>Ukraine? No such thing exists. But if it did, Russia would

Russia is far too big already
I don't see why they would need, or even have a claim to grow bigger

Why do folks act like annexing the willing ethnic Russians of Donbass and Crimea is big mean Russia bullying poor innocent Ukraine?

The folks there held referendum to decide if they could leave, and everytime they have been allowed to, they choose to go.

>>69847211
The elections were not free, or at least can't be proven to be free since international monitors weren't allowed to oversee them. Crimea was given to Ukraine legitimately, and the referendum was held without the approval of Ukrainian government.

The real question is, why do you sympathize with Americas enemy (Russia) over our ally (Ukraine)?

>>69845858
You forgot
>I'm an edgy contrarian who bases all his values and political opinions on what gets the biggest reaction out of normal people
>Heil putin

>>69845858
Where's this from?

>>69847518
>The elections were not free, or at least can't be proven to be free since international monitors weren't allowed to oversee them

This is factually incorrect. Election observers from all over the world were present.

https://www.rt.com/news/international-observers-crimea-referendum-190/

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>>69847612
>citing RT to defend Russia

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>>69845858
>>69845949
>>69847518
>>69847559

thank you for korenizing record

>>69847595

CБУ shilling handbook. ignore ukrop diaspora

>>69847518
Because I care about the self-determination of people. I honestly forgive not having it be internationally monitored since we use these things as political tools rather than objectivity plenty often. Either way, you can't prove a negative.
I don't want Russia to be our enemy, it's goofy and we do things like support the absolute shitheads like the FSA to spite them. I don't want some 1984ish reality wherein we are told to hate another country for no other reason than we are told to. I look forward to rebuilding relations with the RF.

The real question is why does Ukraine, a country not innocent themselves in creating this mess, get to hold onto eastern populations against their will?

>>69847760
Same reason why southern US is still in the union.

>>69847760
How would you feel if Mexico ethnically cleansed Texas, replaced the population with Mexicans, then 60 years later held a referendum without the permission of the federal government about Texas joining Mexico? Would you really agree Texas deserves self determination in that case?

>>69847612
>north korean and venezuelan monitors
Totally legit

>>69847788
Lmao, there's no moral reason for it, we don't get to leave because we lost. The original colonies get to leave because they won. Texas got to leave because they won. The CSA doesn't get to leave because they lost. Simple as that.

>>69847816
Like Argentina with the Malvinas

>>69847788

Union was able to beat south in combat

rebels in Donbass have absolutely dumpstered Ukrainian """army""" on multiple occasions and Kiev was only saved by Russian Federation intervention against rebels

>>69847816

difference being that there is such thing as Mexican people. Ukrainian was invented by USSR

>>69847816
Yes, because the people there choose, I don't have an arbitrary right to the soil there.
The real problem was letting it get cleansed in the first place. If I wasn't it, I clear it of the foreigners.

If you want the unrest and violence to end, you just let them go and don't let it happen again.

>>69845858
good post

>>69847816
What about Hawaii? Gov started shipping people and soldiers there like crazy and they too had a "vote".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6s_vMqEPK0

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>>69845858
A нy, чики-бpики и в дaмки.

>>69847959
Yeah, that was unfair too.

>>69845858
Nobody who things Putin is the savior of the white race would criticize the Ukrainian government for being right-wing

They'd mumble about the Jews instead

>>69847612
>Johan Bätmän from Finland was there and said Russia good boy din du nuffing

You have to go back, Ivan

>>69847967
KC tier

>>69848031

Actually this is what I see on /pol from Putinboos

something about left wing jews

>>69847760
And what about the self-determination of the Ukrainian people

>>69848132
The Ukrainian-majority areas get to stay with Ukraine, and literally nobody is asking otherwise.

Mate, I can already tell you're a good-natured American at heart. This anti-Russian phase is a meme pushed by the Obama-Clinton administration. Now that Trump is in office, we'll likely see things look up.
Don't let some bullshit politician's agenda tell you what's morally right and wrong.

>>69848368
Sure thing comrade Ivan.

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>>69848132

>the Ukrainian people

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_Goths
Crimea is germanic and thus our clay, get over it.

>>69848425
Good argument

>>69848368
Anti Russian sentiments are deeply rooted in AMERICAN values of FREEDOM and JUSTICE. This isn't something that came about recently. Our ally got their clay and freedoms infringed upon, it is clear who was in the wrong.

>>69848459

Germanic != German

New Zealanders have about as much claim as Germans do buddy

>>69848459
I'm no joke really upseetti over this.
They were the last East Germanics in existence, and they were gone just as soon as we could have studied them.

>>69848031
I phrased it like that to highlight their doublethink. Russian media is pushing the narrative that Ukraine is extremely far right, and that is a threat to Russia somehow. It's funny to me how far rightists in the west don't see a problem when Putin fear mongers about the far right.

>>69848368
It's funny, a few months ago people's complaint about Obama was that he was too soft on Russia about Ukraine, now those same people are saying he's too tough on them...

>FREEDOM and JUSTICE
For who? Bureaucrats in Kiev or the people Donbass and Crimea?
Was Great Britain's FREEDOM and JUSTICE infringed when American colonists rebelled?

>>69848581
>It's funny, a few months ago people's complaint about Obama was that he was too soft on Russia about Ukraine, now those same people are saying he's too tough on them...
Wasn't me.
Everyone's gonna bitch about something. The opposition party to anything anywhere will complain about the establish about anything.

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>>69848526
Hitler unironically used them as an wewuz argument for future german massresettlement though lel.

>>69848536
Its generally sad when distinct languages die, they say when the next century has passed 2500 will still be alife at best.

>>69848622
Fuck. Meant for >>69848502.

>>69848622
If you have to ask these things you really aren't American.

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>>69848669
>Its generally sad when distinct languages die, they say when the next century has passed 2500 will still be alife at best.
I know

>>69848684
So I'd figure that the locals of the area in question decide then?

>>69848526
new zealand mentioned

>>69848729
Sure the "locals" are going to have a fair "vote", and everything will be fine.

>>69848870

>muuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh rigged votes

The locals are literally taking arms to shoot at the Ukrainian army. I don't know what else could make their desires clear to you.

>>69848870
>it's an unfair election because I don't like the results
Like >>69848902 this anon said, they're literally forming armies to kick Kiev out, why do you refuse to acknowledge their voice?

>>69848902
+15

>>69849066
CTR plz go

>>69849090
You're not fooling anyone Ivan. The smell of vodka and borch on your posts is overwhelming.

>>69845858
>ukraine
>ukrainians
>ukrainian

>>>/x/

>>69849323
Bad dog, Iwan, you're supposed to side with America since we freed you from the grip of the Soviet Union.

>>69849323
gib citizenship to ukraine already dumb pole

>>69849323
>>>/pol/

>>69850050
>>69850167
Leave him alone, he needs those rubles. Desperately, as it seems.

I feel so bad for Ukraine.
>have Russian prisoners imported to eastern Ukraine because that was an anti Russian stronghold during the Russian civil war and Russians would be more loyal to the USSR
>get murdered by the Nazis
>get Holodmored by the Russians
>have the Crimean Tatars deported and Russians imported
>remain occupied by the Russians until the 90s
>still be desperately poor even today because of all that, and because their shithead politicians were pro Russian until recently

>>69850892

>muuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh holodomor

Famines in Russia and Kazakhstan claimed more victims. The Soviets aggressively promoted Ukrainian identity over Russian identity. Without Soviet Union there would literally not be a Ukrainian state in 2016.

>>69851349
t. leftypol

>>69851386

No, you fucking idiot. Everything the Soviets did and created was cancerous and that includes Ukraine.

>>69851349
There wouldn't be?

No, but seriously, the lair of """banderists""" are former Polish voivodships, so can you please teach me more about (sigh) their country?

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>>69851505

No, I certainly don't think so. The Soviets, and Lenin in particular, hated the concept of "Great-Russian nationalism".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Russia

Great Russia is roughly equivalent to modern day Russian Federation. To combat Great-Russian nationalism the Soviet government instituted korenization programs whereby non- Great-Russian languages and cultures where enforced and strongly encouraged.

Soviet korenization programs in White Russia and Little Russia are almost directly responsible for the modern day Belarus and Ukrainian states.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korenizatsiya

Notice the generous gifts of land to Ukraine made by Soviets of territories formerly inhabited by Russians and Poles.

>>69851642
Another post. Another 15 rubles.

>>69851841

30 hryvnias deposited to your account

also not argument

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>>69851841

>estonian defending communism

you can't fabricate these events

>>69851908
Calling out Russian shill shilling is defending communism now?

>>69851962

did you even read his post, retard? Russians were harmed by communism more than anyone else. the bolsheviks actively set out to dismember Russia

>>69851987
His (your?) post was common Russian propaganda. Nothing to do with communism. Just typical Russian lies.

>>69852057

please explain how his claims that communists hated Russia and that the Ukrainian nation was solidified by korenization are "Russian lies"

it sounds like you are just irrationally butthurt against an entire people group for crimes they never committed.

>>69851987
"Russians were the biggest victims of communism" is just the Russian equivalent of white Americans saying that they are 1/16th Cherokee and therefore are genocide survivors.

>>69852098
During the revolution every group was promised everything to win their support. These promises weren't kept of course. Stalin came to power in 1924 so whatever stories Lenin was spreading during some short period had no real effect. In reality Ukraine was heavily Russified and Ukrainian nation and culture were suppressed.

I have seen enough Russian propaganda to recognize it easily. His posts reek of it.

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>>69852221

except it's not. Russian culture, religion, architecture, and language all underwent brutal repression and the Russia that had stood for centuries was torn up and perversely altered in the name of socialism.

>>69851642
I see. Well, at the free side of the 'Net they say that Lenin implemented korienization in Ukraine to RESPOND somehow to the rise of Ukrainian national movement, especially to the foundation of Ukrainian People's Republic. Also, if you really want to seek some conspiracy around birth of Ukrainian nation, I suggest you to search deep in the good, old times of Kaiser Franz-Josef. And for fucks sake, what I want to notice is the generous Soviet gift of Pommern, Schlechsien and parts of Ostpreussen to my state, so why don't you now shove your revisionism right into your your ass, where it belongs?

Also, +5 rubles.

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>>69852290

In reality Ukraine was heavily Russified and Ukrainian nation and culture were suppressed.

my side!

let's look at facts perogi.

>Until the early-1930s, Ukrainian culture enjoyed a widespread revival due to Bolshevik policies known as the policy of Korenization ("indigenization"). In these years an impressive Ukrainization program was implemented throughout the republic. In such conditions, the Ukrainian national idea initially continued to develop and even spread to a large territory with traditionally mixed population in the east and south that became part of the Ukrainian Soviet republic.

>The rapidly developed Ukrainian-language based education system dramatically raised the literacy of the Ukrainophone rural population. By 1929 over 97% of high school students in the republic were obtaining their education in Ukrainian[12] and illiteracy dropped from 47% (1926) to 8% in 1934.[13]

>Most importantly, Ukrainization was thoroughly implemented through the government apparatus, Communist Party of Ukraine membership and, gradually, the party leadership as well, as the recruitment of indigenous cadre was implemented as part of the korenization policies. At the same time, the usage of Ukrainian was continuously encouraged in the workplace and in government affairs. While initially, the party and government apparatus was mostly Russian-speaking, by the end of the 1920s ethnic Ukrainians composed over one half of the membership in the Ukrainian communist party, the number strengthened by accession of Borotbists, a formerly indigenously Ukrainian "independentist" and non-Bolshevik communist party.

>>69852391
Got to earn these 15 rubles I see.

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>>69852330

>Well, at the free side of the 'Net they say that Lenin implemented korienization in Ukraine to RESPOND somehow to the rise of Ukrainian national movement, especially to the foundation of Ukrainian People's Republic.

the point is same. how Lenin reached point where he determined that Ukrainians must dominate Russians is irrelevant

>I suggest you to search deep in the good, old times of Kaiser Franz-Josef.

It's true, Ukraine was first invented by Austria. but Soviets are responsible for heavily developing this meme identity and language and enforcing it

>And for fucks sake, what I want to notice is the generous Soviet gift of Pommern, Schlechsien and parts of Ostpreussen to my state,

How does gift to Poland contradict my point?

>Also, +5 rubles.

get back to construction site, Ukraińcy

>>69852454
>How does gift to Poland contradict my point?

Że kurwa, ty skończony idioto patentowany, jak pozwolimy Ruskim rozebrać Ukrainę i Niemcy się na to zgodzą, to następni w kolejce do rozbioru lecimy my, Polacy.

Go now into your favourite online translator, bo kurwa szkoda mi na ciebie moich słów.