Russia it must mean that I hate the whole Russia and everyone in it.

>>70533267
If Russia is so great, why don't you live there?

>>70533207
> The said President had forfeited his rights by ordering soldiers to murder his own countrymen
soldiers only murdered ukrainian counrymen under a new government. if you're talking about a case of somebody shooting at the protestors in kiev, then
1. there were no soldiers there, just police units
2. case about it couldn't pass the court, they still dont know who fired the first shots. but there was that bbc interview with the protestor who claimed he was first

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>>70533111
>there was no such monitoring you fuck
Yes there was.

In the presidential election
>The Central Election Commission of Ukraine (CEC) had registered 543 international official observers on 2 May 2014. On 23 May (two days before the election) this number had risen to 3,607
>Among others OSCE's Office for Democratic Institutions and Human Rights, OSCE's Parliamentary Assembly, the Ukrainian World Congress and the United States sent observers

In the parliamentary election:
>A total of 2,321 international observers were registered to monitor the election. 304 of them on behalf of 21 states and 2,017 from 20 international organisations.

>they just put road posts around Dnepropetrovsk and stopped bread and potato delivery to the shops there 3 weeks before the votes. then ukrainian inner intelligence officers send an "business offer" to everyone to agree and sign the document that they will vote right fuck into the office then the deliveries will start again
No international observer recorded anything remotely like that. On the contrary, observers in both the presidential and parliamentary election reported that the election process went smoothly in both Dnipropetrovsk and the surrounding oblast. Also, the only thing I'm seeing in that video is a traffic jam.

Picture related, the people of Dnipropetrovsk voted for opposing candidates; 3 anti-government and 2 pro-government candidates won.

>>70533227
those armed volunteers blew up a power line to crimea and now blocked off all traffic with beseiged regions it's not policy of elected officials, it's just radicals doing what they please

And government can't do anthing.

>>70533345
>1. there were no soldiers there, just police units
There were heavily armed Berkut troops there, and the president ordered them to shoot.

Ukrainian soldiers have only fought to liberate the country from Russian occupation.

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>>70533227
>But they aren't that powerful.

rolf.. you cant be this retarded.

https://www.youtube.com/user/SuperSharij/search?query=english

>>70533267
>bandera goverment has only 2-5% support of ukrainian population

Polls show that the pro-Russian party has consistently managed to gain the support of only 8-12% of the Ukrainian population. All other parties are pro-Ukraine.

>>70533391
> the president ordered them to shoot
ukrainian court didn't confirm anything like that. why told you he did?

Ukrainian soldiers have only fought to liberate the country from Russian occupation.
several ukrainians died even before any very organized resistance in the east, pretty sure. but there's a photo of a woman killed in that day-time bombing raid on Donetsk, so yeah ukrainian troops first killed a ukrainian citizen under the current administration.

>>70533420
combined, they have lower rating than Yanukovich

>>70533111
Кaк я тyт в изpaeли a ты тaм :( бля нeвepнo я тoжe cкopo в Гepмaнию cмaтывaюcь :)

У тeбя пoдpyгa pyccкaя или нeмкa ?

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>>70533355
>Yes there was.
#
there wasnt. all western NGOs were siting in the fucking whore houses and gave a shit about complains people told them. i remeber some french guy complaining that when he wanted to visit a voting place his car was stoped right at the border town and he was turn around for "security measures". when he finally got there ukies closed the voting place and brought him to other place where he was surprised to see actors and dancers from other town voting with whole theater in a district center where they dont live at all. after he complained to OSCE the the head of ukrainian bureau simple told him to stop telling lies and demanded from him proofs instead to investigate at all. later his complains were deleted from the reports.

you "opposition candidates" are part of the same oligarch syndicate in Dnepropetrovsk. they even negotiated on phones with each others what to do to get the "right guy" into the office.

>>70533420
>Polls show that the pro-Russian party

again you fuck. define "pro-.russian"

>>70533527
Haдo быть дayнoм чтoб pyccким eхaть в Гepмaнию.

>>70529581
I think RT is more truthful than the BBC.

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https://youtu.be/_tJphAe9h0w

Free press is a meme, Russia has a problem with the fact that the rich are rich enough to pay to brainwash the poor.
Other countries have the same problem.
This problem is made worse by the fact the rich are united, that the rich have as much political power as they do and that Russia has a tradition in efficient propaganda and no tradition in democracy.
Free press would just end up owned by oligarchs. Every faction owning papers pushing their economic agenda.

>>70528294
Russians are well aware of the their country's state. The problem is that they either: (a) don't care, (b) are too afraid or (c) are the ones responsible for it.

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>>70533638
Дa ты 100% пpaв

>>70530921

>laws against "homosexual propaganda"
These laws only come into effect when the "propaganda" is targeted at minors, e.g. when a teacher talks about homosexuality in class.

>I can't read Russian, so I can't read most of those links, but using Google translate on the BBC Russian, I didn't see anything anti government on the first page
Now this is some deep research you did m8

There's a plenty of Kremlin-critical media out there, including Дoждь, Эхo Mocквы, Hacтoящиe Bpeмя etc. We even receive some of them in here in Germany. There are also Russian versions of western media outlets such as Euronews or BBC, as >>70530768 already mentioned.

I agree that Russian state-sponsored media is a never-ending circle jerk (even though there are some kremlin-critical voices during political discussion shows, but they get btfo most of the time). However, independent media does really exist, the thing is that no one watches it.
I hate when Americans talk about topics they have no clue about. Do you really think you know more about the Russian media landscape than an actual Russian?

t. Russian Jew diaspora

Ministry of Ministry of Communications and Mass Communications of Russia has stated that all cable and VPN-services will have to get approval from the government.

The report of the Ministry said that the decision is part of a plan to clean up the Internet from inappropriate content. It is important to note that the prohibition applies to service providers, organizations and their clients. Violation of this law will be severely punished.
"The Russian market of Internet services has signs of disordered development that require urgent regulation and management This is a step to strengthen the security of information in cyberspace.", - The ministry said in a statement.

The ban will come into force on March 31, 2017.
http://4pda.ru/2017/01/28/334576/

>>70535150
Nobody will know how good internet freedom is until they lost it.

>the flag
Cracked me up