It's over, citizens of the world. Nothing is stopping the

>>69643894
>tyranny of the majority
stopped reading there

What does this mean for Portugal?

Fuck the EU

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I bet its a real tragedy for you

>>69643894
Europe ever uniting was a laughable thing.
You guys can barely get over some wrongdoing that happened 500 years ago.

>>69645224
did you invent this pig meme?

>>69643894
Learn. English. (not you, specifically, the rest of you)

Maybe then you'll be able to form a truly cohesive union.

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>>69643894
Truly, a tragedy.

>>69645237
At least they existed five hundred years ago

>>69645305
That really is the problem with Europe in the modern age though.
They will forever be doomed to come close to unity, and then have it torn from their hands due to their own history getting in the way.

>>69643894
SUCK IT GLOBALISTS

>>69645224
I see you've got some euros brother

>>69643894
>Where were you when the European dream died, /int/?
Bailing German, French, Italian and Dutch banks.

>And how long will we have to wait to see it reborn again?
Too long if ever

>>69647624
wow thank you greece
it is so selfless of you do bail our banks

>>69647889
You're welcome

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>>69643894
The will of the people is the precise opposite of tyranny, you idiot.

Tyranny is when the will of an individual or a tiny collective trump's everyone else's.

Also, fuck the European Union. We don't need anymore continental Empires. Russia, the USA, China, India and Indonesia are enough. If anything, we need more balkanisation.

>>69643894
>The vice chancellor of Germany has finally admitted that the collapse is no longer a mere fantasy for Daily Express editors
Its just election time talk. I wouldnt pay too much attention to it

>>69648587
Don't brush this off, Hans. I remember back in 2015 when I started researching the European Union a statement like this would have been outlandish. The European Union was simply part of the furniture.

Now the vice-Chancellor of the nucleus country of the EU is questioning the long term existence of the Union to garner support before an election.

That tells you all you need to know; the EU is in question, even in Germany. pro-EU sentiment has been in major decline since the migrant crisis and the brexit debates.

>>69648742
Because there was no election in Germany 2015

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>the EU is falling apart
>Donald Trump is about to be president
>Russia will be friendly to the US for the first time in decades
>the US is going semi-isolationist and going "fuck you" mode
>globalism is being laughed at as a stupid dream

We are living in great times lads. The world needed this to understand better, how things really work.

>>69648796
I mean up to that point in general.

There were only fringe parties in the UK and Denmark agitating against the EU, and some bitter Greeks wanting to exit the Eurozone. Now it's become a staple of right-wing parties in all of Europe, and even in Germany.

Not to add that Euroscepticism has also risen sharply among the left-wing, and the only thing keeping left-wing European parties begrudgingly pro-EU is that post-nationalism gives them a hard on. A lot of these left-wing parties are talking about "reforming" the EU; i.e. subverting and diluting what the union was envisioned and is working towards being.

>Thread on the collapse of the EU
>Full of american drumpf supporters

Fuck you we will resist

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But I voted to remain!

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>>69649058
I hate how anti-EU is correlated with pro-Trump. I can admit that they had similar electoral trends, but one is being sceptical of a grandiose political project that seeks to absorb sovereign states, the other is supporting an 80 IQ, silver spoon, inarticulate, conman for leader of the free world.

Though I have to admit, as much as I dislike Trump as a person, and how little I think he is to be trusted with authority, maybe an foul-mouthed orangutan is what it takes to shake up the status quo. He's a terrible choice for POTUS, but sometimes poison can be a remedy.

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>>69649058

I voted for him, but only because I grew up with Bill Clinton and his regulations destroyed the timber industry, and he didn't seem to give a fuck about us in my region.

Representatives BEGGED him not to place EPA regulations on timber in my region. We tried to tell him that we were logging ethically to ensure the prevention of forest fires. We had it down to a science.

It was basically, "nope, fuck you, you can't cut down any of these trees because it placates the people that vote for me." When, we'd have voted for him if he'd have supported our ideas. Meanwhile, forest fires devastate our region, burn down houses and displace families because we weren't allowed to log those areas.

Then we get Hillary Clinton. There was barely a word from her mouth that wasn't a lie, perhaps from birth. We already, as a people didn't like here family but you couldn't believe a word she said.

We were placed in the voting booth and asked-

Who do you trust, the mobster or the pathological liar?

We knew they were the same thing, but we chose the mobster. At least half of what he said might be what he believed.

Pity the American, where a choice is no choice at all.

>>69643894
Post 1995 expansion was a mistake.

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kikes can fool the goyim some time

but they cant fool all the goyim all the time

Who will pay us to send refugees to Europe if EU dies?

>>69649058
It's surprising because I often see Americans in favour of the EU and slagging the UK off for voting to leave.

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>>69643894

>>69645291
Why the fuck would we want to do that? We need to recover our independence and run our own economic and monetary policies. When I was growing up Spain still had industry and it was all hocked off by the Socialists to please their new EU overlords, turning us into a tourist resort and orange grove with skyrocketing unemployment on the long run. We need to bring jobs back and the only way to do that is to devalue our currency.

>>69643894
>the European dream
Sounds fucking gay, glad it's over.

>>69649397
Spend a lot of time on reddit do you?

>It's always anglo posters predominantly in these threads.
Really flares up my neurons.

>>69645224
LOL its janny

>>69643894
>European dream

What is that supposed to be? Not killing each other?
Other countries manage to do the same without an institution like the EU.

>>69649397
Those are the worst kind of people. No American would ever agree to be part of something that curtailed our sovereignty in such a way, so it's laughable seeing them whine about what you did. Independence for America and nobody else, I guess.

>>69649487
God no, but I've seen a lot of Americans on here with those views.

>>69649535
>No American would ever agree to be part of something that curtailed our sovereignty in such a way, so it's laughable seeing them whine about what you did.

It was weird for Obama to come out and say the UK should stay, yet would never suggest such a thing for his own country.

>>69649520

Exactly. Attributing the peace of the 20th century to the EU is like attributing rain to a shaman's rain dance. And yet the Eurocrats are constantly trying to scare us into line by agitating the spectre of an impossible war.

Fortunately the generation of old geezers who were traumatized by war is dying out and the younger generations are less sensible to this crying wolf tactic.

>>69649520
Actually, here on North America we have a little thing called NAFTA. We let the USA write our laws and we have to pay them 300,000,000 a year to be ruled by a Senate in St Louis, Missouri.

But it's all worth it, because one day they will absorb our country and we will be a continental superpower and BTFO the Chinese.

EU Enlargement into the former warsaw pact and Yugoslavia is what killed the EU. It was perfect in 1995.

Now the only justification Martin Schultz can give is 'b-b-b-but russia was a threat!'

>>69649535

We MIGHT support a Union that included the UK/AUS/NZ/CD but we would demand a leadership role and refuse a unified currency.

So, it's never going to happen. We really like whatever the fuck those guys did in the 1700's and we're not to keen to give it up.

>>69649535
>and nobody else
Unless you happen to be the confederates :^)

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>>69649646

I just have to say because it's driving me nuts, you have the palest, cutest fucking girls ever Ireland.

Then again it got a little more than annoying being called "cowboy" in Dublin.

>YER FREM MONTANA
>ERR YEH COWBOY
>COWBOY
>NOTHER BIT OF SPIRIT, COWBOY

I'm telling them I'm from Canada next time I'm in Dublin.

Great , the tyrant night of capitalism has come to an end for my European comrades. They shall awake , awake with the enlighthened ideology of the workers. Strike they shall , strike for bread , education and equality. May the glorious Communist dawn that is coming shall never end for Europe.

>>69649809
Nice red flag there comrade

>>69649809
You sound like a commie. Erdogan is coming for your traitor ass next.

>>69649764
Shut the fuck up, John Wayne

>>69649809
>Capitalism
>not wanting smaller countries to manipulate
We've just fodder in the american sphere

>>69649866
How beautiful it would be , with the sickle and hammer on it.
>>69649882
>you sound like a commie
Oh really

>>69649646
Consider the following.
Imagine a world where eastern Europe never joined EU.
Lets see how things would be different in regards to the problems most associated with EU.

EU immigration from E.Europe - check, great, that's solved to some degree because it can be limited at any time, ignoring all the people that would be able to move regardless

EURO crisis - not solved, E.Europe is outside that anyway, Greece is still fucked, the flaws are still there

Refugee crisis - not solved, E.E tells EU to shove it just like it does now, Germany still takes Syrians and anybody claiming to be one, Italy takes africans just like usual

Brexit - britbongers are still the most erosceptic nation and oppose EU integration on all fronts, them leaving may be delayed a decade at best

by the way before you bring up 'le eu structure funds', UK pays 3rd worlders in aid as much as it pays EU, I don't have to tell you which they get more in return for

>>69649967
Don't pretend to forget that you all get billion of euros from us.

>>69649415
I-I like Mogherini.

>>69650027
Ok. Stop the funding. It's that simple. You won't because money goes around and eventually come back to you and you know it. Ok now?
Stop giving money. I actually dare you to do so.

*smug anime face*

>>69649415
The Italian EU minster is a milf

>>69649900

I'm really conflicted because I think I just got a compliment in the frame of an insult.

It's like being Australian and being called Crocodile Dundee. It's like,was that supposed to be an insult? The stereotype fits but...we don't sort of like it.

Then again-

>wrestle a crocodile
>wrestle a brown bear

Seems very manly but fuck you if any sane person would actually do that.

>>69643894
tl;dr: emo faggotry

>>69650115
Only Merkel can decide this tbqhwyfam, and I'm not even German.

>>69649646
And the UK pushed for the expansion

>>69650115
you are like those beggars refusing 50cents coins before saying they only accept 5€ bill and they cursing that they would be better alone, when you finally tell them to fuck off.

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I am a religious person but I'll drink to death when to EU offically over.

>>69650027
see the last paragraph, the money is very significant to us, but it really isn't to the west
western countries dump money in africa to get various outcomes, what is the big deal when they do it in EUrope?
Hell, the outcomes are much more reliable because EU laws automatically apply or have to be implemented to a date.

>>69643894
>daily express

Doubts

>>69650204

Good strategy if you actually wanted to destroy it.

If I was thinking in terms of half a century, I would do exactly what the UK did.

>>69650197
Yes, but you are France. You are a large country with major research facilities, industry and culture. You can "push" harder if you want.

>>69643894
Good. If Europeans don't want to hang together then let us all hang in separation.

>>69650266
But that's what I said exactly.
Stop the funding. Do it.

>>69650333
Depends on who will be elect next year. Then I'll have to personally convince him to go against the EU, which he won't and I actually don't want :s

>>69650287

We literally game African countries arms for years in hopes that they would wipe each other out. We didn't realize that they could reproduce faster than they could kill one another.

They're also extremely stupid. People went to Africa to show them how to use condoms. They put condoms on the head of brooms to represent a penis in villages. When they came back, and wondered why all the women were pregnant. They went into the huts and saw brooms with condoms on them. They are so stupid that they don't understand figurative ideas.

>>69650397

*gave

>>69650383
Welp I guess we'll just have to stay put like a good boy and rot then.

>>69650451
Why don't you want our money ?

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>>69643894
>Eternal Anglo saves Europe once again

Thank you, lads.

>>69650594
Putting more debts on top of other debts doesn't sound like a good idea in the long run.

>>69650383
That's right. Has it ever occurred to you why is it that political options in relation to EU are either "We're pro-EU, calm the fuck down." or "BURN IT ALL DOWN"?

Why is there literally nobody in the politics and surrounding media that would offer well thought out, comprehensive strategies to deal with present day problems?

Why all the "opposition" rides the populism wave of slogans and simple, yet impracticable answers?

Why emotion triumphs over reason?

>>69650685
>Why all the "opposition" rides the populism wave of slogans and simple, yet impracticable answers?
>Why emotion triumphs over reason?

Like EU officials visiting Autschwitz and saying "Oy vey, be pro-EU or this shit will happen all over again"? Or maybe like visiting verdun and saying "Oy vey, be pro-EU or this shit will happen all over again"? Or visiting the beaches of Normandy and...

>>69649520
The EU is a Belgian selfdefence mechanism.

>>69650769
Well EU is a community of nations that cooperate more closely than any others. But I never got this specifically from those events. What I got from them was
>We must respect natural rights and dignity of every individual so that atrocity like this doesn't happen again
when it comes to Auschwitz and
>Innocent people suffer and die in an armed conflict, war is bad
when it comes to war remembrances.

The EU was only created to keep Germany from rolling all over Europe again.

Since other Europeans ran out of made up reasons to gang up on them they choose to tie up each others economies.
But you finally did it, instead of accepting global dominance under our rule you sold Europe out to Burger fatsos and drunk slavs, good job France and ´Britain and good job Poland for being the dumbest sheep ever, I hope youre proud.

>>69651105

daddy fuhrer step on me bitte

>>69651172
I will you dirty maggot.

>>69643894
Hopefully it will be a moment when Europeans will have each others back in in the crises to comes.

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good, I wipe my ass on this kike attempt of a fuck over of a "union".

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>>69651105
you sound ass blasted. jery


fuck goymoney

>>69645237
>some wrongdoing that happened 500 years ago
Your mother.

>>69649256
The ultimate goal of the EU is not federalism. And Trump is literally anti-EU and wants it gone. Anti-EU folks might not like him, but pro-Trump folks certainly like them.

>>69651759

>>69648930
All we can hope is that the nationalist parties gain power in the Netherlands, France and Germany (although Germany probably won't happen)

>>69652161
Netherlands and Germany will not happen, 0% chance due to how the system works (unless we get a referendum, which we won't or it will be ignored (much like our referendum on Ukraine)). France stands a chance because it has direct presidential elections, but even there I'm afraid that the people willing to vote against the "evil racist" Le Pen are more numerous than those who support her.

As much as I hate people who do it, I kind of wish Le Pen would play the female card, forcing feminists to support her despite disagreeing with her. Though on the flip side, she'd lose a lot of my respect if she did that.

>>69645412
European countries have nothing in common with each others, there can be no federalism except through conquest, the union.meme is just that, a globalist meme.

>>69653119
>European countries have nothing in common with each others
Notice that when Eurocrats talk about "European values" they talk about values that were adopted in Western Europe in the 60s at earliest and are incredibly unpopular in some parts of Eastern Europe.

I think some Southern European countries actually wanted the Treaty of Lisbon to refer to Christianity as the common root of European values (you know, because that would actually make fucking sense) but Nothern countries rejected it because it would hurt the feefees of muzzies and "muh secularism means muh denial of religion altogether".

>>69653304
but what are "european values" tho? It's nothing tangible.

>>69653364
There aren't any, just western values. Democracy, liberalism etc.

Im gonna fix eut

>>69653364
Getting killed by Sallah and Sambo and saying thank you.

>>69653119
Yes, you're right of course. Civil and human rights are bullshit, democracy doesn't work anyway. Universal suffrage and liberalism are overrated. Europe is of degenerate and gay, not moral and strong like Russia, Iran, Saudi Arabia or China.

>>69653494
how.many cans of cat food do you get for peddling this bullshit ?

Laïcité

>>69653494
these are hardly unifying values. heck, by that logic Japan would make a perfect candidate to the EU

>>69653563
only my good conscience.
Which is worth more than your roubles.

>>69643894
>European dream
it never existed

>>69653619
Kek there you have it, the globalist religious zealot who thinks he'll go.to heaven if he preaches his jewish satanism.

>>69653597
>these are hardly unifying values
They should be. But they're not really too important to us.
>by that logic Japan would make a perfect candidate to the EU
I wouldn't mind desu, although it would mean calling it EU would be rather silly.

>>69653432
>Democracy, liberalism etc
If we look at Germany, they've only had these values since 1945 (1990 if talking about the east). Still nothing worth building a union on.

Now if you have something like a union between the countries of Latin Europe for example, then you've got some unifying factors to talk about. Language, culture, religion, economic model, all of those are unifying factors.

>>69653667
It did, its just faded over time since WW2

>>69653673
You should examine your own beliefs before you call others satanists, lad.

>>69649415
>photos of people mid speech so it makes them look ugly
ecpi xd

>>69653720
Even latin countries have very little in common.

The original union was the only one that made sense and.it was.purely trade related.

>>69653815
Even French regions have less in common than latin countries if everybody adopts your perception tbqhwyfam

>>69653773
My own beliefs were actually applied and worked for 1200 years, meanwhile your little utopia.managed to destroy all european.countries that are not eastern leeches.

>>69653888
United by conquest.

>>69643894
The European dream died because people tend to wake up when their dreams turn into nightmares.

>>69653815
>Even latin countries have very little in common.
There's more than enough they have in common though, most of it coming from their common, Roman root.

How is having comparable (and to a limited degree mutually understandable) languages, the same religion, comparable economic models, comparable cultural values etc. "very little in common"? Between French and Italian the lexical differences are so small, they could be classified as dialects of the same language.

It makes a lot more sense than a union involving France and fucking Finland.

>>69653896
And what beliefs are those? Islam?
It's definitely not teaching of Jesus.
EU is even a catholic project for crying out loud.

>>69653965
Lel, the driving forces behind the union are judeo-protestant.

>>69649058
This.
Never give up, brothers.

>>69653965
>EU is even a catholic project for crying out loud.
As if we needed more reasons to get rid of that degenerate filth.

>>69653965
>EU is even a catholic project for crying out loud.
No it's not. That one guy drawing inspiration from the Virgin Mary for the EU flag does not mean the EU is a Catholic project. Especially not now that this narrative is no longer told, and we simply learn the idea that the 12 stars resemble something like perfection or harmony or whatever.

The EU involved one Catholic guy who is now quickly being censored out of the narrative.

yeah whatever

If someone wants to leave the EU good for them, but I don't care if the EU collapses. I'm just tired of having: Cold war part 2 pissing contest with Russia.

At least if we work with them we can accomplish international goals, the rest of you barely have the stones to do international campaigns anymore.

>>69653946
Nice

>>69654138
I.wish america would.stop subverting the west with its communists ideas desu

>>69653965
Uh no...

>>69653926
Sooo gr8 a model for Europe.
Also Catalonia, Scotland, Ireland, Poland, Czech, Slovakian and much more were conquered. So gr8.

>>69654333
Idgaf about europe desu

>>69654274
*Germany
Marx and the Frankfurt School alike are German. The biggest surviving Frankfurt School thinker today is Habermas, who has proclaimed the nation-state to be dead (why?) and believes the EU should be founded on this idea of "constitutional patriotism", ie. "I'm proud of my country because of muh values in muh constitution".

This is exactly the same narrative I criticized earlier: making values that are a few decades old (at best, at fucking best, you can argue that in France some of them are 200 years old) and aren't even fully accepted in Eastern Europe. That's supposed to be what unites us: entirely novel ideas that half of us don't accept and the other half might end up rejecting in the next few decades.

If anything, America is doing what makes sense right now:
>Focus on friendly relations with Russia
>Try to compete in China
>Invest in Asian allies
>Pull back from Europe, because its NATO partners aren't pulling their weight
Only Britain and France actually contribute 2% of their annual GDP in their military, as NATO demands. America, with 3% of its annual GDP, goes above and beyond the duty for countries that can barely be bothered to invest 1%.

>>69654138
>to do international campaigns anymore.
Wasn't that the reason you elected Trump? No more failed invasions and grow more isolationist?

>>69653494
>Civil and human rights are bullshit

There is point when they get ridiculous and Western Europe seems to be getting beyond that point

>democracy doesn't work

True, it leads to shortsighted decisions and populism. Keep in mind that democracy in Europe wasn't introduced as a means of empowering the common prole, it was used to get power away from the absolutist monarchs.

>Universal suffrage and liberalism are overrated.

Letting women vote was one of the worst decisions Europe has ever done.

>Europe is of degenerate and gay

The media, academia and the elites are.

>not moral and strong like Russia, Iran, Saudi Arabia or China.

Those are shit. But they get some things right. So yeah, we could actually adopt a thing or two from them.

>>69654386
I dont know in what reality you live but Obama litterally started cold.war 2.0, fucked shit up in asia and got told off by Abe regarding japan-russia relations

>>69654390
The average american who voted for trump doesn't give a fuck about that. They voted for him because he acknowledged that middle and lower class whites exist.

Trump is very open about wanting to destroy ISIS, and not only is the EU under contributing to the effort in an overwhelming manner, but most of you don't even meet your defense budget goals. It's like we're your fucking army for free, it's annoying.

Well, i blame Germany for not finishing the job. If Jewry was wiped out from the planet and Anglos defeated, it would never happened :(

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUoCMQIopUQ

>>69654354
I do peasant :/

>>69643894
And whose fault is that? Yeah, the EU.

>>69654132
It's more than just that one guy, and It's censored out of YOUR narrative because it's more convenient to demonize EU as an enemy than it is to try to improve it. The symbolism of harmony and perfection is associated with the original inspiration as well.

Also it's exactly countries like France that fight against religion being mentioned as a source of values.

>>69654552
USA should extort protection money out of countries that don't meet defence commitments desu

>>69643894
>For the first time in history, the European Union is no longer an ally for the president the United States
About time, can't wait until we stop subsidizing shitholes like portugal

>>69654784
Italian government is controlled by america anyway

>>69653888
>>69653926

that was a good point (since national culture is an imposition too) but also a pragmatic rebuttal lol

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>>69654846
Who isn't

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>>69643894
Dumbass you know your country is poor BECAUSE of the EU right?

Germany lent you money for infrastructure that went right back into THEIR economy and is basically using you as an income stream via a currency that simply doesn't work for your country.

Why are southern euros so deluded as to think the EU is helpful to them? What's with the inferiority complex?

>>69654963
>why are southern euros so deluded as to think the EU is helpful to them
>why are southern euros so deluded as to think the EU is not helpful to them

can non southern euros please reach an agreement already

>>69643894
>Euros assblast their own economies and empires in two world wars of their own design
>start to become irrelevant as nations that were formerly european underlings take the world stage and use europe as just one more battleground for THEIR power struggles
>in their desperate attempt to stay relevant, they band together, i.e "we may individually be backwaters, but together we can at least be a viable market!", and what would become the EU was born
>EU becomes controlled by people who want to use the inherent harm the union does to the various nations of europe for their own ends, begin to accelerate the sickness
>after being convinced of a shared currency, it begins to drag the continent into a death spiral
>after being convinced of shared intra-european borders, it begins to be used to flood their nations with cheap labor and "refugees" who aren't even european and have no desire to ever become so
>when one member nation decides to leave through democracy, democracy becomes demonized

You would rather "bring the people of europe together" than as individual nations try to regain some of what let you rule half the fucking world in the first place. It's sad honestly.

>>69645412
You say "doomed" as if being able to unite would be some sort of desirable fate. Would you also say that the Americas are "doomed" to not be able to unite?

>>69654702
>improve it

The whole concept is wrong, they are trying to unite the ununitable.

>>69654921
America's

>>69654552
>It's like we're your fucking army for free, it's annoying.
You are the army but not for free. That was the trade off for the dollar being the global reserve currency after ww2. In the long run that didn't benefit the average American especially after the neoliberal revolution and the rising of China.
I'm all for Trump demanding more military spending from euros. In a few years we'll see how smug they will be.

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>>69655023
the entire southern continent except for parts of italy has been reduced to a meme existence for the benefit of tourists while you use a currency that guarantees your continued slavery.

Why is it so hard to see? When did southern euros become the biggest pussies on the planet?

>>69654528
>Obama
In 12 days that's a non-issue. Not only is Trump close with Putin, he recently angered the Chinese by visiting Taiwan and speaking kind words about them. All eyes are already on him before even entering office.

why does the European dream seem to mean 'federalised unification'? Sounds like a nightmare to me.

>>69655106
>When did southern euros become the biggest pussies on the planet?
1453

>>69653003
I thought they were winning in the Netherlands?
Although I don't know how the system works so I'll take your word for it

>>69655202
I think you're forgetting some events in Iberia

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>>69655106
Well greeks in about 1453
Spanish when the enlightenment started rolling in and italy when they had some series of unfortunate leaders.

pic related.

>>69655181
Because it's been a socialist centalist dream from the get go and that's all they know. It isn't working? Make it bigger. It is working? Make it bigger.

>>69648507

>The will of the people is the precise opposite of tyranny, you idiot.

then muslim countries and nazi germany are/were paragon of democracy

>>69643894
>For the first time in history, the European Union is no longer an ally for the president the United States, but rather a pesky obstacle that shall be overcome
It's nice to have a prez who's on the same page as the rest of the cunt.

>>69655244
I always think of Spain and Portugal as Western European. But we in America probably group them that way because of the four major colonial powers being located in that most Western "slice" of the continent.

So I'm guessing by "south euro" you mean Spain, Portugal, Greece, and Italy?

>>69655246
>>69655244
>>69655202
glad to see some rational people in this thread.

The EU wouldn't be bad if it wasn't a machine of economic and political oppression, but.. it is.

Just like in Canada, the richer provinces only get richer and the poor stay the same. But we redistribute the wealth because the rich provinces KNOW they are getting a net benefit from the union so they put up with us because it's cheaper for them that way.

>>69649459
Yes yes, let's deliberately become poor so we can have TCS, Accenture, Infosys, and others here exploiting us for being cheap, like they do to pajeets and latinos.

Being cheap labor is never good and devaluating our currency would lead to just that. I'd rather have no jobs than designated shitting jobs.

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>Be EU
>Must take care the burden of useless ungrateful countries like Italy, Portugal, Greece, the balkans, and more poor former commie countries
>Germany keep forcing "progressive" policies
>French keep being "A good EU (reich) boi"
>UK being a cowardice bitch, they out from EU and can't even force a single thing to change EU even though their economy and political power
>Turkey fw

>>69655581
it makes perfect sense that you consider Iberia as Western European first. it makes sense in many ways, historically and culturally

but strictly geographically it's obviously the very Southwestern edge and that's what I thought you had in mind

>>69655617
I don't really understand the EU endgame about southern Europe though. A huge summer resort like you mentioned, an assortment of banana republics? Seems so.

>>69655617
yeah but that's also due to identity and inertia. it's the same reason why inequality exists regionally within countries with much less protestation

rational reasons don't keep you together at the popular level, it's sentimental ones

>>69655736
>Must take care the burden of useless ungrateful countries like Italy, Portugal, Greece, the balkans, and more poor former commie countries
All those countries you mentioned had industries before the EU was formed. Even the communist ones. Now they don't.
But why would a dumbass uneducated cuck like you know that.

>>69655710
>I'd rather have no jobs than designated shitting jobs.
That's been the attitude of my state, Vermont, and our unemployment rate is at 3.6%. The cost of living here is ridiculously high compared to other rural parts of the U.S., but so is the standard of living. Even our smackheads have a decent quality of life.

>>69655173
The whole angering china thing is CNN bullshit, the Chinese government's official statement is that the new Taiwan government is trying to stir shit up and it wont work.

>>69655878
> it's the same reason why inequality exists regionally within countries with much less protestation

But here in Canada it's the same thing except the poor provinces are always getting handouts.

It's not altruistic, it keeps the people happy and increases the longevity of the country.

The cost is worth it as it guarantees political stability and prevents the formation of states that could seriously compete with the rest of Canada with a currency better suited for it.

But latins and greeks are apparently content with status quo.

It won't last. The EU falling apart will be it's own undoing.

>>69656009
if Vermont were part of the EU in the state it's in the USA, it'd be getting trashed by net contributors m8

look at US federal transfers

>>69648507

Free Quebec when?

who /moving to Argentina/ here fellow Europeans?

>>69656009

Well i don't think there's any designated shitting companies in the US, even in rural areas, except the ones that import pajeets to just exploit them there.

For you guys, a low col area salary is around 50k, so this is not even a concern. However, in Spain, it's not widespread but it's also not unheard of to be farmed like pajeets, look what I found with a google search:

http://optimum-web.es/it_outsourcing_en.html
These assholes literally called us pajeets: http://asystem.es/outsourcing-software-development/

Say what you will but this makes me scared because the reason pajeets suck is because they have a lot of this kind of companies that promote shitty engineering, taking shortcuts and lying, and if this was widespread here we'd become the same.

>>69648930
>Russia will be friendly to the US for the first time in decades
More like your president will be fapping to a picture of Dobby the house elf and do as he wants.

>>69656510
dont. dont believe the memes. they're not european lol

those yellow rotten toothed brits still in!? GTFO already.

>>69656640
They are South Cone

>>69656231
>if Vermont were part of the EU in the state it's in the USA
What do you mean by this?

>>69656516
Those assholes are operating in Spain's rural areas as we speak by the way (hence the "price is almost the same as outsourcing / offshoring from India or the Baltic" thing). One website seems old and abandoned but the other actually updated the year in their legal info to 2017 already. I wish they die in a fire.

S-so we can deal with each country separately again? Nice. Finally, some Poland won't veto our projects in Bulgaria. That was retarded.

>>69655989
Wtf man our few industries fled to Romania or Poland thanks to EU.

>>69656795
he means if it was an euro country instead of an US state it'd get cu cked by merkel and the nazis basically. i agree

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>>69649188

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>>69643894
>citizens of the world

>>69645305
America has had the same government since 1776, making it the oldest government still functioning today.

Europeans can't have a government last 20 years.

>>69656950
EU means "European Union" not "Citizens of the world Union" you fat fuck.

>>69656887
My point exactly

>>69657013
And the OP said "citizens of the world", you frog-eating ape

>>69657013
>>69657098
I love /int/

>>69655989
well take example of your country

first your country pounded so much national debt, second your gov, your parlement (political powers), and your people can into one agreement into loosen a bit the debt burden like put more taxes, decrease public service cost, or shit
because of that, your country's debt rank fall so much
walla, no more investment because investor don't want to lose more money, no more money in and out to help the circulation of money

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>>69656894
It's hard to say. If VT were in the EU, we probably wouldn't be in the EU. There's a long-running independent streak here, and if we wouldn't receive a guarantee of fully equal status, we would probably just remain independent.

>>69649967
>erosceptic
I like the way you put that

>>69657168
Well suppose a bunch of sjws voted for a socialist government and they got you into the EU, after which its had to leave. Germany would fuck you up.

>>69646343
The EU is necessary to RESIST globalisation you doofus.

>>69657155
>your people can into one agreement into loosen a bit the debt burden like put more taxes, decrease public service cost
.......*sigh*
Like i said. Don't talk about stuff you're uninformed about.

>>69649535
>No American would ever agree to be part of something that curtailed our sovereignty in such a way
t. posted from the confederate states of america

oh wait ...

>>69656795
my point is that Vermont would be a net spender in the EU if it were in the same state it is in the USA and the net contributors would be shitting on it

but because the USA is a nation, it's a much different reality

>>69657098
So what ? Sounds a bit reddit but nobody complained stop being such a attention-whore faggot with your fat body you already occupy too much space in this world.

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I love you folks.

>>69655833
There is none, don't listen to the leaf about the oppression. It's just that Germans would rather starve to death than devalue their currency.

>>69648507
>Also, fuck the European Union. We don't need anymore continental Empires. Russia, the USA, China, India and Indonesia are enough. If anything, we need more balkanisation.
So I guess for you it's okay because you're part of the US's empire but European nations aren't allowed to do power politics? Fuck off.

>>69657284
>socialist government
One of our senators is Bernie Sanders. Yup.

See below;
>>69657361
What's so different about the EU that would make us so vulnerable? Do you have to let predatory companies set up shop in your cunts?
There's nothing but our state laws stopping a company from New York from expanding here, and I imagine it's easier to do business across state lines than across EU country borders.

>>69657593
it's always a weird argument coming from right-libertarians. so your ideology is going to balkanize (the understimated in many corners of the West) China and the Chinese are going to set up Singapores for you to roleplay in? kek, maybe he's Chinese actually

>>69643894
>Where were you when the European dream died, /int/?

Celebrating it's death with my friends.

>And how long will we have to wait to see it reborn again?

Hopefully never.

>>69654495
>There is point when they get ridiculous and Western Europe seems to be getting beyond that point

You should add the human rights don't actually exist, and are just privileges granted upon you by the state. What's happening now is that, since they're privileges, entitled brats have seized the whole edifice and are using it to force their political beliefs on others without debate.

>>69657640
Vermont gets fiscal transfers from the federal government to keep going, it's a "net spender". do you see many Americans who vehemently state that Vermonters are leeches who need to get out of the USA?

>>69657528
>Burry your head in the sand till everything burns to the ground
It's OK won't be the first or the last time that this has happened.

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>>69655736
>Must take care the burden of useless ungrateful countries like Italy
Yeah right

>>69657759
No, but we're also not taking large bailouts to boost an unnecessarily bloated public sector while unemployment sits at >20%. And our retirement age is the same as other states', which matters in this case, because Medicare and Social Security are the big source of federal spending here. Oh, and we have a lot of federal land with a low population.

>>69657965
>Burry your head in the sand till everything burns to the ground

That's not what I said. Get the fuck out of Euro, work on getting shit going, cut the government sector in half. I'm just saying there is no big conspiracy here to keep you down, it's just Germans being retarded and stubborn as they've always been. You should've gone bankrupt right at the start.

>>69658109
you're still spending more than you're offering. that was my whole point

the reason that it works well in your case is that the USA is a different kind of union. if it were otherwise, some states (especially a lot of southern ones) would be getting the PIGS treatment in the US

>>69658090
haha cuc ks

>>69658090

Return to the lira when?

>EU will collapse within your lifetime

Good time to be alive. Can't wait to see this freedom-hating monstrosity fall apart.

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lel no, the brits are ready to go back and suck that EU cock. If anyone's leaving the EU it's clearly going to be us after you all hung us out to dry these past years.

>>69658247
that's a really cool infographic. I like the way it breaks it down in so many ways that it's hard to be misleading about the actual responses

>>69658247
>non-countries want to federate
>real countries don't
I am not the least bit surprised at this.

>>69645237

Are you implying that we should FORGIVE the Eternal Dane his crimes? Because them fightin' words.

>>69658397
yeah, otherwise everyone would be like "slovakia what" but now it's obvious what's going on

also really interesting about italy and france

>>69657640
Dont know about predatory companies tb h. Admittedly I don't know that much about economy in general, but I do know they go to places with a devalued currency or low salaries.

We happen to be recovering from the recession unlike the greeks, and I'm sure that if it weren't because of that, these assholes would be all over the place. In fact I think there's some in rural areas, like those two I found googling.

To be honest I'd outlaw outsourcing and contracting in general if I could, even within the same country. Intermediator companies literally only focus on exploiting their employees.

>>69649188
Cuck

>>69658561
Slovenia-Germany-Slovakia-Austria are basically a smooth cline but if you just posted the one on the right with no specific response rate, you'd think there was a gulf in response between the former two and the latter two

>>69658561
>also really interesting about italy and france

They're just under the false impression that the EU will give them competent government for a change.

>>69649520

>Other countries manage to do the same without an institution like the EU.

Yes, but we never did, did we? Europe and it's history is literally a clusterfuck of bashing your neighbors skull in for arbitrary reasons... we're kinda like Africa in that regard, just with more sophisticated weapons (which arguably makes it even worse).

Though I suppose war between western European states in the modern age is unlikely, but I'd still argue that without the EU it still would be. Even if it collapses now, the increased unity of the continent will be a legacy not so easily forgotten.

>>69658121
I was referring to the Germans being autistic too.

Greece was a toxic bond dump and now that the banks are safe we owe that money to states. So even with the surplus we're running on now it will never be enough. And no there is no conspiracy. Germans and their satellite states have openly stated their intentions about Greece which are "making them hurt". Ironic coming from people that have gone under debt forgiveness themselves

>>69643894
The EU needs to die.

It doesn't react to change. It's completely out of touch with reality. It's drowning in refugees.

The killing blow was when we let Eastern Europe in.

Hit the reset button and start over with just the Western European nations.

>>69658764
>people are STILL surprised that the EU is nothing more than a German strategy to enact the 4th Reich through economic rather than military warfare
kek

>>69658805

This would be idea, sadly the clusterfuck that is the EU has ruined the prospects for a functional union to ever exist, forever more people will point to it and go "we tried that shit, didn't work, forget it and lets never try again"

>>69658736
You realize that you're posting from a country that has been at peace for two centuries, right?

>>69648507
>India and indonesia
>empires
pick one

>>69643894
>America to the west, Russia to the east, Britain to the north, the Middle East countries to the south - are against its existence.
Great argument for it. And Britain will probably still be a part of it to some degree, if not return fully at some point in the future.

>>69658805
Nah the east needs to be a part of it too. The fewer friends Russia has the better.

>>69658827
Not surprised. Just mentioning some stuff.

>>69658805
This.
Back to the EEC. It's not that hard.

>>69657299
>A multinational group of unelected bureaucrats make what are essentially laws for its member nations
>Not globalism
m8

>>69658764
>making them hurt

Considering your people's and government's attitude it's pretty understandable. You literally ate through your future and now the future is here to collect and you make excuses and cry to high heaven. While Balts took it like man and did it the hard way.

>>69658805
>Eastern Europe

Funny how it's the southern euros that are in trouble even though they've been in the EU since the 80s.

>>69658764
To forgive debt, the indebted must show willingness and ability to change. If Greece's debt would be forgiven today, Greeks would try to borrow themselves into a comfortable lifestyle tomorrow.

>>69643894
>for Daily Express editors.
whyd you read and trust that shittest paper in the country

>>69658924

But for the grace of God, as you very well know.

>>69649764
>Getting called cowboy by random people in a foreign country
I'm going to move to Dublin so I can finally live out my Spike Spiegel fantasy.

The main problem is that EU is now 100% driven by ideology, while ignoring the facts.

Take Greece and the Euro for example. It's clear that leaving the Euro and being able to devalue their currency would greatly benefit Greece (like it has benefitted them many times in the past 200 years). However they will never allow this because if it becomes obvious that leaving the common currency benefits a country others could do the same. And without the Euro to tie countries together their whole Union would be in danger after witnessing that the Brexit vote didn't cause anarchy and hunger in the UK.

Masstricht? Long forgotten.
Dublin III? No, we don't want to execute it right now.
Schengen? Yes keep the borders open even though we can't protect them right now. But in the future we will!

The EU will fail, it's only a matter of time now.

>>69659045
>Let me tell you about your country
What about our bahavior? Up until 2015 Greek govs did exactly what they were told to. After Syriza was elected there was fear of a leftist current rising in Europe. See Podemos in Spain too. Both Syriza and Podemos got BTFO. Syriza is just another token Greek government now.
>You literally ate through your future
Yeah that's why at the beggining of the "bail out" program debt was at 120% of our GDP. Now it's 170%. Debt has risen both as an absolute number and as a GDP percentage.

You were right about one thing though. We should have gone bankrupt in 2010. Now it's too late even for that.

>>69648930
Russia will back stab you again, don't worry about it.

Their government are incapable of doing what they say they will do.

>>69657358
What's your point, Mehmet?

>>69658954
No they don't. When they pay the same for the work done as the west I'll agree.

>>69659045
It's more that you all emigrate to the west, depressing wages.

It's not about who's in a bigger mess now.

>>69659103
>willingness and ability to change
You mean like a 27% drop in GDP, cuts in pensions, wages, spending, budget surplus, etc? All that have already happened you know. Aren't those the desired changes?
And borrow what and from whom? There are no money anymore for that neither will anyone lend Greece right now. So cut the bullshit.

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>>69659634
>cut the bullshit
Indeed.

>>69658483
Only REAL countries take refugee cock up the ass and blame their natives for its problems.

>>69659712
Great. Go for it.

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Good fuck the EU. May its rotten corpse be pissed upon.

Lately they've been trying to ban many types of guns, magazines over 10 rounds and implement more bullshit bureaucratic nonsense towards getting a gun. Even in countries like Switzerland which has the second laxest laws in the world and is safer than EVERY EU country.

FUCK THE EU.

>>69658172
I guess I just don't understand why PIGS let in predatory foreign employers, and I don't get why the contributor cunts don't require PIGS to have a more reasonable economic structure. Why was the reaction to the imposition of austerity measures treated as such an unreasonable condition of receiving a loan? See, that's one thing that confuses me; US states don't loan each other money like EU cunts seem to.

>>69650145
Who ever said sanity was a good thing?

>>69659408
>Greek govs did exactly what they were told to

Which was what? Borrow like there is no tomorrow and spend it on making the government sector bigger? It's not like you were ordered to do that since nobody else did it, atleast not on that scale.

>>69659582
>depressing wages

Equalizing. They are high as fuck anyway.

>>69660704
he's talking post-austerity. which is true though Syriza fucked it up ultimately so eh

>>69660704
See >>69659634

>>69660759
I'm talking everything pre-crisis and also your "but Germoney hasn't paid WW2 reparations"

>>69660879
yeah dude, but the guy was talking post-austerity. I was just clarifying what he meant since otherwise it's just talking past each other

>>69660879
>but Germoney hasn't paid WW2 reparations
That's actually true but it is used as a counter argument. Noone actually sees Germany paying reparations.

>>69661010
>>69660989

i don't know if its true but the way its seen here, greece isnt recovering because most people votes for no austerity and leftist/populist parties in general, which hurts the economy, whereas in spain and italy there are governments that specifically try to improve the economy even if some people hates that

>>69661167
I agree with you actually. the problem is that Syriza is trying to half-ass it but under ND things were going ok for a while

>even if some people hates that

well, let's be fair. austerity hurts already vulnerable people who had a small impact on the economy in the first place the most in a sense so it makes perfect sense that some people would hate it and for very good reasons

>>69661010
They finished paying reparations from WW1 relatively recently. After WW2, the Allies decided that Germans paying reparations could lead to another war so they didn't make them pay any. It could be said that all that money Germans pump into subsididies and donations for other EU countries is reparations.

>>69661267
I think he's aware. debt forgiveness is the point he's trying to make most likely

these conversations always retread the same arguments over and over with people offering the usual ones depending on ideological inclination hah

>>69643894
Honestly fuck Britain, pound already lost a quarter of it's value, and Scotland is about to leave it. Noone in the EU will miss the greedy fuckers

>>69661167
You could say that back in 2015 when Syriza was elected. Now Syriza is just the same as PASOK (center left) or ND (center right). They will actually pass legislation about pensions and loosening work laws. As for financial markers, we run on a budget surplus, unemployment has slightly decreased and development has also risen a bit. So if you consider consider that development we are developing in that perspective.

Polite reminder that literally everything that's wrong with the EU is fault of nation states and national politicians behaving like retards and thinking only about closest elections.

>Economic/currency/debt crisis
Introducing monetary union without fiscal and transfer union, because everyone wanted to have their cake and eat it too.
>Migrant crisis
Open borders without effective agreement on how should external borders be protected and asylum seekers dealt with. Again moral hazard applies where countries best placed to deal with problems have either no incentives to doing so (the migrants don't want to stay anyway so why not just let them through) or are smeared as inhumane fascists for doing it within their means to drum up "good guy points" for western politicians.

>>69661267
>so they didn't make them pay any
Not true

>>69659045
When your highest industry is cheap whores you don't really have a say in other countries economies.

>>69659719
>non-country citizen gets mad
I am not surprised by this either.

>>69659800
That's because US states are not countries.

>>69643894
If the Union is dying, it's only because of itself. It could have been beautiful but they decided to transform it into a US of Europe. The EU is responsible of its own death.

>>69658247
>when we're the only fucks who know we don't know

>>69658247
bravo Poland

>>69662107
This.
The EU really has many good aspects to it yet I still voted out. Why? The short-term economic losses for us are outweighed by long-term sovereignity. The EU commission are explicit in saying they want an ever closer union. This ultimately means the loss of individual cultures that make Europe great.
How can you trust a Europe-wide government that literally allowed Russia to annex Crimea with almost zero repercussions?

>>69649681

North American Union now.

Let Canada run Parliament. Let the USA run Executive and Supreme Court. Let Mexico run .. uh ... erm ...

>>69651105

STFU Heinrich. You don't dominate anymore, got it?

Krauts never learn ...

>>69653494

Lol. Good one.

>>69643894
>Where were you when the European dream died, /int/?

When it stopped being a trade union. We don't even belong to the same race and we have still strong national/ethnic identities. This is why bringing as many immigrants as possible was a priority for the EU to turn Europe in some kind of USA.

>>69664227
>Let Mexico run .. uh ... erm .

Department of Labour.

>>69643894
I'm so glad Portuguese still are leftist.

>>69663284
>allowed Russia to annex Crimea with almost zero repercussions?
You mean except for the sanctions and the asset freezes and the visa bans?

>>69659776
MUH GUNS

>>69643894
God willing, the EU will fall!

>>69659776
I've never seen anybody carrying big guns around

>>69661900
That's funny, Luigi, except we make cars that actually sell.

>>69661657
>Introducing monetary union without fiscal and transfer union, because everyone wanted to have their cake and eat it too.

Yeah, it totally wasn't the fault of those who voted for the thing thinking one will sooner or later necessitate the other. KYS eurocuck.

>>69667177
They enacted more sanctions against themselves than the western world did. The asset freezes and visa bans were tiny little things that the Russians could laugh off.

>>69658247
>Sweden NO

>>69649520
>Other countries manage to do the same without an institution like the EU.
LOL. Just because Europeans were pretty much the only ones who really made an effort in recording their history doesn't mean other regions saw less war than Europe. In fact, the principal reason why Europe could establish dominance over the world was the fact that in the rest of the world people were at each other's throats as much as in Europe, if not more. And Europe capitalized on that.

>>69669224
russians are still in recession, look at their gdp chart

>>69653720

You fags never learn.

Failure flows through your veins.

Enjoy being cucked by Muslims.

>>69643894
>It's over, citizens of the world.
No.

European Union will prevail.

In varietate concordia!

>>69671014

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jo_-KoBiBG0

>>69670028
Because of the sanctions they put on themselves.

>>69671104
unironically best anthem ever

how does the nationalist scum even compete?

>>69671380
25 anthems >1 anthem

>>69654386

These are good values because within tolerance there is room for "voluntary restrictive beliefs" such as Mormons, or libertine beliefs such as nudism/FKK.

But then again I'm American, so I have great faith in freedom.

>>69654552

This. And they could not stand Hillary.

>>69669632
this

however germany's role within europe is to fuck it up over and over again, economically this time

anyone who doesn't want the EU to exist is a literal subhuman that should be exterminated

>>69672374
I don't care if the EU exists as long as we get out.

>>69651172
this i want to be stepped on by a cute german boy

I don't know how people could support the EU

>>69656439
It was put to a vote twice and just fucked our economy over

>>69673338
I dont know how people couldn't support the EU

it brought mostly benefits

free movement
can go work at any EU country
better regulations on food, European food is of highest quality in the world
heavy boost for central European economies

the only really bad thing are economic problems of the southern countries, but lets be honest its mostly their own fault and their reckless economic policies

>>69673338

How do you feel about american states

>>69674309

While ignoring all the draconian aspects of it

>>69674368
Easily we are a union of separate and equal states that all have a say in the government and there are limits on how much the federal government can influence them

>>69674457

>While ignoring all draconian aspects of it

The irony is stunning

>>69674457
>While ignoring all the draconian aspects of it
like ?

>>69674508

I see you are ignoring the 9th amendment

>>69674560
The Lisbon treaty

>>69674591
>The Lisbon treaty
whats wrong about it ?

>>69674309
>free movement
Bringing muslims, slaves and gypsies into our countries.

>can go work at any EU country
Lowering wages and bringing slaves into our countries.

>better regulations on food, European food is of highest quality in the world
We already had food regulations. The difference now is that Eurocrats and bribed foreign politicians want to fuck with our snus and add more sugar in our jam.

>heavy boost for central European economies
Couldn't care less about this.

>>69674668

Everything it allows the EU parliament to supersede the sovereignty of it's member states

>>69674727
>Bringing muslims
its your government not the EU

freedom of movement is between the member states
>slaves and gypsies into our countries.
yeah because they don't contribute to your economies by working in the worst jobs that have to be done for pathetic money
>Lowering wages
t. sweden with a median wage of 2053 euro
>The difference now is that Eurocrats and bribed foreign politicians want to fuck with our snus and add more sugar in our jam.
source on these claims ?
>Couldn't care less about this.
more developed your neighbour is > more money you are getting from trade

you are benefiting from the fact that Poles are getting richer, we are buying more Volvos and Ikea products
>>69674741
EU parliament in reality doesn't have any power over the member states and Orban sperging out only proves that

the most powerful politician in Europe is Merkel - a head of a national state, not Schulz, Juncker or Tusk

no sovereignty is a meme, member states can still do whatever they fuck they want

>>69674983

Merkel is pro EU. That's why the EU parliament doesn't do anything against her.

And they can't do what they want.

>>69675040
and what could it do against her kek? EU has only so much power national politicians are willing to give them and thats not a lot

EU institutions are mostly for regulating policies between member states, they by no means supersede anyone's "sovereignty"

>>69643894
Good riddance. A genocide would be preferable.

>>69676002
Careful what you wish for

>>69657593

Norway is not allowed. Correct.