Why is Putin called a dictator when he has been the Russian President

>>70475113
Germany is in Europe and Russia is not part of EU.

So it must be a dictatorship :D

>>70475113
Not all countries are as politically unstable as the UK, germany just tends not to flip flop flippantly

>>70475113
because there has been no question over voting fraud in germany, where there has been in russia
also im pretty sure putin's been leader for longer, maybe just changed his title

>>70475113
But Putin was president from 2000-2008 and from 2008-2012 he was the prime minister. Since 20012 he is again the president.

>>70475268
He has, was Prime Minister for 5 years, but had all the power during that time. 10 years president before that so effectively he's been pres for 20 years now.

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>>70475113
I loled.

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>>70475271
>>70475329
>president from 2000-2008 and from 2008-2012 he was the prime minister. Since 20012 he is again the president.
WTF aren't a President and PM the same thing?

>>70475268
He swapped places with medvedev for one term to bypass the limits on consecutive terms in office. He still effectively ruled the country during that period.

>>70475379
prime minister = leader of the largest party in parliament
president = a leader elected by majority vote, rather than whatever parties in majority

both are similar but the president has slightly more power

>>70475379
In most European systems the President holds the same position the queen does here. Mostly ceremonial. In France that's reversed though, the President is important while PM is ceremonial. It looks like Russia has the same system as them. It's pretty stupid, it's basically like having a constitutional monarchy without any actual tradition behind it.

>>70475379
no kek

PM isn't a head of the country, it's always either president or monarch

>>70475518
Our PM is actually the head of state lel

Depends on the country

>>70475508
Pretty much what this guy said

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>>70475494
>>70475508
>>70475518
Wait wait wait... So Putin could return to PM seat and then AGAIN return to Presidency?

Nobody saw this as flawed during construction?

>>70475494
>both are similar but the president has slightly more power
in Russia now yes but when Putin was PM arguably his office had more power

in other countries it differs

In Germany the chancellor(PM equivalent) wields the most power, president is completely irrelevant, in Poland and Italy its like in Germany, in France president is the most important but they still have the PM

>>70475670
Isn't the queen head of the state(represented by a governor)?

The PM should be the head of the government.

>>70475726
>but when Putin was PM arguably his office had more power
well duh, him and his posse will make it so whatever office he holds is in more power
but most commonly, the office of the presidency holds more power than the prime minister

>>70475687
>flawed constitution

Dude before 1933 the German president could disband the parliament for no reason at all which basically lead to Hitler.

>>70475687
Literally yes.
>Nobody saw this as flawed during construction?
Putin has like a 90% approval rating in Russia, they like strongmen leaders that act like he does. You have to realize that they have only been a democracy for only like 25 years and never before, they don't have the same tradition of it that other European countries have. Technically Putin could be voted out at any time, so he's not really a dictator, but the fact that he acts like one is why people keep voting for him. It's kind of a strange situation.

>>70475379
President is like a monarch but you choose him. Pm controls government structures . He is more like a manager
>>70475687
Constitution doesn't matter. You can easily change it

>>70475904
Not in Germany though. In Germany you need 3/4 of the parliament to do so.

>>70475739
Correct, what I meant was the PM leads the country.

>>70475508
>looks like Russia has the same system as them.
In today's Russia, whichever position Putin holds has power, the other one is ceremonial.

99 Acting PM
99-00 Acting Prez
00-04 Prez
04-08 Prez
08-12 PM, because can't have 3 consecutive terms
12-?? Prez again

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>>70475851
>German president could disband the parliament for no reason at all which basically lead to Hitler.
In war time right, or at risk of gridlock? US Constitution can be subverted in war time as well, 'supposedly'.

>>70475862
>>70475904
>they have only been a democracy for only like 25 years and never before
I get that and Russians like stable dictators but didnt anyone express concern about this huge flaw in their system? Or was this intended to expose the person who goes back and forth?

>>70475904
>You can easily change it
You're not supposed to be able to easily change constitutions.

>>70475862
Democracy isn't too highly valued outside the West and even here it seems to be losing appeal to some.

Germany didn't have massive election frude

>>70476023
Personally I don't think term limits are needed for heads of state though. I think they're more needed for positions like MPs/Congressmen that people generally just blindly re-elect every few years just because of what party they're from, without really knowing who they're voting for. With elections for heads of state people are generally informed about the candidates. If Russians like him I don't see why they shouldn't be able to vote for him in as many elections as they like.

>>70475862
Russia has never, at no point in their history been a democracy, buddy.

>>70475985
They will vote as he wants. Numbers doesn't matter in a totalitarian state
>>70476026
Well, unfortunately we live in a world where people often do things they are not supposed to do. It's called real world
>>70476023
People who made it just said nobody that about something like that because they was too naive

>>70476190
If Russians wanted a different leader, they could elect a new one. Period. But they don't, they overwhelmingly approve of him. Even without any electoral fraud fuckery he would still win elections with ease.

>>70475494
>prime minister = leader of the largest party in parliament
not necessarily
prime minister is the leader of government, he doesn't have to be the leader his political party

>>70476283
>If Russians wanted a different leader, they could elect a new one.
Yeah, preferably someone like Yeltsin amirite?

>>70476283
>If Russians wanted a different leader, they could elect a new one.
There's no opposition because being in opposition to putin is dangerous. Any political activity can be done only by government permission, and this basically means that Putin will never allow a real competitor to exist.

> Even without any electoral fraud fuckery he would still win elections with ease.
We wouldn't win if there was real competition and media.

>>70476397
I never said they should/shouldn't, I was just explaining the situation there.

>>70476184
>If Russians like him I don't see why they shouldn't be able to vote for him in as many elections as they like.
I dont care either way, just seems weird they'd have a '2 consecutive term limit' but not have a limit on 'overall' service.

>>70476482
I said in theory an opposition party could win in the current system, not that it's feasible. I'm aware of the obstacles Putin and his party have put in the way of the media and public debate functioning properly, all I'm saying is that when you're in a voting booth, you can, IN THEORY, vote for who you want.

>>70475851
Carl Schmitt did nothing wrong

>>70476482
>>70476597
All it will take is for 1 slip up in the right sector and Putin will become very-very unpopular. 'The bigger they are' so on and so forth.

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>>70475113

>>70476649
A fellow law student?

>>70476597
You vote doesn't matter. I doubt they even count them at this point. They decide how many percent a candidate will get before the elections

>>70476651
Maybe, but economic sanctions have literally fucked the average Russian's shit up. He didn't suffer from that so I think he can survive just about anything. He's a master of framing any negative event in the country as being foreign oppression of Russia, and that's what Russians like to hear.

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>>70476704
>tfw the north atlantic nations are the true haven of democracy

Russia is a cleptocracy. Putin is mafia boss. Mafia can change bosses but it doesn't do it often. People vote for him because he totally controls media and creats image of "no alternatives", political field is simply purged by any rational non marginal opposition. The only ones who left are some terrible nationalists, absolutely batsht mad liberals who wants to dissolve the country or controlled clowns like communistic or Just Russia parties. So Putin looks like the only and the best option. So yes, people vote for him but because he created a situation like that. His buddies basically control almost whole economy and grab everything independent they can. You can't talk about any effectiveness in such system. No competition and total corruption since they simply give oil money to each other through governmental spending and providing every service and retail to citizens.

>>70476852
t.

>>70476738
You would know better than I would and I don't want to lecture you about your own country, but the proportion of Putin supporters vs opposition in Russia seems to be very lopsided. Personally the elections seem genuine to me, but the campaigning beforehand is dirty.

President is the head of the state/country's leader/head of parliment.
A Prime Minister (PM) is the leader of the executive branch of the goverment.

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>>70476852
>political field is simply purged by any rational non marginal opposition. The only ones who left are some terrible nationalists, absolutely batsht mad liberals who wants to dissolve the country or controlled clowns like communistic or Just Russia parties. So Putin looks like the only and the best option. So yes, people vote for him but because he created a situation like that.
Isn't that just where politics are in Russia?

Maybe moderates just don't exist there, a result of the stance Russia has taken in the global order? Moderates don't exist in the US either, because of the 'importance' of our believes (which tie into politics so heavily).

>>70476768
Oil prices did and sanctions are actualy a good thing for Putin to blame what happened on foreign agression instead of real origin of troubles-totaly dependend on oil corrupted economy.

>>70476908
What kind of support are we talking about? If you are a government worker you have to vote for putin or their will fire you. There is no support. It's a not a soviet union

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Putin doesn't have shit on Milo.

The problem at the core of all of Russias problems is that Russians are not white. They therefore are unable to comprehend the true tenets of democracy.

>>70475687
He changed it. In original 1993 version it was said that no one can't be president for more than 2 terms, later he edited it with no more than 2 terms in sequence and also increased term from 4 years to 6

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>>70475113
Because Merkel doesn't assassinate her political rivals.

>>70476994
We never know because nobody even wants to do politics, it is seemed useless. You basically have huge mass of people who directly benefits from the domination of United Russia party, they are basically a one super mafia that controlls all business in the country. This mafia has its army, nave, space program etc. The biggest mafia in the world. We had decent political stage before 1917 revolution actually. WWI really fucked us up I guess actually harder than WWII.

>>70477031
I'm talking about approval ratings. American Presidents often get re-elected with approval ratings of under 50%. Polls from Russia show people against him to be like 15% of the population.

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>>70475379
>amerishart education

pm=head of government
Pres=head of state (and usually government)

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>>70477121
>no one can't be president for more than 2 terms, later he edited it with no more than 2 terms in sequence and also increased term from 4 years to 6
Slick move.

>>70477103
The problem with Russians is visible in Africa. So, in our example we've got one African country next to another. One's Christian, one's Muslim. One's a rising star, one's a shithole and famous for all of its denizens being shitheads. Some cultures are shit and people are blind to their culture's shitness.

>>70477160
She does, kinda. She got and gets rid of all party rivals. Everyone who offered an alternative to her politics is now gone. She is brutal, but not Putin-like

>>70475862
>Putin has like a 90% approval rating in Russia
Youtube>Putin inauguration 2012

>>70477196
Decades of Soviet realpolitik have given Russian government officials lots of practice massaging data and indoctrinating the population.
For sure there's a decent amount of support for Putin, but it's not nearly as monolithic as you think. Opposition has to stay quiet, or else is shut up.

>>70477196
What else should they say if if more than 50% of people work on government and you can be easily fired, put in prison or even killed if you are famous enough

>>70477121
Democracy is just not compatible with the Russian nation, same way communism was not compatible with Germany.
Consider how much weaker Russia was when it was trying to be democratic in the 90s.

>>70477196
Chausescu had 99% approval rating before he was executed. Most of people in Russia are uneducated narrowly-minded rednecks who will change their mind on 180 degrees in some circumstances. But what can lead to such shift? Succesfull military invasion of foreign power? Seems impossible. Total economical crash? Untill they can sell oil it won't be bad enough.
I guess only inner fight inside Putin's mafia can lead to that. I can't really imagine what can cause this, only real western sanctions when western countries actually open their eyes and arrest Putin's buddies kids in London and Swiss bank accounts instead of banning crimean people from buying witcher 3 in steam.

>>70477368
>try to ride a bike for the first time
>fall over
>never try again

>>70477395
that's like breaking legs, not just falling

>>70477368
>Consider how much weaker Russia was when it was trying to be democratic in the 90s
This is what happens when you suddenly lose your fucking empire. It is a miracle that no (real) civil war broke out.
The weakness had nothing to do with democracy but with a weak middle class, on which every democracy relies.

>>70477395
I would say try again but when the person trying is this huge Russian guy with a nuclear weapon in his pocket, I would reconsider.

>>70477485
Breaking legs would be some Pol Pot shit.

>>70477395
We were ruled by the same mafia in 90's. It had nothing to do with any form of democracy. Putin was the director of FSB and PM back then, Medvedev was the director of Gazprom etc. These are the same people and the same system you were cheering for 15 years ago that caused us 7 million people.

>>70476026
You're also supposed to actually follow them and have an independent court dedicated to ensuring that.
None of that matters in Russia.

>>70477368
Actually in 90's Russia were the land of opportunities. Most of economically illiterate population literally changed their vouchers for vodka and charged it with TV

>>70477586
>Most of economically illiterate population literally changed their vouchers for vodka and charged it with TV
You talking about credit cards?

>>70477521
Head of FSB from 1998, PM from 1999 and President in 2000. All railed by Yeltsin. When he became the president he pardoned anything Yeltsin "might have done" in office. It's pretty obvious Yeltsin had done something extremely dirty and the KGB sniff-hound had all the juicy details and evidence of it.

>>70477586
Vouchers had expiration time, 99% of population simply couldn't do anything with them. It was recognized all over the world that privatization that was done by our government in 90's was terribly arranged and basically led to hijacking of the country by thieves and gangsters. So what opportunities are you talking about? No cheap credits, no infrustructure, no purchasing power. It is like saying Somalia is land of opportunitis-just build up a gang and raid ships cruising through.

>>70477631
He's talking about privatisation where you could get state property for free or almost free, which was used to great effect by speculators.

>>70477701
You don't need classified intel to see what nasty things Yeltsin did.

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>>70477277
The difference is in the whole killing people part.

>>70477734
Washington consensus was a mistake. And the few good things about it were never even implemented properly.

>>70477792
Tell me more.

>>70477784
>>70477631
Yes. Every citizen of Russia got its share but the problem was these had expirationf time when you had to buy it off. Who were those only people who had money back then right after the collapse? Thieves and gangsters. They simply bought off the whole country for laughable prices.

>>70477586
>Most of economically illiterate population literally changed their vouchers for vodka and charged it with TV

>radical price liberalization causes hyperinflation
>hyperinflation undermines enterprises' ability to carry out any activity
>they are being shut down that lead to unemployment or just not able to pay salaries
>people sell out vouchers since they become almost useless piece of paper

stupid Russians...

indeed

>>70477631
It like shares but they are basically useless if you don't have majority of them
>>70477701
Putin was Berezovskiy's project to become a president but Putin outwitted him

>>70477841
1.Collapsing the Soviet Union.
2.Not uniting with Belarus though they asked for that.
3.Checnya
4.Mass poverty
5.Total decay of every social service, organizations, science, education etc etc etc.

>>70477631
About voucher privatization. Anyone could invest it in natural resources corporations and forget about all problems until mid 00's when started persecutions on oligarchs and their non-government companies. If you;re lucky and invested in Gazprom, then you would had forget about all problems till mid 10's

>>70477916
Not quite as juicy as the kind I was imagining.

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>>70477916
you forgot about the main Yeltsin's crime

>>70477986
We lost 7 millions people and basically 2 generations turned into nigger tier bydlo, dunno what can be nastier.

>>70478034
He literally fucked toddlers or some shit.

>>70475268
There's no fraud, it's just foreigners don't realize the alternatives are literally a neo nazi and a communist party. That's why people vote for putin

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>>70477845
>>70477856
So Russians got to participate in liquidation process of their country in early 90s?

And then the thieves and mob money bought up everything for cheap...

Is this how Soviet Union effectively ended? A group of detractors in the Union must have knew Western bankruptcy laws could make them rich.

>>70477980
>If you;re lucky and invested in Gazprom, then you would had forget about all problems till mid 10's
So they encourage everyone to join 1 mob or its rival based on which has better private interests?

This does sound scary and confusing.

>>70475113
Putin was prime minister before he was president and president before then hes been in power for just as long, hes also consolidated power in the Russian presidency and manipulated elections and press.

>>70477916
I agree only with 3 point. 1, 4, 5 would have happened no matter of him

>>70477378
Turn off your proxy.

>>70475113
Putin will be replaced by Shoygu in 2018. But I think Merkel will be re-elected again and again until she dies.

>>70475379
presidents lead the executive branch, PMs are leaders of the legislatures. Our prime minister is pretty much like your senate majority leader and that's mostly how it translates to other countries which have parliaments.

>>70478091
Yes. The Soviet union has fallen by the hands of system it raised.
>>70478145
Like all of that didn't happen in Poland or Czechia or was softened a lot the same way it could go here, it was totally his fault.

>>70478091
No lad, soviet union was unsustainable shit with its directive economy already.

Privatisation was part of transition towards market economy. It was an amazing socioeconomical experiment on planetary scale and it turned lives of millions to even greater shit than it already was and soured the notion of "freedom" for them for rest of their lives.
It did make some people phenomenally rich though.

>>70478026
This. He should have been punished for this
>>70477916
1. >Who is Gorbachev
2. They didn't want to be part of Russia. You can read the latest Kuchmas interview about it.
3. It's true. He fucked up entire country by doing this.
4. Not his fault. The economy was destroyed before him. But he didn't prevent devaluation
5. Not his fault again.
>>70478091
There was a good program what to do with all factories but they didn't implement it because they wanted to get money faster and some companies had more money than budget

>>70478171
Fuck off Hans. You fuel this mafia like noone else.

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>>70478171
>Merkel will be re-elected again and again until she dies.
This is starting to scare me.

This thread is scaring me, it belongs on
>>>/x/

>>70476704
>mongolia
didnt expect this desu

>>70478251
>Belarus
>Read Kuchma's interview
wut

>>70478317
Yeah, I meant Kravchuk. My mistake

>>70478376
I was telling about Lukashenko's initiative, it was in 1996, or 1998, something like that.

>>70478257
not him, but what do you mean with "fueling the mafia"?

>>70478250
>It did make some people phenomenally rich
oh and there was a natural selection bias towards cynical, morally bankrupt opportunists with no respect for law in these people.
I'm not saying it was impossible for a good, honest person to win, especially if he had enough imagination to figure out what it was about, but people who were in best position to benefit were
1) criminals operating paralegal gray economy during communism
2) people with connections to influential people
3) foreign persons
and combinations thereof.

And that is why for many people in eastern bloc today terms like "capitalist", "entrepreneur" or simply "rich" have a lot of negative baggage that, what might come as a surprise to some westerners, does not have origins in communist propaganda.

>>70478250
>Privatisation
The problem is what they (reformers) had no plans about any kind of fair distribution of national wealth among the people to create a stong basis of further reforms. Their aim was simple - to seize and divide national wealth among a bunch of future oligarchs and prevent any possible communist reaction.

>>70478453
You buy oil and gas from these people. From murderes and thugs. You are the main consumers. You could end all this shitstorm in few months.

>>70478453
Maybe he's referring to how friendly Germany is with Russian state companies like Gazprom.

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>>70478071
He doesn't really need to rig the elections to win, even western polling agencies confirm that

>>70478467
>The problem is what they (reformers) had no plans about any kind of fair distribution of national wealth among the people
Thats not what privatization is though. Only those who've bought in get control.

>>70478566
but what it was supposed to be but wasnt

>>70478566
The problem is nobody had money, except criminals. That's the problem, it actually lead to such inequality we have now here. Everything is controlled by few people.

>>70478467
Well yes, it's one obvious motive that old guard or at least part of it wanted to reap benefits of capitalist system very, very soon.
But there were probably also people who genuinely believed in magic of free market without knowing what makes market work in first place.
In other words, malice and incompetence. To this day I'm not sure which was more important to people in charge, particularly over here, although I suppose that also varied from person to person.

>>70478516
but we depend your oil and gas very much.
also it is certainly not in your interest that this came to such an abrupt ending which would destabilizing your country and political system. I mean the first thing politicians do when they lose power is creating an foreign enemy to get the support from their people.

>>70478415
It was impossible for the country to handle another big region. Nobody would agree. Maybe he was sincere about it, but I think it he was trying to make our relationship better
>>70478546
That's why every fucking election here is rigged. Because he can win anyway and does it just for fun.

>>70478669
Didn't you have decent privatization there with vouchers etc? At least it's a common perception here that you did things the "proper" way in that regard.

>>70478697
Belarus actually was in very better condition than Russia back then, it would only benefit both countries.
>>70478688
Enjoy your MH-17 and other bullshit like Ukraine.

>>70478566
>Only those who've bought in get control.
Yes, and who's in better position to "buy in" than people who have intimate knowledge of state AND value of the stuff that's being privatised, and that have both knowledge of what that value means in the west and contacts abroad that would allow them access to funding? Primarily those exceptionally skilled at evading the law and those in good graces of the Party. And obviously overlap of those.
And that's not even mentioning corrupt state institutions.

>>70478781
>MH-17
that was holland

>>70478866
This was what caused most sanctions

>>70478775
It ended up relatively well for us, but even so the aberrations Russian anons are talking of were also present, if in smaller extent.

I wouldn't call it "proper", and I think many things could have been done better, especially when it comes to protection of rule of law and of private property of the nascent investors. But in hindsight everything seems easier.

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>>70475670
> Our PM is actually the head of state lel
You dumb faggot.

The Queen of Canada is the head of state, represented by the Governor-General when the Queen isn't here in Canada, and the Prime Minister is the head of the political party that's in power in Parliament.

This man is the highest power in the land in absentia of EIIR as her representative.

>>70479315
Fuck off, I meant it in the sense that he's the leader, already said it... dumb faggot.

>>70479391
Head of State means HEAD of State, and that's the Governor-General. Trudeau just leads the party currently in power in Parliament.

Of course, practically, Trudeau is the man with the most influence over you federally, but technically it's the Governor-General who holds the higher post.

Trudeau's powers don't Supercede Sir Johnstone's. Johnstone is Trudeau boss, basically.

And Johnstone is there representing Queen Elizabeth in absentia.

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It's going to be interesting to see where these guys end up in the history books. They aren't Nazis, communists, nationalists or whatever, there is no ideology, they are just gangsters with nuclear weapons. It's kind of cool tbqh.

>>70479490
Has the senate or GG ever really tried to flex their muscle in modern times? I have a feeling that Canadian taxpayers would put a stop to that real fast if it ever happened.

>>70479924
That's why I said practically, Trudeau excercise far more power and influence, but he still has to answer to the GG. He isn't the Head of State or the highest power in the land. He's the leader of the party that has control in parliament, which is different.

>>70476704
South America will carry the western values forward and save the planet when the inevitable collapse of the western world happens

>>70476994
>Moderates don't exist in the US either
We are so fucked if for just this reason alone

>>70476704
What's the difference between dark green and really dark green?